I see absolutely nothing wrong with adding a drop suit that helps pilots. People talk about how it would be nothing but an SP sink. Instead of being negative and giving me a hundred scenarios as to why it would not work, why not come up with something that makes it work? Why does it always have to be met with resistance?

I don't know why MTAC's are seen as a joke of a thing that CCP never really thought through while Pilot Suits continue to be something that the playerbase want.

Coming up with ways "it can work" or at least "what it can do" is easy enough. It has been done in this thread about making it reduce cooldowns on modules (there is a skill for that), make modules last longer (skill for that), give bonuses to repair (guess what? Skill exists), turret rotation (Yup), reduce the movement penalty from armor (it's a newer one, but yes), and shield recharge delay reduction (this one is actually not in game providing you mean recharge from damage and not depleted). But, yes, I am going to hold to the fact that all of this falls into Scenario 1 or 2. Either a balance problem or CCP saying "put more effort in to do what you are supposed to do."

Allow me to flip the scenario a little bit with AV. When most Vehicles were too powerful in early 1.7 (60/40 Hardeners and better Repairers) you didn't have AV guys screaming for a better suit in order to take out the Tanks. You had suggestions of either "nerf that" or "buff this." With Vehicles on the cusp of being slightly weak compared to AV, the Pilot Suit rears its head again as a suggestion. This is curious to me: rather than suggesting modifying the skills, the modules, or even to the Vehicles themselves that an entirely new system is to be designed. Yes, Pilot Suits were originally mentioned and even showed up in the Skill Tree but to an extent MTAC's also did. I don't know why MTAC's are seen as a joke of a thing that CCP never really thought through while Pilot Suits continue to be something that the playerbase want.

The simple argument is the one that I prefer less but it is the easiest to get through: "Why does Tank Man have to put points in 4 different Trees when AV Man only does 3? Also, why does my fourth Tree do absolutely nothing to help any other role I can do while only AV Man Trees mostly follow outside his Anti-Vehicle Role?"

You're right, skills do exist that modify that, but as stated before, the vehicle provides the baseline defenses, the suit provides the racial flair and heavily modifies the utility. For example you could take a Gunnlogi and put a Caldari Pilot in, the HAV now has better turret reload speed and better acceleration. You put a Minmatar Pilot in that same HAV and now it has faster Turret tracking and higher top speed. This is very similar to how Strategic Cruisers work in EVE, the hull of the ship is the same, but depending on what subsystems you put on it, it modifies the role of the ship. In this case the pilot and its Link modules play the role of the subsystem, modifying the base hull + skill bonuses. It's simply a means to further customize the vehicle, particularly since vehicle fitting is well....boring as ****.



AV vs Vehicle Player hatred is annoying, particularly people who think the other wants to be overpowered. People who are true AV/Vehicle players genuinely understand that there needs to be proper balance on both sides so it is fun for each other. So when I suggest a pilot suit and explicitly state that it is important that we avoid direct buffs to defense because it overly upsets that AV / Vehicle balance, I actually mean it. The point here is to make vehicle piloting more interesting, not be a "ERMERGERD IM LOSING TO AV SO BUFF MEEEE".

In fact much of what I've proposed is more directed to utility, and I've reluctantly added defensive links and stated that I'm a little uncomfortable with them. I think it would be fair to say that defensive Link Modules would provide both a benefit and a downside, as to customized and push the specialization of the vehicle in a certain direction. For example a Shield Hardener link may increase the duration of your shield hardeners, but also increase your shield delay proportionally. A buff and a nerf at the same time, but you have control over it.

Utility on the other hand, I don't see much of a need for downsides but that's up for debate.



The average maxed out infantry with an AV and AP weapon, maxed defenses, utility, ect. comes out to around 33 million SP.

A maxed out specialty vehicle with a Large and Small turret, maxed defenses, utility, ect comes out to around 30 million SP.

Now to me, it makes sense that link modules that affect the vehicle modules, would be tied to the skills that also affect those vehicle modules. For example a vehicle Scan Link for your pilot suit would be the same skill that you need to fit and use vehicle scanners. That being said, you essentially train your pilot suit modules at the same time you train your vehicle modules. In turn, the only additional SP investment would be the Pilot Suit frame itself, which does not exceed 3 million additional SP. This means that both roles max out around the 32-33 million SP mark, this seems reasonable to me. Saying "It's more skill trees!" is meaningless, the only thing that matters is SP investment.

Joseph Ridgeson seems to be one of the biggest anti-pilot suits person. Almost every pilot suit thread I have read, he is there saying why it wouldn't work or how it would unbalance the game. So, ignore the scrub...

Anyway...

Lost Apollo, True Adamance and Pokey Dravon, continue on. You guys are on to something here.

Pretty much True, fit the Pilot suit with Link modules which boost specific attributes of the vehicle. Then the racial bonus on the suits can offer bonuses to specific link modules, to encourage their use.

