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Everything Dies
FUNNY NAME GOES HERE
1087
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Posted - 2014.11.18 20:25:00 -
[61] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:That would be a partly fair argument if we had a full suite of AV weapons, instead of the vast majority being anti armor
Painfully true. The tweak made to rail gun damage has all but doomed armor tanking for me; when I run a Maddy, I use a standard turret to keep costs low and accept the fact that I'll likely die before too long. My Ion Cannon Maddy sits in the corner collecting dust (no pun intended!)
Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
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ghy6tr4
Ganking Police Division
3
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Posted - 2014.11.18 20:37:00 -
[62] - Quote
Honestly, OP.....I personally feel like ADS should be worried about AV. I feel like its balanced perfectly.
You ADS pilots want to sit in the sky and be totally untouchable while you rain down missiles upon infantry and you want a fair shake. However, that in of itself is hardly a fair shake. Boots on the ground where its a 50/50 shot each time is much more fair.
So yes, AV SHOULD be over powered....it SHOULD be very hard to ADS if you plan to sit nestled in your little piece of the sky and rack up kills for your KDR.
Fly away little birdie, fly away :D |
Anarchide
Greedy Bastards
2641
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Posted - 2014.11.18 20:40:00 -
[63] - Quote
White-Lion wrote:I skilled in to swarms and a commando just to see what it is like on the other end of the gun. I was astonished to see that my lock box took up almost half the screen and would auto lock on to anything that was in the box.
You are smoking crack. Stop. Stop it right now.
Dust Loyalist
Greedy Bastards
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Anarchide
Greedy Bastards
2641
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Posted - 2014.11.18 20:48:00 -
[64] - Quote
I revendicate the possibility to tie Proximity Explosives to weather ballons to set aerial minefields!
Dust Loyalist
Greedy Bastards
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
15132
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Posted - 2014.11.18 22:28:00 -
[65] - Quote
ghy6tr4 wrote:Honestly, OP.....I personally feel like ADS should be worried about AV. I feel like its balanced perfectly.
You ADS pilots want to sit in the sky and be totally untouchable while you rain down missiles upon infantry and you want a fair shake. However, that in of itself is hardly a fair shake. Boots on the ground where its a 50/50 shot each time is much more fair.
So yes, AV SHOULD be over powered....it SHOULD be very hard to ADS if you plan to sit nestled in your little piece of the sky and rack up kills for your KDR.
Fly away little birdie, fly away :D
You don't even have the balls to troll on your main? Get in a dropship and let us show you how bad you are
Bitter Vet extraordinaire, vehicle specialist, sarcastic prick
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1296
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:57:00 -
[66] - Quote
I honestly don't know what to think, I see lots of complaining by vehicle users on the forums but I see Duna still having a kdr of 100, I see match after match heavily influenced by vehicles and I don't see swarmers racking up 20-1 games, while I see it quite often for vehicles. I've seen the posters in this thread do repeatedly while stating that vehickes aren't viable and every statistic we can get from CCP shows that vehicles are still overperforming.
I like where swarms are at. I can kill a tank but they have a realky good shot at killing me, ditto dropships, except the Python which despite the claims I read manage to outrun swarms 90% of the time. I've asked this many times and never got a real answer from pilots, but what metrics should we use to determine balance? Who cries the loudest is not very objective. KDR? along with ISK expended? In my mind, if we are balanced, the investment in AV should pretty much equal the investment in vehicles. 500,000 ISK in an ADS should be requiring 500,000 in swarms to kill. Then KDR (or ships destroyed should match that). That would mean 5 swarms would be consumed for every ADS lost. I would be willing to bet the number of swarms lost is 5 or 6 times that. Pilots know about the swarms that kill them, but not about the many, many, more that don't.
If we are only going to compare the amount of tears each side sheds, let me remind you, us dedicated AV'ers need and want vehicles on the field, we have no interest in eliminating you while vehicle users have no need and no reason to desire our presence. Which side do you think the benefit of the doubt should go to?
