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DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6265	Posted - 2014.12.03 03:35:00 - [1] - Quote Just because a weapon is used often does not mean it is necessarily overpowered. Neither are underused weapons underpowered. A great example is the Laser Rifle. It is a very underused weapon and yet it is extremely powerful when it us used. Which makes it just barely balanced. The BAR is another great example. It is said to be overpowered because it is used more than any of the other AR types. Yet, people using the Breach AR tend to get very similar K/D's to people using the Tactical Assault Rifle and Burst Assault Rifle. Yet both of those weapons are considered underpowered. Do you see the logical fallacy in the argumentation of many of these nerf and buff posts that assume that overused is synonymous to overpowered? It is a fallacy that is terribly incorrect and cancerous for the community. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 637	Posted - 2014.12.03 03:38:00 - [2] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Just because a weapon is used often does not mean it is necessarily overpowered. Neither are underused weapons underpowered. A great example is the Laser Rifle. It is a very underused weapon and yet it is extremely powerful when it us used. Which makes it just barely balanced. The BAR is another great example. It is said to be overpowered because it is used more than any of the other AR types. Yet, people using the Breach AR tend to get very similar K/D's to people using the Tactical Assault Rifle and Burst Assault Rifle. Yet both of those weapons are considered underpowered. Do you see the logical fallacy in the argumentation of many of these nerf and buff posts that assume that overused is synonymous to overpowered? It is a fallacy that is terribly incorrect and cancerous for the community. I'm sorry friend but you are simply wrong and here's why: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_dominance Next you will tell me that Terran wasn't OP when SC2 hit... I know we all like to pretend everyone but ourselves in these games are all aspies but we really aren't.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6307	Posted - 2014.12.03 03:44:00 - [3] - Quote I would agree if that were the only data used to determine whether or not something was over powered or not. The problem is that the other data used, like wp/d etc often corroborates the sales data. The fact is, in a competitive setting people use what is most effective, and in a game like Dust where there is a cost associated with death, that market data is more reliable than normal, though not totally perfect. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6266	Posted - 2014.12.03 03:44:00 - [4] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Just because a weapon is used often does not mean it is necessarily overpowered. Neither are underused weapons underpowered. A great example is the Laser Rifle. It is a very underused weapon and yet it is extremely powerful when it us used. Which makes it just barely balanced. The BAR is another great example. It is said to be overpowered because it is used more than any of the other AR types. Yet, people using the Breach AR tend to get very similar K/D's to people using the Tactical Assault Rifle and Burst Assault Rifle. Yet both of those weapons are considered underpowered. Do you see the logical fallacy in the argumentation of many of these nerf and buff posts that assume that overused is synonymous to overpowered? It is a fallacy that is terribly incorrect and cancerous for the community. I'm sorry friend but you are simply wrong and here's why: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_dominance Next you will tell me that Terran wasn't OP when SC2 hit... I know we all like to pretend everyone but ourselves in these games are all aspies but we really aren't. I didn't even understand half of what you were referencing. Though, from what I did gather I have managed a rebuttal: Strategy Gëá Weapon Check & mate. Also, by your choosing of that argument I see that you have missed the conclusion of my original plea. