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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2592
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Posted - 2015.03.28 13:05:00 -
[121] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Golden Day wrote:Soo......
When will we get Drones?? I will - for now - answer that question with another question (because I can't very well shake my fist at CCP for over-promising and then do the same kitten myself now can I?), so... How would you mercs like a Drone survival mode? A drone survival mode? Does it involve getting stuck on terrain/objects, grenades bouncing of of clear air and crappy aiming mechanics?
If so, i'll pass.
Any news on Hilmar/Rouge/Rattati's positions on core fps mechanics?
PSN: RationalSpark
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2592
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Posted - 2015.03.28 13:13:00 -
[122] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Golden Day wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Cross Atu wrote:Golden Day wrote:Soo......
When will we get Drones?? I will - for now - answer that question with another question (because I can't very well shake my fist at CCP for over-promising and then do the same kitten myself now can I?), so... How would you mercs like a Drone survival mode? I need several towels... I wan't it Drone difficulty should be based if you are in highsec,lowsec,nullsec I'd personally love to see a scaled element where the longer you survive (limited clones etc) the harder the fight and any earnings from it scale with the 'wave' you reach. PVE should exist in this game under only one circumstance: as PC district maintenance contracts.
Dust needs the social interaction between high-end PC corps and low-end pve corps which that would engender. A contract system would be required to support it, which would in and of itself be a tremendously valuable immersion/community-building tool.
If Rattai is serious about how to bring New Eden to Dust he won't find anything more immersive or that generates devtime payback than contracts/PC maintenance.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4160
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Posted - 2015.03.28 15:10:00 -
[123] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Cross Atu wrote:Golden Day wrote:Soo......
When will we get Drones?? I will - for now - answer that question with another question (because I can't very well shake my fist at CCP for over-promising and then do the same kitten myself now can I?), so... How would you mercs like a Drone survival mode? A drone survival mode? Does it involve getting stuck on terrain/objects, grenades bouncing of of clear air and crappy aiming mechanics? If so, i'll pass. Any news on Hilmar/Rouge/Rattati's positions on core fps mechanics? CCP Rattati has been looking into improving the core mechanics. The legacy code is frankly a mess but there are folks working on ways of sorting it out. It is a priority and I expect continued improvements to it.
See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4160
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Posted - 2015.03.28 15:14:00 -
[124] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote: PVE should exist in this game under only one circumstance: as PC district maintenance contracts.
Dust needs the social interaction between high-end PC corps and low-end pve corps which that would engender. A contract system would be required to support it, which would in and of itself be a tremendously valuable immersion/community-building tool.
If Rattai is serious about how to bring New Eden to Dust he won't find anything more immersive or that generates devtime payback than contracts/PC maintenance.
I agree that it makes a good PC mechanic. I disagree that it should be exclusively employe there. The possible values of PvE for training, NPE, and the enjoyment of the general populace are far too meaningful to be locked behind a PC play barrier.
Now how each of those those uses PvE interactions doesn't have to be carbon copied so there is room for unique experiences tailored to each type/style of use and were that the context I could certainly support PC PvE being distinct from NPE PvE and 'pub' PvE (which would also be differentiated from each other).
See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2593
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Posted - 2015.03.28 16:26:00 -
[125] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Cross Atu wrote:Golden Day wrote:Soo......
When will we get Drones?? I will - for now - answer that question with another question (because I can't very well shake my fist at CCP for over-promising and then do the same kitten myself now can I?), so... How would you mercs like a Drone survival mode? A drone survival mode? Does it involve getting stuck on terrain/objects, grenades bouncing of of clear air and crappy aiming mechanics? If so, i'll pass. Any news on Hilmar/Rouge/Rattati's positions on core fps mechanics? CCP Rattati has been looking into improving the core mechanics. The legacy code is frankly a mess but there are folks working on ways of sorting it out. It is a priority and I expect continued improvements to it. Good news on the mechanics, better than good news. Nothing like fundamentals to give a game a future. Godspeed to the team.
Re: The PvE training mode agree 100%.
Also agree that we need PvE that is non-gated and available to all players/corps of all levels, but really want to make sure that it doesn't segregate or balkanize the population.
PC maintenance contracts could be very accessible and scaleable in difficulty. If the contract system supports an auto-contract feature with a few variables/filters, corps or squads looking for some light/heavy/brutal PvE action could just submit a request to the matchmaker and the various district owner's pre-set autocontract filters would do the rest.
Upside of this approach would be something like Kain Spero looking at PC District defense logs and wallet activity saying "Who is this corp XYZ? They're doing solid work against heavy Drone infestations, we should check them out."
