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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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CCP Frame
C C P
C C P Alliance
6227
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Posted - 2015.04.17 03:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
It is time for CCP Rattati once again and his update on Matchmaking! This time he is explaining what we have changed with this new system and what you guys should expect in the future to be tweaked based on your great feedback. Read on, and throw us a line or two right here after that!
CCP Frame, CCP Community Team
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Boot Booter
Titans of Phoenix
RUST415
1301
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Posted - 2015.04.17 04:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
First!
Sounds good. Haven't played in a few days but a issue now seems to be unequal team sizes / battles with less than 16 v 16 |
Scheneighnay McBob
And the ButtPirates
6060
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Posted - 2015.04.17 04:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sounds awesome.
You see those people who leave the battle as soon as they see there's actual competition? They're ****** now, because the matchmaker believes they're actually good.
Some details can be ignored
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Luis rules 1st
Valor Coalition
62
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Posted - 2015.04.17 04:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
It's good to read that the battles in general are more equal
But tbh, I have to complain about joining battles where there's a tremendous disparity. Such as 12~14 vs 6.
generally I'm not in a team and this is annoying.
And also, since warlords, it was said that we wouldn't join battles that are about to end, but I'm joining more of those battles than ever before. |
The Modern Creature
Incorruptibles
57
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Posted - 2015.04.17 04:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Waiting for Aeon to come here and flip his solid organic waste.
Attention passengers I will be your captain for the evening, I'm sure we won't run into any swarms but just inc- JUMP!!!
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Vell0cet
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2958
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Posted - 2015.04.17 04:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Overall I'm happy with the changes. This was really critical to get figured out if DUST was ever going to do well on another platform with a large influx of new players. I think it still needs fine-tuning, but when matches are full they tend to be better.
I'm curious how this has affected new player retention rates. It's probably too early to have really solid numbers, but I bet the preliminary numbers have gone up significantly. Anyone at CCP willing to share some % improvements over the pre-matchmaker overhaul in the new player retention numbers?
Best PvE idea ever!
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M1tch Rapp
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
168
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Posted - 2015.04.17 04:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Sounds awesome.
You see those people who leave the battle as soon as they see there's actual competition? They're ****** now, because the matchmaker believes they're actually good.
There are Scotty problem causing more deployment issues. I saw it first hand yesterday and afterward I actually got thrown into a battle without even queuing.
My experience overall since the updated matchmaking was deployed proved to me what I've thought all along. There are a LOT of veteran players who don't do much of anything to try to win matches. All along I've seen people on the forums with their violins out for new players, but I wonder how many new players suffer through poor matches because the veteran players on their side are derping around basically farming ISK with no regard for winning matches.
I've found domination to be almost unplayable. If I run to the point in my slow Gal Assault and I'm the first one there, I'll fight to the death and then leave battle rather than waste the limited time I have to play so 15 players can make 150K ISK without being succumbed to the horrors of video game combat.
Stuff to Trade? Check out Jadek's Trading Tool HERE
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hold that
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
762
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Posted - 2015.04.17 04:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
a lot of matches are still 5 v 12, meaning matchmaking is actually worse |
Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5024
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Posted - 2015.04.17 05:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
The matchmaker does indeed seem to be doing it's job. Players leaving matches are still causing issues.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
525
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Posted - 2015.04.17 05:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
 Nice to see this controversial item finally reach a summit. I never believed in a Server's ability to "matchmake" human participants into teams, and I still don't think this will be the wedding cake so many inflexible players keep petitioning forGǪ
But it HAS created an encouraging and sweeping change to the matches.
 You still can't get a crowd of tactically-fogged people to see the same doorways and head for the right Objectives---not without more social or MIC comm initiative from seasoned players----it's up to the more advanced among us to start doing that rather than expecting the Devs to help us any furtherGǪ
 Matchmaking still can't get timid or shell-shocked, (or just plain anti-social) players on your team to come down from those potential redline corners and link up with the few of us who aren't afraid to get shot in a shooting game, and sacrifice for our team in the name of funGǪ
And yes, as posted here already, a portion of the "leave the battle" players are sad to observe. SOME early-leavers are perfectly legitimate in their reasons, and I endorse their decision. But the ones with the "other reasons" for leaving (no need to mention them) only start to imply that they haven't learned the rudimentary "devise an appropriate fit-out and strategy to deal with each difficult team you anticipate you'll be facing" idea that is part of Dust's gameplayGǪ and maybe never ever had an interest in learning it.
If you leave, and leave us 5 players short, I don't mind. My side has often won without you  . You missed out.
It reminds me of the days when Oceania would pit 3-v-2 matches in a big ole' Skirmish map. It can actually be ENORMOUS fun, as long as you are aware of the player-count, and know how to change your strategy in response.
But at least NOW, finally, we can move on to other matters, and "Matchmaking" can become as subtle and low-detectable as Aim-Assist gradually became.
Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne...
No story can have life without writers and publishers.
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deadpool lifetone
D3ATH CARD
RUST415
49
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Posted - 2015.04.17 05:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
im actually starting to like you guys more & more each time lol . the stats you are implying sound right ( k.d.r / w.p / w.l .r / s.p ) lets hope it makes a huge difference . ive notice the match making has been a lot better in the past few days . but still! 10 on 10 battles are a small fracture , but im sure that will be worked out . cheers 07 . |
deadpool lifetone
D3ATH CARD
RUST415
49
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Posted - 2015.04.17 05:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:The matchmaker does indeed seem to be doing it's job. Players leaving matches are still causing issues.
agreed! but blueberries will still be blueberries at the end of the day. smh  hopefully this will put in the right people in matches that really want to fight and not just sit back in the red lines ready to snipe because of fear . |
JIMvc2
Consolidated Dust
901
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Posted - 2015.04.17 05:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
When I played FW yesterday = The matches were 16 vs 16 always while in pubs I would say In my expierence it was 12 vs 13. The lowest I've encountered was 10 vs 10.
