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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2519
   |
Posted - 2014.12.09 16:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:We both know I don't need my squad to kill you.
And luckily CCP had the foresight to include the damage falloff dynamic -- you know, the thing that neuters the HMG outside its range.
Again, if you're going to complain about the HMG/Sentinel, you should be focused on other attributes.
PERIOD. Hahaha, oooh a skill based argument. look bro, i like you, but you can have a 200 H-D ratio and kill me every single time ( which BTW you have NEVER done without somebody else shooting at me at the same time from the back or whatnot {whats your name, I.Diversity 2?}, and if you want to go let me know, My Amarr Assault will take good care of you), still doesnt prove you are correct. The HMG might have some damage ''falloff' but its not enough. In maps like Gal Research Lab, where every area is divided in spaces between 15-45 mts, a 1000+ RoF weapon with over 400 bullets that doesnt miss at 35+ mts is broken.... NOT OP, just not working as intended.
lol @ "never"
As mostly a low-HP shield-based player, I do struggle with Amarr Assaults. :)
That said, I truly believe you're focusing on the wrong attribute. The damage falloff is just fine. It's the other features of the HMG that you should be focused on, IMO, if you think the gun is too powerful. |
Robocop Junior
research lab
829
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 16:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Robocop Junior wrote:Last time I saw a member of Molon Labe on top.....it was on another dude. All suck solo. So says the guy with the 1.75 KDR...which would put you solidly below average in our corp, incidentally. You might have seen us on top....of the all time corp kills and WP. Where you'd find us #1. Not that any of that matters, really, but since you brought it up....
Prove my point for me thank you. Immediately check the KDR lol. I run solo nonstop as well as being corpless for most my time. If I buried myself in the middle of 11 other guys 24/7 for 2 years what do you think it would look like. This character is pure logi. Now if you really wanna play come see my heavy alt. I took him out of your alliance cause I was sick of looking at you guys. Plus all you guys run is Dom & Bush :)
If strength were all, tiger would not fear scorpion.
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2524
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 16:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Bright Steel wrote:What if the heavy got major dispersion after 20 meters on hip fire, 30m for ADS with additional kick. Then you have a niche you excell at but would need assault escorts on more open terrain?
The heavy can hold that room but can't push the hallway, thinking of gal research facility.
The assaults could pick off the heavies from down the hall, requiring the defenders to have assaults to push them back, and the heavies would have to stay under cover.
Larger maps I can see a heavy escorted by a few assaults with a logi in tow allowing maximum DPS at all ranges.
This would give assaults that generalized role with heavies having their niche ^^^ this guy gets it. Yeah, because THATS not what i was saying in the beginning. Quote:So basically:
HMG should totally shred everything at Close ranges...as it is doing it right now.
HMG should LOOSE to Light weapons outside the 30mts range. pretty close to: Quote:What if the heavy got major dispersion after 20 meters on hip fire, 30m for ADS with additional kick. Then you have a niche you excell at but would need assault escorts on more open terrain?
You're right -- that's not what you said. (I suspect you didn't intend to include "not" in the post above).
The HMG already does lose to anyone with half a brain at 30+ meters.
The problem, if I may be so bold, is that it's too dominant inside its range.
And instead of the binary answer you posted the first time, Bright Steel hit on some of the finer points -- and quite accurately from where I sit -- which is why I responded the way that I did to him and not you. |
Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
639
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Posted - 2014.12.09 16:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Bright Steel wrote:What if the heavy got major dispersion after 20 meters on hip fire, 30m for ADS with additional kick. Then you have a niche you excell at but would need assault escorts on more open terrain?
The heavy can hold that room but can't push the hallway, thinking of gal research facility.
The assaults could pick off the heavies from down the hall, requiring the defenders to have assaults to push them back, and the heavies would have to stay under cover.
Larger maps I can see a heavy escorted by a few assaults with a logi in tow allowing maximum DPS at all ranges.
This would give assaults that generalized role with heavies having their niche ^^^ this guy gets it. Yeah, because THATS not what i was saying in the beginning. Quote:So basically:
HMG should totally shred everything at Close ranges...as it is doing it right now.