Because, that's why.
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White-Lion
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
44
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Posted - 2014.11.23 05:05:00 -
[67] - Quote
Anarchide wrote:I revendicate the possibility to tie Proximity Explosives to weather ballons to set aerial minefields!
Sure, but they have to be glowy-glowy disco balls and constantly keep floating up. I don't want my air space to be crowded ironically.
How all ads battles end...
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White-Lion
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
45
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Posted - 2014.11.23 05:17:00 -
[68] - Quote
ghy6tr4 wrote:Honestly, OP.....I personally feel like ADS should be worried about AV. I feel like its balanced perfectly.
You ADS pilots want to sit in the sky and be totally untouchable while you rain down missiles upon infantry and you want a fair shake. However, that in of itself is hardly a fair shake. Boots on the ground where its a 50/50 shot each time is much more fair.
So yes, AV SHOULD be over powered....it SHOULD be very hard to ADS if you plan to sit nestled in your little piece of the sky and rack up kills for your KDR.
Fly away little birdie, fly away :D
I (partly) agree with you. I think it should be hard ON BOTH ENDS to kill each other. AV are small targets and the vehicle turrets have short blast radius, which is fair. But swarms get this huge target who get shot by missiles (that are invisible half the time), and auto-lock on to their target and out fly them unless they use, either all or 1/3 third, of their high slots which could be used for something better
How all ads battles end...
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LUGMOS
YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE
908
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Posted - 2014.11.23 05:23:00 -
[69] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:White-Lion wrote:Either way, I still think swarms are highly unbalanced against armor vehicles to the point that it almost makes them useless. I don't want swarms to be nerfed in to the ground, but I think some rebalancing is needed. I think that they should just remove efficiency and inefficiency until they decide to finally put the rest of the weapons in game I dont care if "because EVE", this is what we have NOW, and its unbalanced
THANK YOU!!! I posted this idea a while back, and people said it was stupid and made shields irrelevant. My rebuttal was that armor was irrelevant and an actual burden. I'll add the link when I find it.
Quafe
A question doesn't always have an answer, but a problem does.
Forum Scavenger Prof. V
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White-Lion
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
45
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Posted - 2014.11.23 05:26:00 -
[70] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:[quote=Vesta Opalus][quote=White-Lion]Some words Maybe its just that I have a different definition of AV. I want AV to actually be able to kill a vehicle even if its pilot isnt a ******.
What I'm trying to get at, which I agree with you on this, is an AV should have the ability to kill a vehicle given some attempt at skill (some work needs to be done to get the kill). But as it stands now, everyone just runs their normal pub fits, but when a vehicle that actually becomes a threat walks in, everyone switches suits and gets that 2-3 second lock and usually gets all 3 shots off before they get out of range. There is no balance to the work that an ads pilot or tank has to go through compared to a swarm user. Forges are bit more balanced IMO because they are slow, but can take damage, slower ROF but high DPS, and there is no place a vehicle can hit that the forge cant shoot right back.
How all ads battles end...
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Negative-Feedback
13901
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Posted - 2014.11.23 05:36:00 -
[71] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:That would be a partly fair argument if we had a full suite of AV weapons, instead of the vast majority being anti armor
No, it's still a fair (and correct) argument. Armored Vehicles (nor anything Armored) aren't supposed to be effective against Anti-Armor weapons. We could have 50 Anti-Armor AV weapons and that wouldn't change.
DUST Fiend wrote:That also doesn't address swarms being TOO effective vs Armor
They're Explosive, which is the highest Anti-Armor profile in this game. Given how they're also extremely weak against Shields, their extreme efficiency against Armor is warranted.
If you feel that their efficiency against Armor needs to be reduced, than their inefficiency against Shields needs to be reduced as well. Otherwise Swarms would become worthless against Shields & Armor.
Not that you wouldn't want that, or that such a proposition would be passed.
