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pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1035	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:07:00 - [1] - Quote We are still at it. Easygame sentinels is still a thing. You dont even have to aim, you dont even have to strafe. One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
Robocop Junior research lab 825	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:08:00 - [2] - Quote As opposed to scout where all you have to do is strafe? If strength were all, tiger would not fear scorpion.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2688	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:13:00 - [3] - Quote The level of utter nonsense in this thread after only two posts is staggering. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5437	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:15:00 - [4] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: We are still at it. Easygame sentinels is still a thing. What did you expect? Nothing in 1.10 effected sentinels really. Bandwidth (when it works properly) will prevent sentinels from earning a shitton of extra WP's, but they are still the undisputed masters of everything anti-infantry. My advice to you, playa...
WARxion ForDUST G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 160	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:16:00 - [5] - Quote ITT: He got killed by a Sentinel. Yes, I'm that desperate...
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 632	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:17:00 - [6] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: We are still at it. Easygame sentinels is still a thing. You dont even have to aim, you dont even have to strafe. As someone with crappy aim I can assure you that you have to aim. Especially with the burst HMG The HMG only hits if you get the center dot in the person, not the big circle... There was a thread on it a while back Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 175	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:17:00 - [7] - Quote Robocop Junior wrote: As opposed to scout where all you have to do is strafe? 1. Also 2 shot you while cloaked 2. Or throw a frisbee RE which will either teleport behind you when backing away or land in front of you when trying to rush them, either way you die
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 632	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:18:00 - [8] - Quote WARxion ForDUST wrote: ITT: He got killed by a Sentinel. He killed me NNNNEEEEEERRRRFFF HHHHHHHIIIIIIIMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!! Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6214	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:30:00 - [9] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: We are still at it. Easygame sentinels is still a thing. You dont even have to aim, you dont even have to strafe. The true problem with sentinels is not the Suits themselves. They have an accurate amount of survivability... Its the HMG. In the past , the HMG has been either a piece of **** weapon, or a total monster weapon. Now, the damage and output are ok.... EXCEPT the RANGE. HMG's are supposed to be Projectile based CQ weapon. How in hell are people getting kills with them at 45mts? I mean, if i stumble upon a sentinel face to face, its only fair for him to wipe the floor with me.... This goes to ANOTHER issue. HMG's are way too accurate. AT closer ranges, accuracy shouldnt be a problem, The weapon is literally INTENDED to be a spray and pray weapon of inmense CQ capabilities. The problem is when you are connecting 80%+ of your bullets at 30mts. I think that after 25 MTS the HMG's spread should increase dramatically, supporting the use of Longer ranged Sidearms such as Bolt pistol, SCR Pistol or Mag Sec SMG, for longer ranges. So basically: HMG should totally shred everything at Close ranges...as it is doing it right now. HMG should LOOSE to Light weapons outside the 30mts range. Period. Amarr FW blue dots suck. If you suck :please go and bother Minmatar or Gallente. You'll even win some matches there.
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1039	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:30:00 - [10] - Quote WARxion ForDUST wrote: ITT: He got killed by a Sentinel. Yes, I got killed a lot of times in my proto gal assault by a std or adv sentinels. They have worse aim than me, they just stand still and they destroy me. Working as intended. One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!

Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2509	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:32:00 - [11] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: So basically: HMG should totally shred everything at Close ranges...as it is doing it right now. HMG should LOOSE to Light weapons outside the 30mts range. Period. Thanks for your input, binary boy. If you're dying to a HMG outside 30m with any frequency, you suck.
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1040	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:40:00 - [12] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: So basically: HMG should totally shred everything at Close ranges...as it is doing it right now. HMG should LOOSE to Light weapons outside the 30mts range. Period. Thanks for your input, binary boy. If you're dying to a HMG outside 30m with any frequency, you suck. If you cannot see they are overpowered you are either a sentinel or really stupid One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5438	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:42:00 - [13] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Thanks for your input, binary boy. If you're dying to a HMG outside 30m with any frequency, you suck. Trouble is, players engage in fire fights on parts of the map where 30m or less ranges are very commonplace, thereby making the HMG sentinel a highly durable K/D padding murdersuit. My advice to you, playa...
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2511	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:43:00 - [14] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: So basically: HMG should totally shred everything at Close ranges...as it is doing it right now. HMG should LOOSE to Light weapons outside the 30mts range. Period. Thanks for your input, binary boy. If you're dying to a HMG outside 30m with any frequency, you suck. If you cannot see they are overpowered you are either a sentinel or really stupid What does their being OP have to do with dying to them outside 30m? Again, binary boy, if you're dying to HMGs outside 30m with any frequency, you suck. And so you know, I'm hardly stupid, and I play every role Dust has to offer except commando.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2511	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:48:00 - [15] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Thanks for your input, binary boy. If you're dying to a HMG outside 30m with any frequency, you suck. Trouble is, players engage in fire fights on parts of the map where 30m or less ranges are very commonplace, thereby making the HMG sentinel a highly durable K/D padding murdersuit. They are the masters of CQC, they should rule in that range. But to call out Sentinels for being OP because of their range is simply stupidity, IMO.
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 634	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:09:00 - [16] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Thanks for your input, binary boy. If you're dying to a HMG outside 30m with any frequency, you suck. Trouble is, players engage in fire fights on parts of the map where 30m or less ranges are very commonplace, thereby making the HMG sentinel a highly durable K/D padding murdersuit. They are the masters of CQC, they should rule in that range....and let's remember you have the choice to engage or not. But to call out Sentinels for being OP because of the HMG range is just wrong, IMO, as is the OP when he said this: "You dont even have to aim, you dont even have to strafe. " If I may be so bold, what you guys should be focused on is something that decreases the DPS (either dispersion, kick, or RPM or DPB) or EHP...because the issue with Sentinels is not that their range is too large or that you don't have to aim. That's simply wrong, IMO. It would be interesting to see some additional kick and dispersion on the HMG to make more of a specialty role rather than the of to role. Perhaps along the lines of the laser rifle, in its optimal it's DEADLY but out side of that is ok or UP Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5440	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:09:00 - [17] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: They are the masters of CQC, they should rule in that range....and let's remember you have the choice to engage or not. When my option is to just sit on my ass while they have tea in the objective room or engage... no... I have to engage them. Also, who the ** decided they get to be CQC masters? When did that discussion happen? Which CCP employee stated that? Leadfoot10 wrote:** But to call out Sentinels for being OP because of the HMG range is just wrong, IMO, as is the OP when he said this: "You dont even have to aim, you dont even have to strafe. " If I may be so bold, what you guys should be focused on is something that decreases the DPS (either dispersion, kick, or RPM or DPB) or EHP...because the issue with Sentinels is not that their range is too large or that you don't have to aim. That's simply wrong, IMO. Yeah, the HMG range isn't the issue, I don't believe. It's very complicated to balance the HMG without making it completely worthless. A tiny damage decrease and a tiny penalty to turn speed while firing would be enough, I think. My advice to you, playa...
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2516	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:13:00 - [18] - Quote Ripley, CCP decided Sentinels should be CQC masters -- check the description -- and they have been since day 1 of Dust. And if you want to get one out of an enclosed area, either you need to be sneaky about it (knives, SG, explosives, hit/run), run a Sentinel yourself, or bring friends -- it's not that hard really unless you expect to be able to 1:1 them by going toe-to-toe.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5440	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:17:00 - [19] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Ripley, CCP decided Sentinels should be CQC masters -- check the description -- and they have been since day 1 of Dust. I hope you realize that me not taking your word for it, isn't personal If you have a direct quote from the dropsuit description I'll be more inclined to believe you. My advice to you, playa...
