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Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2270	Posted - 2014.09.29 23:10:00 - [1] - Quote have both increased in number and are now more deadly thanks CCP Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
Atiim 12605	Posted - 2014.09.29 23:21:00 - [2] - Quote Indeed. You should thank CCP for not listening to dedicated Snipers like Appia, Forks, and Snake when they said multiple times that a range nerf would nerf proactive snipers, while leaving redline ones intact. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1305	Posted - 2014.09.29 23:33:00 - [3] - Quote With Thales being an exception, I think snipers are decent right now.. Those camping redline are not a threat until you push toward enemy redline Sniper duels are a risky affair as headshots will end it fast Things I've noticed.. - Charge suffers Vs other snipers, unless you have the drop on them, they will shoot you before you Charge - Camping is a fools game, all it takes is a merc to grab a rifle and blow your brains out - I am seeing more inventive sniper locations than before (the good ol' King of the Hill) - Tactical is awesome for moving about taking out targets and moving on (though a skilled sniper camping with it is a pain in the ass) My fits - - MinMando - Ishukone/RS-90 CR - MinScout - C15 Tac/Nova Knives - CalAss - Charge/Bolt Pistol These suits were made for testing but I am quite happy with them. The Min Scout is really fun Innapropriate Irrelevence... Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2270	Posted - 2014.09.29 23:49:00 - [4] - Quote im still seeing amaar/gallente sentinals sitting 200-300m into the redline... and by seeing i mean feeling as they dont render without a sniper rifle of your own. ive had to fly dropships at them to get them to render for me since i have zero SP into sniper rifles and cant take out an a/gko with a basic sniper before it ganks me. their behavior has changed slightly as they will now move around inside the redline pushing closer or moving further back depending on what bases are capped, the thing thats the same however is that they wont leave the redline. this isnt of course refering to all snipers, just the dedicated redline snipers like wulfgarrd6 who hasnt left the redline in damn near 2 years Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
Yeeeuuuupppp Vengeance Unbound 620	Posted - 2014.09.29 23:58:00 - [5] - Quote Honestly, I hate the redicle so much, it frustrates the shite out of me. I used to be that scrub who would snipe when I died too much, I'm up against try hards or I simply don't feel like being in the action, admittedly. I actually turned into a dedicated sniper a few months ago. But it's just UN bearable. Potentially ohko by a charge headshot (earlier today my adv amarr sentinel got ohko'd by a charge. I had 450 shields, 907 armor, full hp). It's just not worth Ty ccp for bringing me out of the red line and making me give up on sniping almosT completely because that tiny dot is near impossible to fking aim with bad eye sight "Removed for hurting my feelings" - CCP PSN: GMANCASH Rage Proficiency V
Joel II X molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 3688	Posted - 2014.09.29 23:58:00 - [6] - Quote The redline snipers only have the range to reach up to the home point objective.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2270	Posted - 2014.09.30 00:15:00 - [7] - Quote Joel II X wrote: The redline snipers only have the range to reach up to the home point objective. on SOME maps, on ashland you can saftly snipe 4 of 5 objectives from inside your own redline Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9591	Posted - 2014.09.30 01:11:00 - [8] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: have both increased in number and are now more deadly thanks CCP More Deadly or not as populated with lazy snipers as they use to be? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 640	Posted - 2014.09.30 01:15:00 - [9] - Quote Ive given up countersniping. My new tactic is to fly a Gorgon into them and if it doesnt kill them execute them with one of my leftover Aurum HMGs, so they know I really hated them. Only Dust player with all Proto Weapons Prof 1. 19/19. "GET BACK HERE YOU SCRUB" - Lorelei Zee 2014
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16905	Posted - 2014.09.30 01:38:00 - [10] - Quote Been playing with all three rifles lately and find them very useful in a variety of situations now, I have noticed there are many more scoot and move snipers these days and fewer of the heavy suit snipers. Snipers still seem to have the bad case of the tunnel vision though stabbed another guy approaching from his front in a dash to stab him before time ran out. Counter sniping is fun and feasible game of cat and mouse and it gets the heart pumping as your chances of taking them out are nearly as equal provided you find them first or they find you and who can line up the dots the fastest. Overall the guns feel like they cannot suffer any additional real range nerfs because as many pointed out maps are a fault not the gun and this starts to begin playing into forge gun territory as a competitive gun which is a bit silly for it to. There are however ways to cut into that such as decreasing zoom further, or moving the max effective range so that maybe 300 meters you're getting 100% and 50% damage scale down at current max ranges and maybe reducing power projection in other ways though I do not look forward to doing those either. Right now the damage is from what I am seeing so far from most folks spot on. Range is now the primary issue still. I now enjoy seeing all three rifle types on the kill feeds instead of the previous charge one before. So rifles are currently still not perfect for dust but they're much better and closer to needs of the game than ever before. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked

Commander Noctus Gallente Loyalist 83	Posted - 2014.09.30 02:01:00 - [11] - Quote Just a thought, but...what if we address the redline directly? Something I came up with (not sure how feasible it is tech-wise) is turning the current redline into a "blue-line". Calling it that to differentiate it. We remove the redline entirely, meaning no more timer. Enemies can go inside without any concern, meaning redline snipers are no longer safe. HOWEVER. The invincibility timer of clones in their own blue-line is raised substantially (30 seconds perhaps). As soon as they leave the blue-line, they lose the invincibility timer. Or the invincibility timer runs out on its own and they become vulnerable. Also, during this timer, the clones in their own blue-line can kill enemy clones in their blue-line. This could be extended to being able to kill clones outside the blue-line as well. This way, we can go in and kill the camping snipers while also making sure that the clones don't get stomped to death once the enemy gets in the blue-line. Criticisms on this theory are very much welcome, this idea isn't very well fleshed out so I want some input on it. Gallente Assault since Jan. 28th, 2013. Touched on every Gallente role since.