Looking forward to this new system. I don't play much but yep.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! Die YOU SHADOW BEING IN THE DARK!!!
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Crazy Cat Lady
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
250
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Posted - 2015.04.17 06:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
[Feedback] - Matchmaking issues late night.
Firstly I support the idea behind matchmaking and the importance of improving the new player experience. However, this new matchmaking is causing MASSIVE issues late at night (from about 0600 UTC to down time).
During this time we are consistently experiencing difficulties:
1. Getting into a public contract- very long wait times that have regularly been up to 1hr or more.
2. Matches that are not full
3. Drastically uneven sides eg. 6 vs 12
This has only happened since the matchmaking changes. We usually run in squads (aprox 4) of high SP/experienced players.
During this time the player base on dust is significantly smaller- is this what is causing the problems? It appears that there may not be enough players online during this time to be able to successfully apply the matchmaking algorithms.
The late night player base is concerned as this change has had a significant impacting our ability to play the game.
Would it be possible to please look into this? Perhaps there may need to be some different matchmaking algorithms applied at this time.
Thanks.
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John Psi
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
Steel Balls Alliance
1520
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Posted - 2015.04.17 06:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dejavu?
Please support fair play!
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
787
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Posted - 2015.04.17 07:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cool |
Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
378
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Posted - 2015.04.17 09:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Crazy Cat Lady wrote:
[Feedback] - Matchmaking issues late night.
Firstly I support the idea behind matchmaking and the importance of improving the new player experience. However, this new matchmaking is causing MASSIVE issues late at night (from about 0600 UTC to down time).
During this time we are consistently experiencing difficulties:
1. Getting into a public contract- very long wait times that have regularly been up to 1hr or more.
2. Matches that are not full
3. Drastically uneven sides eg. 6 vs 12
This has only happened since the matchmaking changes. We usually run in squads (aprox 4) of high SP/experienced players.
During this time the player base on dust is significantly smaller- is this what is causing the problems? It appears that there may not be enough players online during this time to be able to successfully apply the matchmaking algorithms.
The late night player base is concerned as this change has had a significant impacting our ability to play the game.
Would it be possible to please look into this? Perhaps there may need to be some different matchmaking algorithms applied at this time.
Thanks.
Same when you play a bit after downtime. To me the matchmaking is the worst thing that has ever happened to Dust. Games turned from unbalanced fights to no fight at all. The other day I didn't manage to reach 39 kills in 4 battles whereas sometimes I can do that in one, just because there was nothing to kill. The game is boring atm, even complete stomps in FW are funnier than most public games. However I do agree that when the match isn't screwed up it's more balanced.
Also another annoying thing with that matchmaking is that you fight the same people several matches in a row. |
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CCP AquarHEAD
C C P
C C P Alliance
262
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Posted - 2015.04.17 09:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
JIMvc2 wrote:When I played FW yesterday = The matches were 16 vs 16 always while in pubs I would say In my expierence it was 12 vs 13. The lowest I've encountered was 10 vs 10.
Looking forward to this new system. I don't play much but yep.
FW is 16vs16 because it only allows full team, if you encounter 10 or less in pubs it means people are leaving.
a passionate developer
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Wilhelm Klingspor
DUST University
Ivy League
891
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Posted - 2015.04.17 09:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
and there was much rejoycement.
GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ DON'T PANIC GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ
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STYLIE77
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
571
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Posted - 2015.04.17 09:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
For the vets, try to make a balanced match.
However, please fill the matches up as people leave.
For the veterans, we would rather have full matches than perfectly balanced ones.
When people don't leave, I am seeing great fights.
In matches that are not filled back up, boring matches that barely 50 clones are killed on each team.
In matches that ARE refilled as the players leave, a lot of fun.
http://caughtyouflinching.ytmnd.com/
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Raptor Princess
ALLOTEC INC
201
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Posted - 2015.04.17 10:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
The matches are not always 16v16 from the outset. I joined multiple with a squad yesterday where the match was very unbalanced from the word go (16v6 at the end began with 15v7)
Some matches were good, but some were too unbalanced to be fun. |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1006
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Posted - 2015.04.17 10:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
STYLIE77 wrote:For the vets, try to make a balanced match.
However, please fill the matches up as people leave.
For the veterans, we would rather have full matches than perfectly balanced ones.
When people don't leave, I am seeing great fights.
In matches that are not filled back up, boring matches that barely 50 clones are killed on each team.
In matches that ARE refilled as the players leave, a lot of fun.
Vets want full matches more than balanced matches, because half-full matches are boring.
But what about this...
Team spawns in and see's teams are unbalanced. People leave. Match becomes boring.
Balance teams give people more of a reason to stay ,because they feel they have a equal opportunity of winning. People stay. Match is awesome.
TLDR
Balance the matches. |
Jebus McKing
1824
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Posted - 2015.04.17 11:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
If you join a match late your ISK and SP per WP rewards should be increased to encourage people to stay and play. Make leaving the match less profitable than staying.
But we will still see entire squads leaving as long as
- we get Scotty errors which prevent some people of a squad to get deployed
- we get insane frame rate drops on some maps
- we get insane lag issues in some matches
- we get to play the same map more than 3 times in a row
These issues can neither be solved by matchmaking nor by punishing people for leaving.
| GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇ.GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇ |
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8844
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Posted - 2015.04.17 12:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
STYLIE77 wrote:
In matches that ARE refilled as the players leave, a lot of fun.
