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Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 195	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:29:00 - [1] - Quote I would like to start a discussion about the tacnet directional arrow. It seems many people want it removed. I would like people to state why they think it should be removed and what doing so will hope to achieve. I've heard the buzzword "prefireing scouts" used repeatedly. I do not understand what this implies, someone please explain?
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 485	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:23:00 - [2] - Quote If Precision > Profile, no marker on TacNet If Precision <= Profile, circular marker on TacNet If Precision << Profile, directional marker on TacNet You like? I like. In addition to upcoming Falloff, of course.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 985	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:28:00 - [3] - Quote Arrow should be gone for sure. All it does is allow full on wallhacks. Knowing where the enemy is, that is fine, but knowing their facing is such a ridiculously enormous advantage: by removing the facing arrow, Scouts would have to be so much more cautious and anyone using the Tac-Net to locate enemies wouldn't instantly know that they can just charge in because the enemy is facing the other way. Anything that helps cut down on Scouts murdering everything because of their insane EWar advantages is a good thing. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4981	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:35:00 - [4] - Quote The directional arrow is needed for Scouts who are trying to be Scouts (as opposed to Brick Tanked Scouts trying to be Logi or Assault), because they need to know when the other guy is looking the other way so they can sneak up behind them, because a proper scouts dies really fast if someone sees them. On top of the Directional Arrows, I feel that there should be an indication of Frame size, so that Assault/Logi have an easier time avoiding HMG Sentinels, or be able to engage them in a more tactical manner. (Granted, they may end up avoiding CommandoGÇÖs as well, but that does not really heart the medium frame suits too much and might be good for the Commando.) Also, Medium Frame suits need more passive scan range so that Sentinels canGÇÖt sneak up behind them. (I say this as a dedicated HMG Sentinel since 1.3.) Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4981	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:37:00 - [5] - Quote What about only showing the arrow in the inner 25% rang circle? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Lonewolf Heavy Chaotic Company 155	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:41:00 - [6] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: What about only showing the arrow in the inner 25% rang circle? Totally agree, this would be perfect seeing it will allow for people who are scanned at distance to still have the advantage of enemies not knowing the direction they are facing (Unless direct visual contact obviously) while scouts will still be able to sneak around and time their movements when within x (Don't know exact range of inner 25% circle) distance of enemies. Sentinel/Commando
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 488	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:42:00 - [7] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: What about only showing the arrow in the inner 25% rang circle? I like it, Fox. Seems as though this would be easy to implement as well. Or easier, at least, than wiring conditionals like those found in Post #2.
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 196	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:47:00 - [8] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: The directional arrow is needed for Scouts who are trying to be Scouts (as opposed to Brick Tanked Scouts trying to be Logi or Assault), because they need to know when the other guy is looking the other way so they can sneak up behind them, because a proper scouts dies really fast if someone sees them. On top of the Directional Arrows, I feel that there should be an indication of Frame size, so that Assault/Logi have an easier time avoiding HMG Sentinels, or be able to engage them in a more tactical manner. (Granted, they may end up avoiding CommandoGÇÖs as well, but that does not really heart the medium frame suits too much and might be good for the Commando.) Also, Medium Frame suits need more passive scan range so that Sentinels canGÇÖt sneak up behind them. (I say this as a dedicated HMG Sentinel since 1.3.) This is the best summary of how I feel about the situation, top to bottom. Thank you Fox, this +1.
Lonewolf Heavy Chaotic Company 156	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:51:00 - [9] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: The directional arrow is needed for Scouts who are trying to be Scouts (as opposed to Brick Tanked Scouts trying to be Logi or Assault), because they need to know when the other guy is looking the other way so they can sneak up behind them, because a proper scouts dies really fast if someone sees them. On top of the Directional Arrows, I feel that there should be an indication of Frame size, so that Assault/Logi have an easier time avoiding HMG Sentinels, or be able to engage them in a more tactical manner. (Granted, they may end up avoiding CommandoGÇÖs as well, but that does not really heart the medium frame suits too much and might be good for the Commando.) Also, Medium Frame suits need more passive scan range so that Sentinels canGÇÖt sneak up behind them. (I say this as a dedicated HMG Sentinel since 1.3.) This is the best summary of how I feel about the situation, top to bottom. Thank you Fox, this +1. As nice as that would be, That shouldn't happen. All the scanner is picking up is IFF signals, not the physical suit itself. However by seeing the direction an IFF is moving you can see its direction its facing, but it shouldn't be able to tell what exactly you are up against. Sentinel/Commando
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 198	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:53:00 - [10] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Arrow should be gone for sure. All it does is allow full on wallhacks. Knowing where the enemy is, that is fine, but knowing their facing is such a ridiculously enormous advantage: by removing the facing arrow, Scouts would have to be so much more cautious and anyone using the Tac-Net to locate enemies wouldn't instantly know that they can just charge in because the enemy is facing the other way. Anything that helps cut down on Scouts murdering everything because of their insane EWar advantages is a good thing. I also feel, as a scout, that scouts ewar needs to be brought down and medium/heavy frames need to be brough to the ewar playing field. I am all for proper complex ewar competition between all mercs. With the upcoming changes to the ewar system coupled with buffs to precision for all mediums and heavies, nerfs to scout precision and profile, I believe the source of the problem is finally being attacked. Removing the directional arrow only affects the scouts that have been playing the intended role. Slayer light assault scouts would be completely unimpeded by the arrow as they will be attacking at optimal distance anyway. The scout that does not even want to engage with the enemy, but simply lay low, moving from cover to cover, over watching and defending, will be severely crippled by the removal of directional arrow on tacnet.

Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 198	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:54:00 - [11] - Quote Lonewolf Heavy wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: The directional arrow is needed for Scouts who are trying to be Scouts (as opposed to Brick Tanked Scouts trying to be Logi or Assault), because they need to know when the other guy is looking the other way so they can sneak up behind them, because a proper scouts dies really fast if someone sees them. On top of the Directional Arrows, I feel that there should be an indication of Frame size, so that Assault/Logi have an easier time avoiding HMG Sentinels, or be able to engage them in a more tactical manner. (Granted, they may end up avoiding CommandoGÇÖs as well, but that does not really heart the medium frame suits too much and might be good for the Commando.) Also, Medium Frame suits need more passive scan range so that Sentinels canGÇÖt sneak up behind them. (I say this as a dedicated HMG Sentinel since 1.3.) This is the best summary of how I feel about the situation, top to bottom. Thank you Fox, this +1. As nice as that would be, That shouldn't happen. All the scanner is picking up is IFF signals, not the physical suit itself. However by seeing the direction an IFF is moving you can see its direction its facing, but it shouldn't be able to tell what exactly you are up against. You make a very good point, Lonewolf.
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 198	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:56:00 - [12] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Not my idea: If Precision > Profile, no marker on TacNet If Precision <= Profile, circular marker on TacNet If Precision << Profile, directional marker on TacNet You like? I like. (In addition to upcoming Falloff, of course.) Anything that adds to the dynamics of it without outright removal is good for me. I like this idea as well !
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4988	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:13:00 - [13] - Quote Lonewolf Heavy wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: The directional arrow is needed for Scouts who are trying to be Scouts (as opposed to Brick Tanked Scouts trying to be Logi or Assault), because they need to know when the other guy is looking the other way so they can sneak up behind them, because a proper scouts dies really fast if someone sees them. On top of the Directional Arrows, I feel that there should be an indication of Frame size, so that Assault/Logi have an easier time avoiding HMG Sentinels, or be able to engage them in a more tactical manner. (Granted, they may end up avoiding CommandoGÇÖs as well, but that does not really heart the medium frame suits too much and might be good for the Commando.) Also, Medium Frame suits need more passive scan range so that Sentinels canGÇÖt sneak up behind them. (I say this as a dedicated HMG Sentinel since 1.3.) This is the best summary of how I feel about the situation, top to bottom. Thank you Fox, this +1. As nice as that would be, That shouldn't happen. All the scanner is picking up is IFF signals, not the physical suit itself. However by seeing the direction an IFF is moving you can see its direction its facing, but it shouldn't be able to tell what exactly you are up against. A Heavy suit is using a lot more power in its servos to move all that additional weight. This would create more electronic and acoustic noise. This is why the Heavy has such a high profile. So, instead of indicating Frame Size, indicate Profile instead. You would be able to identify Heavies just fine, unless they equipped DampenersGÇª Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Lonewolf Heavy Chaotic Company 158	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:16:00 - [14] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: The directional arrow is needed for Scouts who are trying to be Scouts (as opposed to Brick Tanked Scouts trying to be Logi or Assault), because they need to know when the other guy is looking the other way so they can sneak up behind them, because a proper scouts dies really fast if someone sees them. On top of the Directional Arrows, I feel that there should be an indication of Frame size, so that Assault/Logi have an easier time avoiding HMG Sentinels, or be able to engage them in a more tactical manner. (Granted, they may end up avoiding CommandoGÇÖs as well, but that does not really heart the medium frame suits too much and might be good for the Commando.) Also, Medium Frame suits need more passive scan range so that Sentinels canGÇÖt sneak up behind them. (I say this as a dedicated HMG Sentinel since 1.3.) This is the best summary of how I feel about the situation, top to bottom. Thank you Fox, this +1. As nice as that would be, That shouldn't happen. All the scanner is picking up is IFF signals, not the physical suit itself. However by seeing the direction an IFF is moving you can see its direction its facing, but it shouldn't be able to tell what exactly you are up against. A Heavy suit is using a lot more power in its servos to move all that additional weight. This would create more electronic and acoustic noise. This is why the Heavy has such a high profile. So, instead of indicating Frame Size, indicate Profile instead. You would be able to identify Heavies just fine, unless they equipped DampenersGÇª The new scan falloff actually will be doing this. Seeing as you progress into the scan circles, It will be able to pick up lower profile enemies. so Technically we will be able to ID profile level of enemies that way. Sentinel/Commando
