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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
998
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Posted - 2014.11.24 09:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:but that dosnt help much when against high SP ADS pilots with full proto mods getting 80% resist to explosive with maybe 10 second downtime on that.
Would you please stop spouting nonsense.
This is how hardeners work. You do not add the percentages together, they apply to the remaining amount from the previous reduction, meaning even with infinite hardeners (and because of stacking penalties) you can never get immunity to damage.
Also bear in mind that Swarms are explosive (-20/+20) and so against hardened shields they should be ineffective... Yet unless you're double hardener they're still a big threat.
Blueprint For Murder wrote:I am a pilot as much as I am an AVer [...] I don't feel any knock back when I am hit by swarms
There are three possible reasons for the above statement:
- you are lying, or
- you are not a pilot like you think you are (ie, you don't actually fight in one), or
- you are playing an entirely different game altogether.
Swarms do have ridiculous impulse effects and it can be from one missile alone or combined by others in a volley, but even ADSs have difficulty in righting themselves when flipped unless flying high/out of reasonable engagement range. If you are not experiencing impulse effects from enemy Swarms, you need to mount up, go find some and actually experience the same game we are.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1003
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Posted - 2014.11.24 15:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Blueprint For Murder wrote:There is one possible reason you didn't think of m8:
- You freak out when engaged and crash
I've not crashed because of user error more than a couple of times since I became competent at flying. There have been plenty of times when swarms have flipped my ship by more than 90 degrees on a particular axis, causing me to lose control for too long/not have enough time to upright my ship.
Your statement that because you don't notice swarm impulse effects is as anecdotal as anyone's counter point: the difference is that every pilot I speak to - and that I know fly, and I have flown with many, still do - report crazy impulse effects.
Blueprint For Murder wrote:As for AZ she prolly didn't realize there was a hardener nerf. and that it is - 60% now I did not realize it myself until a week ago.
Well, Za'ki has been corrected before (see the link) and still spouts rubbish. The hardeners changed quite a long time ago and if you're going to try and advocate balance you should know enough about what you're talking about to be taken seriously. Even with 60% hardeners, double hardening would give 73.1% total resistance, which is a pretty far cry from the 95% Za'ki has repeatedly stated.
Blueprint For Murder wrote:Kallas your assumptions and arguments make you look like a fool this is just a discussion it is 0 sum there is no reason to be foul, maybe you should grow up.
My assumptions were somewhat exaggerated for effect, but not unfair to state. Your feelings on this matter are dichotomous compared to most pilots I've spoken to. And at no point did I disparage your character, only the representation of your experience, since it so wildly fails to match the 1.5 years of my experience and of the many hours flying my fellow pilots have accrued.
Flying an ADS is the role I enjoy the most: to me it represent some of the best elements of this game and without the dropships I would leave this pretty lacklustre lobby shooter. I fly, I gun, I act as a transport and I drop as a shock trooper: I love flying and will see to it that it remains a relevant part of the game. Previously I have advocated AV buffs (most notably during the 1.7 horror show) but I cannot abide by people who misrepresent something, whether deliberately or unintentionally.
That is my motivation: in answer to your OP question, I feel ADSs are rarer than any time after 1.6; because AV, or rather swarms, is so prolific and effective that the inability to fight back against one is removing the purpose of the ADS. NDSs are serving far better as taxis and while the NDS has slightly less firepower, the trade off for resilience is generally superior.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1013
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Posted - 2014.11.25 21:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:As for the 80% resists could Za'ki please break that down into maths and show us how he reached that conclusion. As far as I knowaby Shield vehicle using a hardeners has roughly 60% more EHP vs explosive AV options but not 80%
My previous post including a link to the actual maths for explosive profile, hardener and double hardener and how they interact with Swarm damage.
80% is a ridiculous figure, even for the old 60%, and Za'ki has repeatedly stated 95% for double hardening. I too would like to know how Za'ki (and anyone else spouting nonsense numbers) reaches these idiotic figures.
Double hardened vs swarms reduces total Swarm damage by 68.5%. A Wiyrkomi does 393.12 per volley under that before any damage mods or Commando bonus
With full damage potential (MinCom 5, 2x Complex Damage Mods) you get 311.46 per missile, or 1245.84 per volley (no reduction)
Vs shields: 996.67 per volley (20% reduction)
Vs one shield hardener: 747.52 per volley (52% total reduction: 40% reduction of the 80% left after the profile reduction)
Vs two shield hardeners: 490.36 per volley (68.5% total reduction: 34.4% reduction of the 48% left after the first hardener)
Happy maths everyone.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1014
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Posted - 2014.11.26 03:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Blueprint, your talk of invincibility in the face of not only one Swarmer, but multiple AV together is frankly ridiculous. I also pilot a Grimsnes with hardeners and I am far from invincible, even against a single Swarmer. Again, I seriously question the reality of your game time.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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