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Do the Devs even play their own game?

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Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:03:00 - [1] - Quote So, in my long career of gaming, almost every game I've played, the Devs actually played their own game. They even let the players beta test their patches before coming out. I know that Sony won't let CCP let us beta test patches, or maybe that's a CCP policy. I don't know and I don't care. The point of this thread is to ask the Devs, specifically, if they even play their own game before they release a patch that is, in their eyes, good and balancing. So, I am heavily invested in this game and am always disappointed when you come out with a patch that completely ruin the meta and gameplay of the game. I don't know why you thought it was a good idea to nerf the dropships the way you did. I don't know why you took away the precision bonus from Caldari Scouts and gave it to the Galente and the Amarr. That is, as far as I can tell from the lore, that is completely contrary to what those races are - statwise, at least. So, Devs, do you actually play your own game while coming up with these 'balances' or do you just look at raw numbers and say 'oh, well, that number clearly shouldn't be like that, so we'll change it' or 'Well, we don't like how people are using that feature, so we'll nerf the crap out of it' or do you just listen and actually change things when enough people cry about something?
CharacterNameWasTaken G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 113	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:04:00 - [2] - Quote Rattati does but i think the onky other one would be archeduke but he is a gm.
hfderrtgvcd 662	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:07:00 - [3] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: So, in my long career of gaming, almost every game I've played, the Devs actually played their own game. They even let the players beta test their patches before coming out. I know that Sony won't let CCP let us beta test patches, or maybe that's a CCP policy. I don't know and I don't care. The point of this thread is to ask the Devs, specifically, if they even play their own game before they release a patch that is, in their eyes, good and balancing. So, I am heavily invested in this game and am always disappointed when you come out with a patch that completely ruin the meta and gameplay of the game. I don't know why you thought it was a good idea to nerf the dropships the way you did. I don't know why you took away the precision bonus from Caldari Scouts and gave it to the Galente and the Amarr. That is, as far as I can tell from the lore, that is completely contrary to what those races are - statwise, at least. So, Devs, do you actually play your own game while coming up with these 'balances' or do you just look at raw numbers and say 'oh, well, that number clearly shouldn't be like that, so we'll change it' or 'Well, we don't like how people are using that feature, so we'll nerf the crap out of it' or do you just listen and actually change things when enough people cry about something? ccp rattati and gm archduke play quite frequently, although rattati usually plays on a non-ccp account. Also, take a look at this https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=1775. The devs look at player feedback before they make a change. You complaining after its already been made doesn't help You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3979	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:09:00 - [4] - Quote Additionally to CCP Rattati, who was playing the game long before he was in charge of fixing the game, CCP Logibro was a player of the game before he was hired by CCP. The game is balanced both on statistics and player feedback, with input from the CPM as well. Unfortunately, it is impossible to run a test server for a PS3 game. We'd all love to have one, but it's just outside the scope of practicality. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:13:00 - [5] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: So, in my long career of gaming, almost every game I've played, the Devs actually played their own game. They even let the players beta test their patches before coming out. I know that Sony won't let CCP let us beta test patches, or maybe that's a CCP policy. I don't know and I don't care. The point of this thread is to ask the Devs, specifically, if they even play their own game before they release a patch that is, in their eyes, good and balancing. So, I am heavily invested in this game and am always disappointed when you come out with a patch that completely ruin the meta and gameplay of the game. I don't know why you thought it was a good idea to nerf the dropships the way you did. I don't know why you took away the precision bonus from Caldari Scouts and gave it to the Galente and the Amarr. That is, as far as I can tell from the lore, that is completely contrary to what those races are - statwise, at least. So, Devs, do you actually play your own game while coming up with these 'balances' or do you just look at raw numbers and say 'oh, well, that number clearly shouldn't be like that, so we'll change it' or 'Well, we don't like how people are using that feature, so we'll nerf the crap out of it' or do you just listen and actually change things when enough people cry about something? ccp rattati and gm archduke play quite frequently, although rattati usually plays on a non-ccp account. Also, take a look at this https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=1775. The devs look at player feedback before they make a change. You complaining after its already been made doesn't help I;m not complaining. I'm asking a question. Form the content of the patches and feedback, it seems to me that they don't play their own game and see that some of the things they are nerfing, actually doesn't need to be nerfed and some things that need to be buffed, don't get buffed. When they nerfed the Caldari Assault, it was to force players to stop using it because too many people used it and they complained about it. All the other assaults were good, but the Caldari was used too often.
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:15:00 - [6] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Additionally to CCP Rattati, who was playing the game long before he was in charge of fixing the game, CCP Logibro was a player of the game before he was hired by CCP. The game is balanced both on statistics and player feedback, with input from the CPM as well. Unfortunately, it is impossible to run a test server for a PS3 game. We'd all love to have one, but it's just outside the scope of practicality. Again, it doesn't look like they play their own game. Rattati called Dropships a 'Force Multiplier'. That's BS. Tanks are a force multiplier. Any AV on the board now makes Dropships near useless, especially after their nerf. I would like a DEV to respond to this question instead of random players that just speculate.
Atiim 12794	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:18:00 - [7] - Quote Why is it that every "Do DEVs even DUST?" thread is made by butthurt FoTM Scrubs and Pilots? The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3981	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:19:00 - [8] - Quote The reality on the ADS, was that it was an incredible outlier statistically. It's still overpowered, depending how you measure it, it's just... less OP now than it was before. Plenty of ADS players have stated otherwise, but they're also heavily biased, and the reality is, they're just closer to the level of play others experience now. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:19:00 - [9] - Quote Atiim wrote: Why is it that every "Do DEVs even DUST?" thread is made by butthurt FoTM Scrubs and Pilots? I play an Amarr Assault with Scrambler Rifle and Laser Rifle. I'm so far away from FoTM that it isn't even funny. I have the isk to run my protos even if I die to a bolt pistol, lol.
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1261	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:21:00 - [10] - Quote ab nerf just means pilot has to change his assault pattern, we now either choose to wait it out for ab to come back online or decide to risk it while it's cooling down. ab cd was op from the beginning. there was no reason to even use anything higher than a basic ab before the nerf. the prenerf cool down allowed pilot to virtually after burn continuosly, the cooldown was almost not even there. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012

Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:22:00 - [11] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: The reality on the ADS, was that it was an incredible outlier statistically. It's still overpowered, depending how you measure it, it's just... less OP now than it was before. Plenty of ADS players have stated otherwise, but they're also heavily biased, and the reality is, they're just closer to the level of play others experience now. I know we aren't supposed to swear, but that statement is bullshit. Do you actually listen to the community? I've listened to non pilots that say that the ADS nerf was a bit too much. ADS could always be handled with decent AV. Always. I sometimes fly dropships and this nerf was kind of ridiculous. Now they are wanting to change the whole ADS meta by changing the Python and Incubus bonuses? Where do they get off on that?
Orphan Shadow Waiting For Deployment 181	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:22:00 - [12] - Quote How hard is it to search for Rattati's posting history and see for yourself before attempting to shame him? Why on earth would you cry about CCP not listening to player feedback when there is an entire subforum dedicated to it? Why didn't you participate in the Delta feedback process? It's not perfect, but far better than the picture you are trying to paint. As long as we're all here though, why don't you post your suggestions to fix instead of just bellyaching that things are broken? We'd be happy to pass it along since Echo feedback threads are already in progress.
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:25:00 - [13] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: ab nerf just means pilot has to change his assault pattern, we now either choose to wait it out for ab to come back online or decide to risk it while it's cooling down. ab cd was op from the beginning. On top of taking away active reps in 1.7 and the armor and shield hardener nerf and the armor rep nerf. I'm sorry, but when I did fly ADS, I stopped when the AB nerf hit, not to mention the HUUUUUUGE nerf to rate of fire for Pythons.
