My roomate is proto Minmando but he finds that the range on the swarms isn't far enough, it has problems locking on when the dropship is near enemy buildings (cru, supply depot, etc) and that swarms are just too easy to avoid.

I think it is silly that you cant use swarms to destory a neutral building.

My roomate is proto Minmando but he finds that the range on the swarms isn't far enough, it has problems locking on when the dropship is near enemy buildings (cru, supply depot, etc) and that swarms are just too easy to avoid.

I think it is silly that you cant use swarms to destory a neutral building.

As a main ads pilot, I find it difficult to do anything in a match so long as there is a swarm of any kind somewhere on the field. I am gonna try and cover a few of the problems with them and I want to see other peoples opinion on them.

1: Turn speed "nerf"

Recently in one of the hot fixes when all the AV was changed, the swarm launcher got this "nerf". I put it in quotes because in almost every instance where I thought it would be to my advantage, it wasn't. When the missiles are in flight, from what I understand, they fly toward the location you are at at the time, and then repeating that process every few short seconds. The "nerf" cause the missiles to be more likely to fly around any object or terrain that the pilot would use as cover to prevent damage. This means on the downside they have a long flight path, but it doesn't matter cause it'll still go around the object most of the time or catch up to its target by the time he gets safe.

2: lock speed and lock box

After dying a few times from swarms I gave in, I skilled in to swarms and a commando just to see what it is like on the other end of the gun. I was astonished to see that my lock box took up almost half the screen and would auto lock on to anything that was in the box. After I found my target, which would usually be a poor unsuspecting ads, it would take just about 3 seconds to get a lock on and fire, which I think is understandable. But what really got me was the fact that I could get the second lock on before first one hit just about every time, which usually meant I could get the third lock in before they had time to process the fact they were getting shot. Maybe an increased time in between shots?

3. Invisible missiles

I know MANY people have mentioned this before but it is still something that needs to be changed ASAP. During my adventures with the swarm launcher, it occurred to me that most of the time, even if directly under them, the ads wouldn't come back to target his threat after flying away to regenerate some Hp. I figured he either didn't see me as a threat or something like that. But a majority of the times when I was shooting at something like the incubus, something that could usually survive all three rounds of a clip, would try and look for me but due to what I presumed to be the invisible swarm bug, it was near impossible to find me.

4. Rendering

This isn't a bug that only affects swarm infantry, I usually saw, or didn't see I should say, all infantry. When swooping in to fight av infantry who would usually be in one spot up high, i was never able to render their clone by the time I was above them. This meant I would be exposing my dropship to the Av for a longer period of time, especially because after swooping in like a majestic eagle, I would either have to do a slow turn-around or fly away and hope they render earlier next time.

5. Damage application

I didn't get the honor of skilling in to the infamous ads slayer (minmatar commando) but I got a glimpse of it. It's ability to stack not only two complex damage mods, but an explosive AND reload bonus native to the suit, and the swarm launcher prof (I'm not sure if that increases damage or not) plus it can also have a second light weapon such as a mass driver that will get all it's other bonuses to be used against infantry. Not only will it make it almost impossible to work against an ads, but it will decimate LAVs and make tanks run for their lives. I think it needs a bonus like this, but not to this extent of destruct to EVERTHING. I don't know the actual numbers but I know this has the capability to kill any ads within its 3 shots.

I hope this can help balance the battle field in someway. I'd like to hear some other opinions on the subject so leave a reply.

175 meter lock with 400 meter travel isn't long enough?

@_@

I burn at least one dropship every match and drop with swarms to try to keep enemy pilots off of my uplinks. Swarms will not kill me unless I let them period. Swarms are useless to kill most dropships check your fitting because it takes at least 4 shots on a ads to kill it without a hardener. Even then the only ds downs I get are from a hard landing then swarming before they shoot me to death. Lock on range increase would go a long way to help av no pun intended and I would be fine with a slightly smaller box as a trade off.

python or incubus?

cause atm python is the only one capable of standing up to swarms with innate resistance to explosive on shields +20% then throw on a hardener 80% and maybe a second one for good measure 95% resist! to swarms!

rail ads can stay out above 175m and still get kills if your accurate enough

Not even close, sure it has the range but the hit box when shooting with a rail turret is so off that it's near impossible at any range. I can see hitting things like snipers and heavies at that range but killing things that really matter is impossible

I burn at least one dropship every match and drop with swarms to try to keep enemy pilots off of my uplinks. Swarms will not kill me unless I let them period. Swarms are useless to kill most dropships check your fitting because it takes at least 4 shots on a ads to kill it without a hardener. Even then the only ds downs I get are from a hard landing then swarming before they shoot me to death. Lock on range increase would go a long way to help av no pun intended and I would be fine with a slightly smaller box as a trade off.

