DUST Search - Shared active scanners are killing the game..

137H4RGIC wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

I hear you, but how do you propose we improve the situation.

ONe way would be to shorten the blip timer massively, just so you see them instantly, and no more

Hear the other side of the argument, please.

Gallente Logi's bonus applies to Active Scanners.
-> Active Scanners were the only equipment that only gave WP rewards from squad usage.
--> Passive Scans were arguably better and -all- scouts were made to be able to avoid Gal Logi scans.
----> Thereby, Gal Logi had no role.

Team scanners allow the Gallente Logi to have a role, it was just done in the wrong way. The way it -SHOULD- be done is that Team Scanners should have been a separate variant with a worse precision than their Squad-based counterparts. That way there is incentive for the Gallente Logi to perform scans for his team (or his squad) on a case-by-case basis and have his bonus apply more broadly to reap the rewards like the other Logis do for their team(s).

EDIT:

Could do this by making three tiers of Team Scanners (Standard/Advanced/Prototype) with the following stats:

Normal Precision: 60 / 55 / 50
Gal Logi 5 Precision: 51 / 46.75 / 42.5

This way, even using a team scanner your typical player would only ever be able to scan down Sentinels/Commandos (Assaults/Logis with a proto scanner); but a Gal Logi could scan down Assaults and Logis who have Prof Dampening 5 at the Proto level.

Then your Gallente Logis have a new role as 'Team Support' with the Team based Active Scanners and the Squad-based active scanners are still powerful enough to hold their own weight and can be balanced accordingly.

*notices the poster leavs out scouts* Uh huh, this guy's a scout. This is just more QQ about how scouts are getting probed down.

