My roomate is proto Minmando but he finds that the range on the swarms isn't far enough, it has problems locking on when the dropship is near enemy buildings (cru, supply depot, etc) and that swarms are just too easy to avoid.

I think it is silly that you cant use swarms to destory a neutral building.

python or incubus?

cause atm python is the only one capable of standing up to swarms with innate resistance to explosive on shields +20% then throw on a hardener 80% and maybe a second one for good measure 95% resist! to swarms!

rail ads can stay out above 175m and still get kills if your accurate enough

I burn at least one dropship every match and drop with swarms to try to keep enemy pilots off of my uplinks. Swarms will not kill me unless I let them period. Swarms are useless to kill most dropships check your fitting because it takes at least 4 shots on a ads to kill it without a hardener. Even then the only ds downs I get are from a hard landing then swarming before they shoot me to death. Lock on range increase would go a long way to help av no pun intended and I would be fine with a slightly smaller box as a trade off.

I've popped a number of vehicles using Rail Turrets; you have to lead 'em a 'bit. Also, swarm range of 175m should be extended, but not until the issues behind "invisible swarms" are resolved.

Please stop posting ridiculous numbers for your arguments.
Double hardener fits are extremely effective against Swarms, as they should be, but as White Lion has pointed out, they have the downside (a completely reasonable downside) of a hefty cooldown and intense vulnerability during such cooldown.


This is a truly stupid statement.

The Swarm lock-on of 175m is perfectly fine: you can engage targets that are somewhat far away, and any that stray into your immediate (100-120m radius) area can be engaged without concern. Any longer than this and we return to 1.6 and earlier, where we had 400m lock-on Swarmers covering every objective on the map from the redline - in case you don't remember, it was broken as balls.

Swarms have every advantage possible for an AV weapon: range enough to reach any vehicle that is actively engaged in the battle (ie, anything but redline railguns essentially); power enough to cause every vehicle to be concerned (even double hardener fits have to worry, because of the prevalence of Swarms and the short duration of the hardeners); and the complete ease of use provided by lock-on on weaponry, especially when paired with short lock-on times and fast travel speed.

The only balancing factor for Swarms currently is that shield vehicles are inherently resistant to them. And currently, armour vehicles are getting totally shafted by all forms of AV while AVers (primarily Swarmers) complain that shield vehicles are too tough when kitted out to defend against anti-armour AV weapons.

Fun thought experiment: Why are swarms virtually never used in PC.

OK a little background on me first ive been playing since closed beta and the swarm and mass driver were the first things i have spec. into, using on on a min logi ( used for av support and hacking speed). I have always played this game its practically the only game that i play currently, i also use the proto minmando so i can reduce one of the biggest downs sides of the swarm launcher its reload time ( at least it is to me). recently i have speced into Drop ships and i have noticed one thing, The ADS are NOT ment to stay in a hot zone for to long i find i do best when i strafe or when i have ground support, there are times when i get caught off guard or i get really cunty and go " screw these people i can take them on" just to be shot down. where as the STD DS are ment to absorb damage i can actually sit for a bit and take swarm after swarm after swarm but then again i am unable to shoot back and HAVE to rely on my squad to take the AV out ( i still do every thing i can to avoid rail units) i can take about 2-3 forge gun rounds before i have to bugg out.

ok and now to address your supposed issues
but there is one thins what ADS or DS do you use if i had to place a bet it would be on a DS, but any ways

1.I have noticed when i swarm that there are times when they will fly into the building while trying to get around as a swarmer, remember when they nerfed the swarm launcher they also nerfed the rail rifle but with 1.9 thoes changes changes got erased. now if they fixed it and changed it back or not i do not know.
As a pilot if i am allowed to call my self that, i will notice that i tend to loose swarms as soon as i fly around a building other times i can fly across the map hide behind something and still get pelted by swarms
most of the time its they fly into objects rather than go around buildings.
2. The lock on time us fine there is a 3 second lock on time plus a 2 second re-lock time, that is plenty of time to figure out hey i should GTFO most people engage vehicles around the 100m range i try to engage within 75-20m range so there is less travel time and i can choose when would be the optimal time to attack now even if you say that the lock is only 3 seconds you you mean that you cant fly out of the 175 range within 9 seconds? and every pilot has a AB. the lock on box is a bit big but then again it can only target vehicles but then again i didnt make the game

3+4. there has always been a issue with invs-o missiles and pilots not rendering correctly but its the same with the drop ships as well there have been times when i can hear the drop ship but cant find it then ill start to get pelted then still cant find it so i htink its on both ends with the rendering issue, but i can agree that the rendering issue is bad for the pilot

5. LOL really i have seen pythons incubus take swarm after swarm pop on sheild recharger and fly away, i can do it with my myron, with no problem shielded vehicles are the bane of swarm users

I've seen a grand total of one commando in PC in the past couple of months, and Im pretty sure he was an idiot because he was wandering around in the open not paying attention.

What Im trying to say here is AV sucks ass, and if you're honestly complaining about AV like its worth anything, you need to apply a little thought to how you use your vehicles, because its REALLY easy to avoid being killed.

Swarms actually are insanely powerful with effortless damage application, but PC is mostly about infantry holding points. You put on the bare minimum AV, and use AV that can also fight infantry

Thats it

I still think swarms are pretty ****, and I think the fact that the only viable swarm platform that everyone points to being one specific suit with some pretty crazy bonuses is not a contradiction that swarms suck, its a confirmation.

We never talk about some specific heavy to run forge guns with, or some special scout that makes the shotgun rule. These weapons are largely the same over all suits, and they are all good. The only thing thats even remotely similar are some of the rifle weapons (combat rifle/scrambler especially) which are slightly better on their races' assault suit, but they are still GOOD weapons on every other suit. I dont think the swarm launcher is like that, its just bad, and one specific suit with massive reload and damage bonuses makes it usable.

I think that they should just remove efficiency and inefficiency until they decide to finally put the rest of the weapons in game

I dont care if "because EVE", this is what we have NOW, and its unbalanced

I revendicate the possibility to tie Proximity Explosives to weather ballons to set aerial minefields!

Honestly, OP.....I personally feel like ADS should be worried about AV. I feel like its balanced perfectly.

You ADS pilots want to sit in the sky and be totally untouchable while you rain down missiles upon infantry and you want a fair shake. However, that in of itself is hardly a fair shake. Boots on the ground where its a 50/50 shot each time is much more fair.

So yes, AV SHOULD be over powered....it SHOULD be very hard to ADS if you plan to sit nestled in your little piece of the sky and rack up kills for your KDR.

Fly away little birdie, fly away :D

Maybe its just that I have a different definition of AV. I want AV to actually be able to kill a vehicle even if its pilot isnt a ******.