DUST Fiend wrote:I dont expect you of all people to acknowledge an imbalance that works in your favor, particularly against vehicles, considering your answer is "stop using vehicles". You're notorious for not understanding vehicles, but happily chiming in to get them nerfed at every turn
The "stop using vehicles" option wasn't my only answer, but given how the OP seems to be incapable of comprehending the concept of Damage Profiles that may be necessary if he can't select the first two.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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LUGMOS
YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE
908
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Posted - 2014.11.23 05:41:00 -
[72] - Quote
Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:That would be a partly fair argument if we had a full suite of AV weapons, instead of the vast majority being anti armor No, it's still a fair (and correct) argument. Armored Vehicles (nor anything Armored) aren't supposed to be effective against Anti-Armor weapons. We could have 50 Anti-Armor AV weapons and that wouldn't change. DUST Fiend wrote:That also doesn't address swarms being TOO effective vs Armor They're Explosive, which is the highest Anti-Armor profile in this game. Given how they're also extremely weak against Shields, their extreme efficiency against Armor is warranted. If you feel that their efficiency against Armor needs to be reduced, than their inefficiency against Shields needs to be reduced as well. Otherwise Swarms would become worthless against Shields & Armor. Not that you wouldn't want that, or that such a proposition would be passed. DUST Fiend wrote:I dont expect you of all people to acknowledge an imbalance that works in your favor, particularly against vehicles, considering your answer is "stop using vehicles". You're notorious for not understanding vehicles, but happily chiming in to get them nerfed at every turn The "stop using vehicles" option wasn't my only answer, but given how the OP seems to be incapable of comprehending the concept of Damage Profiles that may be necessary if he can't select the first two.
The problem is you selectively answered the problem. How many anti armor weapons that are actually good at AV are there? 100% of them are anti armor, as PLC is ineffective against any competent ADS pilot. The problem is that in an effort to balance Shield oriented vehicles vs swarms, Armor vehicles get epicly shafted to the point of total inferiority. Therefore, a temporary removal of AV damage profiles should be executed until AV parity is met.
Quafe
A question doesn't always have an answer, but a problem does.
Forum Scavenger Prof. V
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
176
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Posted - 2014.11.23 07:13:00 -
[73] - Quote
Blueprint For Murder wrote:I burn at least one dropship every match and drop with swarms to try to keep enemy pilots off of my uplinks. Swarms will not kill me unless I let them period. Swarms are useless to kill most dropships check your fitting because it takes at least 4 shots on a ads to kill it without a hardener. Even then the only ds downs I get are from a hard landing then swarming before they shoot me to death. Lock on range increase would go a long way to help av no pun intended and I would be fine with a slightly smaller box as a trade off.
Can you share your fitting? |
CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
2567
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Posted - 2014.11.23 10:45:00 -
[74] - Quote
Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:That would be a partly fair argument if we had a full suite of AV weapons, instead of the vast majority being anti armor No, it's still a fair (and correct) argument. Armored Vehicles (nor anything Armored) aren't supposed to be effective against Anti-Armor weapons. We could have 50 Anti-Armor AV weapons and that wouldn't change. DUST Fiend wrote:That also doesn't address swarms being TOO effective vs Armor They're Explosive, which is the highest Anti-Armor profile in this game. Given how they're also extremely weak against Shields, their extreme efficiency against Armor is warranted. If you feel that their efficiency against Armor needs to be reduced, than their inefficiency against Shields needs to be reduced as well. Otherwise Swarms would become worthless against Shields & Armor. Not that you wouldn't want that, or that such a proposition would be passed. DUST Fiend wrote:I dont expect you of all people to acknowledge an imbalance that works in your favor, particularly against vehicles, considering your answer is "stop using vehicles". You're notorious for not understanding vehicles, but happily chiming in to get them nerfed at every turn The "stop using vehicles" option wasn't my only answer, but given how the OP seems to be incapable of comprehending the concept of Damage Profiles that may be necessary if he can't select the first two.