ROMULUS H3X research lab 221	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:17:00 - [15] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Arrow should be gone for sure. All it does is allow full on wallhacks. Knowing where the enemy is, that is fine, but knowing their facing is such a ridiculously enormous advantage: by removing the facing arrow, Scouts would have to be so much more cautious and anyone using the Tac-Net to locate enemies wouldn't instantly know that they can just charge in because the enemy is facing the other way. Anything that helps cut down on Scouts murdering everything because of their insane EWar advantages is a good thing. This guy hit it right on the head, nothing else needs to be said in order to convice the community that permanent wall hax break any game... the fact that scouts were allowed to run around for this long with a broken scan mechanic is attrocious.. All of you crutch-players are about to lose your crutch... going to be funny watching you all fall on your faces. FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 198	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:18:00 - [16] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Arrow should be gone for sure. All it does is allow full on wallhacks. Knowing where the enemy is, that is fine, but knowing their facing is such a ridiculously enormous advantage: by removing the facing arrow, Scouts would have to be so much more cautious and anyone using the Tac-Net to locate enemies wouldn't instantly know that they can just charge in because the enemy is facing the other way. Anything that helps cut down on Scouts murdering everything because of their insane EWar advantages is a good thing. This guy hit it right on the head, nothing else needs to be said in order to convice the community that permanent wall hax break any game... the fact that scouts were allowed to run around for this long with a broken scan mechanic is attrocious.. All of you crutch-players are about to lose your crutch... going to be funny watching you all fall on your faces. Explain?
Lonewolf Heavy Chaotic Company 159	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:22:00 - [17] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Arrow should be gone for sure. All it does is allow full on wallhacks. Knowing where the enemy is, that is fine, but knowing their facing is such a ridiculously enormous advantage: by removing the facing arrow, Scouts would have to be so much more cautious and anyone using the Tac-Net to locate enemies wouldn't instantly know that they can just charge in because the enemy is facing the other way. Anything that helps cut down on Scouts murdering everything because of their insane EWar advantages is a good thing. This guy hit it right on the head, nothing else needs to be said in order to convice the community that permanent wall hax break any game... the fact that scouts were allowed to run around for this long with a broken scan mechanic is attrocious.. All of you crutch-players are about to lose your crutch... going to be funny watching you all fall on your faces. Got to love when someone can't read past the 3rd post of a thread Sentinel/Commando
ROMULUS H3X research lab 221	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:30:00 - [18] - Quote Lonewolf Heavy wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Arrow should be gone for sure. All it does is allow full on wallhacks. Knowing where the enemy is, that is fine, but knowing their facing is such a ridiculously enormous advantage: by removing the facing arrow, Scouts would have to be so much more cautious and anyone using the Tac-Net to locate enemies wouldn't instantly know that they can just charge in because the enemy is facing the other way. Anything that helps cut down on Scouts murdering everything because of their insane EWar advantages is a good thing. This guy hit it right on the head, nothing else needs to be said in order to convice the community that permanent wall hax break any game... the fact that scouts were allowed to run around for this long with a broken scan mechanic is attrocious.. All of you crutch-players are about to lose your crutch... going to be funny watching you all fall on your faces. Got to love when someone can't read past the 3rd post of a thread I sure did.... what makes you think that? Here I will respond to the rest of the garbage if you want.. FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4991	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:30:00 - [19] - Quote Lonewolf Heavy wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: A Heavy suit is using a lot more power in its servos to move all that additional weight. This would create more electronic and acoustic noise. This is why the Heavy has such a high profile. So, instead of indicating Frame Size, indicate Profile instead. You would be able to identify Heavies just fine, unless they equipped DampenersGÇª The new scan falloff actually will be doing this. Seeing as you progress into the scan circles, It will be able to pick up lower profile enemies. so Technically we will be able to ID profile level of enemies that way. To an extent maybe. I know in the Open Beta when I ran Assault, my Precision was such that any Red Dot on my Radar was probably a Sentinel, so I was able to avoid them much of the time. I am not sure if the concentric circle thing will be enough to create this effect, particularly with shared passive scan as you are dealing with your circles and everyone else's circles as well. I still think that having the size of the dot be proportional to the Profile of the suit detected would display that information better. Besides, it would give Sentinels a reason to equip Dampeners, to look like Assault suits on the radar map. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
ROMULUS H3X research lab 221	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:36:00 - [20] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: The directional arrow is needed for Scouts who are trying to be Scouts (as opposed to Brick Tanked Scouts trying to be Logi or Assault), because they need to know when the other guy is looking the other way so they can sneak up behind them, because a proper scouts dies really fast if someone sees them. On top of the Directional Arrows, I feel that there should be an indication of Frame size, so that Assault/Logi have an easier time avoiding HMG Sentinels, or be able to engage them in a more tactical manner. (Granted, they may end up avoiding CommandoGÇÖs as well, but that does not really heart the medium frame suits too much and might be good for the Commando.) Also, Medium Frame suits need more passive scan range so that Sentinels canGÇÖt sneak up behind them. (I say this as a dedicated HMG Sentinel since 1.3.) Sad part is, no scouts try to be scouts. They try to be assaults. Knowing where someone is is far more than enough data to maneuver around them especially with a cloak and/or dampening. Sure you can say let's keep the arrow for the smaller circle for close engagements... yet if you are that close would the directional arrow even matter.... maybe... yet they have had this crutch for too long getting 1,000's of un-deserved kills... so i say kick out their crutch and let them faceplant on their own RE. FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!