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6266	Posted - 2014.12.03 03:47:00 - [5] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: I would agree if that were the only data used to determine whether or not something was over powered or not. The problem is that the other data used, like wp/d etc often corroborates the sales data. The fact is, in a competitive setting people use what is most effective, and in a game like Dust where there is a cost associated with death, that market data is more reliable than normal, though not totally perfect. It is an extremely innacurate method of choosing what to define as being overpowered though. Because sales data simply means that an item is being lost more consistently in battle. That can actually mean a weapon is actually performing more meekly since its users are dieing more often. The duplicity in this data is impossible to over look. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 1006	Posted - 2014.12.03 03:54:00 - [6] - Quote Actually, there is more at play here. Let's take your example of the laser rifle. If it were used more, it would not be overpowered. Why? Because it takes more "skill" to use and it is a niche weapon. It cannot kill in close range effectively and will be outperformed vastly by close range weapons in CQC, so it has a weakness. Let's compare it to the BAR. It takes about the same skill "skill" to use, seeing that they both have ridiculously accurate hipfire, no kick, and laser accurate. However, the Breach AR has more range than its regular variant, but doesn't do as well at range. Like the laser rifle, it has the potential to kill multiple people in one clip. However, it can disengage and then reengage, not like the laser rifle, where it has to be in one sitting. The laser rifle is also held back by its relatively low ammo reserves, while the breach is not. Also, the breach can cover multiple ranges, both close and medium, equally effectively, while the laser rifle does not. There is also a discrepancy in the meaning of breach and this weapon's range. Typical breaches occur in CQC range, where it should absolutely dominate. However, for some odd reason, it does not lose range compared to its regular variant. Just another thought. So in conclusion, (relative) ease of use coupled with adaptibility to different situations, make things OP, and the ease of use part leads to more people using it. So typically, a weapon being overused tends to mean it's OP, or at least marginally better at everything. Quafe Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6266	Posted - 2014.12.03 04:04:00 - [7] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Actually, there is more at play here. Let's take your example of the laser rifle. If it were used more, it would not be overpowered. Why? Because it takes more "skill" to use and it is a niche weapon. It cannot kill in close range effectively and will be outperformed vastly by close range weapons in CQC, so it has a weakness. Let's compare it to the BAR. It takes about the same skill "skill" to use, seeing that they both have ridiculously accurate hipfire, no kick, and laser accurate. However, the Breach AR has more range than its regular variant, but doesn't do as well at range. Like the laser rifle, it has the potential to kill multiple people in one clip. However, it can disengage and then reengage, not like the laser rifle, where it has to be in one sitting. The laser rifle is also held back by its relatively low ammo reserves, while the breach is not. Also, the breach can cover multiple ranges, both close and medium, equally effectively, while the laser rifle does not. There is also a discrepancy in the meaning of breach and this weapon's range. Typical breaches occur in CQC range, where it should absolutely dominate. However, for some odd reason, it does not lose range compared to its regular variant. Just another thought. So in conclusion, (relative) ease of use coupled with adaptibility to different situations, make things OP, and the ease of use part leads to more people using it. So typically, a weapon being overused tends to mean it's OP, or at least marginally better at everything. Your reasoning is that the Laser Rifle is innefective in CQC, therefore the BAR is a superior weapon. Yet the Laser Rifle dominates medium range and no other weapon can contest it in its range. Also it even extends its force into long range,edging on the effectiveness of the Rail Rifle and Sniper Rifle. The Laser Rifle is just barely not out of step. Yet it is still underused. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3001	Posted - 2014.12.03 04:06:00 - [8] - Quote This is all I hear you saying "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5278	Posted - 2014.12.03 04:13:00 - [9] - Quote Ccp used more than sales data to determine over performance. Kills per second and kills per death are used, if I recall correctly. Those things and more. Your argument is invalid. My advice to you, playa...
