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[Suggestion] Change Objective location in GRF Domination

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Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5012	Posted - 2014.11.21 15:16:00 - [1] - Quote The location of the Objective Terminal in Gallente Research Facility domination is generating anti-Sentinel hate, and for good reason. I also feel that the location of this Objective forces people into the HMG Sentinel role and is a major contributor to there being too many HMG Sentinels. Unlike other Domination maps were a wide variety of tactics and combat styles can be used, the Gallente Research Facility objective location forces everyone into close quarter combat in a pit with only two lines of approach. In such conditions Assault suits are at an extreme disadvantage compared to Sentinels and Scouts. I have been seeing less and less Assault suits, and more and more HMG Sentinels in GRF Dom over the last few months. I think this is because this map sucks for Assault and many Assault players are skilling into HMG Sentinel for this map in particular. My suggestion is to move the Objective from the location of the Skirmish GÇ£AGÇ¥ Objective to the location of the Skirmish GÇ£BGÇ¥ objective. This would provide a better mix of long range and close quarter combat. The location is accessible on one side by three narrow bridges (girders), from the bottom through two star wells (CQC), and from the other side via a large bridge. Even for a Dedicated HMG Sentinel like me, I think the Skirmish GÇ£BGÇ¥ location would be more fun to defend in a Domination match than the pit that Skirmish GÇ£AGÇ¥ is in, it's more dynamic, and for an Assault fit with a Rifle the Skirmish GÇ£BGÇ¥ location would be a thousand times better I am sure. I donGÇÖt have a problem with Skirmish GÇ£AGÇ¥ in a Skirmish match, as there are 3 or 4 other objectives that the Assaults can focus on. And in exchange for making Assault playerGÇÖs lives easier in GRF Dom, can we maybe drop a box on the other side of the objective in Manus Peak Dom to provide us Sentinels just a little cover? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5021	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:01:00 - [2] - Quote So no one has an opinion on this, one way or the other? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Lonewolf Heavy Chaotic Company 172	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:12:00 - [3] - Quote Honestly, I have a hard time understanding which sections he is referring to on the research facility, mostly because I am not in a match and usually don't need to be bothered by little things such as that because I just hold down choke points until the enemies start using teamwork to get me out of it. However, the issue of increased number of sentinels has nothing to do with a single map. It has more to do with the simplicity of the heavy frame as a whole. Assaults continue to be unstable due to constant changes towards rifles, sidearms, and equipment. This could be making heavies more appealing because we do not receive much changes, simply because there aren't many weapons to change, we do not use equipment, and our suits are pretty straight forward. Edit: Ok now I know where you are referring to. So, basically.... That spot is designed to be difficult and what makes it perfect for heavies is that it is a choke point. I agree that it could be changed to a different location such as the objective on the upper floors like you said. (Looked at a map) Sentinel/Commando
Terry Webber Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 499	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:16:00 - [4] - Quote I think you should include a link to a picture of the map, Fox. That's probably why people aren't replying.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2265	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:17:00 - [5] - Quote I love running logi in there (and have since we've gotten it). While fun from the inside, I can agree it is infuriating to have to attack it. Remotes are the answer. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 13866	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:21:00 - [6] - Quote Terry Webber wrote: I think you should include a link to a picture of the map, Fox. That's probably why people aren't replying. Gallente Research Facility For reference, "The Pit" is located on J/K-7. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 109	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:26:00 - [7] - Quote This is perfect, and honestly I'm sure I've seen others make the same / similar statements regarding that same Dom. The 'meat grinder' map. Once the objective is taken it becomes a race to get MD on the top ring. That, and pushing other heavies down the hall from the supply depot under suppressive fire from over that doorway. Really, any assault / Scout in that match is just suicidal, lol. Sometimes you get a few skirmishers fighting in the street trying to clear a path for the next round of heavies to push in. Objective REALLY needs to get moved if we expect to see anything besides Sentinel and Logi be used there.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6059	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:32:00 - [8] - Quote Cass has made this point several times. It is just not one area of one map, but multiple areas spread across maps. Many objectives reinforce CQC game play, which plays to the strength of CQC roles, and prevents others from being more viable on the battlefield. To give another example, on Manus Peak, to prevent Objective A from being sniped right at the beginning of battle (and rightfully so), they added barriers right at the objective, instead of around the points near the opposing side spawn where that sniping takes place. As a result, this limits that objective to CQC even if the long range defense/offense of that objective were from more reasonable locations. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 109	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:42:00 - [9] - Quote I think it's fine for 'some' objectives to reinforce particular styles of game play, the issue is when the only one available is completely closed off to all but one style. Maybe this (moving A to B) can be done in a hotfix?
