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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2907
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Posted - 2015.01.19 17:54:00 -
[61] - Quote
If MKB raw input wasn't like running in sand, I'd use it. I finally gave up and now use an Aimon PS Elite. I honestly don't know how players like Whale do what they do with MKB, and I've yet to talk to anyone who has skills with both prefer raw MKB -- it's that bad. I did, however, get an XIM4 the other day, and I do intend on giving it another try as I've heard some players are having success with this device.
And for those of you who think MKB is some magical strafing/killing machine -- I challenge you to strafe side by side with a MKB and controller, and you will see virtually no difference in strafing between the two (but a VERY large change in your ability to aim).
Or hit me up in-game and I'll show you MKB and DS3 side-by-side...so you can form your opinion based on observable facts rather than rely on the mistaken groupthink exhibited in this thread. |
Victor889
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
187
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Posted - 2015.01.19 18:04:00 -
[62] - Quote
It is definitely an issue and one that most people use unfortunately.
Something like the recent Battlefield fixes could help in my opinion, changing the rate of acceleration could solve this in one swoop.
Decreasing scouts' and increasing heavies' doesn't really change much, I say uniformity for all would at least be a smart step in the right direction.
LvLcap did a very good review on it a little while ago and I think it did get implemented into the full game if not the CTE shortly afterwards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoGULTnalfY
Part time Logi,
Full time heavy.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
3154
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Posted - 2015.01.19 19:35:00 -
[63] - Quote
KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Strafing is fine as long as everyone can do it the same. If someone has an unfair advantage, then they should remove it, but that's the case with most things, sooo... Working as intended. You see, there IS an unfair advantage. My controller (when strafing) had a deadspot (aka a delay) in between left and right because it takes time to move the joystick. A KB/M however, has no delay, so they super strafe.
Bullshit...
Keyboards have movement acceleration the same as a DS3....
When you goto move anywhere there is an acceleration curve the mercenary goes through before they hit their top speed.
This is universal in DUST... no matter what control input.
You can hit A+D+A+D+A+D with keyboard all you want.... Grab one off your computer and give it a try... See if it produces the results you speak of...
A+D+A+D is an extremely easy movement pattern to hit... And if the user panics? They end up spamming it to much for you to even gain enough speed to break Aim assist locks.
Stutter stepping with the DS3 is EXTREMELY hard to hit... Veterans playing FPS games for 10+ years have a hard time aiming at it consistently..
You issue is with core mechanics not a player playing the game to be effective.
Net code : is where your client and CCP servers communicate.. Then add the complex nature of your opponents client talking to CCP servers then the Servers relaying that information to your client... Often in DUST your enemy is in a slightly different location on the server and even more of a different location on the opponents client.
This is also why it seems targets at long distances move in a sorta stop motion movement... Not fluid... but jittery and extremely hard to predict aiming movements because your client is confused on where they even are on the server.
Hit Detection: Hit detection system in DUST is similar to GTA 5... When your crosshair turns "Red" that is the only time CCP's servers and your playstation says "Ok your bullets will now register" If a target is able to stay mobile that you can't keep crosshairs on them enough to engage the "Lock on" hit detection feature... Then your crosshair could be deadcenter without it being red and you won't hit.... Except with certain weapons that have had band-aid's installed around Aim assist to try and stop forum complaints about hit detection.
Until CCP addresses their rudimentary core mechanics to a FPS game... Your in the same boat as everyone... We all use the same broken half fast core mechanics... It about learning how to work around them and use them to your advantage seeing how CCP is more focused on small numbers then actually fixing the core issues to their game.
Core mechanics...
Attracting new players and retaining them.
Eve/ DUST link.
Instead every gun and item in this game has had its numbers tweaked in some way.. gg? |
gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention
734
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Posted - 2015.01.19 19:55:00 -
[64] - Quote
People always complain about core mechanics, but they are rarely addressed, it's not the community's fault that focus is placed more on balancing, which is equally important. Netcode and server issues are things that the community can't really comment on because of their lack of knowledge, all we can do competently is complain about the stuff.
Not enough people in the community know enough about online game design to say: "change the html code here to this value so that the server doesn't sh*t when it receives information on the client."
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
We need a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank
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Balistyc Farshot
The Exemplars RISE of LEGION
34
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Posted - 2015.01.19 20:27:00 -
[65] - Quote
The strafing is starting to remind me of the good old days of golden eye. Next thing you know, they will introduce Odd Job as a playable suit.
I think this is a problem, but we know it is only effective on scouts. Since we just finished nerfing the cloak into what it is now, lets leave scouts alone for a little bit. Once they take away the frisbee RE (Still waiting for this nerf), no one will be a scout except the shotgun lovers and knifers.
I did have to like the pole dancer comment.
Heavy with a massive bullet hose called Lola (Burst HMG).
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ROMULUS H3X
research lab
289
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Posted - 2015.01.19 20:34:00 -
[66] - Quote
KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote:Needs to be fixed. I can't stand people just going left and right 24/7. Look, if I wanted to see people dancing in front of me all night, I'd go to a strip club.
