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Drogan Reeth
Free Trade Corp
89
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Posted - 2015.03.20 17:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Last game I watched as a tank turn on his armor hardeners and then take hits from 2 swarms and a blaster installation while his armor did not move from 100% until his hardener turned off and he ran away. |
Everything Dies
Not Another Dust Corporation
1286
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Posted - 2015.03.20 17:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
A double-hardened armor tank is all but invincible while the hardeners are active; once down, however, it's going to be paper-thin. This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety.
Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
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Drogan Reeth
Free Trade Corp
89
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Posted - 2015.03.20 17:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
That makes for very ****** game play. Because you spawn in as AV and shoot at the tank hopelessly doing nothing. Then the tank runs to the other side of the map and you're stuck there again doing nothing cause there's now nothing to shoot at. |
Michael Epic
Horizons' Edge
671
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Posted - 2015.03.20 17:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:A double-hardened armor tank is all but invincible while the hardeners are active; once down, however, it's going to be paper-thin. This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety.
So its safe to say that the whole entirety of the tankers in the game are now hit and run sissies?
Michael Epic's "EPIC" Proposal to his girlfriend :D
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Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
3655
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Posted - 2015.03.20 17:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
easy to kill if you stalk them.
Also shoving a FG round or D-modded Rail Round up their bum goes a long way, does a hefty amount of damage before they get a chance to activate those hardeners.
Also note that a FG round gets more bonus damage then normal against the weak point of an HAV, over 170% even against shields, about double against armor, a single IAFG round to the engine block will absolutely trash a double-hardened HAV if you catch them by surprise, or even OHK if using a D-modded Breach.
It's also a good idea to start littering proximity REs around if you see people running dual-hardeners. Easy to kill with those.
When HAVing I always before hand suit up in my logi suit, packs a D-modded swarm, AV nades, and three groups of proxies (one of each kind). I kid you not I net an HAV and 3-4 LAVs every match this way just from the proxies I place in key locations.
Also to the HAVers out there, a single proxie will take out any and every JLAV due to triggering their REs with the splash. You can easily create "safe zones" this way as you can spread them hella thin if just warding against JLAVers. Insanely useful.
"You see those red dots over there?
Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
4350
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Posted - 2015.03.20 17:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lying.
Your HP does drop but a repper will bring it back up so while it takes no damage it is repping.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
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Heimdallr69
Negative-Feedback.
4976
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Posted - 2015.03.20 17:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sadly its cuz you AV guys have cried for so long to get tanks nerfed.. Too bad you don't get a free 150 WP anymore you actually have to work for it. Imagine that, actually having to use teamwork for once.
Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
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Drogan Reeth
Free Trade Corp
89
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Posted - 2015.03.20 17:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Lying.
Your HP does drop but a repper will bring it back up so while it takes no damage it is repping.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
The point is 3 ppl shooting at the tank became worthless. Then the tank ran to the red line and the AV ppl sat around with fingers up thier bum, again worthless. Until the tank returned, but his hardners where back up now, again the 3 ppl shot hopelessly till they ran out of ammo. That's stupid game play. |
Ghost Kaisar
Negative-Feedback
10738
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Posted - 2015.03.20 17:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Lying.
Your HP does drop but a repper will bring it back up so while it takes no damage it is repping.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
Not lying, just not exactly whats happening.
As you said, he's dealing damage, but not enough to even matter to regen. He might as well NOT be taking damage at that point.
I'm personally fine with it. If a tank pops hardeners and tries to sit on a point, I just drop a Nanohive and start spamming Lai Dais.
The tank is going to move.
Currently listening to: Max Anarchy OST
Old School Scout, watch out for the knives
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3088
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Drogan Reeth wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Lying.
Your HP does drop but a repper will bring it back up so while it takes no damage it is repping.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 The point is 3 ppl shooting at the tank became worthless. Then the tank ran to the red line and the AV ppl sat around with fingers up thier bum, again worthless. Until the tank returned, but his hardners where back up now, again the 3 ppl shot hopelessly till they ran out of ammo. That's stupid game play.
It's a tank actually being a tank once again.
it was fine during Chromosome, now they're part-way back.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
3655
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Doing some quick math, if running dual hardeners and dual complex reppers on a maddie, you are effectively regaining a bit more then 460 EHP/sec armor wise.
"You see those red dots over there?
Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
4354
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Lying.
Your HP does drop but a repper will bring it back up so while it takes no damage it is repping.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 Not lying, just not exactly whats happening. As you said, he's dealing damage, but not enough to even matter to regen. He might as well NOT be taking damage at that point. I'm personally fine with it. If a tank pops hardeners and tries to sit on a point, I just drop a Nanohive and start spamming Lai Dais. The tank is going to move.
3 Lai Dai deal 5.5k damage.
Though they need magnetic seeking BS taken out because if you can't hit a HAV you need to uninstall.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
4354
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Drogan Reeth wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Lying.
Your HP does drop but a repper will bring it back up so while it takes no damage it is repping.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 The point is 3 ppl shooting at the tank became worthless. Then the tank ran to the red line and the AV ppl sat around with fingers up thier bum, again worthless. Until the tank returned, but his hardners where back up now, again the 3 ppl shot hopelessly till they ran out of ammo. That's stupid game play.
I run with 2 gunners in my HAV.
It should take 3 people to try and combat me.
So he pops out with the hardeners back on, that is smart piloting, do you really expect pilots to dual AV which can pop a basic HAV with no hardener on in about a clip?
AV has had its fun in the sun for about 2.5 years and still does where DS are concerned, AV is not the be all and end all button that it currently is.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
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Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
3655
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
3 Lai Dai deal 5.5k damage.
Though they need magnetic seeking BS taken out because if you can't hit a HAV you need to uninstall.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
BS is profanity, whether abbreviated or not. I'm suing you for nullifying your disclaimer. Please remove your disclaimer, or edit your post, or I shall be forced to take legal measures.
"You see those red dots over there?
Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
4354
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
3 Lai Dai deal 5.5k damage.
Though they need magnetic seeking BS taken out because if you can't hit a HAV you need to uninstall.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
BS is profanity, whether abbreviated or not. I'm suing you for nullifying your disclaimer. Please remove your disclaimer, or edit your post, or I shall be forced to take legal measures.
Prove it?
What does BS stand for?
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
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Drogan Reeth
Free Trade Corp
89
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Drogan Reeth wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Lying.
Your HP does drop but a repper will bring it back up so while it takes no damage it is repping.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 The point is 3 ppl shooting at the tank became worthless. Then the tank ran to the red line and the AV ppl sat around with fingers up thier bum, again worthless. Until the tank returned, but his hardners where back up now, again the 3 ppl shot hopelessly till they ran out of ammo. That's stupid game play. I run with 2 gunners in my HAV. It should take 3 people to try and combat me. So he pops out with the hardeners back on, that is smart piloting, do you really expect pilots to dual AV which can pop a basic HAV with no hardener on in about a clip? AV has had its fun in the sun for about 2.5 years and still does where DS are concerned, AV is not the be all and end all button that it currently is. Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
But 3 ppl can't combat you. One side is invincible the other is not.
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
4354
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Drogan Reeth wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Drogan Reeth wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Lying.
Your HP does drop but a repper will bring it back up so while it takes no damage it is repping.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 The point is 3 ppl shooting at the tank became worthless. Then the tank ran to the red line and the AV ppl sat around with fingers up thier bum, again worthless. Until the tank returned, but his hardners where back up now, again the 3 ppl shot hopelessly till they ran out of ammo. That's stupid game play. I run with 2 gunners in my HAV. It should take 3 people to try and combat me. So he pops out with the hardeners back on, that is smart piloting, do you really expect pilots to dual AV which can pop a basic HAV with no hardener on in about a clip? AV has had its fun in the sun for about 2.5 years and still does where DS are concerned, AV is not the be all and end all button that it currently is. Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 But 3 ppl can't combat you. One side is invincible the other is not.
AV is hard to hit with a gimped blaster, so OP while they get weapons which do all the aiming for them.
I agree AV should not be invincible.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
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Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
3655
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Drogan Reeth wrote:But 3 ppl can't combat you. One side is invincible the other is not.
They can though if using the right gear, either nail him while his hardeners are on cooldown, sucker punch him with only a handful of proxies, or use three HAVs which will certainly break his tank, or set yourself up while he's shooting up the town to nail him when he disengages (going back to the first method), or see how well his tank holds up against three IAFGs from three people who don't suck at aiming.
Alternatively, ram a JLAV up his bum, using a few REs if you can get him without hardeners, or "go nuts" with REs if he is running hardeners. Nothing can survive a "stacked" JLAV.
This is assuming he's running a pair of hardeners, if he's running just one then a couple of AV (or one really tricked out one) can certainly force him to leave.
"You see those red dots over there?
Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
1076
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:A double-hardened armor tank is all but invincible while the hardeners are active; once down, however, it's going to be paper-thin. This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety.
And yet with 2 armor hardeners on and one enhanced 120 plate and complex heavy rep just one swarmer can destroy my tank before the hardeners get on cooldown if I don't kill that swarmer, what fit that swarmer is using however I do not know.
2 hardeners active and proxies can still hit for 14k damage, done by a single player. And remotes on a jihad can hit for 11k.
2 hardeners active and 2 swarmers will kill you if you are using the fit I mentioned earlier and you don't manage to kill them first.
2 hardeners active and even forges hit for way over 2k if they hit the weakspot, for how much over 2k and with what type of forges I cannot say, what I can say is that I had 2.1k armor left and 2 hardeners on and a single Gastun's forge hit killed me.
So double hardened tanks are still more than possible to kill, even solo. It's just that AV players want all vehicles popping instantly as they just look at them.
EDIT: If you guys don't believe me I will just go out there and record how things are and make a montage out of it. Maybe.
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robin williams' ghost
whisky tango foxtrot sir
1066
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Michael Epic wrote:Everything Dies wrote:A double-hardened armor tank is all but invincible while the hardeners are active; once down, however, it's going to be paper-thin. This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety. So its safe to say that the whole entirety of the tankers in the game are now hit and run sissies?
