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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5286
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Posted - 2015.03.10 07:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
The only difference between STD, ADV, and PRO HAVs in Hotfix Echo is their fitting capacity and what tier of modules they will be able to fit.
Current HAVs can fit almost entirely Proto modules.
It stands to reason that if PRO HAVs will also be able to fit almost entirely Proto modules, then it would cost as much as current HAVs. STD and ADV should be less expensive.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1839
|
Posted - 2015.03.10 16:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Stop exaggerating , current HAV's can nowhere near fit almost all PRO mods , even if you want to talk about Cal HAV's like most try to bash because their use to roaming around in their Gal HAV's and smashing like pre 1.7 .
#STOPTHECALHAVHATE
I think they should be a hefty price but so should the DS's and LAV's .
Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Nos Nothi
4422
|
Posted - 2015.03.10 16:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Stop exaggerating , current HAV's can nowhere near fit almost all PRO mods , even if you want to talk about Cal HAV's like most try to bash because their use to roaming around in their Gal HAV's and smashing like pre 1.7 .
#STOPTHECALHAVHATE
I think they should be a hefty price but so should the DS's and LAV's .
Currently my Gunnlogi is equipped with a Complex Shield Hardener, a Complex Heavy Shield Extender and a Complex Railgun damage mod in the high slots. In the low slots are a Railgun Ammunition module, an Armour Repairer (possibly complex but I think it's an Enhanced light offhand) and a Particle Cannon.
My Madrugar can't fit full proto, even with a CPU mod; it's still great though.
But my Gunnlogi is waaay stronger (assuming my connection holds).
Guys, we need to stop calling MU a 'matchmaker' when it's actually a 'teambuilder'.
And I want to play FE:A now. Damn.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
917
|
Posted - 2015.03.10 16:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think what needs to be kept in mind whilst adjusting prices it that the new tanks will have more slots to fill, and fitting more modules, proto or otherwise, by themselves will already increase the price of tanking.
There should be tiered price tages between the levels of tanks, but hopefully a fully fitted proto tank wont cost more than 750K.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5294
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Posted - 2015.03.10 17:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Stop exaggerating , current HAV's can nowhere near fit almost all PRO mods , even if you want to talk about Cal HAV's like most try to bash because their use to roaming around in their Gal HAV's and smashing like pre 1.7 .
#STOPTHECALHAVHATE
I think they should be a hefty price but so should the DS's and LAV's .
What are you even talking about? My Gunnlogi fits are indeed mostly Proto (Madrugar obviously has fittings problems so I'm not using that as a baseline). Stop the Cal HAV hate? I'm using it as a baseline, how does that constitute me hating on them?
My point is that if my general strength between a current HAV and a Proto HAV in Echo is the same, the price should be the same. Do you find this to be problematic or would you prefer to get the same benefit for a higher cost?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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LudiKure ninda
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
231
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Posted - 2015.03.10 19:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
A fully fited PRO tank should cost around 1 mill isk in my opinion,..and MLT should be at least 150k.
( -í° -£-û -í°)
Send your isk here!
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5298
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Posted - 2015.03.10 19:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
LudiKure ninda wrote:A fully fited PRO tank should cost around 1 mill isk in my opinion,..and MLT should be at least 150k.
Bear in mind that more modules will have to be fit, so even if the hulls remain the same for Pr oto, the cost will actually go up. I dont mind a slight price increase, but the point im trying to make is that Proto hulls should be of a similar price to existing hulls, since STD and ADV hulls will be more restrictive than existing hulls.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
4108
|
Posted - 2015.03.10 19:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
LudiKure ninda wrote:A fully fited PRO tank should cost around 1 mill isk in my opinion,..and MLT should be at least 150k.
But that requires to vehicle to be actually good to use and have an impact on the game.
Right now the EHP will be roughly the same as we have now so i'm paying more for what we already have.
Surya at 1.2mil for the hull, now that was a tank and still compared to todays vehicles it would wipe the floor with them.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3053
|
Posted - 2015.03.10 20:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:LudiKure ninda wrote:A fully fited PRO tank should cost around 1 mill isk in my opinion,..and MLT should be at least 150k. Bear in mind that more modules will have to be fit, so even if the hulls remain the same for Pr oto, the cost will actually go up. I dont mind a slight price increase, but the point im trying to make is that Proto hulls should be of a similar price to existing hulls, since STD and ADV hulls will be more restrictive than existing hulls.
Of course you don't mind a price increase, you don't use tanks.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5300
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Posted - 2015.03.10 20:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:LudiKure ninda wrote:A fully fited PRO tank should cost around 1 mill isk in my opinion,..and MLT should be at least 150k. Bear in mind that more modules will have to be fit, so even if the hulls remain the same for Pr oto, the cost will actually go up. I dont mind a slight price increase, but the point im trying to make is that Proto hulls should be of a similar price to existing hulls, since STD and ADV hulls will be more restrictive than existing hulls. Of course you don't mind a price increase, you don't use tanks.
Shhhh child, don't hurt yourself trying to speak too much. You already tried to insist I don't play the game and I kindly placed your foot in your mouth for that one, so stop trying so hard to be tough and just give it up.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17548
|
Posted - 2015.03.10 20:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Stop exaggerating , current HAV's can nowhere near fit almost all PRO mods , even if you want to talk about Cal HAV's like most try to bash because their use to roaming around in their Gal HAV's and smashing like pre 1.7 .