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2851	Posted - 2014.12.03 04:14:00 - [10] - Quote When it first comes to things like "people using the BAR get similar K/D ratios as those using different Assault Rifles", I can only ask "how do you know this?" It isn't a number that players can easily see. Eyeballing it in games is also not a very efficient manner as Confirmation Bias starts to kick in. I mean no insult; I am genuinely curious how you have come to this statement. Stating "Overused Gëá Overpowered" by attempting to show "Underused Gëá Underpowered" with the Laser Rifle doesn't work as well as you would think. The Laser Rifle has a crippling weakness in that it is nearly worthless at close range. At long range it is devastating but so is the Scrambler and Rail Rifle and they are not as crippled at close range. The Laser Rifle is not balanced on it being rarely used; it is balanced by having that weakness. This means the only thing you have been able to show is that the Laser Rifle is a balanced weapon despite not being very used and you are attempting to leverage that into a more commonly used weapon is just as balanced. If you were attempting to say "X isn't used a lot because it is OP because Y is underused and it is OP", it doesn't work well because no one would argue that the Laser Rifle is overpowered. Saying "this thing is rarely used but when it is used it is really powerful, which makes it barely balanced" is implying that if it were used all the time it would be overpowered. I doubt it greatly. You then move to say "just because the BAR is popular doesn't mean it is overpowered" which I do not believe follows in your argument. You attempt to prove Overused Gëá Overpowered by starting with Underused Gëá Underpowered but you choose a weapon that not many people would question as overpowered. It doesn't work very well. After the Rail Rifle's kick was nerfed but really when the charge was hit, what weapon did you notice become a lot more popular? I can certainly say I did not see nearly as many BAR as I did before that change happened. The term for a weapon or strategy that might be too powerful but has not been wildly discussed before is Sleeper OP. I think it could be argued that the BAR was Sleeper OP. Whether or not it is overpowered is another thing but I still maintain that your argument, at least how it is currently constructed and how I understand it to be, doesn't stand up as well as it needs to. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"

DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6267	Posted - 2014.12.03 04:19:00 - [11] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: This is all I hear you saying My favorite gun is the ASCR. Your argument is invalid. I haven't seriously committed to using the BAR since April. My last use of the BAR was two weeks ago for two matches only. I found the weapon good, but not good enough to warrant switching to it outside of my preferences. If the BAR was removed tomorrow all my classes would be unaffected. The reason I am defending it is becayse of principals. In short... Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Blueprint For Murder Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 425	Posted - 2014.12.03 04:19:00 - [12] - Quote There are different types of balance ideally every weapon would be used equally because this would create a great variety in game play. Then there is balance as in strength of a weapon. Ease of use is something that you seem to miss OP the LR is not very easy to use at first with its extra loose movement and precision. All of the ARs are easy to use, but worthless at range,The RR and CR are very easy to use and have the strongest profiles and he HMG is very easy to use and very strong with in its ranges. Now there are meant to be mechanics to balance the RR and HMG, but for what every reason these weapons have been buffed well beyond the usefulness of these mechanics. As for the CR it was brought to equality with the other rifles with no balancing mechanics which was just a failure on the devs part. 21 day fast 12/1/14 Life-$
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6267	Posted - 2014.12.03 04:21:00 - [13] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Ccp used more than sales data to determine over performance. Kills per second and kills per death are used, if I recall correctly. Those things and more. Your argument is invalid. Note, I never said that CCP only used certain data. I merely acknowledged some of the data they do use. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 1005	Posted - 2014.12.03 04:26:00 - [14] - Quote In case you "forgot" how CCP determined to nerf the rail rifle, here's the link. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2425277#post2425277 Your precious* Bar is next Azteca, suck it up. *your defense of it is what determined it to be "precious" As Ratatti power grows, my tinfoil hat weakness, and I enjoy the game more.
