DUST Search - [Suggestion] Change Objective location in GRF Domination

Fox Gaden wrote:

John Demonsbane wrote:

Raedon Vo-Graza wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens.

or how about... no CRU's, no depots, and no turrets anywhere on any map. then as the battle progresses squads can call in for them like they would an orbital strike.

turrets would cost the least
supply depots would cost more
and CRU's would cost the most

this way the field can become more dynamic, while still hack-able they can can cause drastic changes on the field.

now many could complain that a game running bad would end up with one side redlined with turrets and what not, but that what scouts are for, cloaking through (or more intelligently, around) the blockade and getting spawn pads into the points. also with a little tweaking of the redlines( only for a couple maps), it wouldn't be too hard for tanks to drop them one after another, rack up their own wp and counter with orbital equipment of their own. lol or better yet, let there be a zone where if there is orbital equipment at a certain range of an opposing redline, that mcc starts targeting the structures....... or anything for that matter! redline issue solved! remove the red-line! only cloaked scouts are safe (if only for a moment) from the wrath of the mcc! or if a tank or whatever else feels ballsy they can TRY to get under the mcc for a breif moment to spawn camp, but once inside that "danger zone" your mcc chow.

also, if something like this were to be implemented (which i hope a dev actually considers this) i think that turrets would have to be dropped to their old low health status from days of old to combat spamming, but at the same time make the wp requirement low enough so that the one team doesn't get stomped by ridiculous amounts of turrets form anther team. so basically they are there one moment, and gone the next, very disposable but very powerful

*i envision a day where OE (orbital equipment) rains from the skies, squishing the awestruck blueberry, and crushing the inattentive tank driver.*

Great idea.... which is why it was the original plan for how Dust was supposed to work. The FC was supposed to call in installations and the like, but, well, broken game was broken so it never happened.