Thinking about this - in fairness this is no different from the way Scramblers and laser weapons decimate dropsuit shields.
Its a pity we dont have the eve side stuff of damage profiles for weapons and resistance modules for the vehicles and dropsuits. As any Caldari should know, stacking at least one or more anti-EM is usually a very good call. We don't have those sort of options in DUST 
"Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones"
"Guns for show, Knives for a pro"
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
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White-Lion
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
52
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Posted - 2014.11.23 18:46:00 -
[75] - Quote
I just think one of the biggest problems with Swarms is that it takes no "player skill" to operate the weapon efficiently. Like with the forge gun, its not impossible, but its difficult to hit an ads if at range, but at that point the ads is ineffective. But its its easy to hit when up close, but the forge gunner is under constant fire, its a fair trade on both parts.
But for swarms now, its just a point-lock-shoot system, and then there is almost no chance of the missiles missing, even now that the missiles fly just as fast or faster than the ads when its afterburners are running, so that forces the ads use the mod. There is no trade of other than the fact that the swarm user other than the fact that the swarm user is slightly weaker, but that doesn't make up for the previously mentioned key points.
How all ads battles end...
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
997
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Posted - 2014.11.23 19:30:00 -
[76] - Quote
ghy6tr4 wrote:I personally feel like ADS should be worried about AV. I feel like its balanced perfectly.
[...]
So yes, AV SHOULD be over powered....it SHOULD be very hard to ADS if you plan to sit nestled in your little piece of the sky and rack up kills for your KDR.
ADS already is worried about AV: the only AV that is ineffective against an adsnis the Plasma Cannon, because of the arc/travel speed. An ADS has to worry about AV every moment - the moment AV is detected basically gives you a 2 or 3 second window to deal with it, die, or run away.
AV should most definitely not be overpowered. Being overpowered would mean vehicles would be worth less a sort of like pre-1.7.
ghy6tr4 wrote:You ADS pilots want to sit in the sky and be totally untouchable while you rain down missiles upon infantry and you want a fair shake. However, that in of itself is hardly a fair shake. Boots on the ground where its a 50/50 shot each time is much more fair.
No, the majority do not want that and it is idiot AV players like you who talk rubbish. The current imbalance in AV is centred around one thing: the complete ease of use of the most effective AV weapon; Swarm Launchers.
Compared to the next best infantry AV weapon, the Forge Gun, the swarm is leaps and bounds ahead:
- no aiming necessary: your lock-on box takes up 70% of the screen
- almost guaranteed application: against an ADS there is an incredibly high likelihood of landing every volley you release.
- rapid-fire: compared to the FG, you fire almost twice as fast as the AFG and against an ADS you maintain the buffeting impulse effects...
- due to the knock back, an ADS attempting to engage has an extremely limited window due to being thrown about.
- being a light weapon to the FG's heavy makes the swarm much more flexible: fast on a scout or assault; supported with additional logi equipment; or extremely versatile with a commando.
I respect Forge Gunners and have had several good willed conversations with Forgers who've shot me down, and I respect them because they require skill and sacrifice. A Swarmer has almost every advantage over the Forger except for a somewhat better damage profile. Against a Swarmer I do not feel I have an opportunity to outmanoeuvre them because swarms never miss (well, very, very rarely they do, but it is almost impossible to manufacture unless hugging a building and the Swarmer is at the extent of their lock-on range) such that unless I immediately disengage I am almost guaranteed to lose my ship.
I'm happy to lose my ship, if the other player is actually playing: losing a ship to a Swarmer is pretty hollow. I see no reason why a Swarmer should have such an advantage over both their contemporaries (Forgers) and their opponents.
Nothing Certain wrote:Pilots know about the swarms that kill them, but not about the many, many, more that don't.
Truthfully, no pilot knows about any swarms. Even with the minor improvement to rendering swarms still appear out of nowhere, or simply hit you without showing or making a noise at all.
