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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 378	Posted - 2015.03.11 20:39:00 - [61] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Armor hardeners were 25% reduction I believe, I used 2. Shield hards had long cooldown, 10 sec duration, 30% DR, or 40% Active Armor was 25%, Active Shield was 30% but the duration was so short you were typically better off running passives at 15% each. I do really miss Passives, I felt they were a good option for players to have and also worth considering implementing to follow the same skill tree design as the EVE passive resistance modules [streamlined] into one skill. They're kind of key to my idealised Amarr HAV fitting. E.g- Passive Armour Hardeners Operate on the basis of 16.25%, 17.5%, and 18.75% from Basic to Prototype and are modified in efficiency by the skill Armour Adaption [old skill but rather than hull bonuses it applied to resistance module bonuses] by 2% per level. This means per tier descending from STD to PRO your resistance modules could look like 16.25 * 1.1 = 17.875 17.5 * 1.1 = 19.25 18.75 * 1.1 = 20.625 So, passive armor hardeners were better than shield ones? Of course. Molestia approved
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5338	Posted - 2015.03.11 20:42:00 - [62] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: So, passive armor hardeners were better than shield ones? Of course. I think he's using it as an example in comparison to the +60% actives we have now. I could be wrong but I seem to remember that passive shield hardeners were better than armor back in the day? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17585	Posted - 2015.03.11 20:52:00 - [63] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: True Adamance wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Armor hardeners were 25% reduction I believe, I used 2. Shield hards had long cooldown, 10 sec duration, 30% DR, or 40% Active Armor was 25%, Active Shield was 30% but the duration was so short you were typically better off running passives at 15% each. I do really miss Passives, I felt they were a good option for players to have and also worth considering implementing to follow the same skill tree design as the EVE passive resistance modules [streamlined] into one skill. They're kind of key to my idealised Amarr HAV fitting. E.g- Passive Armour Hardeners Operate on the basis of 16.25%, 17.5%, and 18.75% from Basic to Prototype and are modified in efficiency by the skill Armour Adaption [old skill but rather than hull bonuses it applied to resistance module bonuses] by 2% per level. This means per tier descending from STD to PRO your resistance modules could look like 16.25 * 1.1 = 17.875 17.5 * 1.1 = 19.25 18.75 * 1.1 = 20.625 So, passive armor hardeners were better than shield ones? Of course. No actually those were just the first workable ideas I could draw out of my head. I made a spread sheet a while back and the shield modules have slightly higher base stats and as such add up to slight greater passive resistances. If I am not mistaken in thinking my armour passives, thinking more carefully on it now, Armour went 15,16.25,17.5 while shields followed the above values. "Hell he's even agreed with me in the past but insisted I'm still wrong. It's totes adorbs." Pokey Dravon on Spkr4thDead
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2964	Posted - 2015.03.11 21:44:00 - [64] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted. It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits. Can you stop calling them advanced and prototype hulls? They do not increase in slots as you go up tiers, the slot level is exactly the same as basic They only increase in PG/CPU and ISK Dropsuits increase in Slots, PG/CPU and ISK - Until vehicles follow that method they are not advanced and prototype Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 What would you suggest we call them then? Standard, Standard Plus Good, and Standard Doubleplus Good? http://i.imgur.com/EFxtWwm.jpg Start rant: I hate that story. I get the message, but it's just so bad. #FuckNewSpeak End Rant. EDIT: I forgot, on topic, yea, thais is the start of tiercide. It's still a tiered system, but it's a start. Now all we have to do is make it to one single hull, and we've got tiercide. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2964	Posted - 2015.03.11 21:53:00 - [65] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: duster 35000 wrote: So, passive armor hardeners were better than shield ones? Of course. I think he's using it as an example in comparison to the +60% actives we have now. I could be wrong but I seem to remember that passive shield hardeners were better than armor back in the day? They were, which is fine imo. Passives aren't good enough to be used on the speedy but weak Winmatar Hulls, but makes sense for the slower, bombardment type of style Squid HAV's are made for (and why it tickles me that people wish to use them up close and personal). click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5346	Posted - 2015.03.12 00:03:00 - [66] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: duster 35000 wrote: So, passive armor hardeners were better than shield ones? Of course. I think he's using it as an example in comparison to the +60% actives we have now. I could be wrong but I seem to remember that passive shield hardeners were better than armor back in the day? They were, which is fine imo. Passives aren't good enough to be used on the speedy but weak Winmatar Hulls, but makes sense for the slower, bombardment type of style Squid HAV's are made for (and why it tickles me that people wish to use them up close and personal). Yeah I don't have an issue with Shield Hardeners/Resistance Amps being a bigger resist than Armor counterparts. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17594	Posted - 2015.03.12 00:07:00 - [67] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: duster 35000 wrote: So, passive armor hardeners were better than shield ones? Of course. I think he's using it as an example in comparison to the +60% actives we have now. I could be wrong but I seem to remember that passive shield hardeners were better than armor back in the day? They were, which is fine imo. Passives aren't good enough to be used on the speedy but weak Winmatar Hulls, but makes sense for the slower, bombardment type of style Squid HAV's are made for (and why it tickles me that people wish to use them up close and personal). Yeah I don't have an issue with Shield Hardeners/Resistance Amps being a bigger resist than Armor counterparts. The only real reason I can justify that paradigm on passives is that shield will tend to have a lower total shield HP value than armour..... but in this climate not by much...as such the passives really can't have significant disparities between values. Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5346	Posted - 2015.03.12 00:11:00 - [68] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: duster 35000 wrote: So, passive armor hardeners were better than shield ones? Of course. I think he's using it as an example in comparison to the +60% actives we have now. I could be wrong but I seem to remember that passive shield hardeners were better than armor back in the day? They were, which is fine imo. Passives aren't good enough to be used on the speedy but weak Winmatar Hulls, but makes sense for the slower, bombardment type of style Squid HAV's are made for (and why it tickles me that people wish to use them up close and personal). Yeah I don't have an issue with Shield Hardeners/Resistance Amps being a bigger resist than Armor counterparts. The only real reason I can justify that paradigm on passives is that shield will tend to have a lower total shield HP value than armour..... but in this climate not by much...as such the passives really can't have significant disparities between values. Pretty much my reasoning as well. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17596	Posted - 2015.03.12 00:27:00 - [69] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Pretty much my reasoning as well. Additionally when it comes to tiering and acceptable resistance values we cannot have a basic value of more the 20% resistance especially when vehicles are gaining more slots nor can you have significant tier disparities or risk a prototype is necessary mentality. So I've been trying to keep values, especially those modified by skills, lower than 20% and within a 1.25% per tier difference. Especially with relation when comparing armour to shield. I figure these are a good idea since we have arbitrarily limited active hardeners to 1 per fitting why not have significantly less effective passives we can still attempt to plug for resistance while active modules are offline without breaking vs AV. Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 18396	Posted - 2015.03.12 05:51:00 - [70] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted. It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits. Can you stop calling them advanced and prototype hulls? They do not increase in slots as you go up tiers, the slot level is exactly the same as basic They only increase in PG/CPU and ISK Dropsuits increase in Slots, PG/CPU and ISK - Until vehicles follow that method they are not advanced and prototype Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 wrong "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7618	Posted - 2015.03.12 06:13:00 - [71] - Quote if you don't like 'em don't play 'em. AV
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4126	Posted - 2015.03.12 13:13:00 - [72] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted. It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits. Can you stop calling them advanced and prototype hulls? They do not increase in slots as you go up tiers, the slot level is exactly the same as basic They only increase in PG/CPU and ISK Dropsuits increase in Slots, PG/CPU and ISK - Until vehicles follow that method they are not advanced and prototype Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 wrong How? Can you compare a basic HAV with a prototype HAV and then a basic dropsuit with a prototype dropsuit so we can see any differences in terms of scaling in PG/CPU/Slot layout between tiers. Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2543	Posted - 2015.03.12 14:18:00 - [73] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted. It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits. Can you stop calling them advanced and prototype hulls? They do not increase in slots as you go up tiers, the slot level is exactly the same as basic They only increase in PG/CPU and ISK Dropsuits increase in Slots, PG/CPU and ISK - Until vehicles follow that method they are not advanced and prototype Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 wrong Agree that we should be worrying about the balance of proto vehicles and their impact on the game, also agree with the pricing structure as a reasonable temporary balancing mechanic. But a real long-tern concern for DUST and whatever it's long-term incarnation might-be: Any economy coupled to New Eden(and our own current historically-driven ISK imbalances in DUST) will make price structure completely ineffective as a balancing mechanic. I'm sure Rat knows this as well as anybody does. This is a critical gamplay issue in DUST now and going forward because we have a lobby-match structure and there is no gameplay mechanic that allows players to counter 'unlimited' enemy wealth. No inspired zerg exists to balance the decadent and powerful older entities in the game. How are we going to balance massive wealth disparities in DUST/Legion? In the long run and even now, to some extent, ISK won't work. PSN: RationalSpark
Gabriel Ceja Ready to Play 93	Posted - 2015.03.12 17:24:00 - [74] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Because I still worry about balance of the prototype HAVs, and want them to be consciously committed to battle, not thrown around like candy, we are pricing them at STD/ADV/PRO @ 97,500/195,000/682,500 ISK for all HAV tiers This is below what some tankers felt was right, and above what some tankers felt was right. The CPM was also consulted. It is also a much lower increase per tier than f.ex. specialized dropsuits. Dam Rattati you just gave my wallet a heart attack with that proto hull price. But yes it's an understandable price. "Throw on the flux capacitor." activates fuel injector "WOOOOOO!!!"


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