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2270	Posted - 2014.09.30 02:05:00 - [12] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Been playing with all three rifles lately and find them very useful in a variety of situations now, I have noticed there are many more scoot and move snipers these days and fewer of the heavy suit snipers. Snipers still seem to have the bad case of the tunnel vision though stabbed another guy approaching from his front in a dash to stab him before time ran out. Counter sniping is fun and feasible game of cat and mouse and it gets the heart pumping as your chances of taking them out are nearly as equal provided you find them first or they find you and who can line up the dots the fastest. Overall the guns feel like they cannot suffer any additional real range nerfs because as many pointed out maps are a fault not the gun and this starts to begin playing into forge gun territory as a competitive gun which is a bit silly for it to. There are however ways to cut into that such as decreasing zoom further, or moving the max effective range so that maybe 300 meters you're getting 100% and 50% damage scale down at current max ranges and maybe reducing power projection in other ways though I do not look forward to doing those either. Right now the damage is from what I am seeing so far from most folks spot on. Range is now the primary issue still. I now enjoy seeing all three rifle types on the kill feeds instead of the previous charge one before. So rifles are currently still not perfect for dust but they're much better and closer to needs of the game than ever before. we seem to be talking about 2 different types of players, your describing people who come out of the redline, im describing the ones who never leave it. i also find it funny that none of your changes involve changing the redline, a bit of a Froidian slip that is. the primary issue is the redline itself, its a broken and useless mechanic that im sure your aware is never going anywhere (due to there being no more design changes/additions to the game) the range decrease just forced redline snipers to have to move and adjust their positions, a stratagy that was already being used by the vast majority of the dedicated reliners anyways. and they got a GIANT damage increase in return. redline sniping was buffed, and unfortunatly there are no available nobs to turn that can eliminate that problem. nothing short of a redesign of redlines will fix the issue at hand and im aware of that. but it still pisses me off slightly. Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1420	Posted - 2014.09.30 05:06:00 - [13] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Been playing with all three rifles lately and find them very useful in a variety of situations now, I have noticed there are many more scoot and move snipers these days and fewer of the heavy suit snipers. Snipers still seem to have the bad case of the tunnel vision though stabbed another guy approaching from his front in a dash to stab him before time ran out. Counter sniping is fun and feasible game of cat and mouse and it gets the heart pumping as your chances of taking them out are nearly as equal provided you find them first or they find you and who can line up the dots the fastest. Overall the guns feel like they cannot suffer any additional real range nerfs because as many pointed out maps are a fault not the gun and this starts to begin playing into forge gun territory as a competitive gun which is a bit silly for it to. There are however ways to cut into that such as decreasing zoom further, or moving the max effective range so that maybe 300 meters you're getting 100% and 50% damage scale down at current max ranges and maybe reducing power projection in other ways though I do not look forward to doing those either. Right now the damage is from what I am seeing so far from most folks spot on. Range is now the primary issue still. I now enjoy seeing all three rifle types on the kill feeds instead of the previous charge one before. So rifles are currently still not perfect for dust but they're much better and closer to needs of the game than ever before. Nerf any single aspect of any of the sniper rifles again, and you might as well remove them from the game altogether. Not only that, but I swear by the gods I will quit this game, take the 10-20USD/month that I've been spending on this game and I will spend it on something else, as well as no longer playing EVE and not buying Legion when it releases. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1818	Posted - 2014.09.30 05:18:00 - [14] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Been playing with all three rifles lately and find them very useful in a variety of situations now, I have noticed there are many more scoot and move snipers these days and fewer of the heavy suit snipers. Snipers still seem to have the bad case of the tunnel vision though stabbed another guy approaching from his front in a dash to stab him before time ran out. Counter sniping is fun and feasible game of cat and mouse and it gets the heart pumping as your chances of taking them out are nearly as equal provided you find them first or they find you and who can line up the dots the fastest. Overall the guns feel like they cannot suffer any additional real range nerfs because as many pointed out maps are a fault not the gun and this starts to begin playing into forge gun territory as a competitive gun which is a bit silly for it to. There are however ways to cut into that such as decreasing zoom further, or moving the max effective range so that maybe 300 meters you're getting 100% and 50% damage scale down at current max ranges and maybe reducing power projection in other ways though I do not look forward to doing those either. Right now the damage is from what I am seeing so far from most folks spot on. Range is now the primary issue still. I now enjoy seeing all three rifle types on the kill feeds instead of the previous charge one before. So rifles are currently still not perfect for dust but they're much better and closer to needs of the game than ever before. IWS the issue has always been and will always be the redline. Its not as huge a problem as it has been in the past but dont forget Railgun and other redline tanks are a pain in the ass for Dropship pilots as well. The redline is a terrible compromise in this game. And certain levels even actively bias one side over the other, thinking especially of that domination map with the redline on the hillside. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1846	Posted - 2014.09.30 05:34:00 - [15] - Quote I think snipers are in a much better place. What needs work is the redline. It doesn't matter what you do to snipers, as long as there is a redline, there will be redline snipers. Just be glad counter sniping them is now far easier than pre-delta. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
DarthPlagueis TheWise 116	Posted - 2014.09.30 05:45:00 - [16] - Quote well the thing is they cant redline snipe on the BIGGEST maps anymore. yes they can do it on the smaller ones. they can do it on the bigger maps but there would either have to be reds at their home point, or the point closest to that point So what's FOTM? "Subways Italian Foot Long Sub" - IWS
Turbo Hall Company 33 1	Posted - 2014.09.30 07:21:00 - [17] - Quote I'm not as skilled as a lot of you guys are. But every one is complaining about everyone else. Real snipers will never be in the middle of battles unless out of ammo or area is not ideal for a sniper. But if everyone is complaining of camping in red line area then if I'm there then I'm doing my job. But I look for high roofs or hills usually closer to enemy red line to snipe there snipers. Also I think a limit of snipers per battle might be a better idea then nerffing the rifles more than they are. Like 2 per side each battle. Just my 2 cents