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Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2104	Posted - 2014.11.05 07:10:00 - [31] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I hear you, but how do you propose we improve the situation. ONe way would be to shorten the blip timer massively, just so you see them instantly, and no more Make active scanners build up heat. You scan targets as long as you hold down R1, but as soon as you release the trigger or overheat, they stop being scanned. Puts the active in active scanner. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2311	Posted - 2014.11.05 07:25:00 - [32] - Quote I hate to be blunt about this but I think this is a good thing. As a scout if you want to be sneaky, dampen up! No more brick tanking for you scrubs! I'm no going to say this solution is perfect but so far I find the changes have been enjoyable. My only concern would be that we help medium suits out a little with their scan profile. Maybe bring it down a little bit. But on the whole, I disagree with the OP I think things are ok right now. (That being said it is still very early days so who knows I might change my mind over time.....so far though so good). Or you know, we could remove EWAR and scanning all together and then we can go back to using our eyes, ears and knowledge of maps....... I am actually all for that even as a scout but I doubt people can stomach that sort of change. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Jebus McKing lol Proto 863	Posted - 2014.11.05 07:54:00 - [33] - Quote You could always make dampeners more useful for mediums, you know... like I suggested a few days ago... DUST514 is love // @JebusMcKing
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6961	Posted - 2014.11.05 08:27:00 - [34] - Quote 137H4RGIC wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I hear you, but how do you propose we improve the situation. ONe way would be to shorten the blip timer massively, just so you see them instantly, and no more Hear the other side of the argument, please. Gallente Logi's bonus applies to Active Scanners. -> Active Scanners were the only equipment that only gave WP rewards from squad usage. --> Passive Scans were arguably better and -all- scouts were made to be able to avoid Gal Logi scans. ----> Thereby, Gal Logi had no role. Team scanners allow the Gallente Logi to have a role, it was just done in the wrong way. The way it -SHOULD- be done is that Team Scanners should have been a separate variant with a worse precision than their Squad-based counterparts. That way there is incentive for the Gallente Logi to perform scans for his team (or his squad) on a case-by-case basis and have his bonus apply more broadly to reap the rewards like the other Logis do for their team(s). EDIT: Could do this by making three tiers of Team Scanners (Standard/Advanced/Prototype) with the following stats: Normal Precision: 60 / 55 / 50 Gal Logi 5 Precision: 51 / 46.75 / 42.5 This way, even using a team scanner your typical player would only ever be able to scan down Sentinels/Commandos (Assaults/Logis with a proto scanner); but a Gal Logi could scan down Assaults and Logis who have Prof Dampening 5 at the Proto level. Then your Gallente Logis have a new role as 'Team Support' with the Team based Active Scanners and the Squad-based active scanners are still powerful enough to hold their own weight and can be balanced accordingly. notices the poster leavs out scouts Uh huh, this guy's a scout. This is just more QQ about how scouts are getting probed down. You clearly don't know a thing about me then. Scouts don't matter because every single one of them has the capability to get under a Gal Logi with a Focused Scanner, so there's no point in including them in any metrics at all. They already won that battle. Legion Transparency Me and My Girl
shaman oga The Dunwich Horror 3006	Posted - 2014.11.05 08:33:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I hear you, but how do you propose we improve the situation. ONe way would be to shorten the blip timer massively, just so you see them instantly, and no more First of all i would divide scanners in 2 categories, squad and team. Team do only a snapshot, but recharge faster (it's a good compromise).
