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Mexxx Dust-Slayer
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
154
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Posted - 2014.12.03 08:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Lynn Beck wrote:Why are people pushing this BS that the Breach AR is supposed to be CQC?
It takes after the Rail RIfle, thus it is (supposed to be) a lower DPS, higher damage per shot/range variant of the AR.
Thusly: Simple fact it does MORE DPS than a Assault Assault Rifle is grounds for IT'S ******* OP.
What if we made a Breach Combat Rifle, that had +10m range and +4 DPS, but traded -15% RoF for +18% damage?
what if the Breach Shotgun had a SHORTER range than the normal(if this is what you guys seriously think should happen)?
What if we made the Breach SG's damage so high that it did better DPS than a normal SG, but was "balanced" by it's low clipsize and rate of fire?
WHAT IF. We made the Breach MD do 700 damage?
Breach =\= CQC, it's Long Range/Lower DPS. Live with it, or push to swap Assault and Breach hipfire. Give me proof that breach weapons have a longer range than their normal counterparts and I'll not write this argument off as horseshit. Because so far, EVERY Breach variant has exactly the same, or really damn close to,(within a few meters, and some have shorter range)the same range as the normal weapon that they are a variant of. Every single one. No exception. Breach AR longer Breach MD same Breach ScP shorter Breach Shotgun same Breach Forgegun same Breach SMG shorter Breach Flaylock same All of these weapons, which are all of the breach weapons in the game, have ranges that are exactly the same as, or slightly shorter than their normal counter parts. The Rail Rifle has a long range because it is a Caldari weapon, not because it it a Breach weapon. Breach isnt long range. Breach is slow and hard hitting. That's it. There is only racial parity in rifles, and the fact that the variant rifles aim to mimic other racial rifles only applies to rifles. How would your argument work for assault variants for all weapons? |
Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback
1270
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Posted - 2014.12.03 08:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:Lynn Beck wrote:Why are people pushing this BS that the Breach AR is supposed to be CQC?
It takes after the Rail RIfle, thus it is (supposed to be) a lower DPS, higher damage per shot/range variant of the AR.
Thusly: Simple fact it does MORE DPS than a Assault Assault Rifle is grounds for IT'S ******* OP.
What if we made a Breach Combat Rifle, that had +10m range and +4 DPS, but traded -15% RoF for +18% damage?
what if the Breach Shotgun had a SHORTER range than the normal(if this is what you guys seriously think should happen)?
What if we made the Breach SG's damage so high that it did better DPS than a normal SG, but was "balanced" by it's low clipsize and rate of fire?
WHAT IF. We made the Breach MD do 700 damage?
Breach =\= CQC, it's Long Range/Lower DPS. Live with it, or push to swap Assault and Breach hipfire. Give me proof that breach weapons have a longer range than their normal counterparts and I'll not write this argument off as horseshit. Because so far, EVERY Breach variant has exactly the same, or really damn close to,(within a few meters, and some have shorter range)the same range as the normal weapon that they are a variant of. Every single one. No exception. Breach AR longer Breach MD same Breach ScP shorter Breach Shotgun same Breach Forgegun same Breach SMG shorter Breach Flaylock same All of these weapons, which are all of the breach weapons in the game, have ranges that are exactly the same as, or slightly shorter than their normal counter parts. The Rail Rifle has a long range because it is a Caldari weapon, not because it it a Breach weapon. Breach isnt long range. Breach is slow and hard hitting. That's it. There is only racial parity in rifles. How would your argument work for assault variants for all weapons? There is also racial parity for pistols. The Breach ScP has a range more comparable to the regular ScP than a Bolt Pistol. Same with the Breach SMG and the Magsec.
Assault variants are all over the place right now. Some are full auto, some aren't. Some have shorter range, some have the same. I really don't know what to do with them, but Assault variant weapons need a review. Especially the AScP. It should probably become a machine pistol tbh.
Please, make my Opus pretty...
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Her Chosen
Grade No.2
90
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Posted - 2014.12.03 08:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
To CCP, underused means UP. Overused means OP.
They thought the bolt pistol was UP because it wasn't used, so they buffed it.
So, the HMG and SG are technically the most OP weapons in the game, let's nerf them based on subjective data. |
Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
2255
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Posted - 2014.12.03 09:44:00 -
[34] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Just because a weapon is used often does not mean it is necessarily overpowered. Neither are underused weapons underpowered.