Mobius Kaethis molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 1906	Posted - 2014.09.30 07:24:00 - [18] - Quote Atiim wrote: Indeed. You should thank CCP for not listening to dedicated Snipers like Appia, Forks, and Snake when they said multiple times that a range nerf would nerf proactive snipers, while leaving redline ones intact. Na. The problem was that they didn't hit range hard enough. Take it down to 250m and give it its current damage. Turbo Hall wrote: everyone is complaining of camping in red line area then if I'm there then I'm doing my job No. No, you really aren't doing your team any favors by being in the redline sniping. From the redline you can't really cover any points and are too far to actively support your squad. If you're sitting in the redline you aren't doing anything buy padding your KDR. Now with more evil.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3844	Posted - 2014.09.30 07:37:00 - [19] - Quote 250m range would be silly. Forge guns would be superior for sniping. And in most cases, it wouldn't stop redlining. 300m gets you most of the way across Manus Peaks. The range on the maps is far too varied to say "oh, nerf the range, it'll fix it". No, it won't. We need actual view distance so we can locate and counter snipers. And yeah, you can do a lot for your team from the redline. Especially on Manus Peaks, where if you're on the "usually wins" side the map, you can prevent the other team from getting their home point with your sniper rifle until your team gets there. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1595	Posted - 2014.09.30 07:43:00 - [20] - Quote Lets actually take a look at what we are complaining about. Is it that redline snipers are crazy OP and winning ever game if you spam a bunch of them or are we just a little annoyed that we get one shoted in are proto suit once or twice a match. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer

Turbo Hall Company 33 1	Posted - 2014.09.30 07:45:00 - [21] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Atiim wrote: Indeed. You should thank CCP for not listening to dedicated Snipers like Appia, Forks, and Snake when they said multiple times that a range nerf would nerf proactive snipers, while leaving redline ones intact. Na. The problem was that they didn't hit range hard enough. Take it down to 250m and give it its current damage. Turbo Hall wrote: everyone is complaining of camping in red line area then if I'm there then I'm doing my job No. No, you really aren't doing your team any favors by being in the redline sniping. From the redline you can't really cover any points and are too far to actively support your squad. If you're sitting in the redline you aren't doing anything buy padding your KDR. Ok so me snipping people on other roofs or snippers are not helping my team to get to there objective points? Or snipe people chasing them down from behind? I feel like I am so I'll keep at it. Do I think there is a problem with too many snipers maybe. Nerffing there tools tho is dumb. A 50 cal in a snipers hand is deadly at mile and half Or 2400 meters. But for this game if I can see you then I should be able you shoot you not this limit bs.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 53	Posted - 2014.09.30 07:50:00 - [22] - Quote Red line kill penalty - 50 dkp for not being the **** where you are suppose to be and reset the k/d scores because those girls have been cheating. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04 New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1639	Posted - 2014.09.30 08:17:00 - [23] - Quote This is coming from a part time sniper who use to run around in the middle of the battlefield with one. Never leaving the redline again with a sniper, thanks for the massive buff CCP so I can kill 20 guys without resupplying ammo Delt for CPM2 CPM1 MISSION : FAILED Moss-delt on skype
Jathniel G I A N T 1168	Posted - 2014.09.30 08:33:00 - [24] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: im still seeing amaar/gallente sentinals sitting 200-300m into the redline... and by seeing i mean feeling as they dont render without a sniper rifle of your own. ive had to fly dropships at them to get them to render for me since i have zero SP into sniper rifles and cant take out an a/gko with a basic sniper before it ganks me. their behavior has changed slightly as they will now move around inside the redline pushing closer or moving further back depending on what bases are capped, the thing thats the same however is that they wont leave the redline. this isnt of course refering to all snipers, just the dedicated redline snipers like wulfgarrd6 who hasnt left the redline in damn near 2 years Can you please indicate which maps you are experiencing this on? With how sniper rifles work now, if someone is sniping from 200-300m within their redline, that leaves about 100m for them to shoot out of the redline. On most maps, this BARELY reaches their home point. If you are getting sniped, and you are SURE it's a redline sniper, that means you are too close to their redline... and this is working as intended. Remember the problem wasn't that you could be killed from the redline, it was that redline snipers could literally snipe across the entire map. This has been solved. So if you can indicate which maps this has NOT been solved on, then you'll have a point of argument. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Jathniel G I A N T 1168	Posted - 2014.09.30 08:38:00 - [25] - Quote The Master Race wrote: Red line kill penalty - 50 dkp for not being the **** where you are suppose to be and reset the k/d scores because those girls have been cheating. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04 lol love 2:40 btw Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 38	Posted - 2014.09.30 09:28:00 - [26] - Quote Turbo Hall wrote: I'm not as skilled as a lot of you guys are. But every one is complaining about everyone else. Real snipers will never be in the middle of battles unless out of ammo or area is not ideal for a sniper. But if everyone is complaining of camping in red line area then if I'm there then I'm doing my job. But I look for high roofs or hills usually closer to enemy red line to snipe there snipers. Also I think a limit of snipers per battle might be a better idea then nerffing the rifles more than they are. Like 2 per side each battle. Just my 2 cents Uhm... No. Unless every class is limited to 2 per battle, then no. People keep (wrongly) complaining that snipers do nothing for their team, and yet they're also complaining that they're getting killed by them. If a sniper did nothing to help a match, people wouldn't be complaining about dying to them. I also think that some players need to actually look at where the redline is. I was sat in a vantage point one match when a squad member came and sat by me to help snipe - enemies on a roof were stopping us hacking an objective. We cleared the roof together, but then a heavy in their LAV came to hunt us down. I ran off to a new point, but my squad mate got killed. They then received a mail from this heavy who was throwing his toys out the pram because there were 3 snipers that match and it wasn't fair. And he claimed we were in the redline. Only, that's my favourite sniping spot for that map regardless of which side I start on. It's a pain to get to, but it's definitely out of the redline, and since he had actually come to find us, he should have known that! Also worth noting that a redline penalty won't work because teams will still get redlined, and will need to kill from there. If we want to complain about players being in the redline, can we start with those super-speedy invisible scouts who OHK you just after you spawn at your home point? They're definitely in the redline, only difference being that it's the enemy one.
Mobius Kaethis molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 1906	Posted - 2014.09.30 09:37:00 - [27] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: 250m range would be silly. Forge guns would be superior for sniping. And in most cases, it wouldn't stop redlining. 300m gets you most of the way across Manus Peaks. The range on the maps is far too varied to say "oh, nerf the range, it'll fix it". No, it won't. We need actual view distance so we can locate and counter snipers. And yeah, you can do a lot for your team from the redline. Especially on Manus Peaks, where if you're on the "usually wins" side the map, you can prevent the other team from getting their home point with your sniper rifle until your team gets there. I think it was pretty clear that I was simply making a sassy comment here and not a serious suggestion. Obviously the problem of redline sniping is one that cannot be fixed by a range nerf. Now with more evil.
