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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Edgar Reinhart
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
90
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Posted - 2015.04.14 09:17:00 -
[31] - Quote
As someone who is (through choice admittedly) still in starter fits and who enjoys skirmish I'm not sure I'd fully appreciate this. As other people have said having to play FW to plat skirmish might take the fun out of it for me. I've been around since before the matchmaking improved and I do enjoy the challenge but I have been enjoying the more relaxed feel of the pubs I've been in recently.
I am also not a particular fan of ambush so rarely run it leaving me with limited choices for casual play.
However I'd also not have a problem with the suggestion above where you remove the 5 point skirmish from pubs and keep that as the 'total war' style game mode in PC and FW but keeping the smaller 3 point battles in public. |
Georgia Xavier
Y.A.M.A.H
275
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Posted - 2015.04.14 09:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
I don't mind this at all. Isk AND lp sounds like a pleasant deal to me
These god damned duct tape warriors got rust all over my armor!
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LOOKMOM NOHANDS
501
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Posted - 2015.04.14 09:41:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Lost me at "WP Threshold".
Decline until that bit is taken out. so you like fighting 8 MCC campers with no wp, no kills, no deaths
Just because they ran in and grabbed a hack and killed someone before returning to the MCC to camp does not make them anything other than MCC campers at the end of the day.
FW has more issues with people AFKing after they have lost a suit or two than anything.
What we need is REAL incentive to play for factions and win.
Things like:
Make ISK rewards based solely on WP. Isk destroyed goes into the pool and is divided based on WP just like pubs except there is ZERO passive ISK.
Give bonus LP based on WP. 1 LP per 5 - 10 WP may be the right area but it is hard to say.
Make winning for a faction give you a high probability of officer gear. 1 officer suit or weapon every 10 victories as an average would seriously encourage people to win.
Rewarding activity will always be far more effective that attempting to punish inactivity. People will always skate by that punishment with an absolute minimum whenever they can.
As far as the idea of trying to push newbies into FW all I can do is say NO as loudly as possible. A friendly fire environment that has become built around Q syncs does not need more randoms thrown into the mix. Specially when those guys have little idea what is going on.
Adding faction sections to the squad finder would advertise it to newbies while giving people extra chance to join with a squad. I know it is probably not possible but listing the average standing of the squads with the faction they are open too would be amazing.
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Daddrobit
You Can Call Me Daddy
1401
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Posted - 2015.04.14 10:42:00 -
[34] - Quote
I'd have to disagree actually. To many social problems. Friends and corpmates -forced- into fighting each other just because they both love Skirmish and don't have an alternative outside of PC but have different opinions on the usefulness of the others desired LP equipment and guns is not something I can get behind. It's not even like an awkward deployment where you see a buddy on the other side where you think, "I'll squad him after this match," it's guaranteed conflict.
O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
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Jebus McKing
1807
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Posted - 2015.04.14 10:45:00 -
[35] - Quote
I like the idea but the problem is that FW is not available whenever you feel like playing. For people in Europe FW usually only is available late at night. So making Skirmish FW only right now would most likely just kill the gamemode, I guess.
Before we do something as drastic as this we first have to make FW more attractive.
- Losing is frustrating -
Losing a FW match is frustrating because you hardly get paid and you don't even increase your standing.
LP rewards have to be tied to WPs for FW matches just as ISK rewards are tied to WPs for pubmatches.
Standing with a faction has to increase even if you lose a match. It should not increase just as much as it does for a victory but still enough to make you feel you are progressing.
- ISK rewards for FW -
FW should pay enough ISK that if you want to do nothing but FW you can sustain yourself by buying your gear from the LP store without playing pubmatches for ISK.
- Increasing ISK reward for FW mercenaries -
Would it be possible to increase ISK payouts based on the number of factions you queued up to fight for? Up to the point where queuing up for all four factions results in ISK rewards being the same as for pubmatches.
(At the cost of lower LP reward and less standing increase maybe?)
This way people who want to play Skirmish but don't care for the specific faction they are playing for could be used to fill up matches. For these people there would hardly be a difference in playing pubmatch Skirmish or FW Skirmish.
- Joining the militia -
(This is more of a long term goal rather than a quick fix.)
When you are playing FW in DUST you still don't have the feeling that your actions really do influence the outcome of FW in New Eden.
There has to be a way for DUST players to join the militias and easier cooperate with EVE FW players.
