Yes I know about the sound muffling, I just dont think its much of an issue. I find cloak to be very useful for swarm/sniper fit (and not in the "very useful at making it trivial to deliver 1 shot weapons at point blank range to people's asses" way that it is abused by most scouts using it), if it didnt help I'd fit uplinks or RE instead.

The point of this nerf is to make it a little harder for these shotgun douchebags to aquire/stalk targets while maintaining optical invisibility. I dont think this will fix how OP the cloak/damp/shotgun combo is, but it will help, and that is a good thing. The difference between a game with some cloaked shotgun shitstain in it and a game without is the difference between not fun and fun.

My skills are for passive ewar. If I run a scanner, I probably don't need ewar mods, and should run HP mods instead, which is the opposite of what people seem to want scouts to do. And if a teammate is scanning, then I still don't need the passive ewar. Cloak seems to be better suited for slayer scouts come 1.9.

Moving across open areas.

While actually scouting, flagging targets with your cursor to mark targets you want your squad to focus on instead of randomly attacking every red dot you happen to share.

Hiding from groups who move into your area.

Hiding from that burst HMG sentinel who is LOOKING RIGHT AT YOU and isn't firing because you're holding still and he doesn't see you.

Because sometimes you want to sneak past all eight of the red dots in front of you to kill the logi supporting the inevitable sentinel spammers.

Uplink clearing. Someone's gotta do it.

The vehicle scanner might spot you, but the gunner won't.

Dropship can't accurately drop missiles on you while you stand in the open giving him the finger between PLC shots trying to bounce him off buildings.

Decloaking only when you're ready to use your sniper rifle.

Because you can.

I was trying to say that scouts are still gonna be able to see alot on tacnet while being cloaked. This range nerf is gonna alter the way its done but its still gonna be possible.

Cloaked scouts wont be completely tacnet blind is what im trying to say basically.

PAHHHHH!!!!

*Shakes fist in anger!*

Real scouts dont use the stooooopid clackkalaka

Fair point, though I'd argue that a sniper scout benefits little from having ewar. (I still do precision for my snipers, but I also stack plates and a cardiac for covering ground, as using dampening and range mods aren't worth it.)

I did ask the question of why, so please do. That's the point of this topic, discussion. If there is a problem like I see, then we flesh out a solution, if there isn't, then we have ideas on how to use modules that had their usefulness adjusted.

Moving across open areas.

While actually scouting, flagging targets with your cursor to mark targets you want your squad to focus on instead of randomly attacking every red dot you happen to share.

Hiding from groups who move into your area.

Hiding from that burst HMG sentinel who is LOOKING RIGHT AT YOU and isn't firing because you're holding still and he doesn't see you.

Because sometimes you want to sneak past all eight of the red dots in front of you to kill the logi supporting the inevitable sentinel spammers.

Uplink clearing. Someone's gotta do it.

The vehicle scanner might spot you, but the gunner won't.

Dropship can't accurately drop missiles on you while you stand in the open giving him the finger between PLC shots trying to bounce him off buildings.

Decloaking only when you're ready to use your sniper rifle.

Because you can.

And a proto cloak yields little advantage over a basic in most of those circumstances. they either rely on one or more people not seeing the shimmering in an extremely dangerous situations. Not saying people aren't blind, but any strategy that relies on you enemy to be unobservant/stupid it is risky, and one that relies on it for 40 seconds while you are blind and deaf probably needs reevaluation, or requires a mic which isn't fair to people without means, or who speak other languages.

If you could tag a target, or put markers on locations without having to be squad leader, then it would be very different.(Looking at an enemy directly doesn't make them light up for your squad anymore, just you)

Snipers benefit quite a bit from EWAR, equipping one precision and one range will let you know when any heavy/medium/undamped scouts are coming up to you so you can leave or RE them or whatever. I usually run (on Cal Scout): x2 shield extenders, x1 precision enhancer, x1 damage mod, x1 dampener, x1 range enhancer, gives you some good scanning to avoid problems and give you a comfort zone while zoomed in, and allows you to evade most scans which might make you a target otherwise.

