If you cannot think and plan on the fly, then there is always playing assault. We can always use more expendable cannon fodder in the field.

If you cannot think and plan on the fly, then there is always playing a proto-HMG sentinel. We can always use more nigh indestructible semi-AFK murder-gorillas.

Quote: so is the only reason to use a good cloak to cover distances of 200 meters over open ground?



Yes, try using the scout as a scout. It's just makes too much sense.

I run a Gallente scout, and on my proto suites I run 1 complex dampener, and a proto cloak if I can. I have a question. What incentive do I have in 1.9 to run a good cloak field? I can already hide from everything but 1 active scanner and Amarr scouts that run 2 precision mods without the cloak. In 1.9 cloaking negates the benefit of my 2 precision and 1 range mod by bringing me down to a 6.5 meter scan radius while cloaked (44m uncloaked). Being cloaked already impairs your hearing, and makes you defenseless, and now it negates your module effectiveness. Being cloaked is now a fairly detrimental state of being for little benefit, and you'd only want to do it for short periods of time, so why go proto? A basic gets the job done most of the time for cover-to-cover sprints, so is the only reason to use a good cloak to cover distances of 200 meters over open ground?

I am fine with cloak being nerfed, but 85% is a HUGE reduction in my opinion. Maybe 50-65% (Lets me still benefit from my investment into scanning range, which in turn let's me benefit from my investment in precision), or a strait reduction to 15m, or a tiered reduction, (85% basic, 75% enhanced, 65% proto) would work better. Enough to let me know if I am still being chased, or when it's safe to to decloak, or run away from the hack point. You could even still provide intel if you got uncomfortably close to your enemy (since they added a decloak delay). In 1.9, you are incentivized to not be cloaked as much possible. I, for one, would like there to be a reason to use higher grade cloak fields as all cloak fields will do in general in 1.9 is a be a tool for shotgun scouts to sprint up to you, or a tool to make a quick sprint between cover, and you don't need a good cloak field to do that. I want them to be used for stalking and scouting, because that's why I am a scout. It's the scout bonus, give me a reason to use it.

Playing a sniper anywhere other than in the redline.

Oh look, a reason to proto up the cloak.

It took me less than a second to cook up.

Shall we go down the list I can cook up between now and getting home from work?

Playing a sniper anywhere other than in the redline.

Oh look, a reason to proto up the cloak.

It took me less than a second to cook up.

Shall we go down the list I can cook up between now and getting home from work?

Oooh, Ooh, I can do this too, on a scout swarm launcher fit, cloak can help you evade infantry.

I can be a scout just fine. Have been since 1.1 when they were bad. I can lurk, and scan, and surprise JUST FINE without a cloak, and that is the point. I have no reason to use anything more than a basic one to give me brief seconds of invisibility. If I need to drop my cloak to scan, then I should just run a basic cloak.

My question was why spend the SP skilling into proto cloaks? Why spend the isk on proto cloaks? Why bother with the fitting cost of proto cloaks?

Currently there are incentives to being cloaked for a long duration. Proto cloaks add another tool to your arsenal because you can use them to sneak into heavily contested territory and provide intel to your squad like strike locations for orbitals. If you can't see, then there is no reason to put on a module that allows you to be deaf, defenseless and ewar blind for 40 seconds. I'm not gonna hack a point cloaked when I can't tell if someone spawned behind me or not. Cloak is fine, and your eyes are fine, but if you are better at scouting without cloak, and you are essentially an ewar blind, deafened, defenseless, and still fairly noticeable scout (because if you are hiding in your opponents blind spot then you don't need to be cloaked) while cloaked, then why bother with anything more than a basic cloak, or even use one at all?

Wall hacks or virtual invisibility.

Choose one.

I think there are two reason to use a proto cloak. The first is that it increases loiter time around an objective. If you're playing point defense/area denial, it allows you to stay in an over watch position for extended periods of time, while remaining invisible. In these types of situations, your eyes should be sufficient to detect incoming threats. Second, it is valuable if the cloak places you across certain dB thresholds or into the absolutely undetectable range. As a gal scout in PC, I often run two complex damps and a proto cloak. If I get scanned while uncloaked, but get a scan prevented message while cloaked, I know there is gal logi with a focused scanner . This is just one specific example, but with a couple combinations of dampening and cloak, you can parse your opponents passive and active scanning capabilities and tendencies in the first couple of minutes of a match and select your suits accordingly. If my opponent is too lazy to force me into using 2-3 complex damps, I'll use less and fit more tank and/or speed. All in all, I think the changes keep the cloak as a strong defensive tool, while removing a good deal of the offensive ability people have complained about.

