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Spkr4theDead
Red Star. EoN.
2637
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Posted - 2014.12.30 04:27:00 -
[121] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:
LOL im sorry but my Marine and Sailor friends that im reading this to are laughing and calling bull. if you want to go the real life route tanks operate using a system called "combined arms" this is because while modern m1 abrams have thermoptics they are only able to see what they are actively looking at.
Sailors don't tank.
No reason for combined arms because video game.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star. EoN.
2637
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Posted - 2014.12.30 04:29:00 -
[122] - Quote
Toobar Zoobar wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
Yea, it's good on paper but added in with the bad hit detection and you won't get anything done.
Pfff some times I wonder if you tank at all. The hit detection IS terrible. I have plenty of experience with that turret and its a joke, certainly if you're on the move which brings me to my next point. You can't control the HAV when you're using a small turret plus there's also the greatly reduced field of view to contend with. Especially if you're driving solo and have the bad timing to need to jump into a small turret, with the horrible, horrible misfortune of being next to some random that wants to get in a vehicle, any vehicle, just because they want to. Then your vehicle is at the mercy of some idiot.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Toobar Zoobar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
52
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Posted - 2014.12.30 17:19:00 -
[123] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:to be fair, the goddamned heavy blaster turret dispersion needs to be SEVERELY toned down.
When HAV pilots are bitching about not being able to hit idiots at ten meters they aren't exaggerating even slightly.
My poor madrugar. I loved you somewhat. Now I have to send another few million to my HAV alt to keep myself in underpowered gallente tanks for the foreseeable future.
Teamwork is OP. getting hit by a PLC, forge gun and two swarms all at once was absolutely hilarious.
Especially since I survived the first volley. The problem with blaster is CCP increase it's range a lot and then instead of nerfing the range, the made it so you can't hit sh*t. Nobody complained about blasters before 1.7 and It'd be nice to get them back. It's not fair fighting infantry running circles around you throwing AV nades, remotes and shooting swarms while you can't do sh*t about it. Tanks had one role and role always in War. Support infantry, and what support can we give them? An intimidation factor? "oh look, it's a tank!! Haha looks scary but it actually shoots fluffy bunnies" Yeah what he said because tankers never jump out right before their tanks explodes with a Proto HVY HMG to get you or hop out when they cant hit you with the turret in a HMG hvy ever right That's bull crap, we shouldn't have to jump out to deal with infantry. Especially a fking tank. I don't see U.S. Soldiers getting out of their M1A2 Abrams because a Terrorist is shooting at them. They fire the cannon and let the explosion do the work. It's like battle field, Infantry don't want to get close to a tank. They will rip you up. Tanks in battle field feel like tanks, bishes go running when they see them. Infantry have to play smart and can't just come out of the open bunny hopping. Tanks in battle field also provide the operation with two different gun selections, they get a heavy machine gun and a main missile turret. LOL im sorry but my Marine and Sailor friends that im reading this to are laughing and calling bull. if you want to go the real life route tanks operate using a system called "combined arms" this is because while modern m1 abrams have thermoptics they are only able to see what they are actively looking at. In order to improve the survivability of tanks in close combat situations( the tank's nemsis) extensive modification has been done to the m1 Abrams lately. One of these modifications is a phone on the back of the tank so that infantry operating WITH the tank can pick it up and tell the tc(tank commander) about danger ahead. This is important because a rpg7vl can punch through 750mm of armor, that's 29 inches of armor. While the face of the turret has plenty of armor to absorb that the sides of the tank do not, which is again why reactive armor has been added weighing down on the armor in an effort to improve the survivability of the tank. In the end irl the close combat belongs to the infantry, tanks are supposed to control the battle and position the battle by operating either in packs or in infantry concert. The worst nightmare for a tank in any era of history is for hostile infantry to be crawling all over it. In ww2 in the bocage german infantry shredded allied armor because the fighting range was <50m which put all tanks in a situation ripe for ambush from a panzerfaust that would knock out any allied tank without effort. The germans made 6,000,000 of those rockets, while we made 50,000 shermans.... Yeah.... So yeah, since you pulled Irl into this then lets just leave it with this. You should operate with other tanks watching your back, or with infantry support. YOUR TANK IS NOT MEANT FOR CLOSE COMBAT. If your within 25m of enemy infantry your a ******* moron. USE YOUR TANK MACHINEGUN and stop bitching that the cannon which is meant for anti tank duty is not effective against infantry in game. Ok so if we remove swarms replace them with RPGs ( some actual skill in using one of those ). Limit all large turrets to slow rotation speed but give them all good range and plenty of splash would that float your boat? Maybe the railgun and missile might feel, I don't know, realistic for once I guess.