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1261	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:26:00 - [14] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: The reality on the ADS, was that it was an incredible outlier statistically. It's still overpowered, depending how you measure it, it's just... less OP now than it was before. Plenty of ADS players have stated otherwise, but they're also heavily biased, and the reality is, they're just closer to the level of play others experience now. I know we aren't supposed to swear, but that statement is bullshit. Do you actually listen to the community? I've listened to non pilots that say that the ADS nerf was a bit too much. ADS could always be handled with decent AV. Always. I sometimes fly dropships and this nerf was kind of ridiculous. Now they are wanting to change the whole ADS meta by changing the Python and Incubus bonuses? Where do they get off on that? because the bonus currently is BS.. after nerf i dont need +15 ROF for 3 million SP.. this is good news. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:26:00 - [15] - Quote Orphan Shadow wrote: How hard is it to search for Rattati's posting history and see for yourself before attempting to shame him? Why on earth would you cry about CCP not listening to player feedback when there is an entire subforum dedicated to it? Why didn't you participate in the Delta feedback process? It's not perfect, but far better than the picture you are trying to paint. As long as we're all here though, why don't you post your suggestions to fix instead of just bellyaching that things are broken? We'd be happy to pass it along since Echo feedback threads are already in progress. i'm not specifically calling ratatatata out, Im calling CCP out as a whole. Are we just going to overlook them snubbing us at EVE Fanfest and pretty much killing Dust and waiting out the Sony contract to end so they can maybe get a green light on Legion?
Orphan Shadow Waiting For Deployment 181	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:27:00 - [16] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: I would like a DEV to respond to this question instead of random players that just speculate. Are you serious? Why are you so special Rattati needs to spoon feed you? He's answered your questions several times, because you aren't a unique snowflake and it's all been asked before. Use the search button before the post button.
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:29:00 - [17] - Quote Orphan Shadow wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: I would like a DEV to respond to this question instead of random players that just speculate. Are you serious? Why are you so special Rattati needs to spoon feed you? He's answered your questions several times, because you aren't a unique snowflake and it's all been asked before. Use the search button before the post button. I love how you think Ratata is the only CCP Dev able to respond. I'm not calling him out specifically. Also, I don't need to appeal to you. This is a general discussion thread and I'd like a general discussion with some devs. Why are you getting so defensive?
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3982	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:30:00 - [18] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: i'm not specifically calling ratatatata out, Im calling CCP out as a whole. Are we just going to overlook them snubbing us at EVE Fanfest and pretty much killing Dust and waiting out the Sony contract to end so they can maybe get a green light on Legion? FYI: This whole thing about waiting out a Sony contract for greenlighting bit... complete nonsense. Tinfoiling at it's best. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
postapo wastelander Wasteland Desert Rangers 147	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:31:00 - [19] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Additionally to CCP Rattati, who was playing the game long before he was in charge of fixing the game, CCP Logibro was a player of the game before he was hired by CCP. The game is balanced both on statistics and player feedback, with input from the CPM as well. Unfortunately, it is impossible to run a test server for a PS3 game. We'd all love to have one, but it's just outside the scope of practicality. You know whats sad, you (offcourse i meant devs) cant use that zippers experimental servers from MAG. Just imagine scale of fights with thats beasts "The human being was not chosen to be a god..the god himself should become a human being."
mollerz 5439	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:32:00 - [20] - Quote I think the issue you are taking umbrage with isn't whether the devs play or don't play. The game has always suffered from a severe lack of QA. And I think that is the concern you actually have. I'm seriously fukn serious

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4620	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:33:00 - [21] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: The reality on the ADS, was that it was an incredible outlier statistically. It's still overpowered, depending how you measure it, it's just... less OP now than it was before. Plenty of ADS players have stated otherwise, but they're also heavily biased, and the reality is, they're just closer to the level of play others experience now. I know we aren't supposed to swear, but that statement is bullshit. Do you actually listen to the community? I've listened to non pilots that say that the ADS nerf was a bit too much. ADS could always be handled with decent AV. Always. I sometimes fly dropships and this nerf was kind of ridiculous. Now they are wanting to change the whole ADS meta by changing the Python and Incubus bonuses? Where do they get off on that? Yes, they do listen. When the Charlie sniper recticle change didn't go over well in all situations, they got feedback and now have different recticles for different SRs. When the Cal Scout slot changes were occurring before Charlie, they were originally slated to have 1 LS at advanced, and the community convinced them to keep the 2 LS at advanced. There are many other examples of devs listening to feedback. Just because they don't always do exactly what we want doesn't mean they aren't collaborative. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:34:00 - [22] - Quote mollerz wrote: I think the issue you are taking umbrage with isn't whether the devs play or don't play. The game has always suffered from a severe lack of QA. And I think that is the concern you actually have. Yes, that is it, actually. CCP plays things so close to the chest it's ridiculous. I also love how defensive people are getting for Ratatata
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:48:00 - [23] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: The reality on the ADS, was that it was an incredible outlier statistically. It's still overpowered, depending how you measure it, it's just... less OP now than it was before. Plenty of ADS players have stated otherwise, but they're also heavily biased, and the reality is, they're just closer to the level of play others experience now. I know we aren't supposed to swear, but that statement is bullshit. Do you actually listen to the community? I've listened to non pilots that say that the ADS nerf was a bit too much. ADS could always be handled with decent AV. Always. I sometimes fly dropships and this nerf was kind of ridiculous. Now they are wanting to change the whole ADS meta by changing the Python and Incubus bonuses? Where do they get off on that? Yes, they do listen. When the Charlie sniper recticle change didn't go over well in all situations, they got feedback and now have different recticles for different SRs. When the Cal Scout slot changes were occurring before Charlie, they were originally slated to have 1 LS at advanced, and the community convinced them to keep the 2 LS at advanced. There are many other examples of devs listening to feedback. Just because they don't always do exactly what we want doesn't mean they aren't collaborative. Those don't really count, in my opinion, since they don't change the meta of the game. People were fine with the old recticles, just more people wanted them different. Having 1 LS for the adv Cal Scout was fine, it's just more people didn't want to change their gameplay with an adv cal scout cause they didn't want to use a proto. The changes they've been making have been changing the meta of the game drastically. My real question is 'Do they play their own game and do they see the effects of their changes if they do, in fact, play their own game'? Look at the Bolt pistol. It can three shot, or four shot, ANYTHING on the board right now. Sure, they reduced the RoF, but it still does a metric ton of damage per shot, even without a damage mod or prof. MLT gear is more on the terms of ADV/Proto gear for their price. Have they listened to the people that want MLT gear nerfed more? It took them what, 5 patches to put the Battle Academy back to what it was. Well, at least almost back to what it was.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4624	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:50:00 - [24] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: mollerz wrote: I think the issue you are taking umbrage with isn't whether the devs play or don't play. The game has always suffered from a severe lack of QA. And I think that is the concern you actually have. Yes, that is it, actually. CCP plays things so close to the chest it's ridiculous. I also love how defensive people are getting for Ratatata Yeah, its weird. It is almost like some people have been here a very long time, and got nearly completely ignored by the Devs then working on the game, as they ran it into the ground before abandoning it only to have Rattati come in and actually listing to the players and make reasonable adjustments that actually improved the game much more than that larger group of Devs and manpower did in the many months they had. We should probably just ignore that effort since the game isn't perfect and we all don't get exactly what we want when we want it... You can always tell a Millford Minja
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4624	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:53:00 - [25] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: Those don't really count, in my opinion, since they don't change the meta of the game. People were fine with the old recticles, just more people wanted them different. Having 1 LS for the adv Cal Scout was fine, it's just more people didn't want to change their gameplay with an adv cal scout cause they didn't want to use a proto. The changes they've been making have been changing the meta of the game drastically. My real question is 'Do they play their own game and do they see the effects of their changes if they do, in fact, play their own game'? Look at the Bolt pistol. It can three shot, or four shot, ANYTHING on the board right now. Sure, they reduced the RoF, but it still does a metric ton of damage per shot, even without a damage mod or prof. MLT gear is more on the terms of ADV/Proto gear for their price. Have they listened to the people that want MLT gear nerfed more? It took them what, 5 patches to put the Battle Academy back to what it was. Well, at least almost back to what it was. Lets look at the meta as it is now: Greater suit variety than ever before. Greater weapon variety than ever before. Such a crappy meta Rattati and Logibro have put together... You can always tell a Millford Minja
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:55:00 - [26] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: Those don't really count, in my opinion, since they don't change the meta of the game. People were fine with the old recticles, just more people wanted them different. Having 1 LS for the adv Cal Scout was fine, it's just more people didn't want to change their gameplay with an adv cal scout cause they didn't want to use a proto. The changes they've been making have been changing the meta of the game drastically. My real question is 'Do they play their own game and do they see the effects of their changes if they do, in fact, play their own game'? Look at the Bolt pistol. It can three shot, or four shot, ANYTHING on the board right now. Sure, they reduced the RoF, but it still does a metric ton of damage per shot, even without a damage mod or prof. MLT gear is more on the terms of ADV/Proto gear for their price. Have they listened to the people that want MLT gear nerfed more? It took them what, 5 patches to put the Battle Academy back to what it was. Well, at least almost back to what it was. Lets look at the meta as it is now: Greater suit variety than ever before. Greater weapon variety than ever before. Such a crappy meta Rattati and Logibro have put together... Before, there were no Logistics specialization. That was a greater variety. Before, assault suits and commandos didn't have a 'You use this weapon because you get the bonus' Right now, there is a right way and a wrong way to fit every single suit. If you can't see that, you're an idiot. Sorry, but you are.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3985	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:57:00 - [27] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: Look at the Bolt pistol. It can three shot, or four shot, ANYTHING on the board right now. Sure, they reduced the RoF, but it still does a metric ton of damage per shot, even without a damage mod or prof. Yes, look at the Bolt Pistol. Where CCP Rattati almost immediately deployed tweaks to bring it back in line after it turned out to be more powerful than intended. And of course, that's even prior to running a sidearm event where valuable balance data on sidearms can be collected for use in further tweaks. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4906	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:57:00 - [28] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: The reality on the ADS, was that it was an incredible outlier statistically. It's still overpowered, depending how you measure it, it's just... less OP now than it was before. Plenty of ADS players have stated otherwise, but they're also heavily biased, and the reality is, they're just closer to the level of play others experience now. Man lives in mud, learns to enjoy the mud, demands everyone else lives in the mud with him. Typical.
