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Tread Loudly 2
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
68
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Posted - 2015.03.08 00:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry.
I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit.
I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100.
A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage.
I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths.
One question... Were you tripping off of acid while making this thread?
Let's think about this for a second. I have a railgun shooting a projectile at super sonic speeds and it hits a Dropsuit, it shouldn't die just because it's an AV weapon and not a AP weapon?
Then along the lines of frustrating deaths, you have no idea haha if you run infantry all the time. When is the last time you lost 700,000 Isk in 1 life? It happens pretty often whilst in a Team oriented vehicle :)
I Like Tanks, Nova Knives and MagSec SMG's.
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Tread Loudly 2
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
73
|
Posted - 2015.03.08 18:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
ROMULUS H3X wrote:KA24DERT wrote:I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry.
I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit.
I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100.
A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage.
I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. Hhahahahahha, so you want forgers to be almost completely defenseless against other fattys with HMG...LOL 180 direct damage to a clone..... God damn, do you even realize how little that is? The friggen splash does more damage hahahahhahahah SANE values this guy states.... Hahahahhahah you must be mental.. Ohh I remember you... I forged you in the face just the other day! Even more satisfying now that I know you are crying about forge direct shots. Whenever I see you in battle... This is all I am going to do to you. Forge face. Forge face. Forge face.
Why you no just punch him in face?
I Like Tanks, Nova Knives and MagSec SMG's.
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Tread Loudly 2
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
74
|
Posted - 2015.03.08 20:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Tread Loudly 2 wrote:ROMULUS H3X wrote:KA24DERT wrote:I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry.
I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit.
I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100.
A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage.
I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. Hhahahahahha, so you want forgers to be almost completely defenseless against other fattys with HMG...LOL 180 direct damage to a clone..... God damn, do you even realize how little that is? The friggen splash does more damage hahahahhahahah SANE values this guy states.... Hahahahhahah you must be mental.. Ohh I remember you... I forged you in the face just the other day! Even more satisfying now that I know you are crying about forge direct shots. Whenever I see you in battle... This is all I am going to do to you. Forge face. Forge face. Forge face. Why you no just punch him in face? Myofibs?
Of Course
I Like Tanks, Nova Knives and MagSec SMG's.
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Tread Loudly 2
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
74
|
Posted - 2015.03.08 21:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:Kain Spero wrote:KA24DERT wrote:I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry.
I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit.
I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100.
A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage.
I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. I actually think that reducing the prevalence of one-hit kill weapons in the game would actually be beneficial. Also I think the approach of reduced direct hit damage while adding back splash so these weapons can be suppressive would be a balanced way to reduce the direct damage to infantry. Not sure about the specific numbers, but I think the idea has merit. That's my gist. Most of the insta-gibs should go away or be restricted. - Plasma Cannon should be a 3-4 shot weapon with lower overall damage (the jump buff will bring this to the forefront...) - REs should be re-tooled into a trap-only weapon (requiring placement and a 5 second initialization) - Rails and Forges shouldn't be able to 1-shot infantry (but splash should be added to let them still kill/suppress) etc... You're pointing to a more holistic rebalance, but getting the conversation started on "nerfs" is always rough, even when it's painfully obvious. I wish more tankers/forgers would come up with better numbers for what's fair against infantry, but so far it appears that "fair" is 1200 damage.
Well what we tankers/forgers ask is for people like yourself to think "logically" which may not always appeal to you and sometimes won't even appeal to the vast majority.
By thinking "logically" what I mean is that if you are hit by a supersonic projectile even with your advanced armor you shouldn't be able to take a shot and keep on moving, hitting a strafing target or even just a moving target in general takes at least a decent bit of skill not to mention a good amount of knowledge of how to lead a target or guess where they are heading.
If anything is painfully obvious as far as nerfs needing to happen, well to say the least you are looking at the wrong thing to fix... Personally I think that all of the current bugs should be worked out, then newer features/items be added, and finally work out the kinks to make it a level playing (Not a playing field that benefits scrubs and their needs). However the order of this could quickly change if something gamebreaking were to happen.
However this is just my opinion, I'm sure your's is far different from mine...
I Like Tanks, Nova Knives and MagSec SMG's.
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Tread Loudly 2
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
74
|
Posted - 2015.03.08 23:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:KA24DERT wrote:I wish more tankers/forgers would come up with better numbers for what's fair against infantry, but so far it appears that "fair" is 1200 damage. So, when a new player comes into the game, I should tell them "This is a Large Railgun, It's used to kill vehicles. It will take 2-4 shots to kill the vehicle. Oh and it'll take the same number of shots to kill infantry too" and the new player will look at me and laugh because he thinks I'm joking. If you want to make Large Rails harder to use against infantry, that's fine. But as I told Kane in the Skype chat, there are half a dozen attributes that affect the performance of Large Railguns against infantry, and people are only focusing on the damage. Do I think it should be easy to snipe infantry? No. But god damn if I hit them they need to be liquified. Also a multi shot Plasma Cannon does does less damage per shot? We have that already, it's called the Breach Mass Driver. Why do we need another weapon that does the same thing? Plasma Cannon is anti shield. It wouldn't be the same thing. By that logic we should go back to just having the AR, but that's besides the point. Regarding realism, most of the weapons in this game would kill in one hit, dropsuit or not, if it were real life. Hell, a few weeks ago Lockheed tested a laser against a ground target and burnt a hole in it from 1 mile away. In the year 2015. What would a laser rifle TWENTY THOUSAND years in the future do? Certainly more than the annoying buzzing it does in Dust. And what does "armor" mean? How does one bullet always equate to the removal of a certain unit of "armor"? How do skills work? How can I "learn" more armor? You explain these idiosyncrasies to the noob the same way you explain everything else: "Because that's the way it is in this game, if you want real, join the army" The question isn't whether or not it's "realistic" or not, it's whether it's a good mechanic or not. Realism is a silly thing to be dogmatic about when designing a video game. You have no traction there. Also, it doesn't matter how "hard" rail/forge sniping is, the barrier to entry has been surmounted by enough players to make it a common occurrence.
I need to get online again, and definitely talk to doc if he stills gets on, but that's besides the point . C'mon think just for a little while, why should infantry have even the slightest chance of surviving a large rail shot? Because it's "unfair" based off of it's ability to one hit kill infantry?
Well based off of that being your main argument it is no longer worth reasoning with you as you seem fairly set in the way you'd like to view the issue.
I Like Tanks, Nova Knives and MagSec SMG's.
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