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2175	Posted - 2014.12.03 04:57:00 - [15] - Quote * Quick Maths* The ADV Breach AR has a base DPS of 499. The ADV Common AR has a base DPS of 493. Maybe My Maths is funny, but one doesn't seem to out shine the other a great deal on the Statistics side of things. I will admit, that the Breach does have a longer range then the Common, and that SHOULD be addressed, but otherwise, Its just a frequently used weapon that gets good results. You should be able to get similar results from a Common AR. Perhaps its that Armor suits are hot, and they just stack their highs w/ Damage mods, making that high alpha higher. My opinion on this, however, is that the only thing that should change right now, is that the Optimal should be toned down to 50m (from 74m), and its max range should be cut to 100m (from 250m) as to provide a strong drawback to the potential bonus they can get from being better w/ damage mods. But Hulk-Smashing It with the ever-loving nerf hammer isn't going to do much other then take an option out the running for a good rifle. I Live for Tears
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 1006	Posted - 2014.12.03 05:09:00 - [16] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Your reasoning is that the Laser Rifle is innefective in CQC, therefore the BAR is a superior weapon. Yet the Laser Rifle dominates medium range and no other weapon can contest it in its range. Also it even extends its force into long range,edging on the effectiveness of the Rail Rifle and Sniper Rifle. The Laser Rifle is just barely not out of step. Yet it is still underused. Come on man... Did you even read the entire thing? And if you did, did you actually pay attention and not skim? There were at least four different points I made reinforcing my logic on why the BAR is slightly over performing... I'll even give you another, right here. Sure the laser rifle dominates, but only after a certain point where it's threshold makes its damage very effective. While yes it may be good at the RR's range, the Rail Rifle has a similar mechanic, a charge up time. By these terms, these two rifles are almost equal on the playing field. Quafe Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Blueprint For Murder Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 426	Posted - 2014.12.03 05:11:00 - [17] - Quote The BrAR is stronger at mid range for sure the high dispersion of the standard insures it doesn't always reach its damage potential at mid ranges. Another thing to take into consideration is that shield profiles are net negative profiles. 21 day fast 12/1/14 Life-$
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 1006	Posted - 2014.12.03 05:12:00 - [18] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: * Quick Maths* The ADV Breach AR has a base DPS of 499. The ADV Common AR has a base DPS of 493. Maybe My Maths is funny, but one doesn't seem to out shine the other a great deal on the Statistics side of things. I will admit, that the Breach does have a longer range then the Common, and that SHOULD be addressed, but otherwise, Its just a frequently used weapon that gets good results. You should be able to get similar results from a Common AR. Perhaps its that Armor suits are hot, and they just stack their highs w/ Damage mods, making that high alpha higher. My opinion on this, however, is that the only thing that should change right now, is that the Optimal should be toned down to 50m (from 74m), and its max range should be cut to 100m (from 250m) as to provide a strong drawback to the potential bonus they can get from being better w/ damage mods. But Hulk-Smashing It with the ever-loving nerf hammer isn't going to do much other then take an option out the running for a good rifle. Also, check out the match for damage per clip and total damage in all the ammo. Damage application is also much more reliable with no kick and lower RoF, so in truth, you lose some with the regular while mostly maintaining it on the Breach. Quafe Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
John Cambell Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2014.12.03 05:16:00 - [19] - Quote True, no one used the SCR but it was found to be OP. A closely kept secret ;)
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 447	Posted - 2014.12.03 05:26:00 - [20] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Just because a weapon is used often does not mean it is necessarily overpowered. Neither are underused weapons underpowered. A great example is the Laser Rifle. It is a very underused weapon and yet it is extremely powerful when it us used. Which makes it just barely balanced. The BAR is another great example. It is said to be overpowered because it is used more than any of the other AR types. Yet, people using the Breach AR tend to get very similar K/D's to people using the Tactical Assault Rifle and Burst Assault Rifle. Yet both of those weapons are considered underpowered. Do you see the logical fallacy in the argumentation of many of these nerf and buff posts that assume that overused is synonymous to overpowered? It is a fallacy that is terribly incorrect and cancerous for the community. The laser rifle was a bad analogy though. Because the laser rifle is, as you said, powerful, it also has a lot of weaknesses. It is in fact the worst rifle at MOST ranges. It is the least flexible rifle as well. So even though it is quite dangerous at it's very limited range which can only be applied in very limited situations with very specific setups against very specific enemies, it has plenty of drawbacks. A lot of the overused OP weapons are OP not because they are powerful in a given situation, but because they are powerful in all situations. One of the things about Dust is that gun classes all have a range and enemy type at which it is weak. Some of the so called 'OP' guns don't really have a weakness. At their 'weak' area they are just 'good.' You are right that overused doesn't always mean overpowered. But overpowered gets used a lot...

Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2178	Posted - 2014.12.03 05:26:00 - [21] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: * Quick Maths* The ADV Breach AR has a base DPS of 499. The ADV Common AR has a base DPS of 493. Maybe My Maths is funny, but one doesn't seem to out shine the other a great deal on the Statistics side of things. I will admit, that the Breach does have a longer range then the Common, and that SHOULD be addressed, but otherwise, Its just a frequently used weapon that gets good results. You should be able to get similar results from a Common AR. Perhaps its that Armor suits are hot, and they just stack their highs w/ Damage mods, making that high alpha higher. My opinion on this, however, is that the only thing that should change right now, is that the Optimal should be toned down to 50m (from 74m), and its max range should be cut to 100m (from 250m) as to provide a strong drawback to the potential bonus they can get from being better w/ damage mods. But Hulk-Smashing It with the ever-loving nerf hammer isn't going to do much other then take an option out the running for a good rifle. Also, check out the match for damage per clip and total damage in all the ammo. Damage application is also much more reliable with no kick and lower RoF, so in truth, you lose some with the regular while mostly maintaining it on the Breach. Perhaps. Hang about. More Quick Maths Regular ADV AR has 2220 base* damage per clip. Breach ADV AR has 2520 base* damage per clip. That doesn't seem to big an issue, at least to me anyway. But, you are right about that dispersion decrease. The Kick is an arguable point, especially on the AR, which lacks any meaningful recoil on the standard either; however the breach's dispersion IS tighter then the Common AR, which makes it a good deal stronger in the CQC of so many maps now, which is why reducing its range will fit it into its range band better. *As said before, the breach does benefit more from damage mods, so a breach has higher potential for damage per clip, so modded damage per clip could edge farther out over the Regular AR I Live for Tears
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1268	Posted - 2014.12.03 05:55:00 - [22] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: More Quick Maths Regular ADV AR has 2220 base* damage per clip. Breach ADV AR has 2520 base* damage per clip. That doesn't seem to big an issue, at least to me anyway. You'd be surprised how much 300 extra damage per mag can do. Just ask any Amassault or Minassault users. Their bonuses don't even do that much. Please, make my Opus pretty...
thehellisgoingon The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 23	Posted - 2014.12.03 05:59:00 - [23] - Quote tactical AR and Burst AR suck in my hands. The breach. Woo
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2178	Posted - 2014.12.03 06:11:00 - [24] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: More Quick Maths Regular ADV AR has 2220 base* damage per clip. Breach ADV AR has 2520 base* damage per clip. That doesn't seem to big an issue, at least to me anyway. You'd be surprised how much 300 extra damage per mag can do. Just ask any Amassault or Minassault users. The Minassault bonus adds about 400 damage per mag. The Amassault adds about 325 under normal circumstances. Also, you got the numbers pretty far off... The ADV AR has1953 per mag. The ADV BrAR has 2192 per mag. That's 240 more damage. I used protofits, so it added the bonuses to the numbers. I Live for Tears
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1550	Posted - 2014.12.03 06:15:00 - [25] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Just because a weapon is used often does not mean it is necessarily overpowered. Neither are underused weapons underpowered. A great example is the Laser Rifle. It is a very underused weapon and yet it is extremely powerful when it us used. Which makes it just barely balanced. The BAR is another great example. It is said to be overpowered because it is used more than any of the other AR types. Yet, people using the Breach AR tend to get very similar K/D's to people using the Tactical Assault Rifle and Burst Assault Rifle. Yet both of those weapons are considered underpowered. Do you see the logical fallacy in the argumentation of many of these nerf and buff posts that assume that overused is synonymous to overpowered? It is a fallacy that is terribly incorrect and cancerous for the community. I'm sorry friend but you are simply wrong and here's why: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_dominance Next you will tell me that Terran wasn't OP when SC2 hit... I know we all like to pretend everyone but ourselves in these games are all aspies but we really aren't. Deadlyztec says: Overused is NOT ALWAYS overpowered. Tychus says: Overused IS ALWAYS overpowered. Which one is more likely closer to truth, you decide... People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Ryme Intrinseca Dead Man's Game RUST415 2159	Posted - 2014.12.03 07:49:00 - [26] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: The BAR is another great example. It is said to be overpowered because it is used more than any of the other AR types. Yet, people using the Breach AR tend to get very similar K/D's to people using the Tactical Assault Rifle and Burst Assault Rifle. Yet both of those weapons are considered underpowered. I don't have K/D numbers. But this graph suggests these numbers: BrAR - 1.6 K/sec (above average) BuAR - 1.2 K/sec (below average) TAR - 1.0 K/sec (below average) So the evidence is that the BrAR is rather more effective.
