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Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 857	Posted - 2014.11.08 08:23:00 - [1] - Quote a number of things upset me.. - New dot for sniper rifle is too tiny (you lose sight of it on white backgrounds) hurts target acquisition on moving targets, too small to tell you're on target by direct line of sight color change. I would like to propose changing it back to the original dot. -Charge sniper rifle noise is ultra annoying, headache inducing, this never got "fixed" because nobody with influence ever cared or sniped for that matter. -Sniper rifle range on some of the larger maps created scenarios where I could see enemies that I could not shoot. i.e. 6 tower map.. from the tower top closest my MCC to the middle tower top across the center of the map overlooking the domination objective, was out of range of each other. 350m+ away. Stupid. -Headshot damage is way too high on sniper rifles, eliminating the whole "gun game" / "gun play" between sniper on sniper. If someone decides to counter snipe you after you kill them on the ground, they can come back from any direction and line up a headshot. In the past it took more than 1 bullet to kill a sniper, allowing for the one being shot to have a small window to move, possibly make it to cover and return fire. The better sniper would win out usually. THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. My proposed changes wouldn't have created this zero skill scenario. (Good job IWS) See this link! -The removal of the old Charge Sniper Rifle from the game. High damage body shots with enough bullets in the clip to allow you to miss a shot without having the huge penalty of reloading and reacquiring your target + stabilization time. You added the "executioner" and the "wanna be quickscoping tactical" but at the cost of removing the most solid sniper rifle from the game. !@#% me. Nobody asked for those two additional sniper rifle types at the cost of removing the Charge. I know you do what you want, I also know you listen from time to time. My proposed changes weren't complicated, and certainly not drastic. The game state for a sniper I feel is as awful as it has ever been. Since I know you like solutions, I suggest going back to Charlie sniper rifles / ranges / damage and increase the base damage and headshot damage each slightly. Instead of creating new gun types that aren't even good enough for PC matches. The 5 round clip Charge was at best a bad Thale's. Now there is seriously nothing close. You went all in on making the sniper rifle a "precision / lucky bullet weapon" and it's horrible (in my humble opinion). I wish things were different, and above all I wish I found this game more appealing. I cannot recreate the fluidity and finesse of my Dust 514 sniping videos in the current game state. (someone at CCP please watch one) I'm hating sniping, and therefore Dust 514. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4670	Posted - 2014.11.08 08:35:00 - [2] - Quote So you have no problem with the fact that you can oneshot everyone else... But if they oneshot you it's unfair. Get out. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 857	Posted - 2014.11.08 08:46:00 - [3] - Quote Not sure what you mean? or how you got that from what I said. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4670	Posted - 2014.11.08 08:53:00 - [4] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Not sure what you mean? or how you got that from what I said. At no point did you say you had a problem with killing any other player on the field with a headshot. And bluntly retaliation vs. Snipers should be a thing. Since they were brought closer to retaliation range (to everyone who wanted to remain untouchable DIAF) snipers needed better killing power or they would have become useless. What this means is you are now more vulnerable to me getting mad at your existence and terminating your existence in retaliation for costing me an expensive fit or keeping me from accomplishing objectives. Snipers have enjoyed easy and risk free kills unless a counter sniper brought out a thale to retaliate. This is no longer the case and the change is welcome. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 737	Posted - 2014.11.08 08:55:00 - [5] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: So you have no problem with the fact that you can oneshot everyone else... But if they oneshot you it's unfair. Get out. I don't often respond like this. But you're stupid. How did you come up with that response from symbs original post? The slow blade penetrates the shield.
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 857	Posted - 2014.11.08 09:03:00 - [6] - Quote I never said I want to kill every suit in the game with a headshot. If anything it's been said that a heavy should be able to sustain 1 headshot, and die to a follow up bodyshot from a charge sniper rifle. Meaning it would likely take 1 headshot and 2 bodyshots from a standard sniper rifle SEE MY PROPOSED CHANGES (the ones given before the current build) I suppose I should break it down for you some more. Snipers have had many hard counters in the past and more now, including the Militia Sniper Rifle more than ever. In the past the Tactical Sniper Rifle was used as the best choice to counter snipe another sniper.. zero recoil double-triple headshot with increased zoom. Now every sniper rifle fills this same role, but even better. You assumed I didn't speak up, but why should I when it's simply because you haven't followed the discussion for long enough. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Protocake JR USA Caucasians 1558	Posted - 2014.11.08 09:03:00 - [7] - Quote Perhaps snipers shouldn't sit in one spot all match. Sniping should require repositioning, if you've been discovered. Pitching a tent on top of a tower is what is ruining this game.
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 857	Posted - 2014.11.08 09:06:00 - [8] - Quote My forge gunner camps rooftops like a boss.. my alternate self is highly offended by your remark. also.. SNIPER/SWARMS combo at the cost of close range defense I feel negates your argument for "maybe snipers should move if discovered". Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property 894	Posted - 2014.11.08 09:18:00 - [9] - Quote I've had the most fun I've ever had with a sniper rifle Symb. At least in this game... I personally like the way a sniper rifle works now. It allows a more... mobile... sniping play style. I've never been for all the hiding in the hills or on some tower picking off the weak. I can find an area to settle down for a few shots, kill 1-2 people. Then relocate entirely. I'll usually find some defilade to snipe from. A rock. A LAV. A small mound of dirt. Whatever. Yeah, you can't sit in one place for too long without someone in a Starter Sniper popping you, but that's what makes it fun. Hell, just two days ago, I was sniping from the dead center of the map, from the ground too! I had my eyes on a fine trophy as well. A Thales was just sitting right on top of the enemy MCC. I popped him in the head. He's dead now. Swag-suit4lyfe!
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 857	Posted - 2014.11.08 09:19:00 - [10] - Quote What's changed for you to make it better? I personally prefer precision point defense, and overwatch to hit and run sniper game play. In point defense random skirting the edge of the map kills don't seem to matter as much. And by not being on a perch you may avoid attack drop ships, suicide drop ships with an HMG inside, counter snipers, orbitals, and the like.. but you become susceptible to cloaked shot gun scouts, and LAV with a HMG inside hit and runs. Not my idea of fun either. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)

Lloyd Orfay SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 184	Posted - 2014.11.08 09:21:00 - [11] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: a number of things upset me.. - New dot for sniper rifle is too tiny (you lose sight of it on white backgrounds) hurts target acquisition on moving targets, too small to tell you're on target by direct line of sight color change. I would like to propose changing it back to the original dot. -Charge sniper rifle noise is ultra annoying, headache inducing, this never got "fixed" because nobody with influence ever cared or sniped for that matter. -Sniper rifle range on some of the larger maps created scenarios where I could see enemies that I could not shoot. i.e. 6 tower map.. from the tower top closest my MCC to the middle tower top across the center of the map overlooking the domination objective, was out of range of each other. 350m+ away. Stupid. -Headshot damage is way too high on sniper rifles, eliminating the whole "gun game" / "gun play" between sniper on sniper. If someone decides to counter snipe you after you kill them on the ground, they can come back from any direction and line up a headshot. In the past it took more than 1 bullet to kill a sniper, allowing for the one being shot to have a small window to move, possibly make it to cover and return fire. The better sniper would win out usually. THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. My proposed changes wouldn't have created this zero skill scenario. (Good job IWS) See this link! -The removal of the old Charge Sniper Rifle from the game. High damage body shots with enough bullets in the clip to allow you to miss a shot without having the huge penalty of reloading and reacquiring your target + stabilization time. You added the "executioner" and the "wanna be quickscoping tactical" but at the cost of removing the most solid sniper rifle from the game. !@#% me. Nobody asked for those two additional sniper rifle types at the cost of removing the Charge. I know you do what you want, I also know you listen from time to time. My proposed changes weren't complicated, and certainly not drastic. The game state for a sniper I feel is as awful as it has ever been. Since I know you like solutions, I suggest going back to Charlie sniper rifles / ranges / damage and increase the base damage and headshot damage each slightly. Instead of creating new gun types that aren't even good enough for PC matches. The 5 round clip Charge was at best a bad Thale's. Now there is seriously nothing close. You went all in on making the sniper rifle a "precision / lucky bullet weapon" and it's horrible (in my humble opinion). I wish things were different, and above all I wish I found this game more appealing. I cannot recreate the fluidity and finesse of my Dust 514 sniping videos in the current game state. (someone at CCP please watch one) I'm hating sniping, and therefore Dust 514. As long as it messes up sniper gameplay it's a good thing. Snipers have screwed this game for long enough, and same for scouts.
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 857	Posted - 2014.11.08 09:23:00 - [12] - Quote Ahh the generic "I hate all snipers forever and ever" bit.. I can't help but bask in your glorious hatred. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property 895	Posted - 2014.11.08 09:30:00 - [13] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: What's changed for you to make it better? I personally prefer precision point defense, and overwatch to hit and run sniper game play. In point defense random skirting the edge of the map kills don't seem to matter as much. And by not being on a perch you may avoid attack drop ships, suicide drop ships with an HMG inside, counter snipers, orbitals, and the like.. but you become susceptible to cloaked shot gun scouts, and LAV with a HMG inside hit and runs. Not my idea of fun either. Its better for more of an Assassination style of gameplay. Targeting problematic individuals. Getting rid of rooftopers and other snipers in particular. I like the headshots. Swag-suit4lyfe!
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 857	Posted - 2014.11.08 09:33:00 - [14] - Quote It's surely easier to kill stationary targets.. and Unless they're trying to kill infantry, a forge gunner never ever has to stand still I feel that snipers suffer the most from what should have been a buff. it's a "Silver Bullet" to snipers and a "Lucky Bullet" to anyone else. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2366	Posted - 2014.11.08 09:43:00 - [15] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Not sure what you mean? or how you got that from what I said. Snipers can't generally just drop right back into the action like most infantry can. It takes time to call in a drop ship, fly to one of several decent sniping locations, recall said dropship and figure out where to focus. Gun Game / Cover used to mean something to a sniper. No longer is this the case, you might as well be somewhere super obvious, because the moment someone decides to counter snipe you, there's nothing you can do about it. And right there is the problem with most snipers. They want to sit way way back way way up high. Learn to move, learn map positions, find choke points and alleyways where infantry are coming at you or away from you. So many dust snipers are lol worthy and spineless. Instead of usign a heavy suit or a commando suit, try using that sniper on a scout suit and be mobile. I sympathise that you guys lost range but you (as a general and as a whole) ruined that for yourselves by stashing way back in the redline. Times have changed, learn to adapt as the sniper rifles are powerful beasts. Now if you have issues with the reticles, well that is a matter of opinion and I support your wish to have what feels most comfortable. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Protocake JR USA Caucasians 1559	Posted - 2014.11.08 09:45:00 - [16] - Quote Here is what makes sense to me: If you decide to find a nice perch, you gain a line of sight advantage, a big one. The downside is, you become predicable. Draw enough attention to yourself and you'll have people wanting to take you out. Headshots make your predictability matter. Oherwise you just move backwards 5 meters, wait for health & ammo to replenish and continue the cycle until all the starter fits are dead. Sniping shouldn't be as safe as it was. There must be meaningful engagements between rooftoppers and the people below.
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 857	Posted - 2014.11.08 09:50:00 - [17] - Quote I'm a scout ambush sniper from open beta. Let's not go where you just went with this. I'll happily acknowledge that there can be many ways to use the sniper rifle. I know for a fact though that some ways are better and more effective than others. The most useful a sniper can be in PC is rooftop clearing / point defense. I will almost always think less of any other sniper play style in competitive terms. In public matches however run whatever you have the most fun with, but I never found scout sniping comparable to perch sniping. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4672	Posted - 2014.11.08 09:54:00 - [18] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: It takes time to call in a drop ship, fly to one of several decent sniping locations, recall said dropship and figure out where to focus. If you were a forge gunner like me and used this as an argument with the expectation that it be considered valid I would lambast you without restraint or mercy. Imagine the above with just a terminology change to accommodate the fact that you're not to color it. I have no respect for this playstyle and rooftop camping obviates the nees for "Gun Game" by taking you out of retaliation reach. Get out. Take the FGers who think this is the best way to play wih you. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 858	Posted - 2014.11.08 10:02:00 - [19] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: Here is what makes sense to me: If you decide to find a nice perch, you gain a line of sight advantage, a big one. The downside is, you become predicable. Draw enough attention to yourself and you'll have people wanting to take you out. Headshots make your predictability matter. Oherwise you just move backwards 5 meters, wait for health & ammo to replenish and continue the cycle until all the starter fits are dead. Sniping shouldn't be as safe as it was. There must be meaningful engagements between rooftoppers and the people below. Constantly being harassed by attack drop ships.. (with new and improved isk costs) + (increased skill point weekly caps to get there faster) was a huge downside to perch sniping. It wasn't safe if they wanted you dead, not even close. I have videos of being harassed through an entire matches by drop drops, simply because I refused to snipe from the red line, but didn't want to settle for sniping insignificant enemy players from the ground on the outskirts. The Tactical Sniper Rifle was the gun that could dispatch a rooftop sniper with ease. Followed by a Forge Gun / Thale's. Now all sniper rifles fill this role. It's something I don't think was anticipated or intended so I find it hard to give credit to anyone arguing in favor of the over the top head shot damage buff to snipers. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Protocake JR USA Caucasians 1559	Posted - 2014.11.08 10:15:00 - [20] - Quote The fact that, in competitive matches, perch sniping was the only viable means of sniping is probably an indicator that sniper mechanics are broken/imbalanced. So it doesn't matter what you used to do, are doing and what you're going to do because bad mechanics are bad mechanics. Just because you enjoyed it doesn't make it right. It's a one-way street of engagement that required dropships or an OB to effectively counter.

Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 858	Posted - 2014.11.08 10:18:00 - [21] - Quote Breakin Stuff.. Sniper vs Sniper (gun game) is a thing. Welcome to Dust 514 for the past several years. You want instant gratification? Dust 514 may not be the game for you! (when someone is really far away from you and not moving, but you wish to interact with said player.. guess what you have to do?) Snipers have been nerfed time after time since launch. Can you not acknowledge this? The role has now been reduced and simplified into something less than it was before. 600m range was about the only thing that separated a sniper rifle from a forge gun. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 858	Posted - 2014.11.08 10:23:00 - [22] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: The fact that, in competitive matches, perch sniping was the only viable means of sniping is probably an indicator that sniper mechanics are broken/imbalanced. So it doesn't matter what you used to do, are doing and what you're going to do because bad mechanics are bad mechanics. Just because you enjoyed it doesn't make it right. It's a one-way street of engagement that required dropships or an OB to effectively counter. or another enemy sniper You do realize the sniper made it to the perch without being shot down first.. (but was probably seen / called out) If it takes me a drop ship to get somewhere, how is it not fair that it requires you a drop ship to come and get me? (because once there I can hit you, but you can't hit me? maybe you should prioritize counter sniper tactics a little more than the typical zero most people choose to employ. If a scout with a shotgun, or a heavy with an HMG can't hit it from the ground, surely it's overpowered and broken) Attack drop ships with scanners are plentiful in PC matches, at least 2 sometimes even 3 are fielded at any given time by just one team. I don't think I've ever been so good at this game that I can avoid losing a Thale's should the enemy team want to cost me one. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 858	Posted - 2014.11.08 10:30:00 - [23] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: The fact that, in competitive matches, perch sniping was the only viable means of sniping is probably an indicator that sniper mechanics are broken/imbalanced. So it doesn't matter what you used to do, are doing and what you're going to do because bad mechanics are bad mechanics. Just because you enjoyed it doesn't make it right. It's a one-way street of engagement that required dropships or an OB to effectively counter. Sniping is about having a clear view of your surroundings, why would a ground sniper ever do any better than someone who can acquire more targets up high? They simply shouldn't be able to match the kill counts because they cover less ground at any given time. It's an ineffective way to use the gun, albeit fun. It shouldn't be considered as some viable alternative though. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Midas Fool Prophets of the Velocirapture 525	Posted - 2014.11.08 10:36:00 - [24] - Quote I was going to write an extremely condescending and rude rebuttal to your post, but having watched your videos I changed my mind. You clearly are not in need of the usual "get good". The only complaint I feel is unwarranted in some way is being counter-sniped. I don't think snipers get to complain about being their own hard counter. I personally think sniping is in the best place it has ever been. Sufficiently lethal, but still requiring some semblance of skill and participation. To be fair, I don't think sniping will (or should) ever have a strong place in PC. It is far too specialized. The new Tactical is my dream weapon. I happen to love quickscoping. I don't understand the stigma against it. I personally think the Charge has always been the worst variant. Ishukone has always been the best for the job. [Ironically generic forum signature here]
shaman oga The Dunwich Horror 3069	Posted - 2014.11.08 10:37:00 - [25] - Quote I agree on the fact you can lose sight of the dot, stopped reading after a few rows, see things over range is very useful, headshot is headshot we can finally kill heavies without a proto sniper rifle and calmando. 4 November 2014 - the most funny day in Dust514
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 858	Posted - 2014.11.08 10:41:00 - [26] - Quote I can finally snipe without spending skill points is what I heard there. Haha. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Protocake JR USA Caucasians 1560	Posted - 2014.11.08 10:43:00 - [27] - Quote There is more to this game than PC. So far it's been a failure. Because of this you cannot balance the game soley off of PC. I wish we could, but the truth is, most people play pubs. Too many random variables and no guarantees that a counter will be available for perch sniping. Prior to the headshot update, sniping a tanked perch sniper was annoying. It wasn't fun. Engagements to waaaay too long if the perch sniper retreated as soon as he got hit. Also, Thales are the embodiment of broken sniper mechanics. The point i'm trying to make is that sniper mechanics are/were broken. What we have now isn't perfect, but it's an improvement from past mechanics. Otherwise, the people wouldn't have spoken up about how crappy snipers are.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4678	Posted - 2014.11.08 10:44:00 - [28] - Quote 600m made snipers immune to everything but a Thales. The ONLY weapon with the range to hit it, obtainable only by random chance in planetary conquest. This is unbalanced. End. Stop. Let me spell this out in the simplest terms: When a single class makes the game unfun for most players to the point where it is obvious that you cannot counter it through any means other than playing that class then that class needs to be changed hard. See: scout see: HMG Sentinel. I play HMG Sentinel and even I admit the class has gotten out of hand to the detriment of the game at large and punishes most players for not speccing in. Snipers are now at a point where they are powerful and counterable. If you cannot accept the loss of comparative immunity find another game. "Finger of God" was never intended to be a playable class. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4979	Posted - 2014.11.08 10:46:00 - [29] - Quote I hate the fact that you can jump around, spin in circles, and strafe back and forth super fast...all while maintaining perfect accuracy and zero recoil when ADS using a combat rifle or assault rifle. Yet you can be crouched with a sniper and when you ADS your gun sways all over the place. And don't anyone give me that bullshit "but the gun is long and heavy" response. Have you seen the size of the scrambler rifle? Pretty sure that doesn't have any sway either. This is why sniping in this game is not worth it for me. Why is there not a suit in the game that gives a reduction to kick and sway of rail weaponry? Why the heck is the Caldari Assault bonus a faster reload speed? 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Midas Fool Prophets of the Velocirapture 526	Posted - 2014.11.08 10:50:00 - [30] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Why is there not a suit in the game that gives a reduction to kick and sway of rail weaponry? Why the heck is the Caldari Assault bonus a faster reload speed? I really like the CalAssault reload. I wouldn't mind a reduction to sway instead though, since it doesn't step on the Calmando's toes as much. [Ironically generic forum signature here]

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4680	Posted - 2014.11.08 10:51:00 - [31] - Quote It's that way because quick-scoping isn't a mechanic that is balanced or even really something that shouldbe encouraged. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
shaman oga The Dunwich Horror 3069	Posted - 2014.11.08 10:54:00 - [32] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: I can finally snipe without spending skill points is what I heard there. Haha. You can kill people with basic AR, CR, LR, PLC, etc... I don't see the reason why sniper rifle should be different. 4 November 2014 - the most funny day in Dust514
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 858	Posted - 2014.11.08 11:03:00 - [33] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: 600m made snipers immune to everything but a Thales. The ONLY weapon with the range to hit it, obtainable only by random chance in planetary conquest. This is unbalanced. End. Stop. Let me spell this out in the simplest terms: When a single class makes the game unfun for most players to the point where it is obvious that you cannot counter it through any means other than playing that class then that class needs to be changed hard. See: scout see: HMG Sentinel. I play HMG Sentinel and even I admit the class has gotten out of hand to the detriment of the game at large and punishes most players for not speccing in. Snipers are now at a point where they are powerful and counterable. If you cannot accept the loss of comparative immunity find another game. "Finger of God" was never intended to be a playable class. Not even, I've killed people at 599 with a Charge Sniper Rifle. Meaning that's right Tactical / Standard variants could kill at 600m as well. Officer gear is more readily obtained through random chance in the standard matches outside of PC, it's not restricted to PC as you just made claim. The best counter to snipers since their release has been the ADS. You never had to become a sniper to kill a sniper. Most snipers in previous builds had to snipe in full proto to be effective because of increased suit EHP. Combined with snipers low war point accrual meant killing them twice in a match would have them going negative on isk. Not to mention countless drop ships lost to get on top of towers and odd elevated locations. Snipers aren't powerful so much as they are powerless to have a meaningful impact on a match. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 858	Posted - 2014.11.08 11:10:00 - [34] - Quote Snipers already have it bad when half the maps don't let them snipe into objectives, who wants a sniper who can't defend a point? Haha right.. How many maps can you claim make the Scout or the Heavy borderline useless? Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4682	Posted - 2014.11.08 11:35:00 - [35] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Snipers already have it bad when half the maps don't let them snipe into objectives, who wants a sniper who can't defend a point? Haha right.. How many maps can you claim make the Scout or the Heavy borderline useless? I have so much hate for sentinel and scout spam I cannot even begin. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17656	Posted - 2014.11.08 11:40:00 - [36] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Breakin Stuff.. Sniper vs Sniper (gun game) is a thing. Welcome to Dust 514 for the past several years. You want instant gratification? Dust 514 may not be the game for you! (when someone is really far away from you and not moving, but you wish to interact with said player.. guess what you have to do?) Snipers have been nerfed time after time since launch. Can you not acknowledge this? The role has now been reduced and simplified into something less than it was before. 600m range was about the only thing that separated a sniper rifle from a forge gun. Snipers were mostly untouched since like... 1.0 please run your fact checker again. Also please remove yourself from the 50 damage at 600+ meter camp please; seriously that's how bad some of these snipers want their range back. They seemingly don't care if it takes their entire ammo stock to kill people. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4684	Posted - 2014.11.08 12:35:00 - [37] - Quote Let us repeat: If you cannot be hit by any other weapon in the game your weapon is imbalanced. It's that simple. When a rail tank is incapable of shooting you it is indicative of a SERIOUS PROBLEM. If your class makes the game unfun for the majority of players your class needs to be toned down. Snipers made the game not fun for most players. They got fixed. Now the only people complaining are the ones who enjoyed racking up kills against everyon who did not skill into sniper rifles with impunity. Scouts are making the game not fun for a wide number of players. I guarantee this is going to get dealt with. HMG sentinels make the game not fun for a large swath of the population. Rattati is actively working on bringing them to heel even if I personally believe he's taking the wrong approach. Snipers were rightfully toned down HMG sentinels and Scouts will also rightfully be changed. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1704	Posted - 2014.11.08 12:39:00 - [38] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: a number of things upset me.. - New dot for sniper rifle is too tiny (you lose sight of it on white backgrounds) hurts target acquisition on moving targets, too small to tell you're on target by direct line of sight color change. I would like to propose changing it back to the original dot. -Charge sniper rifle noise is ultra annoying, headache inducing, this never got "fixed" because nobody with influence ever cared or sniped for that matter. -Sniper rifle range on some of the larger maps created scenarios where I could see enemies that I could not shoot. i.e. 6 tower map.. from the tower top closest my MCC to the middle tower top across the center of the map overlooking the domination objective, was out of range of each other. 350m+ away. Stupid. -Headshot damage is way too high on sniper rifles, eliminating the whole "gun game" / "gun play" between sniper on sniper. If someone decides to counter snipe you after you kill them on the ground, they can come back from any direction and line up a headshot. In the past it took more than 1 bullet to kill a sniper, allowing for the one being shot to have a small window to move, possibly make it to cover and return fire. The better sniper would win out usually. THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. My proposed changes wouldn't have created this zero skill scenario. (Good job IWS) See this link! -The removal of the old Charge Sniper Rifle from the game. High damage body shots with enough bullets in the clip to allow you to miss a shot without having the huge penalty of reloading and reacquiring your target + stabilization time. You added the "executioner" and the "wanna be quickscoping tactical" but at the cost of removing the most solid sniper rifle from the game. !@#% me. Nobody asked for those two additional sniper rifle types at the cost of removing the Charge. I know you do what you want, I also know you listen from time to time. My proposed changes weren't complicated, and certainly not drastic. The game state for a sniper I feel is as awful as it has ever been. Since I know you like solutions, I suggest going back to Charlie sniper rifles / ranges / damage and increase the base damage and headshot damage each slightly. Instead of creating new gun types that aren't even good enough for PC matches. The 5 round clip Charge was at best a bad Thale's. Now there is seriously nothing close. You went all in on making the sniper rifle a "precision / lucky bullet weapon" and it's horrible (in my humble opinion). I wish things were different, and above all I wish I found this game more appealing. I cannot recreate the fluidity and finesse of my Dust 514 sniping videos in the current game state. (someone at CCP please watch one) I'm hating sniping, and therefore Dust 514. there is 2 dots.. 1 for TAC 1 for normal rifles. the charge noise is there to denote its CHARGED.. same as forgeguns stop whining. max range on snipers view dist is now likw 400m cause of how deep in the redline they would be and even ccp said they were RISK FREE. after all the things you think snipers "sacrificed" i think they are better off now.. as fat snipers are no longer unkillable and sniper rifles do more damage per shot. there is just no pleasing some people. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1704	Posted - 2014.11.08 12:41:00 - [39] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: Snipers already have it bad when half the maps don't let them snipe into objectives, who wants a sniper who can't defend a point? Haha right.. How many maps can you claim make the Scout or the Heavy borderline useless? I have so much hate for sentinel and scout spam I cannot even begin. i can agree with the hate on scouts.. but sentinels are easy.. 1 ot 2 people with mass drivers can clear out sentinels easly [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1704	Posted - 2014.11.08 12:42:00 - [40] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Snipers already have it bad when half the maps don't let them snipe into objectives, who wants a sniper who can't defend a point? Haha right.. How many maps can you claim make the Scout or the Heavy borderline useless? ironic when it seems to fall more to a logi player to defend a cap point alot of the time (source: ME.. ) [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1709	Posted - 2014.11.08 12:47:00 - [41] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: I hate the fact that you can jump around, spin in circles, and strafe back and forth super fast...all while maintaining perfect accuracy and zero recoil when ADS using a combat rifle or assault rifle. Yet you can be crouched with a sniper and when you ADS your gun sways all over the place. And don't anyone give me that bullshit "but the gun is long and heavy" response. Have you seen the size of the scrambler rifle? Pretty sure that doesn't have any sway either. This is why sniping in this game is not worth it for me. Why is there not a suit in the game that gives a reduction to kick and sway of rail weaponry? Why the heck is the Caldari Assault bonus a faster reload speed? that aid sway is intentional to stop COD-kiddies useing sniper for CQB. gun is long heavy and has a massive kick to send those projectiles down range at 400m+ however.. a reduction of sway while standing may help do its hard but not impossable to still snipe while stood up.. and the scrouching is probably the suit getting ready for extreme anti-sway so you can have 0 sway once your in place. i have no problem farming the tears of proto snipers with my Starter Sniper fit (epic lulz) unless they are a fat sniper then i gotta go adv or something to gib their brains. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 13518	Posted - 2014.11.08 15:20:00 - [42] - Quote If I were you Symbs, I'd just grab an Assault Forge Gun. Every hit is an OHK no matter what, you can kill vehicles with it, use it in CQC if you're good, and the range difference of 100m can easily be compensated by driving an LAV forward for about 3s. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 868	Posted - 2014.11.09 09:33:00 - [43] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: Breakin Stuff.. Sniper vs Sniper (gun game) is a thing. Welcome to Dust 514 for the past several years. You want instant gratification? Dust 514 may not be the game for you! (when someone is really far away from you and not moving, but you wish to interact with said player.. guess what you have to do?) Snipers have been nerfed time after time since launch. Can you not acknowledge this? The role has now been reduced and simplified into something less than it was before. 600m range was about the only thing that separated a sniper rifle from a forge gun. Snipers were mostly untouched since like... 1.0 please run your fact checker again. Also please remove yourself from the 50 damage at 600+ meter camp please; seriously that's how bad some of these snipers want their range back. They seemingly don't care if it takes their entire ammo stock to kill people. It would be great if you knew what you were talking about. Damage degradation at extended ranges was never a thing. I've killed players at 599m and a very long time ago at ranges upward of 700m and if memory serves 780m. When this game had legitimate terrain. (you know mountains) And every good squad had at least one sniper in it. It's possible to indirectly nerf something into obscurity without actually having modified the thing in question. This is what I was referring to. In ancient posts you can find me describing these detrimental game changes that reduced the role of a sniper. There has been an increase in health for any suit running armor plates. Large scale EHP boosts. (combined with) Proficiency Skill +15% damage versus armor only (instead of flat damage to both shields and armor) (combined with) Damage Mod Decrease getting 12% damage from 3 of these mods instead of 24% (combined with) Gallente Map Packs designed to be unfriendly for snipers (combined with) No Adjustment to the Sniper Rifle in an unbelievable amount of time to keep the weapon up to date. (combined with) Sniping in a Heavy Suit for a 10% bonus to sniper rifle damage. It feels almost forced. (combined with) Stealth Removal of Sniping Locations without warning or patch notes (combined with) Easymode Attack Drop Ships for high rate of fire splash damage anywhere you want it. (combined with) Cloaks and 1500hp Heavies pick one miss a lot more than normal or waste your time chipping away (combined with) Reduced AV Grenades in both damage + amount carried. Used to be decent drop ship defense (combined with) Increased Drop Ship Health so much so that you can't even carry enough AV grenades to kill one! (combined with) Fog of War /ON to no longer see what your squad sees. Waste time scanning over teammates(combined with) Z-fighting enemies render invisible against certain surfaces, what a huge waste of time (combined with) Removal of Mountains forcing snipers to relocate to more ground level or obvious positions. (combined with) To summarize.. rendeirng problems, players with too much health, reduced damage, reduced sniping locations, increased hard counters you cannot deal with, with antiquated weapons. Was the state of affairs until just recently, things had continued to get worse and worse for snipers. Some of it was directly targeting the role, other parts not so much either way all of it combined pushed the usefulness of the sniper into an almost unusable position for competitive play, short of a Thale's. There is still to this date no replacement for comparable weapon. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 868	Posted - 2014.11.09 09:53:00 - [44] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: a number of things upset me.. - New dot for sniper rifle is too tiny (you lose sight of it on white backgrounds) hurts target acquisition on moving targets, too small to tell you're on target by direct line of sight color change. I would like to propose changing it back to the original dot. -Charge sniper rifle noise is ultra annoying, headache inducing, this never got "fixed" because nobody with influence ever cared or sniped for that matter. -Sniper rifle range on some of the larger maps created scenarios where I could see enemies that I could not shoot. i.e. 6 tower map.. from the tower top closest my MCC to the middle tower top across the center of the map overlooking the domination objective, was out of range of each other. 350m+ away. Stupid. -Headshot damage is way too high on sniper rifles, eliminating the whole "gun game" / "gun play" between sniper on sniper. If someone decides to counter snipe you after you kill them on the ground, they can come back from any direction and line up a headshot. In the past it took more than 1 bullet to kill a sniper, allowing for the one being shot to have a small window to move, possibly make it to cover and return fire. The better sniper would win out usually. THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. My proposed changes wouldn't have created this zero skill scenario. (Good job IWS) See this link! -The removal of the old Charge Sniper Rifle from the game. High damage body shots with enough bullets in the clip to allow you to miss a shot without having the huge penalty of reloading and reacquiring your target + stabilization time. You added the "executioner" and the "wanna be quickscoping tactical" but at the cost of removing the most solid sniper rifle from the game. !@#% me. Nobody asked for those two additional sniper rifle types at the cost of removing the Charge. I know you do what you want, I also know you listen from time to time. My proposed changes weren't complicated, and certainly not drastic. The game state for a sniper I feel is as awful as it has ever been. Since I know you like solutions, I suggest going back to Charlie sniper rifles / ranges / damage and increase the base damage and headshot damage each slightly. Instead of creating new gun types that aren't even good enough for PC matches. The 5 round clip Charge was at best a bad Thale's. Now there is seriously nothing close. You went all in on making the sniper rifle a "precision / lucky bullet weapon" and it's horrible (in my humble opinion). I wish things were different, and above all I wish I found this game more appealing. I cannot recreate the fluidity and finesse of my Dust 514 sniping videos in the current game state. (someone at CCP please watch one) I'm hating sniping, and therefore Dust 514. there is 2 dots.. 1 for TAC 1 for normal rifles. the charge noise is there to denote its CHARGED.. same as forgeguns stop whining. max range on snipers view dist is now likw 400m cause of how deep in the redline they would be and even ccp said they were RISK FREE. after all the things you think snipers "sacrificed" i think they are better off now.. as fat snipers are no longer unkillable and sniper rifles do more damage per shot. there is just no pleasing some people. You think I don't know this? I'm saying the newest immutable iteration sucks for the standard / charge sniper rifle. See original post. If you were a sniper you would know listening for drop ships is a very real method of detection. Decreasing the SFX volume will fix the problem of the loud high pitched whining of the charge sniper rifle, at the cost of you not being able to hear incoming drop ships. The sound for the weapon changed when the center charge circle was removed. It's not something that is beyond changing. I simply suggest toning down how horribly loud it is. It's enough to drive a dedicated sniper insane. (I doubt there are any of those I recognize left at the moment) Forge Guns are huge heavy weapons that are capable of taking down drop ships with ease. It shouldn't matter if they're loud, you're not going to be listening for drop ships nearly as much as you will be straight up looking for them. The comparison doesn't work. RISK FREE SNIPING.. usually resulted in a match loss, and averaging a very low kill count / War Point total, resulting in a low payout. Your contribution was minimal, and most targets were so tiny it was like taking shots in the dark. Not viable for competitive play, not fun for casual play. Balancing snipers around the red line instead of changing the red line mechanic was a real piece of **** move. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17666	Posted - 2014.11.09 09:58:00 - [45] - Quote TBH I havent heard of a single mechanic that would fix the 'redline' issue CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 868	Posted - 2014.11.09 10:01:00 - [46] - Quote TBH since you were the guy spearheading sniper rifle changes. How many kills do you have from sniping? You know first hand knowledge on the subject. (just guess) edit: How many kills in the current build post sniper rifle changes? Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17667	Posted - 2014.11.09 15:01:00 - [47] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: TBH since you were the guy spearheading sniper rifle changes. How many kills do you have from sniping? You know first hand knowledge on the subject. (just guess) edit: How many kills in the current build post sniper rifle changes? edit: I'm not trying to antagonize you so much as to get a grip on your experience level concerning the changes you had implemented. In dust 514? I say at least 10% CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 870	Posted - 2014.11.09 21:36:00 - [48] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber (is this you?) 7,368 kills 1.16 kd 0.94 win/loss Assuming you don't have some alternate character stashed away.. 736 sniper rifle kills give or take a few? You know it's funny, I've knocked out more sniper rifle kills than that in just one sitting.. I would go as far as to say that I've killed x5 that many in one sitting.. I'm not sure if with numbers like that you even play this game. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 90	Posted - 2014.11.09 22:28:00 - [49] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: I never said I want to kill every suit in the game with a headshot. If anything it's been said that a heavy should be able to sustain 1 headshot, and die to a follow up bodyshot from a charge sniper rifle. Meaning it would likely take 1 headshot and 2 bodyshots from a standard sniper rifle SEE MY PROPOSED CHANGES (the ones given before the current build) I suppose I should break it down for you some more. Snipers have had many hard counters in the past and more now, including the Militia Sniper Rifle more than ever. In the past the Tactical Sniper Rifle was used as the best choice to counter snipe another sniper.. zero recoil double-triple headshot with increased zoom. Now every sniper rifle fills this same role, but even better. You assumed I didn't speak up, but why should I when it's simply because you haven't followed the discussion for long enough. well the reason why they changed it was to bring snipers closer to te burn zone and our of the red zone and to compensate for it the increased the damage,. even though some snipers still can hit hard from teh red line it makes it possible to counter sniper or of your suit is quick enough run in kill said sniper and get out. im not sure if you know why but just leting you know The Little Girl with the HMG
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 82	Posted - 2014.11.09 22:36:00 - [50] - Quote I think sniping was slightly better before 1.9 hit purely because of the damage buff. The range nerf is awful and now the bullet trails are so noticible that I was having to move after every shot one map because someone was determined to kill me - I was taken out 3 times by the same cloaked shotgunner within seconds of shooting. My squad can now tell me exactly where a sniper is just because they've happened to notice the trails (which "are like a giant flashing neon arrow" pointing out the sniper according to one guy I was playing with). Now, the redline has been changed, removing some sniping points from the map, the mountains have been altered in some maps and cover has been added so that you can no longer defend a point with a sniper rifle. And the new maps are really not very sniper friendly. And I've played with nobody who's liked the new recticle. It's a real struggle to see whether you're on target or not, especially near installations.

Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7537	Posted - 2014.11.09 22:44:00 - [51] - Quote sabre prime wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: So you have no problem with the fact that you can oneshot everyone else... But if they oneshot you it's unfair. Get out. I don't often respond like this. But you're stupid. How did you come up with that response from symbs original post? Edit: before anyone starts getting their knickers in a twist let me support symbs. In very simple terms, sniping has been turned into 'i headshot you, you headshot me'. Or 'I one shot you, you one shot me'. CCP went too far with the damage increases and the ridiculous headshot multipliers. They reduced and simplified the sniping role, instead of building on it's tactical usefulness. I'm sorry, but you aren't going for headshots, you shouldn't be using a sniper rifle. It's made specifically for dropping targets at range with a single headshot. Snipers are about efficiency and psychological warfare. Drop enough targets stupid enough to stand still, and all of the sudden everyone starts to use cover. People are afraid to stand still in fear of that headshot. You can take this even farther with a mobile sniper. You set up wide flanks on widely used battlegrounds. When both teams start shooting at each other, you can maneuver and remove their cover, making it impossible for them to regen of find safety. Done right: this can easily turn a firefight into your favor (Assuming non-bad blue dots) I read the above as "I can't get headshots, bring back high damage body shots", to which I say "Learn how to aim". The only legitimate complaint against this is the stupid sights and magnification. That is it. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui VEHICLEBUSTERS Demolitions and Logistics Corp . 1373	Posted - 2014.11.09 22:44:00 - [52] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: Perhaps snipers shouldn't sit in one spot all match. Sniping should require repositioning, if you've been discovered. Pitching a tent on top of a tower is what is ruining this game. Not when you could go and confront them , the people who are complaining about it are the one's who do nothing about it . If someone snipes me and I know where it came from , I'm coming to see you no if's and's or but's about it . I can agree with most of what Sym is saying . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 875	Posted - 2014.11.09 22:53:00 - [53] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: well the reason why they changed it was to bring snipers closer to te burn zone and our of the red zone and to compensate for it the increased the damage,. even though some snipers still can hit hard from teh red line it makes it possible to counter sniper or of your suit is quick enough run in kill said sniper and get out. im not sure if you know why but just leting you know You missed the point, the increased damage didn't require any trade off. When it was taking 3 clips of a tactical sniper or 2 clips of a standard sniper rifle to down a 1500hp heavy.. a base damage increase was well deserved without any reduction to the role. Snipers need LONGER range to function well. Sometimes there is nothing to shoot at except the guys over 400m away.. to position yourself to a more forward elevated location would require calling in yet another drop ship, making yourself super visible to the enemy team (as if the bullet trails weren't already doing that) and don't you dare try to recall that 30k isk drop ship, because your target will be long gone before you get set up again. Often enough there is nothing to shoot at within 400m, but that guy off in the distance calling in an ADS to come kill you.. the only chance of defense you might have is shooting the pilot before he gets in. And snipers have now been denied this tactic as well because of the range reduction. Killing vehicle pilots was a very real thing, at worst delaying the enemy pilots for your team. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 875	Posted - 2014.11.09 22:57:00 - [54] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: sabre prime wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: So you have no problem with the fact that you can oneshot everyone else... But if they oneshot you it's unfair. Get out. I don't often respond like this. But you're stupid. How did you come up with that response from symbs original post? Edit: before anyone starts getting their knickers in a twist let me support symbs. In very simple terms, sniping has been turned into 'i headshot you, you headshot me'. Or 'I one shot you, you one shot me'. CCP went too far with the damage increases and the ridiculous headshot multipliers. They reduced and simplified the sniping role, instead of building on it's tactical usefulness. I'm sorry, but you aren't going for headshots, you shouldn't be using a sniper rifle. It's made specifically for dropping targets at range with a single headshot. Snipers are about efficiency and psychological warfare. Drop enough targets stupid enough to stand still, and all of the sudden everyone starts to use cover. People are afraid to stand still in fear of that headshot. You can take this even farther with a mobile sniper. You set up wide flanks on widely used battlegrounds. When both teams start shooting at each other, you can maneuver and remove their cover, making it impossible for them to regen of find safety. Done right: this can easily turn a firefight into your favor (Assuming non-bad blue dots) I read the above as "I can't get headshots, bring back high damage body shots", to which I say "Learn how to aim". The only legitimate complaint against this is the stupid sights and magnification. That is it. What % of headshots do you get in a PC match while sniping? You cannot go for headshots 100% of the time. It's INCONSISTENT, and therefore NOT EFFECTIVE. Nobody EVER has to STAND STILL. (and the good players don't) This relegates the sniper rifle to being good against BAD PLAYERS ONLY. This is what all in on Headshots gets you. CRAP. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
DarthPlagueis TheWise 339	Posted - 2014.11.09 22:59:00 - [55] - Quote Symbs, you just need a break man. I was convinced I'd never skill into the SR. But after leaving Dust for a month and playing Destiny I realized how much I loved this game, and how much I loved sniping. So I said "**** it, I don't care how viable it is in PC or proto stomp skirms" and skilled into the Thale's. Now I'm just going to run the ADV with a basic scout and not care about dying because I have WAY too many of these collecting dust in my inventory, not to mention the ADV salvage one, and the Covenant BPO. Too much of ANYTHING is unhealthy. Oh, and apparently you don't Forge Gun much because trust me the sound is a lot worse. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 221	Posted - 2014.11.09 23:05:00 - [56] - Quote Unless every sniper can be reached by a light weapon other than a sniper they are OP and should be removed. No other play style has that high of a reward, kd/r advantage and damage potential without being vulnerable to anything but another sniper. Snipers require too much effort to remove, one has to travel hundreds of metres or call in a vehicle to eliminate a threat that does not offer any objective play tactical advantages. Snipers need a 250m max range. Don't QQ because no other suit is invulnerable like you to other play styles. It's true and you know it. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 875	Posted - 2014.11.09 23:08:00 - [57] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: Symbs, you just need a break man. I was convinced I'd never skill into the SR. But after leaving Dust for a month and playing Destiny I realized how much I loved this game, and how much I loved sniping. So I said "**** it, I don't care how viable it is in PC or proto stomp skirms" and skilled into the Thale's. Now I'm just going to run the ADV with a basic scout and not care about dying because I have WAY too many of these collecting dust in my inventory, not to mention the ADV salvage one, and the Covenant BPO. Too much of ANYTHING is unhealthy. Oh, and apparently you don't Forge Gun much because trust me the sound is a lot worse. I know the FG sound is worse, but you're not scoped in and unable to see your surroundings so you can turn your volume down with no loss of combat awareness. Scoped in with a Sniper Rifle, you need to hear what's going on around you (unless you're totally fine with an ADS coming up behind you and blasting you to bits) Low kill count games are't my thing, I try my best every game, I bring my best every game. Suicide sniping with reduced damage (not full proto) and a paper thin suit that lets anything destroy me on contact just isn't my thing either. I feel I've wasted my time if I can't average 20 kills a game in full proto. Especially against teams running advanced or militia gear. 20 kills is a great number against a team wearing prototype. Anyway, 8-15 kills on random targets of no important is just wasting time. I can't do it. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 875	Posted - 2014.11.09 23:17:00 - [58] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Unless every sniper can be reached by a light weapon other than a sniper they are OP and should be removed. No other play style has that high of a reward, kd/r advantage and damage potential without being vulnerable to anything but another sniper. Snipers require too much effort to remove, one has to travel hundreds of metres or call in a vehicle to eliminate a threat that does not offer any objective play tactical advantages. Snipers need a 250m max range. Don't QQ because no other suit is invulnerable like you to other play styles. It's true and you know it. Why remove a sniper when you can just ignore them? (vehicles, interior battlegrounds, cloaks, cover) What makes you think a Sniper is OP if there isn't another "light weapon" that can reach them? You're trolling at this point, either that or mentally deficient. I don't know, scouts are pretty invulnerable whenever they want to be.. dampened up and cloaked half the time, fast as hell. How do I revenge kill a cloaked scout? I don't think you do. I think they do whatever the **** they want, and dictate when and where they engage. (it's kind of hard to headshot cloaked scouts) A heavy has enough hit points and point blank damage to hold down an interior objective like a beast. (you know those important spots in the game that decide who wins completely covered and sniper proof.) Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 221	Posted - 2014.11.09 23:27:00 - [59] - Quote I think now you're just asking for it. If a sniper can't be killed by another light weapon where is the balance? A shotgun is effective at close range but slight further it has no chance against a rifle. A rifle is good at medium range as it is a general purpose weapon. A sniper should be good at long range BUT has no chance at short range. Unfortunately your broken @** redline tactics mean that you are never approached short range, which means you have NO drawbacks to using your weapon. Scouts are pretty invulnerable when they want to be???? You are mentally or skill wise deficient I would argue here... Cloaks only work against bad players, most sprint scouts are weak tank wise as hell, easy to eliminate, and those kin cats require huge fitting sacrifice as well as skill investment. Then you claim they dictate when and where they engage... But so does a heavy sitting in a building But so does an assault sitting on a hill But so does a sniper sitting in the redline But so does a tank moving or staying in the redline Your point? Range dictation falls to player skill not suit type. And if objectives are covered as you say then snipers have no purpose in an objective focused team play game and are simply cowards looking to bolster their kdr by dealing huge damage from ridiculous ranges that cannot be approached by 99% of fits. Oh and heavies are MEANT to excel in short range objective building gameplay, that's their bloody niche. Amateur. Stop QQing because your play style is op. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 880	Posted - 2014.11.09 23:58:00 - [60] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: I think now you're just asking for it. If a sniper can't be killed by another light weapon where is the balance? A shotgun is effective at close range but slight further it has no chance against a rifle. A rifle is good at medium range as it is a general purpose weapon. A sniper should be good at long range BUT has no chance at short range. Unfortunately your broken @ redline tactics mean that you are never approached short range, which means you have NO drawbacks to using your weapon. Scouts are pretty invulnerable when they want to be???? You are mentally or skill wise deficient I would argue here... Cloaks only work against bad players, most sprint scouts are weak tank wise as hell, easy to eliminate, and those kin cats require huge fitting sacrifice as well as skill investment. Then you claim they dictate when and where they engage... But so does a heavy sitting in a building But so does an assault sitting on a hill But so does a sniper sitting in the redline But so does a tank moving or staying in the redline Your point? Range dictation falls to player skill not suit type. And if objectives are covered as you say then snipers have no purpose in an objective focused team play game and are simply cowards looking to bolster their kdr by dealing huge damage from ridiculous ranges that cannot be approached by 99% of fits. Oh and heavies are MEANT to excel in short range objective building gameplay, that's their bloody niche. Amateur. Stop QQing because your play style is op. "Snipers are MEANT to excel in long range objective outdoor gameplay, that's their bloody niche" I might as well stand 350m away from a point and defend it with a forge gun, because at least I'll kill the guy that runs in there, (thank you splash damage) and in the mean time have 1500hp, and be able to blow up vehicles for massive war points. There is no incentive to snipe. And you calling me a red line sniper? Get real. If anything from the middle of the map I want to be able to kill enemy red line snipers, but they're too far away now.. and they're still able to cover their home point objective with impunity. To me that's what this range reduction has accomplished, it's given red line snipers god mode from forward recon snipers**. The red line snipers can continue to head glitch, while the elevated map positions aren't close enough to the enemy red line to allow counter play. This "fix" just created new problems, also this "fix" does nothing on small maps. It's like half a band-aid covered in dirt. I agree a non-commando should stand little chance at close range against pretty much ANY other light weapon. I also believe the game is diverse enough to allow checks and balances to come from different areas other than confining everything to single weapon category type. Scouts aren't limited to fixed positions to define their usefulness. A sniper most certainly is. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)

manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 223	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:00:00 - [61] - Quote Force snipers to move outside redline and they are balanced. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 880	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:01:00 - [62] - Quote I'm all for it. (even though killing red line snipers has made up large percentage of my kills.) UNFORTUNATELY the red line offers many great sniping spots UNFORTUNATELY map interiors often only have a couple or sometimes zero great sniping spots Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 337	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:03:00 - [63] - Quote Whether you like being a mobile sniper or an overwatch sniper -- I would think the changes are good for sniping. Not just because now snipers don't have the I can hit you you can't touch me playstyle anymore. But also because of the skill cap rewards. I don't mean SP -- I mean player skill. The better the sniper the more headshots he will get. Since snipers have a huge headshot multiplier now -- you can kill pretty much anything. If you kill someone in one shot then they won't know where you sniped from. Hence masking your location. Instead of staying hidden through broken mechanics they stay hidden through sniping ability. So it seems to me that the new changes of - range but + headshot damage rewards skilled snipers. I'm not a sniper though so I can only comment as one who is sniped. Sometimes I get in a match and the other team has a very good sniper who never misses his headshots. I go down a few times and can never find him. So I have to go avoid that part of the map for a bit o.O