Draxus Prime BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 3848	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:58:00 - [29] - Quote I've played with Rattati, Cmdrwang, Frame, Foxfour, Archduke, Logibro and Saberwing "War determines not who is right, but who is left." Closed Beta Vet Scout before it was cool
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:59:00 - [30] - Quote Draxus Prime wrote: I've played with Rattati, Cmdrwang, Frame, Foxfour, Archduke, Logibro and Saberwing You're missing the very essence of my question.

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4624	Posted - 2014.10.06 22:07:00 - [31] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: Those don't really count, in my opinion, since they don't change the meta of the game. People were fine with the old recticles, just more people wanted them different. Having 1 LS for the adv Cal Scout was fine, it's just more people didn't want to change their gameplay with an adv cal scout cause they didn't want to use a proto. The changes they've been making have been changing the meta of the game drastically. My real question is 'Do they play their own game and do they see the effects of their changes if they do, in fact, play their own game'? Look at the Bolt pistol. It can three shot, or four shot, ANYTHING on the board right now. Sure, they reduced the RoF, but it still does a metric ton of damage per shot, even without a damage mod or prof. MLT gear is more on the terms of ADV/Proto gear for their price. Have they listened to the people that want MLT gear nerfed more? It took them what, 5 patches to put the Battle Academy back to what it was. Well, at least almost back to what it was. Lets look at the meta as it is now: Greater suit variety than ever before. Greater weapon variety than ever before. Such a crappy meta Rattati and Logibro have put together... Before, there were no Logistics specialization. That was a greater variety. Before, assault suits and commandos didn't have a 'You use this weapon because you get the bonus' Right now, there is a right way and a wrong way to fit every single suit. If you can't see that, you're an idiot. Sorry, but you are. Look, you are just a whiny brat not getting his way. Lots of players have lots of different fits and play styles. If you can't see that, YOU are the idiot. If you have legit complaints, perhaps stating them with a little more logically and rationally will be more productive than this sense of entitlement you seem to have. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 22:09:00 - [32] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: Look at the Bolt pistol. It can three shot, or four shot, ANYTHING on the board right now. Sure, they reduced the RoF, but it still does a metric ton of damage per shot, even without a damage mod or prof. Yes, look at the Bolt Pistol. Where CCP Rattati almost immediately deployed tweaks to bring it back in line after it turned out to be more powerful than intended. And of course, that's even prior to running a sidearm event where valuable balance data on sidearms can be collected for use in further tweaks. I they did internal testing, they wouldn't have had to have nerfed the bolt pistiol AFTER THE PATCH. They didn't need to run a sidearm challenge to collect data on sidearms to know that the bolt pistol is ridiculously over powered. The tweaks he did to the bolt pistol are to the RoF, not the raw, base damage the gun does. Oh, wow, I can only shoot ever other second... I'm still going to two shot your tanked proto sentinel.
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.10.06 22:13:00 - [33] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Greater suit variety than ever before. Greater weapon variety than ever before. Such a crappy meta Rattati and Logibro have put together... I wish this were true.
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 22:14:00 - [34] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: Those don't really count, in my opinion, since they don't change the meta of the game. People were fine with the old recticles, just more people wanted them different. Having 1 LS for the adv Cal Scout was fine, it's just more people didn't want to change their gameplay with an adv cal scout cause they didn't want to use a proto. The changes they've been making have been changing the meta of the game drastically. My real question is 'Do they play their own game and do they see the effects of their changes if they do, in fact, play their own game'? Look at the Bolt pistol. It can three shot, or four shot, ANYTHING on the board right now. Sure, they reduced the RoF, but it still does a metric ton of damage per shot, even without a damage mod or prof. MLT gear is more on the terms of ADV/Proto gear for their price. Have they listened to the people that want MLT gear nerfed more? It took them what, 5 patches to put the Battle Academy back to what it was. Well, at least almost back to what it was. Lets look at the meta as it is now: Greater suit variety than ever before. Greater weapon variety than ever before. Such a crappy meta Rattati and Logibro have put together... Before, there were no Logistics specialization. That was a greater variety. Before, assault suits and commandos didn't have a 'You use this weapon because you get the bonus' Right now, there is a right way and a wrong way to fit every single suit. If you can't see that, you're an idiot. Sorry, but you are. Look, you are just a whiny brat not getting his way. Lots of players have lots of different fits and play styles. If you can't see that, YOU are the idiot. If you have legit complaints, perhaps stating them with a little more logically and rationally will be more productive than this sense of entitlement you seem to have. Lol, if you can't see that there is a right and wrong way to fit a suit, you're an idiot. Making suits have specializations like they did destroyed fitting freedom. I can see peopel running an Amarr Assault with a combat rifle. I want to yell at them for not suing a Minmatar Commando or a Minmatar Assault, so they can get the bonuses to that weapon. I love that when someone brings up a topic like this, everyone automatically assumes they are crying and bitching and whining because their particular playstyle is ruined. I use an Amarr Assault, that has been relatively untouched in patches, and won't complain if it is nerfed because I can adapt to a change. I'm not acting entitled and I believe I am being very logical about this. We are getting off topic, though. I want to know if the devs play the game and can see how some of the nerfs they made are completely unreasonable and the excuses they use are utterly ridiculous.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3988	Posted - 2014.10.06 22:18:00 - [35] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: I they did internal testing, they wouldn't have had to have nerfed the bolt pistiol AFTER THE PATCH. Like... nothing internally tested ever compares to how it performs on live servers. From way back in my earlier MMO days back in 2007 this was apparent. You could even see as a build that was totally playable on the WoW test server explode fantastically the moment it was applied to the live servers. Also, players tend to be more varied in skill and playstyle than the devs, and will often be more likely to discover "unintended" abilities that the devs would not think to test. Internal testing is good, and CCP could definitely afford to do a lot more of it. But it's really not a conclusive answer. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 22:23:00 - [36] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: I they did internal testing, they wouldn't have had to have nerfed the bolt pistiol AFTER THE PATCH. Like... nothing internally tested ever compares to how it performs on live servers. From way back in my earlier MMO days back in 2007 this was apparent. You could even see as a build that was totally playable on the WoW test server explode fantastically the moment it was applied to the live servers. Also, players tend to be more varied in skill and playstyle than the devs, and will often be more likely to discover "unintended" abilities that the devs would not think to test. Internal testing is good, and CCP could definitely afford to do a lot more of it. But it's really not a conclusive answer. Guess what? After internal testing, MMOs release a test server. Most console games had test servers. I know Killzone had one for this FPS. I know ME3 had one for their Shooter Multiplayer. Apparently MAG had a test server... What is CCPs excuse? Sure, they can't catch all the bugs in internal testing. But they can catch the 'holy **** that gun is ridiculous bonkers, we need to nerf that before the patch goes live'
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3989	Posted - 2014.10.06 22:59:00 - [37] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: Most console games had test servers. I'd certainly love some links and proof on this. From my personal understanding, it's near impossible to deploy test code to PlayStations via Sony's QA requirements. As far as I'm aware, that's why DUST doesn't have a test server. Would love to know if I'm wrong. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 23:04:00 - [38] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: Most console games had test servers. I'd certainly love some links and proof on this. From my personal understanding, it's near impossible to deploy test code to PlayStations via Sony's QA requirements. As far as I'm aware, that's why DUST doesn't have a test server. Would love to know if I'm wrong. They are called beta servers. The only time I said 'test server' was for MAG. I never played MAG, but I'm certain someone else earler in the post said they had a test server. Ask them. I'm sorry, I did say test server twice. I meant to say beta server the first time.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3989	Posted - 2014.10.06 23:06:00 - [39] - Quote If you're referring to beta before game release, we had that. For a long time. But like, if these games had a whole second copy of the game you could test out updates before they went to the main game, that I don't think has ever been possible on PS3. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 23:21:00 - [40] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: If you're referring to beta before game release, we had that. For a long time. But like, if these games had a whole second copy of the game you could test out updates before they went to the main game, that I don't think has ever been possible on PS3. And guess what? The beta was the best the game ever was. They only took it out of beta because of Sony and their timeline for the game. They wouldn't need a second copy. Just a second server you can select when logging in. I'm not a game programer or anything, but it can't be any more difficult than that.