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 634	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:17:00 - [20] - Quote What if the heavy got major dispersion after 20 meters on hip fire, 30m for ADS with additional kick. Then you have a niche you excell at but would need assault escorts on more open terrain? The heavy can hold that room but can't push the hallway, thinking of gal research facility. The assaults could pick off the heavies from down the hall, requiring the defenders to have assaults to push them back, and the would have to stay under cover. Larger maps I can see a heavy escorted by a few assaults with a logi in tow allowing maximum DPS at all ranges. This would give assaults that generalized role with heavies having their niche Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.

KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6217	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:20:00 - [21] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: So basically: HMG should totally shred everything at Close ranges...as it is doing it right now. HMG should LOOSE to Light weapons outside the 30mts range. Period. Thanks for your input, binary boy. If you're dying to a HMG outside 30m with any frequency, you suck. IF im dying to HMG's at 30mts range is because the weapon is making damage at that range that it shouldnt. period ANd what are you talking about skill? players who are ALWAYS in squads have no right to talk to me like that ;) Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
Robocop Junior research lab 828	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:29:00 - [22] - Quote Last time I saw a member of Molon Labe on top.....it was on another dude. All suck solo. If strength were all, tiger would not fear scorpion.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2518	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:29:00 - [23] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: So basically: HMG should totally shred everything at Close ranges...as it is doing it right now. HMG should LOOSE to Light weapons outside the 30mts range. Period. Thanks for your input, binary boy. If you're dying to a HMG outside 30m with any frequency, you suck. IF im dying to HMG's at 30mts range is because the weapon is making damage at that range that it shouldnt. period ANd what are you talking about skill? players who are ALWAYS in squads have no right to talk to me like that ;) We both know I don't need my squad to kill you, repeatedly. And, thankfully, CCP had the foresight to include the damage falloff dynamic -- you know, the thing that neuters the HMG outside its range. Again, if you're going to complain about the HMG/Sentinel, you should be focused on other attributes. PERIOD.
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6217	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:34:00 - [24] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: We both know I don't need my squad to kill you. And luckily CCP had the foresight to include the damage falloff dynamic -- you know, the thing that neuters the HMG outside its range. Again, if you're going to complain about the HMG/Sentinel, you should be focused on other attributes. PERIOD. Hahaha, oooh a skill based argument. look bro, i like you, but you can have a 200 H-D ratio and kill me every single time (which BTW you have NEVER done without somebody else shooting at me at the same time from the back or whatnot {whats your name, I.Diversity 2?}, and if you want to go let me know, My Amarr Assault will take good care of you), still doesnt prove you are correct. The HMG might have some damage ''falloff' but its not enough. In maps like Gal Research Lab, where every area is divided in spaces between 15-45 mts, a 1000+ RoF weapon with over 400 bullets that doesnt miss at 35+ mts is broken.... NOT OP, just not working as intended. Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6217	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:35:00 - [25] - Quote Robocop Junior wrote: Last time I saw a member of Molon Labe on top.....it was on another dude. All suck solo. Leadfoot is actually one of the few decent. ;) Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2518	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:37:00 - [26] - Quote Bright Steel wrote: What if the heavy got major dispersion after 20 meters on hip fire, 30m for ADS with additional kick. Then you have a niche you excell at but would need assault escorts on more open terrain? The heavy can hold that room but can't push the hallway, thinking of gal research facility. The assaults could pick off the heavies from down the hall, requiring the defenders to have assaults to push them back, and the heavies would have to stay under cover. Larger maps I can see a heavy escorted by a few assaults with a logi in tow allowing maximum DPS at all ranges. This would give assaults that generalized role with heavies having their niche ^^^ this guy gets it.
Lonewolf Heavy Chaotic Company 185	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:38:00 - [27] - Quote I can't remember the exact range, but I believe HMG damage starts drastically dropping off at about 30m because HMG is CQ-Short range weapon (There is some thread labeling what is considered Short-Medium-Long ranges and exact damage drop off points for weapons but I'm to lazy to dig for it seeing Final is about to begin). Also, I believe they did a ninja heat increase again on the HMG with the update (Check Dev post). https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2506271#post2506271 (normally I would make that neater but I'm using a quick reply) Sentinel/Commando
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2519	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:41:00 - [28] - Quote Robocop Junior wrote: Last time I saw a member of Molon Labe on top.....it was on another dude. All suck solo. So says the guy with the 1.75 KDR...which would put you solidly below average in our corp, incidentally. You might have seen us on top....of the all time corp kills and WP. Where you'd find us #1. Not that any of that matters, really, but since you brought it up....
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6468	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:44:00 - [29] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Bright Steel wrote: What if the heavy got major dispersion after 20 meters on hip fire, 30m for ADS with additional kick. Then you have a niche you excell at but would need assault escorts on more open terrain? The heavy can hold that room but can't push the hallway, thinking of gal research facility. The assaults could pick off the heavies from down the hall, requiring the defenders to have assaults to push them back, and the heavies would have to stay under cover. Larger maps I can see a heavy escorted by a few assaults with a logi in tow allowing maximum DPS at all ranges. This would give assaults that generalized role with heavies having their niche ^^^ this guy gets it. I agree, but I don't see how this was entirely different than the points Ripley was bringing up. Also, I disagree that heavies didn't get a change in 1.10. They no longer have directional arrows on passive scans, so now you can't even choose how to try to engage them, or even evade them, if you so choose. I hate getting tore up at 50m by a heavy even when trying to run away. At 200 to 300 HP its just too accurate at that distance and can still do enough damage that I can neither engage them nor effectively run away if there is no cover near by. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6217	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:45:00 - [30] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Bright Steel wrote: What if the heavy got major dispersion after 20 meters on hip fire, 30m for ADS with additional kick. Then you have a niche you excell at but would need assault escorts on more open terrain? The heavy can hold that room but can't push the hallway, thinking of gal research facility. The assaults could pick off the heavies from down the hall, requiring the defenders to have assaults to push them back, and the heavies would have to stay under cover. Larger maps I can see a heavy escorted by a few assaults with a logi in tow allowing maximum DPS at all ranges. This would give assaults that generalized role with heavies having their niche ^^^ this guy gets it. Yeah, because THATS not what i was saying in the beginning. Quote: So basically: HMG should totally shred everything at Close ranges...as it is doing it right now. HMG should LOOSE to Light weapons outside the 30mts range. pretty close to: Quote: What if the heavy got major dispersion after 20 meters on hip fire, 30m for ADS with additional kick. Then you have a niche you excell at but would need assault escorts on more open terrain? Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7

Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2519	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:46:00 - [31] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: We both know I don't need my squad to kill you. And luckily CCP had the foresight to include the damage falloff dynamic -- you know, the thing that neuters the HMG outside its range. Again, if you're going to complain about the HMG/Sentinel, you should be focused on other attributes. PERIOD. Hahaha, oooh a skill based argument. look bro, i like you, but you can have a 200 H-D ratio and kill me every single time (which BTW you have NEVER done without somebody else shooting at me at the same time from the back or whatnot {whats your name, I.Diversity 2?}, and if you want to go let me know, My Amarr Assault will take good care of you), still doesnt prove you are correct. The HMG might have some damage ''falloff' but its not enough. In maps like Gal Research Lab, where every area is divided in spaces between 15-45 mts, a 1000+ RoF weapon with over 400 bullets that doesnt miss at 35+ mts is broken.... NOT OP, just not working as intended. lol @ "never" As mostly a low-HP shield-based player, I do struggle with Amarr Assaults. :) That said, I truly believe you're focusing on the wrong attribute. The damage falloff is just fine. It's the other features of the HMG that you should be focused on, IMO, if you think the gun is too powerful.