#STOPTHECALHAVHATE
I think they should be a hefty price but so should the DS's and LAV's .
My Gunnlogi can.
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Nos Nothi
4427
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 01:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:LudiKure ninda wrote:A fully fited PRO tank should cost around 1 mill isk in my opinion,..and MLT should be at least 150k. Bear in mind that more modules will have to be fit, so even if the hulls remain the same for Pr oto, the cost will actually go up. I dont mind a slight price increase, but the point im trying to make is that Proto hulls should be of a similar price to existing hulls, since STD and ADV hulls will be more restrictive than existing hulls. Of course you don't mind a price increase, you don't use tanks.
wow, did you even read what he said?
jesus, and you wonder why tankers have a bad reputation.
Guys, we need to stop calling MU a 'matchmaker' when it's actually a 'teambuilder'.
And I want to play FE:A now. Damn.
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Racro 01 Arifistan
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
512
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Posted - 2015.03.11 01:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
give me back my 2.6mill isk Surya+ fitting and change how tanbks operated pre chromosome (looking at you active armour reps that were awesome) and I swear not to complain about hav vs av again.
by give back I mean its original stats/skills...everything from chromosome.
Elite Gallenten Soldier
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17566
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 01:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:LudiKure ninda wrote:A fully fited PRO tank should cost around 1 mill isk in my opinion,..and MLT should be at least 150k. Bear in mind that more modules will have to be fit, so even if the hulls remain the same for Pr oto, the cost will actually go up. I dont mind a slight price increase, but the point im trying to make is that Proto hulls should be of a similar price to existing hulls, since STD and ADV hulls will be more restrictive than existing hulls. Of course you don't mind a price increase, you don't use tanks. wow, did you even read what he said? jesus, and you wonder why tankers have a bad reputation.
Y'know awkwardly Spkr did admit a couple of weeks back that even he doesn't/didn't use tanks.....
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5310
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Posted - 2015.03.11 01:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:LudiKure ninda wrote:A fully fited PRO tank should cost around 1 mill isk in my opinion,..and MLT should be at least 150k. Bear in mind that more modules will have to be fit, so even if the hulls remain the same for Pr oto, the cost will actually go up. I dont mind a slight price increase, but the point im trying to make is that Proto hulls should be of a similar price to existing hulls, since STD and ADV hulls will be more restrictive than existing hulls. Of course you don't mind a price increase, you don't use tanks. wow, did you even read what he said? jesus, and you wonder why tankers have a bad reputation.
To make it worse he is probably the most extreme example of the biased tanker, and insists that basically anyone more moderate than him doesn't pilot tanks. It's pretty much his go to response to anything that he doesn't agree with. Hell he's even agreed with me in the past but insisted I'm still wrong. It's totes adorbs.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17566
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 01:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:LudiKure ninda wrote:A fully fited PRO tank should cost around 1 mill isk in my opinion,..and MLT should be at least 150k. Bear in mind that more modules will have to be fit, so even if the hulls remain the same for Pr oto, the cost will actually go up. I dont mind a slight price increase, but the point im trying to make is that Proto hulls should be of a similar price to existing hulls, since STD and ADV hulls will be more restrictive than existing hulls. Of course you don't mind a price increase, you don't use tanks. wow, did you even read what he said? jesus, and you wonder why tankers have a bad reputation. To make it worse he is probably the most extreme example of the biased tanker, and insists that basically anyone more moderate than him doesn't pilot tanks. It's pretty much his go to response to anything that he doesn't agree with. Hell he's even agreed with me in the past but insisted I'm still wrong. It's totes adorbs.
Read Sign NOW!
"Hell he's even agreed with me in the past but insisted I'm still wrong. It's totes adorbs." Pokey Dravon on Spkr4thDead
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
18315
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 01:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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John Psi
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
Steel Balls Alliance
1382
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 02:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Agree.
Please support fair play!
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
8374
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 03:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Looks good.
Besides, you can always adjust price if you need to.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3055
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Posted - 2015.03.11 03:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:LudiKure ninda wrote:A fully fited PRO tank should cost around 1 mill isk in my opinion,..and MLT should be at least 150k. Bear in mind that more modules will have to be fit, so even if the hulls remain the same for Pr oto, the cost will actually go up. I dont mind a slight price increase, but the point im trying to make is that Proto hulls should be of a similar price to existing hulls, since STD and ADV hulls will be more restrictive than existing hulls. Of course you don't mind a price increase, you don't use tanks. Shhhh child, don't hurt yourself trying to speak too much. You already tried to insist I don't play the game and I kindly placed your foot in your mouth for that one, so stop trying so hard to be tough and just give it up.
Playing 2 days out of the last 2 months =/= playing 53 days straight.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5313
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 03:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:
Playing 2 days out of the last 2 months =/= playing 53 days straight.
Come again?
Once again, you have no idea what you're talking about. As usual.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5313
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 03:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
That's a rather interesting progression of cost....hmmm well we'll see how it goes I suppose. Thanks for the info.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17572
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 03:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
Costings look good, I like the idea that my tanks might be worth a million ISK again forcing me to do better in matches to not run ISK negative.
Hopefully I get to see UHAV as well to compare roles and costings. I do some love my Heavy Tanks.