Mobius Kaethis molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 1906	Posted - 2014.09.30 09:48:00 - [28] - Quote Turbo Hall wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: Atiim wrote: Indeed. You should thank CCP for not listening to dedicated Snipers like Appia, Forks, and Snake when they said multiple times that a range nerf would nerf proactive snipers, while leaving redline ones intact. Na. The problem was that they didn't hit range hard enough. Take it down to 250m and give it its current damage. Turbo Hall wrote: everyone is complaining of camping in red line area then if I'm there then I'm doing my job No. No, you really aren't doing your team any favors by being in the redline sniping. From the redline you can't really cover any points and are too far to actively support your squad. If you're sitting in the redline you aren't doing anything buy padding your KDR. Ok so me snipping people on other roofs or snippers are not helping my team to get to there objective points? Or snipe people chasing them down from behind? I feel like I am so I'll keep at it. Do I think there is a problem with too many snipers maybe. Nerffing there tools tho is dumb. A 50 cal in a snipers hand is deadly at mile and half Or 2400 meters. But for this game if I can see you then I should be able you shoot you not this limit bs. All messing with you aside I really don't think a 250m range will fix the issue of you sitting in the redline which at this point probably doesn't stop you from killing. Mind you I have never, since closed beta, been stopped from performing any task in Dust by a sniper. You may feel like you're having an effect from the redline but it is so minimal as to be essentially discountable. The problem with redline sniping is simply that it invalidates the risk reward mechanics that are the foundation of the game. When anyone other than a sniper deploys into a battle they have to make numerous decisions about what risks to take based on the potential rewards. "Should I make a blind rush into the point to hack but risk being shot in the back, or rush it drop RE and step back to blow the first red who gets there allowing me to hack in relative safety," kind of thing. Snipers, who are sitting in the redline have removed themselves from this equation. They don't have to take risks but they still have the potential to get rewarded, a fact that is extremely frustrating. Using the same weapon as the one that is killing you (ie if you want to kill a sniper you need to become a sniper) also forces the game to become too uni-dimensional. All playstyles should be part of the risk reward system. Now with more evil.
Appia Vibbia 3801	Posted - 2014.09.30 10:40:00 - [29] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Been playing with all three rifles lately and find them very useful in a variety of situations now, I have noticed there are many more scoot and move snipers these days and fewer of the heavy suit snipers. Snipers still seem to have the bad case of the tunnel vision though stabbed another guy approaching from his front in a dash to stab him before time ran out. Counter sniping is fun and feasible game of cat and mouse and it gets the heart pumping as your chances of taking them out are nearly as equal provided you find them first or they find you and who can line up the dots the fastest. Overall the guns feel like they cannot suffer any additional real range nerfs because as many pointed out maps are a fault not the gun and this starts to begin playing into forge gun territory as a competitive gun which is a bit silly for it to. There are however ways to cut into that such as decreasing zoom further, or moving the max effective range so that maybe 300 meters you're getting 100% and 50% damage scale down at current max ranges and maybe reducing power projection in other ways though I do not look forward to doing those either. Right now the damage is from what I am seeing so far from most folks spot on. Range is now the primary issue still. I now enjoy seeing all three rifle types on the kill feeds instead of the previous charge one before. So rifles are currently still not perfect for dust but they're much better and closer to needs of the game than ever before. You stupid little ***. Further nerfs to range would only make it less useful. As it stands you had the ability to bring it up to par and make it useful in PC. Instead you supported a range nerf that only turned it from 0 people using it to maybe a single player* pulling out a Thale's for a minute or two before they're no longer useful. Only that role is still outperformed by Assault Dropships making bombing runs to clear out equipment followed by another run to kill people or force them off a spot. You can no longer be an effective counter sniper because the range nerf means you need to greatly expose yourself to vehicles, regular infantry, and the snipers you want to hit because they'll position themselves so you can only see them from certain angles. BTW, decreased zoom helps snipers. At further distances, a reticle that hovers over a target will register a hit- assuming invisible terrain isn't obstructing the shot. Personal Theme Song
Blueprint For Murder Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.09.30 10:48:00 - [30] - Quote Tanks that sit at spawn are horrid as well any chance you guys could make them take as much dmg as they do if done from behind the line?

Appia Vibbia 3801	Posted - 2014.09.30 10:49:00 - [31] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Snipers, who are sitting in the redline have removed themselves from this equation. They don't have to take risks but they still have the potential to get rewarded, a fact that is extremely frustrating. Using the same weapon as the one that is killing you (ie if you want to kill a sniper you need to become a sniper) also forces the game to become too uni-dimensional. All playstyles should be part of the risk reward system. The thing I hate most about red-line sniping is the simple fact that you can sit out in the open, in the most obvious of places, because no one can kill you there without great risk to themselves. When shooting beyond the 300m range in the field of play, the game has existed for so long with so few maps, that real snipers need to be creative in where they shoot from. You need to find a place with LoS on an important area, either a control point or an area that needs to be traversed. Or you need to find a spot where you can watch your squad mates and pick off any enemies that are trying to shoot them. Not in the redline though. As long as you're 50m back then infantry need to come to you. You'll see them walking towards where you are. If someone tries to take an LAV to you. All you need to do is outlast them before the timer expires. Though vehicle: stationary dropship with small rails, ADS, LAV with small rail, LAV driving up to them, Large Rail on a tank, or landing on top of someone with a dropship- those are much better counters to snipers in obvious locations than another sniper rifle. Personal Theme Song
Appia Nappia 1179	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:02:00 - [32] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: 250m range would be silly. Forge guns would be superior for sniping. And in most cases, it wouldn't stop redlining. 300m gets you most of the way across Manus Peaks. The range on the maps is far too varied to say "oh, nerf the range, it'll fix it". No, it won't. We need actual view distance so we can locate and counter snipers. And yeah, you can do a lot for your team from the redline. Especially on Manus Peaks, where if you're on the "usually wins" side the map, you can prevent the other team from getting their home point with your sniper rifle until your team gets there. You know what would be sexy? If manus peak had it's old starting spawn locations and old red-line back. Because those kids on the "always win" side wouldn't be sniping from the redline anymore. I fondly remember pushing people back into the starting location on Manus Peak and sitting on that mountain that is now in their red line. So very tired
