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[Question] Why x8 Skill Multiplier for HAV Operation?

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Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5286	Posted - 2015.03.10 07:15:00 - [1] - Quote The Hotfix Echo spreadsheet states that the change from x4 to x8 is to make it in-line with Specialized Dropsuits. However, HAV Operation is for Generalist HAVs (MBT/SHAV), thus the x4 which is in line for Generalist Dropsuits (Dropsuit Frame Operation). Would it not make more sense to keep the HAV Operation at x4, and then the DHAV/UHAV skill for the Specialist tanks be x8 to be in line with Specialist Dropsuit Operation? Discuss. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 18291	Posted - 2015.03.10 08:22:00 - [2] - Quote because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5287	Posted - 2015.03.10 08:59:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Will the UHAV and DHAV have their own separate skills? Or will they too be tied to the HAV Operation skill? I suppose what I expected was a parallel to how dropsuit skills work Racial HAV Operation (x4) branching into --> Racial DHAV Operation (x8) & Racial UHAV Operation (x8) "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 18291	Posted - 2015.03.10 09:26:00 - [4] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Will the UHAV and DHAV have their own separate skills? Or will they too be tied to the HAV Operation skill? I suppose what I expected was a parallel to how dropsuit skills work Racial HAV Operation (x4) branching into --> Racial DHAV Operation (x8) & Racial UHAV Operation (x8) I am not a fan of picking a racial style too early. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17544	Posted - 2015.03.10 09:29:00 - [5] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Will the UHAV and DHAV have their own separate skills? Or will they too be tied to the HAV Operation skill? I suppose what I expected was a parallel to how dropsuit skills work Racial HAV Operation (x4) branching into --> Racial DHAV Operation (x8) & Racial UHAV Operation (x8) I am not a fan of picking a racial style too early. Face palms Yet Drop Suit function in this manner as to vessels in EVE online...... "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."*
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 440	Posted - 2015.03.10 10:01:00 - [6] - Quote hope its just one skill for now i am at lvl 4 hope i can get a grandfather lvl 4 when it goes live
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 919	Posted - 2015.03.10 11:30:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Will the UHAV and DHAV have their own separate skills? Or will they too be tied to the HAV Operation skill? I suppose what I expected was a parallel to how dropsuit skills work Racial HAV Operation (x4) branching into --> Racial DHAV Operation (x8) & Racial UHAV Operation (x8) I am not a fan of picking a racial style too early. i dont understand. if i spec into dropsuit command, i do not unluck every racial basic frame at once. i must skill into each of them separately. but if i spec into vehicles, i can spec into hav operation and unlock everything? does that still sound reasonable if we also amarr and minmatar tanks too? thanks! i love easy mode! can you go back and do that for all the dropsuits too? i really dont want to spec into the all separately lol
Foundation Seldon Heaven's Lost Property 887	Posted - 2015.03.10 12:12:00 - [8] - Quote What are you guys doing, stop arguing for more distinct skill trees to skill into. That we get access to both HAVs and SHAVs with one skill is a good thing. Screw consistency across vehicles and dropsuits, vehicles are inherently less useful and less versatile across all game modes and maps.
Mordecai Snake Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 96	Posted - 2015.03.10 14:08:00 - [9] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: i dont understand. if i spec into dropsuit command, i do not unluck every racial basic frame at once. i must skill into each of them separately. but if i spec into vehicles, i can spec into hav operation and unlock everything? does that still sound reasonable if we also amarr and minmatar tanks too? thanks! i love easy mode! can you go back and do that for all the dropsuits too? i really dont want to spec into the all separately lol It should be like: [x1] Dropsuit Command > [x2] Heavy Dropsuits (unlocks all four heavys) > [x4] Commando Dropsuits (unlocks all four commandos and adds class bonus) > [x8] Minmatar Commando Proficiency (adds racial bonus)
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1839	Posted - 2015.03.10 15:50:00 - [10] - Quote This is the BEST thing , could you imagine everyone who put level 5 into this rolling out in PRO fits .?. the rage would be enormous and people make up things to complain about now , it's too easy and coming from 1.6 .. it's only right in asking in comparison to the fees paid for the usage . You already see the post with bias towards HAV and keeping DS prices the same , it's not right . #NO321TAXFORHAV2ADS/PRODSRATIO Edit: To many people sit on a bankroll of SP's and ISK's ... whoever didn't have could easily , even those with no experience ... so I believe that CCP took the sane approach in this one . #THANKSFORTHESANITYINVEHICLEPROMOCCP Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .

Lorhak Gannarsein Nos Nothi 4422	Posted - 2015.03.10 16:06:00 - [11] - Quote True Adamance wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Will the UHAV and DHAV have their own separate skills? Or will they too be tied to the HAV Operation skill? I suppose what I expected was a parallel to how dropsuit skills work Racial HAV Operation (x4) branching into --> Racial DHAV Operation (x8) & Racial UHAV Operation (x8) I am not a fan of picking a racial style too early. *Face palms Yet Drop Suit function in this manner as to vessels in EVE online...... here it's worth emphasising that Rattati didn't build that part of the tree. for what it's worth I also agree with him. Guys, we need to stop calling MU a 'matchmaker' when it's actually a 'teambuilder'. And I want to play FE:A now. Damn.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4100	Posted - 2015.03.10 16:19:00 - [12] - Quote Skill tree for dropships Vehicle command - Dropships - Assault dropships x6 - Racial assault dropships x8 Skill tree for dropsuits Dropsuit command - Racial light/medium/heavy x4 - Racial Sentinal/commando x8 Skill tree for HAVs Vehicle command - HAV x8 So dropsuits require less SP to skill into and have some of the best bonuses, ADS are far more SP intensive and have terrible skill bonuses to boot and HAV will now be second once specialized hulls are added and we don't even know what skills are if we get any to begin with. Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 9806	Posted - 2015.03.10 16:43:00 - [13] - Quote Rattati, will we get a vehicle command tree respec for this change? Just the command tree, everything else is fine. *As long as 4/5 (80%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP*
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5294	Posted - 2015.03.10 17:37:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Will the UHAV and DHAV have their own separate skills? Or will they too be tied to the HAV Operation skill? I suppose what I expected was a parallel to how dropsuit skills work Racial HAV Operation (x4) branching into --> Racial DHAV Operation (x8) & Racial UHAV Operation (x8) I am not a fan of picking a racial style too early. That's fine if you feel that way, but I find it somewhat odd that vehicle skill progression will remain different from dropsuit skill progression. The lack of consistency is what I find more troublesome. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Aidualc LATINOS KILLERS CORP Dark Taboo 92	Posted - 2015.03.10 17:57:00 - [15] - Quote so.. free Respect to Vehicles skill tree ? -- LKC -- Tomate Pote --
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5298	Posted - 2015.03.10 18:18:00 - [16] - Quote Aidualc wrote: so.. free Respect to Vehicles skill tree ? Actually I doubt it. No skills seem to be changing other than the skill multiplier, which means if you have points in HAV operation, it will likely just deduct SP from your unallocated SP. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Aidualc LATINOS KILLERS CORP Dark Taboo 92	Posted - 2015.03.10 18:23:00 - [17] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Aidualc wrote: so.. free Respect to Vehicles skill tree ? Actually I doubt it. No skills seem to be changing other than the skill multiplier, which means if you have points in HAV operation, it will likely just deduct SP from your unallocated SP. Or the minus SP bug... remember hotfix 1.8 and bad Miltiplier of a dropsuit?, many players got - 1Million SP... after the fix. -- LKC -- Tomate Pote --
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5298	Posted - 2015.03.10 18:42:00 - [18] - Quote Aidualc wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Aidualc wrote: so.. free Respect to Vehicles skill tree ? Actually I doubt it. No skills seem to be changing other than the skill multiplier, which means if you have points in HAV operation, it will likely just deduct SP from your unallocated SP. Or the minus SP bug... remember hotfix 1.8 and bad Miltiplier of a dropsuit?, many players got - 1Million SP... after the fix. Might see something like that happen again, I'm not sure how else they can handle it. I don't think they have the ability to de-skill a specific skill without doing it manually. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 3195	Posted - 2015.03.10 19:12:00 - [19] - Quote I am just curious is the skill itself will actually give any sort of bonus or anything? I feel one of the biggest quality of life changes that CCP could implement quite easily would be to give ALL skills, yes every last one of them, some sort of bonus / reason for training up. I really dislike skills that either A. grant no additional bonus or B. are just flat out useless to spec into past a certain point. Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5298	Posted - 2015.03.10 19:14:00 - [20] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: I am just curious is the skill itself will actually give any sort of bonus or anything? I feel one of the biggest quality of life changes that CCP could implement quite easily would be to give ALL skills, yes every last one of them, some sort of bonus / reason for training up. I really dislike skills that either A. grant no additional bonus or B. are just flat out useless to spec into past a certain point. I certainly hope so. The last thing we need is another skills which has levels that offer no benefit. Every level of every skill should offer some level of benefit. Every single SP a player spends should feel rewarding. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 445	Posted - 2015.03.10 19:20:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. A Since Dust's introduction, there's always been a large, outspoken portion of players around who agonize when they encounter a difficult progression in their games, and are happy with a game only when it's as easy to complete as the 9-hours-to-beat games we've all grown up with on PS3. B ]Since Dust's introduction, the game's originators stated the game was meant to be shamelessly brutal and REQUIRE long (skill tree) grinding to prevent any 9-hours-to-beat experience, and achieve an elaborate X-years-to-complete-a-character-specialty experience. Answering and relenting to the fanatically outspoken feedback/pleas to shorten and streamline (argued by some players as "dumbying down" one of the only 'thinking-shooters' games PS3 may ever have had), always seems to bring initial joy to the people in Item "A", but deteriorates the aim expressed in Item "B"GÇª. GÇªand then soon after, is followed by a string of feedback/requests seeking MORE streamlining, because it STILL won't unlock-my-trophy-prize-in-9-hours-flat by the outspoken players who agonize about how difficult the game-progression is. In a game designed to function thanks to a long-progression, making the progression short and easier tears down the game. I know CCP is always valuing and inviting forum-feedback/forum-input in their game,... but I hope CCP is not willing to erode their game too much to align with forum-riot. In democratic "feedback" there's always the danger of players who don't like someone else's game stubbornly continuing to play it anyway and stubbornly insisting it be remade into a game for THEM instead of just democratically moving on to play the games they do likeGÇª "Wait" for the Hotfix to be inserted before being frightened by "how long the progression is going to be". Many of us who don't spend as much time on the forums as we do enjoying the game, (and so don't generate as many pages in our threads and never sound as "loud" as the objectors)GÇª have adjusted and LIKE the long-progression, have earned our prizes with a satisfaction that a "thinking-shooters" game like this brings, and are ready to grind into whatever 'long-prog' vehicles intrigue us with Echo. Echo is intended to START a new experience (some of us feel it's a "restore" of an old experience we've that was taken away from us over a year ago), and it's not meant to be the COMPLETED experience. It needs player-use before we get too carried away with player-feedback (..that very easily leads to suggestions to rearrange the hotfix before it's even been tried out , we know we're all guilty of escalating into thatGÇª) Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 18784	Posted - 2015.03.11 00:31:00 - [22] - Quote Just becuase eve does it doesnt mean we have to but we have to balance between investement; gains; and diversity and growth. Giving good value to SP without creating a massive grind sink. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17562	Posted - 2015.03.11 00:40:00 - [23] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Just becuase eve does it doesnt mean we have to but we have to balance between investement; gains; and diversity and growth. Giving good value to SP without creating a massive grind sink. This does not explain why we are not breaking down the vehicle operations skills into individual races for the purposes of specialisation. "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5310	Posted - 2015.03.11 00:41:00 - [24] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Just becuase eve does it doesnt mean we have to but we have to balance between investement; gains; and diversity and growth. Giving good value to SP without creating a massive grind sink. It's not even about EVE, its the lack of consistency between dropsuits and vehicles in Dust. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 258	Posted - 2015.03.11 00:55:00 - [25] - Quote Despite the lack of consistency between dropsuit and vehicle skill trees (difference in total branches in each tree) , the vehicle skill tree will probably still provide a considerable grind (10 million SP or more to completely skill in into core skills and some utility skills and 1 or more turrets and at least 1 PRO vehicle, if we get PRO vehicles, I have read a few small comments that we are getting PRO vehicles ) No need to worry too much.