Draxus Prime BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 3849	Posted - 2014.10.06 23:30:00 - [41] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: Draxus Prime wrote: I've played with Rattati, Cmdrwang, Frame, Foxfour, Archduke, Logibro and Saberwing You're missing the very essence of my question. just read the title "War determines not who is right, but who is left." Closed Beta Vet Scout before it was cool
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 23:32:00 - [42] - Quote Draxus Prime wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: Draxus Prime wrote: I've played with Rattati, Cmdrwang, Frame, Foxfour, Archduke, Logibro and Saberwing You're missing the very essence of my question. just read the title Apparently you're not good at context clues.
Orphan Shadow Waiting For Deployment 184	Posted - 2014.10.06 23:40:00 - [43] - Quote Rami, you use proper spelling and grammar, and your actual concern is fair discussion, so you seem an intelligent dude. Your OP lacks tact or any evidence of your claims. DEVs don't need to go any further than the title of your post to safely decide to move onto something else. This thread is just one of hundreds, if not thousands, just like it. Yet you legitimately feel a DEV should respond to you. If you want a blue tag, write something with more substance, more content, and you know, do a little investigation first. Come up with a better title. You want effort from CCP, put a little into your post. And apologies to you from me, for coming off too strongly previously. +1 for not overreacting.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 374	Posted - 2014.10.06 23:48:00 - [44] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: ab nerf just means pilot has to change his assault pattern, we now either choose to wait it out for ab to come back online or decide to risk it while it's cooling down. ab cd was op from the beginning. On top of taking away active reps in 1.7 and the armor and shield hardener nerf and the armor rep nerf. I'm sorry, but when I did fly ADS, I stopped when the AB nerf hit, not to mention the HUUUUUUGE nerf to rate of fire for Pythons. Are you saying that the python rate of fire wasn't a bit much? Seriously? I swarm, and I'm telling you now that you swarm a number of ways, and non of that works on the ADS of old?! You can swarm with a scout suit, but what you gain in speed to chase tanks you lose in armor as the ADS one shots you into oblivion?! You can swarm in an assault or commando, but you're too slow for evrything?! You can take a licking from the tank, but the ADS of old would fire so fast that there was no running and no survival?! You'd usually die before you locked on?! Have you ever ram proto swarms, with proto AV nades, in a proto suit, and with all proto mods? Any true AVer would slap you for stupidity. It's financial suicide! Most ADS of old would go 30+/0! Who do you think they were killing? So the whole "go proto" argument is lacking in the experiment department. You obviously have never ran AV. A cheap suit with an abundance of high slots, complex dmg mods, and a proto swarm still will break 30,000 isk. Die 10 times, and that match was a waste?! You should study the weaponry built to take you out to better understand it's strengths, limits, and abilities. That will teach you what you can and can't do, and if a nerf or buff is needed. I run tanks on an alt, and my knowledge of swarming helps me know where not to be when they start flying. "Anybody order chaos?"
Draxus Prime BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 3850	Posted - 2014.10.06 23:50:00 - [45] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: Draxus Prime wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: Draxus Prime wrote: I've played with Rattati, Cmdrwang, Frame, Foxfour, Archduke, Logibro and Saberwing You're missing the very essence of my question. just read the title Apparently you're not good at context clues. what were we talking about? :p "War determines not who is right, but who is left." Closed Beta Vet Scout before it was cool
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.06 23:57:00 - [46] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: ab nerf just means pilot has to change his assault pattern, we now either choose to wait it out for ab to come back online or decide to risk it while it's cooling down. ab cd was op from the beginning. On top of taking away active reps in 1.7 and the armor and shield hardener nerf and the armor rep nerf. I'm sorry, but when I did fly ADS, I stopped when the AB nerf hit, not to mention the HUUUUUUGE nerf to rate of fire for Pythons. Are you saying that the python rate of fire wasn't a bit much? Seriously? I swarm, and I'm telling you now that you swarm a number of ways, and non of that works on the ADS of old?! You can swarm with a scout suit, but what you gain in speed to chase tanks you lose in armor as the ADS one shots you into oblivion?! You can swarm in an assault or commando, but you're too slow for evrything?! You can take a licking from the tank, but the ADS of old would fire so fast that there was no running and no survival?! You'd usually die before you locked on?! Have you ever ran proto swarms, with proto AV nades, in a proto suit, and with all proto mods? Any true AVer would slap you for stupidity. It's financial suicide! Most ADS of old would go 30+/0! Who do you think they were killing? So the whole "go proto" argument is lacking in the experiment department. You obviously have never ran AV. A cheap suit with an abundance of high slots, complex dmg mods, and a proto swarm still will break 30,000 isk. Die 10 times, and that match was a waste?! You should study the weaponry built to take you out to better understand it's strengths, limits, and abilities. That will teach you what you can and can't do, and if a nerf or buff is needed. I run tanks on an alt, and my knowledge of swarming helps me know where not to be when they start flying. TL:DR cry cry wah. Back in the day, I'd have a tanked Min Commando and I would destroy tanks. I wouldn't fit a scout, I wouldn't fit an assault. Why? Because those are useless fittings for the swarm. I do run a Proto suit with all proto everything except grenades because you can't have them on the commando. I contantly kill vehicles and I've killed plenty of pythons before the nerf. That Cal Sentinel with 5 damage mods is nothing compared to a Min Commando at 5 with 2 complex damage mods. You're a fool to run AV with swarms on anything but a min commando if you want to be good. I've been playing since closed beta, guy. I know how the game works. Before the nerf, ADS were easily dealt with. Now they are almost void on the battlefield because of the nerf. Sounds like you need to run some AV more.