Not married to this - just some ideas for the stewpot. Thanks for the replies, sounds hopeful on several fronts.
PSN: RationalSpark
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sabre prime
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
994
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Posted - 2015.03.28 18:11:00 -
[126] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:CCP Rattati has been looking into improving the core mechanics. The legacy code is frankly a mess but there are folks working on ways of sorting it out. It is a priority and I expect continued improvements to it. Yes, please, so much this. That is one of the most encouraging things I've heard about the game recently. Any effort to look at the fundamentals, will do a lot for the game.
The slow blade penetrates the shield.
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Mobius Wyvern
Sky-FIRE
5866
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Posted - 2015.03.30 12:10:00 -
[127] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Mad Syringe wrote:Ares 514 wrote:Very useful post. I do however really hope the CPM is pushing for a PS4 port not a PC port. That's exactly the point, I think there are many in the playerbase, who won't move over to PC, but have a PS4 or plan to buy one in the future. I personally won't put any more money in the game, before this decision is made, and backed. the PS4 is a low end PC, they could easily port from PC to PS4. IF they could bring it to a new platform I might actually start playing it again. On that general theme my stance has always been to support a port to both. This stance was stated plainly in my platform before the election and remains true now. Being utterly blunt, as I have said elsewhere, community infighting about "which one" will happen is both detrimental and a waste of energy. In the end market analytics are more likely to decide which "one" if there is only one but a unified community with robust numbers/support for the game is more likely to get both than a divided community. 0.02 ISK Cross The issue is that supporting both platforms will alienate a portion of users from both who don't want to be involved with the "rival faction", so to speak.
If the game supports both, PC players will refuse to play it because it's full of "console peasants", and console players will refused to play it because they don't want to deal with "elitist" PC gamers and hackers.
I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV
R.I.P. Kesha
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Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
1014
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Posted - 2015.03.30 12:29:00 -
[128] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:They do actually know that the game needs to move to a new format for it to continue I hasten to add. It's not like it's escaped their notice But such a move has costs as I'm sure you'll understand. The game would most likely have to done from scratch as the PS3 architecture and code is simply not able to be ported as is to an X64 based architecture. Not a small job by any means.
Now this is an interesting tidbit. I didn't realise how unportable the codebase was. Having said that, as they based most of the models, animation and art assets on the UE3 engine, I imagine they can be ported to UE4? That would save an immense amount of time, especially if they started with hi-res assets and had to downscale them for PS3 (which happens a lot I imagine).
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4179
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Posted - 2015.03.30 13:18:00 -
[129] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Cross Atu wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Mad Syringe wrote:Ares 514 wrote:Very useful post. I do however really hope the CPM is pushing for a PS4 port not a PC port. That's exactly the point, I think there are many in the playerbase, who won't move over to PC, but have a PS4 or plan to buy one in the future. I personally won't put any more money in the game, before this decision is made, and backed. the PS4 is a low end PC, they could easily port from PC to PS4. IF they could bring it to a new platform I might actually start playing it again. On that general theme my stance has always been to support a port to both. This stance was stated plainly in my platform before the election and remains true now. Being utterly blunt, as I have said elsewhere, community infighting about "which one" will happen is both detrimental and a waste of energy. In the end market analytics are more likely to decide which "one" if there is only one but a unified community with robust numbers/support for the game is more likely to get both than a divided community. 0.02 ISK Cross The issue is that supporting both platforms will alienate a portion of users from both who don't want to be involved with the "rival faction", so to speak. If the game supports both, PC players will refuse to play it because it's full of "console peasants", and console players will refused to play it because they don't want to deal with "elitist" PC gamers and hackers.
Playing on both console and PC myself for many years I am well aware of the ludicrous feud that is maintained by some, even unto this day. However as I've discovered recently just because a group of people, or even two groups of people, on the internet do a thing does not actually mean that said thing makes any rational constructive sense.
Having this community, of currently active players in Dust 514 seek to forcibly exclude a portion of our own based on their next gen hardware preference (be that desktop or console) is of no constructive merit. It impedes the current game and does nothing to define the format of the ported game except perhaps reduce the likelihood of a duel port.
Even if a portion of each 'faction' refuses to play due to their 'rivals' being present (a very odd stance for those signing into a war game) that does not equate to a lower total potential player base than a port to a single platform. Further those who would take the route of refusing to play under a duel port system are not a very high priority segment of player base, indeed cannot be if their loyalty is more to the hardware than the game. Each hardware type provides many games, seeking to appease someone who may just as likely leave for "greener pastures" as stick around to be active is not the most savvy way to see Dust thrive. Where as supporting both opens the doors to those who have only one or the other hardware type (and not the funds to purchase a second) but still wish to play the game.
