|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
195
   |
Posted - 2014.11.20 16:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
I would like to start a discussion about the tacnet directional arrow. It seems many people want it removed. I would like people to state why they think it should be removed and what doing so will hope to achieve.
I've heard the buzzword "prefireing scouts" used repeatedly. I do not understand what this implies, someone please explain? |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
196
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 18:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:The directional arrow is needed for Scouts who are trying to be Scouts (as opposed to Brick Tanked Scouts trying to be Logi or Assault), because they need to know when the other guy is looking the other way so they can sneak up behind them, because a proper scouts dies really fast if someone sees them.
On top of the Directional Arrows, I feel that there should be an indication of Frame size, so that Assault/Logi have an easier time avoiding HMG Sentinels, or be able to engage them in a more tactical manner. (Granted, they may end up avoiding CommandoGÇÖs as well, but that does not really heart the medium frame suits too much and might be good for the Commando.)
Also, Medium Frame suits need more passive scan range so that Sentinels canGÇÖt sneak up behind them.
(I say this as a dedicated HMG Sentinel since 1.3.)
This is the best summary of how I feel about the situation, top to bottom. Thank you Fox, this +1. |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
198
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 18:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Arrow should be gone for sure. All it does is allow full on wallhacks.
Knowing where the enemy is, that is fine, but knowing their facing is such a ridiculously enormous advantage: by removing the facing arrow, Scouts would have to be so much more cautious and anyone using the Tac-Net to locate enemies wouldn't instantly know that they can just charge in because the enemy is facing the other way.
Anything that helps cut down on Scouts murdering everything because of their insane EWar advantages is a good thing.
I also feel, as a scout, that scouts ewar needs to be brought down and medium/heavy frames need to be brough to the ewar playing field. I am all for proper complex ewar competition between all mercs. With the upcoming changes to the ewar system coupled with buffs to precision for all mediums and heavies, nerfs to scout precision and profile, I believe the source of the problem is finally being attacked. Removing the directional arrow only affects the scouts that have been playing the intended role. Slayer light assault scouts would be completely unimpeded by the arrow as they will be attacking at optimal distance anyway.
The scout that does not even want to engage with the enemy, but simply lay low, moving from cover to cover, over watching and defending, will be severely crippled by the removal of directional arrow on tacnet. |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
198
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 18:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lonewolf Heavy wrote:Kaeru Nayiri wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:The directional arrow is needed for Scouts who are trying to be Scouts (as opposed to Brick Tanked Scouts trying to be Logi or Assault), because they need to know when the other guy is looking the other way so they can sneak up behind them, because a proper scouts dies really fast if someone sees them.
On top of the Directional Arrows, I feel that there should be an indication of Frame size, so that Assault/Logi have an easier time avoiding HMG Sentinels, or be able to engage them in a more tactical manner. (Granted, they may end up avoiding CommandoGÇÖs as well, but that does not really heart the medium frame suits too much and might be good for the Commando.)
Also, Medium Frame suits need more passive scan range so that Sentinels canGÇÖt sneak up behind them.
(I say this as a dedicated HMG Sentinel since 1.3.) This is the best summary of how I feel about the situation, top to bottom. Thank you Fox, this +1. As nice as that would be, That shouldn't happen. All the scanner is picking up is IFF signals, not the physical suit itself. However by seeing the direction an IFF is moving you can see its direction its facing, but it shouldn't be able to tell what exactly you are up against.
You make a very good point, Lonewolf. |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
198
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 18:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Not my idea:
If Precision > Profile, no marker on TacNet
If Precision <= Profile, circular marker on TacNet
If Precision << Profile, directional marker on TacNet
You like? I like.
(In addition to upcoming Falloff, of course.)
Anything that adds to the dynamics of it without outright removal is good for me. I like this idea as well ! |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
198
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 19:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
ROMULUS H3X wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Arrow should be gone for sure. All it does is allow full on wallhacks.
Knowing where the enemy is, that is fine, but knowing their facing is such a ridiculously enormous advantage: by removing the facing arrow, Scouts would have to be so much more cautious and anyone using the Tac-Net to locate enemies wouldn't instantly know that they can just charge in because the enemy is facing the other way.