A great example is the Laser Rifle. It is a very underused weapon and yet it is extremely powerful when it us used. Which makes it just barely balanced.
The BAR is another great example. It is said to be overpowered because it is used more than any of the other AR types. Yet, people using the Breach AR tend to get very similar K/D's to people using the Tactical Assault Rifle and Burst Assault Rifle. Yet both of those weapons are considered underpowered.
Do you see the logical fallacy in the argumentation of many of these nerf and buff posts that assume that overused is synonymous to overpowered? It is a fallacy that is terribly incorrect and cancerous for the community. its actually proven that the burst AR was overlooked in the AR buffs a few weeks back and is in need of proper buffing.
but yes i agree.. BAR seem powerful but when against an armor brick it sucks harder then a dyson DC50 vacuum, same can not be said as such for the SCR due to its larger dmg per shot and stupidly high RPM.
now the CR is a bit like the bar..it blows vs shields but melts armor.. and with how many armor tankers there are of course its gonna look OP and more so due to low fitting which made it very scout friendly.
now the "false positive" of the BAR is because there is soo many scouts still running around and they die very easly to BAR and other anti shield weapons because their primary tank is more shield then armor (except amarr which is nearly full armor, gal is like 30-40% shield tanking..). so with large amount of scouts getting fragged by the BAR they ofc coem to whine en masse on the forums.. so ccp and cpm think its the concensus of every flavour of suit/player
#[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
12709
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Posted - 2014.12.03 10:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
Her Chosen wrote:To CCP, underused means UP. Overused means OP.
They thought the bolt pistol was UP because it wasn't used, so they buffed it.
So, the HMG and SG are technically the most OP weapons in the game, let's nerf them based on subjective data.
That is patently untrue, and falls under spreading false information.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Her Chosen
Grade No.2
91
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Posted - 2014.12.03 10:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Her Chosen wrote:To CCP, underused means UP. Overused means OP.
They thought the bolt pistol was UP because it wasn't used, so they buffed it.
So, the HMG and SG are technically the most OP weapons in the game, let's nerf them based on subjective data. That is patently untrue, and falls under spreading false information.
Those statements came information you've posted on these very forums. You claimed data suggested the bolt wasn't performing well because it didn't register many kills as its peers.
You posted what would be EvE type kill mails, showing the suits and guns responsible for most PC kills
FYI: all data is subjective to due circumstances and human variables.
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Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback
1270
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Posted - 2014.12.03 10:18:00 -
[37] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Just because a weapon is used often does not mean it is necessarily overpowered. Neither are underused weapons underpowered.
A great example is the Laser Rifle. It is a very underused weapon and yet it is extremely powerful when it us used. Which makes it just barely balanced.
The BAR is another great example. It is said to be overpowered because it is used more than any of the other AR types. Yet, people using the Breach AR tend to get very similar K/D's to people using the Tactical Assault Rifle and Burst Assault Rifle. Yet both of those weapons are considered underpowered.
Do you see the logical fallacy in the argumentation of many of these nerf and buff posts that assume that overused is synonymous to overpowered? It is a fallacy that is terribly incorrect and cancerous for the community. its actually proven that the burst AR was overlooked in the AR buffs a few weeks back and is in need of proper buffing. but yes i agree.. BAR seem powerful but when against an armor brick it sucks harder then a dyson DC50 vacuum, same can not be said as such for the SCR due to its larger dmg per shot and stupidly high RPM. now the CR is a bit like the bar..it blows vs shields but melts armor.. and with how many armor tankers there are of course its gonna look OP and more so due to low fitting which made it very scout friendly. now the "false positive" of the BAR is because there is soo many scouts still running around and they die very easly to BAR and other anti shield weapons because their primary tank is more shield then armor (except amarr which is nearly full armor, gal is like 30-40% shield tanking..). so with large amount of scouts getting fragged by the BAR they ofc coem to whine en masse on the forums.. so ccp and cpm think its the concensus of every flavour of suit/player Dear God I wish I could reblock you, but the forum gods are punishing me for some unknown sin. I've been reading a whole two sentences into your **** posts before I realize how **** they are. I need to start looking at names before I read, and not afterwords.
Please, make my Opus pretty...