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 223	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:09:00 - [64] - Quote Just like in some maps vehicles are useless And in indoor maps assaults are weak And in outdoor maps heavies are weak And so on Every role has its niche, just because it's the meat grinder map sometimes doesn't mean snipers should be op NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 989	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:17:00 - [65] - Quote Sniping is still the least risky of all playstyles. Maybe more risky than before but good, you all should have tons of isk saved up from hardly ever dying. I'm not a sniper per se, but I have proto rifles and its just a situational as the other barely ever die styles of play from before. When I'm in an ads, some matches I can fly around with impunity, some matches I can't enter the combat zone without eating **. Sniping is kind of the same, some matches I can snipe away while eating chips with my off hand(I use kbm for sniping, forging, and tanks) and some matches every Tom ** and Harry balls is out to countersnipe me. It just means you have to have more variety in your sniping if you want to stay in the mix. Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 880	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:20:00 - [66] - Quote Yeahh.. missing a headshot, will result in either.. a miss OR a body shot in the case of a miss, they'll likely hear the bullet / see the trail or both. in the case of a body shot, they'll know for sure they're being targeted / possibly see the bullet trail in either case targets will often jump around and move erratically like a fish out of water to avoid taking further damage until they make it to cover / cloak up. Headshots at long distances are hard to get on mobile targets. (anything over 250m) The bonus would have had almost no beneficial impact on red line snipers. Skill cap rewards have been lowered. The headshot damage is so high, suit type means almost nothing for a sniper. There is almost no benefit to running prototype. The damage multiplier is so high on headshots someone can come back from any angle and if you're a fixed position sniper, they'll have the first shot on you. Which will almost certainly be lethal. Thus eliminating any reason a sniper would have to obtain some of the better overwatch elevated spots. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 880	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:28:00 - [67] - Quote Reign Omega wrote: Sniping is still the least risky of all playstyles. Maybe more risky than before but good, you all should have tons of isk saved up from hardly ever dying. I'm not a sniper per se, but I have proto rifles and its just a situational as the other barely ever die styles of play from before. When I'm in an ads, some matches I can fly around with impunity, some matches I can't enter the combat zone without eating **. Sniping is kind of the same, some matches I can snipe away while eating chips with my off hand(I use kbm for sniping, forging, and tanks) and some matches every Tom ** and Harry balls is out to countersnipe me. It just means you have to have more variety in your sniping if you want to stay in the mix. You lost me at "you all should have tons of isk saved up from hardly ever dying" To be a good sniper you had to run full proto in the past. 1 death cost me 87k? +dropship to get to a good sniping location 30k? (recall time is too high gives away position ditch the drop ship) 2 deaths meant I made zero ISK. (between suicides, and eventually pissing people off enough to come get me.. making money from public matches wasn't easy if I was running full proto, the same as it is for anyone else.) ISK is no longer a limiting factor in Dust 514. (especially for veteran players) It's not a matter of ISK. It's the matter of skill it takes for one sniper to kill another. Which currently is ZERO. Imagine if all light weapon engagements were determined by who saw who first? Would that be fun? Again sniper vs sniper TTK "gun game" is non existent. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 990	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:36:00 - [68] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Reign Omega wrote: Sniping is still the least risky of all playstyles. Maybe more risky than before but good, you all should have tons of isk saved up from hardly ever dying. I'm not a sniper per se, but I have proto rifles and its just a situational as the other barely ever die styles of play from before. When I'm in an ads, some matches I can fly around with impunity, some matches I can't enter the combat zone without eating **. Sniping is kind of the same, some matches I can snipe away while eating chips with my off hand(I use kbm for sniping, forging, and tanks) and some matches every Tom ** and Harry balls is out to countersnipe me. It just means you have to have more variety in your sniping if you want to stay in the mix. You lost me at "you all should have tons of isk saved up from hardly ever dying" To be a good sniper you had to run full proto in the past. 1 death cost me 87k? +dropship to get to a good sniping location 30k? (recall time is too high gives away position ditch the drop ship) 2 deaths meant I made zero ISK. (sniping the lowest war point role there is) (between suicides, and eventually pissing people off enough to come get me.. making money from public matches wasn't easy if I was running full proto, the same as it is for anyone else.) ISK is no longer a limiting factor in Dust 514. (especially for veteran players) It's not a matter of ISK. It's the matter of skill it takes for one sniper to kill another. Which currently is ZERO. Imagine if all light weapon engagements were determined by who saw who first? Would that be fun? Again sniper vs sniper TTK "gun game" is non existent. Most engagement in this game period is based on that fact to be honest. I don't care at which point in my wording you became offended because the point is still valid. The isk comment was mainly a jab at how long and how interrupted snipers as a large group have been able to snipe with impunity with the only possible counters being: A suicide red line run A sniper with the best rifle in the game or the luck of having an angle on your position A warbarge strike that May or may not hit you So now you have to worry about average Joe sniper being able to pop you because you stayed in one place too long? Join the club. I know you're some sort of respected sniper with videos and all that but, no, sorry it's not impossible to be a viable sniper it just requires the same thing other changes have required for other players, adapting your technique. Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 991	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:41:00 - [69] - Quote Oh and btw I really like your officer rifle lol bravo. Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2486	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:46:00 - [70] - Quote Sniping is more fun than ever. Put on a cloak, find a good spot, take out your target, cloak and reposition. If you stay mobile, the risk of being counter sniped is low, but you will need to watch your back and keep it sneaky. You have to really fight the temptation to linger in a really good spot with a good line of sight on a bunch of enemies. Best PvE idea ever!

manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 225	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:48:00 - [71] - Quote Indeed, today I went 27/0 in a commando With tac sniper in ambush at 130m range staying at the back of my team And went 33/2 in a basic min scout with tac sniper, defending points and pulling out my breach scp to deal with enemies that got too close NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 890	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:52:00 - [72] - Quote Increased headshot damage certainly buffs the "quickscoping / close range" sniper. That's for sure. 6 bullets in a tactical clip, you can spam headshots for days. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 890	Posted - 2014.11.10 00:54:00 - [73] - Quote 33/2 with a basic suit, and probably a basic sniper rifle. Why would anyone want to go proto? Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 225	Posted - 2014.11.10 01:02:00 - [74] - Quote Need not want The snipers are op without high meta gear usage and skills A proto commando with a kaalakiota Is just not necessary to achieve great results Not even a militia heavy is as effective as a militia sniper NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Cass Caul 1510	Posted - 2014.11.10 01:40:00 - [75] - Quote Lol, IWS has under 800 kills with a sniper rifle. Zatara is probably the next on the list with the most sniper rifle kills since Uprising 1.0, though . . . omg, I'm blanking on his in-game name. J.W. (are initials ok? wait, whatever http://dust514.com/community/cpm/ still has the names of everyone up. Jacob probably has the most kills total. Probably under 20k though and he said he dropped the weapon in the early days of Uprsing. Real glad they listened to player input. It's definitely best to listen to those that whine the most. And it's great that they've ignored how the range nerf has helped redline snipers. EDIT: Soraya, that's who I was thinking of... lol says a lot when you know their name but can't remember their character name. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
Criteria Shipment The Hundred Acre Hood 949	Posted - 2014.11.10 01:49:00 - [76] - Quote sabre prime wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: So you have no problem with the fact that you can oneshot everyone else... But if they oneshot you it's unfair. Get out. I don't often respond like this. But you're stupid. How did you come up with that response from symbs original post? Edit: before anyone starts getting their knickers in a twist let me support symbs. In very simple terms, sniping has been turned into 'i headshot you, you headshot me'. Or 'I one shot you, you one shot me'. CCP went too far with the damage increases and the ridiculous headshot multipliers. They reduced and simplified the sniping role, instead of building on it's tactical usefulness. Yea, I use my bolt pistol and its too easy. First rule, take down the shields. Second, aim for the head. Profit
DarthPlagueis TheWise 344	Posted - 2014.11.10 01:55:00 - [77] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: I know the FG sound is worse, but you're not scoped in and unable to see your surroundings so you can turn your volume down with no loss of combat awareness. Scoped in with a Sniper Rifle, you need to hear what's going on around you (unless you're totally fine with an ADS coming up behind you and blasting you to bits) Low kill count games are't my thing, I try my best every game, I bring my best every game. Suicide sniping with reduced damage (not full proto) and a paper thin suit that lets anything destroy me on contact just isn't my thing either. I feel I've wasted my time if I can't average 20 kills a game in full proto. Especially against teams running advanced or militia gear. 20 kills is a great number against a team wearing prototype. Anyway, 8-15 kills on random targets of no important is just wasting time. I can't do it. I hide behind my proto and my try hard proto team. I'm sorry, what was that you said? I couldn't quite hear over the B.S. i respect you as a sniper man but come on get over yourself. Im not gonna turn down my volume when i forge gun lmao Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Everything Dies FUNNY NAME GOES HERE 1063	Posted - 2014.11.10 02:30:00 - [78] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Real glad they listened to player input. It's definitely best to listen to those that whine the most. And it's great that they've ignored how the range nerf has helped redline snipers. BINGO. Reduced range = enemy team now has to come out that much further to try and counter snipe the sniper in the redline. How many snipers are going to run into the thick of battle with nothing more than a sidearm as their only means of self-defense? Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
Everything Dies FUNNY NAME GOES HERE 1063	Posted - 2014.11.10 02:33:00 - [79] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: Unless every sniper can be reached by a light weapon other than a sniper they are OP and should be removed. No other play style has that high of a reward, kd/r advantage and damage potential without being vulnerable to anything but another sniper. Snipers require too much effort to remove, one has to travel hundreds of metres or call in a vehicle to eliminate a threat that does not offer any objective play tactical advantages. Snipers need a 250m max range. Don't QQ because no other suit is invulnerable like you to other play styles. It's true and you know it. What makes you think a Sniper is OP if there isn't another "light weapon" that can reach them? You're trolling at this point, either that or mentally deficient. Looking at his sig, I'm leaning towards the latter. Calls out snipers because of how their suit is "invulnerable" to other play styles while his sig bemoans the loss of his God-mode ADS. Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
five times Liverpool F.C. 24	Posted - 2014.11.10 02:36:00 - [80] - Quote CCP Keep the current rifles please, but if you are going to listen to the more well known players and bring the old ones back then I propose that: 1) have both sets of rifles on the market, the old rifles with old damage/range and new rifles with new damage/range 2) keep the new stats on the officer rifles 3) triple the Isk cost of the older variants 4) tell every one that whines to funk off

Everything Dies FUNNY NAME GOES HERE 1067	Posted - 2014.11.10 02:57:00 - [81] - Quote Now, to the real heart of the matter: 1. Headshot bonus has effectively killed the existence for tiered sniper rifle skills; if a militia sniper can OHK all but a tanked-out heavy, what's the point in using anything stronger? 2. Almost all of the complaining about snipers essentially breaks down to how ridiculous the Thales was in comparison to all other variants; a well-placed Thales user was immune to everything except a fellow Thales user...who probably wasn't going to risk their own to try and hunt the other one down. 3. The damage bonus offered to Caldari Commandos only encourages the brick-tanked sniper that requires a headshot to kill; otherwise, you're just wasting bullets. 4. The recent changes made to map sockets (i.e. Manus Peak) further reduce the ability of a sniper to actively contribute to his side by playing point defense. Changes were made previously to make nodes less easy to target into, but the new map types have decided to enclose most everything inside of a building, leaving snipers with little else to do aside from try and pick off targets as they run across the map. Solutions: 1. Reduce the headshot bonus. Implement actual differences between the sniper tiers/types. Tactical variant--weakest, but with the best zoom, giving you the best chance to land a headshot. High RoF but small clip. Standard variant--stronger than tactical and with better range, but slower RoF and less powerful zoom Specialist variant--damage between tactical and standard, but with the furthest range and weakest zoom Charge variant--highest damage, largest clip but with slowest RoF and shortest range. The Thales would be a faster-charging version Give them a range of 425, 450, 475 and 400, respectively. 2. See above. The Thales was so overpowered that it killed an entire style of play. 3. Tough one to fix thanks to the inherent damage bonus given to commandos. However, the reduction to headshot bonuses would make it feasible to get close enough to counter. 4. Snipers need to be given the ability to scout and "mark" the opponent on an individual basis. One player at a time could be "tagged" and highlighted on the Tacnet--regardless of profile--with investment in the sniper class resulting in an increased duration of the tag. Snipers would then be rewarded with intel kill assist WP if the target is killed while tagged. This would eliminate the need for the bullet trails to give away a sniper's position as they can be tagged up to 500 meters away, further than any SR can reach. This would allow for a team to coordinate a counter strategy to neutralize the sniper. Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 907	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:19:00 - [82] - Quote The guy who took the lead on snipers isn't even a sniper.. (or an active player) Can you imagine the uproar if a popular role such as Scouts / Heavies / Tanks was handled by someone with no intimate knowledge of those roles? I feel entitled to be upset, about the changes and the guy who suggested them. I try to avoid sniping in the red line, there are drop ship only accessible locations in highly contested areas I would much rather frequent. Even from these locations however, enemy red line snipers with the new range nerf are immune. They're just too far away. I told Judge Rham that a range reduction would promote red line sniping instead of fixing it. I bet on the wrong horse however. I needed to be emailing the guy with 7,000 kills instead. What the ****. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 4483	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:45:00 - [83] - Quote Stopped reading during the headshot complaints. Um, that was the tradeoff for the range. It does massive damage if you manage to shoot a head. It's still a skill shot, and gun game thing. Why anyone should be able to tank a headshot from a sniper rifle in any game is beyond me.