Actually they had it working in early Alpha builds, but scrapped it for some reason.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
KenKaniff69 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2514	Posted - 2014.11.24 03:47:00 - [61] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. I disagree. The depot allows a team to get back in the fight if used correctly. Perhaps move the depot to the proposed hackpoint in the OP. Either way the map is extremely unbalanced for one side or the other. ?
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5065	Posted - 2014.11.24 12:56:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. I don't think that is the core problem, but removing it would be the quickest way to find out for sure. I suggest replacing is with a CRU. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5067	Posted - 2014.11.24 13:08:00 - [63] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: Okay, with the addition of cheaper and more precise orbitals this type of situation won't be a problem. Nay on changing location. Yay for orbital solutions. True, the problem became a lot more pronounced when the WP for an Orbital was raised to 50,000. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 38	Posted - 2014.11.24 15:50:00 - [64] - Quote This dom map is formulaic. There is a relatively standard method for taking the objective initially, and for defending it, and several ways of taking it back (alluded to above). I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing as long as there are other maps that offer variety. IMO this map highlights one aspect of play which I personally enjoy because as a Min Logi I can really shine. It has long stretches of smash-mouth HMG supported by repping/hiving Logi work....on both attack and defense. No other map allows those roles to "dominate" better. Other maps and modes allow different skill-sets, fittings, and tactics to shine, making the HMG+repper combo pretty ineffective in them. C'est la vie. But this map is far from a guaranteed win for the team who takes the point first, regardless of collective skill-level. The foolish Heavies who wander out too far get creamed. The rookie Logis who don't hug the walls get ripped. And they both can get indiscriminantly destroyed by REs, Mass Drivers, and orbitals. Admittedly, scans are fairly useless, but there are plenty of maps where they are game-changing. A combination of coordination and tactics CAN retake the point...just not with 5 assaults and 11 scouts on a team. It is one of the few maps that is formulaic and therefore "learnable". As such, I think it is a valuable addition for new players. Is it obvious how you can help if you are an assault or scout? Perhaps not the first 2 or 3 times you play it. But Assaults and Scouts can make a difference. They're just not the "stars" here. Yes, equipment spamming is obvious and disappointing on this dom map. But there are numerous remedies for that being discussed elsewhere. I see no reason to move the supply depot if a solution to equipment spamming is put in place. If the team holding the point is not organized, that supply depot can switch hands pretty quickly and is usually the distraction that allows the point to be taken from the front. Moving the supply depot will certainly result in the objective switching hands MORE OFTEN in a match. But there is something satisfying about a map that encourages the long play strategy of taking a single objective from a well entrenched defender. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 619	Posted - 2014.11.24 18:21:00 - [65] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: This is perfect, and honestly I'm sure I've seen others make the same / similar statements regarding that same Dom. The 'meat grinder' map. Once the objective is taken it becomes a race to get MD on the top ring. That, and pushing other heavies down the hall from the supply depot under suppressive fire from over that doorway. Really, any assault / Scout in that match is just suicidal, lol. Sometimes you get a few skirmishers fighting in the street trying to clear a path for the next round of heavies to push in. Objective REALLY needs to get moved if we expect to see anything besides Sentinel and Logi be used there. Depends on how organized both sides are, in unorganized pubs I can clean up with a Gal Assault and a shotgun. The best thing for assaults and scouts to do in the pit is stay out of the pit and use other vantage points. That Long Corridor is amazing for Rifle spam as long as you have enough teammates keeping up the suppressive fire. Personally I like the map, it at least forces a different play style from everyone then most maps which play out about the same. And honestly when we are talking about Domination the high ground is the dominant strategy for winning on all sockets except for some of the bridge sockets, which is still exercised by red line snipers taking the high ground.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5072	Posted - 2014.11.24 18:27:00 - [66] - Quote This has been an interesting discussion. It looks like the introduction of Bandwidth and making Warbarge Strikes more accessible will shake up the meta in this Domination map a bit. It will be interesting to see how that effects game play. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 619	Posted - 2014.11.24 18:31:00 - [67] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: This has been an interesting discussion. It looks like the introduction of Bandwidth and making Warbarge Strikes more accessible will shake up the meta in this Domination map a bit. It will be interesting to see how that effects game play. I don't think easier to obtain orbitals will help. Mostly just because I don't want WP farming to be an effective win strategy again. Do you really want two groups of two standing off to the side blasting and repping tanks while simoltaenously dropping orbitals on the objective? In my opinion, orbitals should only exist in Factional anyways as WP accumulation is not even close to representing actual team contribution nor do I think it ever could. It tries but there are many ways to abuse it especially with support WP.
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 344	Posted - 2014.11.25 00:04:00 - [68] - Quote Please don't get rid of it, but make different versions for this map. This is one of the few maps where Heavy Logi combos + MD really shine. There are others where the RR is shining and others again where scouts are shining. So just make variations, but don't dump it. It's so much fun sometimes! Dedicated Minmando Masshole with love for Swarmholing... Not playing logi that much anymore... which is a shame...
JUDASisMYhomeboy xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 168	Posted - 2014.11.25 00:17:00 - [69] - Quote The single most fun map in the game you want to change? Why because you're addicted to proto? Your precious k/d? Its A GAME have fun.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6153	Posted - 2014.11.25 00:20:00 - [70] - Quote I would also vote for a change in location for the Supply Depot rather than complete removal. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"

