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Symbioticforks
Pure Evil. Capital Punishment.
857
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Posted - 2014.11.08 08:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
a number of things upset me..
- New dot for sniper rifle is too tiny (you lose sight of it on white backgrounds) hurts target acquisition on moving targets, too small to tell you're on target by direct line of sight color change. I would like to propose changing it back to the original dot.
-Charge sniper rifle noise is ultra annoying, headache inducing, this never got "fixed" because nobody with influence ever cared or sniped for that matter.
-Sniper rifle range on some of the larger maps created scenarios where I could see enemies that I could not shoot. i.e. 6 tower map.. from the tower top closest my MCC to the middle tower top across the center of the map overlooking the domination objective, was out of range of each other. 350m+ away. Stupid.
-Headshot damage is way too high on sniper rifles, eliminating the whole "gun game" / "gun play" between sniper on sniper. If someone decides to counter snipe you after you kill them on the ground, they can come back from any direction and line up a headshot. In the past it took more than 1 bullet to kill a sniper, allowing for the one being shot to have a small window to move, possibly make it to cover and return fire. The better sniper would win out usually. THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. My proposed changes wouldn't have created this zero skill scenario. (Good job IWS) See this link!
-The removal of the old Charge Sniper Rifle from the game. High damage body shots with enough bullets in the clip to allow you to miss a shot without having the huge penalty of reloading and reacquiring your target + stabilization time. You added the "executioner" and the "wanna be quickscoping tactical" but at the cost of removing the most solid sniper rifle from the game. !@#% me. Nobody asked for those two additional sniper rifle types at the cost of removing the Charge. I know you do what you want, I also know you listen from time to time. My proposed changes weren't complicated, and certainly not drastic. The game state for a sniper I feel is as awful as it has ever been. Since I know you like solutions, I suggest going back to Charlie sniper rifles / ranges / damage and increase the base damage and headshot damage each slightly. Instead of creating new gun types that aren't even good enough for PC matches. The 5 round clip Charge was at best a bad Thale's. Now there is seriously nothing close.
You went all in on making the sniper rifle a "precision / lucky bullet weapon" and it's horrible (in my humble opinion). I wish things were different, and above all I wish I found this game more appealing. I cannot recreate the fluidity and finesse of my Dust 514 sniping videos in the current game state. (someone at CCP please watch one)
I'm hating sniping, and therefore Dust 514.
Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
4670
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Posted - 2014.11.08 08:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
So you have no problem with the fact that you can oneshot everyone else...
But if they oneshot you it's unfair.
Get out.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Symbioticforks
Pure Evil. Capital Punishment.
857
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Posted - 2014.11.08 08:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Not sure what you mean? or how you got that from what I said.
Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
4670
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Posted - 2014.11.08 08:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Symbioticforks wrote:Not sure what you mean? or how you got that from what I said.
At no point did you say you had a problem with killing any other player on the field with a headshot.
And bluntly retaliation vs. Snipers should be a thing. Since they were brought closer to retaliation range (to everyone who wanted to remain untouchable DIAF) snipers needed better killing power or they would have become useless.
What this means is you are now more vulnerable to me getting mad at your existence and terminating your existence in retaliation for costing me an expensive fit or keeping me from accomplishing objectives.
Snipers have enjoyed easy and risk free kills unless a counter sniper brought out a thale to retaliate.
This is no longer the case and the change is welcome.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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sabre prime
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
737
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Posted - 2014.11.08 08:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:So you have no problem with the fact that you can oneshot everyone else...
But if they oneshot you it's unfair.
Get out. I don't often respond like this. But you're stupid. How did you come up with that response from symbs original post?
The slow blade penetrates the shield.
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Symbioticforks
Pure Evil. Capital Punishment.
857
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Posted - 2014.11.08 09:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
I never said I want to kill every suit in the game with a headshot.
If anything it's been said that a heavy should be able to sustain 1 headshot, and die to a follow up bodyshot from a charge sniper rifle. Meaning it would likely take 1 headshot and 2 bodyshots from a standard sniper rifle
SEE MY PROPOSED CHANGES (the ones given before the current build)
I suppose I should break it down for you some more.
