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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
3096
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Posted - 2015.01.14 01:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Love to see all those new blue tags. I am really quite interested in seeing how all this new stuff plays out. To those interested: Skill Points, Warbarge stuff, More Salvage
The most interesting thing is, of course, the Warbarge changes. That isn't just tweaking some numbers regarding SP or introducing vendor trash; that is an entirely new system that is having to be implemented in DUST. It might very well be the most ambitious thing that CCP has been successful in doing with DUST. Whether this is sad or exciting is in your interpretation. I only have one question: to what end?
How much farther is DUST capable of going with the current hardware and software? We were told to expect minor hotfixes, which I believe is what the SP change falls into and possibly the Salvage part. But this Warbarge overhaul is way beyond anything we have seen yet and is coming at a time when DUST is not at its strongest (IE, still recovering from months of radio silence). Considering that nothing can have a strong, long term plan on a console that is already 8 years old and the replacement to said platform was released 14 months ago, it seems so very strange to me that such extensive changes are coming.
These changes have to be difficult to do and will likely take quite a bit of development time, meaning money. With the Executive Producer not having posted anything for nearly 8 months, I am deeply curious where the current idea, the concept of 'DUST 514' stands. This new stuff has me wondering:
To what end?
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
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Michael Arck
6145
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Posted - 2015.01.14 01:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
To make money. Cater to newer players to have them feel comfortable in investing into Dust 514, in which all romanticism aside, has failed in its execution. What exactly is Dust 514? What exactly is on the timeline for the future?
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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Crimson ShieId
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
1699
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Posted - 2015.01.14 02:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
You seem to be forgetting that Dust can serve as the perfect testing platform for Legion, one that doesn't require them to risk players sending out bad information about their new game and, even better, garners revenue on top of allowing them to test new weapons and systems. Unless they completely overhaul Legion from what we've seen, it's really just an upgraded Dust with more features and pretty graphics, so it can't be all that difficult for them to take everything they learn and implement into Dust and put it into Legion.
Hardware isn't the most limiting thing, it's the imagination and the publisher (budget) that truly limit the experience.
I want to punch.
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
3099
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Posted - 2015.01.14 04:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Crimson ShieId wrote:You seem to be forgetting that Dust can serve as the perfect testing platform for Legion I didn't forget but I am more focused on the several months it has been since Legion was even mentioned. The last bit was from Frame saying "we have not plans for Legion or DUST announcements at FanFest."
Like I said, I am just really curious where DUST is planning on going from here. If it was two years ago and all these changes were being implemented, I would have said nothing. If Legion was never mentioned, I wouldn't have minded. But I just want to know where the game is headed or if there is any kind of plan. But Rattati hates me and will never reply
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
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Not Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
467
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Posted - 2015.01.14 05:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:But Rattati hates me and will never reply Obvious dev bait is obvious dear Joseph. To what end is this all?
To upgrade my illustrious wooden leg you are so fond of.
Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
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bolsh lee
Ahrendee Mercenaries
1245
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Posted - 2015.01.14 06:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
All this fluff still doesn't mean **** if the game still runs like **** ... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=187433
Although I don't see much of that stuff happening. By the time Phase 1 has its bugs worked out the player base will be under 2k concurrent, and development halted... |
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
3102
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Posted - 2015.01.14 07:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Not Jadek Menaheim wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:But Rattati hates me and will never reply Obvious dev bait is obvious dear Joseph. To what end is this all? To upgrade my illustrious wooden leg you are so fond of. I am usually overly verbose so I figured I would ask it simple and straight, my peg-legged princess.
I could have worded it as:
"DUST 514 is in a very interesting place. After the announcement of Legion and subsequent statements by other CCP devs, we were lead to believe that Legion was going to replace DUST or at least was going to be put on the backburner for now. There was some unsettlingly news about how there would be no 'planned announcement' for Legion or DUST at FanFest. Now we have this extremely fascinating new bit of tech coming out; the new Warbarge system. I am really looking forward to it, adding even more depth to the game; even better if it is entirely optional and lets those who are crafty gain benefits over those that don't want to do it but small enough to not just be 'win more'. But this seems to be coming out of nowhere. There has been no announcement on the current big picture plans for DUST in some time and now we have the Trello boards as well as this Warbarge system.