As far as your other questions are concerned, let's look at FGs for a moment: they sacrifice anti-infantry power, having no option to carry another primary weapon unlike the Swarm with the commando; while they have great survivability, FGs reduce the already lowest manoeuvrability of the Sentinel suit further, making FGs easier to be hit, unlike Swarmers which can dance and jig.
The issue is the lack of interaction of the Swarm user: the do very little and get incredible gain. A change to make Swarmers have similar functionality but require actual ability, for example:
Possibly having a full auto mode where each missile is launched sequentially (instead of in waves) with the lock requiring continued lone of sight, compensated by damage increases and stuff.
What needs to be done is to make the swarm less simple to operate, such that skill on both sides becomes an actual factor: yes, I can immediately run away as soon as I receive the first volley and it's likely I'll survive, but that's not a fight, that's the Swarmer making 150WP and me going into cooldowns. What we need is an exchange of fires where one person can apply and maintain their skill to win the fight.
Not saying my suggested swarm change is the best idea, it's just an example, but the premise is that swarms are too effective for how little effort they require.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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danthrax martin
Immortal Guides
185
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Posted - 2014.11.23 21:38:00 -
[77] - Quote
Funny, this thread, find I. I cant help it. I play all roles and undestand the interactions between them. What I don't understand is someone who can't pilot or fit their vehicle "correctly" insisting something else is the major problem. Swarms will stay invisible for a reason: you're being hit from below and/or behind
Pro Gal 'mando, Assault, Scout
Pro Sentinel ak.0
Suicidal A/V Moron
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ImIvan
52
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Posted - 2014.11.24 02:40:00 -
[78] - Quote
I'm lost, what's wrong with swarms? I have not had a problem with them, a Python can easily dispatch swarmers, but I feel that my Incubus can't do ****. My ADS can also outrun the third volley of a swarm if I decide to flee.
My Grimses stacking armor reps doesn't have much a problem with swarms, and neither does my Myron.
So, what's wrong with swarms? I think they are in a good spot right now.
Why must you use prototypes?
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5269
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Posted - 2014.11.24 07:00:00 -
[79] - Quote
Removing profiles utterly screws pilots who run shields.
Swarms and forges instantly become dearh on a cracker to them.
Removing profiles is a bad idea. Introducing shield cracker AV that isn't solely for the lulz and balancing for THAT so that vehicles can be strong versus opposing profiles and vulnerable to their defense crackers needs to be a thing.
Bluntly AV fights are lopsided. Either you are in a vehicle dealing with utterly incompetent AV which gives you a feeling that all is right or you're dealing with atiim who knows how to set himself just so the odds of you escaping is minimal with swarms. Only a few know how to do that.
Or you're dealibg with someone like me, for whom the forge gun is second nature to the point where if running a vehicles isn't second nature to you, you're about to suck a very expensive loss.
There is very little in between.
But in between involves having laser and plasma AV that actually functions properly vs. Shields and can hit dropships. It is having proper projectile AV to hit tanks in addition to forges.
All vehicles are balanced versus the forge gun because we can't balance shields against an amarr deathbeam laser.
The lack is very teling in the meta because the plasma cannon is hideously unpopular even after the buffs because it's utility vs. Dropships is situational.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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STABBEY
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
524
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Posted - 2014.12.04 00:33:00 -
[80] - Quote
Buff swarms they suck. 
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15417
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Posted - 2014.12.04 00:48:00 -
[81] - Quote
STABBEY wrote:Buff swarms they suck.
No they actually don't.
A skilled Swarmer will throw out a potential 2025 damage per volley against armour HAV and only 1252 vs Shields.
On a normal suit with say a damage modules that's something like 1540 per volley with Prof 5 and on the Minmatar Commando its more like 1774 unmodified damage.
Perfectly reasonable damage values when you consider that the Swarm Volleys track their targets up to 400m as its on par with railgun level damage.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15417
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Posted - 2014.12.04 00:55:00 -
[82] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:STABBEY wrote:Buff swarms they suck. POOR MATHEMATICS!.