Robocop Junior research lab 829	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:51:00 - [32] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Robocop Junior wrote: Last time I saw a member of Molon Labe on top.....it was on another dude. All suck solo. So says the guy with the 1.75 KDR...which would put you solidly below average in our corp, incidentally. You might have seen us on top....of the all time corp kills and WP. Where you'd find us #1. Not that any of that matters, really, but since you brought it up.... Prove my point for me thank you. Immediately check the KDR lol. I run solo nonstop as well as being corpless for most my time. If I buried myself in the middle of 11 other guys 24/7 for 2 years what do you think it would look like. This character is pure logi. Now if you really wanna play come see my heavy alt. I took him out of your alliance cause I was sick of looking at you guys. Plus all you guys run is Dom & Bush :) If strength were all, tiger would not fear scorpion.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2524	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:52:00 - [33] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Bright Steel wrote: What if the heavy got major dispersion after 20 meters on hip fire, 30m for ADS with additional kick. Then you have a niche you excell at but would need assault escorts on more open terrain? The heavy can hold that room but can't push the hallway, thinking of gal research facility. The assaults could pick off the heavies from down the hall, requiring the defenders to have assaults to push them back, and the heavies would have to stay under cover. Larger maps I can see a heavy escorted by a few assaults with a logi in tow allowing maximum DPS at all ranges. This would give assaults that generalized role with heavies having their niche ^^^ this guy gets it. Yeah, because THATS not what i was saying in the beginning. Quote: So basically: HMG should totally shred everything at Close ranges...as it is doing it right now. HMG should LOOSE to Light weapons outside the 30mts range. pretty close to: Quote: What if the heavy got major dispersion after 20 meters on hip fire, 30m for ADS with additional kick. Then you have a niche you excell at but would need assault escorts on more open terrain? You're right -- that's not what you said. (I suspect you didn't intend to include "not" in the post above). The HMG already does lose to anyone with half a brain at 30+ meters. The problem, if I may be so bold, is that it's too dominant inside its range. And instead of the binary answer you posted the first time, Bright Steel hit on some of the finer points -- and quite accurately from where I sit -- which is why I responded the way that I did to him and not you.
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 639	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:54:00 - [34] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Bright Steel wrote: What if the heavy got major dispersion after 20 meters on hip fire, 30m for ADS with additional kick. Then you have a niche you excell at but would need assault escorts on more open terrain? The heavy can hold that room but can't push the hallway, thinking of gal research facility. The assaults could pick off the heavies from down the hall, requiring the defenders to have assaults to push them back, and the heavies would have to stay under cover. Larger maps I can see a heavy escorted by a few assaults with a logi in tow allowing maximum DPS at all ranges. This would give assaults that generalized role with heavies having their niche ^^^ this guy gets it. Yeah, because THATS not what i was saying in the beginning. Quote: So basically: HMG should totally shred everything at Close ranges...as it is doing it right now. HMG should LOOSE to Light weapons outside the 30mts range. pretty close to: Quote: What if the heavy got major dispersion after 20 meters on hip fire, 30m for ADS with additional kick. Then you have a niche you excell at but would need assault escorts on more open terrain? He was looking at what specific attributes should be adjusted to achieve the lose of damage at <30m Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2524	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:58:00 - [35] - Quote Robocop Junior wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Robocop Junior wrote: Last time I saw a member of Molon Labe on top.....it was on another dude. All suck solo. So says the guy with the 1.75 KDR...which would put you solidly below average in our corp, incidentally. You might have seen us on top....of the all time corp kills and WP. Where you'd find us #1. Not that any of that matters, really, but since you brought it up.... Prove my point for me thank you. Immediately check the KDR lol. I run solo nonstop as well as being corpless for most my time. If I buried myself in the middle of 11 other guys 24/7 for 2 years what do you think it would look like. This character is pure logi. Now if you really wanna play come see my heavy alt. I took him out of your alliance cause I was sick of looking at you guys. Plus all you guys run is Dom & Bush :) What point is that? That you have no idea what you're talking about, and shouldn't have opened your mouth in the first place? Got it.
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 1065	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:59:00 - [36] - Quote Bah heavies. I just OHKO them with may PLC... Most of the time. If not I just blow them away with my trusty Flaylol. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6220	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:59:00 - [37] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: lol @ "never" As mostly a low-HP shield-based player, I do struggle with Amarr Assaults. :) That said, I truly believe you're focusing on the wrong attribute. The damage falloff is just fine. It's the other features of the HMG that you should be focused on, IMO, if you think the gun is too powerful. Ok. LEts imagine here its not the range. There there is STILL something wrong with the Sentinel + HMG + HMG effective RANGE+ Sentinel bonus damage resistance + Weapon damage nerf (remember ,most weapons got a damage nerf and proficiency nerf) = Impossible to take on 1 on 1 unless with R/E FORMULA XD So please, instead of defending the weapon or suit, please tell us what you think its wrong. If you think there is anything at all wrong to start with.... Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2870	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:00:00 - [38] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: binary boy #2 What kind of crappy new age insult is this? "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2603	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:01:00 - [39] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: We are still at it. Easygame sentinels is still a thing. You dont even have to aim, you dont even have to strafe. Grab a mouse and plug it into the USB and try the HMG. It is actually a challenge to keep your circle crosshairs on target enough that you are hitting accurately. Grab the DS3? and the Aim assist makes my HMG hit 90% bullet accuracy when the crosshair is generally over target.. The HMG is perfectly balanced. Aim assist unbalances everything in this game.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2524	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:02:00 - [40] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: binary boy #2 What kind of crappy new age insult is this? One that apparently went over your head. Allow me to explain: The two people I responded to like that were ones that made binary statements....like the ones I quoted. The reality is much more complex. Shades of grey, if you will. Make sense now?

Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2524	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:03:00 - [41] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: lol @ "never" As mostly a low-HP shield-based player, I do struggle with Amarr Assaults. :) That said, I truly believe you're focusing on the wrong attribute. The damage falloff is just fine. It's the other features of the HMG that you should be focused on, IMO, if you think the gun is too powerful. Ok. LEts imagine here its not the range. There there is STILL something wrong with the Sentinel + HMG + HMG effective RANGE+ Sentinel bonus damage resistance + Weapon damage nerf (remember ,most weapons got a damage nerf and proficiency nerf) = Impossible to take on 1 on 1 unless with R/E FORMULA XD So please, instead of defending the weapon or suit, please tell us what you think its wrong. If you think there is anything at all wrong to start with.... I'm not defending the suit/gun. To the contrary, I believe sentinels w/HMG are out of balance. However, I simply think you're barking up the wrong balance tree if you're focused on it's killing power beyond 30m, that's all. And I did make a suggestion when I said this on page 1: "If I may be so bold, what you guys should be focused on is something that decreases the DPS (either dispersion, kick, or RPM or DPB) or EHP...because the issue with Sentinels is not that their range is too large or that you don't have to aim. That's simply wrong, IMO." I also think Bright Steel had some good suggestions.