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5026	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:43:00 - [10] - Quote Terry Webber wrote: I think you should include a link to a picture of the map, Fox. That's probably why people aren't replying. Gallente Research Facility (The Objective in Domination is located at J7 in the basement, and I am suggesting to move it to E5 on the second floor.) Skirmish Objective Locations (Sometimes there is an Objective "C" in the large socket as well but "A" and "B" are always in the same place.) Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6059	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:53:00 - [11] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: I think it's fine for 'some' objectives to reinforce particular styles of game play, the issue is when the only one available is completely closed off to all but one style. Maybe this (moving A to B) can be done in a hotfix? I agree, but I would say a majority of objectives fit the description. Many are enclosed in buildings, even when not within cities on a 5 point map. Pretty much all city objectives are CQC. If they are somewhat open, they are sometimes in depressions that also enforce CQC. There really aren't a lot of objectives open enough to support mid and long range weaponry and tactics. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Funkmaster Whale Whale Pod 2511	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:54:00 - [12] - Quote Yeah the Gallente Lag Facility is probably one of the worst contenders for Sentinel spam. That and the Orbital Canon socket where A and B are located right next to each other are prime for HMG camping. It's not really a bad thing. It's just advantageous gameplay. There's ways to adapt around it but problem is not very many. The only real "counter" to Sentinel spam is well-placed REs. The only thing that would "fix" Sentinel spam is a change in meta. If you nerfed the HMG or their HP then a Heavy becomes pretty useless. If more of the game revolved around medium and long range engagements to get objectives then you wouldn't see so many Heavies camping objectives. Follow me on Twitch.tv!
sir RAVEN WING Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 382	Posted - 2014.11.21 21:10:00 - [13] - Quote I love using my assault there. I just need 2 LAVs to block the tunnels and it becomes a lot more fun. Anyway, as soon as heavies come in they basically hod it from there until the Scoutybirds sht out some REs on their heads. I'll support this, will be sad having 1 less place to wedge LAVs, but whatever. "I shall fight for my people until I can't come back."*
Iron Toast Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2014.11.21 21:13:00 - [14] - Quote Can we have both variants? I like more options! That's one of my favorite points (Skirmish B). Using the B skirmish point, we would also need to add ladders up to the ledge (maybe the tower too?) that overlooks that point from the large bridge side. It is difficult to hack when the other team controls that position.
Silver Strike44 208	Posted - 2014.11.21 21:28:00 - [15] - Quote I dont know that the location of that objective is what causes people to spec into sentinels, but I do like the idea of moving the objective to that new location. www.nickmunsonisjesus.com
TRULY ELITE WarRavens Capital Punishment. 183	Posted - 2014.11.21 21:47:00 - [16] - Quote Or we could have the meat grinder objective in domination and also the one you proposed, more variety is more fun.
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken Going for the gold 332	Posted - 2014.11.21 22:09:00 - [17] - Quote Just get rid of the whole damn map!! It's the place where your framerate goes to die. That moment when you mow down a proto Caldari assault suit with a militia laser rifle. Words can't describe it.
Terry Webber Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 501	Posted - 2014.11.21 22:37:00 - [18] - Quote If moving the point to E5 in Domination helps involve more roles, I fully support it. It would provide a lot more flanking opportunities and tactics which would result in the point flipping more often.