Yup, we might as well call them scouts now
Robin Williams endorses this corp
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Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
923
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
robin williams' ghost wrote:Michael Epic wrote:Everything Dies wrote:A double-hardened armor tank is all but invincible while the hardeners are active; once down, however, it's going to be paper-thin. This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety. So its safe to say that the whole entirety of the tankers in the game are now hit and run sissies? Yup, we might as well call them scouts now
Careful... Someone might remember the Black ops hav and the next thing you know we'll have cloaked tanks. |
MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
1076
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
On another note: if tanks are invincible, how is it that I can see them? #Logic
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
200
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:A double-hardened armor tank is all but invincible while the hardeners are active; once down, however, it's going to be paper-thin. This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety.
Well, why did he nerf triple shield hardened vehicles? That's the real question
Entering the void and becoming wind.
Message for 1v1 air to air
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Michael Epic
Horizons' Edge
672
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Sadly its cuz you AV guys have cried for so long to get tanks nerfed.. Too bad you don't get a free 150 WP anymore you actually have to work for it. Imagine that, actually having to use teamwork for once.
I can score 150pts in seconds hitting a tank with a forge gun 'bruh lol I don't even have to kill the tank to get dual 75's with a forge gun
Michael Epic's "EPIC" Proposal to his girlfriend :D
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Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
3658
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:On another note: if tanks are invincible, how is it that I can see them? #Logic
Are you mixing up invincible with invisible, or is this a reference of something?
"You see those red dots over there?
Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
1076
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:Everything Dies wrote:A double-hardened armor tank is all but invincible while the hardeners are active; once down, however, it's going to be paper-thin. This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety. Well, why did he nerf triple shield hardened vehicles? That's the real question
Because you can rotate 3 shield hardeners to keep them on constantly, you can do the same with 2 armor hardeners, but armor harderners never had 60% damage resistance from a single hardener.
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Thumb Green
The Valyrian Mercenary Army
2172
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So he pops out with the hardeners back on, that is smart piloting, do you really expect pilots to dual AV which can pop a basic HAV with no hardener on in about a clip?
Why is it vehicle players think AV should take more than one clip kill something but are fine with the fact that everything else can kill 2 or 3 of somethings in a clip? Why is it that AV are the only weapons you expect to take more than one clip to do it's job?
Just because you're in a tank doesn't mean you're invincible to infantry, in fact infantry is the greatest threat to tanks. Why? Because they can pop out from anywhere and 1-2 shot your ass and there's not a damn thing you can do about it if you don't have your own infantry support.
Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty hipster!
Rated [TV-MA]
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Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
3658
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So he pops out with the hardeners back on, that is smart piloting, do you really expect pilots to dual AV which can pop a basic HAV with no hardener on in about a clip? Why is it vehicle players think AV should take more than one clip kill something but are fine with the fact that everything else can kill 2 or 3 of somethings in a clip? Why is it that AV are the only weapons you expect to take more than one clip to do it's job? Just because you're in a tank doesn't mean you're invincible to infantry, in fact infantry is the greatest threat to tanks. Why? Because they can pop out from anywhere and 1-2 shot your ass and there's not a damn thing you can do about it if you don't have your own infantry support.
He isn't disputing that though, he is saying that naturally he's only going to engage with hardeners on, and that no one sane would do it with them off because AVers will pop you. He wasn't disputing how many "clips or shots" it shoudl take to kill an HAV with hardeners off, he was acknowledging that they ARE a threat.
It seems you're bringing in baggage from other "Us VS Them" threads into here, cut that crap out.
"You see those red dots over there?
Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
1076
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So he pops out with the hardeners back on, that is smart piloting, do you really expect pilots to dual AV which can pop a basic HAV with no hardener on in about a clip? Why is it vehicle players think AV should take more than one clip kill something but are fine with the fact that everything else can kill 2 or 3 of somethings in a clip? Why is it that AV are the only weapons you expect to take more than one clip to do it's job? Just because you're in a tank doesn't mean you're invincible to infantry, in fact infantry is the greatest threat to tanks. Why? Because they can pop out from anywhere and 1-2 shot your ass and there's not a damn thing you can do about it if you don't have your own infantry support.
I guess it would have something do with balance. Tanks are huge targets out there unable to hide very well and have most of the relevant areas in maps denied from them. Infantry are small and can easily place themselves in positions where tanks cannot possibly hurt them but they then can easily combat those tanks regardless.
And there's no such thing as aim assist for tanks so hit detection is horrible and tanks cannot usually strafe and stuff to avoid infantry from hitting those huge hitboxes. Not to mention those fire and forget swarms that do the aiming for you, as if you really needed any more help to hit those huge hitboxes.
I mean, if infantry and tanks were remotely alike then yeah, I guess multiple AV kills per AV weapon clip would be balanced, but as your chance to miss is so low unless you just suck at this game, I don't see why you would need to 1 shot tanks with AV weapons so you can have your multiple AV kills per clip.
Anyway, what do I know? I'm stupid.
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Thumb Green
The Valyrian Mercenary Army
2172
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So he pops out with the hardeners back on, that is smart piloting, do you really expect pilots to dual AV which can pop a basic HAV with no hardener on in about a clip? Why is it vehicle players think AV should take more than one clip kill something but are fine with the fact that everything else can kill 2 or 3 of somethings in a clip? Why is it that AV are the only weapons you expect to take more than one clip to do it's job? Just because you're in a tank doesn't mean you're invincible to infantry, in fact infantry is the greatest threat to tanks. Why? Because they can pop out from anywhere and 1-2 shot your ass and there's not a damn thing you can do about it if you don't have your own infantry support. He isn't disputing that though, he is saying that naturally he's only going to engage with hardeners on, and that no one sane would do it with them off because AVers will pop you. He wasn't disputing how many "clips or shots" it shoudl take to kill an HAV with hardeners off, he was acknowledging that they ARE a threat. It seems you're bringing in baggage from other "Us VS Them" threads into here, cut that crap out.
No he's saying AV shouldn't be able to take out a tank in a single clip and has always said that.
Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty hipster!
Rated [TV-MA]
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DUST Fiend
16147
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:53:00 -
[31] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:A double-hardened armor tank is all but invincible while the hardeners are active; once down, however, it's going to be paper-thin. This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety.
The problem is that really breaks down when they're actively looking to reduce the size of maps in order to increase performance, which equates to less time required to flee to the safe zone, meaning waves of opportunity becomes waves of invincibility.
I just wish flying was viable. Unless you run pure infantry gank python with a full coordinated squad or more, preferably with some tanks on your side...I don't see how dropships are in any way shape or form relevant right now. They need the same treatment, and could honestly use the introduction of medium turrets, since they're medium vehicles and all 
I don't know what DUST is anymore haha, it's fun to watch though.
Contests, Sales, Writing etc
Fly Safe
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Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
3659
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:54:00 -
[32] - Quote
If they want to increase performance, then why not cut down on the size of the insanely huge redline. I mean, seriously... Holy hell.
"You see those red dots over there?
Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
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General Mosquito
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
45
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:58:00 -
[33] - Quote
Drogan Reeth wrote:
But 3 ppl can't combat you. One side is invincible the other is not.
3 infantry with Lai Dais will absolutely nuke any tank. They all don't even need to hit. anything more than 4 is normally a sure kill if you get them thrown close together, but even if you spread them out, 9 packed AV grenades are blowing stuff up.
General Butt Naked - Biomassed
The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned
Only 9 more alts to go.
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
201
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Posted - 2015.03.20 19:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:Everything Dies wrote:A double-hardened armor tank is all but invincible while the hardeners are active; once down, however, it's going to be paper-thin. This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety. Well, why did he nerf triple shield hardened vehicles? That's the real question Because you can rotate 3 shield hardeners to keep them on constantly, you can do the same with 2 armor hardeners, but armor harderners never had 60% damage resistance from a single hardener.
Noo I mean into echo. Not 1.7
Entering the void and becoming wind.
Message for 1v1 air to air
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
941
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Posted - 2015.03.20 19:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
Armour hardener lasts how long? This is no wave of opportunity, it's a bloody tsunami!
I'd rather if we're going to be tanking massive amounts of damage for a time, just make it take 0 damage for 5 seconds with a light hardener, or 15 seconds with a heavy hardener. Light can have a much lower cooldown, designed for multiple uses in a battle, to block a few high powered shots at opportune moments, while the heavy can be on a 50 second or so cooldown for the current 'jump out the redzone, shoot something, jump back in' tactic. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
4356
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 19:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So he pops out with the hardeners back on, that is smart piloting, do you really expect pilots to dual AV which can pop a basic HAV with no hardener on in about a clip? Why is it vehicle players think AV should take more than one clip kill something but are fine with the fact that everything else can kill 2 or 3 of somethings in a clip? Why is it that AV are the only weapons you expect to take more than one clip to do it's job? Just because you're in a tank doesn't mean you're invincible to infantry, in fact infantry is the greatest threat to tanks. Why? Because they can pop out from anywhere and 1-2 shot your ass and there's not a damn thing you can do about it if you don't have your own infantry support. He isn't disputing that though, he is saying that naturally he's only going to engage with hardeners on, and that no one sane would do it with them off because AVers will pop you. He wasn't disputing how many "clips or shots" it shoudl take to kill an HAV with hardeners off, he was acknowledging that they ARE a threat. It seems you're bringing in baggage from other "Us VS Them" threads into here, cut that crap out. No he's saying AV shouldn't be able to take out a tank in a single clip and has always said that.
AV can already take out a tank in a single clip.
I need hardeners just so i can get out of the redline unless i want my 61mil SP 1.2mil HAV to get instagibbed by a player with 5mil SP and a 50k AV fit.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
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Ghost Kaisar
Negative-Feedback
10739
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Posted - 2015.03.20 19:45:00 -
[37] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Lying.
Your HP does drop but a repper will bring it back up so while it takes no damage it is repping.
