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CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 66	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:01:00 - [1] - Quote I run a Gallente scout, and on my proto suites I run 1 complex dampener, and a proto cloak if I can. I have a question. What incentive do I have in 1.9 to run a good cloak field? I can already hide from everything but 1 active scanner and Amarr scouts that run 2 precision mods without the cloak. In 1.9 cloaking negates the benefit of my 2 precision and 1 range mod by bringing me down to a 6.5 meter scan radius while cloaked (44m uncloaked). Being cloaked already impairs your hearing, and makes you defenseless, and now it negates your module effectiveness. Being cloaked is now a fairly detrimental state of being for little benefit, and you'd only want to do it for short periods of time, so why go proto? A basic gets the job done most of the time for cover-to-cover sprints, so is the only reason to use a good cloak to cover distances of 200 meters over open ground? I am fine with cloak being nerfed, but 85% is a HUGE reduction in my opinion. Maybe 50-65% (Lets me still benefit from my investment into scanning range, which in turn let's me benefit from my investment in precision), or a strait reduction to 15m, or a tiered reduction, (85% basic, 75% enhanced, 65% proto) would work better. Enough to let me know if I am still being chased, or when it's safe to to decloak, or run away from the hack point. You could even still provide intel if you got uncomfortably close to your enemy (since they added a decloak delay). In 1.9, you are incentivized to not be cloaked as much possible. I, for one, would like there to be a reason to use higher grade cloak fields as all cloak fields will do in general in 1.9 is a be a tool for shotgun scouts to sprint up to you, or a tool to make a quick sprint between cover, and you don't need a good cloak field to do that. I want them to be used for stalking and scouting, because that's why I am a scout. It's the scout bonus, give me a reason to use it. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
jhon hartigan Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 344	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:07:00 - [2] - Quote No. CCP wants you to be "blind" while you use that thing, you'll have to use your own eyes like everyone else... Such a nerf!!!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4367	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:09:00 - [3] - Quote It means you have to plan your attacks and drop cloak more often to verify target positions more often. In short, if you intend to run with the assassination scout meta you must do more planning and utilize more caution than you currently do. Stupid scouts will now get butchered. Smart scouts will simply slow down the pace of murder with the same near-impunity that they enjoy now. If you cannot think and plan on the fly, then there is always playing assault. We can always use more expendable cannon fodder in the field. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4411	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:14:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: If you cannot think and plan on the fly, then there is always playing assault. We can always use more expendable cannon fodder in the field. Breakin Stuff wrote: If you cannot think and plan on the fly, then there is always playing a proto-HMG sentinel. We can always use more nigh indestructible semi-AFK murder-gorillas. Aaaand fixed. I will admit to being cannon fodder, but I'm a higher functioning cannon fodder at the minimum. My advice to you, playa...
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4367	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:19:00 - [5] - Quote Both statements are valid Ripley. Confirming I am a semi-AFK murder-gorilla. Except I use basic. Wasting protofits on the bads running pubs is stupid. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 609	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:30:00 - [6] - Quote Quote: "so is the only reason to use a good cloak to cover distances of 200 meters over open ground?" Yes, try using the scout as a scout. It's just makes too much sense. Boycott Black Thursday!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4367	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:33:00 - [7] - Quote Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote: Quote: so is the only reason to use a good cloak to cover distances of 200 meters over open ground? Yes, try using the scout as a scout. It's just makes too much sense. Didn't you realize that in real life "scout" actually means "guy who kills the enemy army silently by himself?" Clearly the rest of us need to git gud and roll scout. Disclaimer: GoingtorunapostnerfcalscoutblameCrosshegoadedme! EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 135	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:39:00 - [8] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: I run a Gallente scout, and on my proto suites I run 1 complex dampener, and a proto cloak if I can. I have a question. What incentive do I have in 1.9 to run a good cloak field? I can already hide from everything but 1 active scanner and Amarr scouts that run 2 precision mods without the cloak. In 1.9 cloaking negates the benefit of my 2 precision and 1 range mod by bringing me down to a 6.5 meter scan radius while cloaked (44m uncloaked). Being cloaked already impairs your hearing, and makes you defenseless, and now it negates your module effectiveness. Being cloaked is now a fairly detrimental state of being for little benefit, and you'd only want to do it for short periods of time, so why go proto? A basic gets the job done most of the time for cover-to-cover sprints, so is the only reason to use a good cloak to cover distances of 200 meters over open ground? I am fine with cloak being nerfed, but 85% is a HUGE reduction in my opinion. Maybe 50-65% (Lets me still benefit from my investment into scanning range, which in turn let's me benefit from my investment in precision), or a strait reduction to 15m, or a tiered reduction, (85% basic, 75% enhanced, 65% proto) would work better. Enough to let me know if I am still being chased, or when it's safe to to decloak, or run away from the hack point. You could even still provide intel if you got uncomfortably close to your enemy (since they added a decloak delay). In 1.9, you are incentivized to not be cloaked as much possible. I, for one, would like there to be a reason to use higher grade cloak fields as all cloak fields will do in general in 1.9 is a be a tool for shotgun scouts to sprint up to you, or a tool to make a quick sprint between cover, and you don't need a good cloak field to do that. I want them to be used for stalking and scouting, because that's why I am a scout. It's the scout bonus, give me a reason to use it. I wrote a play for the Dust Community. Everyone: "Scouts are running around invisible dumping on everyone, please nerf scouts or give us some sort of hard counter." Scouts: "USE YOUR EYES LOL ITS NOT HARD ROFLMAO DONT NERF SCOUTS WERE NOT OP." CCP: "We're going to nerf cloaks so you cant use passive scans nearly as well while cloaked." Scouts: "WTF WE CANT SEE EVERYONE ON SCANS CLOAK IS WORTHLESS." Everyone: "..." Everyone exits stage left, scouts cloak and exit in an unknown direction, only to come back a few seconds later to shotgun both everyone and CCP in the back, scoring one hit kills. Andddd scene. I guess now you get to use your eyes too you stupid asses.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1960	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:45:00 - [9] - Quote Wall hacks or virtual invisibility. Choose one.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 67	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:50:00 - [10] - Quote I can be a scout just fine. Have been since 1.1 when they were bad. I can lurk, and scan, and surprise JUST FINE without a cloak, and that is the point. I have no reason to use anything more than a basic one to give me brief seconds of invisibility. If I need to drop my cloak to scan, then I should just run a basic cloak. My question was why spend the SP skilling into proto cloaks? Why spend the isk on proto cloaks? Why bother with the fitting cost of proto cloaks? Currently there are incentives to being cloaked for a long duration. Proto cloaks add another tool to your arsenal because you can use them to sneak into heavily contested territory and provide intel to your squad like strike locations for orbitals. If you can't see, then there is no reason to put on a module that allows you to be deaf, defenseless and ewar blind for 40 seconds. I'm not gonna hack a point cloaked when I can't tell if someone spawned behind me or not. Cloak is fine, and your eyes are fine, but if you are better at scouting without cloak, and you are essentially an ewar blind, deafened, defenseless, and still fairly noticeable scout (because if you are hiding in your opponents blind spot then you don't need to be cloaked) while cloaked, then why bother with anything more than a basic cloak, or even use one at all? Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4369	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:53:00 - [11] - Quote Playing a sniper anywhere other than in the redline. Oh look, a reason to proto up the cloak. It took me less than a second to cook up. Shall we go down the list I can cook up between now and getting home from work? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1546	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:00:00 - [12] - Quote op: WAAAAAAAAAAAAA! they nerfed my crutch! [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 135	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:00:00 - [13] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Playing a sniper anywhere other than in the redline. Oh look, a reason to proto up the cloak. It took me less than a second to cook up. Shall we go down the list I can cook up between now and getting home from work? Oooh, Ooh, I can do this too, on a scout swarm launcher fit, cloak can help you evade infantry.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 67	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:02:00 - [14] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Playing a sniper anywhere other than in the redline. Oh look, a reason to proto up the cloak. It took me less than a second to cook up. Shall we go down the list I can cook up between now and getting home from work? Fair point, though I'd argue that a sniper scout benefits little from having ewar. (I still do precision for my snipers, but I also stack plates and a cardiac for covering ground, as using dampening and range mods aren't worth it.) I did ask the question of why, so please do. That's the point of this topic, discussion. If there is a problem like I see, then we flesh out a solution, if there isn't, then we have ideas on how to use modules that had their usefulness adjusted. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 70	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:08:00 - [15] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Playing a sniper anywhere other than in the redline. Oh look, a reason to proto up the cloak. It took me less than a second to cook up. Shall we go down the list I can cook up between now and getting home from work? Oooh, Ooh, I can do this too, on a scout swarm launcher fit, cloak can help you evade infantry. I do this with my PLC scouts, and it won't help you evade infantry if you can't see them. Maybe with swarms as they don't own infantry like the PLC. It's also hard to use your ears to track tanks and dropships while cloaked. They love to hide behind things, and hearing where they went is the easiest way to track them down. Maybe to check the overhead map? Seems excessive to my fitting costs though. I can see the use of a cloak maybe, but not really the benefit of a proto one. Could you explain more? Why not RE's or a nanohive instead? Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5371	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:16:00 - [16] - Quote This is what I have been saying!!! I don't think the players realize that this might not be as big of a nerf to slayer scouts (particularly if Active Scanning makes a significant comeback). This will largely hurt solo players, who won't have the benefits of shared squad scanning, and only team scanning, but will also hurt chaos makers and hackers who do not run in the packs. Active scanners will still allow well coordinated squads to run tanked, strafing scouts to "see" while cloaked, where as solo players who can only rely on team scans will be at a significant disadvantage. Also, scouts who spend a lot of time hacking, either solo or away from their squads, will be at a significant disadvantage, particularly when hacking CRUs under duress. What is more, MANY OF THE PROBLEMS THAT EXIST STILL WON'T BE FIXED!!!! And when you scout QQers start complaining that it is still a problem, you won't get any support from me because you had the chance to argue for appropriate fixes, and instead reveled in ham handed ones. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
