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Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2509	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:32:00 - [1] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: So basically: HMG should totally shred everything at Close ranges...as it is doing it right now. HMG should LOOSE to Light weapons outside the 30mts range. Period. Thanks for your input, binary boy. If you're dying to a HMG outside 30m with any frequency, you suck.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2511	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:43:00 - [2] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: So basically: HMG should totally shred everything at Close ranges...as it is doing it right now. HMG should LOOSE to Light weapons outside the 30mts range. Period. Thanks for your input, binary boy. If you're dying to a HMG outside 30m with any frequency, you suck. If you cannot see they are overpowered you are either a sentinel or really stupid What does their being OP have to do with dying to them outside 30m? Again, binary boy, if you're dying to HMGs outside 30m with any frequency, you suck. And so you know, I'm hardly stupid, and I play every role Dust has to offer except commando.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2511	Posted - 2014.12.09 15:48:00 - [3] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Thanks for your input, binary boy. If you're dying to a HMG outside 30m with any frequency, you suck. Trouble is, players engage in fire fights on parts of the map where 30m or less ranges are very commonplace, thereby making the HMG sentinel a highly durable K/D padding murdersuit. They are the masters of CQC, they should rule in that range. But to call out Sentinels for being OP because of their range is simply stupidity, IMO.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2516	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:13:00 - [4] - Quote Ripley, CCP decided Sentinels should be CQC masters -- check the description -- and they have been since day 1 of Dust. And if you want to get one out of an enclosed area, either you need to be sneaky about it (knives, SG, explosives, hit/run), run a Sentinel yourself, or bring friends -- it's not that hard really unless you expect to be able to 1:1 them by going toe-to-toe.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2518	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:29:00 - [5] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: So basically: HMG should totally shred everything at Close ranges...as it is doing it right now. HMG should LOOSE to Light weapons outside the 30mts range. Period. Thanks for your input, binary boy. If you're dying to a HMG outside 30m with any frequency, you suck. IF im dying to HMG's at 30mts range is because the weapon is making damage at that range that it shouldnt. period ANd what are you talking about skill? players who are ALWAYS in squads have no right to talk to me like that ;) We both know I don't need my squad to kill you, repeatedly. And, thankfully, CCP had the foresight to include the damage falloff dynamic -- you know, the thing that neuters the HMG outside its range. Again, if you're going to complain about the HMG/Sentinel, you should be focused on other attributes. PERIOD.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2518	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:37:00 - [6] - Quote Bright Steel wrote: What if the heavy got major dispersion after 20 meters on hip fire, 30m for ADS with additional kick. Then you have a niche you excell at but would need assault escorts on more open terrain? The heavy can hold that room but can't push the hallway, thinking of gal research facility. The assaults could pick off the heavies from down the hall, requiring the defenders to have assaults to push them back, and the heavies would have to stay under cover. Larger maps I can see a heavy escorted by a few assaults with a logi in tow allowing maximum DPS at all ranges. This would give assaults that generalized role with heavies having their niche ^^^ this guy gets it.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2519	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:41:00 - [7] - Quote Robocop Junior wrote: Last time I saw a member of Molon Labe on top.....it was on another dude. All suck solo. So says the guy with the 1.75 KDR...which would put you solidly below average in our corp, incidentally. You might have seen us on top....of the all time corp kills and WP. Where you'd find us #1. Not that any of that matters, really, but since you brought it up....