Not lying, just not exactly whats happening. As you said, he's dealing damage, but not enough to even matter to regen. He might as well NOT be taking damage at that point. I'm personally fine with it. If a tank pops hardeners and tries to sit on a point, I just drop a Nanohive and start spamming Lai Dais. The tank is going to move. 3 Lai Dai deal 5.5k damage. Though they need magnetic seeking BS taken out because if you can't hit a HAV you need to uninstall.
Eh. Their tracking is garbage anyways. Wyirkomis are different though. You need that tracking to hit LAV's.
Currently listening to: Max Anarchy OST
Old School Scout, watch out for the knives
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Thumb Green
The Valyrian Mercenary Army
2172
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 19:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
AV can already take out a tank in a single clip.
Only against bad tankers but I didn't say it couldn't, my comment was about your asinine belief that it should take more than one clip.
Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty hipster!
Rated [TV-MA]
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Grimmiers
819
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Posted - 2015.03.20 20:45:00 -
[39] - Quote
I made a thread about passive and active modules affecting cooldowns and active duration. Activating any combination of modules would deplete your capacity faster and passive modules would increase cooldown times.
This would be to balance any active armor repairers and passive hardeners added to the game, both of which are needed for lavs/dropships to step it up.
So if someone did turn on 2 hardeners the active duration would be cut in haf (about 18 seconds). It's like having a capacitor, but is really a stacking penalty only if you choose activate all at once. |
Operative 1174 Uuali
Y.A.M.A.H
530
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Posted - 2015.03.21 03:32:00 -
[40] - Quote
Drogan Reeth wrote:That makes for very ****** game play. Because you spawn in as AV and shoot at the tank hopelessly doing nothing. Then the tank runs to the other side of the map and you're stuck there again doing nothing cause there's now nothing to shoot at.
Then you must be smart amd actually work for your kill. Go to the other side of the map where you know the tank's path of retreat will be and viola, a kill you can be proud of instead of scrubbing it. Tanks usually make predictable patrols around the map.
Death is a serious businessGǪ So is running a shoddy, half-baked game company.
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Drogan Reeth
Free Trade Corp
89
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Posted - 2015.03.21 03:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Drogan Reeth wrote:That makes for very ****** game play. Because you spawn in as AV and shoot at the tank hopelessly doing nothing. Then the tank runs to the other side of the map and you're stuck there again doing nothing cause there's now nothing to shoot at. Then you must be smart amd actually work for your kill. Go to the other side of the map where you know the tank's path of retreat will be and viola, a kill you can be proud of instead of scrubbing it. Tanks usually make predictable patrols around the map.
Stop making silly excuses' for bad game play. |
Mobius Wyvern
Sky-FIRE
5853
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 03:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
Drogan Reeth wrote:Last game I watched as a tank turn on his armor hardeners and then take hits from 2 swarms and a blaster installation while his armor did not move from 100% until his hardener turned off and he ran away.
That only works because he had hardeners AND those stupid passive repair modules.
Those need to go back to being Active modules again.
I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV
R.I.P. Kesha
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Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
528
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Posted - 2015.03.21 04:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Sadly its cuz you AV guys have cried for so long to get tanks nerfed.. Too bad you don't get a free 150 WP anymore you actually have to work for it. Imagine that, actually having to use teamwork for once.
Yeah we cried so long for them to get nerfed we had to deal with triple rep madrugers for months, then nearly invincible gunnlogis for months, then completely invincible rep/hardener madrugers in this update. I guess we can keep bitching though, since you still dont have a button that just kills everything on the map yet. Maybe you guys will finally think its balanced once hotfix freddy comes out and that module gets implemented.
Meanwhile tankers still have the gall to sit there and imply that AV is overpowered, when it never has been as long as I've been playing. Always with you its: well you just have to use proto swarms, well you just need to use a min commando, well you just need prof 5, well you just need to hit the weak spot, well you just need to blah blah blah. Its unreal all the contortions you tell everyone else to go through just so you can keep believing tanks are not an absurdly overpowered crutch for cunts to abuse.
mad/10, would rage again. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
528
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Posted - 2015.03.21 04:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Drogan Reeth wrote:Last game I watched as a tank turn on his armor hardeners and then take hits from 2 swarms and a blaster installation while his armor did not move from 100% until his hardener turned off and he ran away. That only works because he had hardeners AND those stupid passive repair modules. Those need to go back to being Active modules again.
Making them active modules wont fix a thing, the waves of opportunity design philosophy is broken by design when taken to the extreme we have it in now, because #1: tanks are invincible when the modules are active, which is ******* horrible for everyone, and #2: tanks are paper thin when they aren't active, which is boring for the tank AND for the AV players because the tank is just going to sit in the redline until modules are back. |
Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
201
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Posted - 2015.03.21 04:46:00 -
[45] - Quote
All I say to this is fix the hardeners. armor > shield because of: no rep delay, lower fitting than shield hardener, longer duration, shorter cool down ALL while both = 40%
Just a thought.
Entering the void and becoming wind.
Message for 1v1 air to air
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nelo kazuma
Da Short Buss Driving School
51
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Posted - 2015.03.21 08:16:00 -
[46] - Quote
id honestly be fine with tanks if they only where allowed to use 1 hardener that would make em viable but not indestructable and would give infantry time to regroup and counter but with 2 they just come back waaaaayyy to quick |
nelo kazuma
Da Short Buss Driving School
51
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Posted - 2015.03.21 08:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
even better make armor reps an active module again that would be a the best decision tanks would spend more time activating modules and would have to calculate their atks better and be forced to retreat |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1431
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Posted - 2015.03.21 09:10:00 -
[48] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:[Meanwhile tankers still have the gall to sit there and imply that AV is overpowered, when it never has been as long as I've been playing.
Were you here during 1.4? If so, Swarms were ridiculously OP: 400m lock-on/travel with more damage than current with a marginal decrease in speed and lock-on time - though that just meant that by the time you knew you were under fire, the third volley was about 50m from you...
But really, I hate this V/AV roundabout of:
"But you were OP!
"No you were OP!"
"No you..."
Pointing fingers doesn't help us achieve balance, it just makes people think they're entitled to a period of overpoweredness, which is not only dumb but untrue (since both sides have gone through periods of insane power.) Put your baggage away and focus on actually making the game better, not nuking/super-buffing one side or the other.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
1170
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Posted - 2015.03.21 10:56:00 -
[49] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So he pops out with the hardeners back on, that is smart piloting, do you really expect pilots to dual AV which can pop a basic HAV with no hardener on in about a clip? Why is it vehicle players think AV should take more than one clip kill something but are fine with the fact that everything else can kill 2 or 3 of somethings in a clip? Why is it that AV are the only weapons you expect to take more than one clip to do it's job? Just because you're in a tank doesn't mean you're invincible to infantry, in fact infantry is the greatest threat to tanks. Why? Because they can pop out from anywhere and 1-2 shot your ass and there's not a damn thing you can do about it if you don't have your own infantry support.
Tanking is the only position where you are guaranteed to be engaged by at lest 2 people at any one time.
Every other position can pick and choose their engagements at times. Dropsuits get to choose when and where they are seen, until scanners come into play. Tanks can be seen through walls now at 100m out just by pointing a gun in their direction. The icon highlights through walls. There is no choice of when and where a tank gets to engage, unless they can ambush a target quickly. Even then most others can react to the motion and noise to either avoid or hunt the target.
You open a map, you can follow the tank anywhere.
If you get caught by the tank, it's practically your own fault.
Dropsuits can pick and choose when they will permit a tank to engage them, more often than not, it's when they have AV gear on.
---Oh! I also see lots of AV users still doing the "I'm invincible!" attack style...
What is it you ask? They stand in the middle of an open area and fire their weapon continuously at the tank without trying to move. A good portion of them don't have any cover for more than 100m in any direction.
Not only that, but they're using Militia Swarms and expecting the tank with hardeners on to blow up.
What does that say about the prior state of tanks?
I can say that a lot of people are whining because kills aren't "free" anymore.
Now that SP flows like water almost, boosting an AV weapon should be easy to do.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
1110
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Posted - 2015.03.21 11:11:00 -
[50] - Quote
The problem with the hardener change is that hit+run has always been one of the best play styles for tanks. Now during the "Hit" portion of the hit and run, tanks can do what they want unless alpha'd by 2-3 dedicated AV users.
The risk for tankers is near an all time low with this patch.
BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS | Mass Driver Advocate
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
1170
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 11:23:00 -
[51] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:The problem with the hardener change is that hit+run has always been one of the best play styles for tanks. Now during the "Hit" portion of the hit and run, tanks can do what they want unless alpha'd by 2-3 dedicated AV users.
The risk for tankers is near an all time low with this patch.
Then drive a tank and tell us how low-risk it is.
Don't come crying back to the forums when you get blapped by another tank.
Some dropsuit fittings can also deal enough damage in one hit, that activating the hardeners afterwards is pointless. If you decide to engage with hardeners active for "just in case" you will be at a disadvantage as soon as the shielding goes down.
It's kind of like complaining that a scout with cloaking got behind you then Knova Knifed you to death, then claiming that the scout had no risk because of the dampening setup, while the scout on the other hand, is realizing that only certain places are viable for ambush, and they have to be wary of any eagle-eye assaults that can spot their cloaking at 150m out, due to the lack of health for dampening.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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LudiKure ninda
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
256
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Posted - 2015.03.21 11:31:00 -
[52] - Quote
Your AV Infantry tears are delicius,..
Please moarrr!!
( -í° -£-û -í°)
Send your isk here!
Fully maxed tank pilot.
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Racro 01 Arifistan
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
518
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Posted - 2015.03.21 11:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
Drogan Reeth wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Lying.