I've popped a number of vehicles using Rail Turrets; you have to lead 'em a 'bit. Also, swarm range of 175m should be extended, but not until the issues behind "invisible swarms" are resolved.

rail ads can stay out above 175m and still get kills if your accurate enough

As a main ads pilot, I find it difficult to do anything in a match so long as there is a swarm of any kind somewhere on the field. I am gonna try and cover a few of the problems with them and I want to see other peoples opinion on them.

1: Turn speed "nerf"

Recently in one of the hot fixes when all the AV was changed, the swarm launcher got this "nerf". I put it in quotes because in almost every instance where I thought it would be to my advantage, it wasn't. When the missiles are in flight, from what I understand, they fly toward the location you are at at the time, and then repeating that process every few short seconds. The "nerf" cause the missiles to be more likely to fly around any object or terrain that the pilot would use as cover to prevent damage. This means on the downside they have a long flight path, but it doesn't matter cause it'll still go around the object most of the time or catch up to its target by the time he gets safe.

2: lock speed and lock box

After dying a few times from swarms I gave in, I skilled in to swarms and a commando just to see what it is like on the other end of the gun. I was astonished to see that my lock box took up almost half the screen and would auto lock on to anything that was in the box. After I found my target, which would usually be a poor unsuspecting ads, it would take just about 3 seconds to get a lock on and fire, which I think is understandable. But what really got me was the fact that I could get the second lock on before first one hit just about every time, which usually meant I could get the third lock in before they had time to process the fact they were getting shot. Maybe an increased time in between shots?

3. Invisible missiles

I know MANY people have mentioned this before but it is still something that needs to be changed ASAP. During my adventures with the swarm launcher, it occurred to me that most of the time, even if directly under them, the ads wouldn't come back to target his threat after flying away to regenerate some Hp. I figured he either didn't see me as a threat or something like that. But a majority of the times when I was shooting at something like the incubus, something that could usually survive all three rounds of a clip, would try and look for me but due to what I presumed to be the invisible swarm bug, it was near impossible to find me.

4. Rendering

This isn't a bug that only affects swarm infantry, I usually saw, or didn't see I should say, all infantry. When swooping in to fight av infantry who would usually be in one spot up high, i was never able to render their clone by the time I was above them. This meant I would be exposing my dropship to the Av for a longer period of time, especially because after swooping in like a majestic eagle, I would either have to do a slow turn-around or fly away and hope they render earlier next time.

5. Damage application

I didn't get the honor of skilling in to the infamous ads slayer (minmatar commando) but I got a glimpse of it. It's ability to stack not only two complex damage mods, but an explosive AND reload bonus native to the suit, and the swarm launcher prof (I'm not sure if that increases damage or not) plus it can also have a second light weapon such as a mass driver that will get all it's other bonuses to be used against infantry. Not only will it make it almost impossible to work against an ads, but it will decimate LAVs and make tanks run for their lives. I think it needs a bonus like this, but not to this extent of destruct to EVERTHING. I don't know the actual numbers but I know this has the capability to kill any ads within its 3 shots.

I hope this can help balance the battle field in someway. I'd like to hear some other opinions on the subject so leave a reply.

cause atm python is the only one capable of standing up to swarms with innate resistance to explosive on shields +20% then throw on a hardener 80% and maybe a second one for good measure 95% resist! to swarms!

rail ads can stay out above 175m and still get kills if your accurate enough

rail ads can stay out above 175m and still get kills if your accurate enough

rail ads can stay out above 175m and still get kills if your accurate enough

A rail ADS is also nearly useless.

