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Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 998	Posted - 2014.11.24 09:27:00 - [31] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: but that dosnt help much when against high SP ADS pilots with full proto mods getting 80% resist to explosive with maybe 10 second downtime on that. Would you please stop spouting nonsense. This is how hardeners work. You do not add the percentages together, they apply to the remaining amount from the previous reduction, meaning even with infinite hardeners (and because of stacking penalties) you can never get immunity to damage. Also bear in mind that Swarms are explosive (-20/+20) and so against hardened shields they should be ineffective... Yet unless you're double hardener they're still a big threat. Blueprint For Murder wrote: I am a pilot as much as I am an AVer [...] I don't feel any knock back when I am hit by swarms There are three possible reasons for the above statement: - you are lying, or - you are not a pilot like you think you are (ie, you don't actually fight in one), or - you are playing an entirely different game altogether. Swarms do have ridiculous impulse effects and it can be from one missile alone or combined by others in a volley, but even ADSs have difficulty in righting themselves when flipped unless flying high/out of reasonable engagement range. If you are not experiencing impulse effects from enemy Swarms, you need to mount up, go find some and actually experience the same game we are. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
The Master Race Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 401	Posted - 2014.11.24 09:52:00 - [32] - Quote Lol what reason would I possibly have to lie? There is one possible reason you didn't think of m8: - You freak out when engaged and crash As for AZ she prolly didn't realize there was a hardener nerf. and that it is - 60% now I did not realize it myself until a week ago. Kallas your assumptions and arguments make you look like a fool this is just a discussion it is 0 sum there is no reason to be foul, maybe you should grow up. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui VEHICLEBUSTERS Demolitions and Logistics Corp . 1466	Posted - 2014.11.24 09:52:00 - [33] - Quote I knew somebody would start talking about AV needing a buff but at least it wouldn't happen until the next tier of vehicles were released . Get ready people because you will see multiple post like this one then . AV needs NO BUFF . Vehicles need no buff . So what missile changes , it still won't throw anything off and if so Rattatti will be right on it changing and fixing the problem because the community is in paranoia mode , much like yourself OP ... 24 / 7 . I AV EVERY MATCH and I would be the first asking for a buff if it was necessary . I fly EVERY MATCH and a missile change is needed about as much as a small blaster change to help those turrets become relevant but that doesn't mean that now AV will be underpowered . AV more then you will see what your doing wrong and like someone else said , " Quit complaining that you can't OKH vehicles with a militia swarm . " Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Blueprint For Murder Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 401	Posted - 2014.11.24 09:52:00 - [34] - Quote Lol what reason would I possibly have to lie? There is one possible reason you didn't think of m8: - You freak out when engaged and crash As for AZ she prolly didn't realize there was a hardener nerf. and that it is - 60% now I did not realize it myself until a week ago. Kallas your assumptions and arguments make you look like a fool this is just a discussion it is 0 sum there is no reason to be foul, maybe you should grow up. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Blueprint For Murder Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 401	Posted - 2014.11.24 10:14:00 - [35] - Quote You might actually serve discussions if you read them. You are really telling me you don't see a problem with being able to put every missile you have into a tank and it just heal through it, tanks speed with no mount time so they can instantly fight primary weapon vs side arm against you, or ads being able to easily ohk you or just rotate out if they miss.... really? These are not even considering the other dangers like insta pinging infantry lol and you don't think there is issue with the risk/reward in these scenarios? The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1511	Posted - 2014.11.24 10:21:00 - [36] - Quote Currently maxing out my Python skills - Gotta Catch Dat FOTM Yo My biggest complaints are...... - Rail Turrets - Installation // HAV - Forges (The point and blap skill weapon) damn they hurt, and most FG'ers are very accurate - When the enemy team take 2+ Swarms at once. Other than that, I'm having a lot of fun, Infantry fights are tough and Proto AV is common I rarely go a game in an ads without seeing a Ishukone Assault Forge // Wk.Swarms - Pilots leaving vehicles.. Tankers have created a great counter to ADS.. drive while using AFG//SL (I'd love to see this removed) As for an ADS being to powerful... 2/3 shots from a skilled AV weapon is enough to kill/scare an ADS Enough for them to need another 40-50 secs to retreat, recharge and then come back for round 2