Your HP does drop but a repper will bring it back up so while it takes no damage it is repping.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 The point is 3 ppl shooting at the tank became worthless. Then the tank ran to the red line and the AV ppl sat around with fingers up thier bum, again worthless. Until the tank returned, but his hardners where back up now, again the 3 ppl shot hopelessly till they ran out of ammo. That's stupid game play.
you could always follow it to the red;line and keep him in there or forcve him to recall.,
me and my buddie Hera lastnight managed to keep a railtank in his redline using plc/swarm combo on gal/min assaults.....apparently this gunnlogi pilot liked using a 120mm complex on his logi...and seemed to hsave convient fuel injectors.
either way he was stuck in the redline till 2 of his buddies came.
AV vs vehicles is fine as is..............until some **** ass heavy decides to bring out either a aldins or gaustans forge............NOW those are really bullshit av weapons.
Elite Gallenten Soldier
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LudiKure ninda
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
256
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Posted - 2015.03.21 11:49:00 -
[54] - Quote
Only AV weapon Im really scared when driving my tank is a forge gun.
Not even minmadndo can take me out in 3 volley...but after those 3 volleys,if I dont run,well im dead.
( -í° -£-û -í°)
Send your isk here!
Fully maxed tank pilot.
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
4370
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Posted - 2015.03.21 13:04:00 -
[55] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
AV can already take out a tank in a single clip.
Only against bad tankers but I didn't say it couldn't, my comment was about your asinine belief that it should take more than one clip.
Any tank generally can be taken out in 1 clip.
If your hardeners are off you are screwed end of, i would like to say using cover helps but it doesn't when 90% of AV is swarms and they still follow around corners.
AV has all the advantages.
CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
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Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
357
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Posted - 2015.03.21 13:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
Michael Epic wrote:Everything Dies wrote:A double-hardened armor tank is all but invincible while the hardeners are active; once down, however, it's going to be paper-thin. This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety. So its safe to say that the whole entirety of the tankers in the game are now hit and run sissies?
Yup best to hit then make em cut Thier hardener on follow em around a bit (i use lavs)wait for the opportune moment to strike
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
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Mikhail Windgates
7th air cav
3
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Posted - 2015.03.21 13:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
Happy Violentime wrote:robin williams' ghost wrote:Michael Epic wrote:Everything Dies wrote:A double-hardened armor tank is all but invincible while the hardeners are active; once down, however, it's going to be paper-thin. This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety. So its safe to say that the whole entirety of the tankers in the game are now hit and run sissies? Yup, we might as well call them scouts now Careful... Someone might remember the Black ops hav and the next thing you know we'll have cloaked tanks.
they should implement voice audio effects on tanks like this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9IZVWGD6Xk.
activating "iron curtain" err double hardener module....
and for min tanks "high speed low drag" err speed module (if we're going to have one) |
Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
1950
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Posted - 2015.03.21 13:42:00 -
[58] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:A double-hardened armor tank is all but invincible while the hardeners are active; once down, however, it's going to be paper-thin. This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety.
Double hardened Armor tanks can have their hardeners on almost all the time except for like 10-15 seconds.
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
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Nirwanda Vaughns
1560
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Posted - 2015.03.21 14:01:00 -
[59] - Quote
Ambush is such a pleasant place now 
Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience
proud C-II bpo owner
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Nos Nothi
4468
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Posted - 2015.03.21 15:49:00 -
[60] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So he pops out with the hardeners back on, that is smart piloting, do you really expect pilots to dual AV which can pop a basic HAV with no hardener on in about a clip? Why is it vehicle players think AV should take more than one clip kill something but are fine with the fact that everything else can kill 2 or 3 of somethings in a clip? Why is it that AV are the only weapons you expect to take more than one clip to do it's job? Just because you're in a tank doesn't mean you're invincible to infantry, in fact infantry is the greatest threat to tanks. Why? Because they can pop out from anywhere and 1-2 shot your ass and there's not a damn thing you can do about it if you don't have your own infantry support. He isn't disputing that though, he is saying that naturally he's only going to engage with hardeners on, and that no one sane would do it with them off because AVers will pop you. He wasn't disputing how many "clips or shots" it shoudl take to kill an HAV with hardeners off, he was acknowledging that they ARE a threat. It seems you're bringing in baggage from other "Us VS Them" threads into here, cut that crap out. No he's saying AV shouldn't be able to take out a tank in a single clip and has always said that.
please, make your next purchase Reading Comprehension Operation I.
What he SAID was 'do you really expect pilots to dual[sic] AV which can pop HAV with no hardener in just a clip?
Which means simply that 'AV can take HAVs out in a single clip, and that since you can prevent that eventuality, only a moron engages when that's a possibility.'
Please, never make me defend Taka again.
Guys, we need to stop calling MU a 'matchmaker' when it's actually a 'teambuilder'.
And I want to play FE:A now. Damn.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7699
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Posted - 2015.03.21 16:42:00 -
[61] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So he pops out with the hardeners back on, that is smart piloting, do you really expect pilots to dual AV which can pop a basic HAV with no hardener on in about a clip? Why is it vehicle players think AV should take more than one clip kill something but are fine with the fact that everything else can kill 2 or 3 of somethings in a clip? Why is it that AV are the only weapons you expect to take more than one clip to do it's job? Just because you're in a tank doesn't mean you're invincible to infantry, in fact infantry is the greatest threat to tanks. Why? Because they can pop out from anywhere and 1-2 shot your ass and there's not a damn thing you can do about it if you don't have your own infantry support. He isn't disputing that though, he is saying that naturally he's only going to engage with hardeners on, and that no one sane would do it with them off because AVers will pop you. He wasn't disputing how many "clips or shots" it shoudl take to kill an HAV with hardeners off, he was acknowledging that they ARE a threat. It seems you're bringing in baggage from other "Us VS Them" threads into here, cut that crap out. No he's saying AV shouldn't be able to take out a tank in a single clip and has always said that. please, make your next purchase Reading Comprehension Operation I. What he SAID was 'do you really expect pilots to dual[sic] AV which can pop HAV with no hardener in just a clip? Which means simply that 'AV can take HAVs out in a single clip, and that since you can prevent that eventuality, only a moron engages when that's a possibility.' Please, never make me defend Taka again.
actually he has a history of saying it. One of his primary complaints (in several threads) is that standard HAVs can be rapidly killed with one magazine with a prototype forge gun.
Just because he didn't say it in this particular thread doesn't mean he doesn't say it.
AV
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Shade Lert
Rogue Instincts
Ashtar Federation
3
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Posted - 2015.03.21 17:53:00 -
[62] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Sadly its cuz you AV guys have cried for so long to get tanks nerfed.. Too bad you don't get a free 150 WP anymore you actually have to work for it. Imagine that, actually having to use teamwork for once. Yeah we cried so long for them to get nerfed we had to deal with triple rep madrugers for months, then nearly invincible gunnlogis for months, then completely invincible rep/hardener madrugers in this update. I guess we can keep bitching though, since you still dont have a button that just kills everything on the map yet. Maybe you guys will finally think its balanced once hotfix freddy comes out and that module gets implemented. Meanwhile tankers still have the gall to sit there and imply that AV is overpowered, when it never has been as long as I've been playing. Always with you its: well you just have to use proto swarms, well you just need to use a min commando, well you just need prof 5, well you just need to hit the weak spot, well you just need to blah blah blah. Its unreal all the contortions you tell everyone else to go through just so you can keep believing tanks are not an absurdly overpowered crutch for cunts to abuse. mad/10, would rage again.
Really mate? so my tank ive poured all my sp 35 mill into to get my fittings upgrades, my mods upgraded, and my weapons upgraded shouldn't be hard to kill for a red dot using a weapon that hes put maybe a million sp into? thats like saying a red dot with a militia light should be able to kill a proto sentinel. chances are your running a few different proto suits, so your sp has been spread out, you havnt speced nearly as heavily into a single role as i have into tanks. now if you had speced into a guy meant soly fer av and you couldnt kill tanks id be surprised. dont be P.OED because you took one of your suits, threw a AV weapon on it, and and still cant kill tanks. far as im concerned, if you dont have a cal sent with forge, minmando with swarms, or galmando with PLC, you cant complain because you are not wanting to be av, your wanting to get easy points. if you were really wanting to be a AV style player, you would have speced more heavily into av so you could over power tanks. and btw, y do you think you should have to use a proto AV weapon to kill proto tanks? when you see a proto amarr sent do you run at him with a mh82? and btw, its a team game, using teamwork might help to mate, instead of being another blue dot. run with a sqd, get em all to use av, youll have no issue killing that tank.
Sent AK.0- Maxed HMG and Forge
Comm. GK.0- Maxed AR and Maxed PLC, adv shotty
Alts- Vics MAXED- Ass. AK.0 LR, SC R
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
1110
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Posted - 2015.03.21 19:48:00 -
[63] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:KA24DERT wrote:The problem with the hardener change is that hit+run has always been one of the best play styles for tanks. Now during the "Hit" portion of the hit and run, tanks can do what they want unless alpha'd by 2-3 dedicated AV users.
The risk for tankers is near an all time low with this patch. Then drive a tank and tell us how low-risk it is. Don't come crying back to the forums when you get blapped by another tank. Some dropsuit fittings can also deal enough damage in one hit, that activating the hardeners afterwards is pointless. If you decide to engage with hardeners active for "just in case" you will be at a disadvantage as soon as the shielding goes down.
Tanks have always been the best tank hunters, that risk is about the same.
Your risk against AV is at an all time low. You can dip into infantry, hardeners active, blap away, and run away before your hardeners run out with minimal risk. Yeah, you'll be at a disadvantage when your hardeners expire.... big whoop! A tank's speed lets it determine the terms of engagement.
BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS | Mass Driver Advocate
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Archduke Ferd1nand
Nos Nothi
267
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Posted - 2015.03.21 19:48:00 -
[64] - Quote
Michael Epic wrote:Everything Dies wrote:A double-hardened armor tank is all but invincible while the hardeners are active; once down, however, it's going to be paper-thin. This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety. So its safe to say that the whole entirety of the tankers in the game are now hit and run sissies?
Why wouldn't you be if you could move at 40 m/s?