Please stop posting ridiculous numbers for your arguments.
Double hardener fits are extremely effective against Swarms, as they should be, but as White Lion has pointed out, they have the downside (a completely reasonable downside) of a hefty cooldown and intense vulnerability during such cooldown.


This is a truly stupid statement.

The Swarm lock-on of 175m is perfectly fine: you can engage targets that are somewhat far away, and any that stray into your immediate (100-120m radius) area can be engaged without concern. Any longer than this and we return to 1.6 and earlier, where we had 400m lock-on Swarmers covering every objective on the map from the redline - in case you don't remember, it was broken as balls.

Swarms have every advantage possible for an AV weapon: range enough to reach any vehicle that is actively engaged in the battle (ie, anything but redline railguns essentially); power enough to cause every vehicle to be concerned (even double hardener fits have to worry, because of the prevalence of Swarms and the short duration of the hardeners); and the complete ease of use provided by lock-on on weaponry, especially when paired with short lock-on times and fast travel speed.

The only balancing factor for Swarms currently is that shield vehicles are inherently resistant to them. And currently, armour vehicles are getting totally shafted by all forms of AV while AVers (primarily Swarmers) complain that shield vehicles are too tough when kitted out to defend against anti-armour AV weapons.

rail ads can stay out above 175m and still get kills if your accurate enough

rail ads can stay out above 175m and still get kills if your accurate enough

Some words

Fun thought experiment: Why are swarms virtually never used in PC.

Fun thought experiment: Why are swarms virtually never used in PC.

Fun thought experiment: Why are swarms virtually never used in PC.

5. Damage application

I didn't get the honor of skilling in to the infamous ads slayer (minmatar commando) but I got a glimpse of it. It's ability to stack not only two complex damage mods, but an explosive AND reload bonus native to the suit, and the swarm launcher prof (I'm not sure if that increases damage or not) plus it can also have a second light weapon such as a mass driver that will get all it's other bonuses to be used against infantry. Not only will it make it almost impossible to work against an ads, but it will decimate LAVs and make tanks run for their lives. I think it needs a bonus like this, but not to this extent of destruct to EVERTHING. I don't know the actual numbers but I know this has the capability to kill any ads within its 3 shots.

I hope this can help balance the battle field in someway. I'd like to hear some other opinions on the subject so leave a reply.

Have you ever been in PC before? They are used with MinMandos as an over watch on an objective .

Because damage stacked rail tanks and tower forges take up most AV slots.

OK a little background on me first ive been playing since closed beta and the swarm and mass driver were the first things i have spec. into, using on on a min logi ( used for av support and hacking speed). I have always played this game its practically the only game that i play currently, i also use the proto minmando so i can reduce one of the biggest downs sides of the swarm launcher its reload time ( at least it is to me). recently i have speced into Drop ships and i have noticed one thing, The ADS are NOT ment to stay in a hot zone for to long i find i do best when i strafe or when i have ground support, there are times when i get caught off guard or i get really cunty and go " screw these people i can take them on" just to be shot down. where as the STD DS are ment to absorb damage i can actually sit for a bit and take swarm after swarm after swarm but then again i am unable to shoot back and HAVE to rely on my squad to take the AV out ( i still do every thing i can to avoid rail units) i can take about 2-3 forge gun rounds before i have to bugg out.

ok and now to address your supposed issues
but there is one thins what ADS or DS do you use if i had to place a bet it would be on a DS, but any ways

1.I have noticed when i swarm that there are times when they will fly into the building while trying to get around as a swarmer, remember when they nerfed the swarm launcher they also nerfed the rail rifle but with 1.9 thoes changes changes got erased. now if they fixed it and changed it back or not i do not know.
As a pilot if i am allowed to call my self that, i will notice that i tend to loose swarms as soon as i fly around a building other times i can fly across the map hide behind something and still get pelted by swarms
most of the time its they fly into objects rather than go around buildings.
2. The lock on time us fine there is a 3 second lock on time plus a 2 second re-lock time, that is plenty of time to figure out hey i should GTFO most people engage vehicles around the 100m range i try to engage within 75-20m range so there is less travel time and i can choose when would be the optimal time to attack now even if you say that the lock is only 3 seconds you you mean that you cant fly out of the 175 range within 9 seconds? and every pilot has a AB. the lock on box is a bit big but then again it can only target vehicles but then again i didnt make the game