ROMULUS H3X research lab 221	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:42:00 - [21] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Arrow should be gone for sure. All it does is allow full on wallhacks. Knowing where the enemy is, that is fine, but knowing their facing is such a ridiculously enormous advantage: by removing the facing arrow, Scouts would have to be so much more cautious and anyone using the Tac-Net to locate enemies wouldn't instantly know that they can just charge in because the enemy is facing the other way. Anything that helps cut down on Scouts murdering everything because of their insane EWar advantages is a good thing. This guy hit it right on the head, nothing else needs to be said in order to convice the community that permanent wall hax break any game... the fact that scouts were allowed to run around for this long with a broken scan mechanic is attrocious.. All of you crutch-players are about to lose your crutch... going to be funny watching you all fall on your faces. Explain? Imagine playing PAC-MAN with the ghosts blue all the time. Now imagine they don't run scared because they don't see you... EZ-MODE right? That's basically how scouts play DUST 514. FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 201	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:48:00 - [22] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: Imagine playing PAC-MAN with the ghosts blue all the time. Now imagine they don't run scared because they don't see you... EZ-MODE right? That's basically how scouts play DUST 514. You are talking about scouts as a general thing. If scouts are the problem, they should be removed outright from the game. You are not being constructive. If your problem is brick tanked combat rifle scouts, that's one thing. If your problem is militia fit remote explosive spam that's another thing. If your problem is scout absolute e-war advantage, that's another thing as well. NONE of these have to do with the directional arrow, they are all problems that need to be addressed. I personally want all those things fixed. Fortunately, absolute ewar will be a thing of the past very soon with the new system coming up. It boils down to what scouts SHOULD be capable of doing, and how to encourage that. This does the opposite. If I can't sneak I will stack HP.
Lonewolf Heavy Chaotic Company 159	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:48:00 - [23] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: A Heavy suit is using a lot more power in its servos to move all that additional weight. This would create more electronic and acoustic noise. This is why the Heavy has such a high profile. So, instead of indicating Frame Size, indicate Profile instead. You would be able to identify Heavies just fine, unless they equipped DampenersGÇª The new scan falloff actually will be doing this. Seeing as you progress into the scan circles, It will be able to pick up lower profile enemies. so Technically we will be able to ID profile level of enemies that way. To an extent maybe. I know in the Open Beta when I ran Assault, my Precision was such that any Red Dot on my Radar was probably a Sentinel, so I was able to avoid them much of the time. I am not sure if the concentric circle thing will be enough to create this effect, particularly with shared passive scan as you are dealing with your circles and everyone else's circles as well. I still think that having the size of the dot be proportional to the Profile of the suit detected would display that information better. Besides, it would give Sentinels a reason to equip Dampeners, to look like Assault suits on the radar map. True, That Idea probably could work but would take a bit of work on CCP's part to do. Also now that you've gone into a little more detail about your idea on how to show the profile, that makes sense and would be interesting and a nice way to play with Ewarfare Sentinel/Commando
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 201	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:51:00 - [24] - Quote 3 minute video of a scout (me) actually trying to be a scout. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whyzdgVSRv0 You can either favor and encourage this playstyle (~250 HP), OR you can hurt this playstyle. Eitherway, however, the "light assault" is unaffected by the directional arrow.
