DUST Search - Sticky:[Feedback] Bundled ISK fits for New Players

DeathwindRising wrote:

well one issue im having is how to include certain options at the lower tier suits.

for example the new APEX fit all include ewar modules. theres no way to fit those on a STD suit without completely breaking it.

a STD cal assault suit has only 1 low slot. how does a new player participate in ewar when they will need a shield regulator as part of their basic survival? do we really expect them to drop an extender to fit a precision mod?

im asking because if ewar is to become a greater part of the meta, it should be introduced as early as possible, but the current slot layout wont allow for that. you can look at any of the starter fits and see that.

so do we say that ewar is something you can only think of getting into once you can run ADV or PRO suits?

considering the work done to standardize slot layouts, id rather not have to them redone. id point to the base scan stats on suits as where we could add ewar without having to add slots.

its important to remember that if the plan is for new players to use these as they progress, then we cant have them being fodder to scouts which STD and probably ADV suits couldnt feasibly counter . unless we want to say that only scouts can counter scouts, which is what i thought we were trying to fix.

"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 11972	Posted - 2014.11.24 09:55:00 - [1] - Quote Dear Players, once again, I come asking for assistance. What we are thinking is to assist New Players while progressing and picking skills without getting lost in the wonderful world of minmaxed fittings. The idea is that one new Marketplace category would consistt of good fits,with all gear at STD, ADV, PRO: like so Caldari Medium Basic STD Medium Basic ADV Medium Basic PRO Medium Assault STD Medium Assault ADV Medium Assault PRO Medium Logistics STD Medium Logistics ADV Medium Logistics PRO Then, a player has a goal, and understands the skills he needs to get there, sees the ISK price and instead of buying one at a time through the fitting window, has a place that he can trust and buy 100 copies at a time. This is a lot of work, both to design and author so who better than the Community to help a Newbro out. The premise would be, "progressing through all Factions as a good role", now since these are ISK fits meant for everyone, they can be as competitive as possible. I have laid out a document, and I am going out on a limb here. Players that desire to help, can request write access and then edit the document, the ultimate test in crowdsourcing. Competitive ISK Fittings Let me know if you have thoughts on this initiative. Some of the fits might require Core Skills being maxed or at a certain a level, please add those as comments. Now to solve conflicts, we will cross that bridge when we get there, let's see if there are some angels out there who want to help. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13360	Posted - 2014.11.24 09:57:00 - [2] - Quote Excellent idea! Will go over the Gallente fits when I have the time. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13360	Posted - 2014.11.24 10:03:00 - [3] - Quote What level core skills should we expect to require? 1 for STD, 3 for ADV and 5 for PRO? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 11974	Posted - 2014.11.24 10:14:00 - [4] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: What level core skills should we expect to require? 1 for STD, 3 for ADV and 5 for PRO? Sounds like a solid plan! "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5273	Posted - 2014.11.24 10:37:00 - [5] - Quote Hey Rattati these are using frames, not specialized dropsuits? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1329	Posted - 2014.11.24 10:51:00 - [6] - Quote One thing i would have are accurate descriptions. Eg. Assault:Combat oriented favoring head to head engagements. Logistics:Support oriented favoring squads and equipment. Basic:A more economical choice favoring the thrifty. If,after all,this will be aimed at newbs they would appreciate the clarification. Bombarding new players without a sufficient sum up of the suits purpose would only lead to frustration (someone skilling basic,thinking they get assault or logistics bonuses). As for fittings i'll leave that for someone else,kincats aren't worth the extra eHP i need to survive. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Wilhelm Klingspor DUST University Ivy League 327	Posted - 2014.11.24 11:28:00 - [7] - Quote I think this might be a good idea. Speaking for myself this would have been nice to have when i started. It helps giving the newbroGÇÖs an idea of the feel of the game on the field without having to worry about fittings initially. Later on certain people automatically get the desire to fiddle around with fits but some people who donGÇÖt care about that and just want to shoot stuffs at first, lowering the hump for these peoples is a nice addition i think. Also, if at all possible, a good fit description would be nice to add. GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ DON'T PANIC GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 458	Posted - 2014.11.24 11:46:00 - [8] - Quote This will be a massive undertaking (as you say), although I see the benefits. It will be difficult (or even impossible) to fit all gear with the same tier as the suite. I.e. PRO suite with all PRO gear. As a side-note: Why don't you take the result of this endeavour (required skills for each frame and tier) and make recommended "Mastery" levels, as we have in EVE? (Source) This will create one place which the new-players can quickly overview the "recommended" skills for a suite rather than browsing through all modules separately. It will also give people something else to strive for. This will of course take a client-patch, but it does not prevent the above to be accomplished in a hot-fix first.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 697	Posted - 2014.11.24 12:28:00 - [9] - Quote well one issue im having is how to include certain options at the lower tier suits. for example the new APEX fit all include ewar modules. theres no way to fit those on a STD suit without completely breaking it. a STD cal assault suit has only 1 low slot. how does a new player participate in ewar when they will need a shield regulator as part of their basic survival? do we really expect them to drop an extender to fit a precision mod? im asking because if ewar is to become a greater part of the meta, it should be introduced as early as possible, but the current slot layout wont allow for that. you can look at any of the starter fits and see that. so do we say that ewar is something you can only think of getting into once you can run ADV or PRO suits? considering the work done to standardize slot layouts, id rather not have to them redone. id point to the base scan stats on suits as where we could add ewar without having to add slots. its important to remember that if the plan is for new players to use these as they progress, then we cant have them being fodder to scouts which STD and probably ADV suits couldnt feasibly counter . unless we want to say that only scouts can counter scouts, which is what i thought we were trying to fix.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 11979	Posted - 2014.11.24 12:31:00 - [10] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: This will be a massive undertaking (as you say), although I see the benefits. It will be difficult (or even impossible) to fit all gear with the same tier as the suite. I.e. PRO suite with all PRO gear. As a side-note: Why don't you take the result of this endeavour (required skills for each frame and tier) and make recommended "Mastery" levels, as we have in EVE?(Source) This will create one place which the new-players can quickly overview the "recommended" skills for a suite rather than browsing through all modules separately. It will also give people something else to strive for. This will of course take a client-patch, but it does not prevent the above to be accomplished in a hot-fix first. That is a great idea, incorporating into "these are the skills , check the boxes to get mastery" "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2611	Posted - 2014.11.24 12:41:00 - [11] - Quote I think the idea is fine for STD for beginners and ADV to give them an idea to work toward, but by the time they hit proto they should know how to fit a suit. Just my opinion. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 11980	Posted - 2014.11.24 12:53:00 - [12] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: well one issue im having is how to include certain options at the lower tier suits. for example the new APEX fit all include ewar modules. theres no way to fit those on a STD suit without completely breaking it. a STD cal assault suit has only 1 low slot. how does a new player participate in ewar when they will need a shield regulator as part of their basic survival? do we really expect them to drop an extender to fit a precision mod? im asking because if ewar is to become a greater part of the meta, it should be introduced as early as possible, but the current slot layout wont allow for that. you can look at any of the starter fits and see that. so do we say that ewar is something you can only think of getting into once you can run ADV or PRO suits? considering the work done to standardize slot layouts, id rather not have to them redone. id point to the base scan stats on suits as where we could add ewar without having to add slots. its important to remember that if the plan is for new players to use these as they progress, then we cant have them being fodder to scouts which STD and probably ADV suits couldnt feasibly counter . unless we want to say that only scouts can counter scouts, which is what i thought we were trying to fix. I would say, don't worry about EWAR until ADV or even PRO. HP is king for new Players, even though in the Academy, you might be pretty sneaky with only one damp :) "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