Robocop Junior research lab 829	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:06:00 - [42] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Robocop Junior wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Robocop Junior wrote: Last time I saw a member of Molon Labe on top.....it was on another dude. All suck solo. So says the guy with the 1.75 KDR...which would put you solidly below average in our corp, incidentally. You might have seen us on top....of the all time corp kills and WP. Where you'd find us #1. Not that any of that matters, really, but since you brought it up.... Prove my point for me thank you. Immediately check the KDR lol. I run solo nonstop as well as being corpless for most my time. If I buried myself in the middle of 11 other guys 24/7 for 2 years what do you think it would look like. This character is pure logi. Now if you really wanna play come see my heavy alt. I took him out of your alliance cause I was sick of looking at you guys. Plus all you guys run is Dom & Bush :) What point is that? That you have no idea what you're talking about, and shouldn't have opened your mouth in the first place? Got it. Disagree? I'm logged in now. Start a squad and let's run a few and see who can back up their words and who cannot. Standing by..... You guys are #1 because you started first and nowhere near as many corps stayed active that long. If I win the race because everyone started 10 minutes after me does that really make me #1? If strength were all, tiger would not fear scorpion.
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6220	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:06:00 - [43] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: The HMG already does lose to anyone with half a brain at 30+ meters. . Thats where you are wrong. You are so used to playing with your buddies XD. Of course 4+ people shooting at a sentinel at 30mts range is an easy win Lead. (XD) But on 1 on 1, PLAYER VS PLAYER of the same rarity equipped (say, PROTO) : 1st- Most Suits dont EVEN HAVE 30MTS RADAR to scan to give you a heads up the sentinel is coming. 2nd- If you stand still and trade fire with a heavy at 30mts You will loose , not only because of the POWER of the HMG but for their EHP values AND damage resistances. Which takes us to the 3rd point: The weapon is so accurate at this ranges that even while strafing you still get 75-85% of the damage done. The circle you need to keep your enemies in is to large and easy to use (at longer ranges). This is the thing: HMG is SO good at MED RANGES, that the ASSAULT HMG is not even considered anymore. And this IS ASSAULT HMG'S PURPOSE XD Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
Robocop Junior research lab 829	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:09:00 - [44] - Quote Amen. I rocked the freedom assault for nearly 6 months before a 3 month hiatus. Now it seems the basic hmg is just as good if not better at range. If strength were all, tiger would not fear scorpion.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2524	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:11:00 - [45] - Quote I run solo all the time, and I run away from my squad as well. I have no trouble shredding heavies stupid enough to engage me at that distance solo. Please stop trying to box me into a corner because I disagree with you here. The lolAssault HMG is a round peg for a square hole -- light weapons are simply more usable at medium distances and provide some movement speed to make them effective. And by the way, the circle means nothing -- the dot matters. Do you even HMG? I'm not going to continue to repeat myself -- I've made the point I wanted to make: You're focusing on the wrong attribute if you're focused on damage falloff as the imbalancing attribute of the HMG.
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 639	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:11:00 - [46] - Quote -sits back with lunch and watches- "Pause, I got to pee" "Ok, I'm back" Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2525	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:20:00 - [47] - Quote Robocop Junior wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Robocop Junior wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Robocop Junior wrote: Last time I saw a member of Molon Labe on top.....it was on another dude. All suck solo. So says the guy with the 1.75 KDR...which would put you solidly below average in our corp, incidentally. You might have seen us on top....of the all time corp kills and WP. Where you'd find us #1. Not that any of that matters, really, but since you brought it up.... Prove my point for me thank you. Immediately check the KDR lol. I run solo nonstop as well as being corpless for most my time. If I buried myself in the middle of 11 other guys 24/7 for 2 years what do you think it would look like. This character is pure logi. Now if you really wanna play come see my heavy alt. I took him out of your alliance cause I was sick of looking at you guys. Plus all you guys run is Dom & Bush :) What point is that? That you have no idea what you're talking about, and shouldn't have opened your mouth in the first place? Got it. Disagree? I'm logged in now. Start a squad and let's run a few and see who can back up their words and who cannot. Standing by..... You guys are #1 because you started first and nowhere near as many corps stayed active that long. If I win the race because everyone started 10 minutes after me does that really make me #1? The leaderboard doesn't lie, but the excuses sure seem to flow when you're confronted with some facts.... Does that mean you don't want to squad? Can't say I'm surprised. lol
Robocop Junior research lab 830	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:24:00 - [48] - Quote Sure. If strength were all, tiger would not fear scorpion.
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6221	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:28:00 - [49] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: I run solo all the time, and I run away from my squad as well. I have no trouble shredding heavies stupid enough to engage me at that distance solo. Please stop trying to box me into a corner because I disagree with you here. The lolAssault HMG is a round peg for a square hole -- light weapons are simply more usable at medium distances and provide some movement speed to make them effective. And by the way, the circle means nothing -- the dot matters. Do you even HMG? I'm not going to continue to repeat myself -- I've made the point I wanted to make: You're focusing on the wrong attribute if you're focused on damage falloff as the imbalancing attribute of the HMG. Exactly. you just mentioned the DOT. The DOT matters? NOT WITH AIM ASSIST LEAD. Good for you for shredding random heavies. +1 Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2526	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:31:00 - [50] - Quote Log on Checkmate, and let's the 3 of us run a few and discuss this. I think we're talking past each other at this point. And so you know, my KDR is much better when I run solo. I typically am a passive scanning scout (i.e. paper thin) when I run in a squad, and I don't try as hard to win knowing I cannot affect the battle as much solo as when in a squad. And TBH, I don't judge people on KDR. It's a bad way to judge things, I think. I judge players by how they act in game. I just threw out KDR because of the troll's comments -- which I probably should have ignored. But, much like how I act when someone kills me in-game, I come after those who come after me or my friends...I can be rather hard headed in this regard.

Robocop Junior research lab 830	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:37:00 - [51] - Quote I'm on. Half way done with this match. If strength were all, tiger would not fear scorpion.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5368	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:39:00 - [52] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: We are still at it. Easygame sentinels is still a thing. You dont even have to aim, you dont even have to strafe. 1.10 was not intended to fix that. The issue is still being looked into. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2309	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:43:00 - [53] - Quote M/1 Sentinel + Six Kin Burst HMG + Core Flaylock + Red Objective Spawnpoint = Tons of Laughs (not too shabby on kills either) Dust514/Legion should be a(n): [_] Arcade Lobby Shooter [X] Sci-fi Military Sim
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5700	Posted - 2014.12.09 18:03:00 - [54] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: The HMG already does lose to anyone with half a brain at 30+ meters. . Thats where you are wrong. You are so used to playing with your buddies XD. Of course 4+ people shooting at a sentinel at 30mts range is an easy win Lead. (XD) But on 1 on 1, PLAYER VS PLAYER of the same rarity equipped (say, PROTO) : 1st- Most Suits dont EVEN HAVE 30MTS RADAR to scan to give you a heads up the sentinel is coming. 2nd- If you stand still and trade fire with a heavy at 30mts You will loose , not only because of the POWER of the HMG but for their EHP values AND damage resistances. Which takes us to the 3rd point: The weapon is so accurate at this ranges that even while strafing you still get 75-85% of the damage done. The circle you need to keep your enemies in is to large and easy to use (at longer ranges). This is the thing: HMG is SO good at MED RANGES, that the ASSAULT HMG is not even considered anymore. And this IS ASSAULT HMG'S PURPOSE XD This is a nice batch of disinformation you have here. Let me set you straight on something because it's the only point you make worth a comment since nothing anyone says to the contrary about the HMG losing 50% of its DPS outright to dispersion and falloff at 31 meters will be acknowledged as relevant by you. But back to the point: The assault HMG isn't used because you can't beat anyone with it 1v1 except in edge cases. The weapon is utter trash in it's current incarnation. Running a standard assault rifle works better. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6222	Posted - 2014.12.09 18:08:00 - [55] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: This is a nice batch of disinformation you have here. Let me set you straight on something because it's the only point you make worth a comment since nothing anyone says to the contrary about the HMG losing 50% of its DPS outright to dispersion and falloff at 31 meters will be acknowledged as relevant by you. But back to the point: The assault HMG isn't used because you can't beat anyone with it 1v1 except in edge cases. The weapon is utter trash in it's current incarnation. Running a standard assault rifle works better. Thats NOT the point at all. The Point is that HMG's are too effective outside their Optimal range. Same as SCR Rifles used to, by preforming better than SG's At CQ engagements? well yeah... Thats the point, IMO. LEad says that the issue is not the HMG. but i dont know what he thinks its broken here. And other people say its the Suit.... Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2527	Posted - 2014.12.09 18:17:00 - [56] - Quote If you can, Log in, Checkmate. Robocop and I are squadded up now. Let's talk through this rather than talk past each other on the forums.