Here's the better stuff
A Minmatar Commando V, with Prof V, and Wyrkomi Swarm Launchers (1x Complex Damage Module used in my Calcs) will deal 394.7 damage per missile.
A Wyrkomi fires 4 missiles.
394.7 x 4 = 1894.6 (more than a prototype Railgun cuz logic) unmodified damage
Vs Armour = 2273.5 per volley
Vs Shields = 1515.7 per volley
There we good. Swarm Launchers are damn good when used well.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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KING CHECKMATE
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
6090
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Posted - 2014.12.04 00:56:00 -
[83] - Quote
Point 3 and 4 are VERY valid.
The other ones are just plain QQ
Amarrian Born. State Patriot.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5371
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Posted - 2014.12.04 02:12:00 -
[84] - Quote
I've got Min Mando 5, Swarms Prof 5 and Reload 5.
You have to be a pretty big homer to not think swarms are OP against dropships. With 2 damage modd you can solo most pub match ADS pilots pretty easily. If there is ANYBODY else with AV of any type out its devastating to any vehicle and any pilot.
AV is very overpowered vs vehicles but I don't believe pubs can handle strong vehicles. As much as I loathe the scout meta currently, the blaster tanks of old made me want to turn my coffee table over.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15427
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Posted - 2014.12.04 02:26:00 -
[85] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:I've got Min Mando 5, Swarms Prof 5 and Reload 5.
You have to be a pretty big homer to not think swarms are OP against dropships. With 2 damage modd you can solo most pub match ADS pilots pretty easily. If there is ANYBODY else with AV of any type out its devastating to any vehicle and any pilot.
AV is very overpowered vs vehicles but I don't believe pubs can handle strong vehicles. As much as I loathe the scout meta currently, the blaster tanks of old made me want to turn my coffee table over.
Oh come on they were only really OP in 1.7 and before that you had to be damn good at what you did to score highly even with a Blaster HAV.
One thing I don't think Tankers could handle is mobility nerfs to proper tank levels.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Mobius Wyvern
Sky-FIRE
5483
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Posted - 2014.12.04 02:26:00 -
[86] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:White-Lion wrote:As a main ads pilot, I find it difficult to do anything in a match so long as there is a swarm of any kind somewhere on the field. I am gonna try and cover a few of the problems with them and I want to see other peoples opinion on them.
1: Turn speed "nerf"
Recently in one of the hot fixes when all the AV was changed, the swarm launcher got this "nerf". I put it in quotes because in almost every instance where I thought it would be to my advantage, it wasn't. When the missiles are in flight, from what I understand, they fly toward the location you are at at the time, and then repeating that process every few short seconds. The "nerf" cause the missiles to be more likely to fly around any object or terrain that the pilot would use as cover to prevent damage. This means on the downside they have a long flight path, but it doesn't matter cause it'll still go around the object most of the time or catch up to its target by the time he gets safe.
2: lock speed and lock box
After dying a few times from swarms I gave in, I skilled in to swarms and a commando just to see what it is like on the other end of the gun. I was astonished to see that my lock box took up almost half the screen and would auto lock on to anything that was in the box. After I found my target, which would usually be a poor unsuspecting ads, it would take just about 3 seconds to get a lock on and fire, which I think is understandable. But what really got me was the fact that I could get the second lock on before first one hit just about every time, which usually meant I could get the third lock in before they had time to process the fact they were getting shot. Maybe an increased time in between shots?
3. Invisible missiles
I know MANY people have mentioned this before but it is still something that needs to be changed ASAP. During my adventures with the swarm launcher, it occurred to me that most of the time, even if directly under them, the ads wouldn't come back to target his threat after flying away to regenerate some Hp. I figured he either didn't see me as a threat or something like that. But a majority of the times when I was shooting at something like the incubus, something that could usually survive all three rounds of a clip, would try and look for me but due to what I presumed to be the invisible swarm bug, it was near impossible to find me.