thehellisgoingon MONSTER SYNERGY 343	Posted - 2015.03.11 02:14:00 - [26] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Will the UHAV and DHAV have their own separate skills? Or will they too be tied to the HAV Operation skill? I suppose what I expected was a parallel to how dropsuit skills work Racial HAV Operation (x4) branching into --> Racial DHAV Operation (x8) & Racial UHAV Operation (x8) I am not a fan of picking a racial style too early. We had to pick our race on day 1. And your talking about too early?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 18784	Posted - 2015.03.11 03:21:00 - [27] - Quote thehellisgoingon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Will the UHAV and DHAV have their own separate skills? Or will they too be tied to the HAV Operation skill? I suppose what I expected was a parallel to how dropsuit skills work Racial HAV Operation (x4) branching into --> Racial DHAV Operation (x8) & Racial UHAV Operation (x8) I am not a fan of picking a racial style too early. We had to pick our race on day 1. And your talking about too early? Yet you had the oppertunity to use another race's stuff on day one as well. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5313	Posted - 2015.03.11 03:25:00 - [28] - Quote thehellisgoingon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Will the UHAV and DHAV have their own separate skills? Or will they too be tied to the HAV Operation skill? I suppose what I expected was a parallel to how dropsuit skills work Racial HAV Operation (x4) branching into --> Racial DHAV Operation (x8) & Racial UHAV Operation (x8) I am not a fan of picking a racial style too early. We had to pick our race on day 1. And your talking about too early? That's a pretty silly example, as character race has zero influence over gameplay whatsoever. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
DarthJT5 Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 297	Posted - 2015.03.11 13:02:00 - [29] - Quote We need Racial skill trees. Streamlined is a bad thing, which is why the whole new slots thing is happening. Diversity. There needs to be HAV operation (whatever dropsuit command is) --> Racial HAV (4x) --> Racial Specialised HAV(8x). Each skill needs a bonus that goes with its racial tanking. I. E. Caldari HAV operation would give a 2% bonus to shield recharge rate per level, Gallente a 2% armor repair etc. This is the only option in my mind. Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta. Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year. The awnser is always XT missiles....
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3055	Posted - 2015.03.11 13:57:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Basic frame operation is 4x, specialized suit operation is 8x. Why deviate from that? Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff

Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2562	Posted - 2015.03.11 14:15:00 - [31] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Basic frame operation is 4x, specialized suit operation is 8x. Why deviate from that? We could make it 4x for Basic HAV Operation, and 8x for Specialized, which totals to 12x... -_- Will you complain about anything? You are SAVING SP this way. Jesus ******* christ man... Home at Last <3
DarthJT5 Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 297	Posted - 2015.03.11 14:16:00 - [32] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Basic frame operation is 4x, specialized suit operation is 8x. Why deviate from that? We could make it 4x for Basic HAV Operation, and 8x for Specialized, which totals to 12x... -_- Will you complain about anything? You are SAVING SP this way. Jesus ******* christ man... He has a valid complaint. I would much rather spend extra SP and then have racial skills that give bonuses based on racial tank styles. Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta. Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year. The awnser is always XT missiles....
Lorhak Gannarsein Nos Nothi 4433	Posted - 2015.03.11 14:20:00 - [33] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Basic frame operation is 4x, specialized suit operation is 8x. Why deviate from that? You're getting ~~two~~four frames for the price of one. EDIT: Quit your complaining, you wanker; what you seem to want is four 4x skills; one for Madrugar and Gunnlogi, and one for the solo versions of each. I almost want Rattati to make us pay twice as much SP out of spite. Guys, we need to stop calling MU a 'matchmaker' when it's actually a 'teambuilder'. And I want to play FE:A now. Damn.
Lorhak Gannarsein Nos Nothi 4433	Posted - 2015.03.11 14:22:00 - [34] - Quote DarthJT5 wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Basic frame operation is 4x, specialized suit operation is 8x. Why deviate from that? We could make it 4x for Basic HAV Operation, and 8x for Specialized, which totals to 12x... -_- Will you complain about anything? You are SAVING SP this way. Jesus ******* christ man... He has a valid complaint. I would much rather spend extra SP and then have racial skills that give bonuses based on racial tank styles. Yes. You'll get them when you ACTUALLY HAVE A SPECIALIST FRAME. Guys, we need to stop calling MU a 'matchmaker' when it's actually a 'teambuilder'. And I want to play FE:A now. Damn.
DarthJT5 Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 297	Posted - 2015.03.11 14:29:00 - [35] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Basic frame operation is 4x, specialized suit operation is 8x. Why deviate from that? We could make it 4x for Basic HAV Operation, and 8x for Specialized, which totals to 12x... -_- Will you complain about anything? You are SAVING SP this way. Jesus ******* christ man... He has a valid complaint. I would much rather spend extra SP and then have racial skills that give bonuses based on racial tank styles. Yes. You'll get them when you ACTUALLY HAVE A SPECIALIST FRAME. Yes, and those Specialised Hulls will get extra bonuses based on their role plus their racial tank bonus that comes from th 4x skill. I.E. Cal HAV operation(4x) unlocks the Gunnlogi and the Gladius, and gives a 2% shield recharge bonus per level. You then skill into Caldari DHAV(8x), which unlocks the Falchion and whatever skill bonuses per level. Now, the Falchion would ALSO get the 2% recharge per level from the general racial tank bonus. Why not do the Racial skill tree now, and then add in the Specialised stuff later, instead of revamping the whole thing AND adding specialized stuff later. That way I can start benefiting from my racial skill bonus that we should have never lost now instead of later. Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta. Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year. The awnser is always XT missiles....