And if again, if we continue on with this theme of realism, than how about we remove strafing from the game ( I shouldn't have to explain why ) and add kick so strong to the forge gun that it flings the user back 4m? Now that would be entertaining.
Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
1055
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Posted - 2014.12.31 22:40:00 -
[124] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Quote:="Sir Dukey"Thanks for the novel. Hope it get's published. Fixed some mistakes. Anyway, just to be clear, no where does it say the blaster turret is for AV. The turret was originally meant for AI. Go ahead and look up chromosome Blaster turret video. The videos are a great example of how good the turret used to be.
Tanks right now are Rock vs. Rock vs. Rock. Some rock is hard and some rock is fragile. Why use the fragile rock when you can use the harder rock? One acutely notes that correcting grammar is not the same as refuting an argument. in fact your expressing two logical fallacies in order to avoid actually refuting what I said. First, your attempting to shift the argument away from the issues by pointing out something completely unrelated to the topic at hand. In argument this action is the same as a man caught stealing pointing his finger and saying "look a fire over there!" and then using the opportunity to run away. Second, instead of actually discussing the pertinent points you instead attack the character of my language thereby creating an argument that fundamentally is a logic fallacy. That fallacy is that if someone expresses an idea in a way you do not like then that idea has no merit, we both know here and now that such an argument is fluff and bullshit. There is another felacious argument expressed above. You argue that the blaster was intended to be anti infantry weapon and provide a video as evidence. The argument you are expressing therefore is that "the blaster was effective against infantry, therefore it was intended to be used against infantry." This itself is an illogical argument, for many things are useful in applications other than their designed purpose, but that does not make them an intended tool for that application. A peen hammer will hammer nails well, but that does not make the peen hammer a carpenters hammer. Your tanks are modifiable. They have weapons such as machineguns that are intended to defend the armor against infantry. You have a choice in setting up your tank in this game. You can design a tank destroyer, or a more flexible main battle tank that is designed to operate against infantry targets as well as armor but flexibility has its costs. Its much like those who have anti vehicle loadouts without any means of defending against infantry. Would you please find a chromosome blaster video, i can not seem to find one.
I find it interesting that you believe Machine Guns are not supposed to be used against infantry. Please tell me what the purpose of the HMG or SMG is then. Yes, the "Blaster" is a large machine gun.
Weapon categories were originally Blaster -- infantry specialization Rail -- Vehicle specialization Missile -- a bit of both.
Now tanks have no real infantry anything. Mount a small blaster or small rail? That's like saying "Use a Militia grade weapon, because the larger Prototype weapons shouldn't be allowed to damage infantry".
As of now the weapon alignments are: Blaster -- Nothing, don't try to run this without at least one swarm assistant (who will do more damage than you BTW) Rail -- acceptable against tanks, not very specialized. High wobble in reticule makes it near impossible to hit infantry. Missile -- Blows tanks to shreds without much effort. Can mutilate infantry that gets too close, within 30 meters.
In other words, there are no anti-infantry tank builds. your last paragraph is basically a self-created delusion, of unreasonable proportions.
----Last I checked, AV loadouts were mostly applied to Commandos. That means Swarm in one hand, Combat Rifle in the other.
I mean seriously... do you even play the game? At ALL? Can you show us a video of this magical "flexibility" in action? I would love to see you try to survive a combat region for about 5 minutes without switching or abandoning your tank. If you cannot stay INSIDE the combat zone with a defense oriented tank, then your entire argument is proven false. (in other words, you don't just use a bit of cover on the field, but retreat a good distance down the field possibly even into your own base. Everyone who plays a tank knows you can only survive if you play at the edge of the combat zone, and retreat as fast as you can whenever there is incoming AV fire. If you don't do these two things you will die. There is NO flexibility in the general gameplay of tanks.