"Hell he's even agreed with me in the past but insisted I'm still wrong. It's totes adorbs." Pokey Dravon on Spkr4thDead
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7617
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 05:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
And here I was worried proto HAVs would cost a mil per hull.
Glad I was wrong.
AV
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duster 35000
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
375
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 06:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Really? 682k for a proto hull? Adv is the best hull, slightly less recources, much less price.
Molestia approved
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
18332
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 07:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Really? 682k for a proto hull? Adv is the best hull, slightly less recources, much less price.
That's the point really of the whole DUST 514 philosophy, proto is incrementally better, much more expensive
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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duster 35000
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
375
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Posted - 2015.03.11 07:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:duster 35000 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Really? 682k for a proto hull? Adv is the best hull, slightly less recources, much less price. That's the point really of the whole DUST 514 philosophy, proto is incrementally better, much more expensive
But that's kind of too expensive.
IMO, 350k or 400k would have been better.
Eh, I'll still use it, but the price feels like 1.6 Uprising.
Molestia approved
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5315
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 07:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:duster 35000 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Really? 682k for a proto hull? Adv is the best hull, slightly less recources, much less price. That's the point really of the whole DUST 514 philosophy, proto is incrementally better, much more expensive But that's kind of too expensive. IMO, 350k or 400k would have been better. Eh, I'll still use it, but the price feels like 1.6 Uprising.
To be fair in this case, the Proto hull is 350% the price of a an Advanced hull. Incidentally, Proto dropsuits are 400% the price of Advanced dropsuits.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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duster 35000
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
375
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 07:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:duster 35000 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:duster 35000 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Really? 682k for a proto hull? Adv is the best hull, slightly less recources, much less price. That's the point really of the whole DUST 514 philosophy, proto is incrementally better, much more expensive But that's kind of too expensive. IMO, 350k or 400k would have been better. Eh, I'll still use it, but the price feels like 1.6 Uprising. To be fair in this case, the Proto hull is 350% the price of a an Advanced hull. Incidentally, Proto dropsuits are 400% the price of Advanced dropsuits.
And? 1 mil for a tank...while we still get small payouts.
Molestia approved
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Nos Nothi
4433
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 07:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:To be fair in this case, the Proto hull is 350% the price of a an Advanced hull. Incidentally, Proto dropsuits are 400% the price of Advanced dropsuits. And? 1 mil for a tank...while we still get small payouts.
Don't die.
I am of the opinion that the price is pretty reasonable.
That'd come to about 900k for a full fitting, yeah? 1.1M for full proto inc smalls?
Guys, we need to stop calling MU a 'matchmaker' when it's actually a 'teambuilder'.
And I want to play FE:A now. Damn.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5317
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 08:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:
And? 1 mil for a tank...while we still get small payouts.
Im just saying the ratios between each tier is pretty reasonable, regardless of the absolute cost.
Can crunch numbers all day but I think we'll need to really get our hands on them to see how they perform in-battle to see if its worth the cost.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Lac Nokomis
Corrosive Synergy
RISE of LEGION
76
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Posted - 2015.03.11 08:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:duster 35000 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Really? 682k for a proto hull? Adv is the best hull, slightly less recources, much less price. That's the point really of the whole DUST 514 philosophy, proto is incrementally better, much more expensive
Use advance until your skill level allows you to take full advantage of the marginal benefit of Proto weighed against isk viability. Great to have that philosophy literally written out. I thought it was just number from when the game was first released that nobody ever re evaluated. Thanks! |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17577
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 08:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:duster 35000 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Really? 682k for a proto hull? Adv is the best hull, slightly less recources, much less price. That's the point really of the whole DUST 514 philosophy, proto is incrementally better, much more expensive But that's kind of too expensive. IMO, 350k or 400k would have been better. Eh, I'll still use it, but the price feels like 1.6 Uprising.
Better days mate, just remember the beauty of 1.6
"Hell he's even agreed with me in the past but insisted I'm still wrong. It's totes adorbs." Pokey Dravon on Spkr4thDead
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8961
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 08:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:
And? 1 mil for a tank...while we still get small payouts.
You're also immune to 75% (give or take) of the weapons in the game...
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5317
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 08:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:duster 35000 wrote:
And? 1 mil for a tank...while we still get small payouts.
You're also immune to 75% (give or take) of the weapons in the game...
Let's not turn this thread into a fight over that sort of thing, k?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
921
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 09:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
682,500 isk per hull confirmed, then I am saving my SP because i am no longer getting proto tanks. There no change in slots, and i can go for pure damage on an ADV or pure eHP.
There is no 300% difference in the fitting abillities between tanks, so no need for a 300%+ investment to change a single enhanced module to maybe a pro one.
Dropsuit cost progresion isn't quite the same, because people can still do FW and fit all protoype suit for Zero Isk.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
|
Pagl1u M
Dead Man's Game
1760
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 09:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:duster 35000 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Really? 682k for a proto hull? Adv is the best hull, slightly less recources, much less price. That's the point really of the whole DUST 514 philosophy, proto is incrementally better, much more expensive
Exactly, look at dropsuits. Proto are a Lil bit better than adv and they cost like 3x.
Also,I remember in chromosome HAVs worth 2.5 millions isk.
One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
|
Lightning35 Delta514
48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE
193
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 10:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
They can IN NO WAY fit all proto. I always end up removing turrets. And even still, everything that goes on doesn't fit.
