DUST Search - [Suggestion] Change Objective location in GRF Domination

Fox Gaden wrote:

The location of the Objective Terminal in Gallente Research Facility domination is generating anti-Sentinel hate, and for good reason.

I also feel that the location of this Objective forces people into the HMG Sentinel role and is a major contributor to there being too many HMG Sentinels. Unlike other Domination maps were a wide variety of tactics and combat styles can be used, the Gallente Research Facility objective location forces everyone into close quarter combat in a pit with only two lines of approach.

In such conditions Assault suits are at an extreme disadvantage compared to Sentinels and Scouts. I have been seeing less and less Assault suits, and more and more HMG Sentinels in GRF Dom over the last few months. I think this is because this map sucks for Assault and many Assault players are skilling into HMG Sentinel for this map in particular.

My suggestion is to move the Objective from the location of the Skirmish GÇ£AGÇ¥ Objective to the location of the Skirmish GÇ£BGÇ¥ objective. This would provide a better mix of long range and close quarter combat. The location is accessible on one side by three narrow bridges (girders), from the bottom through two star wells (CQC), and from the other side via a large bridge.

Even for a Dedicated HMG Sentinel like me, I think the Skirmish GÇ£BGÇ¥ location would be more fun to defend in a Domination match than the pit that Skirmish GÇ£AGÇ¥ is in, it's more dynamic, and for an Assault fit with a Rifle the Skirmish GÇ£BGÇ¥ location would be a thousand times better I am sure.

I donGÇÖt have a problem with Skirmish GÇ£AGÇ¥ in a Skirmish match, as there are 3 or 4 other objectives that the Assaults can focus on.

Gallente Research Facility
The Objective in Domination is located at J7 in the basement, and I am suggesting to move it to E5 on the second floor.

Skirmish Objective Locations
Sometimes there is an Objective "C" in the large socket as well but "A" and "B" are always in the same place.)

And in exchange for making Assault playerGÇÖs lives easier in GRF Dom, can we maybe drop a box on the other side of the objective in Manus Peak Dom to provide us Sentinels just a little cover?