If you stop to fire back, you are DEAD. No questions asked. Returning fire is NOT an option. Yet people claim infantry to be at a disadvantage? Where? Infantry can force tanks to never be allowed visual range of them by using the environment while firing AV volleys without care.
Here's a clip that illustrates a typical tank deployment. Notice how they are supported by the ground troops, but also notice how easily the tanks are simply demolished. http://youtu.be/5tCJzBM_llw?t=6m49s
I haven't been able to find any tank gameplay videos from the last few months, just videos of tanks blowing up. If they were even remotely as versatile as you say, I should have found a good handful.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
14757
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Posted - 2014.12.31 23:11:00 -
[125] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote: Anyway, just to be clear, no where does it say the blaster turret is for AV. The turret was originally meant for AI. Go ahead and look up chromosome Blaster turret video. The videos are a great example of how good the turret used to be.
I love when people talk about things when they don't know what they're talking about.
However...
CCP Rattati wrote:LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
---
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: There are literally places where tanks can be running at full speed toward cover while at max health, and be killed by swarms before they even get there.
Interesting, give me an example.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
16366
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Posted - 2014.12.31 23:20:00 -
[126] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Sir Dukey wrote: Anyway, just to be clear, no where does it say the blaster turret is for AV. The turret was originally meant for AI. Go ahead and look up chromosome Blaster turret video. The videos are a great example of how good the turret used to be.
I love when people talk about things when they don't know what they're talking about. However...CCP Rattati wrote:LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry. --- Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: There are literally places where tanks can be running at full speed toward cover while at max health, and be killed by swarms before they even get there.
Interesting, give me an example.
Since we know that's the case lets ******* do away with the LB all together and get that 25mm Charged Electron Blasters I suggested. Would be much better if we used something a bit better and more tank like like the 37mm Gun design but honestly Dusters couldn't handle it.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound
2386
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Posted - 2015.01.01 00:38:00 -
[127] - Quote
A point I feel needs to be made. The SP/ISK debate does have some merit, Breakin. But I feel this needs clarification.
Yes, SP for SP, it costs more to run a tank than it does to run AV. However, A GOOD PORTION OF TANK SP HAS NO BEARING ON SURVIVING AV. Your blaster rapid reload SP does not have any bearing on your tanks ability to tank forges and swarms. Yes, in a fight of maxed out tank vs maxed out AV, the AV should win. But it should be neck-to-neck the entire way. Advanced swarms should not kill a proto tank in a single magazine. AV should be able to kill us, but they certainly should invest the same amount of effort I have in order to prevent them from killing me. However, if we tankers are going to compare SP to AV as part of an argument, we need to compare only the SP relevant to surviving AV, namely Vehicle Shield/Armor Upgrades and related skills (can't remember their names and not at my PS3)
In this light, we are actually closer to good balance than we think. Something as simple as small native regen on tanks could be the deciding factor, ALONG WITH reducing tank speed, could put us into good balance.
Do not go gentle into that good night;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1438
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Posted - 2015.01.01 02:10:00 -
[128] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I love how idiot tank drivers only consider the cost of the weapon in SP/ISK.
Every time youdo that I'm going to start comparing the cost of my weapon to the cost of your turret. And emphasisze that since it's the only part of the fit that actually kills it's the only valid cost to compare.
About the ISK argument, once again tankers only count the swarms that kill them, not the many more that are killed without them even knowing about. The ISK difference between a well fitted tank and a well fitted AV may be 5X, but the number of swarmers dying for every tank is higher than that. It is always easy to think that whatever killed you is OP.
Because, that's why.
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Big Burns
Harbingers of Desolation
276
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Posted - 2015.01.01 02:16:00 -
[129] - Quote
Vehicles are trash now. I jumped into my HAV after not playing for six months and noticed that they f*cked with the round dispertion on the turrets. My thoughts, "Oh ho ho No!" I turned off the game and went and got a psn card and did a respec. Didn't need to know anything else about it, I had seen enough. lol Dropped my 12 mil from vehicles to weapons.