Snipers have had many hard counters in the past and more now, including the Militia Sniper Rifle more than ever.
In the past the Tactical Sniper Rifle was used as the best choice to counter snipe another sniper.. zero recoil double-triple headshot with increased zoom. Now every sniper rifle fills this same role, but even better.
You assumed I didn't speak up, but why should I when it's simply because you haven't followed the discussion for long enough.
Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
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Protocake JR
USA Caucasians
1558
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Posted - 2014.11.08 09:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Perhaps snipers shouldn't sit in one spot all match. Sniping should require repositioning, if you've been discovered.
Pitching a tent on top of a tower is what is ruining this game. |
Symbioticforks
Pure Evil. Capital Punishment.
857
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Posted - 2014.11.08 09:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
My forge gunner camps rooftops like a boss..
my alternate self is highly offended by your remark.
also.. SNIPER/SWARMS combo at the cost of close range defense I feel negates your argument for "maybe snipers should move if discovered".
Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
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Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property
894
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Posted - 2014.11.08 09:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
I've had the most fun I've ever had with a sniper rifle Symb. At least in this game...
I personally like the way a sniper rifle works now. It allows a more... mobile... sniping play style. I've never been for all the hiding in the hills or on some tower picking off the weak.
I can find an area to settle down for a few shots, kill 1-2 people. Then relocate entirely. I'll usually find some defilade to snipe from. A rock. A LAV. A small mound of dirt. Whatever.
Yeah, you can't sit in one place for too long without someone in a Starter Sniper popping you, but that's what makes it fun.
Hell, just two days ago, I was sniping from the dead center of the map, from the ground too! I had my eyes on a fine trophy as well. A Thales was just sitting right on top of the enemy MCC. I popped him in the head. He's dead now.
Swag-suit4lyfe!
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Symbioticforks
Pure Evil. Capital Punishment.
857
|
Posted - 2014.11.08 09:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
What's changed for you to make it better?
I personally prefer precision point defense, and overwatch to hit and run sniper game play. In point defense random skirting the edge of the map kills don't seem to matter as much. And by not being on a perch you may avoid attack drop ships, suicide drop ships with an HMG inside, counter snipers, orbitals, and the like.. but you become susceptible to cloaked shot gun scouts, and LAV with a HMG inside hit and runs. Not my idea of fun either.
Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
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Lloyd Orfay
SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE
184
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Posted - 2014.11.08 09:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Symbioticforks wrote:a number of things upset me.. - New dot for sniper rifle is too tiny (you lose sight of it on white backgrounds) hurts target acquisition on moving targets, too small to tell you're on target by direct line of sight color change. I would like to propose changing it back to the original dot. -Charge sniper rifle noise is ultra annoying, headache inducing, this never got "fixed" because nobody with influence ever cared or sniped for that matter. -Sniper rifle range on some of the larger maps created scenarios where I could see enemies that I could not shoot. i.e. 6 tower map.. from the tower top closest my MCC to the middle tower top across the center of the map overlooking the domination objective, was out of range of each other. 350m+ away. Stupid. -Headshot damage is way too high on sniper rifles, eliminating the whole "gun game" / "gun play" between sniper on sniper. If someone decides to counter snipe you after you kill them on the ground, they can come back from any direction and line up a headshot. In the past it took more than 1 bullet to kill a sniper, allowing for the one being shot to have a small window to move, possibly make it to cover and return fire. The better sniper would win out usually. THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. My proposed changes wouldn't have created this zero skill scenario. (Good job IWS) See this link!-The removal of the old Charge Sniper Rifle from the game. High damage body shots with enough bullets in the clip to allow you to miss a shot without having the huge penalty of reloading and reacquiring your target + stabilization time. You added the "executioner" and the "wanna be quickscoping tactical" but at the cost of removing the most solid sniper rifle from the game. !@#% me. Nobody asked for those two additional sniper rifle types at the cost of removing the Charge. I know you do what you want, I also know you listen from time to time. My proposed changes weren't complicated, and certainly not drastic. The game state for a sniper I feel is as awful as it has ever been. Since I know you like solutions, I suggest going back to Charlie sniper rifles / ranges / damage and increase the base damage and headshot damage each slightly. Instead of creating new gun types that aren't even good enough for PC matches. The 5 round clip Charge was at best a bad Thale's. Now there is seriously nothing close. You went all in on making the sniper rifle a "precision / lucky bullet weapon" and it's horrible (in my humble opinion). I wish things were different, and above all I wish I found this game more appealing. I cannot recreate the fluidity and finesse of my Dust 514 sniping videos in the current game state. ( someone at CCP please watch one) I'm hating sniping, and therefore Dust 514.