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1043	Posted - 2014.12.09 18:27:00 - [57] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: If you can, Log in, Checkmate. Robocop and I are squadded up now. Let's talk through this rather than talk past each other on the forums. The aim of the forum is to discuss these kind of things here and not in game... Wtf?? One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2527	Posted - 2014.12.09 19:01:00 - [58] - Quote Sometimes things are lost typing. I've found that people tend to be much more reasonable (myself included) when we can talk through things. That's all. I promise to report back what we discuss/find. First observation -- Robocop (aka Doctor Vinnie Boombotz) is a very good heavy. Alas, his mic is broken.....so still a bit tough to communicate.
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game RUST415 866	Posted - 2014.12.09 19:11:00 - [59] - Quote Bright Steel wrote: pagl1u M wrote: We are still at it. Easygame sentinels is still a thing. You dont even have to aim, you dont even have to strafe. As someone with crappy aim I can assure you that you have to aim. Especially with the burst HMG The HMG only hits if you get the center dot in the person, not the big circle... There was a thread on it a while back this is no longer true. a fix was applied i also tested it and proved that you will be hit anywhere within that circle. not often on the edges. but anyone who says you dont have to aim is still an idiot.
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6222	Posted - 2014.12.09 19:11:00 - [60] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Log on Checkmate, and let's the 3 of us run a few and discuss this. I think we're talking past each other at this point. And so you know, my KDR is much better when I run solo. I typically am a passive scanning scout (i.e. paper thin) when I run in a squad, and I don't try as hard to win knowing I cannot affect the battle as much solo as when in a squad. And TBH, I don't judge people on KDR. It's a bad way to judge things, I think. I judge players by how they act in game. I just threw out KDR because of the trollish comments -- which I probably should have ignored. But, much like how I act when someone kills me in-game, I come after those who come after me or my friends...I can be rather hard headed in this regard...and KDR be damned. I accept you invitation. Just not for today. If im not mistaken is the last day of LP week and i've sacrificed ALL of my ISK (the remaining XD) in getting my APEX Seraph and Dragon suits. And im still at 70k LP and i need to grind 30k just today. I get 3800LP per win so i still have enoug hwork to do... I usually play after work , around 8.30pm Central time. So, from tomorrow on it will be ok. I'll msge you. Funny, i could swear i've fought you on an ASSAULT suits. not a scout. At least not that i remember. I dont even know what my K-D is. I swear. I think it might be around 2.7 maybe.... well, after this week probably around 2.5 since i've been going negative EVERY SINGLE AMarr FW i play solo... thats what i get for giving a d@mn... Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7

CrotchGrab 360 Yon Hyaku Nijuu Moyase 1631	Posted - 2014.12.09 19:15:00 - [61] - Quote the only way to change this without nerfing the suits themselves (and the people who just use HMGs/forges) is to make it so the heavy suit can only fit heavy weapons. I agree with OP, sick of losing firefights to scrubs just because they had more health but less skill. Somebody out there will always be better and have more HP but this is pure overcompensating for a severe lack of skill. DUST VIDEOS
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2529	Posted - 2014.12.09 19:25:00 - [62] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Log on Checkmate, and let's the 3 of us run a few and discuss this. I think we're talking past each other at this point. And so you know, my KDR is much better when I run solo. I typically am a passive scanning scout (i.e. paper thin) when I run in a squad, and I don't try as hard to win knowing I cannot affect the battle as much solo as when in a squad. And TBH, I don't judge people on KDR. It's a bad way to judge things, I think. I judge players by how they act in game. I just threw out KDR because of the trollish comments -- which I probably should have ignored. But, much like how I act when someone kills me in-game, I come after those who come after me or my friends...I can be rather hard headed in this regard...and KDR be damned. I accept you invitation. Just not for today. If im not mistaken is the last day of LP week and i've sacrificed ALL of my ISK (the remaining XD) in getting my APEX Seraph and Dragon suits. And im still at 70k LP and i need to grind 30k just today. I get 3800LP per win so i still have enoug hwork to do... I usually play after work , around 8.30pm Central time. So, from tomorrow on it will be ok. I'll msge you. Funny, i could swear i've fought you on an ASSAULT suits. not a scout. At least not that i remember. I dont even know what my K-D is. I swear. I think it might be around 2.7 maybe.... well, after this week probably around 2.5 since i've been going negative EVERY SINGLE AMarr FW i play solo... thats what i get for giving a d@mn... No worries, we'll do it some other time. Having fun running with Robocop. FWIW, I run Assault the least of all my suits -- I'd guess 1% of the time -- although I suspect that will change with 1.10....Scouts got a serious nerf. Probably 80% scout, 10% heavy, 10% logi.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5701	Posted - 2014.12.09 19:55:00 - [63] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: This is a nice batch of disinformation you have here. Let me set you straight on something because it's the only point you make worth a comment since nothing anyone says to the contrary about the HMG losing 50% of its DPS outright to dispersion and falloff at 31 meters will be acknowledged as relevant by you. But back to the point: The assault HMG isn't used because you can't beat anyone with it 1v1 except in edge cases. The weapon is utter trash in it's current incarnation. Running a standard assault rifle works better. Thats NOT the point at all. The Point is that HMG's are too effective outside their Optimal range. Same as SCR Rifles used to, by preforming better than SG's At CQ engagements? well yeah... Thats the point, IMO. LEad says that the issue is not the HMG. but i dont know what he thinks its broken here. And other people say its the Suit.... Putting the Sentinel in the CQC role to begin with was a mistake. Our happy fun times today I predicted in Beta when they made the HMG a point blank weapon (which makes no sense whatsoever). But the blunt fact is CQC negates every disadvantage a heavy has. Period. end. stop. It isn't the EHP, the cold fact is that CQC is the only place where Sentinels can overcome easily every inherent problem with the dropsuits. And in order to balance the HMG so that it didn't simply get stomped into the mud they had to ramp it up to 11. The weapon IS the problem, the environment is the problem. the lack of open area maps is a MAJOR problem for caldari balance overall. but the bizarre and incomprehensible decision to say "It's a heavy machinegun! It makes sense that it only works at spitball range! means that the damn thing will always balance on a razor's edge and a couple decimel changes ANYWHERE in the game can cause it to overperform or turn to utter crap. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6227	Posted - 2014.12.09 20:02:00 - [64] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Putting the Sentinel in the CQC role to begin with was a mistake. Our happy fun times today I predicted in Beta when they made the HMG a point blank weapon (which makes no sense whatsoever). But the blunt fact is CQC negates every disadvantage a heavy has. Period. end. stop. It isn't the EHP, the cold fact is that CQC is the only place where Sentinels can overcome easily every inherent problem with the dropsuits. And in order to balance the HMG so that it didn't simply get stomped into the mud they had to ramp it up to 11. The weapon IS the problem, the environment is the problem. the lack of open area maps is a MAJOR problem for caldari balance overall. but the bizarre and incomprehensible decision to say "It's a heavy machinegun! It makes sense that it only works at spitball range! means that the damn thing will always balance on a razor's edge and a couple decimel changes ANYWHERE in the game can cause it to overperform or turn to utter crap. ITs not the sentinel. ITs the HMG that has the CQ role. Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5701	Posted - 2014.12.09 20:05:00 - [65] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Putting the Sentinel in the CQC role to begin with was a mistake. Our happy fun times today I predicted in Beta when they made the HMG a point blank weapon (which makes no sense whatsoever). But the blunt fact is CQC negates every disadvantage a heavy has. Period. end. stop. It isn't the EHP, the cold fact is that CQC is the only place where Sentinels can overcome easily every inherent problem with the dropsuits. And in order to balance the HMG so that it didn't simply get stomped into the mud they had to ramp it up to 11. The weapon IS the problem, the environment is the problem. the lack of open area maps is a MAJOR problem for caldari balance overall. but the bizarre and incomprehensible decision to say "It's a heavy machinegun! It makes sense that it only works at spitball range! means that the damn thing will always balance on a razor's edge and a couple decimel changes ANYWHERE in the game can cause it to overperform or turn to utter crap. ITs not the sentinel. ITs the HMG that has the CQ role. That statement to this day makes no sense. HMG should never have been a CQC weapon to begin with. But it definitely takes advantage of the fact that heavy drawbacks are meaningless in CQC. It's not JUST the HMG, and until you lot start recognizing that rather like scouts there are MULTIPLE contributing factors, not just a single issue this discussion will go nowhere. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2530	Posted - 2014.12.09 20:46:00 - [66] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: ITs not the sentinel. ITs the HMG that has the CQ role. [/b] That statement to this day makes no sense. HMG should never have been a CQC weapon to begin with. But it definitely takes advantage of the fact that heavy drawbacks are meaningless in CQC. It's not JUST the HMG, and until you lot start recognizing that rather like scouts there are MULTIPLE contributing factors, not just a single issue this discussion will go nowhere. It may make no sense to you, but King's dead on, IMO. And I think there are a total of 5 people that agree with you that "HMG should never have been a CQC weapon to begin with"...and that's why your proposals to change the sentinel/HMG were, for the most part, ignored. Rattati will balance the Sentinel / HMG issue out, of that I have no doubt. Let's give him a chance to look at this one and address it, shall we?
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6229	Posted - 2014.12.09 20:54:00 - [67] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: FWIW, I run Assault the least of all my suits -- I'd guess 1% of the time -- although I suspect that will change with 1.10....Scouts got a serious nerf. If you foced me to guess, I run probably 80% scout, 15% heavy, 5% logi. Well...who knows. All min suits look alike to me... (YOU DO run Min scouts at least right? if not, then i never see you when you kill me hehe) Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2530	Posted - 2014.12.09 21:00:00 - [68] - Quote That's kind of the point, King, of running passive scanning scout suits. If you see me first, I'm generally dead.... And you're wrong again. I run 90% Cal Scout when I'm in a scout suit, and the other 10% of the time I'm in the Amarr Scout. Let's run tomorrow night and talk through this....I should be on.
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6229	Posted - 2014.12.09 21:05:00 - [69] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: That's kind of the point, King, of running passive scanning scout suits. If you see me first, I'm generally dead.... And you're wrong again. Min is the only race I don't play, lol. I run, in order of frequency: Cal Scout, Am Scout, Am Sentinel, Gal Logi, Cal Logi, Cal Assault, Gal Assault. Let's run tomorrow night and talk through this....I should be on. Hmm. Ok So My Amarr scout will be used next time i see you on the enemy side... XD 2cx Prec Enhancers and Proto Focused Scans for you bro. (as you probably already noticed, my situational awareness is of 0% ) Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2530	Posted - 2014.12.09 21:08:00 - [70] - Quote That will work....the first time....maybe the 2nd, then my "sneaky amarr" comes out (i.e. double dampened with 2 range amps and 2 precision enhancers). You will not scan me in that suit, but as you know, they become paper thin at that point.

Izlare Lenix Titans of Phoenix 1167	Posted - 2014.12.09 21:16:00 - [71] - Quote The real reason why everyone will flock to hmg is because of active scanners. Scouts will have to be paper thin to avoid the best scanner and medium frames can't avoid the best and also must be low ehp to avoid average scanners. So if your going to be scanned at 100+ meters you might as well have 1500 hp and a 850+ dps death ray with 50 meter killing range. HMG spam has always been an issue but the true reign of the fatties has begun. The only winner of WWIII will be the cockroaches.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5703	Posted - 2014.12.09 21:16:00 - [72] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: ITs not the sentinel. ITs the HMG that has the CQ role. [/b] That statement to this day makes no sense. HMG should never have been a CQC weapon to begin with. But it definitely takes advantage of the fact that heavy drawbacks are meaningless in CQC. It's not JUST the HMG, and until you lot start recognizing that rather like scouts there are MULTIPLE contributing factors, not just a single issue this discussion will go nowhere. It may make no sense to you, but King's dead on, IMO. And I think there are a total of 5 people that agree with you that "HMG should never have been a CQC weapon to begin with"...and that's why your proposals to change the sentinel/HMG were, for the most part, ignored. Rattati will balance the Sentinel / HMG issue out, of that I have no doubt. Let's give him a chance to look at this one and address it -- and in the meantime provide feedback on 1.10 -- shall we? I'm still seeing that thread necro'd up every few days with more people supporting it. Nice to see you think it's dumb, but I don't really care about you. and no, king isn't dead on. You all are flailing about screaming about the symptoms rather than looking for a solution. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2532	Posted - 2014.12.09 21:20:00 - [73] - Quote I don't think it's dumb, I simply disagree, and if you will look at my 3rd post in this thread, I proposed some changes....effectively reducing the DPS of the HMG or reducing the EHP of the Sentinel suit. And how much would you like to wager that CCP Rattati will agree with me (and tweak one of those statistics) rather than you as to where the next round of nerfs to the HMG/Sentinel will occur? I'll put 20M ISK up. You game?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5704	Posted - 2014.12.09 21:26:00 - [74] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: I don't think it's dumb, I simply disagree, and if you will look at my 3rd post in this thread, I proposed some changes....effectively reducing the DPS of the HMG or reducing the EHP of the Sentinel suit. And how much would you like to wager that CCP Rattati will agree with me (and tweak one of those statistics) rather than you as to where the next round of nerfs to the HMG/Sentinel will occur? I'll put 20M ISK up. You game? yours is the low hanging fruit and wouldn't require coding to add a turn speed penalty to the HMG, Boundless HMG and MH-82 HMG. Whenever actual "work" is involved CCP is notorious for trying to find an easy copout that will kinda patch the problem over. no bet. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2532	Posted - 2014.12.09 21:27:00 - [75] - Quote Fair enough. For those interested in Breakin's proposal, please see this thread.
