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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
966
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Posted - 2014.11.16 17:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:cause atm python is the only one capable of standing up to swarms with innate resistance to explosive on shields +20% then throw on a hardener 80% and maybe a second one for good measure 95% resist! to swarms!
That's not how resistances work.
Let's assume a swarm missile does 100 damage, for ease of the example.
The first resistance is applied (-20% explosive profile): swarm does 80 damage
The hardener is applied (-40%) to the remaining value: so 80 x 0.6 = 48
The second hardener (-34.4%: 40 x0.86, stacking penalty): so 48 x 0.65.6 = 31.488 (31.5)
31.5 damage is two hardeners and native resistance to the explosive profile giving 68.5% resistance.
Wiyrkomis deal 312 (389.33 MinCom 5 w/ 2 CxDMods) per shot, which, with the 68.5% reduction deals 98.28 (122.64) damage per missile: the first will not break shield regen threshold (102) whereas the MinCom will.
Please stop posting ridiculous numbers for your arguments.
Double hardener fits are extremely effective against Swarms, as they should be, but as White Lion has pointed out, they have the downside (a completely reasonable downside) of a hefty cooldown and intense vulnerability during such cooldown.
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:rail ads can stay out above 175m and still get kills if your accurate enough
This is a truly stupid statement.
Firstly, staying at that altitude is not nearly as easy as you seem to make out: we have no indicators of height besides distance to objectives and target information readouts.
Second, staying steady at such height is difficult due to the lack of reference points.
Thirdly, targets at that height are absolutely miniscule, if rendered at all: hitting a target with a railgun at 50m is difficult, but sitting up at 175m+ is nigh impossible for a gunner, let alone the pilot.
Finally, hovering up there, attempting to snipe at infantry is an enormous waste of time: if you want to kill infantry from an ADS the missile is infinitely more useful and even if you can hit one of two mercs, what's the point? You're only killing, which is rarely useful on its own.
The Swarm lock-on of 175m is perfectly fine: you can engage targets that are somewhat far away, and any that stray into your immediate (100-120m radius) area can be engaged without concern. Any longer than this and we return to 1.6 and earlier, where we had 400m lock-on Swarmers covering every objective on the map from the redline - in case you don't remember, it was broken as balls.
Swarms have every advantage possible for an AV weapon: range enough to reach any vehicle that is actively engaged in the battle (ie, anything but redline railguns essentially); power enough to cause every vehicle to be concerned (even double hardener fits have to worry, because of the prevalence of Swarms and the short duration of the hardeners); and the complete ease of use provided by lock-on on weaponry, especially when paired with short lock-on times and fast travel speed.
The only balancing factor for Swarms currently is that shield vehicles are inherently resistant to them. And currently, armour vehicles are getting totally shafted by all forms of AV while AVers (primarily Swarmers) complain that shield vehicles are too tough when kitted out to defend against anti-armour AV weapons.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
971
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Posted - 2014.11.16 18:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:White-Lion wrote:Some words Fun thought experiment: Why are swarms virtually never used in PC.
Because reasons? Honestly I don't know: three commandos in a squad make a perfectly legit point holder capable of murdering any vehicle...but PC, as the top end, ultra competitive game mode, is chock full of shotgun scouts and sentinels. Commandos aren't great against a field full of that.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
997
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Posted - 2014.11.23 19:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
ghy6tr4 wrote:I personally feel like ADS should be worried about AV. I feel like its balanced perfectly.
[...]
So yes, AV SHOULD be over powered....it SHOULD be very hard to ADS if you plan to sit nestled in your little piece of the sky and rack up kills for your KDR.
ADS already is worried about AV: the only AV that is ineffective against an adsnis the Plasma Cannon, because of the arc/travel speed. An ADS has to worry about AV every moment - the moment AV is detected basically gives you a 2 or 3 second window to deal with it, die, or run away.
AV should most definitely not be overpowered. Being overpowered would mean vehicles would be worth less a sort of like pre-1.7.
ghy6tr4 wrote:You ADS pilots want to sit in the sky and be totally untouchable while you rain down missiles upon infantry and you want a fair shake. However, that in of itself is hardly a fair shake. Boots on the ground where its a 50/50 shot each time is much more fair.
No, the majority do not want that and it is idiot AV players like you who talk rubbish. The current imbalance in AV is centred around one thing: the complete ease of use of the most effective AV weapon; Swarm Launchers.
Compared to the next best infantry AV weapon, the Forge Gun, the swarm is leaps and bounds ahead:
- no aiming necessary: your lock-on box takes up 70% of the screen
- almost guaranteed application: against an ADS there is an incredibly high likelihood of landing every volley you release.
- rapid-fire: compared to the FG, you fire almost twice as fast as the AFG and against an ADS you maintain the buffeting impulse effects...
- due to the knock back, an ADS attempting to engage has an extremely limited window due to being thrown about.
- being a light weapon to the FG's heavy makes the swarm much more flexible: fast on a scout or assault; supported with additional logi equipment; or extremely versatile with a commando.
I respect Forge Gunners and have had several good willed conversations with Forgers who've shot me down, and I respect them because they require skill and sacrifice. A Swarmer has almost every advantage over the Forger except for a somewhat better damage profile. Against a Swarmer I do not feel I have an opportunity to outmanoeuvre them because swarms never miss (well, very, very rarely they do, but it is almost impossible to manufacture unless hugging a building and the Swarmer is at the extent of their lock-on range) such that unless I immediately disengage I am almost guaranteed to lose my ship.
I'm happy to lose my ship, if the other player is actually playing: losing a ship to a Swarmer is pretty hollow. I see no reason why a Swarmer should have such an advantage over both their contemporaries (Forgers) and their opponents.
Nothing Certain wrote:Pilots know about the swarms that kill them, but not about the many, many, more that don't.
Truthfully, no pilot knows about any swarms. Even with the minor improvement to rendering swarms still appear out of nowhere, or simply hit you without showing or making a noise at all.
As far as your other questions are concerned, let's look at FGs for a moment: they sacrifice anti-infantry power, having no option to carry another primary weapon unlike the Swarm with the commando; while they have great survivability, FGs reduce the already lowest manoeuvrability of the Sentinel suit further, making FGs easier to be hit, unlike Swarmers which can dance and jig.
The issue is the lack of interaction of the Swarm user: the do very little and get incredible gain. A change to make Swarmers have similar functionality but require actual ability, for example:
Possibly having a full auto mode where each missile is launched sequentially (instead of in waves) with the lock requiring continued lone of sight, compensated by damage increases and stuff.
What needs to be done is to make the swarm less simple to operate, such that skill on both sides becomes an actual factor: yes, I can immediately run away as soon as I receive the first volley and it's likely I'll survive, but that's not a fight, that's the Swarmer making 150WP and me going into cooldowns. What we need is an exchange of fires where one person can apply and maintain their skill to win the fight.
Not saying my suggested swarm change is the best idea, it's just an example, but the premise is that swarms are too effective for how little effort they require.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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