Aramis Madrigal Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 306	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:16:00 - [17] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: I can be a scout just fine. Have been since 1.1 when they were bad. I can lurk, and scan, and surprise JUST FINE without a cloak, and that is the point. I have no reason to use anything more than a basic one to give me brief seconds of invisibility. If I need to drop my cloak to scan, then I should just run a basic cloak. My question was why spend the SP skilling into proto cloaks? Why spend the isk on proto cloaks? Why bother with the fitting cost of proto cloaks? Currently there are incentives to being cloaked for a long duration. Proto cloaks add another tool to your arsenal because you can use them to sneak into heavily contested territory and provide intel to your squad like strike locations for orbitals. If you can't see, then there is no reason to put on a module that allows you to be deaf, defenseless and ewar blind for 40 seconds. I'm not gonna hack a point cloaked when I can't tell if someone spawned behind me or not. Cloak is fine, and your eyes are fine, but if you are better at scouting without cloak, and you are essentially an ewar blind, deafened, defenseless, and still fairly noticeable scout (because if you are hiding in your opponents blind spot then you don't need to be cloaked) while cloaked, then why bother with anything more than a basic cloak, or even use one at all? I think there are two reason to use a proto cloak. The first is that it increases loiter time around an objective. If you're playing point defense/area denial, it allows you to stay in an over watch position for extended periods of time, while remaining invisible. In these types of situations, your eyes should be sufficient to detect incoming threats. Second, it is valuable if the cloak places you across certain dB thresholds or into the absolutely undetectable range. As a gal scout in PC, I often run two complex damps and a proto cloak. If I get scanned while uncloaked, but get a scan prevented message while cloaked, I know there is gal logi with a focused scanner . This is just one specific example, but with a couple combinations of dampening and cloak, you can parse your opponents passive and active scanning capabilities and tendencies in the first couple of minutes of a match and select your suits accordingly. If my opponent is too lazy to force me into using 2-3 complex damps, I'll use less and fit more tank and/or speed. All in all, I think the changes keep the cloak as a strong defensive tool, while removing a good deal of the offensive ability people have complained about. -Aramis
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5374	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:19:00 - [18] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Wall hacks or virtual invisibility. Choose one. If Active Scans are too prevalent, slayer scouts will get both, while those of us who like to infiltrate or play solo and use the cloak defensively will be at a massive disadvantage. Problem not solved. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5374	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:24:00 - [19] - Quote Aramis Madrigal wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: I can be a scout just fine. Have been since 1.1 when they were bad. I can lurk, and scan, and surprise JUST FINE without a cloak, and that is the point. I have no reason to use anything more than a basic one to give me brief seconds of invisibility. If I need to drop my cloak to scan, then I should just run a basic cloak. My question was why spend the SP skilling into proto cloaks? Why spend the isk on proto cloaks? Why bother with the fitting cost of proto cloaks? Currently there are incentives to being cloaked for a long duration. Proto cloaks add another tool to your arsenal because you can use them to sneak into heavily contested territory and provide intel to your squad like strike locations for orbitals. If you can't see, then there is no reason to put on a module that allows you to be deaf, defenseless and ewar blind for 40 seconds. I'm not gonna hack a point cloaked when I can't tell if someone spawned behind me or not. Cloak is fine, and your eyes are fine, but if you are better at scouting without cloak, and you are essentially an ewar blind, deafened, defenseless, and still fairly noticeable scout (because if you are hiding in your opponents blind spot then you don't need to be cloaked) while cloaked, then why bother with anything more than a basic cloak, or even use one at all? I think there are two reason to use a proto cloak. The first is that it increases loiter time around an objective. If you're playing point defense/area denial, it allows you to stay in an over watch position for extended periods of time, while remaining invisible. In these types of situations, your eyes should be sufficient to detect incoming threats. Second, it is valuable if the cloak places you across certain dB thresholds or into the absolutely undetectable range. As a gal scout in PC, I often run two complex damps and a proto cloak. If I get scanned while uncloaked, but get a scan prevented message while cloaked, I know there is gal logi with a focused scanner . This is just one specific example, but with a couple combinations of dampening and cloak, you can parse your opponents passive and active scanning capabilities and tendencies in the first couple of minutes of a match and select your suits accordingly. If my opponent is too lazy to force me into using 2-3 complex damps, I'll use less and fit more tank and/or speed. All in all, I think the changes keep the cloak as a strong defensive tool, while removing a good deal of the offensive ability people have complained about. -Aramis This is part of the problem to me. First, it doesn't matter how "blind" you are if someone is hacking an objective. You will know exactly where they are without eyes, ears, or tacnet. Campers around objectives will still be at a significant advantage. Second, Gal scouts, once again, become the defacto choice for scouting because of the nerf to other suits. You can now run Damps to avoid tacnet while still maintaining the ability to share passive scans and run some tank. There is much more variability and viability of that racial suit than any of the others. Minja? Forget about it. Good luck with those hacks... 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
Jathniel G I A N T 1212	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:27:00 - [20] - Quote Nerfing scan radius while cloaked won't really fix anything. They should have increased the time to recloak. 0.33 isn't going to fix anything. Radius nerf won't make a difference, if a brief decloak is all that's necessary to grab a scan, because a scout with even a single dampener will be well hidden from medium and heavy suit scans. This won't do a damn thing to Cal Scout scan radius. Recloak delay of 3-5 seconds should have been the price to pay. But we'll see what changes tomorrow. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.

CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 71	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:29:00 - [21] - Quote Aramis Madrigal wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: I can be a scout just fine. Have been since 1.1 when they were bad. I can lurk, and scan, and surprise JUST FINE without a cloak, and that is the point. I have no reason to use anything more than a basic one to give me brief seconds of invisibility. If I need to drop my cloak to scan, then I should just run a basic cloak. My question was why spend the SP skilling into proto cloaks? Why spend the isk on proto cloaks? Why bother with the fitting cost of proto cloaks? Currently there are incentives to being cloaked for a long duration. Proto cloaks add another tool to your arsenal because you can use them to sneak into heavily contested territory and provide intel to your squad like strike locations for orbitals. If you can't see, then there is no reason to put on a module that allows you to be deaf, defenseless and ewar blind for 40 seconds. I'm not gonna hack a point cloaked when I can't tell if someone spawned behind me or not. Cloak is fine, and your eyes are fine, but if you are better at scouting without cloak, and you are essentially an ewar blind, deafened, defenseless, and still fairly noticeable scout (because if you are hiding in your opponents blind spot then you don't need to be cloaked) while cloaked, then why bother with anything more than a basic cloak, or even use one at all? I think there are two reason to use a proto cloak. The first is that it increases loiter time around an objective. If you're playing point defense/area denial, it allows you to stay in an over watch position for extended periods of time, while remaining invisible. In these types of situations, your eyes should be sufficient to detect incoming threats. Second, it is valuable if the cloak places you across certain dB thresholds or into the absolutely undetectable range. As a gal scout in PC, I often run two complex damps and a proto cloak. If I get scanned while uncloaked, but get a scan prevented message while cloaked, I know there is gal logi with a focused scanner . This is just one specific example, but with a couple combinations of dampening and cloak, you can parse your opponents passive and active scanning capabilities and tendencies in the first couple of minutes of a match and select your suits accordingly. If my opponent is too lazy to force me into using 2-3 complex damps, I'll use less and fit more tank and/or speed. All in all, I think the changes keep the cloak as a strong defensive tool, while removing a good deal of the offensive ability people have complained about. -Aramis I personally disagree with the philosophy of needing to be cloaked from all people all of the time, and to me, it is not worth the trade off of a large amount of fitting just to shake off a focused scanner. And even then, then, it'd just a button I press for the temporary dampening, and then press it again because the scan was avoided. As an ewar focused scout, I have to say that cloak seems like more of a hindrance than a boon as it negates what the suit is built around. Were I a slayer scout, then it sounds much better as then have more HP, and didn't invest the high/low slots to have them negated. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 71	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:35:00 - [22] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Nerfing scan radius while cloaked won't really fix anything. They should have increased the time to recloak. 0.33 isn't going to fix anything. Radius nerf won't make a difference, if a brief decloak is all that's necessary to grab a scan, because a scout with even a single dampener will be well hidden from medium and heavy suit scans. This won't do a damn thing to Cal Scout scan radius. Recloak delay of 3-5 seconds should have been the price to pay. But we'll see what changes tomorrow. It brings the Cal scout from 45m to 6.75m, from 67 to 9.8m, and from 90m to 13.6m. That sounds like a huge change to me, but only if you stay cloaked. So even less reason to use a proto cloak. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Mike Ox Bigger Extremely Wicked 336	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:44:00 - [23] - Quote It should change gameplay a little. If anything they will have to slow down and stop on the occasion to uncloak see the enemy and then cloak back up.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1547	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:46:00 - [24] - Quote what you people are forgetting is theya re going to adjust the active scanners to be 2 catagories team or squad not both.. ill bet the team ones wont have very strong strength while the squad ones will [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 137	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:51:00 - [25] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Playing a sniper anywhere other than in the redline. Oh look, a reason to proto up the cloak. It took me less than a second to cook up. Shall we go down the list I can cook up between now and getting home from work? Oooh, Ooh, I can do this too, on a scout swarm launcher fit, cloak can help you evade infantry. I do this with my PLC scouts, and it won't help you evade infantry if you can't see them. Maybe with swarms as they don't own infantry like the PLC. It's also hard to use your ears to track tanks and dropships while cloaked. They love to hide behind things, and hearing where they went is the easiest way to track them down. Maybe to check the overhead map? Seems excessive to my fitting costs though. I can see the use of a cloak maybe, but not really the benefit of a proto one. Could you explain more? Why not RE's or a nanohive instead? You can fit a nanohive in your second slot (which is pretty much required in a swarm suit). Im not sure I'd use a proto one, but I'd definately love to have an enhanced. I generally dont use cloak anyway since I think its horrifically abused by alot of people and I dont want to be a part of it, and Ive deleted my swarm fit because swarms suck ass and Ive moved on to forge guns, which suck slightly less ass. Im not sure why you think cloaks wont help you evade infantry or will somehow prevent you from tracking vehicles... do you really need a dot on the scanner 24/7 or hear the vehicle to tell you where people and vehicles are? I still use cloaks on my sniper fit for the same reason though, evading infantry or re-positioning over open ground.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 71	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:58:00 - [26] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Playing a sniper anywhere other than in the redline. Oh look, a reason to proto up the cloak. It took me less than a second to cook up. Shall we go down the list I can cook up between now and getting home from work? Oooh, Ooh, I can do this too, on a scout swarm launcher fit, cloak can help you evade infantry. I do this with my PLC scouts, and it won't help you evade infantry if you can't see them. Maybe with swarms as they don't own infantry like the PLC. It's also hard to use your ears to track tanks and dropships while cloaked. They love to hide behind things, and hearing where they went is the easiest way to track them down. Maybe to check the overhead map? Seems excessive to my fitting costs though. I can see the use of a cloak maybe, but not really the benefit of a proto one. Could you explain more? Why not RE's or a nanohive instead? You can fit a nanohive in your second slot (which is pretty much required in a swarm suit). Im not sure I'd use a proto one, but I'd definately love to have an enhanced. I generally dont use cloak anyway since I think its horrifically abused by alot of people and I dont want to be a part of it, and Ive deleted my swarm fit because swarms suck ass and Ive moved on to forge guns, which suck slightly less ass. Im not sure why you think cloaks wont help you evade infantry or will somehow prevent you from tracking vehicles... do you really need a dot on the scanner 24/7 or hear the vehicle to tell you where people and vehicles are? I still use cloaks on my sniper fit for the same reason though, evading infantry or re-positioning over open ground. Not a dot on the radar. I use a headset, so I use sound to locate them. When I used to tank pre 1.7 that was the best way to find other vehicles. That and using the overhead map. When you cloak it muffles sounds, so it's hard to hear anything useful that isn't right on top of you. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Ahkhomi Cypher Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 364	Posted - 2014.11.03 16:59:00 - [27] - Quote Some ways around the range nerf. You can just Active Scan the Med/Heavy frames you pick up on passive then cloak up and go murder them. Or you can ask somebody in squad(sup Opus Logis) to Active Scan the Med/Heavy frames you pick up on passive then cloak up and go murder them. Or you can use the teamwide Active Scans that picked up the Med/Heavy frames you pick up on passive then cloak up and go murder them. For scouts Im already used to not seeing them on tacnet and used to picking them up visually. On proto cloak "worth" Gal scout - meh not really needed. That bonus and abundance of low slots make a proto cloak a luxury. Min scout - i have proto cloak fits just incase im going against Amarr scouts. Like 2 fits on the rare occasion a gal logi has me lit up. Having no health and being scanned sucks sooooo much. I dont have the other 2 scouts. Opus Arcana \| TBD Ringleader Hi
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4376	Posted - 2014.11.03 17:01:00 - [28] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Nerfing scan radius while cloaked won't really fix anything. They should have increased the time to recloak. 0.33 isn't going to fix anything. Radius nerf won't make a difference, if a brief decloak is all that's necessary to grab a scan, because a scout with even a single dampener will be well hidden from medium and heavy suit scans. This won't do a damn thing to Cal Scout scan radius. Recloak delay of 3-5 seconds should have been the price to pay. But we'll see what changes tomorrow. Excuse me sir, you cannot get a sentinel's precision low enough to see an undamped scout. You can barely get it below an undamped assault with level 5 sensor dampening skill. Barely. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 138	Posted - 2014.11.03 17:05:00 - [29] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Playing a sniper anywhere other than in the redline. Oh look, a reason to proto up the cloak. It took me less than a second to cook up. Shall we go down the list I can cook up between now and getting home from work? Oooh, Ooh, I can do this too, on a scout swarm launcher fit, cloak can help you evade infantry. I do this with my PLC scouts, and it won't help you evade infantry if you can't see them. Maybe with swarms as they don't own infantry like the PLC. It's also hard to use your ears to track tanks and dropships while cloaked. They love to hide behind things, and hearing where they went is the easiest way to track them down. Maybe to check the overhead map? Seems excessive to my fitting costs though. I can see the use of a cloak maybe, but not really the benefit of a proto one. Could you explain more? Why not RE's or a nanohive instead? You can fit a nanohive in your second slot (which is pretty much required in a swarm suit). Im not sure I'd use a proto one, but I'd definately love to have an enhanced. I generally dont use cloak anyway since I think its horrifically abused by alot of people and I dont want to be a part of it, and Ive deleted my swarm fit because swarms suck ass and Ive moved on to forge guns, which suck slightly less ass. Im not sure why you think cloaks wont help you evade infantry or will somehow prevent you from tracking vehicles... do you really need a dot on the scanner 24/7 or hear the vehicle to tell you where people and vehicles are? I still use cloaks on my sniper fit for the same reason though, evading infantry or re-positioning over open ground. Not a dot on the radar. I use a headset, so I use sound to locate them. When I used to tank pre 1.7 that was the best way to find other vehicles. That and using the overhead map. When you cloak it muffles sounds, so it's hard to hear anything useful that isn't right on top of you. Yes I know about the sound muffling, I just dont think its much of an issue. I find cloak to be very useful for swarm/sniper fit (and not in the "very useful at making it trivial to deliver 1 shot weapons at point blank range to people's asses" way that it is abused by most scouts using it), if it didnt help I'd fit uplinks or RE instead. The point of this nerf is to make it a little harder for these shotgun douchebags to aquire/stalk targets while maintaining optical invisibility. I dont think this will fix how OP the cloak/damp/shotgun combo is, but it will help, and that is a good thing. The difference between a game with some cloaked shotgun shitstain in it and a game without is the difference between not fun and fun.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 71	Posted - 2014.11.03 17:12:00 - [30] - Quote Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: Some ways around the range nerf. You can just Active Scan the Med/Heavy frames you pick up on passive then cloak up and go murder them. Or you can ask somebody in squad(sup Opus Logis) to Active Scan the Med/Heavy frames you pick up on passive then cloak up and go murder them. Or you can use the teamwide Active Scans that picked up the Med/Heavy frames you pick up on passive then cloak up and go murder them. For scouts Im already used to not seeing them on tacnet and used to picking them up visually. On proto cloak "worth" Gal scout - meh not really needed. That bonus and abundance of low slots make a proto cloak a luxury. Min scout - i have proto cloak fits just incase im going against Amarr scouts. Like 2 fits on the rare occasion a gal logi has me lit up. Having no health and being scanned sucks sooooo much. I dont have the other 2 scouts. My skills are for passive ewar. If I run a scanner, I probably don't need ewar mods, and should run HP mods instead, which is the opposite of what people seem to want scouts to do. And if a teammate is scanning, then I still don't need the passive ewar. Cloak seems to be better suited for slayer scouts come 1.9. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m

CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 71	Posted - 2014.11.03 17:22:00 - [31] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Yes I know about the sound muffling, I just dont think its much of an issue. I find cloak to be very useful for swarm/sniper fit (and not in the "very useful at making it trivial to deliver 1 shot weapons at point blank range to people's asses" way that it is abused by most scouts using it), if it didnt help I'd fit uplinks or RE instead. The point of this nerf is to make it a little harder for these shotgun douchebags to aquire/stalk targets while maintaining optical invisibility. I dont think this will fix how OP the cloak/damp/shotgun combo is, but it will help, and that is a good thing. The difference between a game with some cloaked shotgun shitstain in it and a game without is the difference between not fun and fun. The point I am trying to make is that my scout that runs nova knives and 4 ewar mods has no need for a cloak, and is more incentivized to run HP mods instead, even though my racial bonus is for ewar. Cloaks will still be abused by shotgunners and the like as they either charge from the from where cloaks are still useful, or approach from behind where they are unneeded. People who use cloak field for recon are the ones who will feel it, not the easy scouts that exploit the imbalance of the class. They will move to the next easy tactic, and the ones who enjoy the scout roll likely won't bother with the best quality cloaks (few do now as they aren't good enough). Perhaps I am viewing this wrong, but not capitalizing on the equipment I get a roll bonus too seems wrong, especially if the reason why is because it negates my racial roll bonus to do so.. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4377	Posted - 2014.11.03 17:34:00 - [32] - Quote Moving across open areas. While actually scouting, flagging targets with your cursor to mark targets you want your squad to focus on instead of randomly attacking every red dot you happen to share. Hiding from groups who move into your area. Hiding from that burst HMG sentinel who is LOOKING RIGHT AT YOU and isn't firing because you're holding still and he doesn't see you. Because sometimes you want to sneak past all eight of the red dots in front of you to kill the logi supporting the inevitable sentinel spammers. Uplink clearing. Someone's gotta do it. The vehicle scanner might spot you, but the gunner won't. Dropship can't accurately drop missiles on you while you stand in the open giving him the finger between PLC shots trying to bounce him off buildings. Because you can. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Ahkhomi Cypher Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 364	Posted - 2014.11.03 17:43:00 - [33] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: My skills are for passive ewar. If I run a scanner, I probably don't need ewar mods, and should run HP mods instead, which is the opposite of what people seem to want scouts to do. And if a teammate is scanning, then I still don't need the passive ewar. Cloak seems to be better suited for slayer scouts come 1.9. I was trying to say that scouts are still gonna be able to see alot on tacnet while being cloaked. This range nerf is gonna alter the way its done but its still gonna be possible. Cloaked scouts wont be completely tacnet blind is what im trying to say basically. Opus Arcana \| TBD Ringleader Hi