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2312	Posted - 2014.12.03 07:58:00 - [27] - Quote Why are people pushing this BS that the Breach AR is supposed to be CQC? It takes after the Rail RIfle, thus it is (supposed to be) a lower DPS, higher damage per shot/range variant of the AR. Thusly: Simple fact it does MORE DPS than a Assault Assault Rifle is grounds for IT'S ***** OP. What if we made a Breach Combat Rifle, that had +10m range and +4 DPS, but traded -15% RoF for +18% damage? what if the Breach Shotgun had a SHORTER range than the normal(if this is what you guys seriously think should happen)? What if we made the Breach SG's damage so high that it did better DPS than a normal SG, but was "balanced" by it's low clipsize and rate of fire? WHAT IF. We made the Breach MD do 700 damage? Breach =\= CQC, it's Long Range/Lower DPS. Live with it, or push to swap Assault and Breach hipfire. General John Ripper -BAM!** I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1270	Posted - 2014.12.03 08:13:00 - [28] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Why are people pushing this BS that the Breach AR is supposed to be CQC? It takes after the Rail RIfle, thus it is (supposed to be) a lower DPS, higher damage per shot/range variant of the AR. Thusly: Simple fact it does MORE DPS than a Assault Assault Rifle is grounds for IT'S ***** OP. What if we made a Breach Combat Rifle, that had +10m range and +4 DPS, but traded -15% RoF for +18% damage? what if the Breach Shotgun had a SHORTER range than the normal(if this is what you guys seriously think should happen)? What if we made the Breach SG's damage so high that it did better DPS than a normal SG, but was "balanced" by it's low clipsize and rate of fire? WHAT IF. We made the Breach MD do 700 damage? Breach =\= CQC, it's Long Range/Lower DPS. Live with it, or push to swap Assault and Breach hipfire. Give me proof that breach weapons have a longer range than their normal counterparts and I'll not write this argument off as horseshit. Because so far, EVERY** Breach variant has exactly the same, or really damn close to,(within a few meters, and some have shorter range)the same range as the normal weapon that they are a variant of. Every single one. No exception. Breach AR longer Breach MD same Breach ScP shorter Breach Shotgun same Breach Forgegun same Breach SMG shorter Breach Flaylock same All of these weapons, which are all of the breach weapons in the game, have ranges that are exactly the same as, or slightly shorter than their normal counter parts. The Rail Rifle has a long range because it is a Caldari weapon, not because it it a Breach weapon. Breach isnt long range. Breach is slow and hard hitting. That's it. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 154	Posted - 2014.12.03 08:23:00 - [29] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Just because a weapon is used often does not mean it is necessarily overpowered. Neither are underused weapons underpowered. A great example is the Laser Rifle. It is a very underused weapon and yet it is extremely powerful when it us used. Which makes it just barely balanced. The BAR is another great example. It is said to be overpowered because it is used more than any of the other AR types. Yet, people using the Breach AR tend to get very similar K/D's to people using the Tactical Assault Rifle and Burst Assault Rifle. Yet both of those weapons are considered underpowered. Do you see the logical fallacy in the argumentation of many of these nerf and buff posts that assume that overused is synonymous to overpowered? It is a fallacy that is terribly incorrect and cancerous for the community. Lol F your fallacy fantasy. do some math you will see how the BrAR is overpowered. And a K/D comparison of people using the weapons is a fallacy. The TacAR and BurstAR require some skill because for 1, they at least kick and have dispersion. I don't know how, but if you really are seeing people using the BrAR and achieving similar K/D's to people using the TacAr and BurstAR then know the BrAR user requires a quarter of the skill to do so. Besides having no kick and near no dispersion and thus the best applyable DPS by far, the BrAR is simply designed wrong. It is supposed to have the lowest DPS of the ARs yet it has the highest, along with no handling issues. Then people argue the BrAR is fine and other weapons need a buff to its standard, which will just bring us a more skill less call of duty like game. The HMG and Shotty are already at that standard.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3219	Posted - 2014.12.03 08:30:00 - [30] - Quote Its true that correlation does not imply causation. But correlation itself can indicate that there is a problem somewhere. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".



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