I am wondering where this puts DUST 514, the current, in CCP's plans. The original idea seemed to be, at least how I understand in the way it was communicated, that Legion would take over where DUST left off in getting that true 'DUST 514' as a concept. But this seems to be the result of a massive shake up. If DUST 514 is on an old platform and we are a small, intimate community, I am curious that such a huge change is happening. Ecstatic that such a thing is happening and I am deeply looking forward to the new system... but I have to wonder; what is the end goal of DUST considering the original plan, the concept of 'DUST 514', has been so tricky to lay down?"
but I instead decided to cut out the flowery language and instead ask "to what end?"
Don't worry my Romani Buttercup; I will always have use of beautiful words to describe your radiance.
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
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7th Son 7
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
306
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Posted - 2015.01.14 09:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:Love to see all those new blue tags. I am really quite interested in seeing how all this new stuff plays out. To those interested: Skill Points, Warbarge stuff, More SalvageThe most interesting thing is, of course, the Warbarge changes. That isn't just tweaking some numbers regarding SP or introducing vendor trash; that is an entirely new system that is having to be implemented in DUST. It might very well be the most ambitious thing that CCP has been successful in doing with DUST. Whether this is sad or exciting is in your interpretation. I only have one question: to what end? How much farther is DUST capable of going with the current hardware and software? We were told to expect minor hotfixes, which I believe is what the SP change falls into and possibly the Salvage part. But this Warbarge overhaul is way beyond anything we have seen yet and is coming at a time when DUST is not at its strongest (IE, still recovering from months of radio silence). Considering that nothing can have a strong, long term plan on a console that is already 8 years old and the replacement to said platform was released 14 months ago, it seems so very strange to me that such extensive changes are coming. These changes have to be difficult to do and will likely take quite a bit of development time, meaning money. With the Executive Producer not having posted anything for nearly 8 months, I am deeply curious where the current idea, the concept of 'DUST 514' stands. This new stuff has me wondering: To what end?
Hopefully to fund Legion or something similar. Or their going to take the money and run and were being bled, lol
Conduct on the battlefield is the ultimate measure of a man
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
3102
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Posted - 2015.01.14 09:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
7th Son 7 wrote: Hopefully to fund Legion or something similar. Or their going to take the money and run and were being bled, lol These two things are not related though. BPO's and ways more purchasable things result in more money to CCP which is what they have been doing for the past few months. I am fine with CCP making money if it isn't egregious on the players and so far... been pretty alright. But how they use that money is interesting:
A. "Take it and run!" This is self-explanatory. I do not think this is what is happening given the Warbarge system. Hotfixes and tweaks are probably cheaper than entirely new stuff so they are spending money on the game. In my opinion, this isn't the case. B. "Money for Legion." They are using money to fund Legion. The question is 'why build something so new for DUST?' though. Like above, hotfixes are surely cheaper than new stuff so money being spent on DUST is money not being spent on Legion and vice versa. This leads to the "to what end?" question. C. "We are just building DUST to a better game." Certainly great but I have to ask: "What is the final goal with DUST given everything that has happened?"
Like I said, I am really damn happy about these new changes because they seem massive and massive things happening to a game that has been questioned on its health is good. But I still want to know where DUST is heading.
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
14748
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Posted - 2015.01.14 09:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Personally, to make Dust 514 a better game because I passionately care about it and the players.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
1773
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Posted - 2015.01.14 10:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote: Personally, to make Dust 514 a better game because I passionately care about it and the players.
Not to be mean but.....
Then stop listening to the forums. Bandwidth and the new match making are the worst things that have ever happened to this game.
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
3104
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Posted - 2015.01.14 10:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote: Personally, to make Dust 514 a better game because I passionately care about it and the players.