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
13508
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Posted - 2014.12.03 10:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Her Chosen wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Her Chosen wrote:To CCP, underused means UP. Overused means OP.
They thought the bolt pistol was UP because it wasn't used, so they buffed it.
So, the HMG and SG are technically the most OP weapons in the game, let's nerf them based on subjective data. That is patently untrue, and falls under spreading false information. Those statements came information you've posted on these very forums. You claimed data suggested the bolt wasn't performing well because it didn't register many kills as its peers. You posted what would be EvE type kill mails, showing the suits and guns responsible for most PC kills FYI: all data is subjective to due circumstances and human variables. Underuse or overuse is just a sign that something wrong, it's the symptom.
You then have to go in there and figure out WHAT is wrong, why it's overused or underused.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
6273
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Posted - 2014.12.03 10:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Her Chosen wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Her Chosen wrote:To CCP, underused means UP. Overused means OP.
They thought the bolt pistol was UP because it wasn't used, so they buffed it.
So, the HMG and SG are technically the most OP weapons in the game, let's nerf them based on subjective data. That is patently untrue, and falls under spreading false information. Those statements came information you've posted on these very forums. You claimed data suggested the bolt wasn't performing well because it didn't register many kills as its peers. You posted what would be EvE type kill mails, showing the suits and guns responsible for most PC kills FYI: all data is subjective to due circumstances and human variables. Underuse or overuse is just a sign that something wrong, it's the symptom. You then have to go in there and figure out WHAT is wrong, why it's overused or underused. Not always. Some niche weapons like the Flaylock, Plasma Cannon, MD and Laser Rifle will always be underused because of their situational nature.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5607
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Posted - 2014.12.03 10:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Her Chosen wrote:To CCP, underused means UP. Overused means OP.
They thought the bolt pistol was UP because it wasn't used, so they buffed it.
So, the HMG and SG are technically the most OP weapons in the game, let's nerf them based on subjective data. That is patently untrue, and falls under spreading false information.
Haven't we tread this ground already?
Has the tinfoil supply gotten low again? I have a stockpile.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
723
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Posted - 2014.12.03 10:56:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Her Chosen wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Her Chosen wrote:To CCP, underused means UP. Overused means OP.
They thought the bolt pistol was UP because it wasn't used, so they buffed it.
So, the HMG and SG are technically the most OP weapons in the game, let's nerf them based on subjective data. That is patently untrue, and falls under spreading false information. Those statements came information you've posted on these very forums. You claimed data suggested the bolt wasn't performing well because it didn't register many kills as its peers. You posted what would be EvE type kill mails, showing the suits and guns responsible for most PC kills FYI: all data is subjective to due circumstances and human variables. Underuse or overuse is just a sign that something wrong, it's the symptom. You then have to go in there and figure out WHAT is wrong, why it's overused or underused.
im still waiting for new RR data that says Rattati nerfs brought its usage down.
and im still waiting for him to define what the actual problem with RR was that made it so popular in the first... according to his data.
someone get him in here for an inquiry... i have questions and he hasnt given any answers |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance
723
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Posted - 2014.12.03 11:15:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Her Chosen wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Her Chosen wrote:To CCP, underused means UP. Overused means OP.
They thought the bolt pistol was UP because it wasn't used, so they buffed it.
So, the HMG and SG are technically the most OP weapons in the game, let's nerf them based on subjective data. That is patently untrue, and falls under spreading false information. Those statements came information you've posted on these very forums. You claimed data suggested the bolt wasn't performing well because it didn't register many kills as its peers. You posted what would be EvE type kill mails, showing the suits and guns responsible for most PC kills FYI: all data is subjective to due circumstances and human variables. Underuse or overuse is just a sign that something wrong, it's the symptom. You then have to go in there and figure out WHAT is wrong, why it's overused or underused.
why didnt we do that with the RR? |
sabre prime
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
915
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Posted - 2014.12.03 11:31:00 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Her Chosen wrote:To CCP, underused means UP. Overused means OP.
They thought the bolt pistol was UP because it wasn't used, so they buffed it.
So, the HMG and SG are technically the most OP weapons in the game, let's nerf them based on subjective data. That is patently untrue, and falls under spreading false information. The bolt pistol is a very good example though. When it was first released it was almost perfectly balanced; there was nothing wrong with it. But a subjective interpretation of it's usage statistics made it 'under powered' according to CCP. The weapon has since gone through a buff and nerf cycle for no reason, which has altered it's damage profile, it's charge time and generally changed the pistols mechanics.