Edit: Added map links.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 343	Posted - 2014.11.22 12:13:00 - [31] - Quote Though I like the map, as a logi commando heavy, it's petty perfect. But on the other hand I think it would be nice to have more diversity on those maps. Just put the node on any of the three possible locations randomly, and it will vavour different playstyles for each version. There might be some problems with different initial way length to reach said objective, but I think that's a minor problem. Dedicated Minmando Masshole with love for Swarmholing... Not playing logi that much anymore... which is a shame...
Z3dog BIG BAD W0LVES 16	Posted - 2014.11.22 16:24:00 - [32] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: So no one has an opinion on this, one way or the other? For this map if you aren't a repair logi, an armor tanked sentinel, or a RE spamming scout you might as well just leave the battle. Dust 5/14
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2265	Posted - 2014.11.22 16:27:00 - [33] - Quote Z3dog wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: So no one has an opinion on this, one way or the other? For this map if you aren't a repair logi, an armor tanked sentinel, or a RE spamming scout you might as well just leave the battle. lol, I've been all three of those on this map and I agree, this is the only way this map isn't a total meatgrinder. Now, this isn't to say that I don't think this map is fun. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4682	Posted - 2014.11.22 18:14:00 - [34] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: You guys seem to forget that domination is a clusterfuck and its intended to be a clusterfuck. 32 players and only 1 objective well i think its working as intended. And close quarter objectives are the natural playground for heavys so no surprise there. Alaika Arbosa wrote: Z3dog wrote: For this map if you aren't a repair logi, an armor tanked sentinel, or a RE spamming scout you might as well just leave the battle. lol, I've been all three of those on this map and I agree, this is the only way this map isn't a total meatgrinder. Now, this isn't to say that I don't think this map is fun. Kinda this. Some of my favorite battles have occurred on this map. If you get two even teams mashing it out it can be just absolutely beautiful in a Khorne's wet dream kind of way. The main reason I wouldn't like to see the change suggested in the OP, though, is that I don't think any Dom objective should be that well shielded from an orbital. That's what keeps this map in check, IMO. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5038	Posted - 2014.11.22 20:47:00 - [35] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: The main reason I wouldn't like to see the change suggested in the OP, though, is that I don't think any Dom objective should be that well shielded from an orbital. That's what keeps this map in check, IMO. My first response to this was to think sarcastically: GÇ£We still get Orbitals?GÇ¥ But you do actually make a good point. I had not really considered Orbitals when I made the suggestion. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4684	Posted - 2014.11.22 20:55:00 - [36] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: The main reason I wouldn't like to see the change suggested in the OP, though, is that I don't think any Dom objective should be that well shielded from an orbital. That's what keeps this map in check, IMO. My first response to this was to think sarcastically: GÇ£We still get Orbitals?GÇ¥ But you do actually make a good point. I had not really considered Orbitals when I made the suggestion. I do believe the code is still in place for OB's to happen in pubs. Can't be sure though. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6111	Posted - 2014.11.22 20:56:00 - [37] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: The main reason I wouldn't like to see the change suggested in the OP, though, is that I don't think any Dom objective should be that well shielded from an orbital. That's what keeps this map in check, IMO. My first response to this was to think sarcastically: GÇ£We still get Orbitals?GÇ¥ But you do actually make a good point. I had not really considered Orbitals when I made the suggestion. I do believe the code is still in place for OB's to happen in pubs. Can't be sure though. I look forward to the many OB options Rattati was discussing. It will fix at least some problems. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5041	Posted - 2014.11.22 20:59:00 - [38] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Just...no The objective placement is not the issue The fact that there is a supply depot with only two ways in is the issue. Equipment spam is the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_aYzUxOCMo& I think you are referring to a different problem. Yes, equipment spam there can cause a drop in frame rate, although I have never experienced that myself, but that is not the problem that I was eluding too in this thread. I was speaking of the problem with the entire area around the objective being one big series of choke points, which makes Assault suits completely ineffective on that map. I suggested moving the objective to a location that would favor all suits, and not be so limiting for a single suit. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4685	Posted - 2014.11.22 21:12:00 - [39] - Quote I continue to maintain that the supply depot is a red herring as far as lag goes. Worst lag I have literally ever seen was in the "kill the devs" event like a year ago. It was on that map, but it was ambush, and 99% of the fighting took place outside the city. I'm not sure if anyone even hacked the damn thing. Aeon Amadi posted video of it once. It was 1-2 fps at best, like a slide show or something. A few weeks later, I threw a single flux in there and I am not exaggerating when I say I got well over 100WP from that in EQ destruction. There was exactly zero lag. Anyway, it seems to me like people are getting better at flying DS up top and raining down MD rounds. I even got sniped in there once(!)... never could figure out where that freaking ninja master was, but my hat is off to him. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2228	Posted - 2014.11.22 21:14:00 - [40] - Quote I liked your OP, but I wouldn't care if it didn't change. My MinLogi makes bank on that map. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2902	Posted - 2014.11.22 21:50:00 - [41] - Quote Ive played teams that consisted of 14 Sentinels or Heavy frames on this map...there is simply not enough ammo to take them all out. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 11937	Posted - 2014.11.23 04:30:00 - [42] - Quote I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