BRB, looking for socks
Asslut Rifles OP, anal now
I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives
|
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
533
|
Posted - 2015.03.21 23:13:00 -
[65] - Quote
Shade Lert wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Sadly its cuz you AV guys have cried for so long to get tanks nerfed.. Too bad you don't get a free 150 WP anymore you actually have to work for it. Imagine that, actually having to use teamwork for once. Yeah we cried so long for them to get nerfed we had to deal with triple rep madrugers for months, then nearly invincible gunnlogis for months, then completely invincible rep/hardener madrugers in this update. I guess we can keep bitching though, since you still dont have a button that just kills everything on the map yet. Maybe you guys will finally think its balanced once hotfix freddy comes out and that module gets implemented. Meanwhile tankers still have the gall to sit there and imply that AV is overpowered, when it never has been as long as I've been playing. Always with you its: well you just have to use proto swarms, well you just need to use a min commando, well you just need prof 5, well you just need to hit the weak spot, well you just need to blah blah blah. Its unreal all the contortions you tell everyone else to go through just so you can keep believing tanks are not an absurdly overpowered crutch for cunts to abuse. mad/10, would rage again. Really mate? so my tank ive poured all my sp 35 mill into to get my fittings upgrades, my mods upgraded, and my weapons upgraded shouldn't be hard to kill for a red dot using a weapon that hes put maybe a million sp into? thats like saying a red dot with a militia light should be able to kill a proto sentinel. chances are your running a few different proto suits, so your sp has been spread out, you havnt speced nearly as heavily into a single role as i have into tanks. now if you had speced into a guy meant soly fer av and you couldnt kill tanks id be surprised. dont be P.OED because you took one of your suits, threw a AV weapon on it, and and still cant kill tanks. far as im concerned, if you dont have a cal sent with forge, minmando with swarms, or galmando with PLC, you cant complain because you are not wanting to be av, your wanting to get easy points. if you were really wanting to be a AV style player, you would have speced more heavily into av so you could over power tanks. and btw, y do you think you should have to use a proto AV weapon to kill proto tanks? when you see a proto amarr sent do you run at him with a mh82? and btw, its a team game, using teamwork might help to mate, instead of being another blue dot. run with a sqd, get em all to use av, youll have no issue killing that tank. EDIT: and really, most of the time if not all the time a tank is not going to stop you from winning, just hack the objective and get links around the area, most objectives are inside buildings or overhead where tanks cant see/get. and one other thing before i sign off, how is a proto tank stomping anything different from a team proto stomping with proto min/amarr assaults and cal scts?ive nvr see a single tank redline a enemy team, but ive sure as hell seen proto stompers redline teams multiple times in a row.
I have min commando, I do use team work, Im using proto AV, armor madrugers are still invincible right now with their hardeners up, gunnlogis are still a huge pain in the ass to kill. Balancing by skill points allocated is completely ******** if one side of an equation does not have the option to sink that many skill points into it.
And yes, when I see a proto amarr sentinel I can and DO run at him with a mh82, and I succeed, because the infantry portion of this game isnt horrendously unbalanced, and unlike the rep/hardener madruger the amarr sentinel can be ******* killed.
"tank is not going to stop you from winning" Wow. Thats funny because Ive seen single tanks effectively win the game for their team just by denying strategic open ground to the enemy team while providing support fire into a bunch of buildings/objective/etc from behind. I see it alot in fact, quite a bit more now that the madruger can literally not be killed by anything less than four proto AV hitting it at exactly the same time.
But its cool, keep pretending tanks are fine so that everyone can tell that you're completely out of touch with what balance looks like. |
Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
466
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 00:04:00 -
[66] - Quote
If there's a supply depots players don't stay in their AV fits after the vehicle has been destroyed, why would tanks stick around when their modules are in cooldown
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
|
Shade Lert
Rogue Instincts
Ashtar Federation
3
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 17:58:00 -
[67] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Shade Lert wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Sadly its cuz you AV guys have cried for so long to get tanks nerfed.. Too bad you don't get a free 150 WP anymore you actually have to work for it. Imagine that, actually having to use teamwork for once. Yeah we cried so long for them to get nerfed we had to deal with triple rep madrugers for months, then nearly invincible gunnlogis for months, then completely invincible rep/hardener madrugers in this update. I guess we can keep bitching though, since you still dont have a button that just kills everything on the map yet. Maybe you guys will finally think its balanced once hotfix freddy comes out and that module gets implemented. Meanwhile tankers still have the gall to sit there and imply that AV is overpowered, when it never has been as long as I've been playing. Always with you its: well you just have to use proto swarms, well you just need to use a min commando, well you just need prof 5, well you just need to hit the weak spot, well you just need to blah blah blah. Its unreal all the contortions you tell everyone else to go through just so you can keep believing tanks are not an absurdly overpowered crutch for cunts to abuse. mad/10, would rage again. Really mate? so my tank ive poured all my sp 35 mill into to get my fittings upgrades, my mods upgraded, and my weapons upgraded shouldn't be hard to kill for a red dot using a weapon that hes put maybe a million sp into? thats like saying a red dot with a militia light should be able to kill a proto sentinel. chances are your running a few different proto suits, so your sp has been spread out, you havnt speced nearly as heavily into a single role as i have into tanks. now if you had speced into a guy meant soly fer av and you couldnt kill tanks id be surprised. dont be P.OED because you took one of your suits, threw a AV weapon on it, and and still cant kill tanks. far as im concerned, if you dont have a cal sent with forge, minmando with swarms, or galmando with PLC, you cant complain because you are not wanting to be av, your wanting to get easy points. if you were really wanting to be a AV style player, you would have speced more heavily into av so you could over power tanks. and btw, y do you think you should have to use a proto AV weapon to kill proto tanks? when you see a proto amarr sent do you run at him with a mh82? and btw, its a team game, using teamwork might help to mate, instead of being another blue dot. run with a sqd, get em all to use av, youll have no issue killing that tank. EDIT: and really, most of the time if not all the time a tank is not going to stop you from winning, just hack the objective and get links around the area, most objectives are inside buildings or overhead where tanks cant see/get. and one other thing before i sign off, how is a proto tank stomping anything different from a team proto stomping with proto min/amarr assaults and cal scts?ive nvr see a single tank redline a enemy team, but ive sure as hell seen proto stompers redline teams multiple times in a row. I have min commando, I do use team work, Im using proto AV, armor madrugers are still invincible right now with their hardeners up, gunnlogis are still a huge pain in the ass to kill. Balancing by skill points allocated is completely ******** if one side of an equation does not have the option to sink that many skill points into it. And yes, when I see a proto amarr sentinel I can and DO run at him with a mh82, and I succeed, because the infantry portion of this game isnt horrendously unbalanced, and unlike the rep/hardener madruger the amarr sentinel can be ******* killed. "tank is not going to stop you from winning" Wow. Thats funny because Ive seen single tanks effectively win the game for their team just by denying strategic open ground to the enemy team while providing support fire into a bunch of buildings/objective/etc from behind. I see it alot in fact, quite a bit more now that the madruger can literally not be killed by anything less than four proto AV hitting it at exactly the same time. But its cool, keep pretending tanks are fine so that everyone can tell that you're completely out of touch with what balance looks like.
If you really believe that, then go run bush and thatll solve your problem.
All suits proto at one time or another, respec #23
Vics MAXED
Alts-Ass. AK.0/Sent Mk.0/Comm. Gk.0,Mk.0
Ish AFG=NP
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Stormblade Green
KnightKiller's inc.
61
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 18:11:00 -
[68] - Quote
It would be interesting if Breach FGs actually moderately override those hardeners....... By override I mean ignore some of the hardener.....
One might say... I'm very skilled... yet I'm his apprentice... So what does that say about my mentor?
|
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
5467
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 18:14:00 -
[69] - Quote
Michael Epic wrote:Everything Dies wrote:A double-hardened armor tank is all but invincible while the hardeners are active; once down, however, it's going to be paper-thin. This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety. So its safe to say that the whole entirety of the tankers in the game are now hit and run sissies?
If tanks weren't so expensive, tankers might be a bit more brave about it.
Just my advanced fitting is costing 600k.
Usually banned for being too awesome.
|
Thumb Green
The Valyrian Mercenary Army
2188
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 18:20:00 -
[70] - Quote
Stormblade Green wrote:It would be interesting if Breach FGs actually moderately override those hardeners....... By override I mean ignore some of the hardener.....
Hell, the breach should completely ignore hardeners with how long you have to fcking sit there while the damn thing charges.
Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty hipster!
Rated [TV-MA]
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1591
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 19:24:00 -
[71] - Quote
Drogan Reeth wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Drogan Reeth wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Lying.
Your HP does drop but a repper will bring it back up so while it takes no damage it is repping.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 The point is 3 ppl shooting at the tank became worthless. Then the tank ran to the red line and the AV ppl sat around with fingers up thier bum, again worthless. Until the tank returned, but his hardners where back up now, again the 3 ppl shot hopelessly till they ran out of ammo. That's stupid game play. I run with 2 gunners in my HAV. It should take 3 people to try and combat me. So he pops out with the hardeners back on, that is smart piloting, do you really expect pilots to dual AV which can pop a basic HAV with no hardener on in about a clip? AV has had its fun in the sun for about 2.5 years and still does where DS are concerned, AV is not the be all and end all button that it currently is. Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 But 3 ppl can't combat you. One side is invincible the other is not.
It is the only way tankers are happy. Look, they have near invincibility and blasters are murderous again and they think this is fair. I'm OK with the changes just to shut the crybabies up and because killing them is really fun again, not just a fair fight where the better player wins like it was.
Because, that's why.