This should go as far as allowing DUST FW corps to launch attacks on specific districts of their choice so that there could be coordinated joint forces operations with EVE and DUST players.
| GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇ.GÇÇGÇÇGÇÇ |
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Lightning35 Delta514
48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE
254
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Posted - 2015.04.14 11:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
If I will be able to gain ISK in FW, I'm in. That's the only reason I stopped awhile ago, when lp was introduced.
48th Special Operations Force.
Twitter- @48SOF
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John Psi
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
Steel Balls Alliance
1516
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Posted - 2015.04.14 11:14:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
What if Skirmish, as the most tactical game mode becomes FW only.
Great idea, please do not forget:
1. Disable AIM ASSIST from hip.
2. Enable strafing penalty.
3. Fix RE's, as promised 2014.12.17
4. Tidy Scouts, light combat unit capable of rapid and covert movement, should not have the ability to carry a weapon, comparable in strength to the other units.
Otherwise, you just create a branch of an existing arcade ugliness.
Thank You.
Please support fair play!
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
534
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Posted - 2015.04.14 11:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
The biggest problem I can see is with the daily missions, hack 14 points is going to be a nightmare with no piub skirmishes
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
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Aeon Amadi
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
9504
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Posted - 2015.04.14 11:48:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Lost me at "WP Threshold".
Decline until that bit is taken out. so you like fighting 8 MCC campers with no wp, no kills, no deaths
I like not being screwed out of rewards when I get my hind quarters handed to me on an Aurum platter in a total stomp.
You're not going to stop people from AFKing with WP Threshold. Run logi, drop a few links/hives, die once, AFK the rest of the match. Collect bacon.
Are you being Angry or Assertive?
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Poultryge1st
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
108
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Posted - 2015.04.14 11:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
I like the idea, and would support it. I will say this, though. If you add isk and team deploy to FW I think it would also have the desired affect you are looking for. Without having to remove a game mode from the regular que.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2562
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Posted - 2015.04.14 12:07:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Dear players,
I have been mulling and considering an idea passed on to me. So bear with me for a second and read it all before jumping to conclusions.
What if Skirmish, as the most tactical game mode becomes FW only.
Players that want to play Skirmish will migrate over there, which in turn will make queuing shorter and more attractive.
Domination, Ambush and maybe another Game mode will be in the Public Contracts, thematically "smaller affairs" which makes sense. Skirmish to me is taking over a district, for your own in PC or for a Faction in FW.
To make the transition easier, we would add ISK rewards to FW so players can make LP and ISK at the same time. Solid ISK rewards to make it a closer match between PC and FW.
To get rid of the AFKing, as obnoxious as it is, we would add a WP threshold to FW for all rewards.
New players no longer get thrown into a 5 point skirmish, which is always a disorienting experience.
Please discuss.
Other things that are more difficult to do
Team Deploy
Locking to Faction
I understand where you're going with this kind of... but I am in no way fond of domination or ambush in public contracts, they are by far my least played gamemodes (way, way too easy to take losses and not be able to recoup them in a match). Especially because I also really enjoy using vehicles and in those matches I either no longer am able to call out vehicles (ambush) or fights are all concentrated in area's that I cannot access or if I can access them, because *everyone* wants to be there, the chances of me encountering incredibly dangerous amounts of av quickly is unbelievable.
Even when I choose to play infantry roles, I prefer to play skirmish as I enjoy the flow to its matches and that it can be relatively tactical, especially with small 1-3 man squads (and a decent chunk of people I enjoy playing skirm with, fight for drastically different factions in FW which would overall be harmful to interpersonal player experiences).
This also doesn't even begin to cover the issues with facwar as a game-mode, where players have no agency over where they're deploying and the fact that it has zero matchmaking. I was finally starting to be able to enjoy public contracts because they became much more balanced. When I queue solo or with small squads into facwar we run into the biggest horseshit ever with q-syncing, team-stacking and other things that basically can be summed up with "Players are being encouraged to cheat because it's exceptionally rewarding".
I want skirmish to stay as a regular gamemode. There are a lot of problems that must be fixed with faction warfare before it could even be considered a standalone game-mode.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Haerr
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
2729
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Posted - 2015.04.14 12:26:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ambush & Ambush OMS = Solo queue (no squads)
Domination & Acquisition = Squad queue
Skirmish = FW & PC
Plus putting Acquisition under the Domination tag, just like Ambush OMS is under the Ambush tag?
Plus reducing squad size to 4 to ease team building for Scotty?
Sounds like it would help out matchmaking and make FW more popular, a win-win by any account. Good idea. +1 |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
9155
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 12:28:00 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Dear players,
I have been mulling and considering an idea passed on to me. So bear with me for a second and read it all before jumping to conclusions.