3+4. there has always been a issue with invs-o missiles and pilots not rendering correctly but its the same with the drop ships as well there have been times when i can hear the drop ship but cant find it then ill start to get pelted then still cant find it so i htink its on both ends with the rendering issue, but i can agree that the rendering issue is bad for the pilot

5. LOL really i have seen pythons incubus take swarm after swarm pop on sheild recharger and fly away, i can do it with my myron, with no problem shielded vehicles are the bane of swarm users

I've seen a grand total of one commando in PC in the past couple of months, and Im pretty sure he was an idiot because he was wandering around in the open not paying attention.

What Im trying to say here is AV sucks ass, and if you're honestly complaining about AV like its worth anything, you need to apply a little thought to how you use your vehicles, because its REALLY easy to avoid being killed.

Fun thought experiment: Why are swarms virtually never used in PC.

Fun thought experiment: Why are swarms virtually never used in PC.

I've seen a grand total of one commando in PC in the past couple of months, and Im pretty sure he was an idiot because he was wandering around in the open not paying attention.

What Im trying to say here is AV sucks ass, and if you're honestly complaining about AV like its worth anything, you need to apply a little thought to how you use your vehicles, because its REALLY easy to avoid being killed.

Wow, that is the biggest load of crap I ever heard.

But that's Asking a better question... Who are you fighting? And how often do you get benched in PC? Cause most of the best corps in Tso's always have a commando on over watch of a point with either a mass driver/rail rifle and proto swarms, that way they have one person covering two roles, which gives an extra person on the ground.

Swarms actually are insanely powerful with effortless damage application, but PC is mostly about infantry holding points. You put on the bare minimum AV, and use AV that can also fight infantry

Thats it

exactly, but commandos can play both the role of AV and overwatch, leaving an opens Slot since you don't have one person for each role, squads can run a better ground team with that extra person.

I still think swarms are pretty ****, and I think the fact that the only viable swarm platform that everyone points to being one specific suit with some pretty crazy bonuses is not a contradiction that swarms suck, its a confirmation.

We never talk about some specific heavy to run forge guns with, or some special scout that makes the shotgun rule. These weapons are largely the same over all suits, and they are all good. The only thing thats even remotely similar are some of the rifle weapons (combat rifle/scrambler especially) which are slightly better on their races' assault suit, but they are still GOOD weapons on every other suit. I dont think the swarm launcher is like that, its just bad, and one specific suit with massive reload and damage bonuses makes it usable.

Its my experience in PC, sorry buddy.

I'd love to see some actual usage stats from CCP.

To answer the start of your entry... I'm maxed out on both ADSes

1. It was the intention of CCP to increase the turn speed, so when they fixed all of the bugs, that is one thing that stayed.

2. Lock time is 2.(something) seconds, relock time is 1.05 seconds. Don't go throwing around numbers if they aren't true.

3-4. Maybe you're blind/clueless? I don't know... The fact is that is should be a top priority to fix something like this because it is a very important factor to the game.

5. Exactly, now tell me how long did they fly away for after taking 1 or 2 shots? 30-45seconds... Of sitting in the redline AFTER the turned the mod off. Incubi (Incubuses, incuben, moosen, whatever) don't have that capability even with hardeners or plates, which it should be, but with stacked d mods, inaite damage boost, increased reload speed, +%20 armor damage, swarm prof., etc... All those boost kind of over kill any armor vehicle.

1. they are soo nerfed i gotta be like 10m away from a HAV or else they just seem to orbit the HAV for a while cause they cannot turn hard enough to impact.

2.lockspeed needs to be fast or you lose damage application this can easly be seen on tripple rep maddies when you reload and see all the hp you damaged rep back up.. lock box however can be quite small but also useing a swarm at the time leaves you vulnerable to scout assassinations and snipers and other infantry.

3+4 basically same whine, it stems from lag.. you could turn your graphics down to medium but you may still get invisa-missiles due to lag and time taken to render them, however its nowhere as bad as it used to be.