xavier zor G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 188	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:47:00 - [84] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Stopped reading during the headshot complaints. Um, that was the tradeoff for the range. It does massive damage if you manage to shoot a head. It's still a skill shot, and gun game thing. Why anyone should be able to tank a headshot from a sniper rifle in any game is beyond me. Joel, is it possible to get a plasma cannon headshot?? Highest plasma cannon kill: 132 metres
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2812	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:49:00 - [85] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Stopped reading during the headshot complaints. Um, that was the tradeoff for the range. It does massive damage if you manage to shoot a head. It's still a skill shot, and gun game thing. Why anyone should be able to tank a headshot from a sniper rifle in any game is beyond me. Because unreachable snipers also want to be unkillable by the only thing with range to damage them. (Yes, you know its true. The main consequence of the sniper buff, aside from making it possible to kill Heavies is that it is easier to counter snipe unreachable snipers.) "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 4483	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:52:00 - [86] - Quote xavier zor wrote: Joel II X wrote: Stopped reading during the headshot complaints. Um, that was the tradeoff for the range. It does massive damage if you manage to shoot a head. It's still a skill shot, and gun game thing. Why anyone should be able to tank a headshot from a sniper rifle in any game is beyond me. Joel, is it possible to get a plasma cannon headshot?? Yes. It's been done before... On a sniper.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 165	Posted - 2014.11.10 05:52:00 - [87] - Quote Lloyd Orfay wrote: Snipers have screwed this game for long enough, and same for scouts. If you think snipers are even remotely close to scouts in terms of shitting up the game then you have some reality perception issues. Snipers are absolutely crap and have very little impact on even pub matches, whereas scout spam is one of the most effective things in the game and you see it in every god damn PC. Current state of snipers is that they still suck, though I do prefer the current sniper v. sniper dynamic, I really didnt like the heavy sniper being invincible unless brain dead before the current sniper rifles were put into place. Buff snipers so people actually care about them beyond being annoyed.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17673	Posted - 2014.11.10 06:19:00 - [88] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: The base damage increase isn't really noticeable. Before Delta I mag dumped into a heavy and didn't come close to killing him. This no longer happens in post delta. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17673	Posted - 2014.11.10 06:22:00 - [89] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: The guy who took the lead on snipers isn't even a sniper.. (or an active player) Can you imagine the uproar if a popular role such as Scouts / Heavies / Tanks was handled by someone with no intimate knowledge of those roles? I feel entitled to be upset, about the changes and the guy who suggested them. I try to avoid sniping in the red line, there are drop ship only accessible locations in highly contested areas I would much rather frequent. Even from these locations however, enemy red line snipers with the new range nerf are immune. They're just too far away. I told Judge Rham that a range reduction would promote red line sniping instead of fixing it. I bet on the wrong horse however. I needed to be emailing the guy with 7,000 kills instead. What the ****. Uhm hello, CPM work takes quite a bit out of your play time and for me that involves doing a bunch of things ingame that have nothing to with killing other players generally. Just about everything else. I mean I been told by other snipers that liked the old system that the headshot damage was negligible. Which is it? Also I did not generate the number I advised on them with input on both sides of the debate. Case in point the originally proposed by CCP Body Damage was exceptionally so high they would have been oneshotting scouts and mediums even regardless of tank and had to get it downed down significantly enough. CCP did set stronger goals that would have been without proper justification hard to argue otherwise. For example there was not one good reason why the range needed to stay 600 meters (whose excuses are shared with the 1200 meter necessity camp) Not enough to outweigh the map scores of good sniping spots. And if Vehicles are such a concern maybe we should bring back the KK Anti-material sniper rifle (I remember losing dropships to that horrible monster) CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17673	Posted - 2014.11.10 06:48:00 - [90] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Now, to the real heart of the matter: 1. Headshot bonus has effectively killed the existence for tiered sniper rifle skills; if a militia sniper can OHK all but a tanked-out heavy, what's the point in using anything stronger? 2. Almost all of the complaining about snipers essentially breaks down to how ridiculous the Thales was in comparison to all other variants; a well-placed Thales user was immune to everything except a fellow Thales user...who probably wasn't going to risk their own to try and hunt the other one down. 3. The damage bonus offered to Caldari Commandos only encourages the brick-tanked sniper that requires a headshot to kill; otherwise, you're just wasting bullets. 4. The recent changes made to map sockets (i.e. Manus Peak) further reduce the ability of a sniper to actively contribute to his side by playing point defense. Changes were made previously to make nodes less easy to target into, but the new map types have decided to enclose most everything inside of a building, leaving snipers with little else to do aside from try and pick off targets as they run across the map. Solutions: 1. Reduce the headshot bonus. Implement actual differences between the sniper tiers/types. Tactical variant--weakest, but with the best zoom, giving you the best chance to land a headshot. High RoF but small clip. Standard variant--stronger than tactical and with better range, but slower RoF and less powerful zoom Specialist variant--damage between tactical and standard, but with the furthest range and weakest zoom Charge variant--highest damage, largest clip but with slowest RoF and shortest range. The Thales would be a faster-charging version Give them a range of 425, 450, 475 and 400, respectively. 2. See above. The Thales was so overpowered that it killed an entire style of play. 3. Tough one to fix thanks to the inherent damage bonus given to commandos. However, the reduction to headshot bonuses would make it feasible to get close enough to counter. 4. Snipers need to be given the ability to scout and "mark" the opponent on an individual basis. One player at a time could be "tagged" and highlighted on the Tacnet--regardless of profile--with investment in the sniper class resulting in an increased duration of the tag. Snipers would then be rewarded with intel kill assist WP if the target is killed while tagged. This would eliminate the need for the bullet trails to give away a sniper's position as they can be tagged up to 500 meters away, further than any SR can reach. This would allow for a team to coordinate a counter strategy to neutralize the sniper. 1. Problem 1 is very valid. 2. This issue is moot now as thales is inline with the standard variant of rifles. Balacs inline with tacticals and symbs with charged. 3. A damage fitted cal mando has very difficult time surviving two body shots from lesser sniper fits, and if the calmando has the charge rifle the ishukone outranges him enough to get enough of an immunity to either force his head down or have him risk it long enough for you to fill him with holes. The calmando and commandos in general may be in need for tweaks but logistics are ranking higher on issues they're dealing with and the equipment logistics are supposed to be using. God forbid some GDer complains about killer bees again though. 4. The range reduction changes/changing ALOT of sniper behaviors, the idea of a choke point involving less of doorways and capture points these days. It may take some time before the behavior completely shifts about and figures new ways of application but maps while are troublesome to sniper design I don't think we are returning to ever allowing snipers to have 'easy targets' though. Yeah it sucks but I already found a few new good camping spots with the range reduction. Re: Solutions Headshot bonuses could be their scaled to encourage upgrading as a viable solution to that issue. Tactical as is I been getting very very very positive responses to as most of the emphasis is suppression and body shooting. Standards are a mixed bag as most of the folks I have been contact with are the older vets and none o the off GD folks. Though the few folks that are positive about say's its great for putting down other snipers. Charge is mostly untouched by anything positive because not many folks are skilled up to proto levels that I conversate with. Those that are are bitter I broke their favorite toy in general which was somewhat needed as thales and charge was the only two rifles you needed pre-delta. Specialist Prefix name generally means lower fittings from standard deflection at a cost so that goes that idea. Overall range buff is not off the table; just going to be a slightly harder fight and not every rifle may get to enjoy it. Just don't expect returns to 500+ meters unless something miraculous happens. Commando Damage is causing other issues elsewhere but they're lower priority I wish for a tag laser of sorts too... This would take some serious effort to find out feasibility and how to do this. Would love 'overwatch' WP+ for long range scouts. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked

Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 102	Posted - 2014.11.10 07:01:00 - [91] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: And if Vehicles are such a concern maybe we should bring back the KK Anti-material sniper rifle (I remember losing dropships to that horrible monster) Saw this, decided to chime in. THERE WAS AN ANTI-MATERIAL SNIPER RIFLE IN DUST?! Can we have something like it back? Not really full-on damage, but say, 50% efficiency on vehicles for the sniper rifles? Buff Logis \| Nerf Scouts
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. 51	Posted - 2014.11.10 08:35:00 - [92] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber: Re: Solutions Headshot bonuses could be their scaled to encourage upgrading as a viable solution to that issue. Tactical as is I been getting very very very positive responses to as most of the emphasis is suppression and body shooting. Standards are a mixed bag as most of the folks I have been contact with are the older vets and none o the off GD folks. Though the few folks that are positive about say's its great for putting down other snipers. Charge is mostly untouched by anything positive because not many folks are skilled up to proto levels that I conversate with. Those that are are bitter I broke their favorite toy in general which was somewhat needed as thales and charge was the only two rifles you needed pre-delta. My main complaint, other than the ones I already agree with from Symb's post, is CCP deliberately shitting on the Charged SR over favoritism. There was no reason that the most difficult to learn and use SR variant had to get a clip reduction AND major range reduction all for the sake of having the highest headshot multiplier. If you land a shot, you had to charge at least half a shot to do a follow-up shot if they don't die. With that, there's a reduction in damage, as opposed to a fully charged second shot. Coupled with its low RoF, smart targets don't stay still but move to cover. You do understand that, with the small base damage of most other SR variants, outside the Thale's, the Charged was the only real viable SR for both pub and PC play, correct? Anything else practically tickled targets, or, in the case of the tactical, was used for countersniping, especially if the targets were brick tanking. No other role than the sniper has to stack 3 damage mods, use a Calmando, and use a proto variant of their weapon of choice to compete. THAT's the main reason why you only saw this SR variant used. Now, you've defined other sniper variant uses, but at the same time sort of negated the Charged SR's headshot bonus, as a basic SR has a high enough multiplier to take out most suits (from what I've read). GG CCP. I've only logged on twice since 1.8 and 1.9 went live, mainly cause there's no point right now. Other than that, it's been collecting DUST. I see you coming from a mile away. 18 KDR. Twittter: SkylineExplicit
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17676	Posted - 2014.11.10 09:06:00 - [93] - Quote Skyline Lonewolf wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Re: Solutions Headshot bonuses could be their scaled to encourage upgrading as a viable solution to that issue. Tactical as is I been getting very very very positive responses to as most of the emphasis is suppression and body shooting. Standards are a mixed bag as most of the folks I have been contact with are the older vets and none o the off GD folks. Though the few folks that are positive about say's its great for putting down other snipers. Charge is mostly untouched by anything positive because not many folks are skilled up to proto levels that I conversate with. Those that are are bitter I broke their favorite toy in general which was somewhat needed as thales and charge was the only two rifles you needed pre-delta. My main complaint, other than the ones I already agree with from Symb's post, is CCP deliberately shitting on the Charged SR over favoritism. There was no reason that the most difficult to learn and use SR variant had to get a clip reduction AND major range reduction all for the sake of having the highest headshot multiplier. If you land a shot, you had to charge at least half a shot to do a follow-up shot if they don't die. With that, there's a reduction in damage, as opposed to a fully charged second shot. Coupled with its low RoF, smart targets don't stay still but move to cover. You do understand that, with the small base damage of most other SR variants, outside the Thale's, the Charged was the only real viable SR for both pub and PC play, correct? Anything else practically tickled targets, or, in the case of the tactical, was used for countersniping, especially if the targets were brick tanking. No other role than the sniper has to stack 3 damage mods, use a Calmando, and use a proto variant of their weapon of choice to compete. THAT's the main reason why you only saw this SR variant used. Now, you've defined other sniper variant uses, but at the same time sort of negated the Charged SR's headshot bonus, as a basic SR has a high enough multiplier to take out most suits (from what I've read). GG CCP. I've only logged on twice since 1.8 and 1.9 went live, mainly cause there's no point right now. Other than that, it's been collecting DUST. Would setting min charge to 0 be more favorable of a fix? (ala scrambler rifle) Mind you that this current getup is keeping in mind other things that may screw with how things are depending on how Game Design wants to move forward. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17676	Posted - 2014.11.10 09:08:00 - [94] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: And if Vehicles are such a concern maybe we should bring back the KK Anti-material sniper rifle (I remember losing dropships to that horrible monster) Saw this, decided to chime in. THERE WAS AN ANTI-MATERIAL SNIPER RIFLE IN DUST?! Can we have something like it back? Not really full-on damage, but say, 50% efficiency on vehicles for the sniper rifles? Closed Beta; shot down Dropships and LAVs you HAD to hit weak spots to do significant amount of damage to cause that threat and it was only good on wounded vehicles. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4373	Posted - 2014.11.10 19:50:00 - [95] - Quote I have probably about 4k kills with sniper rifles. Did not know that made me the most experienced sniper serving on the CPM. But comparing my experience to others on the CPM is not worthwhile because my sample size is just waaaay higher than anyone else's. I have more kills than Cross, Soraya, IWS, and Dennie combined. Meaning that I have more experience using almost every weapon in the game in comparison. I wish that meant something other than bragging rights, but alas experience does not net you a monopoly on good ideas. I still wish you just penalized people shooting into or out of the redline. Like a 80% reduced efficiency damage...in or out. Redlined? At least you take 20% damage while you mount a push... Sure snipers need more places to snipe from for perch sniping while not in the redline perhaps, but I still would like to see redline shooting to get nerfed. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Cass Caul 1524	Posted - 2014.11.10 20:17:00 - [96] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: I have probably about 4k kills with sniper rifles. Did not know that made me the most experienced sniper serving on the CPM. But comparing my experience to others on the CPM is not worthwhile because my sample size is just waaaay higher than anyone else's. I have more kills than Cross, Soraya, IWS, and Dennie combined. Meaning that I have more experience using almost every weapon in the game in comparison. I wish that meant something other than bragging rights, but alas experience does not net you a monopoly on good ideas. I still wish you just penalized people shooting into or out of the redline. Like a 80% reduced efficiency damage...in or out. Redlined? At least you take 20% damage while you mount a push... Sure snipers need more places to snipe from for perch sniping while not in the redline perhaps, but I still would like to see redline shooting to get nerfed. So that pretty much sums it up. The CPM has either majority or unanimous consensus that as long as red-line sniping exists, the Sniper Rifle isn't allowed to be a competitive weapon. There was a reason the second PC team I was on fielded 2-3 snipers per match. But rotating null cannons and increased HP pretty much put a stop to that. Considering 2 snipers in a match was something we did while corpmates, zatara. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
