I run a Gallente scout, and on my proto suites I run 1 complex dampener, and a proto cloak if I can. I have a question. What incentive do I have in 1.9 to run a good cloak field? I can already hide from everything but 1 active scanner and Amarr scouts that run 2 precision mods without the cloak. In 1.9 cloaking negates the benefit of my 2 precision and 1 range mod by bringing me down to a 6.5 meter scan radius while cloaked (44m uncloaked). Being cloaked already impairs your hearing, and makes you defenseless, and now it negates your module effectiveness. Being cloaked is now a fairly detrimental state of being for little benefit, and you'd only want to do it for short periods of time, so why go proto? A basic gets the job done most of the time for cover-to-cover sprints, so is the only reason to use a good cloak to cover distances of 200 meters over open ground?

I am fine with cloak being nerfed, but 85% is a HUGE reduction in my opinion. Maybe 50-65% (Lets me still benefit from my investment into scanning range, which in turn let's me benefit from my investment in precision), or a strait reduction to 15m, or a tiered reduction, (85% basic, 75% enhanced, 65% proto) would work better. Enough to let me know if I am still being chased, or when it's safe to to decloak, or run away from the hack point. You could even still provide intel if you got uncomfortably close to your enemy (since they added a decloak delay). In 1.9, you are incentivized to not be cloaked as much possible. I, for one, would like there to be a reason to use higher grade cloak fields as all cloak fields will do in general in 1.9 is a be a tool for shotgun scouts to sprint up to you, or a tool to make a quick sprint between cover, and you don't need a good cloak field to do that. I want them to be used for stalking and scouting, because that's why I am a scout. It's the scout bonus, give me a reason to use it.

Playing a sniper anywhere other than in the redline.

Oh look, a reason to proto up the cloak.

It took me less than a second to cook up.

Shall we go down the list I can cook up between now and getting home from work?

I do this with my PLC scouts, and it won't help you evade infantry if you can't see them. Maybe with swarms as they don't own infantry like the PLC. It's also hard to use your ears to track tanks and dropships while cloaked. They love to hide behind things, and hearing where they went is the easiest way to track them down. Maybe to check the overhead map? Seems excessive to my fitting costs though. I can see the use of a cloak maybe, but not really the benefit of a proto one. Could you explain more? Why not RE's or a nanohive instead?

Not a dot on the radar. I use a headset, so I use sound to locate them. When I used to tank pre 1.7 that was the best way to find other vehicles. That and using the overhead map. When you cloak it muffles sounds, so it's hard to hear anything useful that isn't right on top of you.

Fair point, though I'd argue that a sniper scout benefits little from having ewar. (I still do precision for my snipers, but I also stack plates and a cardiac for covering ground, as using dampening and range mods aren't worth it.)

I did ask the question of why, so please do. That's the point of this topic, discussion. If there is a problem like I see, then we flesh out a solution, if there isn't, then we have ideas on how to use modules that had their usefulness adjusted.

And a proto cloak yields little advantage over a basic in most of those circumstances. they either rely on one or more people not seeing the shimmering in an extremely dangerous situations. Not saying people aren't blind, but any strategy that relies on you enemy to be unobservant/stupid it is risky, and one that relies on it for 40 seconds while you are blind and deaf probably needs reevaluation, or requires a mic which isn't fair to people without means, or who speak other languages.

If you could tag a target, or put markers on locations without having to be squad leader, then it would be very different.(Looking at an enemy directly doesn't make them light up for your squad anymore, just you)

I tend to run 2 precision, but if cloak reduces my range to 5m, then I don't wanna use it for sniping, and should probably not run ewar if I do. That's the whole problem. Why use a cloak if doing so negates the 4 slots you invested in range/precision? If it is just in case, then you only need a basic (maybe sometimes advanced for very specific situations). It might be nice to have for the 1% of the time that the extra damping/duration might help, but you can free up a lot of fitting space buy just toning your cloak down. And I don't fit my suits for 1% situations.

Cloak works largely because while you are cloaked you can wait until the exact moment to strike, or you need to slip by someone for just a few seconds. When cloak changes tomorrow, then you either don't bother with a nice one, or you can use it on a suit with 800ehp because you didn't invest the high/low slots on something that you don't benefit from when you cloak.

Is the thing I kept seeing topic after topic about have scouts are too good at slaying people not based in large HP totals and shotgun surprises? This changes nothing for them. But what the role is designed for (as that is what 3/4ths of scouts have a bonus to) is scanning, and using a piece of equipment that only scouts can use well, only to have it negate your bonus sounds like a terrible thing to invest more than minimally in.

My assertion is quite the opposite. My emphasis is that if your focus is ewar, then you shouldn't be cloaked ever, but when you my find a need, you only need to for <15 seconds when cloak has the huge drawback of ewar blindness. When ewar is up, I can hide in your blind spots. Lengthy cloak durations allow you to provide intel for risky recon far more effectively and easily. Assessing enemy numbers in a small building/corridor, giving scans to the squad leader of OB strikes, or scans for your main offensive so your main force can fight efficiently. You know, scouting.

My point now is that if you can't do reconnaissance as effectively with it on as you do with it off, then there is no reason to use a better cloak, and more that it is the long cloak duration that allows you to do better recon. I can sit outside a small building and see red dots inside, but I can't see their suit rolls, or visually confirm scouts inside. I can give an okay strike location, but not one that is as guaranteed to kill all the enemies. I can sit behind my allies at the front and scan, but I can't see the whole of the enemy front and pick off stragglers from within their area. Active scanners do the scanning thing just fine for a squad (and soon to be entire team), but come with a warning that let's them know. A scout is supposed to see them without them knowing and provide intel, hence the ewar bonuses. The fun parts/useful parts of being a scout can be done from 100m away by any suit with a scanner, and the need for a scout to do actual recon will be much lower, and scouts can instead focus on being stealthy light assaults. That sounds like a boring game state to be a scout in, and it also sounds like an item in the game that has little reason for use over it's advanced counterpart, and that should not be the case for anything in the game.

They are now, but come tomorrow, they won't be nearly as usefu. (and you can agree to disagree without being an *** about it)

When players talk of "real scouts" what they mean (and want) is a scout that doesn't kill them.

A scout that kills you must be a "slayer scout" to the player who just got killed, even if that scout only goes 1-6.

Every tool in this game is ultimately used for killing. CCP said exactly this in the 1.8 Dev blog in which the cloak was first introduced and the cloak animation was revealed.

Also, slayer scouts don't use cloaks. I barely use them outside of pubs, and then only to cover very very bright open areas of Anus Peak (yes I purposefully left out the "M").

When the cloak becomes more of a burden than a boon, all you'll see is
1. More RE spam because extra slot=Hive+Remotes
2. MUCH more tanking as eWAR will be useless
3. Minmitar scouts will die completely because they need the cloak for dampening
4. Amarr Scouts will only be kept around for shared passives for assaults and heavies
5. Gal Scout will be even more relatively FoTM versus other scouts
6. MUCH more tanking because of extra CPU/PG and no incentive to use eWAR
7. Everyone who respecs will go Assault
8. MUCH more tanking
9. Again, MUCH more tanking


I know, to nerf scouts that slay almost as well as assaults because they have high HP, we should nerf their eWAR!!??!!!!111!!!one!!!