48th Special Operations Force.
Twitter- @48SOF
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5324
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 18:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:682,500 isk per hull confirmed, then I am saving my SP because i am no longer getting proto tanks. There no change in slots, and i can go for pure damage on an ADV or pure eHP.
There is no 300% difference in the fitting abillities between tanks, so no need for a 300%+ investment to change a single enhanced module to maybe a pro one.
Dropsuit cost progresion isn't quite the same, because people can still do FW and fit all protoype suit for Zero Isk.
Which is why there really needs to be a bonus/level so even if you choose not to use Proto, you still have a reason to max out the skill.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
|
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
4121
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 18:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Can you stop calling them advanced and prototype hulls?
They do not increase in slots as you go up tiers, the slot level is exactly the same as basic
They only increase in PG/CPU and ISK
Dropsuits increase in Slots, PG/CPU and ISK - Until vehicles follow that method they are not advanced and prototype
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 |
|
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5325
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 18:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Can you stop calling them advanced and prototype hulls? They do not increase in slots as you go up tiers, the slot level is exactly the same as basic They only increase in PG/CPU and ISK Dropsuits increase in Slots, PG/CPU and ISK - Until vehicles follow that method they are not advanced and prototype Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
What would you suggest we call them then? Standard, Standard Plus Good, and Standard Doubleplus Good?
http://i.imgur.com/EFxtWwm.jpg
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
|
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3055
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 18:35:00 -
[42] - Quote
The price is not worth the HP values.
If the eHP of the next iteration of tanks isn't so good, what are the UHAVs going to have? 10k? That's nowhere near worth the SP or ISK investment. You need to consider those hull prices before skyrocketing the price of the regular hulls.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
|
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
4123
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 18:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Can you stop calling them advanced and prototype hulls? They do not increase in slots as you go up tiers, the slot level is exactly the same as basic They only increase in PG/CPU and ISK Dropsuits increase in Slots, PG/CPU and ISK - Until vehicles follow that method they are not advanced and prototype Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 What would you suggest we call them then? Standard, Standard Plus Good, and Standard Doubleplus Good? http://i.imgur.com/EFxtWwm.jpg
Dropsuits are not tiercided, vehicles still are but actually back when Marauders existed the Surya and Sagaris got 1 extra slot compared to the Gunnlogi and Madrugar.
Also yea plus and double plus is fine by me, i just think that it is lying to pilots saying that they are advanced/prototype when they are not. An increased slot layout is part of going up in tiers otherwise what is the point?
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5326
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 18:56:00 -
[44] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Dropsuits are not tiercided, vehicles still are but actually back when Marauders existed the Surya and Sagaris got 1 extra slot compared to the Gunnlogi and Madrugar.
Also yea plus and double plus is fine by me, i just think that it is lying to pilots saying that they are advanced/prototype when they are not. An increased slot layout is part of going up in tiers otherwise what is the point?
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
Actually if had my way, dropsuits would run off of the exact same principle. Same slots for all tiers, tier determines fitting capacity, not slots. The point of going up tiers is you can fit higher tiered modules. Now this is my personal opinion of course.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
|
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3055
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 18:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Dropsuits are not tiercided, vehicles still are but actually back when Marauders existed the Surya and Sagaris got 1 extra slot compared to the Gunnlogi and Madrugar.
Also yea plus and double plus is fine by me, i just think that it is lying to pilots saying that they are advanced/prototype when they are not. An increased slot layout is part of going up in tiers otherwise what is the point?
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
Actually if had my way, dropsuits would run off of the exact same principle. Same slots for all tiers, tier determines fitting capacity, not slots. The point of going up tiers is you can fit higher tiered modules. Now this is my personal opinion of course.
That's a terrible idea. It won't make suits much better, the differences would be miniscule.
The Type A, B, I and II suits were fantastic. They went up in slots and HP.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5331
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 19:01:00 -
[46] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Dropsuits are not tiercided, vehicles still are but actually back when Marauders existed the Surya and Sagaris got 1 extra slot compared to the Gunnlogi and Madrugar.
Also yea plus and double plus is fine by me, i just think that it is lying to pilots saying that they are advanced/prototype when they are not. An increased slot layout is part of going up in tiers otherwise what is the point?
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
Actually if had my way, dropsuits would run off of the exact same principle. Same slots for all tiers, tier determines fitting capacity, not slots. The point of going up tiers is you can fit higher tiered modules. Now this is my personal opinion of course. That's a terrible idea. It won't make suits much better, the differences would be miniscule. The Type A, B, I and II suits were fantastic. They went up in slots and HP.
I know, you think anything I say is a bad idea, just read True's signature.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
|
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3055
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 19:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Dropsuits are not tiercided, vehicles still are but actually back when Marauders existed the Surya and Sagaris got 1 extra slot compared to the Gunnlogi and Madrugar.
Also yea plus and double plus is fine by me, i just think that it is lying to pilots saying that they are advanced/prototype when they are not. An increased slot layout is part of going up in tiers otherwise what is the point?
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
Actually if had my way, dropsuits would run off of the exact same principle. Same slots for all tiers, tier determines fitting capacity, not slots. The point of going up tiers is you can fit higher tiered modules. Now this is my personal opinion of course. That's a terrible idea. It won't make suits much better, the differences would be miniscule. The Type A, B, I and II suits were fantastic. They went up in slots and HP. I know, you think anything I say is a bad idea, just read True's signature.