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.07 00:02:00 - [47] - Quote Orphan Shadow wrote: Rami, you use proper spelling and grammar, and your actual concern is fair discussion, so you seem an intelligent dude. Your OP lacks tact or any evidence of your claims. DEVs don't need to go any further than the title of your post to safely decide to move onto something else. This thread is just one of hundreds, if not thousands, just like it. Yet you legitimately feel a DEV should respond to you. If you want a blue tag, write something with more substance, more content, and you know, do a little investigation first. Come up with a better title. You want effort from CCP, put a little into your post. And apologies to you from me, for coming off too strongly previously. +1 for not overreacting. Wow, some actual constructive comments. Thank you. Unfortunately I'm unable to cite my own personal experiences with the game, since I used my own experiences as examples. I'm pleased to see that the CPM that responded has provided some decent dialog, at least. Honestly, once Borderlands the Pre Sequel comes out and Shadow of Mordor comes to PS3, I won't be playing this game anymore. I just made this thread to hopefully start some sort of meaningful questioning inthe community for how CCP takes care of buffing/nerfing. It really seems like they just look at raw numbers and then fix the firestorm of their tweaking later. Some of the things they change in response to a patch are things that could have been easily caught and fixed in internal testing. They need better QA with players instead of just saying 'hey, surprise! Here's this stuff that you weren't expecting'.
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1263	Posted - 2014.10.07 00:26:00 - [48] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: ab nerf just means pilot has to change his assault pattern, we now either choose to wait it out for ab to come back online or decide to risk it while it's cooling down. ab cd was op from the beginning. On top of taking away active reps in 1.7 and the armor and shield hardener nerf and the armor rep nerf. I'm sorry, but when I did fly ADS, I stopped when the AB nerf hit, not to mention the HUUUUUUGE nerf to rate of fire for Pythons. why did you need a high ROF for a missile that 1-3 shots ppl? AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.07 00:32:00 - [49] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: ab nerf just means pilot has to change his assault pattern, we now either choose to wait it out for ab to come back online or decide to risk it while it's cooling down. ab cd was op from the beginning. On top of taking away active reps in 1.7 and the armor and shield hardener nerf and the armor rep nerf. I'm sorry, but when I did fly ADS, I stopped when the AB nerf hit, not to mention the HUUUUUUGE nerf to rate of fire for Pythons. why did you need a high ROF for a missile that 1-3 shots ppl? are you talking about the AB nerf a year ago or the one now? I don't know about you, but I used my Python for AV
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1207	Posted - 2014.10.07 00:33:00 - [50] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: The reality on the ADS, was that it was an incredible outlier statistically. It's still overpowered, depending how you measure it, it's just... less OP now than it was before. Plenty of ADS players have stated otherwise, but they're also heavily biased, and the reality is, they're just closer to the level of play others experience now. I know we aren't supposed to swear, but that statement is bullshit. Do you actually listen to the community? I've listened to non pilots that say that the ADS nerf was a bit too much. ADS could always be handled with decent AV. Always. I sometimes fly dropships and this nerf was kind of ridiculous. Now they are wanting to change the whole ADS meta by changing the Python and Incubus bonuses? Where do they get off on that? I'd have to ask you "Do you even Forum"? The ADS could not be killed by AV in any practical manner. There was as close to a consensus on that as any issue ever raised. The data supported that consensus. The changes in AV and ADS don't seem to have greatly altered things from my perspective. If I didn't read the forums I wouldn't know anything changed. The QQ frim pilots on the other hand is impressive. Because, that's why.

Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.07 00:35:00 - [51] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: The reality on the ADS, was that it was an incredible outlier statistically. It's still overpowered, depending how you measure it, it's just... less OP now than it was before. Plenty of ADS players have stated otherwise, but they're also heavily biased, and the reality is, they're just closer to the level of play others experience now. I know we aren't supposed to swear, but that statement is bullshit. Do you actually listen to the community? I've listened to non pilots that say that the ADS nerf was a bit too much. ADS could always be handled with decent AV. Always. I sometimes fly dropships and this nerf was kind of ridiculous. Now they are wanting to change the whole ADS meta by changing the Python and Incubus bonuses? Where do they get off on that? I'd have to ask you "Do you even Forum"? The ADS could not be killed by AV in any practical manner. There was as close to a consensus on that as any issue ever raised. The data supported that consensus. The changes in AV and ADS don't seem to have greatly altered things from my perspective. If I didn't read the forums I wouldn't know anything changed. The QQ frim pilots on the other hand is impressive. I've killed plenty of ADS with my swarm launcher. And it's even easier thanks to the AB nerf that have crippled them.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1207	Posted - 2014.10.07 00:37:00 - [52] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: Orphan Shadow wrote: Rami, you use proper spelling and grammar, and your actual concern is fair discussion, so you seem an intelligent dude. Your OP lacks tact or any evidence of your claims. DEVs don't need to go any further than the title of your post to safely decide to move onto something else. This thread is just one of hundreds, if not thousands, just like it. Yet you legitimately feel a DEV should respond to you. If you want a blue tag, write something with more substance, more content, and you know, do a little investigation first. Come up with a better title. You want effort from CCP, put a little into your post. And apologies to you from me, for coming off too strongly previously. +1 for not overreacting. Wow, some actual constructive comments. Thank you. Unfortunately I'm unable to cite my own personal experiences with the game, since I used my own experiences as examples. I'm pleased to see that the CPM that responded has provided some decent dialog, at least. Honestly, once Borderlands the Pre Sequel comes out and Shadow of Mordor comes to PS3, I won't be playing this game anymore. I just made this thread to hopefully start some sort of meaningful questioning inthe community for how CCP takes care of buffing/nerfing. It really seems like they just look at raw numbers and then fix the firestorm of their tweaking later. Some of the things they change in response to a patch are things that could have been easily caught and fixed in internal testing. They need better QA with players instead of just saying 'hey, surprise! Here's this stuff that you weren't expecting'. Do you go to forums and ideas? Did you post your thoughts on the dozens of pages and interactions with Rattati there before the changes? I don't remember seeing you there and it seems a little spoiled to complain about not having a say when you were given plenty of opportunity to have a say but didn't take it. Because, that's why.
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1263	Posted - 2014.10.07 00:42:00 - [53] - Quote this build is still easier than when large rail range wasn't yet nerfed a few months back.. sorry for those pilots who just hit AB and flew straight to cieling.. maybe they consider a different tactic now.. there's other ways to take evasive from AV than just face rolling the DS3. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.07 00:46:00 - [54] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: Orphan Shadow wrote: Rami, you use proper spelling and grammar, and your actual concern is fair discussion, so you seem an intelligent dude. Your OP lacks tact or any evidence of your claims. DEVs don't need to go any further than the title of your post to safely decide to move onto something else. This thread is just one of hundreds, if not thousands, just like it. Yet you legitimately feel a DEV should respond to you. If you want a blue tag, write something with more substance, more content, and you know, do a little investigation first. Come up with a better title. You want effort from CCP, put a little into your post. And apologies to you from me, for coming off too strongly previously. +1 for not overreacting. Wow, some actual constructive comments. Thank you. Unfortunately I'm unable to cite my own personal experiences with the game, since I used my own experiences as examples. I'm pleased to see that the CPM that responded has provided some decent dialog, at least. Honestly, once Borderlands the Pre Sequel comes out and Shadow of Mordor comes to PS3, I won't be playing this game anymore. I just made this thread to hopefully start some sort of meaningful questioning inthe community for how CCP takes care of buffing/nerfing. It really seems like they just look at raw numbers and then fix the firestorm of their tweaking later. Some of the things they change in response to a patch are things that could have been easily caught and fixed in internal testing. They need better QA with players instead of just saying 'hey, surprise! Here's this stuff that you weren't expecting'. Do you go to forums and ideas? Did you post your thoughts on the dozens of pages and interactions with Rattati there before the changes? I don't remember seeing you there and it seems a little spoiled to complain about not having a say when you were given plenty of opportunity to have a say but didn't take it. YOu are assuming I want to impliment some sort of change to the game. You are completely missing my initial question: Do the devs play their game and do they see the effects of said changes themselves? Any same developer would see most of the ganges they have made and go 'oh man, maybe that was a bad idea to do that'. I've never seen a develompent community pretty much ignore their players as bad as CCP has. They didnt need to nerf ADS. At least not for the reasons ratatatata gave. I won't be playing this game when the new Borderlands comes out, so I don't really care if they change things back. I just want to know if they play their own game and are comfortable with the changes despite seeing it first hand. That is what I want to know.