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14987	Posted - 2014.11.24 10:40:00 - [37] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Is it just me or is there a ton of ads in every match and that they have the ability to ohk again? Have you guys seen the proposed missile turret changes? With the planned changes to you think that they should buff AV? What do you guys think the balance will look like DS.<.DS.>>.Tank>.Tank.>>.infantry.>.AVx2.<.<.DS I personally dread the thought of a few pilots being able to completely control the field because AV is still so ineffective that we already see it. AV itself is no more of less effective and its damn punchy already I think we can all roughly agree. I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this. Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui VEHICLEBUSTERS Demolitions and Logistics Corp . 1466	Posted - 2014.11.24 10:41:00 - [38] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: You might actually serve discussions if you read them. You are really telling me you don't see a problem with being able to put every missile you have into a tank and it just heal through it, tanks speed with no mount time so they can instantly fight primary weapon vs side arm against you, or ads being able to easily ohk you or just rotate out if they miss.... really? These are not even considering the other dangers like insta pinging infantry lol and you don't think there is issue with the risk/reward in these scenarios? That's what you skill into the SP tree for , just like infantry and the ability to run faster and heal stamina quicker and have better endurance or e-war so you can see , not be seen and have the range TO see or weapons , to max out one for BETTER performance , now you can do all these things as well and they HELP the role or your role in it's performance . Same with the vehicle skill tree and rightfully so because it HELPS out a roles as well and those who use and play as infantry AND use vehicles are paying TWICE and sometimes 4 times the price in turrets , weapons , infantry skill tree and vehicle as well , all WITH mods , so how is this not working as intended ? Sometimes you people can be so shortsighted and only seeing things YOUR way and not for the betterment of all . There all cogs in the same machine , there what's making the machine work and they work all together . One of the reasons I play because of the complexity . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui VEHICLEBUSTERS Demolitions and Logistics Corp . 1466	Posted - 2014.11.24 10:43:00 - [39] - Quote Part of the reason why this game suffers from nerf and buff syndrome . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Blueprint For Murder Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 401	Posted - 2014.11.24 11:14:00 - [40] - Quote Lol so your sp choice and isk investment should allow obvious imbalances in the game because it is better for it gtfo are you for real bro. The other reasons are bad input and don't nerf me bro in a obviously imbalanced game, so imbalanced it is called a sandbox game. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc

General Mosquito Kinsho Swords Caldari State 19	Posted - 2014.11.24 11:21:00 - [41] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Is it just me or is there a ton of ads in every match and that they have the ability to ohk again? Have you guys seen the proposed missile turret changes? With the planned changes to you think that they should buff AV? What do you guys think the balance will look like DS.<.DS.>>.Tank>.Tank.>>.infantry.>.AVx2.<.<.DS I personally dread the thought of a few pilots being able to completely control the field because AV is still so ineffective that we already see it. If railguns hadn't been nerfed into the ground, then maybe dropships wouldn't be such a pain in the ass. General Butt Naked - Biomassed The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned Only 9 more alts to go.
General Mosquito Kinsho Swords Caldari State 19	Posted - 2014.11.24 11:22:00 - [42] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: You might actually serve discussions if you read them. You are really telling me you don't see a problem with being able to put every missile you have into a tank and it just heal through it, tanks speed with no mount time so they can instantly fight primary weapon vs side arm against you, or ads being able to easily ohk you or just rotate out if they miss.... really? These are not even considering the other dangers like insta pinging infantry lol and you don't think there is issue with the risk/reward in these scenarios? I've never seen you play, but from the way you whine, no doubt you are terrible. General Butt Naked - Biomassed The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned Only 9 more alts to go.