Perhaps for you, but not much fun (or pay) for the guys who get put into to your half-completed stomp. Even when they fight, their proportionally low time-in-battle and WP will ensure that they get paid pennies for giving all they've got to entertain you and your proto pals.
If you truly want better fights, reduce squad size to 4 and let Scotty work his magic.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Peter Hanther
Kottentale Solutions
104
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Posted - 2015.04.17 14:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Well ELO is generally pretty great, I do have to wonder about its use in the W/L category since some people can be vastly better at some game modes than others. Does it track a seperate w/l for each game mode or just a general average?
How can Kottentale Solutions help you?
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Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
General Tso's Alliance
728
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Posted - 2015.04.17 14:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
There's an e-harmony joke in here somewhere about match making ~(._.~)
The new C.EO. of G.L.O.R.Y,
(~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)
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metiumagic
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
12
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Posted - 2015.04.17 15:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Frame wrote:[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65554/1/combat_rifleman_940.jpg[/img] It is time for CCP Rattati once again and his update on Matchmaking! This time he is explaining what we have changed with this new system and what you guys should expect in the future to be tweaked based on your great feedback. Read on, and throw us a line or two right here after that!
Since when the changes are implemented?
;)
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thehellisgoingon
MONSTER SYNERGY
433
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Posted - 2015.04.17 15:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ohhhhhhh hahaha how nice of frame to post rats ideas. Let's talk about something and not implement it till next year. |
The Dark Cloud
The Rainbow Effect
4457
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Posted - 2015.04.17 15:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
This sounds all nice and fair but it gets all thrown of the window when 50% of the players in the vet bracket quit upon seeing whos on the opposition. In my opinion there needs to be a punishment for people who do "lobbyshopping". If you are not familiar what "lobbyshopping" is Rattati then i shall enlighten you.
-Lobbyshopping
this terms describes the behaviour of leaving and entering new lobbys/matches until the person in question of this is confident to have a "easy match". But because people like to squad up in Dust514 this behaviour spreads onto the full squad. Which means matches will be extremely unbalanced and boring and its not uncommon to see 12vs5 or even worse results.
I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
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Booby Tuesdays
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
1510
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Posted - 2015.04.17 16:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
I too have continued to mainly play FW since I'm tired of being on the team of 5, versus 14-16. I wait 3-5 minutes to be forced to fight with one leg and an arm tied behind my back. No thanks Bruce.
IF YOU CAN READ THIS
YOU DON'T NEED GLASSES
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Aeon Amadi
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
9556
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Posted - 2015.04.17 17:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
STYLIE77 wrote:For the vets, try to make a balanced match.
However, please fill the matches up as people leave.
For the veterans, we would rather have full matches than perfectly balanced ones.
When people don't leave, I am seeing great fights.
In matches that are not filled back up, boring matches that barely 50 clones are killed on each team.
In matches that ARE refilled as the players leave, a lot of fun.
The matches are being filled. With high tier players who get ROFLSTOMPED because the game thinks that 16v5 is somehow fair and players genuinely enjoy joining a match where their MCC already has its shields stripped. |
KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
2848
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Posted - 2015.04.17 17:57:00 -
[32] - Quote
Indeed it is a lot better, though I'm not sure the game itself is more fun now.
With such a small playerbase we seem to end up with more or less the exact same teams fighting eachother game after game, it gets boring really fast.
A positive side of it is seing some people's "true colours", AKA they leave everytime they see some good opposition.
The negative side is, well, lots and lots of very boring battles where we are fighting "the lesser half" of the enemy due to the good squad leaving. So it ends up as a 16 vs 8 stomp, and the 8 people remaining aren't all that interrested in doing much on the right side of the redline.
A sollution could be a reduction of Pub squad size to 4 players, combined with increasing the FW squad size to 8, as added benefit I believe it would make FW more desireable for a lot of people.
You just gotta hand it to the general Dust playerbase though, its on average the most rotten and despicable I've ever seen. "Fair fights you say? We'll have none of that! Let just leave battle and sod off instead."
Spkr4theDead wrote:
Says the guy that was quitting the game because CCP were nerfing fused locus grenades.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8856
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Posted - 2015.04.17 18:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:A sollution could be a reduction of Pub squad size to 4 players, combined with increasing the FW squad size to 8, as added benefit I believe it would make FW more desireable for a lot of people.
100% agree.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Dreis ShadowWeaver
0uter.Heaven
Back and Forth
2776
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Posted - 2015.04.17 18:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
This is good news 
I do have one suggestion though. I've been experiencing very balanced Skirms, and I believe that's because I play it often. The thing is though that I suck at Bush, and most Bushes end in stomps for me. I think that this is because since I kick ass in Skirm, Scotty also thinks I'll kick ass in Bush, which isn't true.
Would it be possible to introduce 3 separate ELO ratings for each of the 3 modes? Because right now, I feel that if I want decent matches, I am basically confined to playing one mode. I'm not saying that Skirm is particularly more balanced than other modes; I'm saying that the ELO rating is skewed when one merc excels in one mode, but is poor in another.