The whole discussion may be moot, there may not be a duel port in the cards (much as I support one) and if that's the case then it will be a business decision, based more on market analytics than anything said on these forums, which defines where that port lands.
In essence any way you slice it conducting the "console vs pc war" here on the Dust forums serves no viable constructive purpose, only a detrimental one (AFAIK)
0.02 ISK Cross
See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
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Kevall Longstride
Dust University Ivy League
2672
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Posted - 2015.03.30 13:41:00 -
[130] - Quote
Justicar Karnellia wrote:Kevall Longstride wrote:They do actually know that the game needs to move to a new format for it to continue I hasten to add. It's not like it's escaped their notice But such a move has costs as I'm sure you'll understand. The game would most likely have to done from scratch as the PS3 architecture and code is simply not able to be ported as is to an X64 based architecture. Not a small job by any means. Now this is an interesting tidbit. I didn't realise how unportable the codebase was. Having said that, as they based most of the models, animation and art assets on the UE3 engine, I imagine they can be ported to UE4? That would save an immense amount of time, especially if they started with hi-res assets and had to downscale them for PS3 (which happens a lot I imagine).
Assets can be ported without much trouble as I understand it from UE3 to 4 for use in any new game.
The legacy code for everything else needs to die with fire. The only defence the Devs could give me about coding for the PS3 was that it wasn't as bad as the PS2.
It's not too much of an imaginative stretch that should a port become a reality the current team would want 'fresh code' to work with rather than the older stuff.
CPM 1 member
CEO of DUST University
Vist dustcpm.com
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Vell0cet
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2866
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Posted - 2015.03.30 13:52:00 -
[131] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Justicar Karnellia wrote:Kevall Longstride wrote:They do actually know that the game needs to move to a new format for it to continue I hasten to add. It's not like it's escaped their notice But such a move has costs as I'm sure you'll understand. The game would most likely have to done from scratch as the PS3 architecture and code is simply not able to be ported as is to an X64 based architecture. Not a small job by any means. Now this is an interesting tidbit. I didn't realise how unportable the codebase was. Having said that, as they based most of the models, animation and art assets on the UE3 engine, I imagine they can be ported to UE4? That would save an immense amount of time, especially if they started with hi-res assets and had to downscale them for PS3 (which happens a lot I imagine). Assets can be ported without much trouble as I understand it from UE3 to 4 for use in any new game. The legacy code for everything else needs to die with fire. The only defence the Devs could give me about coding for the PS3 was that it wasn't as bad as the PS2. It's not too much of an imaginative stretch that should a port become a reality the current team would want 'fresh code' to work with rather than the older stuff. You should read this famous article. Old code is good code.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Kevall Longstride
Dust University Ivy League
2672
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Posted - 2015.03.30 14:01:00 -
[132] - Quote
I think the Dust Dev team might say instead 'Old code is code that works but not how we want it to work'
CPM 1 member
CEO of DUST University
Vist dustcpm.com
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Vell0cet
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2867
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Posted - 2015.03.30 14:29:00 -
[133] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:I think the Dust Dev team might say instead 'Old code is code that works but not how we want it to work' Nobody likes how it currently works. There is a process in software development of improving the code you have instead of literally starting from scratch. What makes you think a smaller, poorly funded team, likely with a lot of different people in it than the original guys can do the job better from scratch? You're literally advocating that CCP should do the one thing that should never be done in software development.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Mobius Wyvern
Sky-FIRE
5868
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Posted - 2015.03.30 14:50:00 -
[134] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:
Playing on both console and PC myself for many years I am well aware of the ludicrous feud that is maintained by some, even unto this day. However as I've discovered recently just because a group of people, or even two groups of people, on the internet do a thing does not actually mean that said thing makes any rational constructive sense.
Having this community, of currently active players in Dust 514 seek to forcibly exclude a portion of our own based on their next gen hardware preference (be that desktop or console) is of no constructive merit. It impedes the current game and does nothing to define the format of the ported game except perhaps reduce the likelihood of a duel port.
Even if a portion of each 'faction' refuses to play due to their 'rivals' being present (a very odd stance for those signing into a war game) that does not equate to a lower total potential player base than a port to a single platform. Further those who would take the route of refusing to play under a duel port system are not a very high priority segment of player base, indeed cannot be if their loyalty is more to the hardware than the game. Each hardware type provides many games, seeking to appease someone who may just as likely leave for "greener pastures" as stick around to be active is not the most savvy way to see Dust thrive. Where as supporting both opens the doors to those who have only one or the other hardware type (and not the funds to purchase a second) but still wish to play the game.