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4118	Posted - 2015.03.11 14:43:00 - [36] - Quote If we get HAV x8 which unlocks all 4 races of HAV then the bonus would have to affect all the HAVs which frankly is hard to do unless you damage bonus because PG/CPU bonus should be on engineering/electronics skill books. It would be better if it went Vehicle command - Racial HAV x8 - Specalized HAV x10/12 because it is a vehicle it will be that high i bet. Yes overall it takes more SP to skill into each race but at the basic HAV level it would have a skill for its race because an x8 skill should have a skill bonus, then the specialized hull would get the basic HAV bonus and then its specialized bonus on top. I am wishing that we get useful skills for vehicles but it could be a long shot hence why 1 skill unlocks all 4 races vehicles with no bonus. Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3055	Posted - 2015.03.11 14:48:00 - [37] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Basic frame operation is 4x, specialized suit operation is 8x. Why deviate from that? We could make it 4x for Basic HAV Operation, and 8x for Specialized, which totals to 12x... -_- Will you complain about anything? You are SAVING SP this way. Jesus ******* christ man... That's not saving anything. What will the UHAV and DHAVs be? 12x by itself? ADS is 6x, racial ADS is 8x. I have both Cal and Gal ADS to 5, that's 2.8mil SP each right there. I'll need to throw in another 2.8mil for HAV operation to 5. I think the ADS skill to 5 is 1.8mil SP or so. That's over 10mil so far, on vehicle operation alone. I can't remember what LAV and dropship operation are by themselves, so that's even more SP. It's not saving anything, it's requiring more SP to do what I prefer. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3055	Posted - 2015.03.11 14:52:00 - [38] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: EDIT: Quit your complaining, you wanker; what you seem to want is four 4x skills; one for Madrugar and Gunnlogi, and one for the solo versions of each. No, I just want HAV operation to be a 4x, racial hulls 2x, with UHAV and DHAV being 8x. It's a little different from dropsuits, but then again vehicle =/= dropsuit. I almost want Rattati to make us pay twice as much SP out of spite. Would you cut off your feet because you don't like the way they look? Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
thehellisgoingon MONSTER SYNERGY 345	Posted - 2015.03.11 15:31:00 - [39] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: thehellisgoingon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Will the UHAV and DHAV have their own separate skills? Or will they too be tied to the HAV Operation skill? I suppose what I expected was a parallel to how dropsuit skills work Racial HAV Operation (x4) branching into --> Racial DHAV Operation (x8) & Racial UHAV Operation (x8) I am not a fan of picking a racial style too early. We had to pick our race on day 1. And your talking about too early? That's a pretty silly example, as character race has zero influence over gameplay whatsoever. Said your Frontline suits.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5324	Posted - 2015.03.11 18:02:00 - [40] - Quote thehellisgoingon wrote: Said your Frontline suits. Fair point, but prefit militia suits are not exactly a huge impact on overall gameplay. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17587	Posted - 2015.03.11 18:58:00 - [41] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Basic frame operation is 4x, specialized suit operation is 8x. Why deviate from that? You're getting ~~two~~four frames for the price of one. EDIT: Quit your complaining, you wanker; what you seem to want is four 4x skills; one for Madrugar and Gunnlogi, and one for the solo versions of each. I almost want Rattati to make us pay twice as much SP out of spite. However I don't think many pilots want this to be the case. If I am not mistaken they don't want a stream lined simplistic tree, they would like a skill tree with the same complexity and specialisation as any other in this game. Not a 4 for the price of 1 scenario. "Hell he's even agreed with me in the past but insisted I'm still wrong. It's totes adorbs." Pokey Dravon on Spkr4thDead
DarthJT5 Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 297	Posted - 2015.03.11 21:15:00 - [42] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Basic frame operation is 4x, specialized suit operation is 8x. Why deviate from that? You're getting ~~two~~four frames for the price of one. EDIT: Quit your complaining, you wanker; what you seem to want is four 4x skills; one for Madrugar and Gunnlogi, and one for the solo versions of each. I almost want Rattati to make us pay twice as much SP out of spite. However I don't think many pilots want this to be the case. If I am not mistaken they don't want a stream lined simplistic tree, they would like a skill tree with the same complexity and specialisation as any other in this game. Not a 4 for the price of 1 scenario. This Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta. Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year. The awnser is always XT missiles....