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
I'm a monster
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Raptor Princess
ALLOTEC INC
202
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Posted - 2015.04.17 20:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:This is good news I do have one suggestion though. I've been experiencing very balanced Skirms, and I believe that's because I play it often. The thing is though that I suck at Bush, and most Bushes end in stomps for me. I think that this is because since I kick ass in Skirm, Scotty also thinks I'll kick ass in Bush, which isn't true. Would it be possible to introduce 3 separate ELO ratings for each of the 3 modes? Because right now, I feel that if I want decent matches, I am basically confined to playing one mode. I'm not saying that Skirm is particularly more balanced than other modes; I'm saying that the ELO rating is skewed when one merc excels in one mode, but is poor in another.
I would also like to know if your fw wins/losses are taken into account, as afking in amarr/caldari fw could easily get people's w/l ratio down and put them in lower rates battles at the times gal/min q-syncs are happening.
I keep getting out in matches where the kill feed is 80% standard weapons or lower, and recruits, and doing well, then the next match, I'm roflstomped. It's balancing out quite well today (aside from the matches I'm thrown into with < 50% armour or critical clones) |
BOONE novac
Glitched Connection
0
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Posted - 2015.04.17 21:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
Total bs match making needs to be fixed played 5 pubs (skirmish) today and 4 started me halfway through battle and the other sent me in with 4 ticks left on MCC WTF!! |
QORII BALOGUN
NUBIAN PHOENIX CORP
7
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Posted - 2015.04.17 22:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
metiumagic wrote:CCP Frame wrote:[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65554/1/combat_rifleman_940.jpg[/img] It is time for CCP Rattati once again and his update on Matchmaking! This time he is explaining what we have changed with this new system and what you guys should expect in the future to be tweaked based on your great feedback. Read on, and throw us a line or two right here after that! Since when the changes are implemented? From today or earlier?
They are already in. I biomassed a character and created a new one and I never seen the academy I was confused but I figured it out because Rattati mentioned it somewhere earlier. |
Aeon Amadi
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
9559
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Posted - 2015.04.17 23:03:00 -
[38] - Quote
The Modern Creature wrote:Waiting for Aeon to come here and flip his solid organic waste.
Really, dude..? |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8871
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Posted - 2015.04.17 23:49:00 -
[39] - Quote
In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, the soloist queue needs work. I'm being put into partially completed (often nearly completed) matches more often than not. From a soloist's perspective, Scotty 2.0 was working very well immediately prior to the FW Event. Whatever was changed during last week's FW Event screwed Scotty up, and he has yet to recover.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Booby Tuesdays
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
1511
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Posted - 2015.04.18 02:07:00 -
[40] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, the soloist queue needs work. I'm being put into partially completed (often nearly completed) matches more often than not. From a soloist's perspective, Scotty 2.0 was working very well immediately prior to the FW Event. Whatever was changed during last week's FW Event screwed Scotty up, and he has yet to recover.
This makes me curious. Do PC and FW wins affect your Pub ELO? That's a load of crap if so. I only run squads in PC and FW. I run solo 7/10 times in Pubs...
IF YOU CAN READ THIS
YOU DON'T NEED GLASSES
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XxBlazikenxX
Y.A.M.A.H
797
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Posted - 2015.04.18 02:24:00 -
[41] - Quote
Question: Are skill points a factor?
Terrestrial Combat Officer of Y.A.M.A.H
Recruitment, Free BPOs!
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Alex-ZX
Valor Coalition
315
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Posted - 2015.04.18 05:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
I really have to ask.. Is this matchmaking working as intended?
I have been thrown into horrible games and I do not really know if I'm supposed to carry like 10 blueberries to win a game.
I played like 5 hrs and let me tell you that I didn't feel a balanced game. And do not get me wrong I like to go 50/0 and all that stuff, but I'm telling "balanced games" if for Scotty it is balanced to throw me into a bunch of blueberries that do not know how to defend an objective, blueberries that just make parties at the mcc, and many other blueberries that just leave the game and do not even try to kill or keep an objective. If those things are supposed to happen.. Then I think this post is out of place.
I had some good games but the 80% of the time it was a started game or 6 vs 12
There are many things that have to be addressed. Like effort in the battlefield suits and if your team is helping, because I really want to help the bluedots to win the matches and all that stuff, but seriously do I have to play for at least 5 guys, keep the objectives blue and support my team?
It isn't fair to any side, because some of us that still attacking will be hunted and for those that are hunting us is all about finding 2 or 3 guys around the map. Both sides are fu#### up in many ways.
In any case that this matchmaking is working as intended, then I'll have to leave the blueberries on their own, do not care about the objectives and just kill ppl in the most tryhard ways. It is a shame. How os supposed to be balanced when it is difficult to me go 10/8 in some games and those bluedots 0/12, 0/16. Ccp.you really have to find another way. I believe the old matchmaking was by far better than this one. If you need pictures to proof that it happened just let me know and tomorrow I will be just taking pic after pic showing you how ###### up it is. Not just for me also for those that are just a bunch of newbies.
*Alex's modified ZX-030 HMG
Luis' modified VC-107 CR
Alex's modified VC-107 SMG* Owner of this beasts
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5030
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Posted - 2015.04.18 08:28:00 -
[43] - Quote
The Dark Cloud wrote:This sounds all nice and fair but it gets all thrown of the window when 50% of the players in the vet bracket quit upon seeing whos on the opposition. In my opinion there needs to be a punishment for people who do "lobbyshopping". If you are not familiar what "lobbyshopping" is Rattati then i shall enlighten you.
-Lobbyshopping
this terms describes the behaviour of leaving and entering new lobbys/matches until the person in question of this is confident to have a "easy match". But because people like to squad up in Dust514 this behaviour spreads onto the full squad. Which means matches will be extremely unbalanced and boring and its not uncommon to see 12vs5 or even worse results.