As long as it messes up sniper gameplay it's a good thing.
Snipers have screwed this game for long enough, and same for scouts.
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Symbioticforks
Pure Evil. Capital Punishment.
857
|
Posted - 2014.11.08 09:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ahh the generic "I hate all snipers forever and ever" bit..
I can't help but bask in your glorious hatred.
Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
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Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property
895
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Posted - 2014.11.08 09:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Symbioticforks wrote:What's changed for you to make it better?
I personally prefer precision point defense, and overwatch to hit and run sniper game play. In point defense random skirting the edge of the map kills don't seem to matter as much. And by not being on a perch you may avoid attack drop ships, suicide drop ships with an HMG inside, counter snipers, orbitals, and the like.. but you become susceptible to cloaked shot gun scouts, and LAV with a HMG inside hit and runs. Not my idea of fun either. Its better for more of an Assassination style of gameplay. Targeting problematic individuals. Getting rid of rooftopers and other snipers in particular.
I like the headshots.
Swag-suit4lyfe!
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Symbioticforks
Pure Evil. Capital Punishment.
857
|
Posted - 2014.11.08 09:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
It's surely easier to kill stationary targets..
and
Unless they're trying to kill infantry, a forge gunner never ever has to stand still
I feel that snipers suffer the most from what should have been a buff.
it's a "Silver Bullet" to snipers
and a
"Lucky Bullet" to anyone else.
Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
2366
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Posted - 2014.11.08 09:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
Symbioticforks wrote:Not sure what you mean? or how you got that from what I said.
Snipers can't generally just drop right back into the action like most infantry can. It takes time to call in a drop ship, fly to one of several decent sniping locations, recall said dropship and figure out where to focus.
Gun Game / Cover used to mean something to a sniper. No longer is this the case, you might as well be somewhere super obvious, because the moment someone decides to counter snipe you, there's nothing you can do about it.
And right there is the problem with most snipers. They want to sit way way back way way up high.
Learn to move, learn map positions, find choke points and alleyways where infantry are coming at you or away from you. So many dust snipers are lol worthy and spineless. Instead of usign a heavy suit or a commando suit, try using that sniper on a scout suit and be mobile.
I sympathise that you guys lost range but you (as a general and as a whole) ruined that for yourselves by stashing way back in the redline. Times have changed, learn to adapt as the sniper rifles are powerful beasts.
Now if you have issues with the reticles, well that is a matter of opinion and I support your wish to have what feels most comfortable.
"Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones"
"Guns for show, Knives for a pro"
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
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Protocake JR
USA Caucasians
1559
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Posted - 2014.11.08 09:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Here is what makes sense to me: If you decide to find a nice perch, you gain a line of sight advantage, a big one. The downside is, you become predicable. Draw enough attention to yourself and you'll have people wanting to take you out. Headshots make your predictability matter. Oherwise you just move backwards 5 meters, wait for health & ammo to replenish and continue the cycle until all the starter fits are dead. Sniping shouldn't be as safe as it was.
There must be meaningful engagements between rooftoppers and the people below. |
Symbioticforks
Pure Evil. Capital Punishment.
857
|
Posted - 2014.11.08 09:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
I'm a scout ambush sniper from open beta.
Let's not go where you just went with this.
I'll happily acknowledge that there can be many ways to use the sniper rifle. I know for a fact though that some ways are better and more effective than others. The most useful a sniper can be in PC is rooftop clearing / point defense.
I will almost always think less of any other sniper play style in competitive terms. In public matches however run whatever you have the most fun with, but I never found scout sniping comparable to perch sniping.
Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
4672
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Posted - 2014.11.08 09:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Symbioticforks wrote:It takes time to call in a drop ship, fly to one of several decent sniping locations, recall said dropship and figure out where to focus.