Because they are bad ideas. Increase CPU and PG, while keeping the same slots? That is a bad idea. The HP gain would be inconsequential. That would make TTK extremely low. The old suits increased TTK dramatically, and why not? They were quite expensive, and SP intensive to obtain. Vehicles should be no different. Since he's introduce tank destroyers, why should AV still be the best counter?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
|
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
4126
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 19:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Dropsuits are not tiercided, vehicles still are but actually back when Marauders existed the Surya and Sagaris got 1 extra slot compared to the Gunnlogi and Madrugar.
Also yea plus and double plus is fine by me, i just think that it is lying to pilots saying that they are advanced/prototype when they are not. An increased slot layout is part of going up in tiers otherwise what is the point?
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
Actually if had my way, dropsuits would run off of the exact same principle. Same slots for all tiers, tier determines fitting capacity, not slots. The point of going up tiers is you can fit higher tiered modules. Now this is my personal opinion of course.
If you have an extra slot you can put something in there that couldn't be put there before, that adds variety because you can add something new.
If the slots are the same across all tiers then whatever fit you use at STD level will be the same across all tiers which equals cookie cutter fits.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 |
duster 35000
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
378
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 19:08:00 -
[49] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:duster 35000 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:duster 35000 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Really? 682k for a proto hull? Adv is the best hull, slightly less recources, much less price. That's the point really of the whole DUST 514 philosophy, proto is incrementally better, much more expensive But that's kind of too expensive. IMO, 350k or 400k would have been better. Eh, I'll still use it, but the price feels like 1.6 Uprising. Better days mate, just remember the beauty of 1.6
*sniff*
bee-you-tea-full.
Molestia approved
|
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3056
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 19:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:
*sniff*
bee-you-tea-full.
Active reps, more mods. I miss those days.
Back then, tanks could actually take a beating and it came down to experience, rather than who sees who first. That's extremely boring and makes for fights that are far too fast. Throw in AV, and it's no fun at all, because where there's one there's 3. Why use a vehicle?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
|
|
|
duster 35000
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
378
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 19:19:00 -
[51] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:duster 35000 wrote:
*sniff*
bee-you-tea-full.
Active reps, more mods. I miss those days. Back then, tanks could actually take a beating and it came down to experience, rather than who sees who first. That's extremely boring and makes for fights that are far too fast. Throw in AV, and it's no fun at all, because where there's one there's 3. Why use a vehicle?
Eh, ever since the blaster dispersion nerf, its use was severely reduced.
I mean, it needed some dispersion, but ugh, it seems a bit much at times.
I remember the active shield reps.
could have been slightly better, but it made them good.
Molestia approved
|
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3057
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 19:21:00 -
[52] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:duster 35000 wrote:
*sniff*
bee-you-tea-full.
Active reps, more mods. I miss those days. Back then, tanks could actually take a beating and it came down to experience, rather than who sees who first. That's extremely boring and makes for fights that are far too fast. Throw in AV, and it's no fun at all, because where there's one there's 3. Why use a vehicle? Eh, ever since the blaster dispersion nerf, its use was severely reduced. I mean, it needed some dispersion, but ugh, it seems a bit much at times. I remember the active shield reps. could have been slightly better, but it made them good.
Slightly better? They needed quite a buff, along with the shield hardeners lasting a lot longer. 10 seconds was nothing; should've at least been 30 seconds, since they were 60% vs the armor hardeners being 40% or 45% at the complex level.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
|
Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8963
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 19:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Dropsuits are not tiercided, vehicles still are but actually back when Marauders existed the Surya and Sagaris got 1 extra slot compared to the Gunnlogi and Madrugar.
Also yea plus and double plus is fine by me, i just think that it is lying to pilots saying that they are advanced/prototype when they are not. An increased slot layout is part of going up in tiers otherwise what is the point?
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
Actually if had my way, dropsuits would run off of the exact same principle. Same slots for all tiers, tier determines fitting capacity, not slots. The point of going up tiers is you can fit higher tiered modules. Now this is my personal opinion of course. That's a terrible idea. It won't make suits much better, the differences would be miniscule. The Type A, B, I and II suits were fantastic. They went up in slots and HP. I know, you think anything I say is a bad idea, just read True's signature. Because they are bad ideas. Increase CPU and PG, while keeping the same slots? That is a bad idea. The HP gain would be inconsequential. That would make TTK extremely low. The old suits increased TTK dramatically, and why not? They were quite expensive, and SP intensive to obtain. Vehicles should be no different. Since he's introduce tank destroyers, why should AV still be the best counter?
So your argument is that we shouldn't establish a level of fairness through tieracide (something the community has been asking for since closed beta) because of low TTK...? Something that could easily be adjusted through base HP values and weapon damages...? Were you not around when they lowered all the weapon damages by 10% and changed the way proficiency worked to influence bonus toward damage profile instead of just raw damage..?
Give us a real reason why tieracide is a bad idea, because just saying "that is a bad idea" is, ironically, a bad idea.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
|
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3057
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 19:28:00 -
[54] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
So your argument is that we shouldn't establish a level of fairness through tieracide (something the community has been asking for since closed beta) because of low TTK...? Something that could easily be adjusted through base HP values and weapon damages...? Were you not around when they lowered all the weapon damages by 10% and changed the way proficiency worked to influence bonus toward damage profile instead of just raw damage..?