4. Rendering
This isn't a bug that only affects swarm infantry, I usually saw, or didn't see I should say, all infantry. When swooping in to fight av infantry who would usually be in one spot up high, i was never able to render their clone by the time I was above them. This meant I would be exposing my dropship to the Av for a longer period of time, especially because after swooping in like a majestic eagle, I would either have to do a slow turn-around or fly away and hope they render earlier next time.
5. Damage application
I didn't get the honor of skilling in to the infamous ads slayer (minmatar commando) but I got a glimpse of it. It's ability to stack not only two complex damage mods, but an explosive AND reload bonus native to the suit, and the swarm launcher prof (I'm not sure if that increases damage or not) plus it can also have a second light weapon such as a mass driver that will get all it's other bonuses to be used against infantry. Not only will it make it almost impossible to work against an ads, but it will decimate LAVs and make tanks run for their lives. I think it needs a bonus like this, but not to this extent of destruct to EVERTHING. I don't know the actual numbers but I know this has the capability to kill any ads within its 3 shots.
I hope this can help balance the battle field in someway. I'd like to hear some other opinions on the subject so leave a reply. 1. they are soo nerfed i gotta be like 10m away from a HAV or else they just seem to orbit the HAV for a while cause they cannot turn hard enough to impact. 2.lockspeed needs to be fast or you lose damage application this can easly be seen on tripple rep maddies when you reload and see all the hp you damaged rep back up.. lock box however can be quite small but also useing a swarm at the time leaves you vulnerable to scout assassinations and snipers and other infantry. 3+4 basically same whine, it stems from lag.. you could turn your graphics down to medium but you may still get invisa-missiles due to lag and time taken to render them, however its nowhere as bad as it used to be. 5.its not the fact minmando can use a whole 2 complex damage mods but the fact it gets like 5% explosive damage per level so thats 25% at 5 not sure if suit dmg bonus effects stacking but i think suit+1 complex =31% and then the next one may only give 4% instead of 6% because of stacking penalties so that would be 35% damage... however im happy with this because commando are slow and fat(large hitbox) and there is the SHORT 175m lock range. you obviously didnt get the memo..
all ads pilots worth their salt now fly python + shield hardeners to get 80% + resist to swarms so they can just shrug off the swarms as they blap the Swarm users, so yes if you skilled incubus your S.O.L. even if you fit double hardners... you would be -20% on armor +1 hard = 20% resist then stacking penalties for second i assume so that is +35% resist for a 2nd.. maybe +40% for a third
How many times are we going to have to explain the stacking penalty?
Running two Hardeners does NOT give you an 80% resistance to damage. The Hardeners only effect the percentage that they themselves do not influence, meaning that each successive hardener gives you significantly less "bonus HP".
Running 2 40% Hardeners with stacking penalty on a vehicle without that much HP to begin with is not nearly as powerful as you seem to think. Running a fit like that will basically allow you to survive if you turn and run as fast as you can.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
14107
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Posted - 2014.12.04 03:08:00 -
[87] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:I've got Min Mando 5, Swarms Prof 5 and Reload 5.
You have to be a pretty big homer to not think swarms are OP against dropships. With 2 damage modd you can solo most pub match ADS pilots pretty easily. If there is ANYBODY else with AV of any type out its devastating to any vehicle and any pilot.
Or someone who knows what they're talking about.
Any ADS that's piloted with even the slightest lick of comment sense can escape 175m in a period of 5.37s, which is how long it takes to fire 3 volleys (and that's w/o travel time, mind you).
Though given how most Pilots who restrict themselves to Public Contracts are terrible, I do believe your statement. It means absolutely nothing and isn't a justification for anything, but I believe you.
I see no problems with two experienced AVers being "devastating to any vehicle and any pilot".
Thor Odinson42 wrote:AV is very overpowered vs vehicles but I don't believe pubs can handle strong vehicles. As much as I loathe the scout meta currently, the blaster tanks of old made me want to turn my coffee table over.