So like, you have your Minmatar Pilot suit, and its racial bonus is that it gets a bonus to Overdrive Links and Tracking Computer Links. You Fit Overdrives and Tracking computer links to your pilot suit, racial bonus buffs them further, and now you have a pilot suit that makes a vehicle very zippy with fast acceleration and turret turn speed for easy tracking, perfect for a hit and run Minmatar style of gameplay.

Take a Gallente suit with bonuses Injector/Afterburner Links and Active Scanner links, fit the suit with those modules, now you have a pilot perfect for flying around in an LAV or Dropship doing scans of an area.

Or perhaps you take an Amarr Pilot which gets bonuses to mCRU Links, fit those links to the suit and make it the ideal suit for a Logistics dropship, providing fast spawns into the vehicle.



Dissenting opinions are great as long as people can constructively have a conversation about while being logical and unbiased. As long as people can do that I enjoy different opinions, so the end result of the discussion is as well rounded as possible.

In my vision of vehicles Pilot's being their own class, and supported with a specialised dropsuit.

I would like Vehicle users to begin to consider their vehicle their primary suit by restricting them to Combat Ineffective Dropsuit Options if they want to use their vehicles in competitive levels.

Especially if Embarkment and Disembarkment timers are implemented which I suggest scales off of dropsuit frame size, meaning that larger suit frames take longer to embark and disembark, preventing them from immediately hopping into and out of vehicle to escape what should be our deaths.

Moreover I feel that with a tangible representation in the game vehicle operator would have a mean by which to affirm their chosen role like the other classes.

It would appear to me that most of us seem to be in agreeance. Using the pilot suits slots to fit link modules in definitely takes away from their combat viability, outside of their vehicles.. Sure they have a side arm and a grenade slot but what's that going to do when you only have 200 eHP? I think if we are going to give bonuses to link modules then they need to be based on the races themselves. I also like the link module PG/CPU reduction per level BUT I think if you want the prototype bonuses then you need to be wearing the prototype pilot suit. This would also solve the issue of people putting their skill up to 5 and just running a standard suit. Besides that, wearing the prototype suit means you can fit more link mods. I would probably go with the most basic grenade, above militia, and the same for the side arm. For me, if I were to ever used it, it would be more about stacking the link mods.

Honestly they only need a sidearm, 0-1 equipment, no grenades. The suit should more or less be useless outside of a vehicle.

As for the bonuses, the suit should only give bonuses to link modules, and nothing directly to the vehicle itself; you have to equip those link modules to gain any benefit from the bonus. That way you don't need to break existing mechanics by saying "Oh you have to be in a proto suit to get the full bonus." Prototype suit just allows you to stack more Link Modules, and thus get a larger benefit from your suit bonuses.

What do you think of raciak bonuses True?

Got a warning from CCP. do not click the link!!!!

lol wot m8

When I clicked on the link a warning page from CCP came up saying something about spammers and keyloggers. I went ahead and clicked on it and that picture was from some time ago? If that is true then why was the idea pulled? If this is true then it also tells me that they already know how to build a pilot suit. I think it just needs a little bit of modification, to make it more viable and a vehicle as opposed to being viable on the field. I believe that a pilot should be able to defend himself when out of his vehicle but not very well at all.

Still lovin the link module idea!!!

Ok... here I go again lol.

Pilot Suit Bonus Proposal (based somewhat one the picture)

Keep the Pilot suit close to thr Scout suit. Read the thing I posted about the Minmatar Basic Light Frame vs the Scout vs possible Pilot suit. Take away the grenade slot and 1 of the equipment slots (if there were 2).

All pilot suits - 10% to active vehicle module CD/level (max 50%)
Minmatar - 5% to efficiency of vehicle weapon damage modules (max 25%)
Caldari - 2% to vehicle shield extender (or recharge, not both) modules per level (max 10%)
Amarr - 2% to efficiency of vehicle armor plating modules per level (max 10%)
Gallente - 2% to efficiency of armor repair modules per level (max 10%)

These bonuses do not seem OP (may need to do somthing different with Minmatar). This is my idea based off that picture. if it seems to much, please give another suggestion. Simply saying that it will not work is not a good argument. This kind of plays off of the "bonus to link mods" idea.

This is the very reason Rattati needs to stop by and say something.

Personally disagree with you Mr Dravon on this one. Specifically as I see it the pilot suit should be role affirming, a restriction placed to the use of specialist vehicles it could provide simple direct bonuses to vehicles themselves, were talking incremental 1% per level increased to base stats like acceleration, turret tracking, handling etc.

I do however link modules are wonderful.

Sort of like Implants for our pilots that enhance one skill/ attribute of the HAV by X% based on a combination of your dropsuit (aka Proto Pilots fit better links than non pilots) and your Link Skill itself.

I get impatient at times lol. I will refrain from asking Rattati to say something lol.

Thanks Cross. Sorry for our whining lol.