Give us a real reason why tieracide is a bad idea, because just saying "that is a bad idea" is, ironically, a bad idea.
There is no fairness when people that actually use vehicles don't have a say in them. It's people that don't play the game that have the only say. If they do play, they don't use vehicles.
I had no problem with low TTK. It made for interesting battles, decided by who was better being the victor.
Not around? I've been playing since you needed a code for the closed beta. I was playing since the beginning.
Why is it a bad idea? A miniscule increase in HP for starters. That keeps TTK extremely high, which is boring. What would a Cal assault have, 3 highs and 1 low? Guess what, that's 2/3 extenders and/or a precision enhancer, with either a plate or regulator in the one low slot. That's boring, and allows for next to no variety. Other than that, the only thing you could improve would be the light weapon, maybe bumping up the sidearm from STD to ADV even at the PRO level. Plus, wouldn't there have to be a compromise even with a PRO suit, so that you can't run full PRO everything on it?
Bad ideas are bad and I will always say that.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
|
duster 35000
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
378
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 19:30:00 -
[55] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:duster 35000 wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:duster 35000 wrote:
*sniff*
bee-you-tea-full.
Active reps, more mods. I miss those days. Back then, tanks could actually take a beating and it came down to experience, rather than who sees who first. That's extremely boring and makes for fights that are far too fast. Throw in AV, and it's no fun at all, because where there's one there's 3. Why use a vehicle? Eh, ever since the blaster dispersion nerf, its use was severely reduced. I mean, it needed some dispersion, but ugh, it seems a bit much at times. I remember the active shield reps. could have been slightly better, but it made them good. Slightly better? They needed quite a buff, along with the shield hardeners lasting a lot longer. 10 seconds was nothing; should've at least been 30 seconds, since they were 60% vs the armor hardeners being 40% or 45% at the complex level.
Armor hardeners were 25% reduction I believe, I used 2.
Shield hards had long cooldown, 10 sec duration, 30% DR, or 40%
Molestia approved
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5332
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 20:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:It's people that don't play the game that have the only say. If they do play, they don't use vehicles.
To be more accurate Rattati doesn't work with people who act like assholes, but does work with people who are trying to be constructive. If you feel you have no say....
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5332
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 20:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:
Armor hardeners were 25% reduction I believe, I used 2.
Shield hards had long cooldown, 10 sec duration, 30% DR, or 40%
Active Armor was 25%, Active Shield was 30% but the duration was so short you were typically better off running passives at 15% each.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
|
Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8967
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 20:11:00 -
[58] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
So your argument is that we shouldn't establish a level of fairness through tieracide (something the community has been asking for since closed beta) because of low TTK...? Something that could easily be adjusted through base HP values and weapon damages...? Were you not around when they lowered all the weapon damages by 10% and changed the way proficiency worked to influence bonus toward damage profile instead of just raw damage..?
Give us a real reason why tieracide is a bad idea, because just saying "that is a bad idea" is, ironically, a bad idea.
There is no fairness when people that actually use vehicles don't have a say in them. It's people that don't play the game that have the only say. If they do play, they don't use vehicles. I had no problem with low TTK. It made for interesting battles, decided by who was better being the victor. Not around? I've been playing since you needed a code for the closed beta. I was playing since the beginning. Why is it a bad idea? A miniscule increase in HP for starters. That keeps TTK extremely high, which is boring. What would a Cal assault have, 3 highs and 1 low? Guess what, that's 2/3 extenders and/or a precision enhancer, with either a plate or regulator in the one low slot. That's boring, and allows for next to no variety. Other than that, the only thing you could improve would be the light weapon, maybe bumping up the sidearm from STD to ADV even at the PRO level. Plus, wouldn't there have to be a compromise even with a PRO suit, so that you can't run full PRO everything on it? Bad ideas are bad and I will always say that.
I literally have no idea what you're trying to advocate. One minute you say "tieracide is bad and we should have more HP in the suits" and now you're saying "that keeps TTK extremely high, which is boring".
You do realize that Standard/Advanced suits having more slots would mean more HP as a consequence just because they'd be able to fit more modules..? Or are you against that and are in favor of not having more slots..? I really have no idea what you're saying other than "I'm right because I **** tanks and everyone else is wrong because my mom locked me in a closet seven too many times".
Pokey Dravon wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:It's people that don't play the game that have the only say. If they do play, they don't use vehicles. To be more accurate Rattati doesn't work with people who act like assholes, but does work with people who are trying to be constructive. If you feel you have no say....
What this guy ^ said.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17585
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 20:27:00 -
[59] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:duster 35000 wrote:
Armor hardeners were 25% reduction I believe, I used 2.
Shield hards had long cooldown, 10 sec duration, 30% DR, or 40%
Active Armor was 25%, Active Shield was 30% but the duration was so short you were typically better off running passives at 15% each.
I do really miss Passives, I felt they were a good option for players to have and also worth considering implementing to follow the same skill tree design as the EVE passive resistance modules [streamlined] into one skill. They're kind of key to my idealised Amarr HAV fitting.
E.g- Passive Armour Hardeners Operate on the basis of 16.25%, 17.5%, and 18.75% from Basic to Prototype and are modified in efficiency by the skill Armour Adaption [old skill but rather than hull bonuses it applied to resistance module bonuses] by 2% per level.