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.07 00:49:00 - [55] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: this build is still easier than when large rail range wasn't yet nerfed a few months back.. sorry for those pilots who just hit AB and flew straight to cieling.. maybe they consider a different tactic now.. there's other ways to take evasive from AV than just face rolling the DS3. Flying a dropship back then was way easier than now, in my opinion. AV wasn't ridiculously OP or too weak. In face, back in the beta, that was the best AV and vehichles have been balanced, in my opinion. Either way, I don't drive vehicles on this character and the character that does, doesn't anymore because they are killed too easily. When I came back, I was floored when a forge gun hit me even at the flight ceiling. I was overly surprised when swarms caught up to me and even almost killed me.
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1263	Posted - 2014.10.07 00:58:00 - [56] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: this build is still easier than when large rail range wasn't yet nerfed a few months back.. sorry for those pilots who just hit AB and flew straight to cieling.. maybe they consider a different tactic now.. there's other ways to take evasive from AV than just face rolling the DS3. Flying a dropship back then was way easier than now, in my opinion. AV wasn't ridiculously OP or too weak. In face, back in the beta, that was the best AV and vehichles have been balanced, in my opinion. Either way, I don't drive vehicles on this character and the character that does, doesn't anymore because they are killed too easily. When I came back, I was floored when a forge gun hit me even at the flight ceiling. I was overly surprised when swarms caught up to me and even almost killed me. because they have basically nerfed the high flying pilot (which was about 90% of the pilot community). you have to fly contour and have good prediction of where/when AV will come from. yea you will still be shot down it happens. but most AV expects you to AB to flight cieling and they predict your motion, when you do the opposite and dive low instead of ascend to evade it throws them off. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.10.07 01:03:00 - [57] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: this build is still easier than when large rail range wasn't yet nerfed a few months back.. sorry for those pilots who just hit AB and flew straight to cieling.. maybe they consider a different tactic now.. there's other ways to take evasive from AV than just face rolling the DS3. Flying a dropship back then was way easier than now, in my opinion. AV wasn't ridiculously OP or too weak. In face, back in the beta, that was the best AV and vehichles have been balanced, in my opinion. Either way, I don't drive vehicles on this character and the character that does, doesn't anymore because they are killed too easily. When I came back, I was floored when a forge gun hit me even at the flight ceiling. I was overly surprised when swarms caught up to me and even almost killed me. because they have basically nerfed the high flying pilot (which was about 90% of the pilot community). you have to fly contour and have good prediction of where/when AV will come from. yea you will still be shot down it happens. but most AV expects you to AB to flight cieling and they predict your motion, when you do the opposite and dive low instead of ascend to evade it throws them off. When you fly low, you have the chance of getting pushed into buildings. Flying high prevents that and caused you to keep your 800k ISK dropship. They didn't like it becaus epeople cried about the tactic and they nerfed it to force people to stop doing it. The game has gone a far way away from the freedom they had initially intended. It's really sad. This game had the potential to beat Battlefield, if only the devs actually listened to the community instead of makign changes they thought would be good for the game.
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1264	Posted - 2014.10.07 01:10:00 - [58] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: this build is still easier than when large rail range wasn't yet nerfed a few months back.. sorry for those pilots who just hit AB and flew straight to cieling.. maybe they consider a different tactic now.. there's other ways to take evasive from AV than just face rolling the DS3. Flying a dropship back then was way easier than now, in my opinion. AV wasn't ridiculously OP or too weak. In face, back in the beta, that was the best AV and vehichles have been balanced, in my opinion. Either way, I don't drive vehicles on this character and the character that does, doesn't anymore because they are killed too easily. When I came back, I was floored when a forge gun hit me even at the flight ceiling. I was overly surprised when swarms caught up to me and even almost killed me. because they have basically nerfed the high flying pilot (which was about 90% of the pilot community). you have to fly contour and have good prediction of where/when AV will come from. yea you will still be shot down it happens. but most AV expects you to AB to flight cieling and they predict your motion, when you do the opposite and dive low instead of ascend to evade it throws them off. When you fly low, you have the chance of getting pushed into buildings. Flying high prevents that and caused you to keep your 800k ISK dropship. They didn't like it becaus epeople cried about the tactic and they nerfed it to force people to stop doing it. The game has gone a far way away from the freedom they had initially intended. It's really sad. This game had the potential to beat Battlefield, if only the devs actually listened to the community instead of makign changes they thought would be good for the game. the high flying evade was a total face roll.. the collision you speak about can happen but if you fly a repping gal then you usually shrug off collisions but thats speaking in absolute to say you will collide every time you do a low evade. yea it's possible but not garunteed to happen after it becomes routine manuver. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Orphan Shadow Waiting For Deployment 189	Posted - 2014.10.07 01:31:00 - [59] - Quote Regarding ADS... The AB cool down adjustment was badly needed. That has not nerfed DS viability whatsoever, just the amount of time you can hover in the hot zone splatting dudes with your XT-1. Now you have to take a little time out for being naughty. The swarm acceleration buff means you have to take lol swarms more seriously now. If there is more than one swarmer, you either find something else to do, or you DIAF. At least you forced 2 enemy infantry to gimp themselves with AV in a gun fight. Regarding tank bustin', I agree DS versus Tank is weak sauce now. But... we don't fly in constant fear of 80GJ Railguns anymore either. There is a compromise that was reached here. Tanks don't wreck you with no recourse, neither do we smash them to bits without a return shot fired from directly above in less time than it takes to travel a quarter mile. If we want ADS to be AV, which seems ideal, Rattati should strap a forge gun to the weapon mount, not small Railguns and Missile Launchers. Edit: Or strap an Anti-infantry swarm launcher to ADS that locks on infantry and is as fire and forget as AV swarms. Lol!
Forlorn Destrier Havok Dynasty 2772	Posted - 2014.10.07 01:43:00 - [60] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: So, in my long career of gaming, almost every game I've played, the Devs actually played their own game. They even let the players beta test their patches before coming out. I know that Sony won't let CCP let us beta test patches, or maybe that's a CCP policy. I don't know and I don't care. The point of this thread is to ask the Devs, specifically, if they even play their own game before they release a patch that is, in their eyes, good and balancing. So, I am heavily invested in this game and am always disappointed when you come out with a patch that completely ruin the meta and gameplay of the game. I don't know why you thought it was a good idea to nerf the dropships the way you did. I don't know why you took away the precision bonus from Caldari Scouts and gave it to the Galente and the Amarr. That is, as far as I can tell from the lore, that is completely contrary to what those races are - statwise, at least. So, Devs, do you actually play your own game while coming up with these 'balances' or do you just look at raw numbers and say 'oh, well, that number clearly shouldn't be like that, so we'll change it' or 'Well, we don't like how people are using that feature, so we'll nerf the crap out of it' or do you just listen and actually change things when enough people cry about something? They all do, but they don't play on the Dev accounts. They all have alts and are not allowed to tell you who the alts are. I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning

Skippy Longstocking Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 73	Posted - 2014.10.07 01:45:00 - [61] - Quote Yes. The answer to your question is: "Yes". Feel better now? Good. /thread
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4883	Posted - 2014.10.07 02:19:00 - [62] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Additionally to CCP Rattati, who was playing the game long before he was in charge of fixing the game, CCP Logibro was a player of the game before he was hired by CCP. The game is balanced both on statistics and player feedback, with input from the CPM as well. Unfortunately, it is impossible to run a test server for a PS3 game. We'd all love to have one, but it's just outside the scope of practicality. Again, it doesn't look like they play their own game. Rattati called Dropships a 'Force Multiplier'. That's BS. Tanks are a force multiplier. Any AV on the board now makes Dropships near useless, especially after their nerf. I would like a DEV to respond to this question instead of random players that just speculate. I think the game is in the best shape it's been from a balance perspective. There is a lot to balance in Dust. I think the job they are doing now with a much smaller team is amazing. Give them a break. CCP.... P.S., I think this is the attitude that gets much less hostile with respecs of some degree given when these hot fixes drop. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
The Master Race Immortal Guides 85	Posted - 2014.10.07 02:48:00 - [63] - Quote I am sure they do, but not like we play an on a far more balanced playing field to see and test out there work. This is the case in most of the games I play they have lives and sadly have to do stuff with the fam and all real life jaz we have manage to avoid. The forums actually play a huge role in development in my experience, so everyone that writes threads should really think about what they are jotting down because if the devs pick up a bad idea and run with it because it could kill a game. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3997	Posted - 2014.10.07 02:49:00 - [64] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: They only took it out of beta because of Sony and their timeline for the game. This is also baseless speculation. Though I think the beta was handled poorly, as many of the issues we had with the game should've been resolved long prior to release. But it had nothing to do with Sony. And yes, the devs working on balance changes play the game. Just because they disagree with you doesn't mean they don't play. ;) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 245	Posted - 2014.10.07 03:06:00 - [65] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: Atiim wrote: Why is it that every "Do DEVs even DUST?" thread is made by butthurt FoTM Scrubs and Pilots? I play an Amarr Assault with Scrambler Rifle and Laser Rifle. I'm so far away from FoTM that it isn't even funny. I have the isk to run my protos even if I die to a bolt pistol, lol. Except Amarr assault with scrambler and autofire controller was super FOTM op cheating. What kind of controller WERE you using I wonder...