And a proto cloak yields little advantage over a basic in most of those circumstances. they either rely on one or more people not seeing the shimmering in an extremely dangerous situations. Not saying people aren't blind, but any strategy that relies on you enemy to be unobservant/stupid it is risky, and one that relies on it for 40 seconds while you are blind and deaf probably needs reevaluation, or requires a mic which isn't fair to people without means, or who speak other languages.

If you could tag a target, or put markers on locations without having to be squad leader, then it would be very different.(Looking at an enemy directly doesn't make them light up for your squad anymore, just you)

I tend to run 2 precision, but if cloak reduces my range to 5m, then I don't wanna use it for sniping, and should probably not run ewar if I do. That's the whole problem. Why use a cloak if doing so negates the 4 slots you invested in range/precision? If it is just in case, then you only need a basic (maybe sometimes advanced for very specific situations). It might be nice to have for the 1% of the time that the extra damping/duration might help, but you can free up a lot of fitting space buy just toning your cloak down. And I don't fit my suits for 1% situations.

Its risky, but successful. The fact is using the cloak properly (not trying to walk directly in front of an unengaged enemy) is just astoundingly effective.

Im not sure how anyone can doubt that cloak field definitely provides a big advantage with both pubs and PC matches being absolutely infested with them.

And I'd say the enhanced cloak gives the best balance in terms of fitting cost vs. cloak time, the basic cloak is pretty short and you will notice the ticking clock alot more. Not sure I'd ever use proto cloak, but then again I havent tried it.

Cloak works largely because while you are cloaked you can wait until the exact moment to strike, or you need to slip by someone for just a few seconds. When cloak changes tomorrow, then you either don't bother with a nice one, or you can use it on a suit with 800ehp because you didn't invest the high/low slots on something that you don't benefit from when you cloak.

Is the thing I kept seeing topic after topic about have scouts are too good at slaying people not based in large HP totals and shotgun surprises? This changes nothing for them. But what the role is designed for (as that is what 3/4ths of scouts have a bonus to) is scanning, and using a piece of equipment that only scouts can use well, only to have it negate your bonus sounds like a terrible thing to invest more than minimally in.

The scanning EWAR mods arent for when you are repositioning or running away from a concrete threat, the scanning mods are for when you are sitting there, zoomed in, taking shots and your visibility/attention is taken away from your immediate surroundings. While you are sitting there sniping, you can see most of the threats that are entering your area and respond in some way besides having to respawn.

There seems to be the unspoken assertion in your posts that scouts should be cloaked the vast majority of their play time, and that being cloaked should carry no drawback. Not sure why you or anyone else would think this, but maybe its an indication of how spoiled the cloak is making you.

My assertion is quite the opposite. My emphasis is that if your focus is ewar, then you shouldn't be cloaked ever, but when you my find a need, you only need to for <15 seconds when cloak has the huge drawback of ewar blindness. When ewar is up, I can hide in your blind spots. Lengthy cloak durations allow you to provide intel for risky recon far more effectively and easily. Assessing enemy numbers in a small building/corridor, giving scans to the squad leader of OB strikes, or scans for your main offensive so your main force can fight efficiently. You know, scouting.

My point now is that if you can't do reconnaissance as effectively with it on as you do with it off, then there is no reason to use a better cloak, and more that it is the long cloak duration that allows you to do better recon. I can sit outside a small building and see red dots inside, but I can't see their suit rolls, or visually confirm scouts inside. I can give an okay strike location, but not one that is as guaranteed to kill all the enemies. I can sit behind my allies at the front and scan, but I can't see the whole of the enemy front and pick off stragglers from within their area. Active scanners do the scanning thing just fine for a squad (and soon to be entire team), but come with a warning that let's them know. A scout is supposed to see them without them knowing and provide intel, hence the ewar bonuses. The fun parts/useful parts of being a scout can be done from 100m away by any suit with a scanner, and the need for a scout to do actual recon will be much lower, and scouts can instead focus on being stealthy light assaults. That sounds like a boring game state to be a scout in, and it also sounds like an item in the game that has little reason for use over it's advanced counterpart, and that should not be the case for anything in the game.