5.its not the fact minmando can use a whole 2 complex damage mods but the fact it gets like 5% explosive damage per level so thats 25% at 5 not sure if suit dmg bonus effects stacking but i think suit+1 complex =31% and then the next one may only give 4% instead of 6% because of stacking penalties so that would be 35% damage... however im happy with this because commando are slow and fat(large hitbox) and there is the SHORT 175m lock range.

you obviously didnt get the memo..

all ads pilots worth their salt now fly python + shield hardeners to get 80% + resist to swarms so they can just shrug off the swarms as they blap the Swarm users, so yes if you skilled incubus your S.O.L. even if you fit double hardners...
you would be -20% on armor +1 hard = 20% resist then stacking penalties for second i assume so that is +35% resist for a 2nd.. maybe +40% for a third

Either way, I still think swarms are highly unbalanced against armor vehicles to the point that it almost makes them useless. I don't want swarms to be nerfed in to the ground, but I think some rebalancing is needed.

I think that they should just remove efficiency and inefficiency until they decide to finally put the rest of the weapons in game

I dont care if "because EVE", this is what we have NOW, and its unbalanced

Ehh, that wouldn't work. That would just put all the rifles for example, on the same standard as each other. Making it so the best weapon is the one with the highest dps on the suit with the most ehp.

As a main ads pilot, I find it difficult to do anything in a match so long as there is a swarm of any kind somewhere on the field. I am gonna try and cover a few of the problems with them and I want to see other peoples opinion on them.

1: Turn speed "nerf"

Recently in one of the hot fixes when all the AV was changed, the swarm launcher got this "nerf". I put it in quotes because in almost every instance where I thought it would be to my advantage, it wasn't. When the missiles are in flight, from what I understand, they fly toward the location you are at at the time, and then repeating that process every few short seconds. The "nerf" cause the missiles to be more likely to fly around any object or terrain that the pilot would use as cover to prevent damage. This means on the downside they have a long flight path, but it doesn't matter cause it'll still go around the object most of the time or catch up to its target by the time he gets safe.

2: lock speed and lock box

After dying a few times from swarms I gave in, I skilled in to swarms and a commando just to see what it is like on the other end of the gun. I was astonished to see that my lock box took up almost half the screen and would auto lock on to anything that was in the box. After I found my target, which would usually be a poor unsuspecting ads, it would take just about 3 seconds to get a lock on and fire, which I think is understandable. But what really got me was the fact that I could get the second lock on before first one hit just about every time, which usually meant I could get the third lock in before they had time to process the fact they were getting shot. Maybe an increased time in between shots?

3. Invisible missiles

I know MANY people have mentioned this before but it is still something that needs to be changed ASAP. During my adventures with the swarm launcher, it occurred to me that most of the time, even if directly under them, the ads wouldn't come back to target his threat after flying away to regenerate some Hp. I figured he either didn't see me as a threat or something like that. But a majority of the times when I was shooting at something like the incubus, something that could usually survive all three rounds of a clip, would try and look for me but due to what I presumed to be the invisible swarm bug, it was near impossible to find me.

4. Rendering

This isn't a bug that only affects swarm infantry, I usually saw, or didn't see I should say, all infantry. When swooping in to fight av infantry who would usually be in one spot up high, i was never able to render their clone by the time I was above them. This meant I would be exposing my dropship to the Av for a longer period of time, especially because after swooping in like a majestic eagle, I would either have to do a slow turn-around or fly away and hope they render earlier next time.

5. Damage application

I didn't get the honor of skilling in to the infamous ads slayer (minmatar commando) but I got a glimpse of it. It's ability to stack not only two complex damage mods, but an explosive AND reload bonus native to the suit, and the swarm launcher prof (I'm not sure if that increases damage or not) plus it can also have a second light weapon such as a mass driver that will get all it's other bonuses to be used against infantry. Not only will it make it almost impossible to work against an ads, but it will decimate LAVs and make tanks run for their lives. I think it needs a bonus like this, but not to this extent of destruct to EVERTHING. I don't know the actual numbers but I know this has the capability to kill any ads within its 3 shots.

I hope this can help balance the battle field in someway. I'd like to hear some other opinions on the subject so leave a reply.