Everything Dies FUNNY NAME GOES HERE 1071	Posted - 2014.11.10 20:29:00 - [97] - Quote Skyline Lonewolf wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Re: Solutions Headshot bonuses could be their scaled to encourage upgrading as a viable solution to that issue. Tactical as is I been getting very very very positive responses to as most of the emphasis is suppression and body shooting. Standards are a mixed bag as most of the folks I have been contact with are the older vets and none o the off GD folks. Though the few folks that are positive about say's its great for putting down other snipers. Charge is mostly untouched by anything positive because not many folks are skilled up to proto levels that I conversate with. Those that are are bitter I broke their favorite toy in general which was somewhat needed as thales and charge was the only two rifles you needed pre-delta. My main complaint, other than the ones I already agree with from Symb's post, is CCP deliberately shitting on the Charged SR over favoritism. There was no reason that the most difficult to learn and use SR variant had to get a clip reduction AND major range reduction all for the sake of having the highest headshot multiplier. If you land a shot, you had to charge at least half a shot to do a follow-up shot if they don't die. With that, there's a reduction in damage, as opposed to a fully charged second shot. Coupled with its low RoF, smart targets don't stay still but move to cover. You do understand that, with the small base damage of most other SR variants, outside the Thale's, the Charged was the only real viable SR for both pub and PC play, correct? Anything else practically tickled targets, or, in the case of the tactical, was used for countersniping, especially if the targets were brick tanking. No other role than the sniper has to stack 3 damage mods, use a Calmando, and use a proto variant of their weapon of choice to compete. THAT's the main reason why you only saw this SR variant used. Now, you've defined other sniper variant uses, but at the same time sort of negated the Charged SR's headshot bonus, as a basic SR has a high enough multiplier to take out most suits (from what I've read). GG CCP. I've only logged on twice since 1.8 and 1.9 went live, mainly cause there's no point right now. Other than that, it's been collecting DUST. Given the slow rate of fire/charge-up time on the charged version, would it be fair to give it the largest clip size? Maybe 8-10 shots? Seems like a reasonable trade-off to me... Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17687	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:03:00 - [98] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Skyline Lonewolf wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Re: Solutions Headshot bonuses could be their scaled to encourage upgrading as a viable solution to that issue. Tactical as is I been getting very very very positive responses to as most of the emphasis is suppression and body shooting. Standards are a mixed bag as most of the folks I have been contact with are the older vets and none o the off GD folks. Though the few folks that are positive about say's its great for putting down other snipers. Charge is mostly untouched by anything positive because not many folks are skilled up to proto levels that I conversate with. Those that are are bitter I broke their favorite toy in general which was somewhat needed as thales and charge was the only two rifles you needed pre-delta. My main complaint, other than the ones I already agree with from Symb's post, is CCP deliberately shitting on the Charged SR over favoritism. There was no reason that the most difficult to learn and use SR variant had to get a clip reduction AND major range reduction all for the sake of having the highest headshot multiplier. If you land a shot, you had to charge at least half a shot to do a follow-up shot if they don't die. With that, there's a reduction in damage, as opposed to a fully charged second shot. Coupled with its low RoF, smart targets don't stay still but move to cover. You do understand that, with the small base damage of most other SR variants, outside the Thale's, the Charged was the only real viable SR for both pub and PC play, correct? Anything else practically tickled targets, or, in the case of the tactical, was used for countersniping, especially if the targets were brick tanking. No other role than the sniper has to stack 3 damage mods, use a Calmando, and use a proto variant of their weapon of choice to compete. THAT's the main reason why you only saw this SR variant used. Now, you've defined other sniper variant uses, but at the same time sort of negated the Charged SR's headshot bonus, as a basic SR has a high enough multiplier to take out most suits (from what I've read). GG CCP. I've only logged on twice since 1.8 and 1.9 went live, mainly cause there's no point right now. Other than that, it's been collecting DUST. Given the slow rate of fire/charge-up time on the charged version, would it be fair to give it the largest clip size? Maybe 8-10 shots? Seems like a reasonable trade-off to me... I disagree, the Charge Rifle ability to just about nearly guaranteed to put down almost ANY suit warrants disfavorable stats. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
castba Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 636	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:35:00 - [99] - Quote sabre prime wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: So you have no problem with the fact that you can oneshot everyone else... But if they oneshot you it's unfair. Get out. I don't often respond like this. But you're stupid. How did you come up with that response from symbs original post? Edit: before anyone starts getting their knickers in a twist let me support symbs. In very simple terms, sniping has been turned into 'i headshot you, you headshot me'. Or 'I one shot you, you one shot me'. CCP went too far with the damage increases and the ridiculous headshot multipliers. They reduced and simplified the sniping role, instead of building on it's tactical usefulness. Correction, sniping has been turned into a role that requires mobility. Camp in one spot too long and reds will come after you, usually quite effectively. "When everything is OP, nothing is" - CCP Ratatti
manboar thunder fist xTHExKKKx 235	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:40:00 - [100] - Quote Still get 90% of snipers in the redline with snipers since redlined were moved closer to objectives. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr

Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 13594	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:41:00 - [101] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Still get 90% of snipers in the redline with snipers since redlined were moved closer to objectives. Those aren't Snipers, they're AFKers outside of the MCC who's character just so happens to be holding a Sniper Rifle. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
manboar thunder fist xTHExKKKx 235	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:44:00 - [102] - Quote You mean aim assist is so op those afkers just seem to go 20-0 every match with damn op tactical snipers?! Wow thanks atiim you enlightened me :) NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 13594	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:47:00 - [103] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: You mean aim assist is so op those afkers just seem to go 20-0 every match with damn op tactical snipers?! Wow thanks atiim you enlightened me :) If a Sniper goes 20/0 you and your team are either garbage, or he's a better player than everyone on your team combined. Given how most Snipers I know either speced out of them or quit, it's most likely the former. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
manboar thunder fist xTHExKKKx 236	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:50:00 - [104] - Quote Atiim you're an op minmando roof camper so you wouldn't know though. Do you even dust bro? 50% of the team is noobs, 30% is amateurs and the remainder win the game. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 928	Posted - 2014.11.11 00:50:00 - [105] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Skyline Lonewolf wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Re: Solutions Headshot bonuses could be their scaled to encourage upgrading as a viable solution to that issue. Tactical as is I been getting very very very positive responses to as most of the emphasis is suppression and body shooting. Standards are a mixed bag as most of the folks I have been contact with are the older vets and none o the off GD folks. Though the few folks that are positive about say's its great for putting down other snipers. Charge is mostly untouched by anything positive because not many folks are skilled up to proto levels that I conversate with. Those that are are bitter I broke their favorite toy in general which was somewhat needed as thales and charge was the only two rifles you needed pre-delta. My main complaint, other than the ones I already agree with from Symb's post, is CCP deliberately shitting on the Charged SR over favoritism. There was no reason that the most difficult to learn and use SR variant had to get a clip reduction AND major range reduction all for the sake of having the highest headshot multiplier. If you land a shot, you had to charge at least half a shot to do a follow-up shot if they don't die. With that, there's a reduction in damage, as opposed to a fully charged second shot. Coupled with its low RoF, smart targets don't stay still but move to cover. You do understand that, with the small base damage of most other SR variants, outside the Thale's, the Charged was the only real viable SR for both pub and PC play, correct? Anything else practically tickled targets, or, in the case of the tactical, was used for countersniping, especially if the targets were brick tanking. No other role than the sniper has to stack 3 damage mods, use a Calmando, and use a proto variant of their weapon of choice to compete. THAT's the main reason why you only saw this SR variant used. Now, you've defined other sniper variant uses, but at the same time sort of negated the Charged SR's headshot bonus, as a basic SR has a high enough multiplier to take out most suits (from what I've read). GG CCP. I've only logged on twice since 1.8 and 1.9 went live, mainly cause there's no point right now. Other than that, it's been collecting DUST. Given the slow rate of fire/charge-up time on the charged version, would it be fair to give it the largest clip size? Maybe 8-10 shots? Seems like a reasonable trade-off to me... I disagree, the Charge Rifle ability to just about nearly guaranteed to put down almost ANY suit warrants disfavorable stats. The executioner style Charge is seriously stupid. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 928	Posted - 2014.11.11 00:51:00 - [106] - Quote Atiim wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: You mean aim assist is so op those afkers just seem to go 20-0 every match with damn op tactical snipers?! Wow thanks atiim you enlightened me :) If a Sniper goes 20/0 you and your team are either garbage, or he's a better player than everyone on your team combined. Given how most Snipers I know either speced out of them or quit, it's most likely the former. Dedicated Snipers don't exist any more. It's not a role worth specializing into, and the job of a sniper is easily filled by a Forge Gun / ADS. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Cass Caul 1526	Posted - 2014.11.11 00:52:00 - [107] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Still get 90% of snipers in the redline with snipers since redlined were moved closer to objectives. I liked the old Manus Peak red-line. It's the reason Symb and I can talk about 700m+ kills. That map used to be Huuuuge. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
Cass Caul 1526	Posted - 2014.11.11 00:53:00 - [108] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: You mean aim assist is so op those afkers just seem to go 20-0 every match with damn op tactical snipers?! Wow thanks atiim you enlightened me :) . . . um, wow, the ignorance is palpable. The Sniper Rifle does not have any form of aim assist and it never has. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 928	Posted - 2014.11.11 00:54:00 - [109] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Atiim you're an op minmando roof camper so you wouldn't know though. Do you even dust bro? 50% of the team is noobs, 30% is amateurs and the remainder win the game. Suits don't matter when MLT / STD sniper rifles do just as well as prototype. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 928	Posted - 2014.11.11 00:55:00 - [110] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: Still get 90% of snipers in the redline with snipers since redlined were moved closer to objectives. I liked the old Manus Peak red-line. It's the reason Symb and I can talk about 700m+ kills. That map used to be Huuuuge. And every good squad had a sniper in it. You needed it for recon on large maps. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)

Cass Caul 1526	Posted - 2014.11.11 00:57:00 - [111] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Skyline Lonewolf wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Re: Solutions Headshot bonuses could be their scaled to encourage upgrading as a viable solution to that issue. Tactical as is I been getting very very very positive responses to as most of the emphasis is suppression and body shooting. Standards are a mixed bag as most of the folks I have been contact with are the older vets and none o the off GD folks. Though the few folks that are positive about say's its great for putting down other snipers. Charge is mostly untouched by anything positive because not many folks are skilled up to proto levels that I conversate with. Those that are are bitter I broke their favorite toy in general which was somewhat needed as thales and charge was the only two rifles you needed pre-delta. My main complaint, other than the ones I already agree with from Symb's post, is CCP deliberately shitting on the Charged SR over favoritism. There was no reason that the most difficult to learn and use SR variant had to get a clip reduction AND major range reduction all for the sake of having the highest headshot multiplier. If you land a shot, you had to charge at least half a shot to do a follow-up shot if they don't die. With that, there's a reduction in damage, as opposed to a fully charged second shot. Coupled with its low RoF, smart targets don't stay still but move to cover. You do understand that, with the small base damage of most other SR variants, outside the Thale's, the Charged was the only real viable SR for both pub and PC play, correct? Anything else practically tickled targets, or, in the case of the tactical, was used for countersniping, especially if the targets were brick tanking. No other role than the sniper has to stack 3 damage mods, use a Calmando, and use a proto variant of their weapon of choice to compete. THAT's the main reason why you only saw this SR variant used. Now, you've defined other sniper variant uses, but at the same time sort of negated the Charged SR's headshot bonus, as a basic SR has a high enough multiplier to take out most suits (from what I've read). GG CCP. I've only logged on twice since 1.8 and 1.9 went live, mainly cause there's no point right now. Other than that, it's been collecting DUST. Given the slow rate of fire/charge-up time on the charged version, would it be fair to give it the largest clip size? Maybe 8-10 shots? Seems like a reasonable trade-off to me... I disagree, the Charge Rifle ability to just about nearly guaranteed to put down almost ANY suit warrants disfavorable stats. The executioner style Charge is seriously stupid. It wouldn't be nearly as stupid if: You could increase precision by strafing without resetting the sway animation Hit detection worked 100% of the time Small map assessts such as boxes and railings/fences were always rendered all players rendered regardless of if they are scanned, regardless of distance from you, regardless of line of sight. There were actually places to go where a sniper could get line of sight on where heavy foot-trafic exists outside 100m On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