HMG should LOOSE to Light weapons outside the 30mts range. pretty close to: Quote:What if the heavy got major dispersion after 20 meters on hip fire, 30m for ADS with additional kick. Then you have a niche you excell at but would need assault escorts on more open terrain?
He was looking at what specific attributes should be adjusted to achieve the lose of damage at <30m
Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2524
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 16:58:00 -
[35] - Quote
Robocop Junior wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Robocop Junior wrote:Last time I saw a member of Molon Labe on top.....it was on another dude. All suck solo. So says the guy with the 1.75 KDR...which would put you solidly below average in our corp, incidentally. You might have seen us on top....of the all time corp kills and WP. Where you'd find us #1. Not that any of that matters, really, but since you brought it up.... Prove my point for me thank you. Immediately check the KDR lol. I run solo nonstop as well as being corpless for most my time. If I buried myself in the middle of 11 other guys 24/7 for 2 years what do you think it would look like. This character is pure logi. Now if you really wanna play come see my heavy alt. I took him out of your alliance cause I was sick of looking at you guys. Plus all you guys run is Dom & Bush :)
What point is that?
That you have no idea what you're talking about, and shouldn't have opened your mouth in the first place?
Got it.
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LUGMOS
YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE
1065
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 16:59:00 -
[36] - Quote
Bah heavies. I just OHKO them with may PLC... Most of the time. If not I just blow them away with my trusty Flaylol.
Official QuafeGäó Advocate
Anti-FoTM Prof. V
Forum Scavenger Prof. V
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KING CHECKMATE
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
6220
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 16:59:00 -
[37] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:
lol @ "never"
As mostly a low-HP shield-based player, I do struggle with Amarr Assaults. :)
That said, I truly believe you're focusing on the wrong attribute. The damage falloff is just fine. It's the other features of the HMG that you should be focused on, IMO, if you think the gun is too powerful.
Ok. LEts imagine here its not the range. There there is STILL something wrong with the
Sentinel + HMG + HMG effective RANGE+ Sentinel bonus damage resistance + Weapon damage nerf (remember ,most weapons got a damage nerf and proficiency nerf) = Impossible to take on 1 on 1 unless with R/E
FORMULA XD
So please, instead of defending the weapon or suit, please tell us what you think its wrong. If you think there is anything at all wrong to start with....
Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
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Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
2870
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:00:00 -
[38] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:binary boy #2
What kind of crappy new age insult is this?
"You see those red dots over there?
Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
2603
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
pagl1u M wrote:We are still at it.
Easygame sentinels is still a thing.
You dont even have to aim, you dont even have to strafe.
Grab a mouse and plug it into the USB and try the HMG.
It is actually a challenge to keep your circle crosshairs on target enough that you are hitting accurately.
Grab the DS3? and the Aim assist makes my HMG hit 90% bullet accuracy when the crosshair is generally over target..
The HMG is perfectly balanced.
Aim assist unbalances everything in this game. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2524
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:02:00 -
[40] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:binary boy #2 What kind of crappy new age insult is this?
One that apparently went over your head. Allow me to explain:
The two people I responded to like that were ones that made binary statements....like the ones I quoted.
The reality is much more complex.
Shades of grey, if you will.
Make sense now?
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2524
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:03:00 -
[41] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:
lol @ "never"
As mostly a low-HP shield-based player, I do struggle with Amarr Assaults. :)
That said, I truly believe you're focusing on the wrong attribute. The damage falloff is just fine. It's the other features of the HMG that you should be focused on, IMO, if you think the gun is too powerful.
Ok. LEts imagine here its not the range. There there is STILL something wrong with the Sentinel + HMG + HMG effective RANGE+ Sentinel bonus damage resistance + Weapon damage nerf (remember ,most weapons got a damage nerf and proficiency nerf) = Impossible to take on 1 on 1 unless with R/E FORMULA XD So please, instead of defending the weapon or suit, please tell us what you think its wrong. If you think there is anything at all wrong to start with....