Clearly your experience doesn't involve flying. No offense, but every PC I've been in has at least 2 swarms trained on me.

I can give you usage stats though. First up is pubs. I recorded this over the course of seven pub matches.

Rail turrets (installations and tanks): 3
Missile tanks: 1
blaster: 2
rail incubus: 1
PLC: 1
Forge: 3
Swarms: 20

I truly wish I was exaggerating, but this is the amount of effort I see into people wanting to kill us vehicle users.

Now onto PC matches: PC usually puts up these AV numbers

rail tanks:1
Forge: 1-2 on average
rail incubus: 1 usually
swarms: 2-3, and depending on map, 4

Usually, I see more swarms than any other form of AV in PC. Usually, 2 forms of AV are focused on me in any of those. But currently, swarms are the most used.

1: Turn speed "nerf"

Recently in one of the hot fixes when all the AV was changed, the swarm launcher got this "nerf". I put it in quotes because in almost every instance where I thought it would be to my advantage, it wasn't. When the missiles are in flight, from what I understand, they fly toward the location you are at at the time, and then repeating that process every few short seconds. The "nerf" cause the missiles to be more likely to fly around any object or terrain that the pilot would use as cover to prevent damage. This means on the downside they have a long flight path, but it doesn't matter cause it'll still go around the object most of the time or catch up to its target by the time he gets safe.

2: lock speed and lock box

After dying a few times from swarms I gave in, I skilled in to swarms and a commando just to see what it is like on the other end of the gun. I was astonished to see that my lock box took up almost half the screen and would auto lock on to anything that was in the box. After I found my target, which would usually be a poor unsuspecting ads, it would take just about 3 seconds to get a lock on and fire, which I think is understandable. But what really got me was the fact that I could get the second lock on before first one hit just about every time, which usually meant I could get the third lock in before they had time to process the fact they were getting shot. Maybe an increased time in between shots?

3. Invisible missiles

I know MANY people have mentioned this before but it is still something that needs to be changed ASAP. During my adventures with the swarm launcher, it occurred to me that most of the time, even if directly under them, the ads wouldn't come back to target his threat after flying away to regenerate some Hp. I figured he either didn't see me as a threat or something like that. But a majority of the times when I was shooting at something like the incubus, something that could usually survive all three rounds of a clip, would try and look for me but due to what I presumed to be the invisible swarm bug, it was near impossible to find me.

4. Rendering

This isn't a bug that only affects swarm infantry, I usually saw, or didn't see I should say, all infantry. When swooping in to fight av infantry who would usually be in one spot up high, i was never able to render their clone by the time I was above them. This meant I would be exposing my dropship to the Av for a longer period of time, especially because after swooping in like a majestic eagle, I would either have to do a slow turn-around or fly away and hope they render earlier next time.

5. Damage application

I didn't get the honor of skilling in to the infamous ads slayer (minmatar commando) but I got a glimpse of it. It's ability to stack not only two complex damage mods, but an explosive AND reload bonus native to the suit, and the swarm launcher prof (I'm not sure if that increases damage or not) plus it can also have a second light weapon such as a mass driver that will get all it's other bonuses to be used against infantry. Not only will it make it almost impossible to work against an ads, but it will decimate LAVs and make tanks run for their lives. I think it needs a bonus like this, but not to this extent of destruct to EVERTHING. I don't know the actual numbers but I know this has the capability to kill any ads within its 3 shots.

I hope this can help balance the battle field in someway. I'd like to hear some other opinions on the subject so leave a reply.

Popped a number of vehicles using Rail

Numb of vehicles

Vehicles

a¦á_a¦á

Vehicles aren't the problem, it's infantry that can't be touched by rails.

dropshops are not meant as easy kills against infantry.

git gud and deal with it.

Either way, I still think swarms are highly unbalanced against armor vehicles to the point that it almost makes them useless. I don't want swarms to be nerfed in to the ground, but I think some rebalancing is needed.

That would be a partly fair argument if we had a full suite of AV weapons, instead of the vast majority being anti armor

I skilled in to swarms and a commando just to see what it is like on the other end of the gun. I was astonished to see that my lock box took up almost half the screen and would auto lock on to anything that was in the box.