Lonewolf Heavy Chaotic Company 159	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:51:00 - [25] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Arrow should be gone for sure. All it does is allow full on wallhacks. Knowing where the enemy is, that is fine, but knowing their facing is such a ridiculously enormous advantage: by removing the facing arrow, Scouts would have to be so much more cautious and anyone using the Tac-Net to locate enemies wouldn't instantly know that they can just charge in because the enemy is facing the other way. Anything that helps cut down on Scouts murdering everything because of their insane EWar advantages is a good thing. This guy hit it right on the head, nothing else needs to be said in order to convice the community that permanent wall hax break any game... the fact that scouts were allowed to run around for this long with a broken scan mechanic is attrocious.. All of you crutch-players are about to lose your crutch... going to be funny watching you all fall on your faces. Explain? Imagine playing PAC-MAN with the ghosts blue all the time. Now imagine they don't run scared because they don't see you... EZ-MODE right? That's basically how scouts play DUST 514. I feel like this is more of a personal problem than a problem involving the directional arrow. Sentinel/Commando
ROMULUS H3X research lab 221	Posted - 2014.11.20 20:02:00 - [26] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Imagine playing PAC-MAN with the ghosts blue all the time. Now imagine they don't run scared because they don't see you... EZ-MODE right? That's basically how scouts play DUST 514. You are talking about scouts as a general thing. If scouts are the problem, they should be removed outright from the game. You are not being constructive. If your problem is brick tanked combat rifle scouts, that's one thing. If your problem is militia fit remote explosive spam that's another thing. If your problem is scout absolute e-war advantage, that's another thing as well. NONE of these have to do with the directional arrow, they are all problems that need to be addressed. I personally want all those things fixed. Fortunately, absolute ewar will be a thing of the past very soon with the new system coming up. It boils down to what scouts SHOULD be capable of doing, and how to encourage that. This does the opposite. If I can't sneak I will stack HP. Removing the dirrectional arrow gets rid of their attack role. Making them far less likely to engage in combat versus ANY suit they cross. They would have to ponder EACH engagement rather than brazenly running up into any compound and killing EVERYONE no-sweat.. INstead their passive scan can pick up the targets for their squads to take out the enemy and jump an enemy from behind because his squaddie has him distracted. FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 202	Posted - 2014.11.20 20:10:00 - [27] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: Removing the dirrectional arrow gets rid of their attack role. [...] My argument is that the directional arrow is an important defensive tool. I am not refuting it's use for attack, simply that it is important for defense. I would MUCH RATHER see the attack power of the scout come down then have what little defense true scouts have left be reduced.
ROMULUS H3X research lab 221	Posted - 2014.11.20 20:26:00 - [28] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Removing the dirrectional arrow gets rid of their attack role. [...] My argument is that the directional arrow is an important defensive tool. I am not refuting it's use for attack, simply that it is important for defense. I would MUCH RATHER see the attack power of the scout come down then have what little defense true scouts have left be reduced. Well for defense, a scout is supposed to try and be invisible to enemy scans. Speed also helps a scouts defense... Their passive scans which gives off every nearby enemies location is also for defense..... The fact that scouts can stack so much armor is great for their defense too.... 1 armor plate would double a scouts base armor, might as well let them stack 3 or 4 right? **** it lets put 5 armor plates! Yes... scouts have LITTLE defense... FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
ROMULUS H3X research lab 221	Posted - 2014.11.20 20:35:00 - [29] - Quote Lonewolf Heavy wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Arrow should be gone for sure. All it does is allow full on wallhacks. Knowing where the enemy is, that is fine, but knowing their facing is such a ridiculously enormous advantage: by removing the facing arrow, Scouts would have to be so much more cautious and anyone using the Tac-Net to locate enemies wouldn't instantly know that they can just charge in because the enemy is facing the other way. Anything that helps cut down on Scouts murdering everything because of their insane EWar advantages is a good thing. This guy hit it right on the head, nothing else needs to be said in order to convice the community that permanent wall hax break any game... the fact that scouts were allowed to run around for this long with a broken scan mechanic is attrocious.. All of you crutch-players are about to lose your crutch... going to be funny watching you all fall on your faces. Explain? Imagine playing PAC-MAN with the ghosts blue all the time. Now imagine they don't run scared because they don't see you... EZ-MODE right? That's basically how scouts play DUST 514. I feel like this is more of a personal problem than a problem involving the directional arrow. I feel like i am your personal problem... rather than a problem involving you and your tampon. FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 204	Posted - 2014.11.21 17:54:00 - [30] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Removing the dirrectional arrow gets rid of their attack role. [...] My argument is that the directional arrow is an important defensive tool. I am not refuting it's use for attack, simply that it is important for defense. I would MUCH RATHER see the attack power of the scout come down then have what little defense true scouts have left be reduced. Well for defense, a scout is supposed to try and be invisible to enemy scans. Speed also helps a scouts defense... Their passive scans which gives off every nearby enemies location is also for defense..... The fact that scouts can stack so much armor is great for their defense too.... 1 armor plate would double a scouts base armor, might as well let them stack 3 or 4 right? **** it lets put 5 armor plates! Yes... scouts have LITTLE defense... Wait... You are encouraging the idea that scouts should stack HP modules for defense instead of low EHP + subterfuge?? I think I am now understanding why we do not agree.

Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 204	Posted - 2014.11.21 17:59:00 - [31] - Quote Back on topic, I want this thread to stay about the directional arrow, and not devolve into a scout thread. I have a very good thread about nerfing scouts here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=180634&find=unread Feel free to add your comments in there, Romulus.