Nirwanda Vaughns 971	Posted - 2014.11.24 11:35:00 - [43] - Quote AV vs Armour = OP AV vs Shield = Pathetic something needs doing about the damage profile for the primary AV (forge and swarms) until at least racial AV is introduced. tactics vs gunloggi's arn't too bad, you can have a cloaked scout run up and flux/PLC one as a forge gunner hits it, with shield based DS/ADS though current AV is pretty poor against them, not the easiest thing to hit a DS with a PLC. the reason there are so many shield vehicles is because everyone knows AV sucks vs them, there isn't any benefit to using a maddy over a gunloggi, its slower and av does +35% damage to its armour. there needs to be more balance between the AV and Vehicles themselves so there is a real choice between the two Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 15184	Posted - 2014.11.24 14:04:00 - [44] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Is it just me or is there a ton of ads in every match and that they have the ability to ohk again? Have you guys seen the proposed missile turret changes? With the planned changes to you think that they should buff AV? What do you guys think the balance will look like DS.<.DS.>>.Tank>.Tank.>>.infantry.>.AVx2.<.<.DS I personally dread the thought of a few pilots being able to completely control the field because AV is still so ineffective that we already see it. If railguns hadn't been nerfed into the ground, then maybe dropships wouldn't be such a pain in the ass. Damage stacked rails still two shot just about every single dropship fit...... Flight Academy coming soon(tm) to my YouTube Fly Safe
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 15184	Posted - 2014.11.24 14:11:00 - [45] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Sir Snugglz wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: but that dosnt help much when against high SP ADS pilots with full proto mods getting 80% resist to explosive with maybe 10 second downtime on that. Fun fact, aside from the ONE XT-1 Missile Turret and ONE Complex PG Module, the rest of the modules are a mixer of basic and enhanced stuff. Not because i dont want all proto stuff, but because there is not enough PG/CPU to fit all that fun stuff. Secondly, I dont use hardeners so no 80% resistances. You only run one PG? What do you run in the second slot? I just checked. there aint no second slot fool Oh yea haha they went 3/1 Its been a while since ive paid enough attention haha. God I miss when we had more than 3 fits for vehicles Flight Academy coming soon(tm) to my YouTube Fly Safe
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1003	Posted - 2014.11.24 15:20:00 - [46] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: There is one possible reason you didn't think of m8: - You freak out when engaged and crash I've not crashed because of user error more than a couple of times since I became competent at flying. There have been plenty of times when swarms have flipped my ship by more than 90 degrees on a particular axis, causing me to lose control for too long/not have enough time to upright my ship. Your statement that because you don't notice swarm impulse effects is as anecdotal as anyone's counter point: the difference is that every pilot I speak to - and that I know fly, and I have flown with many, still do - report crazy impulse effects. Blueprint For Murder wrote: As for AZ she prolly didn't realize there was a hardener nerf. and that it is - 60% now I did not realize it myself until a week ago. Well, Za'ki has been corrected before (see the link) and still spouts rubbish. The hardeners changed quite a long time ago and if you're going to try and advocate balance you should know enough about what you're talking about to be taken seriously. Even with 60% hardeners, double hardening would give 73.1% total resistance, which is a pretty far cry from the 95% Za'ki has repeatedly stated. Blueprint For Murder wrote: Kallas your assumptions and arguments make you look like a fool this is just a discussion it is 0 sum there is no reason to be foul, maybe you should grow up. My assumptions were somewhat exaggerated for effect, but not unfair to state. Your feelings on this matter are dichotomous compared to most pilots I've spoken to. And at no point did I disparage your character, only the representation of your experience, since it so wildly fails to match the 1.5 years of my experience and of the many hours flying my fellow pilots have accrued. Flying an ADS is the role I enjoy the most: to me it represent some of the best elements of this game and without the dropships I would leave this pretty lacklustre lobby shooter. I fly, I gun, I act as a transport and I drop as a shock trooper: I love flying and will see to it that it remains a relevant part of the game. Previously I have advocated AV buffs (most notably during the 1.7 horror show) but I cannot abide by people who misrepresent something, whether deliberately or unintentionally. That is my motivation: in answer to your OP question, I feel ADSs are rarer than any time after 1.6; because AV, or rather swarms, is so prolific and effective that the inability to fight back against one is removing the purpose of the ADS. NDSs are serving far better as taxis and while the NDS has slightly less firepower, the trade off for resilience is generally superior. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Isa Lucifer Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 103	Posted - 2014.11.24 19:04:00 - [47] - Quote Swarms are fine, in my opinion. AV vs Vehicules is good. Amarr Victor