If you were a forge gunner like me and used this as an argument with the expectation that it be considered valid I would lambast you without restraint or mercy.
Imagine the above with just a terminology change to accommodate the fact that you're not to color it.
I have no respect for this playstyle and rooftop camping obviates the nees for "Gun Game" by taking you out of retaliation reach.
Get out.
Take the FGers who think this is the best way to play wih you.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Symbioticforks
Pure Evil. Capital Punishment.
858
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Posted - 2014.11.08 10:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:Here is what makes sense to me: If you decide to find a nice perch, you gain a line of sight advantage, a big one. The downside is, you become predicable. Draw enough attention to yourself and you'll have people wanting to take you out. Headshots make your predictability matter. Oherwise you just move backwards 5 meters, wait for health & ammo to replenish and continue the cycle until all the starter fits are dead. Sniping shouldn't be as safe as it was.
There must be meaningful engagements between rooftoppers and the people below.
Constantly being harassed by attack drop ships.. (with new and improved isk costs) + (increased skill point weekly caps to get there faster) was a huge downside to perch sniping. It wasn't safe if they wanted you dead, not even close. I have videos of being harassed through an entire matches by drop drops, simply because I refused to snipe from the red line, but didn't want to settle for sniping insignificant enemy players from the ground on the outskirts.
The Tactical Sniper Rifle was the gun that could dispatch a rooftop sniper with ease. Followed by a Forge Gun / Thale's.
Now all sniper rifles fill this role. It's something I don't think was anticipated or intended so I find it hard to give credit to anyone arguing in favor of the over the top head shot damage buff to snipers.
Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
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Protocake JR
USA Caucasians
1559
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Posted - 2014.11.08 10:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
The fact that, in competitive matches, perch sniping was the only viable means of sniping is probably an indicator that sniper mechanics are broken/imbalanced. So it doesn't matter what you used to do, are doing and what you're going to do because bad mechanics are bad mechanics.
Just because you enjoyed it doesn't make it right. It's a one-way street of engagement that required dropships or an OB to effectively counter. |
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Symbioticforks
Pure Evil. Capital Punishment.
858
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Posted - 2014.11.08 10:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
Breakin Stuff..
Sniper vs Sniper (gun game) is a thing. Welcome to Dust 514 for the past several years.
You want instant gratification? Dust 514 may not be the game for you!
(when someone is really far away from you and not moving, but you wish to interact with said player.. guess what you have to do?)
Snipers have been nerfed time after time since launch. Can you not acknowledge this?
The role has now been reduced and simplified into something less than it was before.
600m range was about the only thing that separated a sniper rifle from a forge gun.
Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
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Symbioticforks
Pure Evil. Capital Punishment.
858
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Posted - 2014.11.08 10:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:The fact that, in competitive matches, perch sniping was the only viable means of sniping is probably an indicator that sniper mechanics are broken/imbalanced. So it doesn't matter what you used to do, are doing and what you're going to do because bad mechanics are bad mechanics.
Just because you enjoyed it doesn't make it right. It's a one-way street of engagement that required dropships or an OB to effectively counter.
*or another enemy sniper*
You do realize the sniper made it to the perch without being shot down first.. (but was probably seen / called out)
If it takes me a drop ship to get somewhere, how is it not fair that it requires you a drop ship to come and get me? (because once there I can hit you, but you can't hit me? maybe you should prioritize counter sniper tactics a little more than the typical zero most people choose to employ. If a scout with a shotgun, or a heavy with an HMG can't hit it from the ground, surely it's overpowered and broken)
Attack drop ships with scanners are plentiful in PC matches, at least 2 sometimes even 3 are fielded at any given time by just one team. I don't think I've ever been so good at this game that I can avoid losing a Thale's should the enemy team want to cost me one.
Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
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Symbioticforks
Pure Evil. Capital Punishment.
858
|
Posted - 2014.11.08 10:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:The fact that, in competitive matches, perch sniping was the only viable means of sniping is probably an indicator that sniper mechanics are broken/imbalanced. So it doesn't matter what you used to do, are doing and what you're going to do because bad mechanics are bad mechanics.