This means per tier descending from STD to PRO your resistance modules could look like
16.25 * 1.1 = 17.875
17.5 * 1.1 = 19.25
18.75 * 1.1 = 20.625
"Hell he's even agreed with me in the past but insisted I'm still wrong. It's totes adorbs." Pokey Dravon on Spkr4thDead
|
Kaeru Nayiri
Ready to Play
602
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 20:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Dropsuits are not tiercided, vehicles still are but actually back when Marauders existed the Surya and Sagaris got 1 extra slot compared to the Gunnlogi and Madrugar.
Also yea plus and double plus is fine by me, i just think that it is lying to pilots saying that they are advanced/prototype when they are not. An increased slot layout is part of going up in tiers otherwise what is the point?
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
Actually if had my way, dropsuits would run off of the exact same principle. Same slots for all tiers, tier determines fitting capacity, not slots. The point of going up tiers is you can fit higher tiered modules. Now this is my personal opinion of course.
Agreed with the above.
Know what cannot be known.
|
|
|
duster 35000
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
378
|
Posted - 2015.03.11 20:39:00 -
[61] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:duster 35000 wrote:
Armor hardeners were 25% reduction I believe, I used 2.
Shield hards had long cooldown, 10 sec duration, 30% DR, or 40%
Active Armor was 25%, Active Shield was 30% but the duration was so short you were typically better off running passives at 15% each. I do really miss Passives, I felt they were a good option for players to have and also worth considering implementing to follow the same skill tree design as the EVE passive resistance modules [streamlined] into one skill. They're kind of key to my idealised Amarr HAV fitting. E.g- Passive Armour Hardeners Operate on the basis of 16.25%, 17.5%, and 18.75% from Basic to Prototype and are modified in efficiency by the skill Armour Adaption [old skill but rather than hull bonuses it applied to resistance module bonuses] by 2% per level. This means per tier descending from STD to PRO your resistance modules could look like 16.25 * 1.1 = 17.875 17.5 * 1.1 = 19.25 18.75 * 1.1 = 20.625
So, passive armor hardeners were better than shield ones? Of course.
Molestia approved
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5338
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Posted - 2015.03.11 20:42:00 -
[62] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:So, passive armor hardeners were better than shield ones? Of course.
I think he's using it as an example in comparison to the +60% actives we have now.
I could be wrong but I seem to remember that passive shield hardeners were better than armor back in the day?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17585
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Posted - 2015.03.11 20:52:00 -
[63] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:True Adamance wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:duster 35000 wrote:
Armor hardeners were 25% reduction I believe, I used 2.
Shield hards had long cooldown, 10 sec duration, 30% DR, or 40%
Active Armor was 25%, Active Shield was 30% but the duration was so short you were typically better off running passives at 15% each. I do really miss Passives, I felt they were a good option for players to have and also worth considering implementing to follow the same skill tree design as the EVE passive resistance modules [streamlined] into one skill. They're kind of key to my idealised Amarr HAV fitting. E.g- Passive Armour Hardeners Operate on the basis of 16.25%, 17.5%, and 18.75% from Basic to Prototype and are modified in efficiency by the skill Armour Adaption [old skill but rather than hull bonuses it applied to resistance module bonuses] by 2% per level. This means per tier descending from STD to PRO your resistance modules could look like 16.25 * 1.1 = 17.875 17.5 * 1.1 = 19.25 18.75 * 1.1 = 20.625 So, passive armor hardeners were better than shield ones? Of course.
No actually those were just the first workable ideas I could draw out of my head. I made a spread sheet a while back and the shield modules have slightly higher base stats and as such add up to slight greater passive resistances.
If I am not mistaken in thinking my armour passives, thinking more carefully on it now, Armour went 15,16.25,17.5 while shields followed the above values.
"Hell he's even agreed with me in the past but insisted I'm still wrong. It's totes adorbs." Pokey Dravon on Spkr4thDead
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Godin Thekiller
The Corporate Raiders
2964
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Posted - 2015.03.11 21:44:00 -
[64] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Can you stop calling them advanced and prototype hulls? They do not increase in slots as you go up tiers, the slot level is exactly the same as basic They only increase in PG/CPU and ISK Dropsuits increase in Slots, PG/CPU and ISK - Until vehicles follow that method they are not advanced and prototype Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 What would you suggest we call them then? Standard, Standard Plus Good, and Standard Doubleplus Good? http://i.imgur.com/EFxtWwm.jpg
Start rant:
I hate that story. I get the message, but it's just so bad. #FuckNewSpeak
End Rant.
EDIT: I forgot, on topic, yea, thais is the start of tiercide. It's still a tiered system, but it's a start. Now all we have to do is make it to one single hull, and we've got tiercide.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Godin Thekiller
The Corporate Raiders
2964
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Posted - 2015.03.11 21:53:00 -
[65] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:duster 35000 wrote:So, passive armor hardeners were better than shield ones? Of course. I think he's using it as an example in comparison to the +60% actives we have now. I could be wrong but I seem to remember that passive shield hardeners were better than armor back in the day?
They were, which is fine imo. Passives aren't good enough to be used on the speedy but weak Winmatar Hulls, but makes sense for the slower, bombardment type of style Squid HAV's are made for (and why it tickles me that people wish to use them up close and personal).