I'm not defending the suit/gun. To the contrary, I believe sentinels w/HMG are out of balance. However, I simply think you're barking up the wrong balance tree if you're focused on it's killing power beyond 30m, that's all.
And I did make a suggestion when I said this on page 1:
"If I may be so bold, what you guys should be focused on is something that decreases the DPS (either dispersion, kick, or RPM or DPB) or EHP...because the issue with Sentinels is not that their range is too large or that you don't have to aim. That's simply wrong, IMO."
I also think Bright Steel had some good suggestions. |
Robocop Junior
research lab
829
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:06:00 -
[42] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Robocop Junior wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Robocop Junior wrote:Last time I saw a member of Molon Labe on top.....it was on another dude. All suck solo. So says the guy with the 1.75 KDR...which would put you solidly below average in our corp, incidentally. You might have seen us on top....of the all time corp kills and WP. Where you'd find us #1. Not that any of that matters, really, but since you brought it up.... Prove my point for me thank you. Immediately check the KDR lol. I run solo nonstop as well as being corpless for most my time. If I buried myself in the middle of 11 other guys 24/7 for 2 years what do you think it would look like. This character is pure logi. Now if you really wanna play come see my heavy alt. I took him out of your alliance cause I was sick of looking at you guys. Plus all you guys run is Dom & Bush :) What point is that? That you have no idea what you're talking about, and shouldn't have opened your mouth in the first place? Got it. Disagree? I'm logged in now. Start a squad and let's run a few and see who can back up their words and who cannot. Standing by.....
You guys are #1 because you started first and nowhere near as many corps stayed active that long. If I win the race because everyone started 10 minutes after me does that really make me #1?
If strength were all, tiger would not fear scorpion.
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KING CHECKMATE
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
6220
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:06:00 -
[43] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:
The HMG already does lose to anyone with half a brain at 30+ meters.
.
Thats where you are wrong. You are so used to playing with your buddies XD.
Of course 4+ people shooting at a sentinel at 30mts range is an easy win Lead.
(XD)
But on 1 on 1, PLAYER VS PLAYER of the same rarity equipped (say, PROTO) :
1st- Most Suits dont EVEN HAVE 30MTS RADAR to scan to give you a heads up the sentinel is coming.
2nd- If you stand still and trade fire with a heavy at 30mts You will loose , not only because of the POWER of the HMG but for their EHP values AND damage resistances.
Which takes us to the 3rd point: The weapon is so accurate at this ranges that even while strafing you still get 75-85% of the damage done. The circle you need to keep your enemies in is to large and easy to use (at longer ranges).
This is the thing: HMG is SO good at MED RANGES, that the ASSAULT HMG is not even considered anymore. And this IS ASSAULT HMG'S PURPOSE XD
Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
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Robocop Junior
research lab
829
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
Amen. I rocked the freedom assault for nearly 6 months before a 3 month hiatus. Now it seems the basic hmg is just as good if not better at range.
If strength were all, tiger would not fear scorpion.
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2524
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:11:00 -
[45] - Quote
I run solo all the time, and I run away from my squad as well. I have no trouble shredding heavies stupid enough to engage me at that distance solo. Please stop trying to box me into a corner because I disagree with you here.
The lolAssault HMG is a round peg for a square hole -- light weapons are simply more usable at medium distances and provide some movement speed to make them effective.
And by the way, the circle means nothing -- the dot matters. Do you even HMG?