KingBabar wrote:Indeed it is a lot better, though I'm not sure the game itself is more fun now.
With such a small playerbase we seem to end up with more or less the exact same teams fighting eachother game after game, it gets boring really fast.
A positive side of it is seing some people's "true colours", AKA they leave everytime they see some good opposition.
The negative side is, well, lots and lots of very boring battles where we are fighting "the lesser half" of the enemy due to the good squad leaving. So it ends up as a 16 vs 8 stomp, and the 8 people remaining aren't all that interrested in doing much on the right side of the redline.
A sollution could be a reduction of Pub squad size to 4 players, combined with increasing the FW squad size to 8, as added benefit I believe it would make FW more desireable for a lot of people.
You just gotta hand it to the general Dust playerbase though, its on average the most rotten and despicable I've ever seen. "Fair fights you say? We'll have none of that! Let just leave battle and sod off instead."
Both of these are really important points I think. Also good ideas on how to potentially improve the situation.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2165
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 08:38:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jebus McKing wrote:If you join a match late your ISK and SP per WP rewards should be increased to encourage people to stay and play. Make leaving the match less profitable than staying.
But we will still see entire squads leaving as long as
- we get Scotty errors which prevent some people of a squad to get deployed
- we get insane frame rate drops on some maps
- we get insane lag issues in some matches
- we get to play the same map more than 3 times in a row
These issues can neither be solved by matchmaking nor by punishing people for leaving.
Jebus, Dark Cloud, Mr Babar, Adipem, Aeon
Take note of these guys for your tweaks Mr Rattati
There's more to it than just the ELO + match making algos that you've done so far...but I don't think they would be obvious without arriving where we are right now.
I expect as an analyst you know this, but we're just making sure you know that some of us are still having a frustrating time for specific reasons that go beyond the perfect algorithm.
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
2853
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 10:16:00 -
[45] - Quote
Yeah my back is hurting big time.
Yesterday was a pretty bad day. we where 4 Rainbows in squad, all with what I believe to be with extremely high MU scores, the result:
In every game we fight 2 full squads on the opposing team with horrible inept bludots on our own. The 4 of us seems to be meant to carry the other 12, which normally where reduced to 6 by the end of the game.
And yes I was fighting people in about 50/5o enhanced gear and proto, the sort of people that I kill 95% in any sort of "fair" 1vs1. The problem ishowever: In order to actually inflence the battle the 4 of us needs to split up, (we were playing Skirmish) and in most situations we end up fighting 1 vs 4 or 2 vs 6 and so on.
I went positive in terms of KDR every game, but only barely, we lost EVERY SINLE GANE though. Normally ending with the 4 of us on top of the list with good scores and having the usual list of 0-12, 1-16 etc filing up the team.
Fighting 4 semi-good people which are obviously organised and communicative is very hard. In many situations all the bluedots around you die really fast and you are left as "the last man standing" being zerged by semi-scrubs.
The sollution:
(And I am not pretending to understand how exactly the MU system works, b ut this is my take n it)
Lets take myself as an example:
A merc with a 4.8 kdr, 4.6 W/L ratio, 120 k kills and 80ish M SP is not worth the equivalent of 2 dudes with half of those stats. Well maybe we are, but we can't compensate for having 12 of these on the other team while having 4-6 of very good players on hours, when the remaining 12 on our team is more or less completely useless.
In a sense it factually ends up as being a 12 vs 6 situation where the remaining bluedots on each team just aswell could have made a party in the MCC.
The MU curve need to get flatter as it goes upwards. I hope that makes any sense...
Spkr4theDead wrote:
Says the guy that was quitting the game because CCP were nerfing fused locus grenades.
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Flint Beastgood III
GunFall Mobilization
1668
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 11:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Yeah my back is hurting big time.
Yesterday was a pretty bad day. we where 4 Rainbows in squad, all with what I believe to be with extremely high MU scores, the result:
In every game we fight 2 full squads on the opposing team with horrible inept bludots on our own. The 4 of us seems to be meant to carry the other 12, which normally where reduced to 6 by the end of the game.
And yes I was fighting people in about 50/5o enhanced gear and proto, the sort of people that I kill 95% in any sort of "fair" 1vs1. The problem ishowever: In order to actually inflence the battle the 4 of us needs to split up, (we were playing Skirmish) and in most situations we end up fighting 1 vs 4 or 2 vs 6 and so on.
I went positive in terms of KDR every game, but only barely, we lost EVERY SINLE GANE though. Normally ending with the 4 of us on top of the list with good scores and having the usual list of 0-12, 1-16 etc filing up the team.
Fighting 4 semi-good people which are obviously organised and communicative is very hard. In many situations all the bluedots around you die really fast and you are left as "the last man standing" being zerged by semi-scrubs.
The sollution:
(And I am not pretending to understand how exactly the MU system works, b ut this is my take n it)
Lets take myself as an example:
A merc with a 4.8 kdr, 4.6 W/L ratio, 120 k kills and 80ish M SP is not worth the equivalent of 2 dudes with half of those stats. Well maybe we are, but we can't compensate for having 12 of these on the other team while having 4-6 of very good players on hours, when the remaining 12 on our team is more or less completely useless.
In a sense it factually ends up as being a 12 vs 6 situation where the remaining bluedots on each team just aswell could have made a party in the MCC.
The MU curve need to get flatter as it goes upwards. I hope that makes any sense...
Very good points. This has been my experience in the last week as well (a few decent players carrying a whole team), although the first week of the new matchmaking saw me having a LOT more close battles than before. The "further tweaks" seem to have ruined it somewhat.