Atiim 12622	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:28:00 - [33] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Na. The problem was that they didn't hit range hard enough. Take it down to 250m and give it its current damage. Thus removing the point of using Sniper Rifles over Forge Guns . The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2274	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:35:00 - [34] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: im still seeing amaar/gallente sentinals sitting 200-300m into the redline... and by seeing i mean feeling as they dont render without a sniper rifle of your own. ive had to fly dropships at them to get them to render for me since i have zero SP into sniper rifles and cant take out an a/gko with a basic sniper before it ganks me. their behavior has changed slightly as they will now move around inside the redline pushing closer or moving further back depending on what bases are capped, the thing thats the same however is that they wont leave the redline. this isnt of course refering to all snipers, just the dedicated redline snipers like wulfgarrd6 who hasnt left the redline in damn near 2 years Can you please indicate which maps you are experiencing this on? With how sniper rifles work now, if someone is sniping from 200-300m within their redline, that leaves about 100m for them to shoot out of the redline. On most maps, this BARELY reaches their home point. If you are getting sniped, and you are SURE it's a redline sniper, that means you are too close to their redline... and this is working as intended. Remember the problem wasn't that you could be killed from the redline, it was that redline snipers could literally snipe across the entire map. This has been solved. So if you can indicate which maps this has NOT been solved on, then you'll have a point of argument. ashlands, you can hit 4 out of 5 objectives from the redline, granted you have to be pretty close to the edge but you do not ever have to leave the redline for 4/5 coverage Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
Onesimus Tarsus is-a-Corporation 2677	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:43:00 - [35] - Quote Lethality. It's a real problem. The sig is back! K/D(r) matchmaking would even fix the matchmaking fix.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16931	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:44:00 - [36] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: we seem to be talking about 2 different types of players, your describing people who come out of the redline, im describing the ones who never leave it. i also find it funny that none of your changes involve changing the redline, a bit of a Froidian slip that is. the primary issue is the redline itself, its a broken and useless mechanic that im sure your aware is never going anywhere (due to there being no more design changes/additions to the game) the range decrease just forced redline snipers to have to move and adjust their positions, a stratagy that was already being used by the vast majority of the dedicated reliners anyways. and they got a GIANT damage increase in return. redline sniping was buffed, and unfortunatly there are no available nobs to turn that can eliminate that problem. nothing short of a redesign of redlines will fix the issue at hand and im aware of that. but it still pisses me off slightly. What you are asking for is a clay sculpture when all I have are paintbrushes and a canvas. Redline properties is something that currently as far as I am aware is not feasible for a hot fix and I wish players would stop thinking it is a possible solution. The range nerf did seriously though cut into how much deep into the redline immunity they have on several maps and the zoom nerf on the thales removed its rendering immunity from other sniper rifles and one major overall effect is that these snipers are now dying much more frequently than before to other snipers because the op for now has a chance to spawn and plan an approach where the sniper does not have full coverage or dominance. Maps like manus peak are though still very bad because there is only about 100 meters of shared play room and snipers have about 250+ deep into the zone. Once again problem with the maps themselves. The redline mechanic itself can be seemingly viewed as a poorly designed mechanic as well but also I can challenge that notion saying its a poorly wielded mechanic by the map design team on those maps. Previous incarnates of the redlines on the older maps had lead to redlining and camping, oftel. The newer maps represent what a perfected layout of redlines, map zones, and map lay should look like these places and with current sniper ranges really do force snipers into the field though they may still skirt the edge of area of intended combat there is nothing stopping a cloaker from going up to and laying an RE on their heads to kill them. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16931	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:47:00 - [37] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Been playing with all three rifles lately and find them very useful in a variety of situations now, I have noticed there are many more scoot and move snipers these days and fewer of the heavy suit snipers. Snipers still seem to have the bad case of the tunnel vision though stabbed another guy approaching from his front in a dash to stab him before time ran out. Counter sniping is fun and feasible game of cat and mouse and it gets the heart pumping as your chances of taking them out are nearly as equal provided you find them first or they find you and who can line up the dots the fastest. Overall the guns feel like they cannot suffer any additional real range nerfs because as many pointed out maps are a fault not the gun and this starts to begin playing into forge gun territory as a competitive gun which is a bit silly for it to. There are however ways to cut into that such as decreasing zoom further, or moving the max effective range so that maybe 300 meters you're getting 100% and 50% damage scale down at current max ranges and maybe reducing power projection in other ways though I do not look forward to doing those either. Right now the damage is from what I am seeing so far from most folks spot on. Range is now the primary issue still. I now enjoy seeing all three rifle types on the kill feeds instead of the previous charge one before. So rifles are currently still not perfect for dust but they're much better and closer to needs of the game than ever before. You stupid little ***. Further nerfs to range would only make it less useful. As it stands you had the ability to bring it up to par and make it useful in PC. Instead you supported a range nerf that only turned it from 0 people using it to maybe a single player* pulling out a Thale's for a minute or two before they're no longer useful. Only that role is still outperformed by Assault Dropships making bombing runs to clear out equipment followed by another run to kill people or force them off a spot. You can no longer be an effective counter sniper because the range nerf means you need to greatly expose yourself to vehicles, regular infantry, and the snipers you want to hit because they'll position themselves so you can only see them from certain angles. BTW, decreased zoom helps snipers. At further distances, a reticle that hovers over a target will register a hit- assuming invisible terrain isn't obstructing the shot. Hey appia please reread. You are letting your emotions get the best of you. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2274	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:49:00 - [38] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: we seem to be talking about 2 different types of players, your describing people who come out of the redline, im describing the ones who never leave it. i also find it funny that none of your changes involve changing the redline, a bit of a Froidian slip that is. the primary issue is the redline itself, its a broken and useless mechanic that im sure your aware is never going anywhere (due to there being no more design changes/additions to the game) the range decrease just forced redline snipers to have to move and adjust their positions, a stratagy that was already being used by the vast majority of the dedicated reliners anyways. and they got a GIANT damage increase in return. redline sniping was buffed, and unfortunatly there are no available nobs to turn that can eliminate that problem. nothing short of a redesign of redlines will fix the issue at hand and im aware of that. but it still pisses me off slightly. What you are asking for is a clay sculpture when all I have are paintbrushes and a canvas. Redline properties is something that currently as far as I am aware is not feasible for a hot fix and I wish players would stop thinking it is a possible solution. The range nerf did seriously though cut into how much deep into the redline immunity they have on several maps and the zoom nerf on the thales removed its rendering immunity from other sniper rifles and one major overall effect is that these snipers are now dying much more frequently than before to other snipers because the op for now has a chance to spawn and plan an approach where the sniper does not have full coverage or dominance. Maps like manus peak are though still very bad because there is only about 100 meters of shared play room and snipers have about 250+ deep into the zone. Once again problem with the maps themselves. The redline mechanic itself can be seemingly viewed as a poorly designed mechanic as well but also I can challenge that notion saying its a poorly wielded mechanic by the map design team on those maps. Previous incarnates of the redlines on the older maps had lead to redlining and camping, oftel. The newer maps represent what a perfected layout of redlines, map zones, and map lay should look like these places and with current sniper ranges really do force snipers into the field though they may still skirt the edge of area of intended combat there is nothing stopping a cloaker from going up to and laying an RE on their heads to kill them. i was and am well aware the redline is permanant and can no longer change. doesnt mean i cant be pissed about it. and yes the new maps are wonderful, unfortunatly the guy who made em isnt with CCP anymore either so we wont be getting enough of these new beautifully designed maps to replace the old broken ones. something that probably should of been taken into account before the work on the 2 updated map sets was transfered to legion. Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16935	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:51:00 - [39] - Quote I mean if i could redo maps in hotfixes I'd delete the mountains behind both redlines on ashlands as a start. :D CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16935	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:52:00 - [40] - Quote Appia Nappia wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: 250m range would be silly. Forge guns would be superior for sniping. And in most cases, it wouldn't stop redlining. 300m gets you most of the way across Manus Peaks. The range on the maps is far too varied to say "oh, nerf the range, it'll fix it". No, it won't. We need actual view distance so we can locate and counter snipers. And yeah, you can do a lot for your team from the redline. Especially on Manus Peaks, where if you're on the "usually wins" side the map, you can prevent the other team from getting their home point with your sniper rifle until your team gets there. You know what would be sexy? If manus peak had it's old starting spawn locations and old red-line back. Because those kids on the "always win" side wouldn't be sniping from the redline anymore. I fondly remember pushing people back into the starting location on Manus Peak and sitting on that mountain that is now in their red line. Hi 3 Rail tanks would like to camp your zone. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked

Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2276	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:55:00 - [41] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Appia Nappia wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: 250m range would be silly. Forge guns would be superior for sniping. And in most cases, it wouldn't stop redlining. 300m gets you most of the way across Manus Peaks. The range on the maps is far too varied to say "oh, nerf the range, it'll fix it". No, it won't. We need actual view distance so we can locate and counter snipers. And yeah, you can do a lot for your team from the redline. Especially on Manus Peaks, where if you're on the "usually wins" side the map, you can prevent the other team from getting their home point with your sniper rifle until your team gets there. You know what would be sexy? If manus peak had it's old starting spawn locations and old red-line back. Because those kids on the "always win" side wouldn't be sniping from the redline anymore. I fondly remember pushing people back into the starting location on Manus Peak and sitting on that mountain that is now in their red line. Hi 3 Rail tanks would like to camp your zone. i used to shoot folks with a railgun as they were falling out of the MCC so i can vouch, the redline camping with rail tanks WAS REAL. and i was invincable on manus peak ironically it was teh redline snipers that got me into railtanking in the first place, as i required that hard shell to survive the barrage of em, i then wiped them out with my railgun... my hatred for those who dont leave the redline runs long and deep. Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
PROPHET HELLSCREAM UNSVER UNITED 11	Posted - 2014.09.30 14:42:00 - [42] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: I also think that some players need to actually look at where the redline is. I was sat in a vantage point one match when a squad member came and sat by me to help snipe - enemies on a roof were stopping us hacking an objective. We cleared the roof together, but then a heavy in their LAV came to hunt us down. ... And he claimed we were in the redline. Only, that's my favourite sniping spot for that map regardless of which side I start on. It's a pain to get to, but it's definitely out of the redline, and since he had actually come to find us, he should have known that! the same happened with me this sunday... but it happen in the map with the 6 towers i was in the base of the 2 tower and he keeped spawning in the top of the tower opposite to mine! and he mail me saying i was in the red line blabla bla... !! Raptor Princess wrote: If we want to complain about players being in the redline, can we start with those super-speedy invisible scouts who OHK you just after you spawn at your home point? They're definitely in the redline, only difference being that it's the enemy one. Whel said... or when in domination they keep there around the cap point, running, farming kills without trying once to cap the objetive!! yes cloacked units are in the same level as red line snipers. sooo lets talk about nerfing the cloacks too!!! Again thx for delta!! headshot is more efective ! Hobby: Headshot on cloaked units
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 38	Posted - 2014.09.30 17:04:00 - [43] - Quote PROPHET HELLSCREAM wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: I also think that some players need to actually look at where the redline is. I was sat in a vantage point one match when a squad member came and sat by me to help snipe - enemies on a roof were stopping us hacking an objective. We cleared the roof together, but then a heavy in their LAV came to hunt us down. ... And he claimed we were in the redline. Only, that's my favourite sniping spot for that map regardless of which side I start on. It's a pain to get to, but it's definitely out of the redline, and since he had actually come to find us, he should have known that! the same happened with me this sunday... but it happen in the map with the 6 towers i was in the base of the 2 tower and he keeped spawning in the top of the tower opposite to mine! and he mail me saying i was in the red line blabla bla... !! Oh no, I wasn't annoyed that he thought we were in the redline just because we killed him, what I'm annoyed about is that he was so silly to think that when he had actually come right up to us to kill us, thus standing in the not-red-line spot we were sat in. If we were in the redline, then he would have been dead after he stood there trying to shoot me for a good 20 seconds while I ran away. So I think part of the problem is that the people who claim snipers are in the redline just can't tell what's redline and what's not (clue: the bit with red stripes on it in your radar/where yo suicide if you've been there too long). If I was in the redline, I'd put my hands up and admit to it. But I do try and stay out the redline as a general rule. PROPHET HELLSCREAM wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: If we want to complain about players being in the redline, can we start with those super-speedy invisible scouts who OHK you just after you spawn at your home point? They're definitely in the redline, only difference being that it's the enemy one. Whel said... or when in domination they keep there around the cap point, running, farming kills without trying once to cap the objetive!! yes cloacked units are in the same level as red line snipers. sooo lets talk about nerfing the cloacks too!!! Again thx for delta!! headshot is more efective ! Yep. Why do people want snipers nerfed when cloaked shotgunners are much worse. I honestly think there's less risk to running around invisible than sitting in the redline. When I have been sat in the redline, I've been killed plenty. When I ran around invisible once or twice, I managed to survive for ages! (But please don't remove cloaks. I find killing a cloaker far more satisfying than killing a scout without one. (not as satisfying as taking out a sentinel with a sniper rifle though)