Seriously Kill3R, at least give my buddy chael-tec credit for the quote...
FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS
PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH
ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
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137H4RGIC
Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment.
403
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Posted - 2015.01.19 20:44:00 -
[67] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:
3. Inertia is a thing, yes, but it absolutely does make sense to be able to move left then right at the speeds we're moving at. These aren't cars going 80 miles per hour trying to suddenly stop, these are humans moving at human speeds. Try it, get up off your couch and strafe left then strafe right. Do you feel the inertia? Hardly.
I did this just because it sounded fun xD
I want to help DUST become a better experience for everyone. Let's work together!
137H4RGIC - Running for CPM2 (SOONGäó)
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ROMULUS H3X
research lab
289
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Posted - 2015.01.19 20:55:00 -
[68] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote:Nano Vyper wrote:KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Strafing is fine as long as everyone can do it the same. If someone has an unfair advantage, then they should remove it, but that's the case with most things, sooo... Working as intended. You see, there IS an unfair advantage. My control (when strafing) had a deadspot (aka a delay) in between left and right because it takes time to move the joystick. A KB/M however, has no delay, so they super strafe. This should help I shouldn't be forced to pay money for something to equal the playing field. That's an odd argument. Seeing as M/KB players bought their mice and keyboards which, at the absolute cheapest, still costs more than stick extenders. Although the idea that M/KB is superior is fallacious.
The only thing MKB is superior in, is rotation speed. This can be easily fixed if CCP allowed a higher rotation speed for controler users.
...well that and not giving me arthritis from clutching onto a controller for hours straight.. with a Mouse and keyboard I can play for hours with out my hands cramping up... 18+ years using Keyboard and Mouse for FPS, If I had been using a controller that whole time I would be crippled by now.
I bought this current keyboard and mouse for less than 20 $ combined, over a year ago. Would have ran through 2 controllers my now with the amount of sprinting in this game hahaha
FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS
PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH
ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
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Funkmaster Whale
Whale Pod
2760
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Posted - 2015.01.19 22:02:00 -
[69] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:I honestly don't know how players like Whale do what they do with MKB. A lot of patience and frustration. I use a really low in-game sensitivity while maxing out my mouse DPI (8200). It's the closest I've gotten to a "raw input" feel. I tried one of those "DS3 simulators", the Eagle Eye, and it just felt absolutely awful. The input delay on those things is through the roof on top of there being turn limitations because of the joystick simulation.
The biggest thing that kills me is framerate drops. Whenever the framerate goes to sh-t, the input delay increases and makes it feel like the game just takes it sweet time to respond to your input, which in turn makes for very frustrating gameplay. I've been having just completely awful framerates since 1.09 and 1.10 which is why I've stopped streaming. It was bearable before being exclusive to maps like the Gallente Lag Facility, but now it's like anytime I get near enemies the framerate plummets.
That, I think, is the bigger issue with this whole strafing thing. In the PC shooters I play where people strafe just as much as they do in DUST, it's much much easier to track a moving target because the games I'm playing are consistently at 60+ FPS and respond to my input the microsecond I provide it. In DUST you're lucky to even get 30 FPS and the game is like "wait... let me think about that..." anytime you give it input.
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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Alaika Arbosa
Minmatar Republic
2397
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Posted - 2015.01.19 22:26:00 -
[70] - Quote
Balistyc Farshot wrote:The strafing is starting to remind me of the good old days of golden eye. Next thing you know, they will introduce Odd Job as a playable suit. I think this is a problem, but we know it is only effective on scouts. Since we just finished nerfing the cloak into what it is now, lets leave scouts alone for a little bit. Once they take away the frisbee RE (Still waiting for this nerf), no one will be a scout except the shotgun lovers and knifers. I did have to like the pole dancer comment. If they add Odd Job, I want anti-Infantry Prox mines with 0 Bandwidth cost
Breakin Stuff for CPM2
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1745
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Posted - 2015.01.19 23:32:00 -
[71] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Strafing is fine as long as everyone can do it the same. If someone has an unfair advantage, then they should remove it, but that's the case with most things, sooo... Working as intended. You see, there IS an unfair advantage. My controller (when strafing) had a deadspot (aka a delay) in between left and right because it takes time to move the joystick. A KB/M however, has no delay, so they super strafe. The more I think about the KB/M disparity vs Dual Shock the more I keep thinking people have to HTFU. If you want to be able to strafe like that get a KB/M and learn to play using it. If you don't or can't then too damn bad.
It really is true that KB has better responsive strafing ability.
BUT Pads (controllers) have the advantage in the range where strafing matters: CQC (yet out of melee range).
The advantage is AA also known as auto aim. THAT enables pad users to feverishly strafe without sacrificing much dps.
There is a huge damage projection difference; while strafing your aim is close to target yet often slightly off. In that condition AA really kicks in. Unless someone proves otherwise?
Pro-choice!
For hazardous self-activated inertial dampeners!