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 509	Posted - 2014.11.05 08:41:00 - [36] - Quote lol look at all the wannabe guys in here pretend to know how it was before beeing a gal. logi. Previously gal. logi where shafted cause their scans where beeing valued by nobody. Cause i couldnt tell randoms in pubs that there are 10 guys heading their way, i couldnt assist the team, i couldnt stop scouts killing my blueberrys. Things have changed for the better. No more sitting in a corner and shoting some 1 in the back. Now we have pure frontline fights which means the matches end quicker. What we got helps vets and newbies equally and gives you a incentive to actually use dampeners rather then just go "full tank" on scouts. Things are balanced and the only people on here who want it to be changed are just cannonfodder. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Stryker Syx Vector D3ATH CARD RUST415 15	Posted - 2014.11.05 08:57:00 - [37] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: lol look at all the wannabe guys in here pretend to know how it was before beeing a gal. logi. Previously gal. logi where shafted cause their scans where beeing valued by nobody. Cause i couldnt tell randoms in pubs that there are 10 guys heading their way, i couldnt assist the team, i couldnt stop scouts killing my blueberrys. Things have changed for the better. No more sitting in a corner and shoting some 1 in the back. Now we have pure frontline fights which means the matches end quicker. What we got helps vets and newbies equally and gives you a incentive to actually use dampeners rather then just go "full tank" on scouts. Things are balanced and the only people on here who want it to be changed are just cannonfodder. The grammar. It burns.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1478	Posted - 2014.11.05 08:58:00 - [38] - Quote shaman oga wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I hear you, but how do you propose we improve the situation. ONe way would be to shorten the blip timer massively, just so you see them instantly, and no more First of all i would divide scanners in 2 categories, squad and team. Team do only a snapshot, but recharge faster (it's a good compromise). Squad and Team scanners: Too simple, too boring. Snapshotting is a possibility. Alena Ventrallis wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I hear you, but how do you propose we improve the situation. ONe way would be to shorten the blip timer massively, just so you see them instantly, and no more Make active scanners build up heat. You scan targets as long as you hold down R1, but as soon as you release the trigger or overheat, they stop being scanned. Puts the active in active scanner. And this by Alena is good. Even though it further emphasizes the value of passives for gun-in-hand slayers, it's good. It could also be combined with the ISM suggestion here. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Orber Gen Academy Inferno E-R-A 222	Posted - 2014.11.05 09:29:00 - [39] - Quote Team scan hurts only solo players. I'm logibro, me and my team always read "U have been scaned" and what? Come and get me - they come, the die, that is how teamplay works - no matter what u need to be a team, and all else fails There is one problem - scouts, but it solves by my eyes
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 164	Posted - 2014.11.05 11:48:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I hear you, but how do you propose we improve the situation. ONe way would be to shorten the blip timer massively, just so you see them instantly, and no more Many ideas have been brought here, I like the one of doing snapshots for the team, and normal for the squad. Adding an error probability depending on the buildings you're scanning into, the mood of the map, etc. could be a nice thing to make people learn how and when to use a scanner. Knowing in which direction the scanned person is looking at should be taken away for both active and passive scans. Personally, I'm all for removing EWAR and scanners as I dont think it can belong in the FPS world. It goes against any sense of strategy and surprise. But I know most people couldn't handle such a change... Even though I have all EWAR skills maxed, they are useless on an assault suit. I tried with a dampener, and it didnt change anything. I thing Jebus Mcking's ideas are great about this, and they should become a thing in Dust. I'm not a FOTM (year now) player so NO, I don't want to use a scout to do my job. Assault suits have been created in this purpose. They either need love in their Ewar side, or, as I said before, see the whole scan thing taken away.. Assaulting people since way too long..

Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 411	Posted - 2014.11.05 14:00:00 - [41] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I hear you, but how do you propose we improve the situation. ONe way would be to shorten the blip timer massively, just so you see them instantly, and no more Hear the other side of the argument, please. Gallente Logi's bonus applies to Active Scanners. -> Active Scanners were the only equipment that only gave WP rewards from squad usage. --> Passive Scans were arguably better and -all- scouts were made to be able to avoid Gal Logi scans. ----> Thereby, Gal Logi had no role. Team scanners allow the Gallente Logi to have a role, it was just done in the wrong way. The way it -SHOULD- be done is that Team Scanners should have been a separate variant with a worse precision than their Squad-based counterparts. That way there is incentive for the Gallente Logi to perform scans for his team (or his squad) on a case-by-case basis and have his bonus apply more broadly to reap the rewards like the other Logis do for their team(s). EDIT: Could do this by making three tiers of Team Scanners (Standard/Advanced/Prototype) with the following stats: Normal Precision: 60 / 55 / 50 Gal Logi 5 Precision: 51 / 46.75 / 42.5 This way, even using a team scanner your typical player would only ever be able to scan down Sentinels/Commandos (Assaults/Logis with a proto scanner); but a Gal Logi could scan down Assaults and Logis who have Prof Dampening 5 at the Proto level. Then your Gallente Logis have a new role as 'Team Support' with the Team based Active Scanners and the Squad-based active scanners are still powerful enough to hold their own weight and can be balanced accordingly. I think reducing the duration for Team scanners would be better than reducing its precision. Take a bow
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 204	Posted - 2014.11.05 14:04:00 - [42] - Quote I think team scanning doesn't really make sense. If the logi doesn't even get a bonus wp from it, why share with the team? It just makes active scanners win all end all of pubs again NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 204	Posted - 2014.11.05 14:05:00 - [43] - Quote I reckon maybe just reduce cost and add a skill for +active scanner cooldown reduction and remove team scans. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4820	Posted - 2014.11.05 14:39:00 - [44] - Quote - Passive Scans should not be shared. - Any hostile you put your crosshairs on should be broadcast on the Tach-Net until you lose visual contact with them. - Active Scans might need multiple versions: 1)Team Scanner, Hostles display for 2 seconds. (Shared with Team.) 2)Squad Scanner, Hostiles display for 10 seconds. (Shared with Squad only.) 3)Personal Scanner, Hostles display for 20 second. (Not shared.) Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 207	Posted - 2014.11.05 14:42:00 - [45] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: - Passive Scans should not be shared. - Any hostile you put your crosshairs on should be broadcast on the Tach-Net until you lose visual contact with them. - Active Scans might need multiple versions: 1)Team Scanner, Hostles display for 2 seconds. (Shared with Team.) 2)Squad Scanner, Hostiles display for 10 seconds. (Shared with Squad only.) 3)Personal Scanner, Hostles display for 20 second. (Not shared.) Agree with first two but for personal just use a proximity scanner NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1244	Posted - 2014.11.05 15:02:00 - [46] - Quote How about making the team version charged? Hold the fire button to charge the scan,the longer it's held the more area is scanned (up to current levels). Charge time 15-20-30 seconds. Revealed 5-10-15 This would slow them down and make teamscanners vulnerable. Variables can be changed,but should be increased to represent the new risk team scanners will face. Risk (vulnerable) Vs Reward (longer revealed) Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 5837	Posted - 2014.11.05 16:29:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I hear you, but how do you propose we improve the situation. ONe way would be to shorten the blip timer massively, just so you see them instantly, and no more Just stop active scanners from showing up for everyone on the team. Why did you re enable that anyways? Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 541	Posted - 2014.11.05 16:48:00 - [48] - Quote I fail to see why it shouldnt be visible for the entire team. Its not like my nanohives or needles only work on squad mates. If you guys wanna avoid scans use ONE complex damp, that way they will have to use a proto scanner unless its a gal logi.
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 167	Posted - 2014.11.05 17:48:00 - [49] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: I fail to see why it shouldnt be visible for the entire team. Its not like my nanohives or needles only work on squad mates. If you guys wanna avoid scans use ONE complex damp, that way they will have to use a proto scanner unless its a gal logi. I use 1 proto damp on my proto MinAssault. I can avoid std scanners and some vehicles one with this. Scouts without ewar mods and adv+ scanners still scan me all the time. It's a real pain to sacrifice 1 slot for dampeners on an assault suit. I found a good way for 1, 2 would never fit. However, Assault scan profile is too high to compensate it enough with damp. It needs to get lowered. Jebus McKing did a god thread about it and I hope it'll become a real thing. @DeadlyAztec: I agree with you but I dont think that CCP will do this.. Assaulting people since way too long..
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 541	Posted - 2014.11.05 18:04:00 - [50] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: I fail to see why it shouldnt be visible for the entire team. Its not like my nanohives or needles only work on squad mates. If you guys wanna avoid scans use ONE complex damp, that way they will have to use a proto scanner unless its a gal logi. I use 1 proto damp on my proto MinAssault. I can avoid std scanners and some vehicles one with this. Scouts without ewar mods and adv+ scanners still scan me all the time. It's a real pain to sacrifice 1 slot for dampeners on an assault suit. I found a good way for 1, 2 would never fit. However, Assault scan profile is too high to compensate it enough with damp. It needs to get lowered. Jebus McKing did a god thread about it and I hope it'll become a real thing. @DeadlyAztec: I agree with you but I dont think that CCP will do this.. If an active scanner is scanning you its because its on a gal logi. Otherwise only scouts can pick you up.