IZI doro Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 12	Posted - 2014.11.21 23:24:00 - [19] - Quote +1 This particular Objective location is an anomaly of all the Domination maps. tl;dr: There should be more than 3 points of entry to access the Objective terminal. Each Objective location must demand a dynamic defense in order to be "fun" The Pit Objective needs a relocation to improve gameplay dynamics and mechanics ________________ My Reasoning: Objective locations should be defensible, meaning they can be fortified to an extent, but not "completely" impregnable. Objective locations should have more than 3 "avenues" of attack from which to defend, thus making defense of the Objective dynamic instead of static. Each "avenue of attack" should only be defended by a single, full squad of personnel (6 mercenaries). Objective locations should mandate CQC / CQB to access the terminal, but NOT eliminate long range support in the "securing" of said terminal. ________________ Feedback: "The Pit," as Fox has named it, has only "3" avenues of possible attack[list] The portal leading to the exit The portal leading to the supply depot The opening above the objective to allow the NULL Cannon to fire its payload (Almost never used due to the general inaccessibility) In actuality, this effectively brings the number of viable entry / exit points to two, thus making the vicinity around the Objective virtually impregnable against less than an OB-assisted blitz maneuver. Whenever playing on the Gallente Research Facility (GRF) socket, whoever can fortify the point and send out the most Sentinels first, usually is the winner, with little to no effort in defense. This violates the need for a "dynamic defense" that has to adapt to the situation and the need for multiple avenues of attack. I've stated that a 6-man squad should defend each portal, but that is theory. In order to evenly spread the manpower of each platoon around an objective, a squad should be charged with each portal. The platoon can allocate their manpower however way they wish, but since the GRF Objective makes it so that the de facto allocation of manpower is everyone dog-piled onto the Objective. ________________ Domination Design Consideration: 2 ports of entry / 16 personnel = 8 per portal 3 ports of entry / 16 personnel = 5.333... per portal 4 ports of entry / 16 personnel = 4 per portal etc... Every battle is a battle of attrition for me. 100hp in 5 seconds helps though
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3978	Posted - 2014.11.22 00:24:00 - [20] - Quote Odd, unless I'm misreading the map grid somehow this objective is one of my favorite Dom maps. If it is the one I am thinking of doesn't it have three points of access when you include from above? Or am I somehow thinking of the wrong location? If it is the one I am thinking of (with the depot down the hall in skirmish maps) then it makes for great fire team work. Have someone tanky (hmg is great but commando or bricked assault works too) push up with rep support while guys with RR, SR, LR, ScR have lines of sight on some of the angles of approach to soften up the opposing force. When the lines breach sprinters and fast hackers move in with REs, flux, Shotty, to clear gear and soft targets. It is one of the only Dom maps that does not just devolve into a convoluted game of "who can fly a DS with uplinks the highest". Even when I never touch a heavy frame (mando or sent) in the match this is one of my favorite settings and I wish there were more like it... this will become even more true if/when we get those new OB options in game I may be in the minority here, but that's my two cents ~Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)

Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1202	Posted - 2014.11.22 01:21:00 - [21] - Quote I think the objective should be somewhat randomized, instead of being locked down to a single point for every match that takes place on that map. Sometimes it will be "A", other times it would be " B"... and so on. They should do this for every map. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1321	Posted - 2014.11.22 01:57:00 - [22] - Quote Fly up to the top part of the silo and MD them Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2115	Posted - 2014.11.22 02:23:00 - [23] - Quote The Caldari Production Facility also has this issue, especially on Dom. The entire team just piles into the control room w/ one or two logi's slapping frisbees and needles around, and the rest just ALL heavies. Sometimes theres a few Proto Salts. The attacking team has to either A) Force their way through the front door w/ all the heavies, or B) Force their way through the back opening behind the panel w/ All the heavies. If the maps didn't so heavily support CQC in every way, then perhaps Sentinels wouldn't be so powerful. I remember the Battery map once having the far obbys be real open, w/ some cover, but a long way from anyplace. So people could attack the obbys at range, and then go for the hack, instead of trying to muscle your way through the ever so thick heavies in CQC, you could then engage them where they couldn't fight back. Because you wanted to be something you're not. A hero. Do you feel like one now?