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2519	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:46:00 - [8] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: We both know I don't need my squad to kill you. And luckily CCP had the foresight to include the damage falloff dynamic -- you know, the thing that neuters the HMG outside its range. Again, if you're going to complain about the HMG/Sentinel, you should be focused on other attributes. PERIOD. Hahaha, oooh a skill based argument. look bro, i like you, but you can have a 200 H-D ratio and kill me every single time (which BTW you have NEVER done without somebody else shooting at me at the same time from the back or whatnot {whats your name, I.Diversity 2?}, and if you want to go let me know, My Amarr Assault will take good care of you), still doesnt prove you are correct. The HMG might have some damage ''falloff' but its not enough. In maps like Gal Research Lab, where every area is divided in spaces between 15-45 mts, a 1000+ RoF weapon with over 400 bullets that doesnt miss at 35+ mts is broken.... NOT OP, just not working as intended. lol @ "never" As mostly a low-HP shield-based player, I do struggle with Amarr Assaults. :) That said, I truly believe you're focusing on the wrong attribute. The damage falloff is just fine. It's the other features of the HMG that you should be focused on, IMO, if you think the gun is too powerful.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2524	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:52:00 - [9] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Bright Steel wrote: What if the heavy got major dispersion after 20 meters on hip fire, 30m for ADS with additional kick. Then you have a niche you excell at but would need assault escorts on more open terrain? The heavy can hold that room but can't push the hallway, thinking of gal research facility. The assaults could pick off the heavies from down the hall, requiring the defenders to have assaults to push them back, and the heavies would have to stay under cover. Larger maps I can see a heavy escorted by a few assaults with a logi in tow allowing maximum DPS at all ranges. This would give assaults that generalized role with heavies having their niche ^^^ this guy gets it. Yeah, because THATS not what i was saying in the beginning. Quote: So basically: HMG should totally shred everything at Close ranges...as it is doing it right now. HMG should LOOSE to Light weapons outside the 30mts range. pretty close to: Quote: What if the heavy got major dispersion after 20 meters on hip fire, 30m for ADS with additional kick. Then you have a niche you excell at but would need assault escorts on more open terrain? You're right -- that's not what you said. (I suspect you didn't intend to include "not" in the post above). The HMG already does lose to anyone with half a brain at 30+ meters. The problem, if I may be so bold, is that it's too dominant inside its range. And instead of the binary answer you posted the first time, Bright Steel hit on some of the finer points -- and quite accurately from where I sit -- which is why I responded the way that I did to him and not you.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2524	Posted - 2014.12.09 16:58:00 - [10] - Quote Robocop Junior wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Robocop Junior wrote: Last time I saw a member of Molon Labe on top.....it was on another dude. All suck solo. So says the guy with the 1.75 KDR...which would put you solidly below average in our corp, incidentally. You might have seen us on top....of the all time corp kills and WP. Where you'd find us #1. Not that any of that matters, really, but since you brought it up.... Prove my point for me thank you. Immediately check the KDR lol. I run solo nonstop as well as being corpless for most my time. If I buried myself in the middle of 11 other guys 24/7 for 2 years what do you think it would look like. This character is pure logi. Now if you really wanna play come see my heavy alt. I took him out of your alliance cause I was sick of looking at you guys. Plus all you guys run is Dom & Bush :) What point is that? That you have no idea what you're talking about, and shouldn't have opened your mouth in the first place? Got it.

Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2524	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:02:00 - [11] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: binary boy #2 What kind of crappy new age insult is this? One that apparently went over your head. Allow me to explain: The two people I responded to like that were ones that made binary statements....like the ones I quoted. The reality is much more complex. Shades of grey, if you will. Make sense now?