The whole discussion may be moot, there may not be a duel port in the cards (much as I support one) and if that's the case then it will be a business decision, based more on market analytics than anything said on these forums, which defines where that port lands.
In essence any way you slice it conducting the "console vs pc war" here on the Dust forums serves no viable constructive purpose, only a detrimental one (AFAIK)
0.02 ISK Cross
I think the whole conflict is stupid as well, but it has effects on the perception of people outside of the conflict, as detrimental as that is.
As well, the issue of game mechanics needs to be considered. A PC player won't tolerate a shooter that places limits on how fast they can aim with their mouse, and at the same time they wouldn't want to play with console players that have Aim-Assist which they commonly refer to as "auto-aim".
While the PC vs Console "war" is beyond stupid, there are some valid gameplay-related issues in the mix.
I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV
R.I.P. Kesha
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Kevall Longstride
Dust University Ivy League
2673
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Posted - 2015.03.30 17:17:00 -
[135] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Kevall Longstride wrote:I think the Dust Dev team might say instead 'Old code is code that works but not how we want it to work' Nobody likes how it currently works. There is a process in software development of improving the code you have instead of literally starting from scratch. What makes you think a smaller, poorly funded team, likely with a lot of different people in it than the original guys can do the job better from scratch? You're literally advocating that CCP should do the one thing that should never be done in software development.
Well, CCP have done it before with Crimewatch in Eve, where they gutted the whole code and rewrote it from stratch. It was deemed easier to rebuild it than figuring out how to repair it. It's also what is planned for the Corp mechanics.
Dust is a strange creature. It's already a hybridisation of its original PC code, mixed with PS3 cell tech and utilising a heavily modified UE3. Much of the hotfix process has been spent just figuring out what it can and can't do.
Rattati and his team have found a huge amount of what it can do, hence the fairly significant changes that hot fixes have brought. But by the same token there's s lot that it can't do. It needs a way to fix that so the game can be iterated upon and improved should the opportunity to go next gen happen. How much work needs doing exactly has not made privy to us. But it's something I'm sure that Shanghai would love to get their teeth into.
CPM 1 member
CEO of DUST University
Vist dustcpm.com
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
724
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Posted - 2015.03.30 18:09:00 -
[136] - Quote
The idea of mingling with Eve pilots kind of died with Walking In Stations being scrapped. They basically built the rendering engine and character builders and social animation and ray tracing lighting effects. The end results were the space apartments we all have instead of a cross platform Mos Eisley Cantina. CCP has a lot of nearly finished code, and I can't believe an x86 conversion doesn't already exist for Dust 514.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
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Vell0cet
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2868
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Posted - 2015.03.30 23:19:00 -
[137] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Kevall Longstride wrote:I think the Dust Dev team might say instead 'Old code is code that works but not how we want it to work' Nobody likes how it currently works. There is a process in software development of improving the code you have instead of literally starting from scratch. What makes you think a smaller, poorly funded team, likely with a lot of different people in it than the original guys can do the job better from scratch? You're literally advocating that CCP should do the one thing that should never be done in software development. Well, CCP have done it before with Crimewatch in Eve, where they gutted the whole code and rewrote it from stratch. It was deemed easier to rebuild it than figuring out how to repair it. It's also what is planned for the Corp mechanics. Dust is a strange creature. It's already a hybridisation of its original PC code, mixed with PS3 cell tech and utilising a heavily modified UE3. Much of the hotfix process has been spent just figuring out what it can and can't do. Rattati and his team have found a huge amount of what it can do, hence the fairly significant changes that hot fixes have brought. But by the same token there's s lot that it can't do. It needs a way to fix that so the game can be iterated upon and improved should the opportunity to go next gen happen. How much work needs doing exactly has not made privy to us. But it's something I'm sure that Shanghai would love to get their teeth into. You're referencing a single system in EVE. I have no problems with starting from scratch for certain areas of code, but they should salvage everything they possibly can. If they just start with a blank file and start coding it will either never get finished, or they'll be forced to release it well before it's ready and we're looking at a bug-ridden (possibly with the same bugs before) Uprising 1.0 scenario all over again, with another blown launch, bad reviews and a total inability to capitalize on the post-launch buzz.
I'd much prefer to see CCP migrate the existing code over to a new architecture line-by-line, doing architecture refactoring where that makes sense to produce clean, maintainable code in the future, while capturing all of the past bug fixes that have been implemented. This is the approach most of EVE development has taken (as far as I understand it) when they've refactored large chunks of legacy code. There may be systems that are just a total mess, but it would be foolish not to review the existing code before reworking it.
Best PvE idea ever!
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