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2115	Posted - 2014.11.22 02:27:00 - [24] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: I think it's fine for 'some' objectives to reinforce particular styles of game play, the issue is when the only one available is completely closed off to all but one style. Maybe this (moving A to B) can be done in a hotfix? I think it is ok for the some obbys to support CQC, but those obby's shouldn't be the only ones on the map. I remember some big factory map (can't remember the name, never really can), where you could shoot at the objective below from the roof, as well as going through the machinery and going CQC. It had several playstyles viable for the map. Because you wanted to be something you're not. A hero. Do you feel like one now?
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 553	Posted - 2014.11.22 05:05:00 - [25] - Quote You guys seem to forget that domination is a clusterfuck and its intended to be a clusterfuck. 32 players and only 1 objective well i think its working as intended. And close quarter objectives are the natural playground for heavys so no surprise there. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
IZI doro Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 13	Posted - 2014.11.22 05:57:00 - [26] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Odd, unless I'm misreading the map grid somehow this objective is one of my favorite Dom maps. If it is the one I am thinking of doesn't it have three points of access when you include from above? Or am I somehow thinking of the wrong location? [ text omitted for brevity ] I may be in the minority here, but that's my two cents ~Cross Yes, that is the map. It DOES have three points of access, as you have mentioned, when including from above. The problem is that the dispersion of manpower for the "defending team" is actually concentrated within that 10m radius around the Objective's terminal. Meeko Fent wrote: The Caldari Production Facility also has this issue, especially on Dom. The entire team just piles into the control room w/ one or two logi's slapping frisbees and needles around, and the rest just ALL heavies. Sometimes theres a few Proto Salts. [ text omitted for brevity ] This socket also has a similar concentration of manpower within a 10m radius around the point. In all honesty, the more I've thought about the Domination matches I've played on these maps, the more I realize it's more of a Prototype / Sentinel / Equipment spamming issue. I believe that when compounded together, the spamming and location design just create a problem specific to these sockets. I would still like to have the idea considered Ignorance is only a problem when left untreated. Stop the spread of ignorance with a daily dose of knowledge!
iKILLu osborne Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 486	Posted - 2014.11.22 07:18:00 - [27] - Quote TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote: Just get rid of the whole damn map!! It's the place where your framerate goes to die. you shut your mouth, that is my favorite map lp cal scout i demand it z platoon, cfw channel
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3985	Posted - 2014.11.22 09:02:00 - [28] - Quote The least fun Dom (for me at least) is consistently Manus "redline" peak. It may not have the same close quarters issues but sitting strung out along the redline, yours or theirs, while people run back and forth crossed it and are sniped by Thales and Rails grows tedious in 45 seconds or less and seems to be the majority of play on that map. This really may just be a matter of differing tastes. ~Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1920	Posted - 2014.11.22 10:04:00 - [29] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Odd, unless I'm misreading the map grid somehow this objective is one of my favorite Dom maps. If it is the one I am thinking of doesn't it have three points of access when you include from above? Or am I somehow thinking of the wrong location? If it is the one I am thinking of (with the depot down the hall in skirmish maps) then it makes for great fire team work. Have someone tanky (hmg is great but commando or bricked assault works too) push up with rep support while guys with RR, SR, LR, ScR have lines of sight on some of the angles of approach to soften up the opposing force. When the lines breach sprinters and fast hackers move in with REs, flux, Shotty, to clear gear and soft targets. It is one of the only Dom maps that does not just devolve into a convoluted game of "who can fly a DS with uplinks the highest". Even when I never touch a heavy frame (mando or sent) in the match this is one of my favorite settings and I wish there were more like it... this will become even more true if/when we get those new OB options in game I may be in the minority here, but that's my two cents ~Cross no thats nonsense tactics. true way to take that letter is get your logiis repping the heavys bang out generate a OB drop the OB and rush in. once you have control of the letter you push your team out so you don't get counter OBed. KEQ diplomat/ lolromansboat cost more then your whole village
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5146	Posted - 2014.11.22 11:44:00 - [30] - Quote Just...no The objective placement is not the issue The fact that there is a supply depot with only two ways in is the issue. Equipment spam is the issue 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!



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