shaman oga Krullefor Organization 3297	Posted - 2014.11.24 13:02:00 - [13] - Quote Not to be annoying, but non specialistic frames (except heavies), have terribad resources and no bonus, it will be hard to make a decent fit with them. Situational awareness also known as passive scan.
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5169	Posted - 2014.11.24 13:45:00 - [14] - Quote I think we should hold off on proto fittings until we have a full set of standard fittings. The whole point of this is to help the newbros out right? If anything, a better system for proto would be to have would he some way to "upvote" fittings (such as on the dust fittings website), and then the highest ranked fittings would be put up for purchase. Think along the lines of a weekly thing where we poll the community as to what the best logi fits are, or the best scout fits. Again, this can happen AFTER the basic suits are decided. And please don't include fittings for the frame suits. We want to encourage players to actually skill into a role rather than just using basic frames. I would be okay with mlt suits using standard gear, but not the frame suits. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5069	Posted - 2014.11.24 13:49:00 - [15] - Quote If you are giving multiple people Write access to the document, remember to back it up often. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2731	Posted - 2014.11.24 13:50:00 - [16] - Quote Reserved for some ideas when my internet is back and I am not hotspotting. Seriously, Cox can go have coitus with the Devil in Hell. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5170	Posted - 2014.11.24 14:01:00 - [17] - Quote Oh, and please, before any of this is discussed we need to standardize logistics progression. We can't make suggestions of fittings for broken suits, such as the gallente standard logi with only 2 low slots... 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
shaman oga Krullefor Organization 3298	Posted - 2014.11.24 14:04:00 - [18] - Quote Despite being a third party site, i think that protofits.com should be advertised directly in game, many problems would be solved. Situational awareness also known as passive scan.
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2614	Posted - 2014.11.24 14:18:00 - [19] - Quote Should we have a PRO basic medium fit? That might mislead a new player into making some very regrettable SP investments... Best PvE idea ever!