What if Skirmish, as the most tactical game mode becomes FW only.
Players that want to play Skirmish will migrate over there, which in turn will make queuing shorter and more attractive.
Domination, Ambush and maybe another Game mode will be in the Public Contracts, thematically "smaller affairs" which makes sense. Skirmish to me is taking over a district, for your own in PC or for a Faction in FW.
To make the transition easier, we would add ISK rewards to FW so players can make LP and ISK at the same time. Solid ISK rewards to make it a closer match between PC and FW.
To get rid of the AFKing, as obnoxious as it is, we would add a WP threshold to FW for all rewards.
New players no longer get thrown into a 5 point skirmish, which is always a disorienting experience.
Please discuss. I think this might drive players to FW, which is great. Make the ISK rewards good enough and I probably won't run public contracts very often at all.
WP threshold is a must. AFK'ing is a real problem in FW. In fact, is it possible to raise the WP threshold?
Also, can you please look into a small amount of standing being awarded to the losers of FW? +10 or +15 is all that is necessary.
@Ripley_Riley
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Fleen Costell'o
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
Steel Balls Alliance
587
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 12:43:00 -
[44] - Quote
Good idea, this is really cool. I am waiting battle 16 only Gallente suits, gear and vehicle VS 16 only Caldari suits, gear and vehicle, Gallente tactics VS Caldari tactics. Need more role play in FW. I think there has to be an opportunity to group of players to choose the region for attack and at capture/deduction of territories by fraction to receive more points of loyalty or other types of encouragement. There is a wish to feel really that it everything influences the general Universe of EVE.
BUGS514 Find all. I love ksu123 )
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Brush Master
Onslaught Inc
1500
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Posted - 2015.04.14 12:43:00 -
[45] - Quote
From a vehicle perspective, skirmish is the only game mode that makes much sense to play in do to other game modes have maps that are usually too small/confined, keep that in mind.
Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ?
True Logi. Flying DS from the start.
@dustreports
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Racro 01 Arifistan
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
528
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 12:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
public contract skirmish should be 3 point skirm maps as this isn't too disorientating. skirmish is the only gamemode I like/love.\
fw skirmish should consist soley of 5 point......maybe introduce (re-introduce for us beta and e3 build players) 6 point and even if possible 7 point maps.
fw battles should hand out at least 80% of the public skirm isk income (80% due to also accuring LP) change base lp payout to a base LP + 15% of total wp. this means the more active players....or players that want to make a difference get rewared for fighting for their faction..... also increase SP gain by say 3-5% (this is fw **** matters and should reward better...slightly..over pub contracts)
equation would look like this,
battle LP + faction rank x faction booster + loyalty rank + 15% wp converted = LP overallpayout.
this woulod make it eaiser to accurie LP to buy the higher end lp items.....looking at you lp apex suits. hence more players would have an incentive to play fw everynow and then.
while making fw changes.... at least give the loseing team +30 fw rank that way you still get to increase your rank even if your team loses.
Elite Gallenten Soldier
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Peter Hanther
Kottentale Solutions
98
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Posted - 2015.04.14 13:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
making Skirmish FW only removes the benefit we got from the wonderful matchmaking update...
How can Kottentale Solutions help you?
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Isa Lucifer
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
187
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Posted - 2015.04.14 14:10:00 -
[48] - Quote
As the rest have said, bad idea.
Amarr Victor
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University
Ivy League
727
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Posted - 2015.04.14 14:17:00 -
[49] - Quote
Haerr wrote:Ambush & Ambush OMS = Solo queue (no squads)
Domination & Acquisition = Squad queue
Skirmish = FW & PC
Plus putting Acquisition under the Domination tag, just like Ambush OMS is under the Ambush tag?
Plus reducing squad size to 4 to ease team building for Scotty?
Sounds like it would help out matchmaking and make FW more popular, a win-win by any account. Good idea. +1
Good point.
Let's not forget Acquisition, even if we don't have it yet.
In theory I am for the idea with Skirmish only in FW.
However, as with PC, Faction Warfare needs some serious love:
- Team Deploy
- Ability to select battle location from Star Map
- Defenders already own all points at match start
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
6129
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 14:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
I'm absolutely against this. It would gate out the most balanced game mode from new players.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4271
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Posted - 2015.04.14 14:47:00 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Dear players,
I have been mulling and considering an idea passed on to me. So bear with me for a second and read it all before jumping to conclusions.