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 423	Posted - 2014.11.05 18:04:00 - [51] - Quote Scans are fine, get some damps and GG. If "You've been scanned" then respond accordingly! The maps are HUGE, theres plenty of room to find alternate routes. Removal of scans will just perpetuate the stranglehold on combat scouts have since mediums and heavies will continue to be seen by the lower profile suits but will have 0 way to see them before its too late. The scanning we have now, both active and passive, shared with team and shared with squad, are not Game Breaking they're Game Making . EWAR. GET SOME. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 322	Posted - 2014.11.05 18:09:00 - [52] - Quote Following on the (GREAT!) concept that every piece of gear should have an exclusive strength that makes it desirable + an acute limitation to reign in its strength (and keep it from dominating the game), GÇ£ScanningGÇ¥ can be re-sorted into the following ideas: A GÇ£squad-shareGÇ¥ version of each handheld scanner: results persist longer on your hud, can detect most dampened flanking opponents, but shares data with Squad only. A GÇ£team-shareGÇ¥ version of each handheld scanner: results are displayed on your hud much shorter than the above version, is too poor to detect anyone with descent dampening, but shares data with entire Team. The Vehicle-mounted scanners: natively can scan wider and at lower db than any handheld (thanks to the extra PG that only a vehicleGÇÖs powerplants can supply), shares data with entire Team, but like the team-share portable scanner does not persist on you hud very long (and has disturbingly long cooldownGÇöso must use very prudently). (I am not the author of this scanners idea---I thought these was the idea the devs had mentioned coming up with before, but maybe IGÇÖm mistaken...) As always, a Scout suit with the appropriate advanced dampening/cloaking, should be the only player who can successfully avoid detection by handheld scanners. But it would be NICE (challenging) if Vehicle-mounted scanners could detect the cloaked scout, and for the very brief time the vehicle activates its scanner, the Scout must now choose whether to stick around, or to avoid detection by fleeing and returning later. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 632	Posted - 2014.11.05 18:40:00 - [53] - Quote you could replace the instant area scan with one that spreads out from a very thin area and takes a few seconds to spread to the full amount, meaning a 'quick scan' would only show things directly infront of you, but if you hold the button for a 'charged scan' it slowly spreads the scan area, giving a warning of 'incoming scan' so you have a shot at moving out of the scan range. Another option would be lowering the chance of getting a scan based on how many walls are between you and the enemy... As that would (in theory) make the scanning more difficult. Or even a 3rd option, add errors. So sometimes a tank or LAV have driven by, or a small bird pooped in the distance, so you get dots on the map that aren't really enemies, just to throw you off. Very much in favour of the easiest fix, which is to only have them show up on the mini-map and not red dots all over the screen... Then at least the scan only counts if you're near them and not over the other side of the map.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2479	Posted - 2014.11.05 19:12:00 - [54] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Really? I thought passive scans did it far more efficiently. You know, those 24/7 permascans, which give opponents no warning, have on even while gunning down bogeys. Talk about wallhack. Look dude. You have been here on these forums for a long time. You have seen DUST go through the cycles for 2 years. We JUSTTTTT got away from this active scan spam that pretty much forces you to run one to be competitive ... Like JUUST. Now after some time has passed and the players who played actively then in majority have moved on and we are left with another newly cycled in playerbase.. CCP Shanghai does the exact same mistake. The Tacnet is glitched, It's broken and it has massive flaws as a mechanic or in any development sense. CCP Shanghai can't learn from past mistakes... They are doomed to continue to repeat the same bullshit. CCP was warned about scan and needles.. They went ahead and ****** themselves anyway. Now CCP will have to deal with the massive amount of man hours they have wasted over buffing and nerfing items that we have already been through and lessons should of been learned. But what ever... most of these people on these forums just apologise for CCP and make the excuses up for them.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 424	Posted - 2014.11.05 19:35:00 - [55] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Scans are fine, get some damps and GG. If "You've been scanned" then respond accordingly! The maps are HUGE, theres plenty of room to find alternate routes. Removal of scans will just perpetuate the stranglehold on combat scouts have since mediums and heavies will continue to be seen by the lower profile suits but will have 0 way to see them before its too late. The scanning we have now, both active and passive, shared with team and shared with squad, are not Game Breaking they're Game Making . EWAR. GET SOME. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5185	Posted - 2014.11.05 19:37:00 - [56] - Quote If they want to introduce scans to new players I believe automatically squading up solo players as they enter the warbarge is a much better solution. It introduces them to squad play and it's benefits. It may end up connecting some of these blueberries and flattening out their learning curve a bit. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 509	Posted - 2014.11.05 20:04:00 - [57] - Quote People seem to misunderstand the role of assaults. You have mobility, tank and firepower and you want to have the same hiding capabilitys like a scout? Are you mad? What purpose would scouts have if you could do everything with a assault? And if we are at it why are you guys so upset about this? I thought scouts where the plague of dust and represent 99% of the players and every 1 has at least 1 proto scout? Seems like scouts where in the minority after all cause all i see here complaining are either assaults or heavys. If you want to properly fight then bring aswell a scanning logi to the fight. You see the enemy and the enenmy sees you and it comes down to gunplay. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 143	Posted - 2014.11.05 20:21:00 - [58] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: [...] Very much in favour of the easiest fix, which is to only have them show up on the mini-map and not red dots all over the screen... Then at least the scan only counts if you're near them and not over the other side of the map. This somewhat removes from the benefits of having someone with scans on the ground while flying a dropship with a gunner. Not a big deal, but something to seriously consider before changes.
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 143	Posted - 2014.11.05 20:32:00 - [59] - Quote Broadly speaking, everyone, every single dropsuit, needs to be able to "play" the ewar game. - Heavies who fill all low slots with dampeners need a CHANCE at hiding from Minmatar or Caldari scouts who don't run precision amps. - Assaults need to at least WORRY about dampened heavies, and actually fear a dampened assault. - Assaults who fill all highs with precision amplifiers need a CHANCE at picking up Amarr or Minmatar scouts who don't run damps. - In a nutshell, there needs to be a SMALL overlap of the precision and signature number possibilities between heavies and assaults, and then again between assaults and scouts. This will allow people to fine tune exactly the setup they want to run by choosing the suit they want and fitting accordingly. Right now, scouts only fit ewar to deal with other scouts, not to make sure they can catch assaults. Secondly, Passive Scan Sharing is not a bad thing. Those who fit ewar will totally dominate if squads can't benefit from having a scout keep their tacnet reliable. As a scout, I would be able to decimate squads whose members can't share their Tacnet with each other. Why do people keep suggesting this??
Defy Gravity G.L.O.R.Y 529	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:18:00 - [60] - Quote BRING IN THE SCANNER FROM ALIEN ISOLATION!!! How can there be 50k people on CCP's servers when i'm the only person on earth?



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