Originally I thought maybe vets were bringing lesser players in with them in squads but then after studying teams I realised most of the poor players on my team going 1/10, 0/13 etc, were running solo so that theory was thrown out the window.
'LR4-Trading' Protester
|
ROTFL
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
44
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 14:19:00 -
[47] - Quote
if a person leaves a match, make it so they can only rejoin the same match....... The train match on repeat will teach them!
Knowing is half the battle! The other half involves guns! GI JOE!
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Shiyou Hidiyoshi
Ancient Exiles.
1377
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 16:20:00 -
[48] - Quote
How to reduce the amount of people leaving battle.
Remove the leaderboard showing both teams, only show it when the battle ends.
Many leave because they do not want to fight whoever is on the opposite side, they want to see all NPC corps not squads of corps. If they do not know who they are fighting, they will hopefully not leave asap. Some will as soon as they see the killfeed for a minute and notice which group of people they are fighting however.
"I don't always lock threads but when I do, I vigorously masturbat afterwards." - CCP LockingBro
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Jaed D'jaegweir
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 16:50:00 -
[49] - Quote
wouldn't one have to be playing the game to get matchmaking,, tons of errors today no way to connect keeps getting kicked by server
"We do not live in a world of reality. We live in a world of perceptions." -Gerald Simmons
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8913
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 17:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
Shiyou Hidiyoshi wrote:How to reduce the amount of people leaving battle.
Remove the leaderboard showing both teams, only show it when the battle ends.
Many leave because they do not want to fight whoever is on the opposite side, they want to see all NPC corps not squads of corps. If they do not know who they are fighting, they will hopefully not leave asap. Some will as soon as they see the killfeed for a minute and notice which group of people they are fighting however.
Killfeed Reads:
Kazuika Sniper - Viziam Scrambler Rifle - Unlucky Blueberry
Blueberry has left the battle
Blueberry has left the battle
Blueberry has left the battle
Blueberry has left the battle
Blueberry has left the battle
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Forced Death
Corrosive Synergy
Rise Of Legion.
575
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 17:50:00 -
[51] - Quote
Yeah! Stop putting me up against Fatal Absolution and 0uter.Heaven!
STD Active Scanner with Scan Profile of 46db too OP
|
FSTNM SCDNM
Die Valkyrja
General Tso's Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 19:20:00 -
[52] - Quote
Finally? |
Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4353
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 19:27:00 -
[53] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
Reduce squad size to 4, such that 6-man 500M SP stompsquads are rendered non-existent and 4-man 300M squads are always checked by like type. If there are big names on one side, more often than not there will be big names on the other. If players trust that they're in for a fair fight, they'll will be more likely to stick around even when they see big names in the killfeed or roster.
It does seem like a squad size of 4 would promote more dynamic and balanced matches.
CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
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Dreis Shadowweaver
0uter.Heaven
Back and Forth
2828
|
Posted - 2015.04.18 19:44:00 -
[54] - Quote
Forced Death wrote:Yeah! Stop putting me up against Fatal Absolution and 0uter.Heaven!
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
Day 2/30 exclusively Minja
|
Forced Death
Corrosive Synergy
Rise Of Legion.
601
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 00:48:00 -
[55] - Quote
Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:Forced Death wrote:Yeah! Stop putting me up against Fatal Absolution and 0uter.Heaven!
Aye, mister corp jumper (TRSAX, RND) I'll take you on anyday in my Kaalakioata Tactical HAV in the redline
STD Active Scanner with Scan Profile of 46db too OP
|
Dreis ShadowWeaver
0uter.Heaven
Back and Forth
2829
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 03:59:00 -
[56] - Quote
Forced Death wrote:Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:Forced Death wrote:Yeah! Stop putting me up against Fatal Absolution and 0uter.Heaven! Aye, mister corp jumper (TRSAX, RND) I'll take you on anyday in my Kaalakioata Tactical HAV in the redline
I am a victim of circumstance 
Both TR and NF died 
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
Day 2/30 exclusively Minja
|
The KTM DuKe
Dead Man's Game
124
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 09:13:00 -
[57] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Yeah my back is hurting big time.
Yesterday was a pretty bad day. we where 4 Rainbows in squad, all with what I believe to be with extremely high MU scores, the result:
In every game we fight 2 full squads on the opposing team with horrible inept bludots on our own. The 4 of us seems to be meant to carry the other 12, which normally where reduced to 6 by the end of the game.
And yes I was fighting people in about 50/5o enhanced gear and proto, the sort of people that I kill 95% in any sort of "fair" 1vs1. The problem ishowever: In order to actually inflence the battle the 4 of us needs to split up, (we were playing Skirmish) and in most situations we end up fighting 1 vs 4 or 2 vs 6 and so on.
I went positive in terms of KDR every game, but only barely, we lost EVERY SINLE GANE though. Normally ending with the 4 of us on top of the list with good scores and having the usual list of 0-12, 1-16 etc filing up the team.
Fighting 4 semi-good people which are obviously organised and communicative is very hard. In many situations all the bluedots around you die really fast and you are left as "the last man standing" being zerged by semi-scrubs.
The sollution:
(And I am not pretending to understand how exactly the MU system works, b ut this is my take n it)
Lets take myself as an example:
A merc with a 4.8 kdr, 4.6 W/L ratio, 120 k kills and 80ish M SP is not worth the equivalent of 2 dudes with half of those stats. Well maybe we are, but we can't compensate for having 12 of these on the other team while having 4-6 of very good players on hours, when the remaining 12 on our team is more or less completely useless.
In a sense it factually ends up as being a 12 vs 6 situation where the remaining bluedots on each team just aswell could have made a party in the MCC.
