Snipers, who are sitting in the redline have removed themselves from this equation. They don't have to take risks but they still have the potential to get rewarded, a fact that is extremely frustrating. Using the same weapon as the one that is killing you (ie if you want to kill a sniper you need to become a sniper) also forces the game to become too uni-dimensional. All playstyles should be part of the risk reward system.

250m range would be silly. Forge guns would be superior for sniping. And in most cases, it wouldn't stop redlining. 300m gets you most of the way across Manus Peaks. The range on the maps is far too varied to say "oh, nerf the range, it'll fix it". No, it won't.

We need actual view distance so we can locate and counter snipers.

And yeah, you can do a lot for your team from the redline. Especially on Manus Peaks, where if you're on the "usually wins" side the map, you can prevent the other team from getting their home point with your sniper rifle until your team gets there.

Na. The problem was that they didn't hit range hard enough. Take it down to 250m and give it its current damage.

Can you please indicate which maps you are experiencing this on?
With how sniper rifles work now, if someone is sniping from 200-300m within their redline, that leaves about 100m for them to shoot out of the redline.

On most maps, this BARELY reaches their home point.

If you are getting sniped, and you are SURE it's a redline sniper, that means you are too close to their redline... and this is working as intended.

Remember the problem wasn't that you could be killed from the redline, it was that redline snipers could literally snipe across the entire map. This has been solved.

So if you can indicate which maps this has NOT been solved on, then you'll have a point of argument.

we seem to be talking about 2 different types of players, your describing people who come out of the redline, im describing the ones who never leave it.

i also find it funny that none of your changes involve changing the redline, a bit of a Froidian slip that is.

the primary issue is the redline itself, its a broken and useless mechanic that im sure your aware is never going anywhere (due to there being no more design changes/additions to the game)

the range decrease just forced redline snipers to have to move and adjust their positions, a stratagy that was already being used by the vast majority of the dedicated reliners anyways. and they got a GIANT damage increase in return.

redline sniping was buffed, and unfortunatly there are no available nobs to turn that can eliminate that problem. nothing short of a redesign of redlines will fix the issue at hand and im aware of that. but it still pisses me off slightly.

You stupid little ****. Further nerfs to range would only make it less useful. As it stands you had the ability to bring it up to par and make it useful in PC. Instead you supported a range nerf that only turned it from 0 people using it to maybe a single player pulling out a Thale's for a minute or two before they're no longer useful. Only that role is still outperformed by Assault Dropships making bombing runs to clear out equipment followed by another run to kill people or force them off a spot.

You can no longer be an effective counter sniper because the range nerf means you need to greatly expose yourself to vehicles, regular infantry, and the snipers you want to hit because they'll position themselves so you can only see them from certain angles.

BTW, decreased zoom helps snipers. At further distances, a reticle that hovers over a target will register a hit- assuming invisible terrain isn't obstructing the shot.

What you are asking for is a clay sculpture when all I have are paintbrushes and a canvas.

Redline properties is something that currently as far as I am aware is not feasible for a hot fix and I wish players would stop thinking it is a possible solution.

The range nerf did seriously though cut into how much deep into the redline immunity they have on several maps and the zoom nerf on the thales removed its rendering immunity from other sniper rifles and one major overall effect is that these snipers are now dying much more frequently than before to other snipers because the op for now has a chance to spawn and plan an approach where the sniper does not have full coverage or dominance.

Maps like manus peak are though still very bad because there is only about 100 meters of shared play room and snipers have about 250+ deep into the zone. Once again problem with the maps themselves. The redline mechanic itself can be seemingly viewed as a poorly designed mechanic as well but also I can challenge that notion saying its a poorly wielded mechanic by the map design team on those maps. Previous incarnates of the redlines on the older maps had lead to redlining and camping, oftel. The newer maps represent what a perfected layout of redlines, map zones, and map lay should look like these places and with current sniper ranges really do force snipers into the field though they may still skirt the edge of area of intended combat there is nothing stopping a cloaker from going up to and laying an RE on their heads to kill them.

You know what would be sexy? If manus peak had it's old starting spawn locations and old red-line back. Because those kids on the "always win" side wouldn't be sniping from the redline anymore.

I fondly remember pushing people back into the starting location on Manus Peak and sitting on that mountain that is now in their red line.

Hi 3 Rail tanks would like to camp your zone.

I also think that some players need to actually look at where the redline is. I was sat in a vantage point one match when a squad member came and sat by me to help snipe - enemies on a roof were stopping us hacking an objective. We cleared the roof together, but then a heavy in their LAV came to hunt us down. ... And he claimed we were in the redline. Only, that's my favourite sniping spot for that map regardless of which side I start on. It's a pain to get to, but it's definitely out of the redline, and since he had actually come to find us, he should have known that!

If we want to complain about players being in the redline, can we start with those super-speedy invisible scouts who OHK you just after you spawn at your home point? They're definitely in the redline, only difference being that it's the enemy one.

the same happened with me this sunday... but it happen in the map with the 6 towers i was in the base of the 2 tower and he keeped spawning in the top of the tower opposite to mine! and he mail me saying i was in the red line blabla bla... !!