Honestly, OP.....I personally feel like ADS should be worried about AV. I feel like its balanced perfectly.

You ADS pilots want to sit in the sky and be totally untouchable while you rain down missiles upon infantry and you want a fair shake. However, that in of itself is hardly a fair shake. Boots on the ground where its a 50/50 shot each time is much more fair.

So yes, AV SHOULD be over powered....it SHOULD be very hard to ADS if you plan to sit nestled in your little piece of the sky and rack up kills for your KDR.

Fly away little birdie, fly away :D

I revendicate the possibility to tie Proximity Explosives to weather ballons to set aerial minefields!

Honestly, OP.....I personally feel like ADS should be worried about AV. I feel like its balanced perfectly.

You ADS pilots want to sit in the sky and be totally untouchable while you rain down missiles upon infantry and you want a fair shake. However, that in of itself is hardly a fair shake. Boots on the ground where its a 50/50 shot each time is much more fair.

So yes, AV SHOULD be over powered....it SHOULD be very hard to ADS if you plan to sit nestled in your little piece of the sky and rack up kills for your KDR.

Fly away little birdie, fly away :D

I think that they should just remove efficiency and inefficiency until they decide to finally put the rest of the weapons in game

I dont care if "because EVE", this is what we have NOW, and its unbalanced

Maybe its just that I have a different definition of AV. I want AV to actually be able to kill a vehicle even if its pilot isnt a ******.

That would be a partly fair argument if we had a full suite of AV weapons, instead of the vast majority being anti armor

That also doesn't address swarms being TOO effective vs Armor

I dont expect you of all people to acknowledge an imbalance that works in your favor, particularly against vehicles, considering your answer is "stop using vehicles". You're notorious for not understanding vehicles, but happily chiming in to get them nerfed at every turn

No, it's still a fair (and correct) argument. Armored Vehicles (nor anything Armored) aren't supposed to be effective against Anti-Armor weapons. We could have 50 Anti-Armor AV weapons and that wouldn't change.


They're Explosive, which is the highest Anti-Armor profile in this game. Given how they're also extremely weak against Shields, their extreme efficiency against Armor is warranted.

If you feel that their efficiency against Armor needs to be reduced, than their inefficiency against Shields needs to be reduced as well. Otherwise Swarms would become worthless against Shields & Armor.

Not that you wouldn't want that, or that such a proposition would be passed.


The "stop using vehicles" option wasn't my only answer, but given how the OP seems to be incapable of comprehending the concept of Damage Profiles that may be necessary if he can't select the first two.

I burn at least one dropship every match and drop with swarms to try to keep enemy pilots off of my uplinks. Swarms will not kill me unless I let them period. Swarms are useless to kill most dropships check your fitting because it takes at least 4 shots on a ads to kill it without a hardener. Even then the only ds downs I get are from a hard landing then swarming before they shoot me to death. Lock on range increase would go a long way to help av no pun intended and I would be fine with a slightly smaller box as a trade off.

No, it's still a fair (and correct) argument. Armored Vehicles (nor anything Armored) aren't supposed to be effective against Anti-Armor weapons. We could have 50 Anti-Armor AV weapons and that wouldn't change.


They're Explosive, which is the highest Anti-Armor profile in this game. Given how they're also extremely weak against Shields, their extreme efficiency against Armor is warranted.

If you feel that their efficiency against Armor needs to be reduced, than their inefficiency against Shields needs to be reduced as well. Otherwise Swarms would become worthless against Shields & Armor.

Not that you wouldn't want that, or that such a proposition would be passed.


The "stop using vehicles" option wasn't my only answer, but given how the OP seems to be incapable of comprehending the concept of Damage Profiles that may be necessary if he can't select the first two.

I personally feel like ADS should be worried about AV. I feel like its balanced perfectly.
[...]
So yes, AV SHOULD be over powered....it SHOULD be very hard to ADS if you plan to sit nestled in your little piece of the sky and rack up kills for your KDR.

You ADS pilots want to sit in the sky and be totally untouchable while you rain down missiles upon infantry and you want a fair shake. However, that in of itself is hardly a fair shake. Boots on the ground where its a 50/50 shot each time is much more fair.