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HOLY PERFECTION
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
78
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 19:28:00 -
[72] - Quote
5 hardeners, continuous hardening
I WILL WIN... DESTINY
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
4380
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 19:49:00 -
[73] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Michael Epic wrote:Everything Dies wrote:A double-hardened armor tank is all but invincible while the hardeners are active; once down, however, it's going to be paper-thin. This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety. So its safe to say that the whole entirety of the tankers in the game are now hit and run sissies? If tanks weren't so expensive, tankers might be a bit more brave about it. Just my advanced fitting is costing 600k. But yea, at that cost I feel pretty justified at having a thick layer of armor for a little while. And it's not like the infantry scum have any problems dedicating 8 people to AV at once to kill a single tank so I don't see much of a problem. I mean, god forbid they actually call in their own tank. Why, that would involve actual risk. We simply can't put the plebs in that position.
1.1mil and if JLAV are about i need a second player to be on the map consistantly watching out and directing me away from the JLAV or towards it so i can kill it before it kills be and the kicker is the JLAV require no skill and next to no ISK.
If it is swarms same as above.
If its AV nades same as above.
FG/PLC still not used that much but it requires aim.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17793
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 20:10:00 -
[74] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Michael Epic wrote:Everything Dies wrote:A double-hardened armor tank is all but invincible while the hardeners are active; once down, however, it's going to be paper-thin. This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety. So its safe to say that the whole entirety of the tankers in the game are now hit and run sissies? If tanks weren't so expensive, tankers might be a bit more brave about it. Just my advanced fitting is costing 600k. But yea, at that cost I feel pretty justified at having a thick layer of armor for a little while. And it's not like the infantry scum have any problems dedicating 8 people to AV at once to kill a single tank so I don't see much of a problem. I mean, god forbid they actually call in their own tank. Why, that would involve actual risk. We simply can't put the plebs in that position.
I don't know about that. My style of tanking hasn't changed between the patches. I'll always stick around as long as I can, retreat, then re-engage from another angle or when I feel ready.
E.G - On the Train Car/Garage Map I was rolling around in a Madrugar Gk.0 [cuz I can **** you] and three infantrymen jumped up on top of one of those buildings over looking the two medium sockets at the back of the map and the road that connects them.
I was skulking around behind the lower socket shooting up at them to no avail.....so I roll right through the centre of the map [the train cars] loops around by their redline and end up partially on that hill behind them. 3 AV would have wrecked me on open ground from the position they had, so I flanked them, and scored three kills out of them. S
Sure there were 3 players but I outplayed them.
It's not really about being brave as opposed to knowing the limits of your fitting and the capability of AV when your hardeners are on cool down.
Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you.
Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
|
Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1591
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 23:07:00 -
[75] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Sadly its cuz you AV guys have cried for so long to get tanks nerfed.. Too bad you don't get a free 150 WP anymore you actually have to work for it. Imagine that, actually having to use teamwork for once.
Kind of ironic coming from the tanker side. What teamwork does tanks need now?
Because, that's why.
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Ronin Merc
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
The Ditanian Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 23:12:00 -
[76] - Quote
Tanks are virtually unkillable. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17795
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 23:31:00 -
[77] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Sadly its cuz you AV guys have cried for so long to get tanks nerfed.. Too bad you don't get a free 150 WP anymore you actually have to work for it. Imagine that, actually having to use teamwork for once. Kind of ironic coming from the tanker side. What teamwork does tanks need now?
Do you know how impossibly difficult it is to take down a Hardened, Repped Armour Tank with only an Ion Cannon.....really ******* difficult aright.
Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you.
Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
1178
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 01:28:00 -
[78] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:KA24DERT wrote:The problem with the hardener change is that hit+run has always been one of the best play styles for tanks. Now during the "Hit" portion of the hit and run, tanks can do what they want unless alpha'd by 2-3 dedicated AV users.
The risk for tankers is near an all time low with this patch. Then drive a tank and tell us how low-risk it is. Don't come crying back to the forums when you get blapped by another tank. Some dropsuit fittings can also deal enough damage in one hit, that activating the hardeners afterwards is pointless. If you decide to engage with hardeners active for "just in case" you will be at a disadvantage as soon as the shielding goes down. Tanks have always been the best tank hunters, that risk is about the same. Your risk against AV is at an all time low. You can dip into infantry, hardeners active, blap away, and run away before your hardeners run out with minimal risk. Yeah, you'll be at a disadvantage when your hardeners expire.... big whoop! A tank's speed lets it determine the terms of engagement.
The infantry can also see you coming, and decide not to get into your line of fire. I do that all the time.
You either have to be ignorant of your environment, distracted by enemy suits, or intentionally run in front of a tank to be killed by one.
There is no place on the map, other than the wide open passages, that a tank can try to engage me without my consent. I can deny them any LOS to me just by walking around an object. It's practically like full invincibility vs tanks.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
|
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
542
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 15:54:00 -
[79] - Quote
Shade Lert wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Shade Lert wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Sadly its cuz you AV guys have cried for so long to get tanks nerfed.. Too bad you don't get a free 150 WP anymore you actually have to work for it. Imagine that, actually having to use teamwork for once. Yeah we cried so long for them to get nerfed we had to deal with triple rep madrugers for months, then nearly invincible gunnlogis for months, then completely invincible rep/hardener madrugers in this update. I guess we can keep bitching though, since you still dont have a button that just kills everything on the map yet. Maybe you guys will finally think its balanced once hotfix freddy comes out and that module gets implemented. Meanwhile tankers still have the gall to sit there and imply that AV is overpowered, when it never has been as long as I've been playing. Always with you its: well you just have to use proto swarms, well you just need to use a min commando, well you just need prof 5, well you just need to hit the weak spot, well you just need to blah blah blah. Its unreal all the contortions you tell everyone else to go through just so you can keep believing tanks are not an absurdly overpowered crutch for cunts to abuse. mad/10, would rage again. Really mate? so my tank ive poured all my sp 35 mill into to get my fittings upgrades, my mods upgraded, and my weapons upgraded shouldn't be hard to kill for a red dot using a weapon that hes put maybe a million sp into? thats like saying a red dot with a militia light should be able to kill a proto sentinel. chances are your running a few different proto suits, so your sp has been spread out, you havnt speced nearly as heavily into a single role as i have into tanks. now if you had speced into a guy meant soly fer av and you couldnt kill tanks id be surprised. dont be P.OED because you took one of your suits, threw a AV weapon on it, and and still cant kill tanks. far as im concerned, if you dont have a cal sent with forge, minmando with swarms, or galmando with PLC, you cant complain because you are not wanting to be av, your wanting to get easy points. if you were really wanting to be a AV style player, you would have speced more heavily into av so you could over power tanks. and btw, y do you think you should have to use a proto AV weapon to kill proto tanks? when you see a proto amarr sent do you run at him with a mh82? and btw, its a team game, using teamwork might help to mate, instead of being another blue dot. run with a sqd, get em all to use av, youll have no issue killing that tank. EDIT: and really, most of the time if not all the time a tank is not going to stop you from winning, just hack the objective and get links around the area, most objectives are inside buildings or overhead where tanks cant see/get. and one other thing before i sign off, how is a proto tank stomping anything different from a team proto stomping with proto min/amarr assaults and cal scts?ive nvr see a single tank redline a enemy team, but ive sure as hell seen proto stompers redline teams multiple times in a row. I have min commando, I do use team work, Im using proto AV, armor madrugers are still invincible right now with their hardeners up, gunnlogis are still a huge pain in the ass to kill. Balancing by skill points allocated is completely ******** if one side of an equation does not have the option to sink that many skill points into it. And yes, when I see a proto amarr sentinel I can and DO run at him with a mh82, and I succeed, because the infantry portion of this game isnt horrendously unbalanced, and unlike the rep/hardener madruger the amarr sentinel can be ******* killed. "tank is not going to stop you from winning" Wow. Thats funny because Ive seen single tanks effectively win the game for their team just by denying strategic open ground to the enemy team while providing support fire into a bunch of buildings/objective/etc from behind. I see it alot in fact, quite a bit more now that the madruger can literally not be killed by anything less than four proto AV hitting it at exactly the same time. But its cool, keep pretending tanks are fine so that everyone can tell that you're completely out of touch with what balance looks like. If you really believe that, then go run bush and thatll solve your problem.
Funny story, I have been.
|
Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
1009
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 15:59:00 -
[80] - Quote
Notice how these threads degenerate into a shouting match as soon as someone says "it should take X amount of people to kill me"... reminds me of the good ol' 1.7 days.... aaaah the memories.... |
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8256
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 16:56:00 -
[81] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:This is actually what Rattati was proposing way back with the wave of opportunity--a tank should briefly be able to come in and dominate things before having to withdraw to safety.
Rattati had nothing to do with "waves of opportunity" ...1.7 was all Wolfman.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
|
Balistyc Farshot
The Exemplars
114
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 17:28:00 -
[82] - Quote
I think the balancing should be to firstly dedicate the blaster to be Anti personnel or AV. Stop this junk about the main cannon being for infantry and AV, that is garbage. Go review a real tank's specs. Make the main gun not for infantry or if it is, then make it solely for infantry (like the rail gun is for AV). The small turrets should be for infantry, I hate still seeing single pilots rolling around stomping solo in their blaster tanks. Plus the blaster buff was not needed!
The other way to fix the solo tanker being a pain and making a game not fun, is to require another pilot to be the gunner. Then you don't have a solo driver stomping a match in his proto tank solo. The solo tanks should have gaping wholes in their tanking meta to counter the solo gunner models. That was the believed line of thinking on the hulls. A solo railgun tank would only have half the modules of a standard 3 seater or have to give up on highs and lows.
The conversation about forging a tank in the sweet spot is not valid. You get one shot that way, the forge guns are so well balanced with the charge up times and anchoring movement while charging, if you get double tapped in the weak spot, you aren't paying attention or you don't know how to drive. I do the AFG and just wow, you get rolled compared to swarming on a scout with blues (way safer). Plus I can use a nano or REs. The FG is dying very quickly due to being on a building being so much less safe now.
Now to start shotgunning and REing again, everyone will love this play style. Face Palm!
|
MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2420
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 17:30:00 -
[83] - Quote
Drogan Reeth wrote:That makes for very ****** game play. Because you spawn in as AV and shoot at the tank hopelessly doing nothing. Then the tank runs to the other side of the map and you're stuck there again doing nothing cause there's now nothing to shoot at.