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2270	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:04:00 - [34] - Quote PAHHHHH!!!! Shakes fist in anger! Real scouts dont use the stooooopid clackkalaka "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2270	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:06:00 - [35] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Moving across open areas. While actually scouting, flagging targets with your cursor to mark targets you want your squad to focus on instead of randomly attacking every red dot you happen to share. Hiding from groups who move into your area. Hiding from that burst HMG sentinel who is LOOKING RIGHT AT YOU and isn't firing because you're holding still and he doesn't see you. Because sometimes you want to sneak past all eight of the red dots in front of you to kill the logi supporting the inevitable sentinel spammers. Uplink clearing. Someone's gotta do it. The vehicle scanner might spot you, but the gunner won't. Dropship can't accurately drop missiles on you while you stand in the open giving him the finger between PLC shots trying to bounce him off buildings. Decloaking only when you're ready to use your sniper rifle. Because you can. PLC? Half of these so called scouts are cloaked pretend-assaults with rifles (ewwww dirty word rifle) "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 71	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:07:00 - [36] - Quote Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: My skills are for passive ewar. If I run a scanner, I probably don't need ewar mods, and should run HP mods instead, which is the opposite of what people seem to want scouts to do. And if a teammate is scanning, then I still don't need the passive ewar. Cloak seems to be better suited for slayer scouts come 1.9. I was trying to say that scouts are still gonna be able to see alot on tacnet while being cloaked. This range nerf is gonna alter the way its done but its still gonna be possible. Cloaked scouts wont be completely tacnet blind is what im trying to say basically. Yeah, but then they are essentially assaults with slightly more speed, and notably less HP, unless they stack plates. Slayer scouts suffer little from this change, but ewar scouts suffer greatly as they have to change their strategy significantly. My understanding is that people don't care about scouts like mine with >400ehp and no speed mods. They care about cloaked shotgun/RE scouts that use those tactics because they are easy and effective, and slayer scouts with a rifle who can do just fine without ewar mods as their built in ewar/mobility/shield regen stats are still better than assaults, and you can still get 600-1000HP on them. People may be pissed off by the lurky assassins that provide intel, but that is kind of the scout's job, and they pay for it in HP. I'm not saying that the scout tax is not high enough, (scouts are too effective) just that this change taxes scouts that want to play to their bonuses more than it does ones that don't, and that just seems wrong to me. I like the 85% basic 75% enhanced, 65% proto I mentioned earlier. Then fitting a fitting heavy cloak field has more benefits, so people who want to be more effective can skill into them more and have it effect their fitting costs more, but their ewar stats less. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 71	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:19:00 - [37] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: PAHHHHH!!!! Shakes fist in anger! Real scouts dont use the stooooopid clackkalaka I keep hearing "real scouts (or logis from when slayer logis were popular) don't do X" What is a "real scout"? What for the matter is a "Real assault?" Or real "logi/commando/sentinel"? Ideally dust should allow for different fits to still be viable (though not necessarily optimal), and can make it work, you should be able to go for it. That's why you can make your own fits. If you us a commando with 2 off race weapons, then it should work (but it's not very optimal) If you use a sentinel with a light weapon, it should still work (also not optimal). If you want to help your team, but still fight on the front lines, then a logi can stack HP and damage mods, and heal/resupply people after the fight. It's a fitting, and our focus should be on fixing imbalances, not chastising people for not fitting their suits to yours standards. (For the record, I hate ALL of those fits I mentioned, and they annoy the greatly to fight them) Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 145	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:23:00 - [38] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Playing a sniper anywhere other than in the redline. Oh look, a reason to proto up the cloak. It took me less than a second to cook up. Shall we go down the list I can cook up between now and getting home from work? Fair point, though I'd argue that a sniper scout benefits little from having ewar. (I still do precision for my snipers, but I also stack plates and a cardiac for covering ground, as using dampening and range mods aren't worth it.) I did ask the question of why, so please do. That's the point of this topic, discussion. If there is a problem like I see, then we flesh out a solution, if there isn't, then we have ideas on how to use modules that had their usefulness adjusted. Snipers benefit quite a bit from EWAR, equipping one precision and one range will let you know when any heavy/medium/undamped scouts are coming up to you so you can leave or RE them or whatever. I usually run (on Cal Scout): x2 shield extenders, x1 precision enhancer, x1 damage mod, x1 dampener, x1 range enhancer, gives you some good scanning to avoid problems and give you a comfort zone while zoomed in, and allows you to evade most scans which might make you a target otherwise.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 71	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:28:00 - [39] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Moving across open areas. While actually scouting, flagging targets with your cursor to mark targets you want your squad to focus on instead of randomly attacking every red dot you happen to share. Hiding from groups who move into your area. Hiding from that burst HMG sentinel who is LOOKING RIGHT AT YOU and isn't firing because you're holding still and he doesn't see you. Because sometimes you want to sneak past all eight of the red dots in front of you to kill the logi supporting the inevitable sentinel spammers. Uplink clearing. Someone's gotta do it. The vehicle scanner might spot you, but the gunner won't. Dropship can't accurately drop missiles on you while you stand in the open giving him the finger between PLC shots trying to bounce him off buildings. Decloaking only when you're ready to use your sniper rifle. Because you can. And a proto cloak yields little advantage over a basic in most of those circumstances. they either rely on one or more people not seeing the shimmering in an extremely dangerous situations. Not saying people aren't blind, but any strategy that relies on you enemy to be unobservant/stupid it is risky, and one that relies on it for 40 seconds while you are blind and deaf probably needs reevaluation, or requires a mic which isn't fair to people without means, or who speak other languages. If you could tag a target, or put markers on locations without having to be squad leader, then it would be very different.(Looking at an enemy directly doesn't make them light up for your squad anymore, just you) Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4389	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:33:00 - [40] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Moving across open areas. While actually scouting, flagging targets with your cursor to mark targets you want your squad to focus on instead of randomly attacking every red dot you happen to share. Hiding from groups who move into your area. Hiding from that burst HMG sentinel who is LOOKING RIGHT AT YOU and isn't firing because you're holding still and he doesn't see you. Because sometimes you want to sneak past all eight of the red dots in front of you to kill the logi supporting the inevitable sentinel spammers. Uplink clearing. Someone's gotta do it. The vehicle scanner might spot you, but the gunner won't. Dropship can't accurately drop missiles on you while you stand in the open giving him the finger between PLC shots trying to bounce him off buildings. Decloaking only when you're ready to use your sniper rifle. Because you can. And a proto cloak yields little advantage over a basic in most of those circumstances. they either rely on one or more people not seeing the shimmering in an extremely dangerous situations. Not saying people aren't blind, but any strategy that relies on you enemy to be unobservant/stupid it is risky, and one that relies on it for 40 seconds while you are blind and deaf probably needs reevaluation, or requires a mic which isn't fair to people without means, or who speak other languages. If you could tag a target, or put markers on locations without having to be squad leader, then it would be very different.(Looking at an enemy directly doesn't make them light up for your squad anymore, just you) Any strategy that requires on the scout to be stupid/make an error is risky and STUPID. The changes make it so you don't have to be reliant on the scout to be a pants-on-head dumbass to find and kill him. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 71	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:35:00 - [41] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Playing a sniper anywhere other than in the redline. Oh look, a reason to proto up the cloak. It took me less than a second to cook up. Shall we go down the list I can cook up between now and getting home from work? Fair point, though I'd argue that a sniper scout benefits little from having ewar. (I still do precision for my snipers, but I also stack plates and a cardiac for covering ground, as using dampening and range mods aren't worth it.) I did ask the question of why, so please do. That's the point of this topic, discussion. If there is a problem like I see, then we flesh out a solution, if there isn't, then we have ideas on how to use modules that had their usefulness adjusted. Snipers benefit quite a bit from EWAR, equipping one precision and one range will let you know when any heavy/medium/undamped scouts are coming up to you so you can leave or RE them or whatever. I usually run (on Cal Scout): x2 shield extenders, x1 precision enhancer, x1 damage mod, x1 dampener, x1 range enhancer, gives you some good scanning to avoid problems and give you a comfort zone while zoomed in, and allows you to evade most scans which might make you a target otherwise. I tend to run 2 precision, but if cloak reduces my range to 5m, then I don't wanna use it for sniping, and should probably not run ewar if I do. That's the whole problem. Why use a cloak if doing so negates the 4 slots you invested in range/precision? If it is just in case, then you only need a basic (maybe sometimes advanced for very specific situations). It might be nice to have for the 1% of the time that the extra damping/duration might help, but you can free up a lot of fitting space buy just toning your cloak down. And I don't fit my suits for 1% situations. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 145	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:35:00 - [42] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Moving across open areas. While actually scouting, flagging targets with your cursor to mark targets you want your squad to focus on instead of randomly attacking every red dot you happen to share. Hiding from groups who move into your area. Hiding from that burst HMG sentinel who is LOOKING RIGHT AT YOU and isn't firing because you're holding still and he doesn't see you. Because sometimes you want to sneak past all eight of the red dots in front of you to kill the logi supporting the inevitable sentinel spammers. Uplink clearing. Someone's gotta do it. The vehicle scanner might spot you, but the gunner won't. Dropship can't accurately drop missiles on you while you stand in the open giving him the finger between PLC shots trying to bounce him off buildings. Decloaking only when you're ready to use your sniper rifle. Because you can. And a proto cloak yields little advantage over a basic in most of those circumstances. they either rely on one or more people not seeing the shimmering in an extremely dangerous situations. Not saying people aren't blind, but any strategy that relies on you enemy to be unobservant/stupid it is risky, and one that relies on it for 40 seconds while you are blind and deaf probably needs reevaluation, or requires a mic which isn't fair to people without means, or who speak other languages. If you could tag a target, or put markers on locations without having to be squad leader, then it would be very different.(Looking at an enemy directly doesn't make them light up for your squad anymore, just you) Its risky, but successful. The fact is using the cloak properly (not trying to walk directly in front of an unengaged enemy) is just astoundingly effective. Im not sure how anyone can doubt that cloak field definitely provides a big advantage with both pubs and PC matches being absolutely infested with them. And I'd say the enhanced cloak gives the best balance in terms of fitting cost vs. cloak time, the basic cloak is pretty short and you will notice the ticking clock alot more. Not sure I'd ever use proto cloak, but then again I havent tried it.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 145	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:40:00 - [43] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: I tend to run 2 precision, but if cloak reduces my range to 5m, then I don't wanna use it for sniping, and should probably not run ewar if I do. That's the whole problem. Why use a cloak if doing so negates the 4 slots you invested in range/precision? If it is just in case, then you only need a basic (maybe sometimes advanced for very specific situations). It might be nice to have for the 1% of the time that the extra damping/duration might help, but you can free up a lot of fitting space buy just toning your cloak down. And I don't fit my suits for 1% situations. The scanning EWAR mods arent for when you are repositioning or running away from a concrete threat, the scanning mods are for when you are sitting there, zoomed in, taking shots and your visibility/attention is taken away from your immediate surroundings. While you are sitting there sniping, you can see most of the threats that are entering your area and respond in some way besides having to respawn. There seems to be the unspoken assertion in your posts that scouts should be cloaked the vast majority of their play time, and that being cloaked should carry no drawback. Not sure why you or anyone else would think this, but maybe its an indication of how spoiled the cloak is making you.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 71	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:45:00 - [44] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Moving across open areas. While actually scouting, flagging targets with your cursor to mark targets you want your squad to focus on instead of randomly attacking every red dot you happen to share. Hiding from groups who move into your area. Hiding from that burst HMG sentinel who is LOOKING RIGHT AT YOU and isn't firing because you're holding still and he doesn't see you. Because sometimes you want to sneak past all eight of the red dots in front of you to kill the logi supporting the inevitable sentinel spammers. Uplink clearing. Someone's gotta do it. The vehicle scanner might spot you, but the gunner won't. Dropship can't accurately drop missiles on you while you stand in the open giving him the finger between PLC shots trying to bounce him off buildings. Decloaking only when you're ready to use your sniper rifle. Because you can. And a proto cloak yields little advantage over a basic in most of those circumstances. they either rely on one or more people not seeing the shimmering in an extremely dangerous situations. Not saying people aren't blind, but any strategy that relies on you enemy to be unobservant/stupid it is risky, and one that relies on it for 40 seconds while you are blind and deaf probably needs reevaluation, or requires a mic which isn't fair to people without means, or who speak other languages. If you could tag a target, or put markers on locations without having to be squad leader, then it would be very different.(Looking at an enemy directly doesn't make them light up for your squad anymore, just you) Its risky, but successful. The fact is using the cloak properly (not trying to walk directly in front of an unengaged enemy) is just astoundingly effective. Im not sure how anyone can doubt that cloak field definitely provides a big advantage with both pubs and PC matches being absolutely infested with them. And I'd say the enhanced cloak gives the best balance in terms of fitting cost vs. cloak time, the basic cloak is pretty short and you will notice the ticking clock alot more. Not sure I'd ever use proto cloak, but then again I havent tried it. Cloak works largely because while you are cloaked you can wait until the exact moment to strike, or you need to slip by someone for just a few seconds. When cloak changes tomorrow, then you either don't bother with a nice one, or you can use it on a suit with 800ehp because you didn't invest the high/low slots on something that you don't benefit from when you cloak. Is the thing I kept seeing topic after topic about have scouts are too good at slaying people not based in large HP totals and shotgun surprises? This changes nothing for them. But what the role is designed for (as that is what 3/4ths of scouts have a bonus to) is scanning, and using a piece of equipment that only scouts can use well, only to have it negate your bonus sounds like a terrible thing to invest more than minimally in. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 145	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:11:00 - [45] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Moving across open areas. While actually scouting, flagging targets with your cursor to mark targets you want your squad to focus on instead of randomly attacking every red dot you happen to share. Hiding from groups who move into your area. Hiding from that burst HMG sentinel who is LOOKING RIGHT AT YOU and isn't firing because you're holding still and he doesn't see you. Because sometimes you want to sneak past all eight of the red dots in front of you to kill the logi supporting the inevitable sentinel spammers. Uplink clearing. Someone's gotta do it. The vehicle scanner might spot you, but the gunner won't. Dropship can't accurately drop missiles on you while you stand in the open giving him the finger between PLC shots trying to bounce him off buildings. Decloaking only when you're ready to use your sniper rifle. Because you can. And a proto cloak yields little advantage over a basic in most of those circumstances. they either rely on one or more people not seeing the shimmering in an extremely dangerous situations. Not saying people aren't blind, but any strategy that relies on you enemy to be unobservant/stupid it is risky, and one that relies on it for 40 seconds while you are blind and deaf probably needs reevaluation, or requires a mic which isn't fair to people without means, or who speak other languages. If you could tag a target, or put markers on locations without having to be squad leader, then it would be very different.(Looking at an enemy directly doesn't make them light up for your squad anymore, just you) Its risky, but successful. The fact is using the cloak properly (not trying to walk directly in front of an unengaged enemy) is just astoundingly effective. Im not sure how anyone can doubt that cloak field definitely provides a big advantage with both pubs and PC matches being absolutely infested with them. And I'd say the enhanced cloak gives the best balance in terms of fitting cost vs. cloak time, the basic cloak is pretty short and you will notice the ticking clock alot more. Not sure I'd ever use proto cloak, but then again I havent tried it. Cloak works largely because while you are cloaked you can wait until the exact moment to strike, or you need to slip by someone for just a few seconds. When cloak changes tomorrow, then you either don't bother with a nice one, or you can use it on a suit with 800ehp because you didn't invest the high/low slots on something that you don't benefit from when you cloak. Is the thing I kept seeing topic after topic about have scouts are too good at slaying people not based in large HP totals and shotgun surprises? This changes nothing for them. But what the role is designed for (as that is what 3/4ths of scouts have a bonus to) is scanning, and using a piece of equipment that only scouts can use well, only to have it negate your bonus sounds like a terrible thing to invest more than minimally in. I dont care about brick tank scouts, I think they are worthless in the larger scheme of things, they are scrubs who can be scanned and killed by just about anyone. You will rarely if ever see a brick scout running around in PC, and there is a reason for that, they suck. My problem with scouts lies with the fact that dampeners + cloak has no counter in this game and allows scouts to run around invisible, unscannable, one shotting people. There isnt a counter for this style of play even after the nerf to the cloaking device, but the nerf does make the cloaks/damp combo less useful, because they will not be able to aquire/stalk targets as well while cloaked. My preferred solution would be to change the scanning/dampening dynamic so that high level dampening will still not allow you to get within ~15-20m (distance debatable) of high level scanning without being picked up on scans, so that scanning can act as a counter to damps/cloaks. The way to make this change is to make scanning a gradient from the scanner, so that the more precision you have, the farther away things can be scanned at, and dampening on the scannee will push the distance back in towards the scanner. This not only provides a hard counter against damps/cloaks/shotguns, it also has the happy effect of making your precision/dampening mods useful regardless of what the enemy is doing. No matter what suit you or your enemy is using, dampeners will give you more room to work with, and precision/range will provide you more scanning radius. But hey if they wont fix the E-war metagame, Ill take this cloak nerf, and anything else I can get.