What if Skirmish, as the most tactical game mode becomes FW only.
Players that want to play Skirmish will migrate over there, which in turn will make queuing shorter and more attractive.
Domination, Ambush and maybe another Game mode will be in the Public Contracts, thematically "smaller affairs" which makes sense. Skirmish to me is taking over a district, for your own in PC or for a Faction in FW.
To make the transition easier, we would add ISK rewards to FW so players can make LP and ISK at the same time. Solid ISK rewards to make it a closer match between PC and FW.
To get rid of the AFKing, as obnoxious as it is, we would add a WP threshold to FW for all rewards.
New players no longer get thrown into a 5 point skirmish, which is always a disorienting experience.
Please discuss.
Other things that are more difficult to do
Team Deploy
Locking to Faction
Skirmish has always been my primary play mode. As such I would be sad to see it leave public contracts.
That being said, I would actually support this change as described - the addition of ISK rewards is key - so long as the racial Loyalty Store for each faction has been fully fleshed out prior to the proposed change.
If skirmish is to become a FW and PC exclusive mode then players need to be able to 'live' in those modes, i.e. gain all the resources they require to sustain their fits and playstyle without being required to play public contracts (thus being forced, under the new proposal, to play game modes they may not enjoy).
My 0.02 ISK
Cross
See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
993
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 14:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Dear players,
I have been mulling and considering an idea passed on to me. So bear with me for a second and read it all before jumping to conclusions.
What if Skirmish, as the most tactical game mode becomes FW only.
Players that want to play Skirmish will migrate over there, which in turn will make queuing shorter and more attractive.
Domination, Ambush and maybe another Game mode will be in the Public Contracts, thematically "smaller affairs" which makes sense. Skirmish to me is taking over a district, for your own in PC or for a Faction in FW.
To make the transition easier, we would add ISK rewards to FW so players can make LP and ISK at the same time. Solid ISK rewards to make it a closer match between PC and FW.
To get rid of the AFKing, as obnoxious as it is, we would add a WP threshold to FW for all rewards.
New players no longer get thrown into a 5 point skirmish, which is always a disorienting experience.
Please discuss.
Other things that are more difficult to do
Team Deploy
Locking to Faction
Considering that FW exists as a eve/dust link... You probably should find a way for that to be more user friendly. The ability to choose districts to attack in dust so that coordinated attacks can be made with eve pilots should have been available at the start. Moving skirmish to FW doesn't improve the experience for either dust or eve. FW fails because attacks can't be coordinated with eve pilots reliably. |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2659
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 15:11:00 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Lost me at "WP Threshold".
Decline until that bit is taken out. so you like fighting 8 MCC campers with no wp, no kills, no deaths
A threshold is fine as an interim measure. In the longer term we need to figure out what FW is, exactly. We share this problem with EVE, where FW and losec are poorly integrated into New Eden in terms of 'meaning'.
Would also like to say that introducing currencies and marketplaces work to some extent, but are likewise artificial and immersion-breaking, and a bit 'gamey'. Fine for now but we should be able to do better and increase immersion hand-in-hand with player engagement & entertainment value.
Always felt that losec contracts would be where the pirate organizations and empire megacorps would 'do business', largely free from bothersome concord and empire law. In the context of DUST/FW i suppose i'd try to make a 'raiding' game mode where the objective/win was not clone depletion or MCC death, but rather resource defense vs. resource pirating. Clone count and MCC destruction would still end the match, but the payout conditions would be based on resources defended/pirated.
Peeps who afked in this mode would get nothing if they hadn't sequestered/raided resources. Peeps who only slew and refused to hack resource nodes would get standard WP/sp payouts and peeps who fought and sequestered/pirated resources would get the ISK/LP payout.
PSN: RationalSpark
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Unit Pwnycorn
3085
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Posted - 2015.04.14 15:15:00 -
[54] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Dear players,
I have been mulling and considering an idea passed on to me. So bear with me for a second and read it all before jumping to conclusions.
What if Skirmish, as the most tactical game mode becomes FW only.
Players that want to play Skirmish will migrate over there, which in turn will make queuing shorter and more attractive.
Domination, Ambush and maybe another Game mode will be in the Public Contracts, thematically "smaller affairs" which makes sense. Skirmish to me is taking over a district, for your own in PC or for a Faction in FW.
To make the transition easier, we would add ISK rewards to FW so players can make LP and ISK at the same time. Solid ISK rewards to make it a closer match between PC and FW.
To get rid of the AFKing, as obnoxious as it is, we would add a WP threshold to FW for all rewards.