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 909	Posted - 2014.11.24 19:20:00 - [48] - Quote Isa Lucifer wrote: Swarms are fine, in my opinion. AV vs Vehicules is good. Here's the thing... Swarms and forges got better.. but now everyone has one. The buff needed to come back in the day when nobody was fully AV. But the fact that they waited so long, there is guarenteed to be atleast one swarmer and forger in every match. -Pro AFKing LVL 5 -Luck is just one of my skills -Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
Isa Lucifer Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 103	Posted - 2014.11.25 00:06:00 - [49] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: Isa Lucifer wrote: Swarms are fine, in my opinion. AV vs Vehicules is good. Here's the thing... Swarms and forges got better.. but now everyone has one. The buff needed to come back in the day when nobody was fully AV. But the fact that they waited so long, there is guarenteed to be atleast one swarmer and forger in every match. Isnt that good? Amarr Victor
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15010	Posted - 2014.11.25 00:13:00 - [50] - Quote Isa Lucifer wrote: Sir Snugglz wrote: Isa Lucifer wrote: Swarms are fine, in my opinion. AV vs Vehicules is good. Here's the thing... Swarms and forges got better.. but now everyone has one. The buff needed to come back in the day when nobody was fully AV. But the fact that they waited so long, there is guarenteed to be atleast one swarmer and forger in every match. Isnt that good? It is. No vehicle be it tank or dropship should find themselves in a match with players would cannot use AV against them. I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this. Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...

TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1357	Posted - 2014.11.25 00:27:00 - [51] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: Isa Lucifer wrote: Swarms are fine, in my opinion. AV vs Vehicules is good. Here's the thing... Swarms and forges got better.. but now everyone has one. The buff needed to come back in the day when nobody was fully AV. But the fact that they waited so long, there is guarenteed to be atleast one swarmer and forger in every match. they need to unerf our reps and/or hardeners, those were nerfed before AV was buffed in an attempt to remedy weaker AV vs ADS.. then they nerfed those and that plus the 1.9 SL was an overkill for many pilots.. tho i dont cry much about current hard mode, i kinda like it sometimes when you do tank a crap ton of AV and still pull off a good flight it feels good to know you did it in 1.9 AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15012	Posted - 2014.11.25 00:34:00 - [52] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: Sir Snugglz wrote: Isa Lucifer wrote: Swarms are fine, in my opinion. AV vs Vehicules is good. Here's the thing... Swarms and forges got better.. but now everyone has one. The buff needed to come back in the day when nobody was fully AV. But the fact that they waited so long, there is guarenteed to be atleast one swarmer and forger in every match. they need to unerf our reps and/or hardeners, those were nerfed before AV was buffed in an attempt to remedy weaker AV vs ADS.. then they nerfed those and that plus the 1.9 SL was an overkill for many pilots.. tho i dont cry much about current hard mode, i kinda like it sometimes when you do tank a crap ton of AV and still pull off a good flight it feels good to know you did it in 1.9 Active reps mate. We need those back. Powerful reps for crisis management. I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this. Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1357	Posted - 2014.11.25 00:53:00 - [53] - Quote True Adamance wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: Sir Snugglz wrote: Isa Lucifer wrote: Swarms are fine, in my opinion. AV vs Vehicules is good. Here's the thing... Swarms and forges got better.. but now everyone has one. The buff needed to come back in the day when nobody was fully AV. But the fact that they waited so long, there is guarenteed to be atleast one swarmer and forger in every match. they need to unerf our reps and/or hardeners, those were nerfed before AV was buffed in an attempt to remedy weaker AV vs ADS.. then they nerfed those and that plus the 1.9 SL was an overkill for many pilots.. tho i dont cry much about current hard mode, i kinda like it sometimes when you do tank a crap ton of AV and still pull off a good flight it feels good to know you did it in 1.9 Active reps mate. We need those back. Powerful reps for crisis management. yea when reps went passive is when i went gallente.. i still do decent running dual reps like 187 per cycle.. iirc i can have 187 rep with a 4100 armor on my grimness but only 3700 armor/150 rep on an incubus.. not sure why these fits are so unpopular.. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Ace Boone Capital Acquisitions LLC 410	Posted - 2014.11.25 01:08:00 - [54] - Quote ADS pilots have already been crippled enough. Unkillable installations, swarm buffs and nerfs to missiles are enough. Let them breathe, holy sh*t. Tanks are already ruined, let's not kill ADS too. Only loyal to the republic.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15016	Posted - 2014.11.25 02:43:00 - [55] - Quote Ace Boone wrote: ADS pilots have already been crippled enough. Unkillable installations, swarm buffs and nerfs to missiles are enough. Let them breathe, holy sht. Tanks are already ruined, let's not kill ADS too. Lol those Turret EHP buffs really ruined tanking for me a little bit. Takes 2x Missile Volleys to clear one, a full Rail Rifle Chambering, and don't even bother with blasters (takes far too long especially if they are captured) I literally spend too much time, if not the first 5-7 minutes of the game having to move around destroying turrets that infantry demanded made more survivable but don't even bother to protect....... All because even when unmanned they arbitrarily deny me access to much of the map, not that I can access much of it anymore thanks to the new crates Rattati put on line harvest and Manus peak. What should have been glaring weaknesses to a position were reduced to unassailable fortressed for vehicles because infantry couldn't ****** hack it. I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this. Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
ImIvan 52	Posted - 2014.11.25 03:15:00 - [56] - Quote ADS is fine, a Python with a hardener and shield extender can take on 2 swarmers easy. Why must you use prototypes?
Riptalis Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 99	Posted - 2014.11.25 17:57:00 - [57] - Quote ImIvan wrote: ADS is fine, a Python with a hardener and shield extender can take on 2 swarmers easy. 1 yes, but 2 is already a maybe and I wouldn't want to stay for long because anything else can take me out. Standard and MLT swarms I can take ADV and above I'm out. Would rather swoop in like a hawk and claw them up little by little. Python pilot
Henrietta Unknown Kirjuun Heiian 536	Posted - 2014.11.25 18:06:00 - [58] - Quote Running Incubus, and I can't get one shot off before diving away again because of one swarm. When running a Grimsnes, that sent me barreling into the ground. Half the cost of an ADS gone. Give the Magsex some love.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15038	Posted - 2014.11.25 19:40:00 - [59] - Quote Riptalis wrote: ImIvan wrote: ADS is fine, a Python with a hardener and shield extender can take on 2 swarmers easy. 1 yes, but 2 is already a maybe and I wouldn't want to stay for long because anything else can take me out. Standard and MLT swarms I can take ADV and above I'm out. Would rather swoop in like a hawk and claw them up little by little. Python fits do have roughly 5500EHP vs Explosive AV options which is very respectable....but yeah you won't be able to take 2 swarmers for any real duration of time. I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this. Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5451	Posted - 2014.11.25 20:14:00 - [60] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Are you all high? AV is in a good position vs vehicles at the moment. Quit expecting to OHK an ADS and tank with a militia swarm. Okay, SOMEONE in this thread is intelligent. I was starting to think this was some kind of moron circlejerk. I mean, have any of you saying that you can't fight Dropships actually tried flying one? Even with the reductions to Swarm turning speed, the high rate of fire and reload speed means that there can be enough Swarms in the air to kill me before I can even react. Apothecary Za'ki wrote: the only decent AV is minmando L5 and proto swarms with 2x dmg moduals.. but that dosnt help much when against high SP ADS pilots with full proto mods getting 80% resist to explosive with maybe 10 second downtime on that. Also, 80% resists with 10 second cooldown? Are you nuts? The Complex Hardener has a cooldown of 60 seconds, and with max skills you can only bring that down to 45 seconds. Also, there's a stacking penalty on shield hardeners, so running 2 at the same time does NOT give you 80% resistance. The Myron and Grimsnes are rendered unusable by current Swarm stats. I can get away from a single Swarm Launcher with a bit of armor damage on my Python, but with a Myron even if I turn on my afterburner I'll likely have 4-5 volleys in the air from just one guy before I can even get away. If it's two or more people, I might as well just jump out the moment they start shooting. Before anyone tries to talk ****, that's a Myron with 3500 shield HP. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector



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