Just because you enjoyed it doesn't make it right. It's a one-way street of engagement that required dropships or an OB to effectively counter.
Sniping is about having a clear view of your surroundings, why would a ground sniper ever do any better than someone who can acquire more targets up high? They simply shouldn't be able to match the kill counts because they cover less ground at any given time.
It's an ineffective way to use the gun, albeit fun.
It shouldn't be considered as some viable alternative though.
Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
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Midas Fool
Prophets of the Velocirapture
525
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Posted - 2014.11.08 10:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
I was going to write an extremely condescending and rude rebuttal to your post, but having watched your videos I changed my mind. You clearly are not in need of the usual "get good". The only complaint I feel is unwarranted in some way is being counter-sniped. I don't think snipers get to complain about being their own hard counter.
I personally think sniping is in the best place it has ever been. Sufficiently lethal, but still requiring some semblance of skill and participation. To be fair, I don't think sniping will (or should) ever have a strong place in PC. It is far too specialized.
The new Tactical is my dream weapon. I happen to love quickscoping. I don't understand the stigma against it.
I personally think the Charge has always been the worst variant. Ishukone has always been the best for the job.
[Ironically generic forum signature here]
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shaman oga
The Dunwich Horror
3069
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Posted - 2014.11.08 10:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
I agree on the fact you can lose sight of the dot, stopped reading after a few rows, see things over range is very useful, headshot is headshot we can finally kill heavies without a proto sniper rifle and calmando.
4 November 2014 - the most funny day in Dust514
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Symbioticforks
Pure Evil. Capital Punishment.
858
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Posted - 2014.11.08 10:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
I can finally snipe without spending skill points is what I heard there. Haha.
Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
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Protocake JR
USA Caucasians
1560
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Posted - 2014.11.08 10:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
There is more to this game than PC. So far it's been a failure. Because of this you cannot balance the game soley off of PC. I wish we could, but the truth is, most people play pubs. Too many random variables and no guarantees that a counter will be available for perch sniping.
Prior to the headshot update, sniping a tanked perch sniper was annoying. It wasn't fun. Engagements to waaaay too long if the perch sniper retreated as soon as he got hit. Also, Thales are the embodiment of broken sniper mechanics.
The point i'm trying to make is that sniper mechanics are/were broken. What we have now isn't perfect, but it's an improvement from past mechanics. Otherwise, the people wouldn't have spoken up about how crappy snipers are. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
4678
|
Posted - 2014.11.08 10:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
600m made snipers immune to everything but a Thales. The ONLY weapon with the range to hit it, obtainable only by random chance in planetary conquest. This is unbalanced.
End.
Stop.
Let me spell this out in the simplest terms:
When a single class makes the game unfun for most players to the point where it is obvious that you cannot counter it through any means other than playing that class then that class needs to be changed hard.
See: scout see: HMG Sentinel.
I play HMG Sentinel and even I admit the class has gotten out of hand to the detriment of the game at large and punishes most players for not speccing in.
Snipers are now at a point where they are powerful and counterable.
If you cannot accept the loss of comparative immunity find another game.
"Finger of God" was never intended to be a playable class.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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I-Shayz-I
I----------I
4979
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Posted - 2014.11.08 10:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
I hate the fact that you can jump around, spin in circles, and strafe back and forth super fast...all while maintaining perfect accuracy and zero recoil when ADS using a combat rifle or assault rifle.
Yet you can be crouched with a sniper and when you ADS your gun sways all over the place.
And don't anyone give me that bullshit "but the gun is long and heavy" response. Have you seen the size of the scrambler rifle? Pretty sure that doesn't have any sway either.
This is why sniping in this game is not worth it for me.
Why is there not a suit in the game that gives a reduction to kick and sway of rail weaponry? Why the heck is the Caldari Assault bonus a faster reload speed?
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
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Midas Fool
Prophets of the Velocirapture
526
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Posted - 2014.11.08 10:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Why is there not a suit in the game that gives a reduction to kick and sway of rail weaponry? Why the heck is the Caldari Assault bonus a faster reload speed?
I really like the CalAssault reload. I wouldn't mind a reduction to sway instead though, since it doesn't step on the Calmando's toes as much.
[Ironically generic forum signature here]
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