Translation: "It's unfun because I don't get to insta-kill vehicles".
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Balistyc Farshot
The Exemplars
114
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 17:43:00 -
[84] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:KA24DERT wrote:The problem with the hardener change is that hit+run has always been one of the best play styles for tanks. Now during the "Hit" portion of the hit and run, tanks can do what they want unless alpha'd by 2-3 dedicated AV users.
The risk for tankers is near an all time low with this patch. Your risk against AV is at an all time low. You can dip into infantry, hardeners active, blap away, and run away before your hardeners run out with minimal risk. Yeah, you'll be at a disadvantage when your hardeners expire.... big whoop! A tank's speed lets it determine the terms of engagement. The infantry can also see you coming, and decide not to get into your line of fire. I do that all the time. You either have to be ignorant of your environment, distracted by enemy suits, or intentionally run in front of a tank to be killed by one. There is no place on the map, other than the wide open passages, that a tank can try to engage me without my consent. I can deny them any LOS to me just by walking around an object. It's practically like full invincibility vs tanks. Edit: Risk VS unskilled AV is at a low. Risk VS infantry that actually took the time to put SP into weapons and suits, is still acceptably high. A forge gunner with SP and Skill is a death sentence for even a hardened tank, and high end swarm fits can repel any tank from the combat field. If you want Militia swarms to be effective against a tank that has 12 different skill sets maxed out, then you are barking up the wrong tree. An AV user with the skills into the Weapon, the Suit, and the assistant Modules, should be a threat to Investment tanks. Someone who just picks up a weapon to spam around, should not.... aside from forge guns, which should be at least somewhat useful as a deterrent even at the basic level, because they require both aim, and a heavy suit. Consequentially... I also believe that if the tank does not have much investment, that Militia swarms should be of consideration to the pilot. Investment vs Investment should be somewhat on par, even though tanks always have to have 3-4x what AV does.
Ok, you aren't a heavy and never ran a Forge gun. They are the most difficult gun in the game to score kills with, hands down. If you as a tank get bapped and you have hardners you tip your hat entirely to that heavy. Heavies are slower than tanks, require charge up time to do minimal damage to tanks, require spot on aim, have 4 shots to reload, and they can't walk while charging (Hamster curbs suck with a charged forge gun).
I saw someone mention the breach. That thing is useless with the charge up time required. Plus any heavy with a Forge gun has only a side arm to defend themselves. Yeah, they have the risk reward thing down. Plus the sweet spot is on the back of a tank. Yeah, that heavy will chase you down or maneuver (Sarcasm).
JLAV - The LAV is paper mache now so no complaining about that. Yes they are BPOs but the clone is dedicated to dying in a flaming wreck, to maybe kill you. Do you have that commitment in a tank? Have someone on your side shoot the JLAV with a mass driver and it will set off the REs. It is really fun.
Now to start shotgunning and REing again, everyone will love this play style. Face Palm!
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Mejt0
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1148
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Posted - 2015.03.24 18:04:00 -
[85] - Quote
Noo... whaaat? It can't beee, cmon. It's not like they are invisible to damage, right?
*whisper from commander* good work.. they don't have a clue. Keep going, over *
Yea, they're fine in their own broken way. Umm that's not what i wanted to say. Act like you didn't read this.
*whisper to commander* i fked up, i fked up. Backup plan *
[...] *whisper to myself* .. he's gonna fire me.. *
Caldari Hero
Loyal To The State
Mejt0 Sale List
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Operative 1174 Uuali
Y.A.M.A.H
536
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Posted - 2015.03.24 19:31:00 -
[86] - Quote
Drogan Reeth wrote:Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Drogan Reeth wrote:That makes for very ****** game play. Because you spawn in as AV and shoot at the tank hopelessly doing nothing. Then the tank runs to the other side of the map and you're stuck there again doing nothing cause there's now nothing to shoot at. Then you must be smart amd actually work for your kill. Go to the other side of the map where you know the tank's path of retreat will be and viola, a kill you can be proud of instead of scrubbing it. Tanks usually make predictable patrols around the map. Stop making silly excuses' for bad game play.
It is not bad game play when infantry can now vault to the stars and have tons of buildings from which to fire down from with impunity. Swarms have been buffed to hell as is. They are stronger than they have been or ever were. Still this AV b*tching? When will it end.
You are not using the game mechanics to your advantage. You will not get your easy mode now so deal with it.
All tankers ever asked for was for a tank to be a goddam tank!
Death is a serious businessGǪ So is running a shoddy, half-baked game company.
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The Attorney General
2886
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Posted - 2015.03.24 19:38:00 -
[87] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:
I have min commando, I do use team work, Im using proto AV, armor madrugers are still invincible right now with their hardeners up, gunnlogis are still a huge pain in the ass to kill. Balancing by skill points allocated is completely ******** if one side of an equation does not have the option to sink that many skill points into it.
Straight up, you are talking trash.
Min commando with proto swarms and AV nades can cut through a dual rep maddy with two hardeners on. You just have to get close enough to chuck those grenades instead of sitting on a rooftop 200m away farming +75s.
So many AV bads do exactly that. Sit as far away as they can get a lock and just lob swarms in until they run dry.
Want to fight a tank? Grow some balls first.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
763
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Posted - 2015.03.24 20:38:00 -
[88] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
I have min commando, I do use team work, Im using proto AV, armor madrugers are still invincible right now with their hardeners up, gunnlogis are still a huge pain in the ass to kill. Balancing by skill points allocated is completely ******** if one side of an equation does not have the option to sink that many skill points into it.
Straight up, you are talking trash. Min commando with proto swarms and AV nades can cut through a dual rep maddy with two hardeners on. You just have to get close enough to chuck those grenades instead of sitting on a rooftop 200m away farming +75s. So many AV bads do exactly that. Sit as far away as they can get a lock and just lob swarms in until they run dry. Want to fight a tank? Grow some balls first.
Commandos cant use AV nades, and from 200 meters you can't get a lock. 2 hardeners = 74.76% reduction in damage. with a double damage modded level 5 minmando and a proficiency 5 swarm launcher, it does 2072 damage to armour. Those 2 Hardeners are reducing the damage dealt by 1549. So it can rep through the damage it receives from any single swarmer. Even 2 minmandos would have trouble with that. A part of me thinks you havent played in a while if you dont know this stuff already. |
Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
763
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Posted - 2015.03.24 20:43:00 -
[89] - Quote
Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Drogan Reeth wrote:Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Drogan Reeth wrote:That makes for very ****** game play. Because you spawn in as AV and shoot at the tank hopelessly doing nothing. Then the tank runs to the other side of the map and you're stuck there again doing nothing cause there's now nothing to shoot at. Then you must be smart amd actually work for your kill. Go to the other side of the map where you know the tank's path of retreat will be and viola, a kill you can be proud of instead of scrubbing it. Tanks usually make predictable patrols around the map. Stop making silly excuses' for bad game play. It is not bad game play when infantry can now vault to the stars and have tons of buildings from which to fire down from with impunity. Swarms have been buffed to hell as is. They are stronger than they have been or ever were. Still this AV b*tching? When will it end. You are not using the game mechanics to your advantage. You will not get your easy mode now so deal with it. All tankers ever asked for was for a tank to be a goddam tank!
Can you tell me when swarms were buffed to hell? cos i think i missed it. You clearly dont remember the days when swarms could lock on from 400m away and could deal near 3000 damage to an armour tank in one volley. So please stop saying AV people are crying because it just isnt the case. When 2 hardeners can make a tank take almost 75% less damage for nearly a minute there is a balance issue.
The tank could drive off before the hardeners end, come back 30 seconds later and do the exact same thing all over again. I'm for this waves of opportunity thing but when a tank is near invincible it ceases to be a wave and becomes a tsunami. |
KA24DERT
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
1112
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Posted - 2015.03.24 21:42:00 -
[90] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:The Attorney General wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
I have min commando, I do use team work, Im using proto AV, armor madrugers are still invincible right now with their hardeners up, gunnlogis are still a huge pain in the ass to kill. Balancing by skill points allocated is completely ******** if one side of an equation does not have the option to sink that many skill points into it.
Straight up, you are talking trash. Min commando with proto swarms and AV nades can cut through a dual rep maddy with two hardeners on. You just have to get close enough to chuck those grenades instead of sitting on a rooftop 200m away farming +75s. So many AV bads do exactly that. Sit as far away as they can get a lock and just lob swarms in until they run dry. Want to fight a tank? Grow some balls first. Commandos cant use AV nades, and from 200 meters you can't get a lock. 2 hardeners = 74.76% reduction in damage. with a double damage modded level 5 minmando and a proficiency 5 swarm launcher, it does 2072 damage to armour. Those 2 Hardeners are reducing the damage dealt by 1549. So it can rep through the damage it receives from any single swarmer. Even 2 minmandos would have trouble with that. A part of me thinks you havent played in a while if you dont know this stuff already.
Funny you say that, I was in that exact situation yesterday, we set up an ambush with 2 minmandos with ADV and PRO swarms against an armor madrugar.
The tank escaped.
I guess we needed a 3rd Minmando with 2 damage mods.
BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS | Mass Driver Advocate
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Alena Ventrallis
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
2798
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Posted - 2015.03.24 21:49:00 -
[91] - Quote
Drogan Reeth wrote:That makes for very ****** game play. Because you spawn in as AV and shoot at the tank hopelessly doing nothing. Then the tank runs to the other side of the map and you're stuck there again doing nothing cause there's now nothing to shoot at.
You may have to stay in an AV fit instead of switching to it for 2 minutes out of a match. I don't feel particularly bad about this.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
1181
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Posted - 2015.03.25 02:01:00 -
[92] - Quote
Balistyc Farshot wrote:
Ok, you aren't a heavy and never ran a Forge gun. They are the most difficult gun in the game to score kills with, hands down. If you as a tank get bapped and you have hardners you tip your hat entirely to that heavy. Heavies are slower than tanks, require charge up time to do minimal damage to tanks, require spot on aim, have 4 shots to reload, and they can't walk while charging (Hamster curbs suck with a charged forge gun).
