DUST Search - I thought CCP did not want hardeners to make tanks invincible.

Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:

KA24DERT wrote:

Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:

KA24DERT wrote:

The problem with the hardener change is that hit+run has always been one of the best play styles for tanks. Now during the "Hit" portion of the hit and run, tanks can do what they want unless alpha'd by 2-3 dedicated AV users.

The risk for tankers is near an all time low with this patch.

Your risk against AV is at an all time low. You can dip into infantry, hardeners active, blap away, and run away before your hardeners run out with minimal risk. Yeah, you'll be at a disadvantage when your hardeners expire.... big whoop! A tank's speed lets it determine the terms of engagement.

The infantry can also see you coming, and decide not to get into your line of fire. I do that all the time.
You either have to be ignorant of your environment, distracted by enemy suits, or intentionally run in front of a tank to be killed by one.

There is no place on the map, other than the wide open passages, that a tank can try to engage me without my consent. I can deny them any LOS to me just by walking around an object. It's practically like full invincibility vs tanks.

Edit: Risk VS unskilled AV is at a low. Risk VS infantry that actually took the time to put SP into weapons and suits, is still acceptably high. A forge gunner with SP and Skill is a death sentence for even a hardened tank, and high end swarm fits can repel any tank from the combat field.

If you want Militia swarms to be effective against a tank that has 12 different skill sets maxed out, then you are barking up the wrong tree. An AV user with the skills into the Weapon, the Suit, and the assistant Modules, should be a threat to Investment tanks. Someone who just picks up a weapon to spam around, should not.... aside from forge guns, which should be at least somewhat useful as a deterrent even at the basic level, because they require both aim, and a heavy suit.

Consequentially... I also believe that if the tank does not have much investment, that Militia swarms should be of consideration to the pilot. Investment vs Investment should be somewhat on par, even though tanks always have to have 3-4x what AV does.

Now to start shotgunning and REing again, everyone will love this play style. Face Palm!

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Balistyc Farshot The Exemplars 114	Posted - 2015.03.24 17:28:00 - [1] - Quote I think the balancing should be to firstly dedicate the blaster to be Anti personnel or AV. Stop this junk about the main cannon being for infantry and AV, that is garbage. Go review a real tank's specs. Make the main gun not for infantry or if it is, then make it solely for infantry (like the rail gun is for AV). The small turrets should be for infantry, I hate still seeing single pilots rolling around stomping solo in their blaster tanks. Plus the blaster buff was not needed! The other way to fix the solo tanker being a pain and making a game not fun, is to require another pilot to be the gunner. Then you don't have a solo driver stomping a match in his proto tank solo. The solo tanks should have gaping wholes in their tanking meta to counter the solo gunner models. That was the believed line of thinking on the hulls. A solo railgun tank would only have half the modules of a standard 3 seater or have to give up on highs and lows. The conversation about forging a tank in the sweet spot is not valid. You get one shot that way, the forge guns are so well balanced with the charge up times and anchoring movement while charging, if you get double tapped in the weak spot, you aren't paying attention or you don't know how to drive. I do the AFG and just wow, you get rolled compared to swarming on a scout with blues (way safer). Plus I can use a nano or REs. The FG is dying very quickly due to being on a building being so much less safe now. Now to start shotgunning and REing again, everyone will love this play style. Face Palm!
Balistyc Farshot The Exemplars 114	Posted - 2015.03.24 17:43:00 - [2] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: KA24DERT wrote: The problem with the hardener change is that hit+run has always been one of the best play styles for tanks. Now during the "Hit" portion of the hit and run, tanks can do what they want unless alpha'd by 2-3 dedicated AV users. The risk for tankers is near an all time low with this patch. Your risk against AV is at an all time low. You can dip into infantry, hardeners active, blap away, and run away before your hardeners run out with minimal risk. Yeah, you'll be at a disadvantage when your hardeners expire.... big whoop! A tank's speed lets it determine the terms of engagement. The infantry can also see you coming, and decide not to get into your line of fire. I do that all the time. You either have to be ignorant of your environment, distracted by enemy suits, or intentionally run in front of a tank to be killed by one. There is no place on the map, other than the wide open passages, that a tank can try to engage me without my consent. I can deny them any LOS to me just by walking around an object. It's practically like full invincibility vs tanks. Edit: Risk VS unskilled AV is at a low. Risk VS infantry that actually took the time to put SP into weapons and suits, is still acceptably high. A forge gunner with SP and Skill is a death sentence for even a hardened tank, and high end swarm fits can repel any tank from the combat field. If you want Militia swarms to be effective against a tank that has 12 different skill sets maxed out, then you are barking up the wrong tree. An AV user with the skills into the Weapon, the Suit, and the assistant Modules, should be a threat to Investment tanks. Someone who just picks up a weapon to spam around, should not.... aside from forge guns, which should be at least somewhat useful as a deterrent even at the basic level, because they require both aim, and a heavy suit. Consequentially... I also believe that if the tank does not have much investment, that Militia swarms should be of consideration to the pilot. Investment vs Investment should be somewhat on par, even though tanks always have to have 3-4x what AV does. Ok, you aren't a heavy and never ran a Forge gun. They are the most difficult gun in the game to score kills with, hands down. If you as a tank get bapped and you have hardners you tip your hat entirely to that heavy. Heavies are slower than tanks, require charge up time to do minimal damage to tanks, require spot on aim, have 4 shots to reload, and they can't walk while charging (Hamster curbs suck with a charged forge gun). I saw someone mention the breach. That thing is useless with the charge up time required. Plus any heavy with a Forge gun has only a side arm to defend themselves. Yeah, they have the risk reward thing down. Plus the sweet spot is on the back of a tank. Yeah, that heavy will chase you down or maneuver (Sarcasm). JLAV - The LAV is paper mache now so no complaining about that. Yes they are BPOs but the clone is dedicated to dying in a flaming wreck, to maybe kill you. Do you have that commitment in a tank? Have someone on your side shoot the JLAV with a mass driver and it will set off the REs. It is really fun. Now to start shotgunning and REing again, everyone will love this play style. Face Palm!