I-Shayz-I I----------I 5156	Posted - 2014.11.23 05:04:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. PRAISE LORD RATTATI I was surprised this didn't happen alongside the other 1.9 map changes though. (Thank you so much for going through the map feedback section and making MUCH needed changes to fracture road) 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13343	Posted - 2014.11.23 05:13:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. Don't, this is one of the rare supply depots that are actually useful to hold. Most supply depots are out of the way, requiring you to run for 2 minutes to get a resupply, so nobody cares about them. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5156	Posted - 2014.11.23 05:33:00 - [45] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. Don't, this is one of the rare supply depots that are actually useful to hold. Most supply depots are out of the way, requiring you to run for 2 minutes to get a resupply, so nobody cares about them. Then the best option is to move it to an open area that can be accessed from more than two doorways Or an area that can be orbitaled 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1117	Posted - 2014.11.23 06:38:00 - [46] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. Change the location of depot. Chocolate Juice
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 8184	Posted - 2014.11.23 06:52:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. Don't remove it, just move it. Installations are RARE to have in vital areas. Such as the blaster turret on bridge map domination. It's PERFECTLY set up to make defending A tough if someone controls it, since you can zone them so effectively. Same with the Supp Dep here. It's a vital part of winning the match, due to the ability to quickly switch suits and resupply as you need to. It needs to be moved to a place that is a bit harder to defend. This will encourage an actual fight over it, rather than getting there first, spamming HARD and putting sentinels at both entrances. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13345	Posted - 2014.11.23 07:20:00 - [48] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. Don't, this is one of the rare supply depots that are actually useful to hold. Most supply depots are out of the way, requiring you to run for 2 minutes to get a resupply, so nobody cares about them. Then the best option is to move it to an open area that can be accessed from more than two doorways Or an area that can be orbitaled It's also quite a curse to defenders. Mass Drivers, RE's and fluxes shower in, and there isn't much they can do at that point. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2229	Posted - 2014.11.23 08:14:00 - [49] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. Don't, this is one of the rare supply depots that are actually useful to hold. Most supply depots are out of the way, requiring you to run for 2 minutes to get a resupply, so nobody cares about them. Then the best option is to move it to an open area that can be accessed from more than two doorways Or an area that can be orbitaled It's also quite a curse to defenders. Mass Drivers, RE's and fluxes shower in, and there isn't much they can do at that point. Regardless, it's dumb for both sides. Literally **** a contest of who can throw more money at the enemy. No strategy, no tactics, no envelopments or flanks, just run with your most expensive stuff and hope they run out of money before you do. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 184	Posted - 2014.11.23 09:46:00 - [50] - Quote Can't believe people want to get rid this map and game mode combination, I actually really enjoy playing Domination in this map. There have been fun matches... This map + gamemode is the one that sometimes makes me wonder if the mass driver could use a small buff- not to mention locus grenades. Or a normalization of some sort because I usually stick to STD/MIL tier weapons. I would think the weapon would be used much more and devastating considering how often people are bunched up, but my impression of the weapon's lack of effectiveness is probably skewed by the sentinels that are out and about. I still think we should have a mass driver variant that bounces rounds off the walls, but explode upon hitting the floor for taking out equipment and entrenched enemies. Anyways, I too, have found myself wishing that the supply depot was removed before... Although, I do enjoy fighting over it. It would definitely cut back on the equipment spam that ruins the frame rate in this map so often. Then again, don't we have a fix for that in the works, anyways? It might be unnecessary to take it out and we should wait. Another way to fix this indirectly is to fix WP farming, right now a player can run through nanohives from different team mates while emptying an HMG and all the players would get points- I've seen people do this. Maybe CCP should consider making it so a player only causes a certain amount of other players to get WP's with their nanohives within a time limit. Even when I'm on empty, I feel that two nanohives is more than enough to fill up on ammo quite quickly, so I would set it at three people for good measure. If this fix was implemented, I think logistics players would gradually lay their nanohives more strategically- whether for WP farming or legitimate team play. WP farmers would lay them farther out along the way from the supply depot so their nanohives would give them the WP before everybody else's nanohives and they'd be more spread out, more time consuming to spam, they would be easier to get killed while doing so, and easier for the nanohives to get destroyed. Legitimate logistics players would still get to "play logistics" because they follow team mates and lay nanohives as they are requested- ensuring they get to keep their WP rewards. Anyways, I'm of the opinion that the supply depot isn't necessarily the problem itself...