The slow blade penetrates the shield.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5281
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Posted - 2014.12.03 12:11:00 -
[44] - Quote
The bolt pistol has never had it's damage profile changed; it has always been hybrid - rail.
My advice to you, playa...
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
3006
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Posted - 2014.12.03 12:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Her Chosen wrote:To CCP, underused means UP. Overused means OP.
They thought the bolt pistol was UP because it wasn't used, so they buffed it.
So, the HMG and SG are technically the most OP weapons in the game, let's nerf them based on subjective data. That is patently untrue, and falls under spreading false information. You are entirely correct
http://dust.thang.dk/market_tryhardinator.php
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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Nirwanda Vaughns
1007
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Posted - 2014.12.03 12:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
in its current form the breach is slightly 'broken' that being that the main thing thats wrong with it is that the rnage of it is perhaps a bit too far for a CQC weapon. if the BAR range dropped to about 40m-5m base it'd be more balanced, the RR got a bit of a screwing over as well with its nerfs as it only needed hipfire kick increased to reduce CQC usage whereas with the double nerf of longer charge up and increased overall kick its not as great as it perhaps should be. CCP have a tendency with dust to either over buff or over nerf something instead of small steps so its one extreme to the other.
changes i'd say are.
BAR - drop range down to 40m-50m, perhaps drop clip size to 30
RR - reduce charge up and scoped kick back to normal but have hip fire kick more inline with an unskilled TAC rifle - perhaps seeign as gal/cal are opposites change calassault skilll to 5% reduction to scoped dispertion and kick of Hybrid Rail light/sidearm (as opposed to the gallente hipfire bonus)
LR - its far too damaging in closer range than it used to be, i had my heavy killed by a guy at 6m other day and it appeared to be doing high damage. originally the LR had a range of about 40-100m and the damage up close being really poor due to the focusing crystal used in the rifle. this made it unique and fill a role of mid range supression weapon leaving ScR as close to mid ranges. also i think damage profile should be changed to +/- 505 (shield/armour) as for a weapon thats supposed to be weak against armour it chews through it once the multiplier builds up that the armour resistences are pretty much negated
CR - its supposed to be mid range precision type of weapon, reduce scoped kick/dispersion slightly
ACR - the dispersion changes last hotfix have made it about as accurate as a HMG in CQC, needs bringing back to how it was especially after the damage profile vs shields was altered too. there are times when my six kin cant even break a C-I's shields at 10-20m hip fire engagements.
HMG - these need more refining as there isn't really any point is choosing anything other than the standard atm. with the range being increased ot about 50m its pretty much left the assault with no benefit. the roles of each HMG need to be more defined.
Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience
proud C-II bpo owner
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1330
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:16:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Her Chosen wrote:To CCP, underused means UP. Overused means OP.
They thought the bolt pistol was UP because it wasn't used, so they buffed it.
So, the HMG and SG are technically the most OP weapons in the game, let's nerf them based on subjective data. That is patently untrue, and falls under spreading false information.
C'mon Rattati you could at least write a long explanation about how rifles are balanced and what data is used. Oh, you did? Next time use smaller words.
Because, that's why.
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sabre prime
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
915
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:21:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:The bolt pistol has never had it's damage profile changed; it has always been hybrid - rail. OK, I mean't damage, not damage profile.
The slow blade penetrates the shield.
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
908
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:22:00 -
[49] - Quote
Her Chosen wrote:[ FYI: all data is subjective to due circumstances and human variables.
Data is objective. Translation of data is subjective. |
sabre prime
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
915
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:25:00 -
[50] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Her Chosen wrote:[ FYI: all data is subjective to due circumstances and human variables.
Data is objective. Translation of data is subjective. Interpretation of data.
The slow blade penetrates the shield.
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
908
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:33:00 -
[51] - Quote
sabre prime wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Her Chosen wrote:[ FYI: all data is subjective to due circumstances and human variables.
Data is objective. Translation of data is subjective. Interpretation of data. You are correct. Fixed.
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Slave of MORTE
Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic
119
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:38:00 -
[52] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Just because a weapon is used often does not mean it is necessarily overpowered. Neither are underused weapons underpowered.