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 73	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:11:00 - [46] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: I tend to run 2 precision, but if cloak reduces my range to 5m, then I don't wanna use it for sniping, and should probably not run ewar if I do. That's the whole problem. Why use a cloak if doing so negates the 4 slots you invested in range/precision? If it is just in case, then you only need a basic (maybe sometimes advanced for very specific situations). It might be nice to have for the 1% of the time that the extra damping/duration might help, but you can free up a lot of fitting space buy just toning your cloak down. And I don't fit my suits for 1% situations. The scanning EWAR mods arent for when you are repositioning or running away from a concrete threat, the scanning mods are for when you are sitting there, zoomed in, taking shots and your visibility/attention is taken away from your immediate surroundings. While you are sitting there sniping, you can see most of the threats that are entering your area and respond in some way besides having to respawn. There seems to be the unspoken assertion in your posts that scouts should be cloaked the vast majority of their play time, and that being cloaked should carry no drawback. Not sure why you or anyone else would think this, but maybe its an indication of how spoiled the cloak is making you. My assertion is quite the opposite. My emphasis is that if your focus is ewar, then you shouldn't be cloaked ever, but when you my find a need, you only need to for <15 seconds when cloak has the huge drawback of ewar blindness. When ewar is up, I can hide in your blind spots. Lengthy cloak durations allow you to provide intel for risky recon far more effectively and easily. Assessing enemy numbers in a small building/corridor, giving scans to the squad leader of OB strikes, or scans for your main offensive so your main force can fight efficiently. You know, scouting. My point now is that if you can't do reconnaissance as effectively with it on as you do with it off, then there is no reason to use a better cloak, and more that it is the long cloak duration that allows you to do better recon. I can sit outside a small building and see red dots inside, but I can't see their suit rolls, or visually confirm scouts inside. I can give an okay strike location, but not one that is as guaranteed to kill all the enemies. I can sit behind my allies at the front and scan, but I can't see the whole of the enemy front and pick off stragglers from within their area. Active scanners do the scanning thing just fine for a squad (and soon to be entire team), but come with a warning that let's them know. A scout is supposed to see them without them knowing and provide intel, hence the ewar bonuses. The fun parts/useful parts of being a scout can be done from 100m away by any suit with a scanner, and the need for a scout to do actual recon will be much lower, and scouts can instead focus on being stealthy light assaults. That sounds like a boring game state to be a scout in, and it also sounds like an item in the game that has little reason for use over it's advanced counterpart, and that should not be the case for anything in the game. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4391	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:17:00 - [47] - Quote funny, once you get all the EWAR skills to 5, and cloak skill to 5 I can't think of a reason NOT to cloak and run nothing but EWAR mods. Nor can I think of a reason to run anything better than a C-1, G-1 or A-1. Cheap, effective and you can shotgun people in the back because unless they have a hand scanner, they will never find you unless they're a scout and if they do, I spent less on my fit than you spent on your gun, most likely. Oh, I forgot, being maxed out in cores pretty much lets me do that with sentinels too. And Assaults. And Logi... Screw it. I'm never running expensive fits again. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 145	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:18:00 - [48] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: I tend to run 2 precision, but if cloak reduces my range to 5m, then I don't wanna use it for sniping, and should probably not run ewar if I do. That's the whole problem. Why use a cloak if doing so negates the 4 slots you invested in range/precision? If it is just in case, then you only need a basic (maybe sometimes advanced for very specific situations). It might be nice to have for the 1% of the time that the extra damping/duration might help, but you can free up a lot of fitting space buy just toning your cloak down. And I don't fit my suits for 1% situations. The scanning EWAR mods arent for when you are repositioning or running away from a concrete threat, the scanning mods are for when you are sitting there, zoomed in, taking shots and your visibility/attention is taken away from your immediate surroundings. While you are sitting there sniping, you can see most of the threats that are entering your area and respond in some way besides having to respawn. There seems to be the unspoken assertion in your posts that scouts should be cloaked the vast majority of their play time, and that being cloaked should carry no drawback. Not sure why you or anyone else would think this, but maybe its an indication of how spoiled the cloak is making you. My assertion is quite the opposite. My emphasis is that if your focus is ewar, then you shouldn't be cloaked ever, but when you my find a need, you only need to for <15 seconds when cloak has the huge drawback of ewar blindness. When ewar is up, I can hide in your blind spots. Lengthy cloak durations allow you to provide intel for risky recon far more effectively and easily. Assessing enemy numbers in a small building/corridor, giving scans to the squad leader of OB strikes, or scans for your main offensive so your main force can fight efficiently. You know, scouting. My point now is that if you can't do reconnaissance as effectively with it on as you do with it off, then there is no reason to use a better cloak, and more that it is the long cloak duration that allows you to do better recon. I can sit outside a small building and see red dots inside, but I can't see their suit rolls, or visually confirm scouts inside. I can give an okay strike location, but not one that is as guaranteed to kill all the enemies. I can sit behind my allies at the front and scan, but I can't see the whole of the enemy front and pick off stragglers from within their area. Active scanners do the scanning thing just fine for a squad (and soon to be entire team), but come with a warning that let's them know. A scout is supposed to see them without them knowing and provide intel, hence the ewar bonuses. The fun parts/useful parts of being a scout can be done from 100m away by any suit with a scanner, and the need for a scout to do actual recon will be much lower, and scouts can instead focus on being stealthy light assaults. That sounds like a boring game state to be a scout in, and it also sounds like an item in the game that has little reason for use over it's advanced counterpart, and that should not be the case for anything in the game. shrug Thats all your choice and your opinion, I still think cloaks are useful and I still think E-war fit scouts are useful, even when they are both on the same fit. We can always agree to disagree (with the understanding that you are wrong )
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 73	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:19:00 - [49] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Moving across open areas. While actually scouting, flagging targets with your cursor to mark targets you want your squad to focus on instead of randomly attacking every red dot you happen to share. Hiding from groups who move into your area. Hiding from that burst HMG sentinel who is LOOKING RIGHT AT YOU and isn't firing because you're holding still and he doesn't see you. Because sometimes you want to sneak past all eight of the red dots in front of you to kill the logi supporting the inevitable sentinel spammers. Uplink clearing. Someone's gotta do it. The vehicle scanner might spot you, but the gunner won't. Dropship can't accurately drop missiles on you while you stand in the open giving him the finger between PLC shots trying to bounce him off buildings. Decloaking only when you're ready to use your sniper rifle. Because you can. And a proto cloak yields little advantage over a basic in most of those circumstances. they either rely on one or more people not seeing the shimmering in an extremely dangerous situations. Not saying people aren't blind, but any strategy that relies on you enemy to be unobservant/stupid it is risky, and one that relies on it for 40 seconds while you are blind and deaf probably needs reevaluation, or requires a mic which isn't fair to people without means, or who speak other languages. If you could tag a target, or put markers on locations without having to be squad leader, then it would be very different.(Looking at an enemy directly doesn't make them light up for your squad anymore, just you) Its risky, but successful. The fact is using the cloak properly (not trying to walk directly in front of an unengaged enemy) is just astoundingly effective. Im not sure how anyone can doubt that cloak field definitely provides a big advantage with both pubs and PC matches being absolutely infested with them. And I'd say the enhanced cloak gives the best balance in terms of fitting cost vs. cloak time, the basic cloak is pretty short and you will notice the ticking clock alot more. Not sure I'd ever use proto cloak, but then again I havent tried it. Cloak works largely because while you are cloaked you can wait until the exact moment to strike, or you need to slip by someone for just a few seconds. When cloak changes tomorrow, then you either don't bother with a nice one, or you can use it on a suit with 800ehp because you didn't invest the high/low slots on something that you don't benefit from when you cloak. Is the thing I kept seeing topic after topic about have scouts are too good at slaying people not based in large HP totals and shotgun surprises? This changes nothing for them. But what the role is designed for (as that is what 3/4ths of scouts have a bonus to) is scanning, and using a piece of equipment that only scouts can use well, only to have it negate your bonus sounds like a terrible thing to invest more than minimally in. I dont care about brick tank scouts, I think they are worthless in the larger scheme of things, they are scrubs who can be scanned and killed by just about anyone. You will rarely if ever see a brick scout running around in PC, and there is a reason for that, they suck. My problem with scouts lies with the fact that dampeners + cloak has no counter in this game and allows scouts to run around invisible, unscannable, one shotting people. There isnt a counter for this style of play even after the nerf to the cloaking device, but the nerf does make the cloaks/damp combo less useful, because they will not be able to aquire/stalk targets as well while cloaked. My preferred solution would be to change the scanning/dampening dynamic so that high level dampening will still not allow you to get within ~15-20m (distance debatable) of high level scanning without being picked up on scans, so that scanning can act as a counter to damps/cloaks. The way to make this change is to make scanning a gradient from the scanner, so that the more precision you have, the farther away things can be scanned at, and dampening on the scannee will push the distance back in towards the scanner. This not only provides a hard counter against damps/cloaks/shotguns, it also has the happy effect of making your precision/dampening mods useful regardless of what the enemy is doing. No matter what suit you or your enemy is using, dampeners will give you more room to work with, and precision/range will provide you more scanning radius. But hey if they wont fix the E-war metagame, Ill take this cloak nerf, and anything else I can get. And I am an idealist, and think that it should be done in a way that isn't so negating to a playstyle. Like increasing scouts profile, or nerfing cloak duration/recharge. Probably a combination of these and/or other things. This is akin to the RR nerf where it works, but the degree to which it was implemented was too extreme. I don't mind a reduction to range, just not one that makes my bonuses from skills/modules irrelevant when I try to use it. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 4239	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:19:00 - [50] - Quote Your first mistake was running 1 CPX Dampener instead of two.

CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 73	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:20:00 - [51] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: I tend to run 2 precision, but if cloak reduces my range to 5m, then I don't wanna use it for sniping, and should probably not run ewar if I do. That's the whole problem. Why use a cloak if doing so negates the 4 slots you invested in range/precision? If it is just in case, then you only need a basic (maybe sometimes advanced for very specific situations). It might be nice to have for the 1% of the time that the extra damping/duration might help, but you can free up a lot of fitting space buy just toning your cloak down. And I don't fit my suits for 1% situations. The scanning EWAR mods arent for when you are repositioning or running away from a concrete threat, the scanning mods are for when you are sitting there, zoomed in, taking shots and your visibility/attention is taken away from your immediate surroundings. While you are sitting there sniping, you can see most of the threats that are entering your area and respond in some way besides having to respawn. There seems to be the unspoken assertion in your posts that scouts should be cloaked the vast majority of their play time, and that being cloaked should carry no drawback. Not sure why you or anyone else would think this, but maybe its an indication of how spoiled the cloak is making you. My assertion is quite the opposite. My emphasis is that if your focus is ewar, then you shouldn't be cloaked ever, but when you my find a need, you only need to for <15 seconds when cloak has the huge drawback of ewar blindness. When ewar is up, I can hide in your blind spots. Lengthy cloak durations allow you to provide intel for risky recon far more effectively and easily. Assessing enemy numbers in a small building/corridor, giving scans to the squad leader of OB strikes, or scans for your main offensive so your main force can fight efficiently. You know, scouting. My point now is that if you can't do reconnaissance as effectively with it on as you do with it off, then there is no reason to use a better cloak, and more that it is the long cloak duration that allows you to do better recon. I can sit outside a small building and see red dots inside, but I can't see their suit rolls, or visually confirm scouts inside. I can give an okay strike location, but not one that is as guaranteed to kill all the enemies. I can sit behind my allies at the front and scan, but I can't see the whole of the enemy front and pick off stragglers from within their area. Active scanners do the scanning thing just fine for a squad (and soon to be entire team), but come with a warning that let's them know. A scout is supposed to see them without them knowing and provide intel, hence the ewar bonuses. The fun parts/useful parts of being a scout can be done from 100m away by any suit with a scanner, and the need for a scout to do actual recon will be much lower, and scouts can instead focus on being stealthy light assaults. That sounds like a boring game state to be a scout in, and it also sounds like an item in the game that has little reason for use over it's advanced counterpart, and that should not be the case for anything in the game. shrug Thats all your choice and your opinion, I still think cloaks are useful and I still think E-war fit scouts are useful, even when they are both on the same fit. We can always agree to disagree (with the understanding that you are wrong ) They are now, but come tomorrow, they won't be nearly as usefu. (and you can agree to disagree without being an *** about it) Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 145	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:26:00 - [52] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: They are now, but come tomorrow, they won't be nearly as usefu. (and you can agree to disagree without being an *** about it) Unfortunately I am me, so I cant.
Eruditus 920 Nemo Malus Felix 703	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:30:00 - [53] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: PAHHHHH!!!! Shakes fist in anger! Real scouts dont use the stooooopid clackkalaka I keep hearing "real scouts (or logis from when slayer logis were popular) don't do X" What is a "real scout"? What for the matter is a "Real assault?" Or real "logi/commando/sentinel"? Ideally dust should allow for different fits to still be viable (though not necessarily optimal), and can make it work, you should be able to go for it. That's why you can make your own fits. If you us a commando with 2 off race weapons, then it should work (but it's not very optimal) If you use a sentinel with a light weapon, it should still work (also not optimal). If you want to help your team, but still fight on the front lines, then a logi can stack HP and damage mods, and heal/resupply people after the fight. It's a fitting, and our focus should be on fixing imbalances, not chastising people for not fitting their suits to yours standards. (For the record, I hate ALL of those fits I mentioned, and they annoy the greatly to fight them) When players talk of "real scouts" what they mean (and want) is a scout that doesn't kill them. A scout that kills you must be a "slayer scout" to the player who just got killed, even if that scout only goes 1-6. Every tool in this game is ultimately used for killing. CCP said exactly this in the 1.8 Dev blog in which the cloak was first introduced and the cloak animation was revealed. "Stay gold, Ponyboy..."
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 145	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:39:00 - [54] - Quote Eruditus 920 wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: PAHHHHH!!!! Shakes fist in anger! Real scouts dont use the stooooopid clackkalaka I keep hearing "real scouts (or logis from when slayer logis were popular) don't do X" What is a "real scout"? What for the matter is a "Real assault?" Or real "logi/commando/sentinel"? Ideally dust should allow for different fits to still be viable (though not necessarily optimal), and can make it work, you should be able to go for it. That's why you can make your own fits. If you us a commando with 2 off race weapons, then it should work (but it's not very optimal) If you use a sentinel with a light weapon, it should still work (also not optimal). If you want to help your team, but still fight on the front lines, then a logi can stack HP and damage mods, and heal/resupply people after the fight. It's a fitting, and our focus should be on fixing imbalances, not chastising people for not fitting their suits to yours standards. (For the record, I hate ALL of those fits I mentioned, and they annoy the greatly to fight them) When players talk of "real scouts" what they mean (and want) is a scout that doesn't kill them. A scout that kills you must be a "slayer scout" to the player who just got killed, even if that scout only goes 1-6. Every tool in this game is ultimately used for killing. CCP said exactly this in the 1.8 Dev blog in which the cloak was first introduced and the cloak animation was revealed. Yeah, I agree with this. Personally I think the whole "Real Scout" vs. "Slayer Scout" vs. "Whatever Scout" is a red herring. In my opinion the scout's role is to feed his squad/team intel and be pretty stealthy. Unfortunately this is a game about warfare, so knowing everything and being hidden from everything gives you a massive advantage which makes scouts the best slayer fits (unless they run up against a big blob of heavies/logis where the # of eyes and amount of dps output just overwhelms even scouts). My solution to this is to break the scouts immunity to the intel portion of the game, which means he can now be scanned if he gets close enough (see precision gradient crap earlier in thread that I posted). This means the scout is now vulnerable to scanning just like everyone else and removes one of the things that makes them such good slayers: 100% stealth. And Im sure some people think scanning should lose against dampeners, but that kind of thinking results in what we have now, runaway slayer scouts that have no counter. Scanning HAS TO WIN OVER EVERYTHING otherwise there is no ability to balance. The question then becomes at what range the scanning wins. Edit to add: I want scouts to be able to kill things just like everyone else can, but they should not be at a huge advantage over all suits as they are now. If an enemy squad has a dedicated scout or logi scanning then they should be basically immune to an enemy stealth scout as long as they are sticking together. This doesnt mean the enemy scout is useless, it just means that within the scanning area provided by the scout/logi, he cannot use stealth to gain the massive advantage they are able to get now.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2743	Posted - 2014.11.03 20:13:00 - [55] - Quote jhon hartigan wrote: No. CCP wants you to be "blind" while you use that thing, you'll have to use your own eyes like everyone else... Such a nerf!!! Then I want 900 HP on a basic suit. You want us to be blind, then we get your HP. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2743	Posted - 2014.11.03 20:20:00 - [56] - Quote Also, slayer scouts don't use cloaks. I barely use them outside of pubs, and then only to cover very very bright open areas of Anus Peak (yes I purposefully left out the "M"). When the cloak becomes more of a burden than a boon, all you'll see is 1. More RE spam because extra slot=Hive+Remotes 2. MUCH more tanking as eWAR will be useless 3. Minmitar scouts will die completely because they need the cloak for dampening 4. Amarr Scouts will only be kept around for shared passives for assaults and heavies 5. Gal Scout will be even more relatively FoTM versus other scouts 6. MUCH more tanking because of extra CPU/PG and no incentive to use eWAR 7. Everyone who respecs will go Assault 8. MUCH more tanking 9. Again, MUCH more tanking I know, to nerf scouts that slay almost as well as assaults because they have high HP, we should nerf their eWAR!!??!!!!111!!!one!!! "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 145	Posted - 2014.11.03 21:20:00 - [57] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Also, slayer scouts don't use cloaks. I barely use them outside of pubs, and then only to cover very very bright open areas of Anus Peak (yes I purposefully left out the "M"). When the cloak becomes more of a burden than a boon, all you'll see is 1. More RE spam because extra slot=Hive+Remotes 2. MUCH more tanking as eWAR will be useless 3. Minmitar scouts will die completely because they need the cloak for dampening 4. Amarr Scouts will only be kept around for shared passives for assaults and heavies 5. Gal Scout will be even more relatively FoTM versus other scouts 6. MUCH more tanking because of extra CPU/PG and no incentive to use eWAR 7. Everyone who respecs will go Assault 8. MUCH more tanking 9. Again, MUCH more tanking I know, to nerf scouts that slay almost as well as assaults because they have high HP, we should nerf their eWAR!!??!!!!111!!!one!!! Well I mean, I dont want to post in this thread all day, but this is just BS and I dont want anyone to accidently read this and assume its true because no one is calling it. Starting with slayer scouts dont use cloaks and ending in "high HP" being the reason scouts are too good, every last letter of this post is horribly clueless.