Kain Spero for GM of Dust514.
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Void Echo
Total Extinction
2754
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Posted - 2015.01.01 02:31:00 -
[130] - Quote
This is a suggestion to infantry.
For those of you who think tanking is so easy evem though the only time you interact with then in any way is when you shooting at them, how about you grow balls and skill into tanks and go into the battle field inside a tank for once.
Your whole argument against tanks is exactly parallel to your arguments against snipers, scouts, heavies and everything else you complain about yet you have never walked in any of their shoes.
My challenge to you is this, skill into havs, play as a tanker for a full day and give us the results on weather or not it was easy for you.
Conditions:
1. You cant depend on the players you normally run with, you must depend on the average random blueberry for everything; support, backup, defending, attacking, getting out when you need or want them to, trusting that when you jump out to hack an objective when a bluedot is right next to you, that blue dot wont high jack your tank and go suicide on its ass.
2. You cannot exit your vehicle unless your bringing in a new one, you know, because obviously your gods with ars but your even more deadly using something youv never even touched before.
3. You must have your entire squad (if this is the only thing your using them foor) to support your tank, repairing, scouting, taking all your kills claiming its to protect you, tec.
I will expect results soon from those of you with any balls.
Closed Beta Vet.
Until you know the pain I live with, you'll never understand why I see man the way I do.
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
14759
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Posted - 2015.01.01 02:33:00 -
[131] - Quote
Challenge Accepted.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Void Echo
Total Extinction
2754
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Posted - 2015.01.01 02:36:00 -
[132] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Challenge Accepted.
Automatically disqualified based on the fact that your skilled into havs and have been for over a year.
Closed Beta Vet.
Until you know the pain I live with, you'll never understand why I see man the way I do.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
16367
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Posted - 2015.01.01 03:19:00 -
[133] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Challenge Accepted.
You are already a tanker.
You're going to disagree that tanking takes skill and that's fine. I don't think much of Swarm Launchers but I can accept that they have their own quirks players have to deal with....
Either way you know as well as I do neither your biased opinion or mine really matters in this kind of discussion, no one wants to hear two old sods whine about which requires more effort.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
1056
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Posted - 2015.01.03 05:55:00 -
[134] - Quote
Atiim wrote: Interesting, give me an example.
There are a few more locations than these, but I'm just giving the most obvious.
Fracture Road is the biggest contender with a pair of death points. An inexperienced Proto user can down a tank before they have time to choose an escape route.(however shield oriented tanks may escape with a sliver, but not armor types) The road that runs through F4 and the back route through J11 are both death routes if a Proto swarmer is on the hill near those locations. If the Swarmer has an LAV, just forget about escaping, cause you can't get enough distance to heal before they zip up and roast you. I've encountered solo Commandos camping these points before ingame, almost completely uncontested.
Due to the kind of roads they are, there is no possibility of firing back, and the only way to escape is if the Swarm user announces itself prematurely.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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taxi bastard
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
272
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Posted - 2015.01.03 06:06:00 -
[135] - Quote
if they are so useless and irrelevant, why do they dominate mates so often.
to be fair they can be killed but they are a huge force multiplier in the form of tanks and it can't be denied that even militia DS can turn a game. |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
1056
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Posted - 2015.01.04 07:51:00 -
[136] - Quote
taxi bastard wrote:if they are so useless and irrelevant, why do they dominate mates so often.
to be fair they can be killed but they are a huge force multiplier in the form of tanks and it can't be denied that even militia DS can turn a game.
Why do crappy games sell? Because they have fancy graphics, nothing else.
Visual acknowledgement.
Same thing goes for tanks. You blame them only because they are the most flashy thing on the field, not the best.
Same thing for a crow when they decide. Give them a choice between something dark, but very edible, and an inedible, but very shiny object, and the crow will check the shiny object first.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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Toobar Zoobar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
101
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Posted - 2015.01.13 20:14:00 -
[137] - Quote
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .. . I like dots.
Specialization: Making typo's.
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