-Aramis

I think there are two reason to use a proto cloak. The first is that it increases loiter time around an objective. If you're playing point defense/area denial, it allows you to stay in an over watch position for extended periods of time, while remaining invisible. In these types of situations, your eyes should be sufficient to detect incoming threats. Second, it is valuable if the cloak places you across certain dB thresholds or into the absolutely undetectable range. As a gal scout in PC, I often run two complex damps and a proto cloak. If I get scanned while uncloaked, but get a scan prevented message while cloaked, I know there is gal logi with a focused scanner . This is just one specific example, but with a couple combinations of dampening and cloak, you can parse your opponents passive and active scanning capabilities and tendencies in the first couple of minutes of a match and select your suits accordingly. If my opponent is too lazy to force me into using 2-3 complex damps, I'll use less and fit more tank and/or speed. All in all, I think the changes keep the cloak as a strong defensive tool, while removing a good deal of the offensive ability people have complained about.

-Aramis

Nerfing scan radius while cloaked won't really fix anything.

They should have increased the time to recloak. 0.33 isn't going to fix anything.

Radius nerf won't make a difference, if a brief decloak is all that's necessary to grab a scan, because a scout with even a single dampener will be well hidden from medium and heavy suit scans. This won't do a damn thing to Cal Scout scan radius.

Recloak delay of 3-5 seconds should have been the price to pay. But we'll see what changes tomorrow.

I do this with my PLC scouts, and it won't help you evade infantry if you can't see them. Maybe with swarms as they don't own infantry like the PLC. It's also hard to use your ears to track tanks and dropships while cloaked. They love to hide behind things, and hearing where they went is the easiest way to track them down. Maybe to check the overhead map? Seems excessive to my fitting costs though. I can see the use of a cloak maybe, but not really the benefit of a proto one. Could you explain more? Why not RE's or a nanohive instead?

You can fit a nanohive in your second slot (which is pretty much required in a swarm suit). Im not sure I'd use a proto one, but I'd definately love to have an enhanced. I generally dont use cloak anyway since I think its horrifically abused by alot of people and I dont want to be a part of it, and Ive deleted my swarm fit because swarms suck ass and Ive moved on to forge guns, which suck slightly less ass.

Im not sure why you think cloaks wont help you evade infantry or will somehow prevent you from tracking vehicles... do you really need a dot on the scanner 24/7 or hear the vehicle to tell you where people and vehicles are?

I still use cloaks on my sniper fit for the same reason though, evading infantry or re-positioning over open ground.

Nerfing scan radius while cloaked won't really fix anything.

They should have increased the time to recloak. 0.33 isn't going to fix anything.

Radius nerf won't make a difference, if a brief decloak is all that's necessary to grab a scan, because a scout with even a single dampener will be well hidden from medium and heavy suit scans. This won't do a damn thing to Cal Scout scan radius.

Recloak delay of 3-5 seconds should have been the price to pay. But we'll see what changes tomorrow.

Not a dot on the radar. I use a headset, so I use sound to locate them. When I used to tank pre 1.7 that was the best way to find other vehicles. That and using the overhead map. When you cloak it muffles sounds, so it's hard to hear anything useful that isn't right on top of you.

Some ways around the range nerf.

You can just Active Scan the Med/Heavy frames you pick up on passive then cloak up and go murder them.

Or you can ask somebody in squad(sup Opus Logis) to Active Scan the Med/Heavy frames you pick up on passive then cloak up and go murder them.

Or you can use the teamwide Active Scans that picked up the Med/Heavy frames you pick up on passive then cloak up and go murder them.

For scouts Im already used to not seeing them on tacnet and used to picking them up visually.

On proto cloak "worth"
Gal scout - meh not really needed. That bonus and abundance of low slots make a proto cloak a luxury.

Min scout - i have proto cloak fits just incase im going against Amarr scouts. Like 2 fits on the rare occasion a gal logi has me lit up. Having no health and being scanned sucks sooooo much.

I dont have the other 2 scouts.