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2524	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:03:00 - [12] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: lol @ "never" As mostly a low-HP shield-based player, I do struggle with Amarr Assaults. :) That said, I truly believe you're focusing on the wrong attribute. The damage falloff is just fine. It's the other features of the HMG that you should be focused on, IMO, if you think the gun is too powerful. Ok. LEts imagine here its not the range. There there is STILL something wrong with the Sentinel + HMG + HMG effective RANGE+ Sentinel bonus damage resistance + Weapon damage nerf (remember ,most weapons got a damage nerf and proficiency nerf) = Impossible to take on 1 on 1 unless with R/E FORMULA XD So please, instead of defending the weapon or suit, please tell us what you think its wrong. If you think there is anything at all wrong to start with.... I'm not defending the suit/gun. To the contrary, I believe sentinels w/HMG are out of balance. However, I simply think you're barking up the wrong balance tree if you're focused on it's killing power beyond 30m, that's all. And I did make a suggestion when I said this on page 1: "If I may be so bold, what you guys should be focused on is something that decreases the DPS (either dispersion, kick, or RPM or DPB) or EHP...because the issue with Sentinels is not that their range is too large or that you don't have to aim. That's simply wrong, IMO." I also think Bright Steel had some good suggestions.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2524	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:11:00 - [13] - Quote I run solo all the time, and I run away from my squad as well. I have no trouble shredding heavies stupid enough to engage me at that distance solo. Please stop trying to box me into a corner because I disagree with you here. The lolAssault HMG is a round peg for a square hole -- light weapons are simply more usable at medium distances and provide some movement speed to make them effective. And by the way, the circle means nothing -- the dot matters. Do you even HMG? I'm not going to continue to repeat myself -- I've made the point I wanted to make: You're focusing on the wrong attribute if you're focused on damage falloff as the imbalancing attribute of the HMG.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2525	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:20:00 - [14] - Quote Robocop Junior wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Robocop Junior wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Robocop Junior wrote: Last time I saw a member of Molon Labe on top.....it was on another dude. All suck solo. So says the guy with the 1.75 KDR...which would put you solidly below average in our corp, incidentally. You might have seen us on top....of the all time corp kills and WP. Where you'd find us #1. Not that any of that matters, really, but since you brought it up.... Prove my point for me thank you. Immediately check the KDR lol. I run solo nonstop as well as being corpless for most my time. If I buried myself in the middle of 11 other guys 24/7 for 2 years what do you think it would look like. This character is pure logi. Now if you really wanna play come see my heavy alt. I took him out of your alliance cause I was sick of looking at you guys. Plus all you guys run is Dom & Bush :) What point is that? That you have no idea what you're talking about, and shouldn't have opened your mouth in the first place? Got it. Disagree? I'm logged in now. Start a squad and let's run a few and see who can back up their words and who cannot. Standing by..... You guys are #1 because you started first and nowhere near as many corps stayed active that long. If I win the race because everyone started 10 minutes after me does that really make me #1? The leaderboard doesn't lie, but the excuses sure seem to flow when you're confronted with some facts.... Does that mean you don't want to squad? Can't say I'm surprised. lol
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2526	Posted - 2014.12.09 17:31:00 - [15] - Quote Log on Checkmate, and let's the 3 of us run a few and discuss this. I think we're talking past each other at this point. And so you know, my KDR is much better when I run solo. I typically am a passive scanning scout (i.e. paper thin) when I run in a squad, and I don't try as hard to win knowing I cannot affect the battle as much solo as when in a squad. And TBH, I don't judge people on KDR. It's a bad way to judge things, I think. I judge players by how they act in game. I just threw out KDR because of the troll's comments -- which I probably should have ignored. But, much like how I act when someone kills me in-game, I come after those who come after me or my friends...I can be rather hard headed in this regard.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2527	Posted - 2014.12.09 18:17:00 - [16] - Quote If you can, Log in, Checkmate. Robocop and I are squadded up now. Let's talk through this rather than talk past each other on the forums.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2527	Posted - 2014.12.09 19:01:00 - [17] - Quote Sometimes things are lost typing. I've found that people tend to be much more reasonable (myself included) when we can talk through things. That's all. I promise to report back what we discuss/find. First observation -- Robocop (aka Doctor Vinnie Boombotz) is a very good heavy. Alas, his mic is broken.....so still a bit tough to communicate.