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19277	Posted - 2014.11.23 10:44:00 - [51] - Quote The supply depot is obnoxiously hard to take, but I'm not sure it's the entirety of the problem. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. RATTATI WHERE IS MY DUEL
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 184	Posted - 2014.11.23 11:08:00 - [52] - Quote I also forgot to point out that another part of the problem is that players have the ability to switch their suits at the supply depot to instantly get full health- this is especially annoying because sentinels do it ALL THE TIME.
shaman oga Krullefor Organization 3283	Posted - 2014.11.23 11:33:00 - [53] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. For how long have i suggested this? Situational awareness also known as passive scan.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4691	Posted - 2014.11.23 12:33:00 - [54] - Quote How about we drop a stairwell into that little room from street level somewhere? Make it less of a bunker. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 564	Posted - 2014.11.23 16:43:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. Ya know the most action is not actually happening on the supply depot rather at the objective itself. And things can go really wrong when you are about to get sandwiched from 2 sides then the supply depot becomes a deathtrap. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1326	Posted - 2014.11.23 21:04:00 - [56] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: The location of the Objective Terminal in Gallente Research Facility domination is generating anti-Sentinel hate, and for good reason. I also feel that the location of this Objective forces people into the HMG Sentinel role and is a major contributor to there being too many HMG Sentinels. Unlike other Domination maps were a wide variety of tactics and combat styles can be used, the Gallente Research Facility objective location forces everyone into close quarter combat in a pit with only two lines of approach. In such conditions Assault suits are at an extreme disadvantage compared to Sentinels and Scouts. I have been seeing less and less Assault suits, and more and more HMG Sentinels in GRF Dom over the last few months. I think this is because this map sucks for Assault and many Assault players are skilling into HMG Sentinel for this map in particular. My suggestion is to move the Objective from the location of the Skirmish GÇ£AGÇ¥ Objective to the location of the Skirmish GÇ£BGÇ¥ objective. This would provide a better mix of long range and close quarter combat. The location is accessible on one side by three narrow bridges (girders), from the bottom through two star wells (CQC), and from the other side via a large bridge. Even for a Dedicated HMG Sentinel like me, I think the Skirmish GÇ£BGÇ¥ location would be more fun to defend in a Domination match than the pit that Skirmish GÇ£AGÇ¥ is in, it's more dynamic, and for an Assault fit with a Rifle the Skirmish GÇ£BGÇ¥ location would be a thousand times better I am sure. I donGÇÖt have a problem with Skirmish GÇ£AGÇ¥ in a Skirmish match, as there are 3 or 4 other objectives that the Assaults can focus on. Gallente Research Facility The Objective in Domination is located at J7 in the basement, and I am suggesting to move it to E5 on the second floor. Skirmish Objective Locations Sometimes there is an Objective "C" in the large socket as well but "A" and "B" are always in the same place.) And in exchange for making Assault playerGÇÖs lives easier in GRF Dom, can we maybe drop a box on the other side of the objective in Manus Peak Dom to provide us Sentinels just a little cover? Edit: Added map links. Aww,that's my favorite map. It's the only one scouts can't absolutely dominate. Moving the objective would change it to scout Dom,just like almost every other map. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
ROMULUS H3X research lab 227	Posted - 2014.11.23 21:22:00 - [57] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: The location of the Objective Terminal in Gallente Research Facility domination is generating anti-Sentinel hate, and for good reason. I also feel that the location of this Objective forces people into the HMG Sentinel role and is a major contributor to there being too many HMG Sentinels. Unlike other Domination maps were a wide variety of tactics and combat styles can be used, the Gallente Research Facility objective location forces everyone into close quarter combat in a pit with only two lines of approach. In such conditions Assault suits are at an extreme disadvantage compared to Sentinels and Scouts. I have been seeing less and less Assault suits, and more and more HMG Sentinels in GRF Dom over the last few months. I think this is because this map sucks for Assault and many Assault players are skilling into HMG Sentinel for this map in particular. My suggestion is to move the Objective from the location of the Skirmish GÇ£AGÇ¥ Objective to the location of the Skirmish GÇ£BGÇ¥ objective. This would provide a better mix of long range and close quarter combat. The location is accessible on one side by three narrow bridges (girders), from the bottom through two star wells (CQC), and from the other side via a large bridge. Even for a Dedicated HMG Sentinel like me, I think the Skirmish GÇ£BGÇ¥ location would be more fun to defend in a Domination match than the pit that Skirmish GÇ£AGÇ¥ is in, it's more dynamic, and for an Assault fit with a Rifle the Skirmish GÇ£BGÇ¥ location would be a thousand times better I am sure. I donGÇÖt have a problem with Skirmish GÇ£AGÇ¥ in a Skirmish match, as there are 3 or 4 other objectives that the Assaults can focus on. Gallente Research Facility The Objective in Domination is located at J7 in the basement, and I am suggesting to move it to E5 on the second floor. Skirmish Objective Locations Sometimes there is an Objective "C" in the large socket as well but "A" and "B" are always in the same place.) And in exchange for making Assault playerGÇÖs lives easier in GRF Dom, can we maybe drop a box on the other side of the objective in Manus Peak Dom to provide us Sentinels just a little cover? Edit: Added map links. Okay, with the addition of cheaper and more precise orbitals this type of situation won't be a problem. Nay on changing location. Yay for orbital solutions. FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Ace Boone Capital Acquisitions LLC 391	Posted - 2014.11.23 21:56:00 - [58] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. Don't, this is one of the rare supply depots that are actually useful to hold. Most supply depots are out of the way, requiring you to run for 2 minutes to get a resupply, so nobody cares about them. It's also the sole reason for the god awful lag on that map. Please, Rattati, end it. Only loyal to the republic.
IZI doro Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 15	Posted - 2014.11.24 00:11:00 - [59] - Quote I'm in favor of moving the supply depot. I'm in favor of moving ALL "OMS" installations to areas that are logically acceptable. If Ambush OMS is canon, then all installations are delivered from orbital drop. Then should it not be the case that installations be move to "open-air" locations? Ignorance is only a problem when left untreated. Stop the spread of ignorance with a daily dose of knowledge!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4692	Posted - 2014.11.24 01:17:00 - [60] - Quote Ace Boone wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. Don't, this is one of the rare supply depots that are actually useful to hold. Most supply depots are out of the way, requiring you to run for 2 minutes to get a resupply, so nobody cares about them. It's also the sole reason for the god awful lag on that map. Please, Rattati, end it. No it's not. People need to get this out of their heads. (The godfather of tactical logistics)



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