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5346
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:03:00 -
[66] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:duster 35000 wrote:So, passive armor hardeners were better than shield ones? Of course. I think he's using it as an example in comparison to the +60% actives we have now. I could be wrong but I seem to remember that passive shield hardeners were better than armor back in the day? They were, which is fine imo. Passives aren't good enough to be used on the speedy but weak Winmatar Hulls, but makes sense for the slower, bombardment type of style Squid HAV's are made for (and why it tickles me that people wish to use them up close and personal).
Yeah I don't have an issue with Shield Hardeners/Resistance Amps being a bigger resist than Armor counterparts.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17594
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:07:00 -
[67] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:duster 35000 wrote:So, passive armor hardeners were better than shield ones? Of course. I think he's using it as an example in comparison to the +60% actives we have now. I could be wrong but I seem to remember that passive shield hardeners were better than armor back in the day? They were, which is fine imo. Passives aren't good enough to be used on the speedy but weak Winmatar Hulls, but makes sense for the slower, bombardment type of style Squid HAV's are made for (and why it tickles me that people wish to use them up close and personal). Yeah I don't have an issue with Shield Hardeners/Resistance Amps being a bigger resist than Armor counterparts.
The only real reason I can justify that paradigm on passives is that shield will tend to have a lower total shield HP value than armour..... but in this climate not by much...as such the passives really can't have significant disparities between values.
Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you.
Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5346
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:11:00 -
[68] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:duster 35000 wrote:So, passive armor hardeners were better than shield ones? Of course. I think he's using it as an example in comparison to the +60% actives we have now. I could be wrong but I seem to remember that passive shield hardeners were better than armor back in the day? They were, which is fine imo. Passives aren't good enough to be used on the speedy but weak Winmatar Hulls, but makes sense for the slower, bombardment type of style Squid HAV's are made for (and why it tickles me that people wish to use them up close and personal). Yeah I don't have an issue with Shield Hardeners/Resistance Amps being a bigger resist than Armor counterparts. The only real reason I can justify that paradigm on passives is that shield will tend to have a lower total shield HP value than armour..... but in this climate not by much...as such the passives really can't have significant disparities between values.
Pretty much my reasoning as well.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17596
|
Posted - 2015.03.12 00:27:00 -
[69] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:
Pretty much my reasoning as well.
Additionally when it comes to tiering and acceptable resistance values we cannot have a basic value of more the 20% resistance especially when vehicles are gaining more slots nor can you have significant tier disparities or risk a prototype is necessary mentality.
So I've been trying to keep values, especially those modified by skills, lower than 20% and within a 1.25% per tier difference. Especially with relation when comparing armour to shield.
I figure these are a good idea since we have arbitrarily limited active hardeners to 1 per fitting why not have significantly less effective passives we can still attempt to plug for resistance while active modules are offline without breaking vs AV.
Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you.
Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
18396
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Posted - 2015.03.12 05:51:00 -
[70] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Can you stop calling them advanced and prototype hulls? They do not increase in slots as you go up tiers, the slot level is exactly the same as basic They only increase in PG/CPU and ISK Dropsuits increase in Slots, PG/CPU and ISK - Until vehicles follow that method they are not advanced and prototype Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
wrong
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7618
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Posted - 2015.03.12 06:13:00 -
[71] - Quote
if you don't like 'em don't play 'em.
AV
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
4126
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Posted - 2015.03.12 13:13:00 -
[72] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Can you stop calling them advanced and prototype hulls? They do not increase in slots as you go up tiers, the slot level is exactly the same as basic They only increase in PG/CPU and ISK Dropsuits increase in Slots, PG/CPU and ISK - Until vehicles follow that method they are not advanced and prototype Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 wrong
How?
Can you compare a basic HAV with a prototype HAV and then a basic dropsuit with a prototype dropsuit so we can see any differences in terms of scaling in PG/CPU/Slot layout between tiers.
Disclaimer:
The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2543
|
Posted - 2015.03.12 14:18:00 -
[73] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Can you stop calling them advanced and prototype hulls? They do not increase in slots as you go up tiers, the slot level is exactly the same as basic They only increase in PG/CPU and ISK Dropsuits increase in Slots, PG/CPU and ISK - Until vehicles follow that method they are not advanced and prototype Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 wrong
Agree that we should be worrying about the balance of proto vehicles and their impact on the game, also agree with the pricing structure as a reasonable temporary balancing mechanic.
But a real long-tern concern for DUST and whatever it's long-term incarnation might-be: Any economy coupled to New Eden(and our own current historically-driven ISK imbalances in DUST) will make price structure completely ineffective as a balancing mechanic. I'm sure Rat knows this as well as anybody does.
This is a critical gamplay issue in DUST now and going forward because we have a lobby-match structure and there is no gameplay mechanic that allows players to counter 'unlimited' enemy wealth. No inspired zerg exists to balance the decadent and powerful older entities in the game.
How are we going to balance massive wealth disparities in DUST/Legion? In the long run and even now, to some extent, ISK won't work.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Gabriel Ceja
Ready to Play
93
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Posted - 2015.03.12 17:24:00 -
[74] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at
STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers
This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted.
It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits.
Dam Rattati you just gave my wallet a heart attack with that proto hull price. But yes it's an understandable price.
"Throw on the flux capacitor."
activates fuel injector
"WOOOOOO!!!"
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