I dont care about brick tank scouts, I think they are worthless in the larger scheme of things, they are scrubs who can be scanned and killed by just about anyone. You will rarely if ever see a brick scout running around in PC, and there is a reason for that, they suck. My problem with scouts lies with the fact that dampeners + cloak has no counter in this game and allows scouts to run around invisible, unscannable, one shotting people.

There isnt a counter for this style of play even after the nerf to the cloaking device, but the nerf does make the cloaks/damp combo less useful, because they will not be able to aquire/stalk targets as well while cloaked.

My preferred solution would be to change the scanning/dampening dynamic so that high level dampening will still not allow you to get within ~15-20m (distance debatable) of high level scanning without being picked up on scans, so that scanning can act as a counter to damps/cloaks. The way to make this change is to make scanning a gradient from the scanner, so that the more precision you have, the farther away things can be scanned at, and dampening on the scannee will push the distance back in towards the scanner. This not only provides a hard counter against damps/cloaks/shotguns, it also has the happy effect of making your precision/dampening mods useful regardless of what the enemy is doing. No matter what suit you or your enemy is using, dampeners will give you more room to work with, and precision/range will provide you more scanning radius.

But hey if they wont fix the E-war metagame, Ill take this cloak nerf, and anything else I can get.

*shrug*

Thats all your choice and your opinion, I still think cloaks are useful and I still think E-war fit scouts are useful, even when they are both on the same fit. We can always agree to disagree (with the understanding that you are wrong )

They are now, but come tomorrow, they won't be nearly as usefu. (and you can agree to disagree without being an *** about it)

I keep hearing "real scouts (or logis from when slayer logis were popular) don't do X" What is a "real scout"? What for the matter is a "Real assault?" Or real "logi/commando/sentinel"? Ideally dust should allow for different fits to still be viable (though not necessarily optimal), and can make it work, you should be able to go for it. That's why you can make your own fits. If you us a commando with 2 off race weapons, then it should work (but it's not very optimal) If you use a sentinel with a light weapon, it should still work (also not optimal). If you want to help your team, but still fight on the front lines, then a logi can stack HP and damage mods, and heal/resupply people after the fight. It's a fitting, and our focus should be on fixing imbalances, not chastising people for not fitting their suits to yours standards.

(For the record, I hate ALL of those fits I mentioned, and they annoy the greatly to fight them)

When players talk of "real scouts" what they mean (and want) is a scout that doesn't kill them.

A scout that kills you must be a "slayer scout" to the player who just got killed, even if that scout only goes 1-6.

Every tool in this game is ultimately used for killing. CCP said exactly this in the 1.8 Dev blog in which the cloak was first introduced and the cloak animation was revealed.

No. CCP wants you to be "blind" while you use that thing, you'll have to use your own eyes like everyone else... Such a nerf!!!

Also, slayer scouts don't use cloaks. I barely use them outside of pubs, and then only to cover very very bright open areas of Anus Peak (yes I purposefully left out the "M").

When the cloak becomes more of a burden than a boon, all you'll see is
1. More RE spam because extra slot=Hive+Remotes
2. MUCH more tanking as eWAR will be useless
3. Minmitar scouts will die completely because they need the cloak for dampening
4. Amarr Scouts will only be kept around for shared passives for assaults and heavies
5. Gal Scout will be even more relatively FoTM versus other scouts
6. MUCH more tanking because of extra CPU/PG and no incentive to use eWAR
7. Everyone who respecs will go Assault
8. MUCH more tanking
9. Again, MUCH more tanking


I know, to nerf scouts that slay almost as well as assaults because they have high HP, we should nerf their eWAR!!??!!!!111!!!one!!!

Wall hacks or virtual invisibility.

Choose one.

Well I mean, I dont want to post in this thread all day, but this is just BS and I dont want anyone to accidently read this and assume its true because no one is calling it.

Starting with slayer scouts dont use cloaks and ending in "high HP" being the reason scouts are too good, every last letter of this post is horribly clueless.