I'm not going to continue to repeat myself -- I've made the point I wanted to make: You're focusing on the wrong attribute if you're focused on damage falloff as the imbalancing attribute of the HMG. |
Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
639
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
-sits back with lunch and watches-
"Pause, I got to pee"
"Ok, I'm back"
Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2525
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:20:00 -
[47] - Quote
Robocop Junior wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Robocop Junior wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Robocop Junior wrote:Last time I saw a member of Molon Labe on top.....it was on another dude. All suck solo. So says the guy with the 1.75 KDR...which would put you solidly below average in our corp, incidentally. You might have seen us on top....of the all time corp kills and WP. Where you'd find us #1. Not that any of that matters, really, but since you brought it up.... Prove my point for me thank you. Immediately check the KDR lol. I run solo nonstop as well as being corpless for most my time. If I buried myself in the middle of 11 other guys 24/7 for 2 years what do you think it would look like. This character is pure logi. Now if you really wanna play come see my heavy alt. I took him out of your alliance cause I was sick of looking at you guys. Plus all you guys run is Dom & Bush :) What point is that? That you have no idea what you're talking about, and shouldn't have opened your mouth in the first place? Got it. Disagree? I'm logged in now. Start a squad and let's run a few and see who can back up their words and who cannot. Standing by..... You guys are #1 because you started first and nowhere near as many corps stayed active that long. If I win the race because everyone started 10 minutes after me does that really make me #1?
The leaderboard doesn't lie, but the excuses sure seem to flow when you're confronted with some facts....
Does that mean you don't want to squad?
Can't say I'm surprised.
lol |
Robocop Junior
research lab
830
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:24:00 -
[48] - Quote
Sure.
If strength were all, tiger would not fear scorpion.
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KING CHECKMATE
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
6221
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:I run solo all the time, and I run away from my squad as well. I have no trouble shredding heavies stupid enough to engage me at that distance solo. Please stop trying to box me into a corner because I disagree with you here.
The lolAssault HMG is a round peg for a square hole -- light weapons are simply more usable at medium distances and provide some movement speed to make them effective.
And by the way, the circle means nothing -- the dot matters. Do you even HMG?
I'm not going to continue to repeat myself -- I've made the point I wanted to make: You're focusing on the wrong attribute if you're focused on damage falloff as the imbalancing attribute of the HMG.
Exactly. you just mentioned the DOT.
The DOT matters?
NOT WITH AIM ASSIST LEAD.
Good for you for shredding random heavies. +1
Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2526
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
Log on Checkmate, and let's the 3 of us run a few and discuss this. I think we're talking past each other at this point.
And so you know, my KDR is much better when I run solo. I typically am a passive scanning scout (i.e. paper thin) when I run in a squad, and I don't try as hard to win knowing I cannot affect the battle as much solo as when in a squad.
And TBH, I don't judge people on KDR. It's a bad way to judge things, I think. I judge players by how they act in game. I just threw out KDR because of the troll's comments -- which I probably should have ignored. But, much like how I act when someone kills me in-game, I come after those who come after me or my friends...I can be rather hard headed in this regard. |
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Robocop Junior
research lab
830
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:37:00 -
[51] - Quote
I'm on. Half way done with this match.
If strength were all, tiger would not fear scorpion.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
5368
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:39:00 -
[52] - Quote
pagl1u M wrote:We are still at it.
Easygame sentinels is still a thing.
You dont even have to aim, you dont even have to strafe.
1.10 was not intended to fix that. The issue is still being looked into.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
2309
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
M/1 Sentinel +
Six Kin Burst HMG +
Core Flaylock +
Red Objective Spawnpoint =
Tons of Laughs (not too shabby on kills either)
Dust514/Legion should be a(n):
[_] Arcade Lobby Shooter
[X] Sci-fi Military Sim
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5700
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 18:03:00 -
[54] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:
The HMG already does lose to anyone with half a brain at 30+ meters.
.
Thats where you are wrong. You are so used to playing with your buddies XD. Of course 4+ people shooting at a sentinel at 30mts range is an easy win Lead. (XD) But on 1 on 1, PLAYER VS PLAYER of the same rarity equipped (say, PROTO) : 1st- Most Suits dont EVEN HAVE 30MTS RADAR to scan to give you a heads up the sentinel is coming. 2nd- If you stand still and trade fire with a heavy at 30mts You will loose , not only because of the POWER of the HMG but for their EHP values AND damage resistances. Which takes us to the 3rd point: The weapon is so accurate at this ranges that even while strafing you still get 75-85% of the damage done. The circle you need to keep your enemies in is to large and easy to use (at longer ranges). This is the thing: HMG is SO good at MED RANGES, that the ASSAULT HMG is not even considered anymore. And this IS ASSAULT HMG'S PURPOSE XD
This is a nice batch of disinformation you have here.