ROMULUS H3X research lab 223	Posted - 2014.11.22 03:40:00 - [32] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Removing the dirrectional arrow gets rid of their attack role. [...] My argument is that the directional arrow is an important defensive tool. I am not refuting it's use for attack, simply that it is important for defense. I would MUCH RATHER see the attack power of the scout come down then have what little defense true scouts have left be reduced. Well for defense, a scout is supposed to try and be invisible to enemy scans. Speed also helps a scouts defense... Their passive scans which gives off every nearby enemies location is also for defense..... The fact that scouts can stack so much armor is great for their defense too.... 1 armor plate would double a scouts base armor, might as well let them stack 3 or 4 right? **** it lets put 5 armor plates! Yes... scouts have LITTLE defense... Wait... You are encouraging the idea that scouts should stack HP modules for defense instead of low EHP + subterfuge?? I think I am now understanding why we do not agree. Hmmm... Where does it say that I am encouraging HP stacking on scouts..? I am just saying how it is in it's current state. In fact, the only scout suit I own doesn't even have a single HP module on it, All myofibers, kincats, hacking module or a dampener when needed. What I see, is we both agree on what a scout SHOULD be...So lets agree to disagree on the dirrectional arrow for now.. Me personally I don't need it.... never needed it in any video game i played before and sure as hell don't want that crutch now. Anyways, seeing how everyone in this thread likes to flip what I say if it dissagrees with theirs.... I'll take my leave... FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2062	Posted - 2014.11.22 03:42:00 - [33] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Not my idea: If Precision > Profile, no marker on TacNet If Precision <= Profile, circular marker on TacNet If Precision << Profile, directional marker on TacNet You like? I like. (In addition to upcoming Falloff, of course.) sounds like a good idea..could also be some sort of nerf to scouts op-ness meaning they will need to fit for ewar just to be hidden.. which is how it should be. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 552	Posted - 2014.11.22 03:50:00 - [34] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: sounds like a good idea..could also be some sort of nerf to scouts op-ness meaning they will need to fit for ewar just to be hidden.. which is how it should be. There's a good chance Scout bonuses will be rewired to module efficacy. The thinking behind the progression was to further incentivize EWAR module usage among non Scouts. Pairs well with the upcoming Falloff design as well as any future buffs to MedFrame EWAR.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2063	Posted - 2014.11.22 03:55:00 - [35] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: sounds like a good idea..could also be some sort of nerf to scouts op-ness meaning they will need to fit for ewar just to be hidden.. which is how it should be. There's a good chance Scout bonuses will be rewired to module efficacy. The thinking behind the progression was to further incentivize EWAR module usage among non Scouts. Pairs well with the upcoming Falloff design as well as any future buffs to MedFrame EWAR. i think myself and dozens of others proposed that idea but the scout FOTM whined their asses off against it. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 425	Posted - 2014.11.22 04:02:00 - [36] - Quote As scout bait, someone who never runs scout and gets killed by scout constantly I will say this: I don't care if scouts know where I am. I don't care if they can sneak up on me. It's my job to be situationally aware. Yes I will die super fast to a shotgun or nova knife sometimes and there will be nothing I can do about it. I only care about scouts running strait at me and bullets not registering damage. I only care about scouts sidestepping back and forth and beating a heavier suit toe to toe. Basically I care about broken hit detection. Let scouts sneak, and you know what? If they stack enough precision enhancers (that better be a lot...) let them see which way I am facing.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2063	Posted - 2014.11.22 04:33:00 - [37] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: As scout bait, someone who never runs scout and gets killed by scout constantly I will say this: I don't care if scouts know where I am. I don't care if they can sneak up on me. It's my job to be situationally aware. Yes I will die super fast to a shotgun or nova knife sometimes and there will be nothing I can do about it. I only care about scouts running strait at me and bullets not registering damage. I only care about scouts sidestepping back and forth and beating a heavier suit toe to toe. Basically I care about broken hit detection. Let scouts sneak, and you know what? If they stack enough precision enhancers (that better be a lot...) let them see which way I am facing. well tbh i dont mind NKs as it takes less then 3 meters and usually from behind to get a kill.. where as shotgun is OHK or 2 shot kill up to 20m or something like that [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 568	Posted - 2014.11.22 05:25:00 - [38] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: where as shotgun is OHK or 2 shot kill up to 20m or something like that Why even try to contribute?
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2550	Posted - 2014.11.22 12:21:00 - [39] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: where as shotgun is OHK or 2 shot kill up to 20m or something like that Who told you this? 20 meters! That thing loses most of its damage past 6-10 meters lmao. I wish shotguns had 20meters, I would go back to using them again for the lols! "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 576	Posted - 2014.11.22 15:09:00 - [40] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: where as shotgun is OHK or 2 shot kill up to 20m or something like that Who told you this? 20 meters! That thing loses most of its damage past 6-10 meters lmao. ^ Also my experience. Wonder where he's getting 20 meters from?

Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 441	Posted - 2014.11.22 20:29:00 - [41] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Arrow should be gone for sure. All it does is allow full on wallhacks. Knowing where the enemy is, that is fine, but knowing their facing is such a ridiculously enormous advantage: by removing the facing arrow, Scouts would have to be so much more cautious and anyone using the Tac-Net to locate enemies wouldn't instantly know that they can just charge in because the enemy is facing the other way. Anything that helps cut down on Scouts murdering everything because of their insane EWar advantages is a good thing. This guy hit it right on the head, nothing else needs to be said in order to convice the community that permanent wall hax break any game... the fact that scouts were allowed to run around for this long with a broken scan mechanic is attrocious.. All of you crutch-players are about to lose your crutch... going to be funny watching you all fall on your faces. Explain? Imagine playing PAC-MAN with the ghosts blue all the time. Now imagine they don't run scared because they don't see you... EZ-MODE right? That's basically how scouts play DUST 514. Massage to all of you: ewar solo-scouts is not a problem, squad tacnet sharing is problem. Taking OFF that directions arrows is giant nerf to 'true scouts' that are stealthy, very low on armor, cloaked, and they capability are limited. Taking OFF directions arrows for fully tanked amarr sentinels that are constantly repaired by bests mm logistics, that all shares same tacnet with amarr scout(fitted to do just that) is a narrow nerf, tiny one.. If you are seriously thinking that ewar changes will bring changes.. well you are right, instead of damped scouts with 250hp you will have to encounter damped assaults with 2x more hp, better L S G weapons.. because you wished so . Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 430	Posted - 2014.11.25 00:15:00 - [42] - Quote Yes Sylwester, but said assaults will not be able to dodge through as many bullets (barring Min Assault. It's broken too.) In my experience the shotgun does pretty much full damage at up to 10. from 11 on not only do you get a damage drop (its actually not so bad from 11-15) but you get (more importantly) enough spread for more of the shot to hit.
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 228	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:08:00 - [43] - Quote The tacnet directional arrow is getting removed in 1.10. I feel as though little community feedback was taken into account with this decision and want to see what others think about it. Thoughts? Who do you think will be most affected by this change and who will be affected the least?
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 882	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:11:00 - [44] - Quote Long Term - Good for the game. Short Term - Very bad for Heavy balance.
ROMULUS H3X research lab 245	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:36:00 - [45] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Arrow should be gone for sure. All it does is allow full on wallhacks. Knowing where the enemy is, that is fine, but knowing their facing is such a ridiculously enormous advantage: by removing the facing arrow, Scouts would have to be so much more cautious and anyone using the Tac-Net to locate enemies wouldn't instantly know that they can just charge in because the enemy is facing the other way. Anything that helps cut down on Scouts murdering everything because of their insane EWar advantages is a good thing. This guy hit it right on the head, nothing else needs to be said in order to convice the community that permanent wall hax break any game... the fact that scouts were allowed to run around for this long with a broken scan mechanic is attrocious.. All of you crutch-players are about to lose your crutch... going to be funny watching you all fall on your faces. Explain? Imagine playing PAC-MAN with the ghosts blue all the time. Now imagine they don't run scared because they don't see you... EZ-MODE right? That's basically how scouts play DUST 514. Massage to all of you: ewar solo-scouts is not a problem, squad tacnet sharing is problem. Taking OFF that directions arrows is giant nerf to 'true scouts' that are stealthy, very low on armor, cloaked, and they capability are limited. Taking OFF directions arrows for fully tanked amarr sentinels that are constantly repaired by bests mm logistics, that all shares same tacnet with amarr scout(fitted to do just that) is a narrow nerf, tiny one.. If you are seriously thinking that ewar changes will bring changes.. well you are right, instead of damped scouts with 250hp you will have to encounter damped assaults with 2x more hp, better L S G weapons.. because you wished so . Tacnet dirrectional arrows are not nesessary to be a "true-scout". If you truly think that the only thing going good for scouts at the moment is the dirrecional arrows, you are either lying or you don't play DUST 514. LOL at the dampened scouts with 250hp, more like 700hp and still dampened while having wall hacks. I would rather fight 15 assaults on the other team than 15 scouts on the other teams, ANY DAY Nice try on making a valid point for the crutch dirrectional arrows, but you fell a bit short of making any real sense. FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 228	Posted - 2014.12.02 20:09:00 - [46] - Quote Romulus, who do you think will be most affected by the directional arrow removal, and who do you think will be least affected? Also wall hacks are still present. Though the directional arrow is gone, unfortunately there are still red dots showing up on tacnet and chevrons appearing through walls on HUD.
ROMULUS H3X research lab 245	Posted - 2014.12.02 20:31:00 - [47] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Romulus, who do you think will be most affected by the directional arrow removal, and who do you think will be least affected? Also wall hacks are still present. Though the directional arrow is gone, unfortunately there are still red dots showing up on tacnet and chevrons appearing through walls on HUD. God, are you really this hard headed? What I meant by the wall hacks = directional arrows.... No need to make stupid comments as if I thought the damn radar was dissapearing off the HUD... Hmmmm, did you really just ask me who would be most affected by the arrows removal? Let me skip the most obvious answers because i hate repeating myself to nimrods, plain and simple we all benefit. Every last one of us will benefit from removing these crutch arrows. I say crutch because without them we will have to learn REAL skills and REAL espionage instead of it being handed to you on a silver platter. Scouts might have to actually WORK to do their job! FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1388	Posted - 2014.12.03 00:30:00 - [48] - Quote I know it's unrelated but what's falloff? Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 229	Posted - 2014.12.03 17:04:00 - [49] - Quote Zindorak wrote: I know it's unrelated but what's falloff? Falloff is the concept that something gets weaker as it you get further and further away from it's source. With weapons it's loss of damage the further away you are. With scanning it's losing scanning precision on objects that are further away. Hope that answers your question !