Whel said... or when in domination they keep there around the cap point, running, farming kills without trying once to cap the objetive!!
yes cloacked units are in the same level as red line snipers. sooo lets talk about nerfing the cloacks too!!!

Again thx for delta!! headshot is more efective !

Oh no, I wasn't annoyed that he thought we were in the redline just because we killed him, what I'm annoyed about is that he was so silly to think that when he had actually come right up to us to kill us, thus standing in the not-red-line spot we were sat in. If we were in the redline, then he would have been dead after he stood there trying to shoot me for a good 20 seconds while I ran away. So I think part of the problem is that the people who claim snipers are in the redline just can't tell what's redline and what's not (clue: the bit with red stripes on it in your radar/where yo suicide if you've been there too long).

If I was in the redline, I'd put my hands up and admit to it. But I do try and stay out the redline as a general rule.



Yep. Why do people want snipers nerfed when cloaked shotgunners are much worse.

I honestly think there's less risk to running around invisible than sitting in the redline. When I have been sat in the redline, I've been killed plenty. When I ran around invisible once or twice, I managed to survive for ages!

(But please don't remove cloaks. I find killing a cloaker far more satisfying than killing a scout without one. (not as satisfying as taking out a sentinel with a sniper rifle though)

people want the redline nerfed not the snipers in particular (weather or not they know the difference)

the only problem is that the redline can never change, it cant be moved/adjusted or redesigned.

the only thing you could potentially do is remove wp and stat rewards for killing while your in your own redline, and even that wont really fix the problem as much as it just discourages its use in pub matches

Lets actually take a look at what we are complaining about. Is it that redline snipers are crazy OP and winning ever game if you spam a bunch of them or are we just a little annoyed that we get one shoted in are proto suit once or twice a match.

im still seeing amaar/gallente sentinals sitting 200-300m into the redline...

and by seeing i mean feeling as they dont render without a sniper rifle of your own. ive had to fly dropships at them to get them to render for me since i have zero SP into sniper rifles and cant take out an a/gko with a basic sniper before it ganks me.

their behavior has changed slightly as they will now move around inside the redline pushing closer or moving further back depending on what bases are capped, the thing thats the same however is that they wont leave the redline.

this isnt of course refering to all snipers, just the dedicated redline snipers like wulfgarrd6 who hasnt left the redline in damn near 2 years

have both increased in number and are now more deadly

thanks CCP

Removing WP for killing while in the redline won't work - if you're being redlined, there's not much of an option but to kill in the redline.

I've had to snipe a few people from within my redline because they camp just outside it and headshot you as you try to get into the match.

The maps need changing in their entirety. If the redline was always a flat, empty area and the maps had lots of nice little hidey holes for snipers, then I'm pretty sure that would solve the problem. Or make the redline in a crater so you can't see out of it unless you climb up and skyline yourself, thus clearly showing your position.

not working and not providing rewards are two different things, it will work it just happens to also punish another group unfairly while it does so.

granted if your redlined that badly i suggest sitting in the MCC anyways so its not a big deal if you dont get WP or stats for that kinda matchup

For me, it's that half of the Caldari FW team does this and ends up costing every single bloody match.

I don't mind fighting red-line snipers at all, especially given the new stats make it childishly easy for me to kill them if they bother me enough (Heloooooooooo D-modded charge on a Cloaky!).

But on my team, if there are more then 2 or 3, or if we have all of our side of the map secure and they won't move up, then yeah it bothers me a great deal. *Shrugs*

But hey, I'm not going to tell someone to change their play style, considering I play games solely for my entertainment.

What you are asking for is a clay sculpture when all I have are paintbrushes and a canvas.

Redline properties is something that currently as far as I am aware is not feasible for a hot fix and I wish players would stop thinking it is a possible solution.

The range nerf did seriously though cut into how much deep into the redline immunity they have on several maps and the zoom nerf on the thales removed its rendering immunity from other sniper rifles and one major overall effect is that these snipers are now dying much more frequently than before to other snipers because the op for now has a chance to spawn and plan an approach where the sniper does not have full coverage or dominance.

Maps like manus peak are though still very bad because there is only about 100 meters of shared play room and snipers have about 250+ deep into the zone. Once again problem with the maps themselves. The redline mechanic itself can be seemingly viewed as a poorly designed mechanic as well but also I can challenge that notion saying its a poorly wielded mechanic by the map design team on those maps. Previous incarnates of the redlines on the older maps had lead to redlining and camping, oftel. The newer maps represent what a perfected layout of redlines, map zones, and map lay should look like these places and with current sniper ranges really do force snipers into the field though they may still skirt the edge of area of intended combat there is nothing stopping a cloaker from going up to and laying an RE on their heads to kill them.

not working and not providing rewards are two different things, it will work it just happens to also punish another group unfairly while it does so.

granted if your redlined that badly i suggest sitting in the MCC anyways so its not a big deal if you dont get WP or stats for that kinda matchup