Let me set you straight on something because it's the only point you make worth a comment since nothing anyone says to the contrary about the HMG losing 50% of its DPS outright to dispersion and falloff at 31 meters will be acknowledged as relevant by you.
But back to the point:
The assault HMG isn't used because you can't beat anyone with it 1v1 except in edge cases. The weapon is utter trash in it's current incarnation. Running a standard assault rifle works better.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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KING CHECKMATE
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
6222
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 18:08:00 -
[55] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
This is a nice batch of disinformation you have here.
Let me set you straight on something because it's the only point you make worth a comment since nothing anyone says to the contrary about the HMG losing 50% of its DPS outright to dispersion and falloff at 31 meters will be acknowledged as relevant by you.
But back to the point:
The assault HMG isn't used because you can't beat anyone with it 1v1 except in edge cases. The weapon is utter trash in it's current incarnation. Running a standard assault rifle works better.
Thats NOT the point at all.
The Point is that HMG's are too effective outside their Optimal range.
Same as SCR Rifles used to, by preforming better than SG's At CQ engagements?
well yeah...
Thats the point, IMO.
LEad says that the issue is not the HMG. but i dont know what he thinks its broken here. And other people say its the Suit....
Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2527
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 18:17:00 -
[56] - Quote
If you can, Log in, Checkmate. Robocop and I are squadded up now. Let's talk through this rather than talk past each other on the forums. |
pagl1u M
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1043
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 18:27:00 -
[57] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:If you can, Log in, Checkmate. Robocop and I are squadded up now. Let's talk through this rather than talk past each other on the forums.
The aim of the forum is to discuss these kind of things here and not in game... Wtf??
One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2527
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 19:01:00 -
[58] - Quote
Sometimes things are lost typing. I've found that people tend to be much more reasonable (myself included) when we can talk through things. That's all. I promise to report back what we discuss/find.
First observation -- Robocop (aka Doctor Vinnie Boombotz) is a very good heavy.  Alas, his mic is broken.....so still a bit tough to communicate. |
boba's fetta
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
866
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 19:11:00 -
[59] - Quote
Bright Steel wrote:pagl1u M wrote:We are still at it.
Easygame sentinels is still a thing.
You dont even have to aim, you dont even have to strafe. As someone with crappy aim I can assure you that you have to aim. Especially with the burst HMG The HMG only hits if you get the center dot in the person, not the big circle... There was a thread on it a while back
this is no longer true. a fix was applied i also tested it and proved that you will be hit anywhere within that circle. not often on the edges. but anyone who says you dont have to aim is still an idiot.
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KING CHECKMATE
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
6222
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 19:11:00 -
[60] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Log on Checkmate, and let's the 3 of us run a few and discuss this. I think we're talking past each other at this point.
And so you know, my KDR is much better when I run solo. I typically am a passive scanning scout (i.e. paper thin) when I run in a squad, and I don't try as hard to win knowing I cannot affect the battle as much solo as when in a squad.
And TBH, I don't judge people on KDR. It's a bad way to judge things, I think. I judge players by how they act in game. I just threw out KDR because of the trollish comments -- which I probably should have ignored. But, much like how I act when someone kills me in-game, I come after those who come after me or my friends...I can be rather hard headed in this regard...and KDR be damned.
I accept you invitation.
Just not for today. If im not mistaken is the last day of LP week and i've sacrificed ALL of my ISK (the remaining XD) in getting my APEX Seraph and Dragon suits. And im still at 70k LP and i need to grind 30k just today. I get 3800LP per win so i still have enoug hwork to do...
I usually play after work , around 8.30pm Central time.
So, from tomorrow on it will be ok. I'll msge you.
Funny, i could swear i've fought you on an ASSAULT suits. not a scout. At least not that i remember.
I dont even know what my K-D is. I swear. I think it might be around 2.7 maybe.... well, after this week probably around 2.5 since i've been going negative EVERY SINGLE AMarr FW i play solo... thats what i get for giving a d@mn...
Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
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