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 104	Posted - 2014.10.07 09:41:00 - [66] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: Atiim wrote: Why is it that every "Do DEVs even DUST?" thread is made by butthurt FoTM Scrubs and Pilots? I play an Amarr Assault with Scrambler Rifle and Laser Rifle. I'm so far away from FoTM that it isn't even funny. I have the isk to run my protos even if I die to a bolt pistol, lol. Except Amarr assault with scrambler and autofire controller was super FOTM op cheating. What kind of controller WERE you using I wonder... I'm not so insecure with my abilities that I had to use a turbo controller. I don't cheat in FPS to get my kills. I used a regular controller. Back when that was the norm, I used to be a slayer logi with either a creodon breach assault rifle or a six kin assault combat rifle. Thanks for trying to call me out.
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 104	Posted - 2014.10.07 09:45:00 - [67] - Quote Skippy Longstocking wrote: Yes. The answer to your question is: "Yes". Feel better now? Good. /thread No, that isn't an adaquate answer. You don't seem to understand my question still. THe people that still play dust are incredibly hardheaded with their opinions and put too much faith in CCP. A company known for screwing over players and not caring.
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 104	Posted - 2014.10.07 09:50:00 - [68] - Quote The Master Race wrote: I am sure they do, but not like we play an on a far more balanced playing field to see and test out there work. This is the case in most of the games I play they have lives and sadly have to do stuff with the fam and all real life jaz we have manage to avoid. The forums actually play a huge role in development in my experience, so everyone that writes threads should really think about what they are jotting down because if the devs pick up a bad idea and run with it because it could kill a game. Again, that isn't what I'm getting at. CCP Logibros great contribution to the game was dropsuit specialization. It destroyed fitting freedom because it made it so suits had an absolutely right way to fit it and an absolutely wrong way to fit them (ie anything that didn't play to that suits bonuses). CCP ratatatas great controbution to the game, so far, is to force all dropship pilots to be on the same playing level instead of rewarding those that learn how to pilot well to not lose their 800k ISK dropship while still being a vital part of the battlefield. For the way they make their patches and balances, it looks like they don't even play their own game to see that 'oh, maybe changing it that way was a bad idea for the progression of the game'. I really believe that making suits have the bonuses they do have was bad for the game in terms of fitting freedom. But hey, CCP doesn't listen to their players about meta like that.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3431	Posted - 2014.10.07 09:57:00 - [69] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: No, that isn't an adaquate answer. In your opinion You don't seem to understand my question still. Then state your thesis more clearly. THe people that still play dust are incredibly hardheaded with their opinions and put too much faith in CCP. After perusing the forums I have found that cynicism outnumbers examples of faith in excess of 10-1. A company known for screwing over players and not caring. Making mistakes while underestimating the playerbase whom CCP allows to screw each other over is a more accurate assessment. I had to correct this so that it adheres to actual fact, not anecdote. I find this seeming expectation that CCP owes you something to be interesting. The game is free. You show approval of the game by buying aurum. You show disapproval by skipping aurum. I have played alongside archduke and have shot down devs in play. Yes, they play the game. No they are not obligated to agree with you or accept your words as gospel. This thread is pointless, ranty and contributes nothing to improving the game, therefore it is unlikely to gain dev attention longer than it takes to savor harvested tears.
Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 104	Posted - 2014.10.07 09:58:00 - [70] - Quote Orphan Shadow wrote: Regarding ADS... The AB cool down adjustment was badly needed. That has not nerfed DS viability whatsoever, just the amount of time you can hover in the hot zone splatting dudes with your XT-1. Now you have to take a little time out for being naughty. The swarm acceleration buff means you have to take lol swarms more seriously now. If there is more than one swarmer, you either find something else to do, or you DIAF. At least you forced 2 enemy infantry to gimp themselves with AV in a gun fight. Regarding tank bustin', I agree DS versus Tank is weak sauce now. But... we don't fly in constant fear of 80GJ Railguns anymore either. There is a compromise that was reached here. Tanks don't wreck you with no recourse, neither do we smash them to bits without a return shot fired from directly above in less time than it takes to travel a quarter mile. If we want ADS to be AV, which seems ideal, Rattati should strap a forge gun to the weapon mount, not small Railguns and Missile Launchers. Edit: Or strap an Anti-infantry swarm launcher to ADS that locks on infantry and is as fire and forget as AV swarms. Lol! Railguns on an incubus were amazing at dealing with structures and vehichles. They were so much better than missles and blasters. At least, when I flew a Prometheous, I had a missle and a railgun. More often than not, the railgun killed more vehichles while the missle was about equal with anti infantry and AV. That's only because I used the Accelerated missle and people had good aim. Even before the swarm nerf, I took them pretty seriously. I don't know about you or if you remember swarms before the nerf, but htey were pretty deadly. I had to rely of ground units to take them out so I could go back to blowing things up. And you kind of do have to live in fear of railguns still. Every railtank I've seen has damage mods that can two shot an armor tanked incubus. My problem with the ADS nerf is is it is forcing pilots to make a change in piloting instead of nudging them into saying 'oh, there are different ways to pilot than going straight up to get away from AV'. Any competent tanker I've talked to can get away from an ADS super easily and even retaliate to get them away. In a good squad, peopel would have brought out ground AV to deal with the dropship.

Rami Hamilo Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 104	Posted - 2014.10.07 10:04:00 - [71] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: No, that isn't an adaquate answer. In your opinion You don't seem to understand my question still. Then state your thesis more clearly. THe people that still play dust are incredibly hardheaded with their opinions and put too much faith in CCP. After perusing the forums I have found that cynicism outnumbers examples of faith in excess of 10-1. A company known for screwing over players and not caring. Making mistakes while underestimating the playerbase whom CCP allows to screw each other over is a more accurate assessment. I had to correct this so that it adheres to actual fact, not anecdote - Hey, thanks for being an *******. I find this seeming expectation that CCP owes you something to be interesting. - I don't believe I ever once said CCP owes me anything. I invested in this game and was let down. I'm disappoints in the route they're going, but I don't believe I am calling for some huge reform to the game. Not once have I said that they need to change this or that. I have just pointed out some things that they should have changed. The game is free. You show approval of the game by buying aurum. You show disapproval by skipping aurum. - That's great and all, but CCP doesn't care because of the contract with Sony. I have played alongside archduke and have shot down devs in play. - Man, that seems to be a theme. Yay, you play with devs. You're still missing my question. Congratulations. Yes, they play the game. - cool. It feels liek they don't given some of the recent 'balances'. No they are not obligated to agree with you or accept your words as gospel. - I never said they should agree with me or accept my words as gospel. Thanks for putting words in my mouth. This thread is pointless, ranty and contributes nothing to improving the game, therefore it is unlikely to gain dev attention longer than it takes to savor harvested tears. - In your own words, that is your opinion. Sorry, I had to reply to your quote in your own quote. Your feedback wasn't that great.