The MU curve need to get flatter as it goes upwards. I hope that makes any sense... you have listed things that always happened when you run a non full/non full proto squad, but nothing new to me, when i run a 2-3 man squad that happens since open beta.
=ƒæèDMG Director=ƒæè =ƒÖî=ƒÖîAlt of H0riz0n Unlimit=ƒÖî=ƒÖî. Getting hate mails from alliance all day long=ƒÿÄ=ƒÿÄ
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Alaika Arbosa
Minmatar Republic
2501
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 13:35:00 -
[58] - Quote
I had a couple of fairly balanced matches last night. They were both losses but neither of them were out and out stomps. They were both Ambushes, both were <10 clones difference in the end. I tried loading a Dom afterwards and I got the LCoD midway through the match.
IDK if it was Dust taking a **** on me or if it was my internet, they seemed to happen simultaneously. Either way I went to bed.
Losses or not, I enjoyed the matches I got to play last night.
GG Luk.
We the pc players make up a huge majority of active players. --Roman837
^^ROFLMAO
OMG I need to catch my breath now..
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CLOX Von Darian
Von Darian Executive Actions Group
2
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 14:53:00 -
[59] - Quote
I have a few questions I am hoping someone can clarify for me.
I've had a couple of characters for about a year and at least with this one I've been proto stomped way too many times. My K/D/R is something like 0.19 and over 4800 deaths. OK so I'm not someone that has a bunch of time to master FPS games, but I really like this one and held my own on other PC FPS games in the past. What I've found is even with the new matchmaking system I'm still getting proto stomped, and yes it is very frustrating.
I even created a new character thinking that with the new one I'd go up against people that I could actually compete with, but I keep getting knocked out with Experimental and Advanced stuff even though he is running the starter suites.
I am seriously considering dropping all my current characters and starting completely over.
Will that pit me up against other players that are more close to my actual skill?
Will the time I've hung around actually hurt me if I start over? Is it hurting me now?
I know I'll loose a huge amount of hard earned skill points, ISK, and a bunch of items. Is it better to stick it out and hope I can be competitive whenever I can run the same suites and equipment?
I also hate it when the team I'm on does not try to win! I don't normally leave battles, but I have at least once when I just could not compete at all.
Death is but a Painful Moment compared to Immortality
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8952
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 15:57:00 -
[60] - Quote
CLOX Von Darian wrote:I have a few questions I am hoping someone can clarify for me.
I've had a couple of characters for about a year and at least with this one I've been proto stomped way too many times. My K/D/R is something like 0.19 and over 4800 deaths. OK so I'm not someone that has a bunch of time to master FPS games, but I really like this one and held my own on other PC FPS games in the past. What I've found is even with the new matchmaking system I'm still getting proto stomped, and yes it is very frustrating.
I even created a new character thinking that with the new one I'd go up against people that I could actually compete with, but I keep getting knocked out with Experimental and Advanced stuff even though he is running the starter suites.
I am seriously considering dropping all my current characters and starting completely over.
Will that pit me up against other players that are more close to my actual skill?
Will the time I've hung around actually hurt me if I start over? Is it hurting me now?
I know I'll loose a huge amount of hard earned skill points, ISK, and a bunch of items. Is it better to stick it out and hope I can be competitive whenever I can run the same suites and equipment?
I also hate it when the team I'm on does not try to win! I don't normally leave battles, but I have at least once when I just could not compete at all.
Whatever you do, don't nuke your current mercs. If you need to relearn the ropes, use another PSN account so your main can continue to accumulate passive SP while you do so. Pretty soon you'll be able to transfer gear between your mercs.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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The KTM DuKe
Dead Man's Game
128
|
Posted - 2015.04.19 17:13:00 -
[61] - Quote
Why am i fighting only japaneses? 3 games today, mottinai japan in all of them and wasnt the same squad and i was queyng on EU server
=ƒæèDMG Director=ƒæè =ƒÖî=ƒÖîAlt of H0riz0n Unlimit=ƒÖî=ƒÖî. Getting hate mails from alliance all day long=ƒÿÄ=ƒÿÄ
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
799
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 02:56:00 -
[62] - Quote
I'll be honest. Were it me, I'd take away the *leave match* option for a month and see how things go.. |
NIETZCHES OVERMAN
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
118
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 12:28:00 -
[63] - Quote
CCP AquarHEAD wrote:JIMvc2 wrote:When I played FW yesterday = The matches were 16 vs 16 always while in pubs I would say In my expierence it was 12 vs 13. The lowest I've encountered was 10 vs 10.
Looking forward to this new system. I don't play much but yep. FW is 16vs16 because it only allows full team, if you encounter 10 or less in pubs it means people are leaving.
My experience with new matchmaking is as follows. Enter a battle that is 14 v 5.... Enter a battle with less than 10 ticks left on the MCC. Que for a battle get instant Scotty, reque and get the same result several times, finally give up and try FW, while searching for FW I get pulled into the pub match im no longer searching for. After being pulled into said match I am kicked out after only 10 seconds to find my self still searching SOMEHOW for the FW battle from before.