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 11991	Posted - 2014.11.24 14:26:00 - [20] - Quote we could make a PRO basic fit, and then solemnly swear to use that result as an incentive to fix it? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3368	Posted - 2014.11.24 14:35:00 - [21] - Quote Is the sheet supposed to be blank? supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 11991	Posted - 2014.11.24 14:42:00 - [22] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Is the sheet supposed to be blank? Yes :), I haven't had time to accept sharing requests yet. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5293	Posted - 2014.11.24 14:54:00 - [23] - Quote Recommendation for calsent: Ishukone assault forge (standard and breach forge guns are awful and encourage sniping not AV) ADV Bolt Pistol STD Locus Complex Shield extender x3 Complex shield energizer complex Shield Regulator Reasoning: most efficient AV fit I have found so far. This is the one I use to gigglemurder True Adamance. Damage mods fail to alter TTK at all. The Breach is the only Forge with alpha high enough to potentially alter TTK. Full shields give you a chance to survive and regenerate rapidly. The Regulator does make a difference. When your shields are down you are dead. Period. That 1 sec depleted delat can be dropped to slightly longer than an RR charge time and the non depleted delay (like at 75% shields gone) can be traumatizing in the extreme. You want to minimize the time you are not at 100% shields as much as you can. Ishukone Assault Forge because it's the only efficient AV platform for sentinels and if you can splash a scout you might live. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5293	Posted - 2014.11.24 15:05:00 - [24] - Quote Minmatar Sentinel recommendation: Six Kin Burst HMG ADV breach SMG STD Flux Grenade Complex Shield Extender x2 Complex Shield Energizer x1 Complex KinCat Complex dampener This is the ambush murder gorilla. In fast, hit hard, kill one, maybe two enemies, get the hell out and recover so you can do it again. One complex damp will let you get under an assault or logi passive scans for maximum shock value. Burst HMG because you're a minmatar. Standing in one place for very long Is a great way to get exterminated. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5171	Posted - 2014.11.24 15:08:00 - [25] - Quote In the process of making fittings for a video later... Currently working on assault and sentinels, and one thing came up. not everyone has the same opinions on sidearms, equipment or grenades, and really it's more of a preference anyways... So for standard fittings I'm just leaving these slots empty. The thing we should focus on is the high/lows, as the weapon should be obvious (hmgs for sentinels, racial rifle for assault). 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5294	Posted - 2014.11.24 15:11:00 - [26] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: In the process of making fittings for a video later... Currently working on assault and sentinels, and one thing came up. not everyone has the same opinions on sidearms, equipment or grenades, and really it's more of a preference anyways... So for standard fittings I'm just leaving these slots empty. The thing we should focus on is the high/lows, as the weapon should be obvious (hmgs for sentinels, racial rifle for assault). Unless we're going to do an AV and HMG fit for sentinels I think making amarr and minmatar the HMG carriers and the gallente and caldari AV would be best. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
iKILLu osborne Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 487	Posted - 2014.11.24 15:12:00 - [27] - Quote considering every thing is frames-ehp stacked now if we are talking about specialised fits i have several takes on them but were not lp cal scout i demand it z platoon, cfw channel
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5294	Posted - 2014.11.24 15:13:00 - [28] - Quote Hey since traditionally standardized equipment fits ate cheaper because they are mass produced as-is any chance we can make these standard fits cheaper than piecemeal customized fits? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Varoth Drac Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 398	Posted - 2014.11.24 15:27:00 - [29] - Quote Are we doing only standard modules on standard suits? It's just that, with very low level core skills, and a small amount of extra sp, you can easilly fit enhanced shields on a standard Caldari assault, for example. Something I would definately do if I was a new player.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5294	Posted - 2014.11.24 15:28:00 - [30] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Are we doing only standard modules on standard suits? It's just that, with very low level core skills, and a small amount of extra sp, you can easilly fit enhanced shields on a standard Caldari assault, for example. Something I would definately do if I was a new player. I think we are aiming for as much tier matching as we can. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.



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