A great example is the Laser Rifle. It is a very underused weapon and yet it is extremely powerful when it us used. Which makes it just barely balanced.
The BAR is another great example. It is said to be overpowered because it is used more than any of the other AR types. Yet, people using the Breach AR tend to get very similar K/D's to people using the Tactical Assault Rifle and Burst Assault Rifle. Yet both of those weapons are considered underpowered.
Do you see the logical fallacy in the argumentation of many of these nerf and buff posts that assume that overused is synonymous to overpowered? It is a fallacy that is terribly incorrect and cancerous for the community. The laser rifle was a bad analogy though. Because the laser rifle is, as you said, powerful, it also has a lot of weaknesses. It is in fact the worst rifle at MOST ranges. It is the least flexible rifle as well. So even though it is quite dangerous at it's very limited range which can only be applied in very limited situations with very specific setups against very specific enemies, it has plenty of drawbacks. A lot of the overused OP weapons are OP not because they are powerful in a given situation, but because they are powerful in all situations. One of the things about Dust is that gun classes all have a range and enemy type at which it is weak. Some of the so called 'OP' guns don't really have a weakness. At their 'weak' area they are just 'good.' You are right that overused doesn't always mean overpowered. But overpowered gets used a lot... Capable of killing from 35m-100 yes it lack so much versatility clearly ccp needs to buff me
Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
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Slave of MORTE
Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic
120
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:46:00 -
[53] - Quote
Slave of MORTE wrote:Imp Smash wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Just because a weapon is used often does not mean it is necessarily overpowered. Neither are underused weapons underpowered.
A great example is the Laser Rifle. It is a very underused weapon and yet it is extremely powerful when it us used. Which makes it just barely balanced.
The BAR is another great example. It is said to be overpowered because it is used more than any of the other AR types. Yet, people using the Breach AR tend to get very similar K/D's to people using the Tactical Assault Rifle and Burst Assault Rifle. Yet both of those weapons are considered underpowered.
Do you see the logical fallacy in the argumentation of many of these nerf and buff posts that assume that overused is synonymous to overpowered? It is a fallacy that is terribly incorrect and cancerous for the community. The laser rifle was a bad analogy though. Because the laser rifle is, as you said, powerful, it also has a lot of weaknesses. It is in fact the worst rifle at MOST ranges. It is the least flexible rifle as well. So even though it is quite dangerous at it's very limited range which can only be applied in very limited situations with very specific setups against very specific enemies, it has plenty of drawbacks. A lot of the overused OP weapons are OP not because they are powerful in a given situation, but because they are powerful in all situations. One of the things about Dust is that gun classes all have a range and enemy type at which it is weak. Some of the so called 'OP' guns don't really have a weakness. At their 'weak' area they are just 'good.' You are right that overused doesn't always mean overpowered. But overpowered gets used a lot... Capable of killing from 35m-100 yes it lack so much versatility clearly ccp needs to buff me Please buff me ratatti..Please you've buffed my lr 3 times in a row now I'm using it in maps where I've never used it before..but not everyone is spamming it it's still a rare sight clearly it needs MOAR POWER
Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
2178
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Posted - 2014.12.03 13:58:00 -
[54] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Her Chosen wrote:[ FYI: all data is subjective to due circumstances and human variables.
Data is objective. Translation of data is subjective. Data is objective. The cause of that data is subjective.
A great many things affect the performance of a gun, the range it's used at, how good the player is at playing, the dropsuit fitted. KD is a very hard stat to justify nerf hammering something. You can argue w/ the weapon stats that corroborate the KD boost, or bring up other points on theory of why the gun is so good, but just stating KD and saying something is wrong, is wrong. It excludes all other poddibilities of WHY the gun has a higher KD and tries to bend the facts to fit an opinion it may not solely agree w/.
tl;dr, Usage Data is pointless for nerfing unless you can say that something about the weapon that is objectively better then another weapon is causing the usage spike. And manage to successfully argue that it is an unfair advantage over other weapons that make them worth les.
I Live for Tears
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Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge Proficiency V.
449
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Posted - 2014.12.03 14:29:00 -
[55] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:When it first comes to things like "people using the BAR get similar K/D ratios as those using different Assault Rifles", I can only ask "how do you know this?" It isn't a number that players can easily see. Eyeballing it in games is also not a very efficient manner as Confirmation Bias starts to kick in. I mean no insult; I am genuinely curious how you have come to this statement.