Cass Caul 1526	Posted - 2014.11.11 00:59:00 - [112] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Cass Caul wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: Still get 90% of snipers in the redline with snipers since redlined were moved closer to objectives. I liked the old Manus Peak red-line. It's the reason Symb and I can talk about 700m+ kills. That map used to be Huuuuge. And every good squad had a sniper in it. You needed it for recon on large maps. Squad? No. Not when squads were 4 man teams. Having 4 snipers was detrimental to the team, as 2 would be skilled if lucky. Back when Corp Battles were a thing, every team had a sniper on it as well. I loved corp battles, I would get so many kills sniping when you could actually see your opponents before your squad, on the ground, that's closer could On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
manboar thunder fist xTHExKKKx 239	Posted - 2014.11.11 01:00:00 - [113] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: You mean aim assist is so op those afkers just seem to go 20-0 every match with damn op tactical snipers?! Wow thanks atiim you enlightened me :) . . . um, wow, the ignorance is palpable. The Sniper Rifle does not have any form of aim assist and it never has. Do you even sarcasm bro? NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4375	Posted - 2014.11.11 01:05:00 - [114] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: Cass Caul wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: Still get 90% of snipers in the redline with snipers since redlined were moved closer to objectives. I liked the old Manus Peak red-line. It's the reason Symb and I can talk about 700m+ kills. That map used to be Huuuuge. And every good squad had a sniper in it. You needed it for recon on large maps. Squad? No. Not when squads were 4 man teams. Having 4 snipers was detrimental to the team, as 2 would be skilled if lucky. Back when Corp Battles were a thing, every team had a sniper on it as well. I loved corp battles, I would get so many kills sniping when you could actually see your opponents before your squad, on the ground, that's closer could Just because in chrome i was specced sniper didn't mean i used it. Agree with Sym. You wanted a squad to have the capacity to have a decent sniper. I don't think he was suggesting battles needed 4 snipers. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 928	Posted - 2014.11.11 01:06:00 - [115] - Quote I want the club sandwich, the cold mexican beer, I want a $10,000 a night hooker. I also want.. the old Charge Sniper Rifle, (that could reasonably kill without excessive body shots, and required skill to operate, and fair headshot damage) the old 600m Ranges, (because red line snipers have to die, because sometimes there's nothing to shoot at and I'm in a fixed position, becauase if my dot is bigger than your entire body and I'm wasting the time and effort lining up shots on you, perhaps I'm not as #winning as you think) (compromise?) 500 Charge 500 Standard 350 Tactical the headshot damage scaled back to reasonable levels supplemented with a base damage increase to increase overall time to kill for sniper rifles. 20% base damage increase with 25% increased headshot damage? The headshot should be a bonus, not a limiting factor to the usefulness of the sniper rifle. There aren't enough bullets in a clip to kill a heavy without a headshot as is.. feels terrible in use. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 928	Posted - 2014.11.11 01:10:00 - [116] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: Cass Caul wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: Still get 90% of snipers in the redline with snipers since redlined were moved closer to objectives. I liked the old Manus Peak red-line. It's the reason Symb and I can talk about 700m+ kills. That map used to be Huuuuge. And every good squad had a sniper in it. You needed it for recon on large maps. Squad? No. Not when squads were 4 man teams. Having 4 snipers was detrimental to the team, as 2 would be skilled if lucky. Back when Corp Battles were a thing, every team had a sniper on it as well. I loved corp battles, I would get so many kills sniping when you could actually see your opponents before your squad, on the ground, that's closer could Well there might be only 1-2 good squads per team.. the others were average or worse usually. If you had 4 good squads, those snipers would also be good, you could afford it. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 928	Posted - 2014.11.11 01:24:00 - [117] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: I have probably about 4k kills with sniper rifles. Did not know that made me the most experienced sniper serving on the CPM. But comparing my experience to others on the CPM is not worthwhile because my sample size is just waaaay higher than anyone else's. I have more kills than Cross, Soraya, IWS, and Dennie combined. Meaning that I have more experience using almost every weapon in the game in comparison. I wish that meant something other than bragging rights, but alas experience does not net you a monopoly on good ideas. I still wish you just penalized people shooting into or out of the redline. Like a 80% reduced efficiency damage...in or out. Redlined? At least you take 20% damage while you mount a push... Sure snipers need more places to snipe from for perch sniping while not in the redline perhaps, but I still would like to see redline shooting to get nerfed. It's clear to me you should have been put in charge of sniper rifles :) You have experience with their use in competitive play, and what it would take to make them worth using. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 929	Posted - 2014.11.11 01:33:00 - [118] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: The guy who took the lead on snipers isn't even a sniper.. (or an active player) Can you imagine the uproar if a popular role such as Scouts / Heavies / Tanks was handled by someone with no intimate knowledge of those roles? I feel entitled to be upset, about the changes and the guy who suggested them. I try to avoid sniping in the red line, there are drop ship only accessible locations in highly contested areas I would much rather frequent. Even from these locations however, enemy red line snipers with the new range nerf are immune. They're just too far away. I told Judge Rham that a range reduction would promote red line sniping instead of fixing it. I bet on the wrong horse however. I needed to be emailing the guy with 7,000 kills instead. What the ***. Uhm hello, CPM work takes quite a bit out of your play time and for me that involves doing a bunch of things ingame that have nothing to with killing other players generally. Just about everything else. I mean I been told by other snipers that liked the old system that the headshot damage was negligible. Which is it? Also I did not generate the number I advised on them with input on both sides of the debate. Case in point the originally proposed by CCP Body Damage was exceptionally so high they would have been oneshotting scouts and mediums even regardless of tank and had to get it downed down significantly enough. CCP did set stronger goals that would have been without proper justification hard to argue otherwise. For example there was not one good reason why the range needed to stay 600 meters (whose excuses are shared with the 1200 meter necessity camp) Not enough to outweigh the map scores of good sniping spots. The most amount of design leeway I got was my opinions with the tactical which saw to its improved field use. And if Vehicles are such a concern maybe we should bring back the KK Anti-material sniper rifle (I remember losing dropships to that horrible monster) They had that number because of the range reduction. 50% range reduction for 50% increased damage. 1:1 ratio They had that number because the community said.. 1 shot to kill a scout (1 headshot) 2 shots to kill a medium (1 headshot) 3 shots to kill a heavy 1 headshot 1 bodyshot) (Scale this up from STD vs STD to ADV vs ADV to PRO vs PRO , as to not have STD 1 shotting a PRO scout.*) as the way it should have always been! Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Kayla Michael Tactical Logistics and Cargo Northern Associates. 11	Posted - 2014.11.11 01:47:00 - [119] - Quote What ever is done onto others will be done onto you and me. Lets make wise decisions, because in DUST 514 what goes around comes around.
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 103	Posted - 2014.11.11 06:16:00 - [120] - Quote As someone who only dabbled in sniping, both before and after the changes... I have to say I love the new Tac rifle far more than the old. The circle reticle is awesome, the higher capacity is significantly more appropriate to the weapon IMO, and overall it just feels better than it used to. Buff Logis \| Nerf Scouts

Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. 52	Posted - 2014.11.11 10:16:00 - [121] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Skyline Lonewolf wrote: [quote=Iron Wolf Saber] Re: Solutions Headshot bonuses could be their scaled to encourage upgrading as a viable solution to that issue. Tactical as is I been getting very very very positive responses to as most of the emphasis is suppression and body shooting. Standards are a mixed bag as most of the folks I have been contact with are the older vets and none o the off GD folks. Though the few folks that are positive about say's its great for putting down other snipers. Charge is mostly untouched by anything positive because not many folks are skilled up to proto levels that I conversate with. Those that are are bitter I broke their favorite toy in general which was somewhat needed as thales and charge was the only two rifles you needed pre-delta. My main complaint, other than the ones I already agree with from Symb's post, is CCP deliberately shitting on the Charged SR over favoritism. There was no reason that the most difficult to learn and use SR variant had to get a clip reduction AND major range reduction all for the sake of having the highest headshot multiplier. If you land a shot, you had to charge at least half a shot to do a follow-up shot if they don't die. With that, there's a reduction in damage, as opposed to a fully charged second shot. Coupled with its low RoF, smart targets don't stay still but move to cover. You do understand that, with the small base damage of most other SR variants, outside the Thale's, the Charged was the only real viable SR for both pub and PC play, correct? Anything else practically tickled targets, or, in the case of the tactical, was used for countersniping, especially if the targets were brick tanking. No other role than the sniper has to stack 3 damage mods, use a Calmando, and use a proto variant of their weapon of choice to compete. THAT's the main reason why you only saw this SR variant used. Now, you've defined other sniper variant uses, but at the same time sort of negated the Charged SR's headshot bonus, as a basic SR has a high enough multiplier to take out most suits (from what I've read). GG CCP. I've only logged on twice since 1.8 and 1.9 went live, mainly cause there's no point right now. Other than that, it's been collecting DUST. Given the slow rate of fire/charge-up time on the charged version, would it be fair to give it the largest clip size? Maybe 8-10 shots? Seems like a reasonable trade-off to me... I disagree, the Charge Rifle ability to just about nearly guaranteed to put down almost ANY suit warrants disfavorable stats. Only in skilled hands it could. Keeping the clip at 5/25 was the magic medium imo. In my experience, the below average Charged SR user would pull ~10 kill games (redline), the average Charged SR user would pull 10-15 kill games; an above average player, 15-25, an elite (rare in this build) 25-30 consistently, and occasionally 30-40+. It all varied with enemy diffiiculty, enemy behavior, game mode, sniper skill, perch selection, situational and map awareness, and map type. That was pre-1.8 and only in pubs - including missed shots and ammo restocks/flying back to, or changing perches. That seems pretty balanced to me compared to how much rifle user kills people net. Now it doesn't seem like much of that matters since you've got trails coming out of your SR and can be easily tracked. Setting the pre-charge to 0 would break the weapon if you mean reducing it's charge time. That's part of the learning curve and balance for the weapon, which has a trade off of being the main deterrent for people to not use the weapon. Most people I met that sniped hated the charge mechanic and its noise. I really don't know where you get your data from, cause if it's from the kill feed prior to 1.8, I've explained that above. Considering the other SR variants got buffs, I think this one should be reverted back to before 1.8, with some tweaks, and the suggested compromises. It's the only one that actually requires skill to use, even in this build, yet it took the biggest nerf. And while we're at it, go ahead and tell CCP to look at their data and see how many precision kills people have been getting using solely the Charged SR post 1.8. I'm willing to bet not even 1/3 of most peoples' kills per match are head shots. I see you coming from a mile away. 18 KDR. Twittter: SkylineExplicit
Kuruld Sengar Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 34	Posted - 2014.11.11 10:58:00 - [122] - Quote I may be only a casual sniper, but I agree that snipers are a bit too simple now. It used to be that I would have prolonged sniper battles with players, and they were actually very fun. Now it seems any random joe in a starter sniper fit can come along and one off a proto sniper unless they are using a sentinel/commando...
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 931	Posted - 2014.11.12 23:20:00 - [123] - Quote Amazing actual feedback. Thanks guys. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Hakyou Brutor Capital Acquisitions LLC 1574	Posted - 2014.11.12 23:25:00 - [124] - Quote I wasted my SP on sniper rifle the night of my respec... I was tired... I just wanted to try out your new officer sniper... why is there still no trial? Knight Soiaire = my bae
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 931	Posted - 2014.11.12 23:39:00 - [125] - Quote You know sniping is terrible when even I refuse to do it. I state this as fact. Sniping has gone from useful to useless over the past several years in Dust 514. I've sniped since release, for over 40,000-45,000 kills. As conditions have declined for snipers it's taken more effort and skill to perform well. I can make this claim. Eventually people picked up sniping as a excuse to use Thale's. This created some problems as many veteran players had stockpiles of 50-100 of them and their abuse became somewhat common in public matches. However the stats of the weapon were right on par for what was needed for PC matches. As a dedicated sniper this was upsetting. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 933	Posted - 2014.11.13 00:12:00 - [126] - Quote Extended Ranges (upwards of 600m) is a defining characteristic for sniper rifles. between cloaks / cover / interior buildings / vehicles / excessive amounts of health The range was acceptable with previous damage levels, and still not game breaking or unfair. sometimes the best target was 400-550m away (the guy loading up a dropship that is surely coming to kill you) sometimes the the best way to kill a red line sniper is with another sniper (central elevated position > red line head glitching) sometimes contested objectives shift and calling in a drop ship every time this happens is unreasonable for perch snipers. (good spots have been made useless because they don't cover enough ground to help protect multiple objectives) Conisder, nothing was given / updated for snipers to help deal with.. reduced proficiency (15% increased damage to just 15% increased damage against armor) reduced complex light damage mods (from 10% to 5% to now 7% with stacking penalties) increased HIGH/LOW slot suit loadouts for additional EHP (see new scouts / redesigned assaults) increased armor plates (remember when those got buffed?) increased heavy EHP with RESISTANCES (another possible 15% damage loss) This created a disparity, too little damage attempting to deal with too much health. Normalization at the cost of range (effectiveness) was not a favorable trade. Snipers were supposed to get slightly better from the update with little to no "role reduction". This was supposed to be a buff, not a REDESIGN. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)


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