The worst part is definitely the partial games. My main is nearly 100 mil sp, it seems people leave alot at this level. We need some mechanic to encourage not leaving. Also when I get a good match it seems to always be the same map..... |
NIETZCHES OVERMAN
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
118
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 12:30:00 -
[64] - Quote
The KTM DuKe wrote:Why am i fighting only japaneses? 3 games today, mottinai japan in all of them and wasnt the same squad and i was queyng on EU server
Only tryhard japs that suck use EU server. |
Raptor Princess
ALLOTEC INC
211
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 12:38:00 -
[65] - Quote
The KTM DuKe wrote:Why am i fighting only japaneses? 3 games today, mottinai japan in all of them and wasnt the same squad and i was queyng on EU server
I keep getting dust brasil and carne con papas on eu server. At least some Japanese players would mix things up a bit xD |
NIETZCHES OVERMAN
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
118
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 12:54:00 -
[66] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Shiyou Hidiyoshi wrote:How to reduce the amount of people leaving battle.
Remove the leaderboard showing both teams, only show it when the battle ends.
Many leave because they do not want to fight whoever is on the opposite side, they want to see all NPC corps not squads of corps. If they do not know who they are fighting, they will hopefully not leave asap. Some will as soon as they see the killfeed for a minute and notice which group of people they are fighting however. Killfeed Reads: Kaizuka Sniper - Viziam Scrambler Rifle - Unlucky BlueberryBlueberry has left the battle
Blueberry has left the battle
Blueberry has left the battle
Blueberry has left the battle
Blueberry has left the battleBlueberries who are unfamiliar with the names of stompers will leave when they see other blueberries leaving.
Let's say Kaizuka Sniper grew a pair, dropped the 500M SP stompsquad w/GalLogi scans, and queued solo or in a small squad. Under your system, the above scenario would still happen. Without access to a leaderboard, folks would just assume that a player like Kaizuka who typically runs w/stompsquad will always be running w/stompsquad, even when he isn't. Further, without access to a leaderboard, players who'd check to see if big names are on both sides would no longer be able to do so, so they might leave what would've otherwise been a good fight.
Better idea: Reduce squad size to 4, such that 6-man 500M SP stompsquads are rendered non-existent and 4-man 300M squads are always checked by like type. If there are big names on one side, more often than not there will be big names on the other. If players trust that they're in for a fair fight, they'll will be more likely to stick around even when they see big names in the killfeed or roster. Not to say this wouldnt help.... But do we really want to reduce the social "potential" of the game by 1/3 to fix this issue? The squads and social activity of this game are what give it life it would not carry on its own.
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Luk Manag
of Terror
TRE GAFFEL
753
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 13:53:00 -
[67] - Quote
It seems to work pretty well when everyone is solo. I've had lots of matches where the lead switches several times, and it comes down to 1 or 2 clones...usually as players switch between prototype and APEX gear.
If we increased team size to 48 or 64, 6 man squads would work well.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8990
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 15:35:00 -
[68] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:NIETZCHES OVERMAN wrote:
Better idea:
Reduce squad size to 4, such that 6-man 500M SP stompsquads are rendered non-existent and 4-man 300M squads are always checked by like type. If there are big names on one side, more often than not there will be big names on the other. If players trust that they're in for a fair fight, they'll will be more likely to stick around even when they see big names in the killfeed or roster.
Not to say this wouldnt help.... But do we really want to reduce the social "potential" of the game by 1/3 to fix this issue? The squads and social activity of this game are what give it life it would not carry on its own.
Whiskey Alpha's awesome video comes to mind, and I couldn't agree more. Dust's social potential is huge. The 4-man squad is a quick fix for a struggling Scotty and a frustrated playerbase. A more elegant solution could potentially be found in a progressive teamplay scale. On one end of the scale, we'd have Ambush and on the other Raids and PC ...
Ambush would be converted to a soloist queue with significant emphasis placed on teamwork. The lack of pre-made squads prevents stompathons, social elements (link above) tempt soloists to interact with one another, and new players quickly come to appreciate the power of squad play.
Next along the teamplay scale, we find a consolidated queue which rotates Domination, 3-pt Skirmish and Acquisition; here 4-man squads coordinate efforts to dominate smaller maps against like-type opposition; the pub training wheels are still on so-to-speak in that Scotty makes every possible effort to see that both sides are well balanced.
Next along the scale, we find the larger, 5-pt maps of Factional Warfare. A squad of 4 is required to queue, and squads of up to 8 are supported. Tough fights, high stakes/pay and unique loot attract heavy hitters, and FW is home the very best in teamplay and tactics observed outside of PC.
Finally we have PC and Raids. The ultimate. The end game.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2196
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 17:10:00 -
[69] - Quote
NIETZCHES OVERMAN wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
Let's say Kaizuka Sniper grew a pair, dropped the 500M SP stompsquad w/GalLogi scans, and queued solo or in a small squad. Under your system, the above scenario would still happen. Without access to a leaderboard, folks would just assume that a player like Kaizuka who typically runs w/stompsquad will always be running w/stompsquad, even when he isn't. Further, without access to a leaderboard, players who'd check to see if big names are on both sides would no longer be able to do so, so they might leave what would've otherwise been a good fight.
Better idea:
Reduce squad size to 4, such that 6-man 500M SP stompsquads are rendered non-existent and 4-man 300M squads are always checked by like type. If there are big names on one side, more often than not there will be big names on the other. If players trust that they're in for a fair fight, they'll will be more likely to stick around even when they see big names in the killfeed or roster. Not to say this wouldnt help.... But do we really want to reduce the social "potential" of the game by 1/3 to fix this issue? The squads and social activity of this game are what give it life it would not carry on its own.
I would suggest the social potential is reduced already by the existing problems. If we could make games more balanced, full, and reduce queuing times, then in theory the player base could increase and be more active, and then squad sizes could be increased at that point.
However, the ideas presented above suggest a variation in game modes and squad sizes would actually mean we find a better overall solution, and there is always a 4-merc squad size for certain modes. |
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