Damn, a wild Rattati shows up and me without any Master Balls.
Does DUST currently have any kind of long term goal or end result beyond that? While that is an honorable goal and I really do believe you mean what you said, it is just strange that it was "hotfixes only" and now we are getting honest new content. Just seems like Oprah saying "Sorry, no cars this week..." and ending her show shouting "you get a car, and you get a car!"
Thanks for the reply Rattati.
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
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Breakin Stuff
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
6399
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Posted - 2015.01.14 11:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:CCP Rattati wrote: Personally, to make Dust 514 a better game because I passionately care about it and the players.
Bandwidth is amazing fixed
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
9218
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Posted - 2015.01.14 13:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:deezy dabest wrote:CCP Rattati wrote: Personally, to make Dust 514 a better game because I passionately care about it and the players.
Bandwidth is amazing fixed The only people I've seen complain about it used the "I can no longer switch to my heavy suit and still have links argument" the majority of the time
CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6622
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Posted - 2015.01.14 13:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Then stop listening to the forums. Before I get too deep into why you are wrong, I'll start here. Basically, you are saying that he should stop listening to players. We have had that before, and it pretty much made DUST 514 is more **** than it is right now.
Rattati listens to the forums for feedback on ideas and to get new ideas. He absolutely should listen to the forums. He should also weigh each suggestion against certain things. "Can our team accomplish this in a reasonable amount of time?" is a good example.
deezy dabest wrote:Bandwidth and the new match making are the worst things that have ever happened to this game. The only people I have heard complain about bandwidth are mercs who would open a match in a logi to deploy metric fucktons of equipment everywhere, then swap to an HMG sentinel to go 30/0. Sorry, not sorry.
The logi players I squad with are happy with the change. They see their deployable equipment being used more often and that validates their place on the battlefield.
Matchmaking has not been updated since Rattati came on board. Team building was updated. If you get into a match where the teams felt lopsided, send a screenshot to [email protected] so CCP can determine if something went wrong with the system. This kind of stuff is forever being tweaked and updated.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1740
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Posted - 2015.01.14 13:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote: Personally, to make Dust 514 a better game because I passionately care about it and the players.
/thread
Go Here
and vote! 1 like is 1 vote!
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6622
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Posted - 2015.01.14 13:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:To what end? I would guess because it is what CCP pays him to do.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
440
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Posted - 2015.01.14 13:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:deezy dabest wrote:CCP Rattati wrote: Personally, to make Dust 514 a better game because I passionately care about it and the players.
Bandwidth is amazing fixed The only people I've seen complain about it used the "I can no longer switch to my heavy suit and still have links argument" the majority of the time
1. Dont you mean i cant swap to anything no matter what the situation because i will lose basically everything and i am forced to play that role and only that role for the entire length of the game or my team will suffer as a consequence? |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6622
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Posted - 2015.01.14 14:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. Dont you mean i cant swap to anything no matter what the situation because i will lose basically everything and i am forced to play that role and only that role for the entire length of the game or my team will suffer as a consequence? "Basically everything" means something different to you than it does to the rest of us.
Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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Breakin Stuff
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
6409
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Posted - 2015.01.14 14:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:
Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket.
Oh look, my new sig has been found!
Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2452
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Posted - 2015.01.14 15:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
bolsh lee wrote:All this fluff still doesn't mean **** if the game still runs like **** ... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=187433Although I don't see much of that stuff happening. By the time Phase 1 has its bugs worked out the player base will be under 2k concurrent, and development halted... This is what is bothering me.
Most of this new 'content' is smoke and mirrors, tbh. Where it does contact actual in-match gameplay, i.e. the warbarge, it's an arbitrary and immersion-breaking kludge that make very little sense. It's also potentially harmful, given the way Rattai was so willing to propose in-match damage bonuses - he should have been the one fighting marketing on that. Instead, once again, it's left to the playerbase to defend DUST.