New players no longer get thrown into a 5 point skirmish, which is always a disorienting experience.
Please discuss.
Other things that are more difficult to do
Team Deploy
Locking to Faction
The Network Latency in FW is strong for Eu and (I suppose) Asia players. And that's a huge problem considering a good 60% of a player's performances are dictated by latency in any FPS. Unless you plan to add a server selection for FW, it's not good at all imo. It will be more or less like PC: people refusing to play because of both latency and framerate issues.
Guinea Dust Bunnies are watching you, CCP Rouge.
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The Dark Cloud
Negative-Feedback.
4384
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 15:17:00 -
[55] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:I'm absolutely against this. It would gate out the most balanced game mode from new players.
Deploying into FW is a choice to step into proper competetive play. People are aware of this and if they want to become better at the game its a natural choice to try to keep up with better players. There are 3 ways how people learn not to do scrubby stuff:
1. trough carefull thoughts and thinking what you fit on your suits and what you do in advance (the best way)
2. trough mimicing other players (thats the easiest to ask other people what they use and do)
3. trough experience (which comes by getting stomped cause you do something utterly stupid or use crap fits)
And you have to keep in mind nobody forces you to play FW you could allways stick to pubs with its skill based matchmaking.
I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
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Haerr
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
2734
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Posted - 2015.04.14 15:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
Someone suggested that there should be a compromise:
[PUB] Solo Queue - Ambush, Ambush OMS
[PUB] Squad Queue - Domination, Acquisition, Large Complex Skirmish (3-point)
[FW] & [PC] - Skirmish Proper (5-point)
The reason for splitting PUBs into Solo and Squad queue instead of by game mode being that it would be better for the matchmaking. Better matches even though you might not allways get to play your favourite game mode is likely a net gain. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
6236
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 15:58:00 -
[57] - Quote
I usually que for Ambush/Domination/Skirmish and take whatever comes up. I guess if Skirmish was FW only I would have to chose one or the other.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Kaze Eyrou
DUST University
Ivy League
2102
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 17:14:00 -
[58] - Quote
My knee-jerk reaction to this: Not a good idea.
However, if everything was done as Rattati said: ISK rewards from FW, Team Deploy, Locking of Faction... if these are done correctly, I could see myself playing more FW which seems to be the goal here.
There are many pros and cons with this. Going to sit on the fence on this one until I talk with more people about this.
CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
Kaze's Helpful Links
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reydient
ROGUE RELICS
102
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Posted - 2015.04.14 17:25:00 -
[59] - Quote
Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:public contract skirmish should be 3 point skirm maps as this isn't too disorientating. skirmish is the only gamemode I like/love.\
fw skirmish should consist soley of 5 point......maybe introduce (re-introduce for us beta and e3 build players) 6 point and even if possible 7 point maps.
fw battles should hand out at least 80% of the public skirm isk income (80% due to also accuring LP) change base lp payout to a base LP + 15% of total wp. this means the more active players....or players that want to make a difference get rewared for fighting for their faction..... also increase SP gain by say 3-5% (this is fw **** matters and should reward better...slightly..over pub contracts)
equation would look like this,
battle LP + faction rank x faction booster + loyalty rank + 15% wp converted = LP overallpayout.
this woulod make it eaiser to accurie LP to buy the higher end lp items.....looking at you lp apex suits. hence more players would have an incentive to play fw everynow and then.
while making fw changes.... at least give the loseing team +30 fw rank that way you still get to increase your rank even if your team loses.
I think this is an excellent incentive to play FW. I would further elaborate by suggesting , FW module BPOs i.e basic reactive plates or basic shield modules. Those along side apex gear may have more people playing FW. Apex are a great incentive but a non customizable proto suit leaves much to be desire. Imagine how pumped people would be if they could have a BPO of a caldari bolt pistol or a BPO FW HMG or active scanner. |
reydient
ROGUE RELICS
102
|
Posted - 2015.04.14 17:28:00 -
[60] - Quote
Banjo Robertson wrote:Skirmish is my favorite game mode. Although when I hop on in the morning to play, I only seem to be able to get into domination, naturally of course I'm also unable to get into a gallente fac war.
I would support the idea of skirmish only being in FW and PC, but I woudl like to see a player vs drone FW mode as well, of course with less LP rewards than the PVP skirmish FW.
To me the main problem with FW is that you're not able to play it whenever you want, or rather, there usually aren't enough people on both sides of the coin to start a FW at many points in the day.
Biggest complaint Ive had so far ! |
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