Pilots know about the swarms that kill them, but not about the many, many, more that don't.

Buff swarms they suck.

POOR MATHEMATICS!.

I've got Min Mando 5, Swarms Prof 5 and Reload 5.

You have to be a pretty big homer to not think swarms are OP against dropships. With 2 damage modd you can solo most pub match ADS pilots pretty easily. If there is ANYBODY else with AV of any type out its devastating to any vehicle and any pilot.

AV is very overpowered vs vehicles but I don't believe pubs can handle strong vehicles. As much as I loathe the scout meta currently, the blaster tanks of old made me want to turn my coffee table over.

1. they are soo nerfed i gotta be like 10m away from a HAV or else they just seem to orbit the HAV for a while cause they cannot turn hard enough to impact.

2.lockspeed needs to be fast or you lose damage application this can easly be seen on tripple rep maddies when you reload and see all the hp you damaged rep back up.. lock box however can be quite small but also useing a swarm at the time leaves you vulnerable to scout assassinations and snipers and other infantry.

3+4 basically same whine, it stems from lag.. you could turn your graphics down to medium but you may still get invisa-missiles due to lag and time taken to render them, however its nowhere as bad as it used to be.

5.its not the fact minmando can use a whole 2 complex damage mods but the fact it gets like 5% explosive damage per level so thats 25% at 5 not sure if suit dmg bonus effects stacking but i think suit+1 complex =31% and then the next one may only give 4% instead of 6% because of stacking penalties so that would be 35% damage... however im happy with this because commando are slow and fat(large hitbox) and there is the SHORT 175m lock range.

you obviously didnt get the memo..

all ads pilots worth their salt now fly python + shield hardeners to get 80% + resist to swarms so they can just shrug off the swarms as they blap the Swarm users, so yes if you skilled incubus your S.O.L. even if you fit double hardners...
you would be -20% on armor +1 hard = 20% resist then stacking penalties for second i assume so that is +35% resist for a 2nd.. maybe +40% for a third

I've got Min Mando 5, Swarms Prof 5 and Reload 5.

You have to be a pretty big homer to not think swarms are OP against dropships. With 2 damage modd you can solo most pub match ADS pilots pretty easily. If there is ANYBODY else with AV of any type out its devastating to any vehicle and any pilot.

AV is very overpowered vs vehicles but I don't believe pubs can handle strong vehicles. As much as I loathe the scout meta currently, the blaster tanks of old made me want to turn my coffee table over.

Or someone who knows what they're talking about.

Any ADS that's piloted with even the slightest lick of comment sense can escape 175m in a period of 5.37s, which is how long it takes to fire 3 volleys (and that's w/o travel time, mind you).

Though given how most Pilots who restrict themselves to Public Contracts are terrible, I do believe your statement. It means absolutely nothing and isn't a justification for anything, but I believe you.

I see no problems with two experienced AVers being "devastating to any vehicle and any pilot".


Overpowered against what? LAVs?

Any vehicle in DUST besides the Soma can be survive against any and all AVers provided that you're better at it than the AVer and your fit isn't garbage. Though the Madrugar does struggle against AVers with SLs, but that's the price to pay for using Armor against Explosives.

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PS:

I do know however, that you also happen to be a PC Player, correct? How about you and I go into a PC against people who aren't scrubs and see how OP those Swarms of yours are?

Or someone who knows what they're talking about.

Any ADS that's piloted with even the slightest lick of comment sense can escape 175m in a period of 5.37s, which is how long it takes to fire 3 volleys (and that's w/o travel time, mind you).

Though given how most Pilots who restrict themselves to Public Contracts are terrible, I do believe your statement. It means absolutely nothing and isn't a justification for anything, but I believe you.

I see no problems with two experienced AVers being "devastating to any vehicle and any pilot".


Overpowered against what? LAVs?

Any vehicle in DUST besides the Soma can be survive against any and all AVers provided that you're better at it than the AVer and your fit isn't garbage. Though the Madrugar does struggle against AVers with SLs, but that's the price to pay for using Armor against Explosives.

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PS:

I do know however, that you also happen to be a PC Player, correct? How about you and I go into a PC against people who aren't scrubs and see how OP those Swarms of yours are?