Anything that helps cut down on Scouts murdering everything because of their insane EWar advantages is a good thing. This guy hit it right on the head, nothing else needs to be said in order to convice the community that permanent wall hax break any game... the fact that scouts were allowed to run around for this long with a broken scan mechanic is attrocious.. All of you crutch-players are about to lose your crutch... going to be funny watching you all fall on your faces.
Explain? |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
201
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 19:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
ROMULUS H3X wrote:
Imagine playing PAC-MAN with the ghosts blue all the time. Now imagine they don't run scared because they don't see you...
EZ-MODE right?
That's basically how scouts play DUST 514.
You are talking about scouts as a general thing. If scouts are the problem, they should be removed outright from the game. You are not being constructive.
If your problem is brick tanked combat rifle scouts, that's one thing. If your problem is militia fit remote explosive spam that's another thing. If your problem is scout absolute e-war advantage, that's another thing as well. NONE of these have to do with the directional arrow, they are all problems that need to be addressed. I personally want all those things fixed. Fortunately, absolute ewar will be a thing of the past very soon with the new system coming up.
It boils down to what scouts SHOULD be capable of doing, and how to encourage that. This does the opposite. If I can't sneak I will stack HP. |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
201
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 19:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
3 minute video of a scout (me) actually trying to be a scout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whyzdgVSRv0
You can either favor and encourage this playstyle (~250 HP), OR you can hurt this playstyle. Eitherway, however, the "light assault" is unaffected by the directional arrow. |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
202
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 20:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
ROMULUS H3X wrote:
Removing the dirrectional arrow gets rid of their attack role.
[...]
My argument is that the directional arrow is an important defensive tool. I am not refuting it's use for attack, simply that it is important for defense. I would MUCH RATHER see the attack power of the scout come down then have what little defense true scouts have left be reduced. |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
204
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 17:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
ROMULUS H3X wrote:Kaeru Nayiri wrote:ROMULUS H3X wrote:
Removing the dirrectional arrow gets rid of their attack role.
[...]
My argument is that the directional arrow is an important defensive tool. I am not refuting it's use for attack, simply that it is important for defense. I would MUCH RATHER see the attack power of the scout come down then have what little defense true scouts have left be reduced. Well for defense, a scout is supposed to try and be invisible to enemy scans. Speed also helps a scouts defense... Their passive scans which gives off every nearby enemies location is also for defense..... The fact that scouts can stack so much armor is great for their defense too.... 1 armor plate would double a scouts base armor, might as well let them stack 3 or 4 right? **** it lets put 5 armor plates! Yes... scouts have LITTLE defense...
Wait... You are encouraging the idea that scouts should stack HP modules for defense instead of low EHP + subterfuge?? I think I am now understanding why we do not agree. |
|
|
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
204
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 17:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Back on topic, I want this thread to stay about the directional arrow, and not devolve into a scout thread.
I have a very good thread about nerfing scouts here:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=180634&find=unread
Feel free to add your comments in there, Romulus. |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
228
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 18:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
The tacnet directional arrow is getting removed in 1.10. I feel as though little community feedback was taken into account with this decision and want to see what others think about it. Thoughts? Who do you think will be most affected by this change and who will be affected the least? |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
228
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 20:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Romulus, who do you think will be most affected by the directional arrow removal, and who do you think will be least affected?
Also wall hacks are still present. Though the directional arrow is gone, unfortunately there are still red dots showing up on tacnet and chevrons appearing through walls on HUD. |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
229
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 17:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Zindorak wrote:I know it's unrelated but what's falloff?
Falloff is the concept that something gets weaker as it you get further and further away from it's source. With weapons it's loss of damage the further away you are. With scanning it's losing scanning precision on objects that are further away. Hope that answers your question ! |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
234
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 19:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
ROMULUS H3X wrote:
God, are you really this hard headed?
What I meant by the wall hacks = directional arrows.... No need to make stupid comments as if I thought the damn radar was dissapearing off the HUD...
Hmmmm, did you really just ask me who would be most affected by the arrows removal?
Let me skip the most obvious answers because i hate repeating myself to nimrods, plain and simple we all benefit.
Every last one of us will benefit from removing these crutch arrows.
I say crutch because without them we will have to learn REAL skills and REAL espionage instead of it being handed to you on a silver platter.
Scouts might have to actually WORK to do their job!
This is why we can't have nice things.
:3 |
|
|
| |
|