There are many ways to fix PC, this warbarge mechanic is totally unnecessary. This is a mechanic driven almost solely by a marketing model, imo. That marketing model is obviously bad for the game and really doesn't have any respect for DUST's core FPS gameplay or New Eden itself.
PSN: RationalSpark
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bolsh lee
Ahrendee Mercenaries
1250
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Posted - 2015.01.14 16:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:bolsh lee wrote:All this fluff still doesn't mean **** if the game still runs like **** ... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=187433Although I don't see much of that stuff happening. By the time Phase 1 has its bugs worked out the player base will be under 2k concurrent, and development halted... This is what is bothering me. Most of this new ''content is smoke and mirrors, tbh. Where it does contact actual in-match gameplay, i.e. the warbarge, it's an arbitrary and immersion-breaking kludge that make very little sense. It's also potentially harmful, given the way Rattai was so willing to propose in-match damage bonuses - he should have been the one fighting marketing on that. Instead, once again, it's left to the playerbase to defend DUST. There are many ways to fix PC, this warbarge mechanic is totally unnecessary. This is a mechanic driven almost solely by a marketing model, imo. That marketing model is obviously bad for the game and really doesn't have any respect for DUST's core FPS gameplay or New Eden itself.
Yeah, and it's unbelievably frustrating to anyone (vet or new comer) who has put time and money into Dust and who is awake enough see what's going on..
Then we have Rattati posting in this thread like he cares for the players and/or game.. I really want to believe him and I like what he has done so far outside of the strong boxes..
But when threads like above go unmentioned and have seemingly little concern to Rattati and friends. It's hard to stay positive, because anyone who can think outside of the shiny things mentality can see this game for what it is and realize why people have and continue to leave.. I would go on but that threads sums it up nicely...
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1722
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Posted - 2015.01.14 16:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
bolsh lee wrote:It's hard to stay positive ...
With respect, have you ever been positive? I can't recall a single post yours with a whine percentage below 50%. |
DDx77
The Exemplars RISE of LEGION
83
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Posted - 2015.01.14 16:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:CCP Rattati wrote: Personally, to make Dust 514 a better game because I passionately care about it and the players.
Not to be mean but..... Then stop listening to the forums. Bandwidth and the new match making are the worst things that have ever happened to this game.
I don't like bandwidth at all, I think there was a simpler solution to make logi's feel more important. It is certainly not " the worst thing ever "
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6634
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Posted - 2015.01.14 16:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
DDx77 wrote:I don't like bandwidth at all, I think there was a simpler solution to make logi's feel more important. What is an alternative to bandwidth that would make the logi dropsuit useful and prevent other dropsuits from using a logi suit as a disposable pre-match deployable equipment suit?
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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bolsh lee
Ahrendee Mercenaries
1250
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Posted - 2015.01.14 16:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:bolsh lee wrote:It's hard to stay positive ...
With respect, have you ever been positive?
Sure... Everything before 1.4 in Uprising I believe ? There may of been a few negative post here and there back in chromosome but I like to think they were all warranted.
You ever hear the phrase "There is no such thing as bad publicity except your own obituary." I'd rather have people pointing out the bad then reading about Dust in the obituary...
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
1780
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Posted - 2015.01.14 17:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote: The only people I've seen complain about it used the "I can no longer switch to my heavy suit and still have links argument" the majority of the time
I cared about that the first day and got over it. What I am complaining about is the amazing lack of uplinks on the field horribly slowing down pace of play. This could also be an issue that is increased by the addition of the cheap flux OBs at the same time.
Either way pace of play has been horribly slowed down and when combined with matchmaking it has made this game so boring that it is unbearable when you are not in a squad that has a dedicated link logi or people tossing uplinks on their scouts and assaults.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6643
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Posted - 2015.01.14 17:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:What I am complaining about is the amazing lack of uplinks on the field horribly slowing down pace of play. This could also be an issue that is increased by the addition of the cheap flux OBs at the same time. Do you carry uplinks on your fittings? Also, have you ever considered running a logistics dropsuit? Without uplinks on the field you are in a position to make a ton of WP's...