We want to live on the edge (((of MCC)))
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Timtron Victory
Horizons' Edge
279
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Posted - 2015.01.19 23:55:00 -
[72] - Quote
I turned off aim assist I dont need it. I am running with a flaylock and nova kife
Dust Weekly Lottery
Proud Christian
Jesus Loves You
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KILL3R H3LLH0UND
Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance
219
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Posted - 2015.01.20 00:04:00 -
[73] - Quote
ROMULUS H3X wrote:KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote:Needs to be fixed. I can't stand people just going left and right 24/7. Look, if I wanted to see people dancing in front of me all night, I'd go to a strip club. Seriously Kill3R, at least give my buddy chael-tec credit for the quote... True enough :P
Ex-Master Scout Trainer, been falling in love with my Minja again.
I <3 my Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2916
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Posted - 2015.01.20 01:24:00 -
[74] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:I honestly don't know how players like Whale do what they do with MKB. A lot of patience and frustration. I use a really low in-game sensitivity while maxing out my mouse DPI (8200). It's the closest I've gotten to a "raw input" feel. I tried one of those "DS3 simulators", the Eagle Eye, and it just felt absolutely awful. The input delay on those things is through the roof on top of there being turn limitations because of the joystick simulation.
I had the penguin too. I could never get it to work well, and I'd call it worse than raw.
Funkmaster Whale wrote: The biggest thing that kills me is framerate drops. Whenever the framerate goes to sh-t, the input delay increases and makes it feel like the game just takes it sweet time to respond to your input, which in turn makes for very frustrating gameplay. I've been having just completely awful framerates since 1.09 and 1.10 which is why I've stopped streaming. It was bearable before being exclusive to maps like the Gallente Lag Facility, but now it's like anytime I get near enemies the framerate plummets.
I think the game struggles in situations like this regardless of the input method.
Funkmaster Whale wrote:That, I think, is the bigger issue with this whole strafing thing. In the PC shooters I play where people strafe just as much as they do in DUST, it's much much easier to track a moving target because the games I'm playing are consistently at 60+ FPS and respond to my input the microsecond I provide it. In DUST you're lucky to even get 30 FPS and the game is like "wait... let me think about that..." anytime you give it input.
Agreed on all counts. |
Timtron Victory
Horizons' Edge
310
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Posted - 2015.02.06 09:50:00 -
[75] - Quote
m621 zma wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:2. There is no "abuse" happening. I'm simply baffled you would call using simple movement mechnaics in a game as "abuse". Someone going left when you thought they'd go right is not them abusing anything, it's them outplaying you. You're trying to say someone using their joystick or pressing A/D is "abusing" their ability to not die to some scrub who can't aim. Abuse Noun use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose; misuse
"Chop-Strafing" specifically takes advantage of the Asynchronous update between a player model and it's associated hitbox, unless the update of a player's state across all mediums is instantaneous the "tactic" of chop-strafing causes a plauers hitbox to fall out of synch with their actual posistion, your bullets impact your target but do no damage. Is this skillful? 3. Inertia is a thing, yes, but it absolutely does make sense to be able to move left then right at the speeds we're moving at. These aren't cars going 80 miles per hour trying to suddenly stop, these are humans moving at human speeds. Try it, get up off your couch and strafe left then strafe right. Do you feel the inertia? Hardly. So you sidestep at a speed of 8Mph? Faster than your briskest walk and you can stop dead in less than 10cm? A better example would be to power walk in one direction, then without taking an extended step or planting your leg to get better grip, move in the opposite direction, you'll end up face first on the floor.There is no defying physics. Stop making sh-t up to try to prove an awful point. Strafing has been a staple in every FPS since the dawn of time, but in this game because the skill disparity is so high people will come on the forums and cry about damn near anything to try and get their way. Yes strafing is indeed a stable of all FPS's, here look at this link http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafing_(gaming) which refers to strafing as continous movememt oft in one direction, or as means of locmotion. As for the defying physics, actually there is a huge error, no acceleration or retardation, which simply isn't possible in our universe. Now say what you like about it being skillful or integral to the game or whatever you want, it still misses the important factors, chop-strafing ruins immersion, perpetuates bad team-play and in general lowers the skill level of the game. But don't just take my word for it (as a Computer Science, who recently got 85% in his Computer Games Theory, really happy about that), developers think it to. http://www.pcgamer.com/call-of-duty-red-orchestra-2-interview/#page-1 Re-read the bit where he's talking about quake/unreal... The problem with this thread is that most of you are the COD players with no skill whining because you can't get kills because you can't aim at a moving target.
Haha I have never played COD. I despise First person shooters and First person games in general. Dust is my first foray into first person shooters lol
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Proud Christian
Jesus Loves You
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Renolissa
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance
1807
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Posted - 2015.02.06 10:01:00 -
[76] - Quote
KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Strafing is fine as long as everyone can do it the same. If someone has an unfair advantage, then they should remove it, but that's the case with most things, sooo... Working as intended. You see, there IS an unfair advantage. My controller (when strafing) had a deadspot (aka a delay) in between left and right because it takes time to move the joystick. A KB/M however, has no delay, so they super strafe.
kb/m strafe is not quick, but, some players have a macros on kb/m and thats players have super strafe and they immortal!)
....................DUST 514 FOREVER....................
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