Overpowered against what? LAVs?
Any vehicle in DUST besides the Soma can be survive against any and all AVers provided that you're better at it than the AVer and your fit isn't garbage. Though the Madrugar does struggle against AVers with SLs, but that's the price to pay for using Armor against Explosives.
---
PS:
I do know however, that you also happen to be a PC Player, correct? How about you and I go into a PC against people who aren't scrubs and see how OP those Swarms of yours are?
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15435
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Posted - 2014.12.04 03:11:00 -
[88] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I've got Min Mando 5, Swarms Prof 5 and Reload 5.
You have to be a pretty big homer to not think swarms are OP against dropships. With 2 damage modd you can solo most pub match ADS pilots pretty easily. If there is ANYBODY else with AV of any type out its devastating to any vehicle and any pilot. Or someone who knows what they're talking about. Any ADS that's piloted with even the slightest lick of comment sense can escape 175m in a period of 5.37s, which is how long it takes to fire 3 volleys (and that's w/o travel time, mind you). Though given how most Pilots who restrict themselves to Public Contracts are terrible, I do believe your statement. It means absolutely nothing and isn't a justification for anything, but I believe you. I see no problems with two experienced AVers being "devastating to any vehicle and any pilot". Thor Odinson42 wrote:AV is very overpowered vs vehicles but I don't believe pubs can handle strong vehicles. As much as I loathe the scout meta currently, the blaster tanks of old made me want to turn my coffee table over. Overpowered against what? LAVs? Any vehicle in DUST besides the Soma can be survive against any and all AVers provided that you're better at it than the AVer and your fit isn't garbage. Though the Madrugar does struggle against AVers with SLs, but that's the price to pay for using Armor against Explosives. --- PS: I do know however, that you also happen to be a PC Player, correct? How about you and I go into a PC against people who aren't scrubs and see how OP those Swarms of yours are?
Maddy and Soma roughly have the same EHP values and fitting capacity. Might as well combine the two since armour HAV these days are only used by the criminally insane and extremely masochistic.
TL;DR please get Rattati to let me fix armour HAV!
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5372
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Posted - 2014.12.04 03:54:00 -
[89] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I've got Min Mando 5, Swarms Prof 5 and Reload 5.
You have to be a pretty big homer to not think swarms are OP against dropships. With 2 damage modd you can solo most pub match ADS pilots pretty easily. If there is ANYBODY else with AV of any type out its devastating to any vehicle and any pilot. Or someone who knows what they're talking about. Any ADS that's piloted with even the slightest lick of comment sense can escape 175m in a period of 5.37s, which is how long it takes to fire 3 volleys (and that's w/o travel time, mind you). Though given how most Pilots who restrict themselves to Public Contracts are terrible, I do believe your statement. It means absolutely nothing and isn't a justification for anything, but I believe you. I see no problems with two experienced AVers being "devastating to any vehicle and any pilot". Thor Odinson42 wrote:AV is very overpowered vs vehicles but I don't believe pubs can handle strong vehicles. As much as I loathe the scout meta currently, the blaster tanks of old made me want to turn my coffee table over. Overpowered against what? LAVs? Any vehicle in DUST besides the Soma can be survive against any and all AVers provided that you're better at it than the AVer and your fit isn't garbage. Though the Madrugar does struggle against AVers with SLs, but that's the price to pay for using Armor against Explosives. --- PS: I do know however, that you also happen to be a PC Player, correct? How about you and I go into a PC against people who aren't scrubs and see how OP those Swarms of yours are?
We could have that talk about all kinds of things. Even at their most OP vehicles were balanced in a PC setting.
The lack of teamwork and unwillingness to spend ISK to win pub matches is an epidemic in Dust.
All I know is that you have to be pretty good with an ADS to kill anyone because of how effective swarms are. Personally I have a hard time seeing targets with my Python, by the time I derp myself into position for some steady shots I'm lucky to get two shots off before I have to bail.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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