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2279	Posted - 2014.09.30 17:21:00 - [44] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: PROPHET HELLSCREAM wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: I also think that some players need to actually look at where the redline is. I was sat in a vantage point one match when a squad member came and sat by me to help snipe - enemies on a roof were stopping us hacking an objective. We cleared the roof together, but then a heavy in their LAV came to hunt us down. ... And he claimed we were in the redline. Only, that's my favourite sniping spot for that map regardless of which side I start on. It's a pain to get to, but it's definitely out of the redline, and since he had actually come to find us, he should have known that! the same happened with me this sunday... but it happen in the map with the 6 towers i was in the base of the 2 tower and he keeped spawning in the top of the tower opposite to mine! and he mail me saying i was in the red line blabla bla... !! Oh no, I wasn't annoyed that he thought we were in the redline just because we killed him, what I'm annoyed about is that he was so silly to think that when he had actually come right up to us to kill us, thus standing in the not-red-line spot we were sat in. If we were in the redline, then he would have been dead after he stood there trying to shoot me for a good 20 seconds while I ran away. So I think part of the problem is that the people who claim snipers are in the redline just can't tell what's redline and what's not (clue: the bit with red stripes on it in your radar/where yo suicide if you've been there too long). If I was in the redline, I'd put my hands up and admit to it. But I do try and stay out the redline as a general rule. PROPHET HELLSCREAM wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: If we want to complain about players being in the redline, can we start with those super-speedy invisible scouts who OHK you just after you spawn at your home point? They're definitely in the redline, only difference being that it's the enemy one. Whel said... or when in domination they keep there around the cap point, running, farming kills without trying once to cap the objetive!! yes cloacked units are in the same level as red line snipers. sooo lets talk about nerfing the cloacks too!!! Again thx for delta!! headshot is more efective ! Yep. Why do people want snipers nerfed when cloaked shotgunners are much worse. I honestly think there's less risk to running around invisible than sitting in the redline. When I have been sat in the redline, I've been killed plenty. When I ran around invisible once or twice, I managed to survive for ages! (But please don't remove cloaks. I find killing a cloaker far more satisfying than killing a scout without one. (not as satisfying as taking out a sentinel with a sniper rifle though) people want the redline nerfed not the snipers in particular (weather or not they know the difference) the only problem is that the redline can never change, it cant be moved/adjusted or redesigned. the only thing you could potentially do is remove wp and stat rewards for killing while your in your own redline, and even that wont really fix the problem as much as it just discourages its use in pub matches Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 38	Posted - 2014.09.30 17:40:00 - [45] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: people want the redline nerfed not the snipers in particular (weather or not they know the difference) the only problem is that the redline can never change, it cant be moved/adjusted or redesigned. the only thing you could potentially do is remove wp and stat rewards for killing while your in your own redline, and even that wont really fix the problem as much as it just discourages its use in pub matches Removing WP for killing while in the redline won't work - if you're being redlined, there's not much of an option but to kill in the redline. I've had to snipe a few people from within my redline because they camp just outside it and headshot you as you try to get into the match. The maps need changing in their entirety. If the redline was always a flat, empty area and the maps had lots of nice little hidey holes for snipers, then I'm pretty sure that would solve the problem. Or make the redline in a crater so you can't see out of it unless you climb up and skyline yourself, thus clearly showing your position.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2484	Posted - 2014.09.30 17:41:00 - [46] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Lets actually take a look at what we are complaining about. Is it that redline snipers are crazy OP and winning ever game if you spam a bunch of them or are we just a little annoyed that we get one shoted in are proto suit once or twice a match. For me, it's that half of the Caldari FW team does this and ends up costing every single bloody match. I don't mind fighting red-line snipers at all, especially given the new stats make it childishly easy for me to kill them if they bother me enough (Heloooooooooo D-modded charge on a Cloaky!). But on my team, if there are more then 2 or 3, or if we have all of our side of the map secure and they won't move up, then yeah it bothers me a great deal. Shrugs But hey, I'm not going to tell someone to change their play style, considering I play games solely for my entertainment. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
gauntlet44 LbowDeep Heaven84 Devils General Tso's Alliance 134	Posted - 2014.09.30 17:45:00 - [47] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: im still seeing amaar/gallente sentinals sitting 200-300m into the redline... and by seeing i mean feeling as they dont render without a sniper rifle of your own. ive had to fly dropships at them to get them to render for me since i have zero SP into sniper rifles and cant take out an a/gko with a basic sniper before it ganks me. their behavior has changed slightly as they will now move around inside the redline pushing closer or moving further back depending on what bases are capped, the thing thats the same however is that they wont leave the redline. this isnt of course refering to all snipers, just the dedicated redline snipers like wulfgarrd6 who hasnt left the redline in damn near 2 years one thing has changed seeing a logi repping the sentinel with a thales on top of the mcc also play as strangeland stranger, larlac theest, gauntlett5487, and balacs sixkin