Grimmiers 720	Posted - 2014.11.25 01:08:00 - [71] - Quote How hard would it be to add deployable installations that cost warpoints to drop?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5328	Posted - 2014.11.25 03:35:00 - [72] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. Don't, this is one of the rare supply depots that are actually useful to hold. Most supply depots are out of the way, requiring you to run for 2 minutes to get a resupply, so nobody cares about them. Then the best option is to move it to an open area that can be accessed from more than two doorways Or an area that can be orbitaled It's also quite a curse to defenders. Mass Drivers, RE's and fluxes shower in, and there isn't much they can do at that point. Regardless, it's dumb for both sides. Literally it's a contest of who can throw more money at the enemy. No strategy, no tactics, no envelopments or flanks, just run with your most expensive stuff and hope they run out of money before you do. That's how any hard fought domination is. I used to love them, but I can't stand them since the Mu system hit. It's 1 in 50 dominations for me to get a team that pushes the point. If domination ISK payments were about 3x higher you'd see more people willing to really do as you describe. How else could a domination go? In a good one its not uncommon for a squad to go through 4-5 dropships reclaiming the high ground. It's just simply not worth it to put forth all that effort for most people. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Jack the Rlpper Fearless Infinity 14	Posted - 2014.11.25 04:34:00 - [73] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. Hey CCP I have spent $140.00 on aurum getting respecs each time and each time i get the respec and use it i get dc'd after spending my sp into what i want and when i come back on all the sp is in totally different things i would like my $140.00 worth aur refunded so I can try to get my respec and spend my sp again and hope it does not mess up I dont want to have bad service with you guys after investing so much and writing so many tickets and still nothing yet.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 125	Posted - 2014.11.25 06:51:00 - [74] - Quote Jack the Rlpper wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. Hey CCP I have spent $140.00 on aurum getting respecs each time and each time i get the respec and use it i get dc'd after spending my sp into what i want and when i come back on all the sp is in totally different things i would like my $140.00 worth aur refunded so I can try to get my respec and spend my sp again and hope it does not mess up I dont want to have bad service with you guys after investing so much and writing so many tickets and still nothing yet. Uh, wrong thread? KDR - Kill Die Repeat
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Dust 48	Posted - 2014.11.25 16:49:00 - [75] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. or how about... no CRU's, no depots, and no turrets anywhere on any map. then as the battle progresses squads can call in for them like they would an orbital strike. turrets would cost the least supply depots would cost more and CRU's would cost the most this way the field can become more dynamic, while still hack-able they can can cause drastic changes on the field. now many could complain that a game running bad would end up with one side redlined with turrets and what not, but that what scouts are for, cloaking through (or more intelligently, around) the blockade and getting spawn pads into the points. also with a little tweaking of the redlines( only for a couple maps), it wouldn't be too hard for tanks to drop them one after another, rack up their own wp and counter with orbital equipment of their own. lol or better yet, let there be a zone where if there is orbital equipment at a certain range of an opposing redline, that mcc starts targeting the structures....... or anything for that matter! redline issue solved! remove the red-line! only cloaked scouts are safe (if only for a moment) from the wrath of the mcc! or if a tank or whatever else feels ballsy they can TRY to get under the mcc for a breif moment to spawn camp, but once inside that "danger zone" your mcc chow.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4714	Posted - 2014.11.25 17:09:00 - [76] - Quote Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. or how about... no CRU's, no depots, and no turrets anywhere on any map. then as the battle progresses squads can call in for them like they would an orbital strike. turrets would cost the least supply depots would cost more and CRU's would cost the most this way the field can become more dynamic, while still hack-able they can can cause drastic changes on the field. now many could complain that a game running bad would end up with one side redlined with turrets and what not, but that what scouts are for, cloaking through (or more intelligently, around) the blockade and getting spawn pads into the points. also with a little tweaking of the redlines( only for a couple maps), it wouldn't be too hard for tanks to drop them one after another, rack up their own wp and counter with orbital equipment of their own. lol or better yet, let there be a zone where if there is orbital equipment at a certain range of an opposing redline, that mcc starts targeting the structures....... or anything for that matter! redline issue solved! remove the red-line! only cloaked scouts are safe (if only for a moment) from the wrath of the mcc! or if a tank or whatever else feels ballsy they can TRY to get under the mcc for a breif moment to spawn camp, but once inside that "danger zone" your mcc chow. also, if something like this were to be implemented (which i hope a dev actually considers this) i think that turrets would have to be dropped to their old low health status from days of old to combat spamming, but at the same time make the wp requirement low enough so that the one team doesn't get stomped by ridiculous amounts of turrets form anther team. so basically they are there one moment, and gone the next, very disposable but very powerful i envision a day where OE (orbital equipment) rains from the skies, squishing the awestruck blueberry, and crushing the inattentive tank driver. Great idea.... which is why it was the original plan for how Dust was supposed to work. The FC was supposed to call in installations and the like, but, well, broken game was broken so it never happened. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5101	Posted - 2014.11.25 17:12:00 - [77] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. or how about... no CRU's, no depots, and no turrets anywhere on any map. then as the battle progresses squads can call in for them like they would an orbital strike. turrets would cost the least supply depots would cost more and CRU's would cost the most this way the field can become more dynamic, while still hack-able they can can cause drastic changes on the field. now many could complain that a game running bad would end up with one side redlined with turrets and what not, but that what scouts are for, cloaking through (or more intelligently, around) the blockade and getting spawn pads into the points. also with a little tweaking of the redlines( only for a couple maps), it wouldn't be too hard for tanks to drop them one after another, rack up their own wp and counter with orbital equipment of their own. lol or better yet, let there be a zone where if there is orbital equipment at a certain range of an opposing redline, that mcc starts targeting the structures....... or anything for that matter! redline issue solved! remove the red-line! only cloaked scouts are safe (if only for a moment) from the wrath of the mcc! or if a tank or whatever else feels ballsy they can TRY to get under the mcc for a breif moment to spawn camp, but once inside that "danger zone" your mcc chow. also, if something like this were to be implemented (which i hope a dev actually considers this) i think that turrets would have to be dropped to their old low health status from days of old to combat spamming, but at the same time make the wp requirement low enough so that the one team doesn't get stomped by ridiculous amounts of turrets form anther team. so basically they are there one moment, and gone the next, very disposable but very powerful i envision a day where OE (orbital equipment) rains from the skies, squishing the awestruck blueberry, and crushing the inattentive tank driver. Great idea.... which is why it was the original plan for how Dust was supposed to work. The FC was supposed to call in installations and the like, but, well, broken game was broken so it never happened. Actually they had it working in early Alpha builds, but scrapped it for some reason. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Dust 49	Posted - 2014.11.25 18:03:00 - [78] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should just remove the Depot and see what happens. or how about... no CRU's, no depots, and no turrets anywhere on any map. then as the battle progresses squads can call in for them like they would an orbital strike. turrets would cost the least supply depots would cost more and CRU's would cost the most this way the field can become more dynamic, while still hack-able they can can cause drastic changes on the field. now many could complain that a game running bad would end up with one side redlined with turrets and what not, but that what scouts are for, cloaking through (or more intelligently, around) the blockade and getting spawn pads into the points. also with a little tweaking of the redlines( only for a couple maps), it wouldn't be too hard for tanks to drop them one after another, rack up their own wp and counter with orbital equipment of their own. lol or better yet, let there be a zone where if there is orbital equipment at a certain range of an opposing redline, that mcc starts targeting the structures....... or anything for that matter! redline issue solved! remove the red-line! only cloaked scouts are safe (if only for a moment) from the wrath of the mcc! or if a tank or whatever else feels ballsy they can TRY to get under the mcc for a breif moment to spawn camp, but once inside that "danger zone" your mcc chow. also, if something like this were to be implemented (which i hope a dev actually considers this) i think that turrets would have to be dropped to their old low health status from days of old to combat spamming, but at the same time make the wp requirement low enough so that the one team doesn't get stomped by ridiculous amounts of turrets form anther team. so basically they are there one moment, and gone the next, very disposable but very powerful i envision a day where OE (orbital equipment) rains from the skies, squishing the awestruck blueberry, and crushing the inattentive tank driver. Great idea.... which is why it was the original plan for how Dust was supposed to work. The FC was supposed to call in installations and the like, but, well, broken game was broken so it never happened. Actually they had it working in early Alpha builds, but scrapped it for some reason. With Rattati and this new team, maybe it's time to bring it back, get it working, and add some tactical uncertainty to this game. otherwise it stays dull, tanks and hackers farming them for points but the rest of the team not using them(i believe) mostly due to useless placements (especially certain turrets). now, i understand that spawn links are supposed to be the tools that bring people into the thick of a fight, especially in a structure or compound, but there is a real advantage of using OE for those objectives that are out in the open or defend the perimeter of said compound. not to mention a good coordinated team can use OE to make a slow assault by providing a spawn point that can't be fluxed, that regenerates ammo, and has heavy covering fire to boot. not to mention we could possibly get the command node (which seems to never have existed) as a fortified deploy-able bunker. not to mention we could have a small turret installation, walls, sniper towers, shield domes....whoops hang on I'm thinking about Starhawk right now.... hey Rattati!! look up Starhawk and see if there isn't a note or idea to be taken from that! lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dd61pb3-aE
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5135	Posted - 2014.11.26 16:56:00 - [79] - Quote Here is another solution that would make HMG Sentinels a little less dominant in this map. Still effective, but with a weakness that can be exploited by faster suits. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.


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