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 234	Posted - 2014.12.03 19:59:00 - [50] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: God, are you really this hard headed? What I meant by the wall hacks = directional arrows.... No need to make stupid comments as if I thought the damn radar was dissapearing off the HUD... Hmmmm, did you really just ask me who would be most affected by the arrows removal? Let me skip the most obvious answers because i hate repeating myself to nimrods, plain and simple we all benefit. Every last one of us will benefit from removing these crutch arrows. I say crutch because without them we will have to learn REAL skills and REAL espionage instead of it being handed to you on a silver platter. Scouts might have to actually WORK to do their job! This is why we can't have nice things. :3

Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 8478	Posted - 2014.12.03 20:42:00 - [51] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: I would like to start a discussion about the tacnet directional arrow. It seems many people want it removed. I would like people to state why they think it should be removed and what doing so will hope to achieve. I've heard the buzzword "prefireing scouts" used repeatedly. I do not understand what this implies, someone please explain? Prefiring is an age old FPS tactic. It involves using your radar (Or some indication system) to start firing at people the moment its possible to do so. You know where the target is through cover. You strafe out of cover and "Prefire" meaning that your first 3 or 4 bullets are hitting the wall and doing nothing. However, the MOMENT you clear cover, you are putting shots directly on target. This is a huge advantage when starting an engagement. The directional arrow adds another advantage to it. Since you know where the target is FACING at all times, you can repeatedly just engage him when he turns his back. You never have to walk into fire. Annoying as heck. How will this change with the arrow removed? It means you are going to have to be a LOT more analytical with how you read the radar. For example, don't just look at the dots, notice where they are moving. People typically walk in the direction they are facing, and you can use that determine when to engage. Until some sneaky dude decides to play you like a fiddle, and intentionally walk backwards if he knows you're around It also means that targets standing still will be a gamble. This is where map awareness starts to pay off. If you know what the cover is around him, and where enemies will typically be moving, you can GUESS where he's facing. Nobody is typically going to be standing and looking into a corner. They would have their back to the wall and be looking out. Now, you can still take care of this with a good cooked grenade though, so don't be afraid to engage if you have the upper hand. In short: Be tactical, be analytical. THINK before you act. As for what I think about the arrow: I'm okay with it being removed. It has a lot of perks to it with almost zero drawbacks right now. Hopefully these changes will make eWAR more of a "style" of play that favors those who know how to read and interpret the data they are being sent (quickly and effectively), rather than a style of play that dumbs down engagements due to how much data is simplified for you. Just my take on it. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6323	Posted - 2014.12.03 20:42:00 - [52] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Imagine playing PAC-MAN with the ghosts blue all the time. Now imagine they don't run scared because they don't see you... EZ-MODE right? That's basically how scouts play DUST 514. You are talking about scouts as a general thing. If scouts are the problem, they should be removed outright from the game. You are not being constructive. If your problem is brick tanked combat rifle scouts, that's one thing. If your problem is militia fit remote explosive spam that's another thing. If your problem is scout absolute e-war advantage, that's another thing as well. NONE of these have to do with the directional arrow, they are all problems that need to be addressed. I personally want all those things fixed. Fortunately, absolute ewar will be a thing of the past very soon with the new system coming up. It boils down to what scouts SHOULD be capable of doing, and how to encourage that. This does the opposite. If I can't sneak I will stack HP. I like this guy. As for the original issue, I have big problems with massively tanked Sentinels now having an additional advantage. Even knowing which way they are facing doesn't give us an "win" button because their HP is so insane. I don't mind not having a directional arrow for a dampened Assault that still couldn't beat our scans, or an assault that isn't completely decked with HP. I think EWAR should be the opposite end of a scale of HP, and directional arrows could be a portion of that continuum. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6323	Posted - 2014.12.03 20:46:00 - [53] - Quote Another point I would like to make is that paying attention to the moving direction of a dot does not mean anything, as strafing and backpedaling can throw that off. It is a tactic I may use if I am running my Minamando. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3013	Posted - 2014.12.04 02:11:00 - [54] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Not my idea: If Precision > Profile, no marker on TacNet If Precision <= Profile, circular marker on TacNet If Precision << Profile, directional marker on TacNet You like? I like. (In addition to upcoming Falloff, of course.) That was my idea! "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm Learning Alliance 671	Posted - 2014.12.04 02:19:00 - [55] - Quote IMO the only problem with tacnet orientational removal is that it is an indirect buff to heavies Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.


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MY LIFE FOR AIUR!

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Give me da iskiez

Gk0 Scout yay :)

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