Stating "Overused Gëá Overpowered" by attempting to show "Underused Gëá Underpowered" with the Laser Rifle doesn't work as well as you would think. The Laser Rifle has a crippling weakness in that it is nearly worthless at close range. At long range it is devastating but so is the Scrambler and Rail Rifle and they are not as crippled at close range. The Laser Rifle is not balanced on it being rarely used; it is balanced by having that weakness. This means the only thing you have been able to show is that the Laser Rifle is a balanced weapon despite not being very used and you are attempting to leverage that into a more commonly used weapon is just as balanced. If you were attempting to say "X isn't used a lot because it is OP because Y is underused and it is OP", it doesn't work well because no one would argue that the Laser Rifle is overpowered.
Saying "this thing is rarely used but when it is used it is really powerful, which makes it barely balanced" is implying that if it were used all the time it would be overpowered. I doubt it greatly. You then move to say "just because the BAR is popular doesn't mean it is overpowered" which I do not believe follows in your argument. You attempt to prove Overused Gëá Overpowered by starting with Underused Gëá Underpowered but you choose a weapon that not many people would question as overpowered. It doesn't work very well.
After the Rail Rifle's kick was nerfed but really when the charge was hit, what weapon did you notice become a lot more popular? I can certainly say I did not see nearly as many BAR as I did before that change happened. The term for a weapon or strategy that might be too powerful but has not been wildly discussed before is Sleeper OP. I think it could be argued that the BAR was Sleeper OP. Whether or not it is overpowered is another thing but I still maintain that your argument, at least how it is currently constructed and how I understand it to be, doesn't stand up as well as it needs to. What is this???? Is it "logic" and "reasoning" supporting a view that was presented in a respectful manner???? What is this forum coming to?????
+1 by the way
So mad I could eat a chimichanga, swallow a marble, chug a quafe, bend over, fart, and drop an amarian from 100 meters..
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2407
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Posted - 2014.12.03 14:39:00 -
[56] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:The BAR is another great example. It is said to be overpowered because it is used more than any of the other AR types. Yet, people using the Breach AR tend to get very similar K/D's to people using the Tactical Assault Rifle and Burst Assault Rifle. Yet both of those weapons are considered underpowered.
Who says the BAR has a KDR similar to the TAR or BuAR?
I don't know that we've seen ANY data since the weapon was buffed (and other weapons are nerfed).
So, of course you're correct that overpowered != overused, but we don't know just what the KDR is of the BAR so it's a little early to jump to that conclusion with respect to the BAR.
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Mahal Daj
Mahal Tactical Enterprises
104
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Posted - 2014.12.03 15:34:00 -
[57] - Quote
The game is built on waves-of-opportunity... so the right weapon at the right time trumps. The Breach-AR is powerful because so many people wander into its optimal range looking the wrong way.
Good post OP
See my Post on Crashes: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2413361#post2413361
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sabre prime
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
916
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:02:00 -
[58] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Her Chosen wrote:[ FYI: all data is subjective to due circumstances and human variables.
Data is objective. Translation Interpretation of data is subjective. Sorry to go off topic; but how did you add the strikethrough line?
EDIT: looking at your quote, it seems to be a [ s ]...[ /s ] (without the spaces). Wish that was listed in the BBCode instructions.
The slow blade penetrates the shield.
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Kayla Michael
Tactical Logistics and Cargo Northern Associates.
36
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:18:00 -
[59] - Quote
Breach is overpowered, come at me bro.
Had to correct a typo, tucking fypos. `~` |
Dust User
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1167
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Posted - 2014.12.03 16:20:00 -
[60] - Quote
Her Chosen wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Her Chosen wrote:To CCP, underused means UP. Overused means OP.
They thought the bolt pistol was UP because it wasn't used, so they buffed it.
So, the HMG and SG are technically the most OP weapons in the game, let's nerf them based on subjective data. That is patently untrue, and falls under spreading false information. Those statements came information you've posted on these very forums. You claimed data suggested the bolt wasn't performing well because it didn't register many kills as its peers. You posted what would be EvE type kill mails, showing the suits and guns responsible for most PC kills FYI: all data is subjective to due circumstances and human variables.
Your tears are even better in GD.
gg |
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