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2529	Posted - 2014.12.09 19:25:00 - [18] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Log on Checkmate, and let's the 3 of us run a few and discuss this. I think we're talking past each other at this point. And so you know, my KDR is much better when I run solo. I typically am a passive scanning scout (i.e. paper thin) when I run in a squad, and I don't try as hard to win knowing I cannot affect the battle as much solo as when in a squad. And TBH, I don't judge people on KDR. It's a bad way to judge things, I think. I judge players by how they act in game. I just threw out KDR because of the trollish comments -- which I probably should have ignored. But, much like how I act when someone kills me in-game, I come after those who come after me or my friends...I can be rather hard headed in this regard...and KDR be damned. I accept you invitation. Just not for today. If im not mistaken is the last day of LP week and i've sacrificed ALL of my ISK (the remaining XD) in getting my APEX Seraph and Dragon suits. And im still at 70k LP and i need to grind 30k just today. I get 3800LP per win so i still have enoug hwork to do... I usually play after work , around 8.30pm Central time. So, from tomorrow on it will be ok. I'll msge you. Funny, i could swear i've fought you on an ASSAULT suits. not a scout. At least not that i remember. I dont even know what my K-D is. I swear. I think it might be around 2.7 maybe.... well, after this week probably around 2.5 since i've been going negative EVERY SINGLE AMarr FW i play solo... thats what i get for giving a d@mn... No worries, we'll do it some other time. Having fun running with Robocop. FWIW, I run Assault the least of all my suits -- I'd guess 1% of the time -- although I suspect that will change with 1.10....Scouts got a serious nerf. Probably 80% scout, 10% heavy, 10% logi.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2530	Posted - 2014.12.09 20:46:00 - [19] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: ITs not the sentinel. ITs the HMG that has the CQ role. [/b] That statement to this day makes no sense. HMG should never have been a CQC weapon to begin with. But it definitely takes advantage of the fact that heavy drawbacks are meaningless in CQC. It's not JUST the HMG, and until you lot start recognizing that rather like scouts there are MULTIPLE contributing factors, not just a single issue this discussion will go nowhere. It may make no sense to you, but King's dead on, IMO. And I think there are a total of 5 people that agree with you that "HMG should never have been a CQC weapon to begin with"...and that's why your proposals to change the sentinel/HMG were, for the most part, ignored. Rattati will balance the Sentinel / HMG issue out, of that I have no doubt. Let's give him a chance to look at this one and address it, shall we?
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2530	Posted - 2014.12.09 21:00:00 - [20] - Quote That's kind of the point, King, of running passive scanning scout suits. If you see me first, I'm generally dead.... And you're wrong again. I run 90% Cal Scout when I'm in a scout suit, and the other 10% of the time I'm in the Amarr Scout. Let's run tomorrow night and talk through this....I should be on.

Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2530	Posted - 2014.12.09 21:08:00 - [21] - Quote That will work....the first time....maybe the 2nd, then my "sneaky amarr" comes out (i.e. double dampened with 2 range amps and 2 precision enhancers). You will not scan me in that suit, but as you know, they become paper thin at that point.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2532	Posted - 2014.12.09 21:20:00 - [22] - Quote I don't think it's dumb, I simply disagree, and if you will look at my 3rd post in this thread, I proposed some changes....effectively reducing the DPS of the HMG or reducing the EHP of the Sentinel suit. And how much would you like to wager that CCP Rattati will agree with me (and tweak one of those statistics) rather than you as to where the next round of nerfs to the HMG/Sentinel will occur? I'll put 20M ISK up. You game?
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2532	Posted - 2014.12.09 21:27:00 - [23] - Quote Fair enough. For those interested in Breakin's proposal, please see this thread.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2535	Posted - 2014.12.09 22:46:00 - [24] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: That will work....the first time....maybe the 2nd, then my "sneaky amarr" comes out (i.e. double dampened with 2 range amps and 2 precision enhancers w/proto cloak). You will not scan me in that suit, but as you know, they become paper thin at that point... it has less than 300hp. I can. I use a Proto FOcused A.Scanner on my Amarr scout too n.n :P (plus i think an Amarr scout with 2cx precision enhancers CAN indeed scan another AMarr/Min with 2 cx damps...unless he is proto cloaked. At least thats how it used to be {not gal and cal because they ALSO have 15% damp bonus}) I MIGHT be wrong , but hey im excused. cuz im a scrub. Yup, that's right. Takes 3 damps w/proto cloak on the Amarr scout to become invisible