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6230	Posted - 2014.12.09 21:52:00 - [76] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: That will work....the first time....maybe the 2nd, then my "sneaky amarr" comes out (i.e. double dampened with 2 range amps and 2 precision enhancers w/proto cloak). You will not scan me in that suit, but as you know, they become paper thin at that point... it has less than 300hp. I can. I use a Proto FOcused A.Scanner on my Amarr scout too n.n :P (plus i think an Amarr scout with 2cx precision enhancers CAN indeed scan another AMarr/Min with 2 cx damps...unless he is proto cloaked. At least thats how it used to be {not gal and cal because they ALSO have 15% damp bonus}) I MIGHT be wrong , but hey im excused. cuz im a scrub. Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2535	Posted - 2014.12.09 22:46:00 - [77] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: That will work....the first time....maybe the 2nd, then my "sneaky amarr" comes out (i.e. double dampened with 2 range amps and 2 precision enhancers w/proto cloak). You will not scan me in that suit, but as you know, they become paper thin at that point... it has less than 300hp. I can. I use a Proto FOcused A.Scanner on my Amarr scout too n.n :P (plus i think an Amarr scout with 2cx precision enhancers CAN indeed scan another AMarr/Min with 2 cx damps...unless he is proto cloaked. At least thats how it used to be {not gal and cal because they ALSO have 15% damp bonus}) I MIGHT be wrong , but hey im excused. cuz im a scrub. Yup, that's right. Takes 3 damps w/proto cloak on the Amarr scout to become invisible
Powerh8er The Rainbow Effect 565	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:45:00 - [78] - Quote HMG sentinels are one nerf from being total useless as their only role is to kill other dropsuits. BTW My min assault with combat rifle just eats heavies for breakfeast, what are you doing wrong?
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6232	Posted - 2014.12.10 00:05:00 - [79] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: That will work....the first time....maybe the 2nd, then my "sneaky amarr" comes out (i.e. double dampened with 2 range amps and 2 precision enhancers w/proto cloak). You will not scan me in that suit, but as you know, they become paper thin at that point... it has less than 300hp. I can. I use a Proto FOcused A.Scanner on my Amarr scout too n.n :P (plus i think an Amarr scout with 2cx precision enhancers CAN indeed scan another AMarr/Min with 2 cx damps...unless he is proto cloaked. At least thats how it used to be {not gal and cal because they ALSO have 15% damp bonus}) I MIGHT be wrong , but hey im excused. cuz im a scrub. Yup, that's right (the amarr being able to pick up double dampened am scout until the proto cloak engaged). The proto focused on your scout won't get me though. Takes 3 damps w/proto cloak on the Amarr scout (@ 14 dB) to become invisible to the Gal Logi proto focused (@ 15dB). Bottom line: Dampening wins. Not quite. You see, to equip 3x cx dampeners you have to SEVERELY gimp your suit. Compared to my 575 armor amarr ak.0 scout with A.Scanner and 2 cx precision enhancers you are running practically nude. And even if i cant scan you with my focused, if you are wearing 3 cx damps, the message ''SOME MARGIN OF ERROR'' would actually be enough to know you are around.... XD We'll see. We also have pending to squad up...and next time i find you alone, to brawl... Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1051	Posted - 2014.12.10 00:09:00 - [80] - Quote Powerh8er wrote: HMG sentinels are one nerf from being total useless as their only role is to kill other dropsuits. This is probably the stupidest thing I have ever read. One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!

Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 472	Posted - 2014.12.10 01:32:00 - [81] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: WARxion ForDUST wrote: ITT: He got killed by a Sentinel. Yes, I got killed a lot of times in my proto gal assault by a std or adv sentinels. They have worse aim than me, they just stand still and they destroy me. Working as intended. And THIS is why your post is lacking. Instead of taking the time to comment on the situation and remove all potential factors that affected your death (you didn't even comment on the situation -- all you said was that Sentinels kill you) you immediately assumed that they can't aim as well as you. The Entitlement is strong with this one. Ripley Riley wrote: Also, who the ** decided they get to be CQC masters? When did that discussion happen? Which CCP employee stated that? Been that way forever. CCP decided that. Did you think the players get to decide the role? That's like me coming in here and saying scouts shouldn't have ewar or equipment slots. "Who the decided that scouts role is to observe the enemy!?" Please consider your statement on this one... Bethhy wrote:** Grab a mouse and plug it into the USB and try the HMG. It is actually a challenge to keep your circle crosshairs on target enough that you are hitting accurately. Grab the DS3? and the Aim assist makes my HMG hit 90% bullet accuracy when the crosshair is generally over target.. Aim assist unbalances everything in this game. That is an interesting possibility. I always have aim assist off so I can't comment on its veracity -- but I never considered that the HMG dispersion might be cancelled out by aim assist.... Regardless, all of this aside, Sentinels are very good in CQC we can all agree. And as Ripley pointed out -- once the heavies are on a point you really have to go engage them or the game is lost. And the VAST MAJORITY of points are in CQC where heavies are great and not open areas (where heavies are literally the worst class.) The majority of problems would be solved if there was less CQC areas for heavies to dominate in objective game modes. Remember, heavies on Ambush in the largely open maps fair very poorly.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5708	Posted - 2014.12.10 02:09:00 - [82] - Quote That's funny because the HMG is supposed to be a weapon AA doesn't work on. If AA is actually helping it that goes a long way in explaining why it seems to be over performing. I use a mouse so no AA. I don't have a pet logi and I don't equipment spam. I generally find the sentinel suits die easy. But I do things the hard way instinctively. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Kayla Michael Tactical Logistics and Cargo Northern Associates. 42	Posted - 2014.12.10 02:20:00 - [83] - Quote You mean "scout 514". I can basically can say the same with that class. Because you don't have to be visible to win, just hide in chicken mode, and cherry pick the opponent. IN MY OPINION I think the scout is the most disagreeable, because of the cheap mode they have. Additionally they don't scout, they're assassins...