Obligatory: logis need a balancing pass.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
15538
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Posted - 2015.01.14 17:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote: Personally, to make Dust 514 a better game because I passionately care about it and the players.
But how realistic is it?
You also said you wanted to do a big vehicle overhaul, yet that seems to have put on the shelf for now too. The changes look great, hopefully you'll forgive me though if I dont believe anything anymore till its actually in game
My YouTube (currently inactive)
Homeless Dropship Enthusiast
"See You Space Cowboy"
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance
1361
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Posted - 2015.01.14 18:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
bolsh lee wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:bolsh lee wrote:All this fluff still doesn't mean **** if the game still runs like **** ... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=187433Although I don't see much of that stuff happening. By the time Phase 1 has its bugs worked out the player base will be under 2k concurrent, and development halted... This is what is bothering me. Most of this new ''content is smoke and mirrors, tbh. Where it does contact actual in-match gameplay, i.e. the warbarge, it's an arbitrary and immersion-breaking kludge that make very little sense. It's also potentially harmful, given the way Rattai was so willing to propose in-match damage bonuses - he should have been the one fighting marketing on that. Instead, once again, it's left to the playerbase to defend DUST. There are many ways to fix PC, this warbarge mechanic is totally unnecessary. This is a mechanic driven almost solely by a marketing model, imo. That marketing model is obviously bad for the game and really doesn't have any respect for DUST's core FPS gameplay or New Eden itself. Yeah, and it's unbelievably frustrating to anyone (vet or new comer) who has put time and money into Dust and who is awake enough see what's going on.. Then we have Rattati posting in this thread like he cares for the players and/or game.. I really want to believe him and I like what he has done so far outside of the strong boxes.. But when threads like above go unmentioned and have seemingly little concern to Rattati and friends. It's hard to stay positive, because anyone who can think outside of the shiny things mentality can see this game for what it is and realize why people have and continue to leave.. I would go on but that threads sums it up nicely...
I actually do believe Ratatti cares, and is working to make the game better. But there's a stupidly stark comparison I'm going to make between EVE and DUST and no its not about lore, mechanics or the community.
Its about the Dev-cycle.
The real reason we're getting 'smoke and mirrors' besides the actually mentioned intent to enlarge the game and make it feel more engaging, is because as someone mentioned somewhere earlier (prolly you Bolsh) is that the core is rotten.
As in, UNFIXABLE.
Think of when the mechanics where first first made, 3 years ago now. All brilliant and beautiful hard coding that behaved..."magically" ...at first. Probably made by one or two dedicated devs. Then it was a new build here, and some new items there, everything still fairly 'rainbows and unicorns' because the core mechanics, while not perfect, fit decently well with the game.
Then devs got shuffled and/or lost to work on the Uprising snafu. And snafu it did. The remake of textures and objects, additions to the game code continued to pile on the original 'legacy' code (FORESHADOWING) burying it deeper and deeper in lines of hardly distinguishable bits from one another.
Development then continued to ramp up, adding more and more to try and 'fix' the dark ages of 1.0-1.4.
Somewhere in the passage of time, the original coders have been lost. The people that could semi-easily go in and find what they're looking for and change it accordingly. Then Rouge came by and took everything not nailed down to do Legion. Far less devs, same ol' problems
fastforward to today: Ratatti most likely KNOWS of the glaring issues, but quite possibly CAN NOT fix them. Either because the game architecture wont allow it, or the man-hours are sooo vast, it will kill anything else we could possibly have
Just like EVE's Player Owned Structure coding. and why its never been fixed. In fact, EVE created a whole new class of deployables to dance around the POS code without having to fix it, because its too costly.
So in reality, we're getting the shiny new stuff kitchen because we cant fix the crack in the basement walls without tearing the house apart.
And that makes me a sad merc.
1 Warbarge. 5 market networks. Proto for everyone!
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