Thor Odinson42 molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 4819	Posted - 2014.09.30 17:45:00 - [48] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: have both increased in number and are now more deadly thanks CCP What other things could they do to reward passive play some more? Each side could have a tower that is unreachable by enemy dropshits due to some weird flight ceiling. That way the entire team can just get up there and snipe at the other team on their tower. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2281	Posted - 2014.09.30 17:46:00 - [49] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: people want the redline nerfed not the snipers in particular (weather or not they know the difference) the only problem is that the redline can never change, it cant be moved/adjusted or redesigned. the only thing you could potentially do is remove wp and stat rewards for killing while your in your own redline, and even that wont really fix the problem as much as it just discourages its use in pub matches Removing WP for killing while in the redline won't work - if you're being redlined, there's not much of an option but to kill in the redline. I've had to snipe a few people from within my redline because they camp just outside it and headshot you as you try to get into the match. The maps need changing in their entirety. If the redline was always a flat, empty area and the maps had lots of nice little hidey holes for snipers, then I'm pretty sure that would solve the problem. Or make the redline in a crater so you can't see out of it unless you climb up and skyline yourself, thus clearly showing your position. not working and not providing rewards are two different things, it will work it just happens to also punish another group unfairly while it does so. granted if your redlined that badly i suggest sitting in the MCC anyways so its not a big deal if you dont get WP or stats for that kinda matchup Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
Thor Odinson42 molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 4820	Posted - 2014.09.30 17:49:00 - [50] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Raptor Princess wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: people want the redline nerfed not the snipers in particular (weather or not they know the difference) the only problem is that the redline can never change, it cant be moved/adjusted or redesigned. the only thing you could potentially do is remove wp and stat rewards for killing while your in your own redline, and even that wont really fix the problem as much as it just discourages its use in pub matches Removing WP for killing while in the redline won't work - if you're being redlined, there's not much of an option but to kill in the redline. I've had to snipe a few people from within my redline because they camp just outside it and headshot you as you try to get into the match. The maps need changing in their entirety. If the redline was always a flat, empty area and the maps had lots of nice little hidey holes for snipers, then I'm pretty sure that would solve the problem. Or make the redline in a crater so you can't see out of it unless you climb up and skyline yourself, thus clearly showing your position. not working and not providing rewards are two different things, it will work it just happens to also punish another group unfairly while it does so. granted if your redlined that badly i suggest sitting in the MCC anyways so its not a big deal if you dont get WP or stats for that kinda matchup God forbid they find a group of players to play with that could actually help win the matches instead of just crossing their fingers that there are enough other people doing stuff on their team to help them win. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42

Thor Odinson42 molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 4820	Posted - 2014.09.30 17:51:00 - [51] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Lets actually take a look at what we are complaining about. Is it that redline snipers are crazy OP and winning ever game if you spam a bunch of them or are we just a little annoyed that we get one shoted in are proto suit once or twice a match. For me, it's that half of the Caldari FW team does this and ends up costing every single bloody match. I don't mind fighting red-line snipers at all, especially given the new stats make it childishly easy for me to kill them if they bother me enough (Heloooooooooo D-modded charge on a Cloaky!). But on my team, if there are more then 2 or 3, or if we have all of our side of the map secure and they won't move up, then yeah it bothers me a great deal. Shrugs But hey, I'm not going to tell someone to change their play style, considering I play games solely for my entertainment. The best thing in that scenario is to start team killing the snipers. I've been lucky enough to have a few of them TK me back 5 times resulting in them being banned for 24 hours, thus removing their dead weight from FW matches to the benefit of all for 24 short hours. It's best to stand in their way while they are trying to snipe, they may or may not team kill you. But it's worth a shot. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1430	Posted - 2014.09.30 17:57:00 - [52] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: What you are asking for is a clay sculpture when all I have are paintbrushes and a canvas. Redline properties is something that currently as far as I am aware is not feasible for a hot fix and I wish players would stop thinking it is a possible solution. The range nerf did seriously though cut into how much deep into the redline immunity they have on several maps and the zoom nerf on the thales removed its rendering immunity from other sniper rifles and one major overall effect is that these snipers are now dying much more frequently than before to other snipers because the op for now has a chance to spawn and plan an approach where the sniper does not have full coverage or dominance. Maps like manus peak are though still very bad because there is only about 100 meters of shared play room and snipers have about 250+ deep into the zone. Once again problem with the maps themselves. The redline mechanic itself can be seemingly viewed as a poorly designed mechanic as well but also I can challenge that notion saying its a poorly wielded mechanic by the map design team on those maps. Previous incarnates of the redlines on the older maps had lead to redlining and camping, oftel. The newer maps represent what a perfected layout of redlines, map zones, and map lay should look like these places and with current sniper ranges really do force snipers into the field though they may still skirt the edge of area of intended combat there is nothing stopping a cloaker from going up to and laying an RE on their heads to kill them. You can't place an RE in the enemy redline - it evaporates immediately. I know this, because I went to put REs on a Gunnlogi in the redline on Spine Crescent, only to watch them go poof as soon as they were on the tank's hull. I've seen it said a number of times that Rattati and/or Logibro is trying to get approval for a client update. This is why I've been buying Aurum the last few months. To help that effort by contributing to the game's revenue generation as best I can. The hope being that if CCP sees profit from the endeavour, they will approve a client update. IF that client update comes, the redline must be gotten rid of. There are better solutions for the problem of a team getting "redlined". If a team has no CRU and no uplinks on a Skirm or Dom match, then a Smart Deploy location dynamically selected from 3 to 5 possible locations then goes active. If there is more than, say, 2 enemy players within 150m of that location, then another location goes active and that location goes inactive. Voila! No more getting redlined or spawncamped. And when the redline goes, give us back our range. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 38	Posted - 2014.09.30 17:59:00 - [53] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: not working and not providing rewards are two different things, it will work it just happens to also punish another group unfairly while it does so. granted if your redlined that badly i suggest sitting in the MCC anyways so its not a big deal if you dont get WP or stats for that kinda matchup Why would anyone even try and break out of the redline if they were getting no reward for doing so? Not giving points for killing the team redlining you just causes people to give up trying. People will end up quitting the matches when they get redlined, because they'll earn 0SP for sticking around, whereas they could at least earn some if they quit and started a new match.
Shley Ashes Commando Perkone Caldari State 182	Posted - 2014.09.30 18:04:00 - [54] - Quote I tried to voice that it was a bad idea to buff snipers while leaving the redline snipers viable but that just fell on deaf ears, I never really had an answer to the problem all I could do was attempt to make suggestions within the confines of thing I thought viable. I wish I'd screenshot this beautiful Blue mass in the redline the other day just to prove the point. For 21 day EveOnline trial https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=0f1324bf-679c-420a-b7ed-c181423c1369&action=buddy


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