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1053	Posted - 2014.12.10 12:05:00 - [84] - Quote Kayla Michael wrote: You mean "scout 514". I can basically can say the same with that class. Because you don't have to be visible to win, just hide in chicken mode, and cherry pick the opponent. IN MY OPINION I think the scout is the most disagreeable, because of the cheap mode they have. Additionally they don't scout, they're assassins... Scouts got nerfed with 1.10 Sentinels got buffed One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5711	Posted - 2014.12.10 13:21:00 - [85] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: Powerh8er wrote: HMG sentinels are one nerf from being total useless as their only role is to kill other dropsuits. This is probably the stupidest thing I have ever read. If for no other reason than he apparently hasn't figured out that Forge Guns Exist. Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not thrilled with the sentinel spam, and I think it's crap. I've been doing sentinels pretty much through all of the best and worst times. Unfortunately this is one of the worst. I don't consider specific suit class spam because it's less difficult "Good times." Mostly the fact that people have figured out how to min/max the sentinels in their role via buddy logi farming, or equipment drops or the dreaded Three-HMG-Salute is pretty much a lot of what's going on. If the maps had more useful open areas and things like hack points weren't all clustered around CQC areas there'd be more use for assaults. But as it stands, most of the game is played in building complexes now, with few rare exceptions. Couple that with the fact that all of the rifles ate a nerf at the same time sentinels got their resists added and... Yeah. It's not JUST the HMG that's a problem. The sentinel's weaknesses and resist profiles would make more sense in open ground combat where they could be expected to eat more bullets, and be exposed more to the weapons that absolutely tear them to ribbons (like the charged sniper) rather than depending upon packs of shotty and RE scouts to crash into and break the line. The HMG is an entirely different problem because it always has, and in my opinion always will, dance the razor's edge of OP and useless so long as it's exclusively a CQC weapon. So far in my opinion the burst is the only balanced version of the HMG right now because it's just as likely that the operator overheats and kills himself as it is that he kills someone else unless he has the heat timing PERFECT. My primary objection in this thread is you seem to be latching on to symptoms of the problem rather than the problems themselves, and are looking in a direction that will not balance the HMG but utterly render it worthless. A lot of your suggestions have been tried in the past, and they turned out to be horrendous. My idea for a turn speed penalty would make a CQC weapon worthless but it provides a functional weak point for a Long Range suppression weapon. I am of the opinion that the HMG is overall poorly designed, and I blame the community we had during beta for demanding it be turned into basically what we have now by popular accord as much as I am annoyed at the devs for listening. Because they gave it suicide range they had to remove the turn penalties because heavies were too easy... then they had to buff the damage... then buff it again... then TTK became too short so they nerfed the rifles (my mind is boggled here). But honestly I think that the battle rifles need to be returned to 1.whatever levels and have that nerf reverted, OR the HMG needs to have it's damage or RoF brought down by the average damage output of the battle rifles. I'm not stupid enough to claim that effectively buffing sentinels by 25-35% on average vs. the weapons meant to drill them (when you combine the average nerfing with the resist bonuses) didn't create a problem. The math in my brain makes my head hurt because I can't think of a logical reason why they DID that. This is a give and take thing. To be clear, I fully support the idea that yes, this is a problem. I simly disagree with you on the implementation of a solution. That solution HAS to take the form of either a nerf, or the eviction of the standard and potentially assault HMGs from CQC roles because sustained fire, lunatic DPS combined with a dozen other factors makes sentinels in CQC nigh unstoppable. It's kinda like my take on scouts. It wasn't the EWAR, or the speed, or the hit glitching, or the REs or any other single factor that made them an overall problem. It was a synergy between multiple factors that combined into a big ball of insanity. So please read my commentary WITHOUT the brain filter of "Breakin wants to protect the OPness of the Sentinel." I think the sentinel would be fine if we had more open area maps. But since we don't, and CQC dominates, it's long past time to adjust either the role of the weapons, or buff the assaults by reverting the battle rifles, or a direct nerf to heavies. I just want to see the above implemented incrementally. I also firmly believe that the sentinel should be considered a support suit best used in concert in support of an assault squad, not the go-to suit for murdering everything with impunity. Does that clarify my stance here a bit? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1087	Posted - 2014.12.10 13:30:00 - [86] - Quote If I were 1,500HP Sentinel with a 900 DPS weapon, I'd expect my back to be my weakspot. I'd never dream to ask for insta-spin; such an ability would allow to me to protect my weakspot too easily. Any unit who seeks to eliminate me should be angling for a flank, and it should be my highest priority to keep them from successfully getting behind me. Those who I catch should be obliterated. But when one does succeed in flanking me, I must accept my death. This is the only to justify my massive HP reserves and DPS.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5711	Posted - 2014.12.10 13:41:00 - [87] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: If I were 1,500HP Sentinel with a 900 DPS weapon, I'd expect my back to be my weakspot. I'd never dream to ask for insta-spin; such an ability would allow to me to protect my weakspot too easily. Any unit who seeks to eliminate me should be angling for a flank, and it should be my highest priority to keep them from successfully getting behind me. Those who I catch should be obliterated. But when one does succeed in flanking me, I must accept my death. This is the only to justify my massive HP reserves and DPS. It doesn't balance out, unfortunately. What happens when you have a turn speed penalty on a CQC weapon is you always lose to the person who simply orbits around you and shoots you in the side of the head. Literally the only people you can kill are the lemmings who run at you firing in a straight line or stand still. turn speed penalties can work to balance a ranged weapon so that while it is a beast at range, the instant you get into CQC you can strafe around it shooting it in the side of the head. Just don't let him get a bead on you before you hit 20m. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13706	Posted - 2014.12.10 13:47:00 - [88] - Quote Or, ya know, give it the 10% damage nerf that all rifles got before people started complaining about the HMG? Does no one really see the obvious correlation here? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y General Tso's Alliance 278	Posted - 2014.12.10 13:49:00 - [89] - Quote You go down wind of any assault based rifle around 60-70m in a heavy suit and then say that crap :/ G.L.O.R.Y Soldier, I'm that Amarr heavy you warn your team about <3 -Heavy/Logi/Assault/Scout-
xavier zor Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 371	Posted - 2014.12.10 13:51:00 - [90] - Quote Robocop Junior wrote: As opposed to scout where all you have to do is strafe? wow just...you need to aim. To slay in a scout suit, and slay anything, you need to strafe and aim. My to-do list when i return to dust: Logi my own way to an OB, and never use the cloak on my minja! And have some ISK!

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5711	Posted - 2014.12.10 13:52:00 - [91] - Quote Mortishai Belmont wrote: You go down wind of any assault based rifle around 60-70m in a heavy suit and then say that crap :/ I do all the time. with a forge gun. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
xavier zor Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 371	Posted - 2014.12.10 13:57:00 - [92] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: WARxion ForDUST wrote: ITT: He got killed by a Sentinel. Yes, I got killed a lot of times in my proto gal assault by a std or adv sentinels. They have worse aim than me, they just stand still and they destroy me. Working as intended. Maybe you should not stand still. My to-do list when i return to dust: Logi my own way to an OB, and never use the cloak on my minja! And have some ISK!
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1088	Posted - 2014.12.10 14:01:00 - [93] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: If I were 1,500HP Sentinel with a 900 DPS weapon, I'd expect my back to be my weakspot. I'd never dream to ask for insta-spin; such an ability would allow to me to protect my weakspot too easily. Any unit who seeks to eliminate me should be angling for a flank, and it should be my highest priority to keep them from successfully getting behind me. Those who I catch should be obliterated. But when one does succeed in flanking me, I must accept my death. This is the only to justify my massive HP reserves and DPS. It doesn't balance out, unfortunately. What happens when you have a turn speed penalty on a CQC weapon is you always lose to the person who simply orbits around you and shoots you in the side of the head. Literally the only people you can kill are the lemmings who run at you firing in a straight line or stand still. turn speed penalties can work to balance a ranged weapon so that while it is a beast at range, the instant you get into CQC you can strafe around it shooting it in the side of the head. Just don't let him get a bead on you before you hit 20m. I believe you. We saw it in early Uprising. These are more my "expectations" of a multiplayer game ... Why does this unit come with the very best Sword and a Shield twice as big as everyone else's? Oh ... its slow and it has a tough-to-defend bigass weakspot on its back ... its Havel. As it pertains to Dust, I suspect we could find mechanical means by which to prevent the orbiting scenario. If not, then Rattati is likely right that heat is our best bet. Let the titan swing. If he hits you, you lose. If he misses, you win. To take down the titan more reliably, rush him in pairs. He'll only get one of you.
Sinboto Simmons Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 6676	Posted - 2014.12.10 14:08:00 - [94] - Quote this thread is long.... Anyway, I'll agree that the sents are a bit uber powerful right now, but still their job as heavies is to be a walking tank. They aren't impossible to kill yeah, harder than a midframe obviously, they do have some good counters though. The only thing I can really say that's odd in balancing them would be the fact they turn so fast/strafe, and the grenade slot. Why do they have a grenade slot? That's like putting another main gun on a tank.....it's usually a flux nade too. (Minja no like) Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 Born of the Brutor tribe
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1058	Posted - 2014.12.10 15:33:00 - [95] - Quote xavier zor wrote: pagl1u M wrote: WARxion ForDUST wrote: ITT: He got killed by a Sentinel. Yes, I got killed a lot of times in my proto gal assault by a std or adv sentinels. They have worse aim than me, they just stand still and they destroy me. Working as intended. Maybe you should not stand still. Plz teach me how to play, master! One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!


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