Lloyd Orfay SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 157	Posted - 2014.11.03 21:26:00 - [58] - Quote The cloak nerf is barely an issue and they'll still be useable, just you can't be a jackass anymore with how you run around the maps. On small vacation surfing on Caldari Tanks.
voidfaction Nos Nothi 625	Posted - 2014.11.03 21:35:00 - [59] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Wall hacks or virtual invisibility. Choose one. HP tanked cloaked shotgun it is then. all they are doing is forcing assault scout.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5396	Posted - 2014.11.03 21:39:00 - [60] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Also, slayer scouts don't use cloaks. I barely use them outside of pubs, and then only to cover very very bright open areas of Anus Peak (yes I purposefully left out the "M"). When the cloak becomes more of a burden than a boon, all you'll see is 1. More RE spam because extra slot=Hive+Remotes 2. MUCH more tanking as eWAR will be useless 3. Minmitar scouts will die completely because they need the cloak for dampening 4. Amarr Scouts will only be kept around for shared passives for assaults and heavies 5. Gal Scout will be even more relatively FoTM versus other scouts 6. MUCH more tanking because of extra CPU/PG and no incentive to use eWAR 7. Everyone who respecs will go Assault 8. MUCH more tanking 9. Again, MUCH more tanking I know, to nerf scouts that slay almost as well as assaults because they have high HP, we should nerf their eWAR!!??!!!!111!!!one!!! Well I mean, I dont want to post in this thread all day, but this is just BS and I dont want anyone to accidently read this and assume its true because no one is calling it. Starting with slayer scouts dont use cloaks and ending in "high HP" being the reason scouts are too good, every last letter of this post is horribly clueless. If you think tanked scouts aren't a problem, then you are one of the few people who seem to be anti scout that thinks so. No 5 will very much be likely. Why? Because Gallente are the only suits that can beat whatever scans they want without the cloaks. This will result in them still being able to scan you passively and share that within squad, while fitting speed/armor/shields and still avoiding scans. Plus, they can use that extra EQ slot that would have had a cloak and steal some logi thunder. No 2, 6, 8, and 9 are all the same, and are possibilities dependent on Active Scanner conditions. Why? Because if EWAR is rendered obsolete from the changes, HP tanking will be the only recourse. A scanned scout is a dead scout, and if they want to increase viability while slaying, they will have no recourse but to tank. This may not come to pass should Active Scanning within game effectively replace passive EWAR scans. No 4 is hopefully an exaggeration, though given the fallout from the Alpha changes, I do have that fear. Much of what Minmatar do is hack and infiltrate. It does not rely solely on squads, but is the most Lone Wolf of scouts. I often use mine in enemy territory by myself, and survive because I know where the enemy is and how to avoid them. CRUs are a particular fear because even if I add a scanner to my fit, someone can spawn in after the fact and quickly gun me down mid hack. Hackers are vulnerable, and the defensive capabilities of the cloak have been neutered in addition to the offensive capabilities. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5396	Posted - 2014.11.03 21:44:00 - [61] - Quote Lloyd Orfay wrote: The cloak nerf is barely an issue and they'll still be useable, just you can't be a jackass anymore with how you run around the maps. Not if the Active Scanners are a significant presence. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4417	Posted - 2014.11.03 21:47:00 - [62] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Lloyd Orfay wrote: The cloak nerf is barely an issue and they'll still be useable, just you can't be a jackass anymore with how you run around the maps. Not if the Active Scanners are a significant presence. the likelihood of this happening without an accidental return of the scannerinas is pretty low. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5399	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:46:00 - [63] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Lloyd Orfay wrote: The cloak nerf is barely an issue and they'll still be useable, just you can't be a jackass anymore with how you run around the maps. Not if the Active Scanners are a significant presence. the likelihood of this happening without an accidental return of the scannerinas is pretty low. You also have to take into account scans will be shared with teams now. Before, it was just with squad, so even if you had 1 scannerina, you would have to have at least one per squad. Now, depending on how things work, you could have multiple people with scanners for a whole team, and if they are logis carrying multiple scanners then all the worse. Plus, with ineffective passive scans while cloaked, some scouts will be inclined to use an active scanner, I know I am thinking about it. What Active Scanning will lack in scannerinas, it may make up with quantity. How likely that is to happen, I can't say, but I can see how it could very well happen. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 75	Posted - 2014.11.04 02:28:00 - [64] - Quote Lloyd Orfay wrote: The cloak nerf is barely an issue and they'll still be useable, just you can't be a jackass anymore with how you run around the maps. I didn't say that they aren't useful, just that there is no reason for a lengthy cloak duration, and therefor proto cloak fields. Basic, and sometimes advanced will be enough. If your bonus is negated by using it, you'd wanna use it only when necessary, so strategies that used lengthy cloak durations for recon won't be nearly as useful. If proto ones provided say a 65% reduction instead, then people who want to do that roll can skill into and equip expensive mods, and still have a low radius, by it's one that doesn't negate your ewar to the point of uselessness, so you can use a cloak for tactical scouting, rather than just use a cheap one for quick assaulting/running away. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Jathniel G I A N T 1213	Posted - 2014.11.04 02:28:00 - [65] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Jathniel wrote: Nerfing scan radius while cloaked won't really fix anything. They should have increased the time to recloak. 0.33 isn't going to fix anything. Radius nerf won't make a difference, if a brief decloak is all that's necessary to grab a scan, because a scout with even a single dampener will be well hidden from medium and heavy suit scans. This won't do a damn thing to Cal Scout scan radius. Recloak delay of 3-5 seconds should have been the price to pay. But we'll see what changes tomorrow. Excuse me sir, you cannot get a sentinel's precision low enough to see an undamped scout. You can barely get it below an undamped assault with level 5 sensor dampening skill. Barely. Correct. That slipped pardon my goof. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
137H4RGIC Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 265	Posted - 2014.11.04 03:08:00 - [66] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: I run a Gallente scout, and on my proto suites I run 1 complex dampener, and a proto cloak if I can. I have a question. What incentive do I have in 1.9 to run a good cloak field? I can already hide from everything but 1 active scanner and Amarr scouts that run 2 precision mods without the cloak. In 1.9 cloaking negates the benefit of my 2 precision and 1 range mod by bringing me down to a 6.5 meter scan radius while cloaked (44m uncloaked). Being cloaked already impairs your hearing, and makes you defenseless, and now it negates your module effectiveness. Being cloaked is now a fairly detrimental state of being for little benefit, and you'd only want to do it for short periods of time, so why go proto? A basic gets the job done most of the time for cover-to-cover sprints, so is the only reason to use a good cloak to cover distances of 200 meters over open ground? I am fine with cloak being nerfed, but 85% is a HUGE reduction in my opinion. Maybe 50-65% (Lets me still benefit from my investment into scanning range, which in turn let's me benefit from my investment in precision), or a strait reduction to 15m, or a tiered reduction, (85% basic, 75% enhanced, 65% proto) would work better. Enough to let me know if I am still being chased, or when it's safe to to decloak, or run away from the hack point. You could even still provide intel if you got uncomfortably close to your enemy (since they added a decloak delay). In 1.9, you are incentivized to not be cloaked as much possible. I, for one, would like there to be a reason to use higher grade cloak fields as all cloak fields will do in general in 1.9 is a be a tool for shotgun scouts to sprint up to you, or a tool to make a quick sprint between cover, and you don't need a good cloak field to do that. I want them to be used for stalking and scouting, because that's why I am a scout. It's the scout bonus, give me a reason to use it. I wrote a play for the Dust Community. Everyone: "Scouts are running around invisible dumping on everyone, please nerf scouts or give us some sort of hard counter." Scouts: "USE YOUR EYES LOL ITS NOT HARD ROFLMAO DONT NERF SCOUTS WERE NOT OP." CCP: "We're going to nerf cloaks so you cant use passive scans nearly as well while cloaked." Scouts: "WTF WE CANT SEE EVERYONE ON SCANS CLOAK IS WORTHLESS." Everyone: "..." Everyone exits stage left, scouts cloak and exit in an unknown direction, only to come back a few seconds later to shotgun both everyone and CCP in the back, scoring one hit kills. Andddd scene. I guess now you get to use your eyes too you stupid asses. Oh my god, that post is so much win. I actually laughed outloud for a good five minutes there. D.U.S.T. Developers Underestimate Stupid Tryhards... Sorry, was reaching for an acronym.


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