I saw someone mention the breach. That thing is useless with the charge up time required. Plus any heavy with a Forge gun has only a side arm to defend themselves. Yeah, they have the risk reward thing down. Plus the sweet spot is on the back of a tank. Yeah, that heavy will chase you down or maneuver (Sarcasm).
JLAV - The LAV is paper mache now so no complaining about that. Yes they are BPOs but the clone is dedicated to dying in a flaming wreck, to maybe kill you. Do you have that commitment in a tank? Have someone on your side shoot the JLAV with a mass driver and it will set off the REs. It is really fun.
Hmm? I'm actually invested quite a bit into a Forge gun. I usually refine my aim by sniping, so tanks are incredibly EASY for me to hit when I do. The only real issues are terrain clipping, which happens with any distanced shot.
I'd also have to assume that you are inefficient with your sidearm? You'd have no real reason to complain about how bad these kinds of fits are otherwise, running a sniper fit, you rely on your sidearm for defense, because the main weapon is no good at close quarters.
Aaaaand....I can directly infer that you are not used to using Forge Guns yourself, because only one type of Forge prevents you from moving while charging. :/
I have yet to meet a tank on the field that didn't run after I hit it a few times with the Militia Forge gun. If you are having a harder time than me, with a forge of superior damage quality, then I assume your aim must be incredibly poor, or you just are not timing your attack.... at all.
JLAV --- A Free vehicle (BPO) with Supply depot explosives, and a militia driver, does not cost anything at all. What investment are you talking about? Such a thing is a valid tactic, yes, but has no investment value.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
548
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Posted - 2015.03.25 03:09:00 -
[93] - Quote
Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Drogan Reeth wrote:Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Drogan Reeth wrote:That makes for very ****** game play. Because you spawn in as AV and shoot at the tank hopelessly doing nothing. Then the tank runs to the other side of the map and you're stuck there again doing nothing cause there's now nothing to shoot at. Then you must be smart amd actually work for your kill. Go to the other side of the map where you know the tank's path of retreat will be and viola, a kill you can be proud of instead of scrubbing it. Tanks usually make predictable patrols around the map. Stop making silly excuses' for bad game play. It is not bad game play when infantry can now vault to the stars and have tons of buildings from which to fire down from with impunity. Swarms have been buffed to hell as is. They are stronger than they have been or ever were. Still this AV b*tching? When will it end. You are not using the game mechanics to your advantage. You will not get your easy mode now so deal with it. All tankers ever asked for was for a tank to be a goddam tank!
That is objectively false for both range and damage of swarms.
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Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
548
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Posted - 2015.03.25 03:12:00 -
[94] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
I have min commando, I do use team work, Im using proto AV, armor madrugers are still invincible right now with their hardeners up, gunnlogis are still a huge pain in the ass to kill. Balancing by skill points allocated is completely ******** if one side of an equation does not have the option to sink that many skill points into it.
Straight up, you are talking trash. Min commando with proto swarms and AV nades can cut through a dual rep maddy with two hardeners on. You just have to get close enough to chuck those grenades instead of sitting on a rooftop 200m away farming +75s. So many AV bads do exactly that. Sit as far away as they can get a lock and just lob swarms in until they run dry. Want to fight a tank? Grow some balls first.
LOL
I know someone else has already pointed this out and quoted but just for emphasis: this is how ******* clueless these people trying to justify these rep/hardener madrugers being so absurdly overpowered, they dont even understand that minmatar commando has no grenade slot. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
548
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 03:14:00 -
[95] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Drogan Reeth wrote:That makes for very ****** game play. Because you spawn in as AV and shoot at the tank hopelessly doing nothing. Then the tank runs to the other side of the map and you're stuck there again doing nothing cause there's now nothing to shoot at. You may have to stay in an AV fit instead of switching to it for 2 minutes out of a match. I don't feel particularly bad about this.
Reality check: if its a madruger I dont even bother switching to AV anymore, its completely futile. |
Vitharr Foebane
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
2261
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Posted - 2015.03.25 05:49:00 -
[96] - Quote
Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:All tankers ever asked for was for a tank to be a goddam tank!
Why do tanks get to be tanks but ANTI VEHICLE CAN'T BE ANTI VEHICLE
PS a tank is a vehicle in case you weren't aware
Amarr Omnisoldier: Assault, Commando, Logistics, Scout, Sentinel at V
My faith is in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
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hold that
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
726
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Posted - 2015.03.25 11:16:00 -
[97] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Lying.
Your HP does drop but a repper will bring it back up so while it takes no damage it is repping.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 Not lying, just not exactly whats happening. As you said, he's dealing damage, but not enough to even matter to regen. He might as well NOT be taking damage at that point. I'm personally fine with it. If a tank pops hardeners and tries to sit on a point, I just drop a Nanohive and start spamming Lai Dais. The tank is going to move.
Laid dais + hive best AV |
Harpyja
Nos Nothi
2351
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Posted - 2015.03.25 13:32:00 -
[98] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:The Attorney General wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
I have min commando, I do use team work, Im using proto AV, armor madrugers are still invincible right now with their hardeners up, gunnlogis are still a huge pain in the ass to kill. Balancing by skill points allocated is completely ******** if one side of an equation does not have the option to sink that many skill points into it.
Straight up, you are talking trash. Min commando with proto swarms and AV nades can cut through a dual rep maddy with two hardeners on. You just have to get close enough to chuck those grenades instead of sitting on a rooftop 200m away farming +75s. So many AV bads do exactly that. Sit as far away as they can get a lock and just lob swarms in until they run dry. Want to fight a tank? Grow some balls first. Commandos cant use AV nades, and from 200 meters you can't get a lock. 2 hardeners = 74.76% reduction in damage. with a double damage modded level 5 minmando and a proficiency 5 swarm launcher, it does 2072 damage to armour. Those 2 Hardeners are reducing the damage dealt by 1549. So it can rep through the damage it receives from any single swarmer. Even 2 minmandos would have trouble with that. A part of me thinks you havent played in a while if you dont know this stuff already.
Wrong. Two 40% resists barely get over 60%. With stacking penalties.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
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Ronin Merc
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
The Ditanian Alliance
8
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Posted - 2015.03.25 13:59:00 -
[99] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:The Attorney General wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
I have min commando, I do use team work, Im using proto AV, armor madrugers are still invincible right now with their hardeners up, gunnlogis are still a huge pain in the ass to kill. Balancing by skill points allocated is completely ******** if one side of an equation does not have the option to sink that many skill points into it.
Straight up, you are talking trash. Min commando with proto swarms and AV nades can cut through a dual rep maddy with two hardeners on. You just have to get close enough to chuck those grenades instead of sitting on a rooftop 200m away farming +75s. So many AV bads ttly that. Sit as far away as they can get a lock and just lob swarms in until they run dry. Want to fight a tank? Grow some balls first. Commandos cant use AV nades, and from 200 meters you can't get a lock. 2 hardeners = 74.76% reduction in damage. with a double damage modded level 5 minmando and a proficiency 5 swarm launcher, it does 2072 damage to armour. Those 2 Hardeners are reducing the damage dealt by 1549. So it can rep through the damage it receives from any single swarmer. Even 2 minmandos would have trouble with that. A part of me thinks you havent played in a while if you dont know this stuff already.
I know right. I was running solo but my entire team was concentrating av to 3 madrugers and they wouldnt get scratched. I was using proto min cammando with swarms and another commando was helping me. Also a forge gunner lended a hand. For the entire battle we only destroyed one tank. Duna survived of course |
Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
768
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Posted - 2015.03.25 14:37:00 -
[100] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:The Attorney General wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
I have min commando, I do use team work, Im using proto AV, armor madrugers are still invincible right now with their hardeners up, gunnlogis are still a huge pain in the ass to kill. Balancing by skill points allocated is completely ******** if one side of an equation does not have the option to sink that many skill points into it.
Straight up, you are talking trash. Min commando with proto swarms and AV nades can cut through a dual rep maddy with two hardeners on. You just have to get close enough to chuck those grenades instead of sitting on a rooftop 200m away farming +75s. So many AV bads do exactly that. Sit as far away as they can get a lock and just lob swarms in until they run dry. Want to fight a tank? Grow some balls first. Commandos cant use AV nades, and from 200 meters you can't get a lock. 2 hardeners = 74.76% reduction in damage. with a double damage modded level 5 minmando and a proficiency 5 swarm launcher, it does 2072 damage to armour. Those 2 Hardeners are reducing the damage dealt by 1549. So it can rep through the damage it receives from any single swarmer. Even 2 minmandos would have trouble with that. A part of me thinks you havent played in a while if you dont know this stuff already. Wrong. Two 40% resists barely get over 60%. With stacking penalties.
First stacking penalty is 86.9% and only reduces the affect of the second hardener by 5.2% so try again. |
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1595
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Posted - 2015.03.26 23:08:00 -
[101] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
I have min commando, I do use team work, Im using proto AV, armor madrugers are still invincible right now with their hardeners up, gunnlogis are still a huge pain in the ass to kill. Balancing by skill points allocated is completely ******** if one side of an equation does not have the option to sink that many skill points into it.
Straight up, you are talking trash. Min commando with proto swarms and AV nades can cut through a dual rep maddy with two hardeners on. You just have to get close enough to chuck those grenades instead of sitting on a rooftop 200m away farming +75s. So many AV bads do exactly that. Sit as far away as they can get a lock and just lob swarms in until they run dry. Want to fight a tank? Grow some balls first.
Not true. I snuck up on a tank, fired my swarms, chucked three Wyrkomi grenades, and he still had almost full armor, he hit hardeners and repped while I continued hitting him with swarms and I couldn't kill him. Prof 4 swarms with the BPO damage mod.
Because, that's why.
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