Skippy Longstocking Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 74	Posted - 2014.10.07 10:09:00 - [72] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: Skippy Longstocking wrote: Yes. The answer to your question is: "Yes". Feel better now? Good. /thread No, that isn't an adaquate answer. You don't seem to understand my question still. THe people that still play dust are incredibly hardheaded with their opinions and put too much faith in CCP. A company known for screwing over players and not caring. I'm sorry. Could you repeat the question?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3431	Posted - 2014.10.07 10:09:00 - [73] - Quote And your thread provides no useful or actionable feedback, merely accusatory ranting. If that is not your intent I would suggest formulating your words better. Your posts come off badly and along the vein of my critique. If you don't want people to respond to them in that manner you need to be more clear in defining the problem, presenting your evidence and offering ideas for solution. Your thread has failed to do any of the three. It comes off as an accusation of blind idiocy against rattati and logibro, and to a lesser extent Archduke. If this was not your intention, then your presentation needs major adjustment.
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3761	Posted - 2014.10.07 11:21:00 - [74] - Quote Logibro played it quite often.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1209	Posted - 2014.10.07 13:09:00 - [75] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: Orphan Shadow wrote: Rami, you use proper spelling and grammar, and your actual concern is fair discussion, so you seem an intelligent dude. Your OP lacks tact or any evidence of your claims. DEVs don't need to go any further than the title of your post to safely decide to move onto something else. This thread is just one of hundreds, if not thousands, just like it. Yet you legitimately feel a DEV should respond to you. If you want a blue tag, write something with more substance, more content, and you know, do a little investigation first. Come up with a better title. You want effort from CCP, put a little into your post. And apologies to you from me, for coming off too strongly previously. +1 for not overreacting. Wow, some actual constructive comments. Thank you. Unfortunately I'm unable to cite my own personal experiences with the game, since I used my own experiences as examples. I'm pleased to see that the CPM that responded has provided some decent dialog, at least. Honestly, once Borderlands the Pre Sequel comes out and Shadow of Mordor comes to PS3, I won't be playing this game anymore. I just made this thread to hopefully start some sort of meaningful questioning inthe community for how CCP takes care of buffing/nerfing. It really seems like they just look at raw numbers and then fix the firestorm of their tweaking later. Some of the things they change in response to a patch are things that could have been easily caught and fixed in internal testing. They need better QA with players instead of just saying 'hey, surprise! Here's this stuff that you weren't expecting'. Do you go to forums and ideas? Did you post your thoughts on the dozens of pages and interactions with Rattati there before the changes? I don't remember seeing you there and it seems a little spoiled to complain about not having a say when you were given plenty of opportunity to have a say but didn't take it. YOu are assuming I want to impliment some sort of change to the game. You are completely missing my initial question: Do the devs play their game and do they see the effects of said changes themselves? Any same developer would see most of the ganges they have made and go 'oh man, maybe that was a bad idea to do that'. I've never seen a develompent community pretty much ignore their players as bad as CCP has. They didnt need to nerf ADS. At least not for the reasons ratatatata gave. I won't be playing this game when the new Borderlands comes out, so I don't really care if they change things back. I just want to know if they play their own game and are comfortable with the changes despite seeing it first hand. That is what I want to know. So you are too lazy too look but expect a Dev to answer you. Your question was answered many times and just because you personally are butthurt about some changes doesn't mean that there was no community feedback. I play the game, I like the changes, so what makes your opinion right? Because, that's why.
RayRay James Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 469	Posted - 2014.10.07 13:16:00 - [76] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: Those don't really count, in my opinion, since they don't change the meta of the game. People were fine with the old recticles, just more people wanted them different. Having 1 LS for the adv Cal Scout was fine, it's just more people didn't want to change their gameplay with an adv cal scout cause they didn't want to use a proto. The changes they've been making have been changing the meta of the game drastically. My real question is 'Do they play their own game and do they see the effects of their changes if they do, in fact, play their own game'? Look at the Bolt pistol. It can three shot, or four shot, ANYTHING on the board right now. Sure, they reduced the RoF, but it still does a metric ton of damage per shot, even without a damage mod or prof. MLT gear is more on the terms of ADV/Proto gear for their price. Have they listened to the people that want MLT gear nerfed more? It took them what, 5 patches to put the Battle Academy back to what it was. Well, at least almost back to what it was. Lets look at the meta as it is now: Greater suit variety than ever before. Greater weapon variety than ever before. Such a crappy meta Rattati and Logibro have put together... Before, there were no Logistics specialization. That was a greater variety. Before, assault suits and commandos didn't have a 'You use this weapon because you get the bonus' Right now, there is a right way and a wrong way to fit every single suit. If you can't see that, you're an idiot. Sorry, but you are. There's bonuses to every ship in EVE that make it a "Right Way" and a "Wrong Way" to fly the ship. I've also seen some damn good pilots ignore the bonuses applied and do amazing things with ships. Thing's that the DEVs never considered and changed gameplay for MONTHS. The Myrmidon gets a 7.5% bonus to armor rep per level, yet people shield thank them (or used to) all the time. Just because the bonuses exist, doesn't mean you need to use them all the time. You're a Min/Max'er, and that's fine(ish), but it's not the only way to play the game.
maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 100	Posted - 2014.10.07 17:55:00 - [77] - Quote I dont think so, im always runnng into terrain gliches and other stupid bugs that should not exist at this point in the game. Honestly I dont think they care cause if they did I wouldn't be complaining about it. Any future attempts to make a fps will fail if they continue with this attitude. Ccp staff need to sit down smoke a huge spliff and figure **** out.
Mary Sedillo Thunder's Throne 322	Posted - 2014.10.07 20:49:00 - [78] - Quote Draxus Prime wrote: I've played with Rattati, Cmdrwang, Frame, Foxfour, Archduke, Logibro and Saberwing I remember a long time ago running a dev team into the mud with my super-blaster tank pre 1.7... was funny to see the changes after that to the large blaster.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 245	Posted - 2014.10.09 07:08:00 - [79] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Rami Hamilo wrote: Atiim wrote: Why is it that every "Do DEVs even DUST?" thread is made by butthurt FoTM Scrubs and Pilots? I play an Amarr Assault with Scrambler Rifle and Laser Rifle. I'm so far away from FoTM that it isn't even funny. I have the isk to run my protos even if I die to a bolt pistol, lol. Except Amarr assault with scrambler and autofire controller was super FOTM op cheating. What kind of controller WERE you using I wonder... I'm not so insecure with my abilities that I had to use a turbo controller. I don't cheat in FPS to get my kills. I used a regular controller. Back when that was the norm, I used to be a slayer logi with either a creodon breach assault rifle or a six kin assault combat rifle. Thanks for trying to call me out. Your statement did attempt to distance SCR from FoTM when it has been the FoTSM (several months) for autofire controller users. One of the few full on cheats. So really I was just checking and pointing out that SCR was nerfed for a reason (if not accurately nerfed <.<)
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17185	Posted - 2014.10.09 07:39:00 - [80] - Quote Rami Hamilo wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Additionally to CCP Rattati, who was playing the game long before he was in charge of fixing the game, CCP Logibro was a player of the game before he was hired by CCP. The game is balanced both on statistics and player feedback, with input from the CPM as well. Unfortunately, it is impossible to run a test server for a PS3 game. We'd all love to have one, but it's just outside the scope of practicality. Again, it doesn't look like they play their own game. Rattati called Dropships a 'Force Multiplier'. That's BS. Tanks are a force multiplier. Any AV on the board now makes Dropships near useless, especially after their nerf. I would like a DEV to respond to this question instead of random players that just speculate. LOL if you don't know the definition of force multipliers you need to see the worst kinds of stomps the ADS were offering such as instantly popping tanks. I had jokingly called the maxi-ADS a sanitizer (rare in pubs but you get one every so often) I haven't see the stomps anywhere ADS could have offered since closed beta's Sagaris. So being number 2 of most OP platforms of all times will go to the ADS of 1.8a-c CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Assault Rifles =// Unlocked

Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 225	Posted - 2014.10.09 09:19:00 - [81] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I haven't see the stomps anywhere ADS could have offered since closed beta's Sagaris. So being number 2 of most OP platforms of all times will go to the ADS of 1.8a-c Could have offered? Speculation that maybe the ADS could have offered stomps....is the reason you think they're so OP. Riiiiiiight. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18046	Posted - 2014.10.09 17:56:00 - [82] - Quote I have played both with and against CCP devs several times in the past. Surprisingly, they weren't all completely inept. The forums have ruined me.


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