Lorhak Gannarsein Nos Nothi 4439	Posted - 2015.03.12 07:47:00 - [43] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: because this is streamlined, considering the Dropship Skilltree. I listened to the feedback that there was too much of a skillsink to have that tree too complicated. I also did not require additional skills for the SHAV as originally planned. Basic frame operation is 4x, specialized suit operation is 8x. Why deviate from that? You're getting ~~two~~four frames for the price of one. EDIT: Quit your complaining, you wanker; what you seem to want is four 4x skills; one for Madrugar and Gunnlogi, and one for the solo versions of each. I almost want Rattati to make us pay twice as much SP out of spite. However I don't think many pilots want this to be the case. If I am not mistaken they don't want a stream lined simplistic tree, they would like a skill tree with the same complexity and specialisation as any other in this game. Not a 4 for the price of 1 scenario. When there's a purpose to having a streamlined tree more than simply 'because of reasons' I'll accept that. It isn't specialisation when there's nothing to specialise in. When UHAV and DHAV come through, we'll talk, maybe. Certainly until we've full racial parity even in basic frames (for that's what we currently possess) I'm not interested in meaningless 'specialisation' for its own sake. Guys, we need to stop calling MU a 'matchmaker' when it's actually a 'teambuilder'. And I want to play FE:A now. Damn.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 18415	Posted - 2015.03.12 09:19:00 - [44] - Quote When we have bastardized faction parity, as in 4/3 minnie and 2/5 amarr hulls, I will switch the HAV operation to a 4X, and create another 4X tree with faction HAVs. UHAVs and DHAVs would be on top of that with some X multiplier, I guess. Vehicle Command 5 Faction HAV Operation - Bonus to something Faction DHAV - 3 HAV ops required - DHAV bonus Faction UHAV 5 HAV ops requred - UHAV bonus But the Dropship tree is not like that and I believe the stated design goal was to not make you choose so early and allow you to fly both, just not specialize in both unless you wanted to. I am still mixed. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2308	Posted - 2015.03.12 10:43:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: When we have bastardized faction parity, as in 4/3 minnie and 2/5 amarr hulls, I will switch the HAV operation to a 4X, and create another 4X tree with faction HAVs. UHAVs and DHAVs would be on top of that with some X multiplier, I guess. Vehicle Command 5 Faction HAV Operation - Bonus to something Faction DHAV - 3 HAV ops required - DHAV bonus Faction UHAV 5 HAV ops requred - UHAV bonus But the Dropship tree is not like that and I believe the stated design goal was to not make you choose so early and allow you to fly both, just not specialize in both unless you wanted to. I am still mixed. It seems like a lot of legwork to change the skill from 4x now, to 8x, then to change it back to a 4x skill later. Why not just leave it as a 4x skill? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback. 4694	Posted - 2015.03.12 11:10:00 - [46] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: When we have bastardized faction parity, as in 4/3 minnie and 2/5 amarr hulls, I will switch the HAV operation to a 4X, and create another 4X tree with faction HAVs. UHAVs and DHAVs would be on top of that with some X multiplier, I guess. Vehicle Command 5 Faction HAV Operation - Bonus to something Faction DHAV - 3 HAV ops required - DHAV bonus Faction UHAV 5 HAV ops requred - UHAV bonus But the Dropship tree is not like that and I believe the stated design goal was to not make you choose so early and allow you to fly both, just not specialize in both unless you wanted to. I am still mixed. I actually like the way dropships work. I would say leave the HAV at 4x so folks can easily get into the unspecialized tanks. Then have the faction skills. In the long term I would actually mirror this for dropsuits as well. Vehcile Command 5 HAV Operation (at 4x) - Generic Hav Bonus (PG/CPU bonus per level?) Faction DHAV - 3 HAV ops required - DHAV bonus Faction UHAV 5 HAV ops requred - UHAV bonus Not to get off topic but I would then do this with dropsuits: Dropsuit Light Frames-> Faction Scout/Pilot Suit Dropsuit Medium Frames -> Faction Assault/ Logi Dropsuit Heavy Frames-> Faction Commando/Sentiel Give players variety and flexibility early on, but then reward them for specializing into a role. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news


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