| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tebu Gan
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1209
   |
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm not one to typically do this, but here we go.
Your recent proposals are simply stupidity at it's max. First you indicate that ADS are OP because you yourself can't kill one with swarms, so buff swarms. Ok, sure maybe a slight buff is needed.
Now you feel it necessary to nerf the ROF. Umm, ok. Just ******* remove vehicles *******. I've stuck it out for a long time but with the advent of destiny (which I'm having WAY more fun with) and this crazy balancing act you have decided to go with, I'm done. Things are way more balanced than you think, but you choose to listen to the "BAD PLAYERS".
I played 2 games this weekend, my ADS was denied by a SINGLE swarm launcher, and my tank had little impact due to insane AV out in an OMS. But you continually feel AV needs more buffs. Go PC and see what happens when good players play with balanced suit match ups.
GG ratt, it was a nice try but way to screw the pooch. I'll be sticking with destiny, me and most everyone I've played with on dust. And no, you can't have my isk, I'd rather it sit there and waste away.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
|
Joel II X
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3556
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
See you next week. |
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3460
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
ADS is really OP. Rattati's balance work isn't just, or even primarily, based on his personal experience. CCP has metrics for how weapons, dropsuits, vehicles, etc. are performing, how many are sold, and more. They use a lot of statistics in balancing.
The problem is your ADS was "denied" by a swarm launcher. The question is: Was your ADS killed by a swarm launcher? You should die in an FPS.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4665
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't understand where it's coming from either. I always feel kind of guilty when I break out my AV now. Granted I get over it pretty quick from the 1.7 PTSD I suffer from.
ADS will simply be too expensive to fly (even with the decrease in price) and it'll certainly be too expensive to LEARN how to fly (killing stuff is the hard part).
Level 4 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4665
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:ADS is really OP. Rattati's balance work isn't just, or even primarily, based on his personal experience. CCP has metrics for how weapons, dropsuits, vehicles, etc. are performing, how many are sold, and more. They use a lot of statistics in balancing.
The problem is your ADS was "denied" by a swarm launcher. The question is: Was your ADS killed by a swarm launcher? You should die in an FPS.
If ADS is killable by a single swarm launcher outside of the ADS pilot being incredibly stupid then it simply kills the role.
I guess I've just never seen ADS pilots in pubs having these incredible games. Even when getting stomped I'll find a place and make sure someone is losing some ISK.
The thing about vehicles in pubs is that I don't think they can EVER be balanced vs AV. There are just simply too many solo players and noobs derping things up. If they are balanced for pubs as you are proposing they should be so cheap that you don't worry about losing 4 or 5 a match.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
|
DarthPlagueis TheWise
73
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
hop in a destiny tank and tell me whether or not you're more powerful in dust.
yeah. you're like a ******* omnipotent god in dust. |
Awesome Pantaloons
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
587
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:ADS is really OP. Rattati's balance work isn't just, or even primarily, based on his personal experience. CCP has metrics for how weapons, dropsuits, vehicles, etc. are performing, how many are sold, and more. They use a lot of statistics in balancing.
The problem is your ADS was "denied" by a swarm launcher. The question is: Was your ADS killed by a swarm launcher? You should die in an FPS.
I don't think ADS are OP. o.o I can take one down solo if it's a bad to decent pilot. The pilots that are worth their salt or bother to bring good gunners take several AVs to slay but really only one good swarmer to keep from being effective. That's my experience with them at any rate.
"Awesome Pants don't care. Awesome Pants don't give a s**t."
|
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3464
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:If ADS is killable by a single swarm launcher outside of the ADS pilot being incredibly stupid then it simply kills the role.
A solo role that cannot be killed by another solo player specced in the role intended to counter it should not exist. So if ADSes can't live with balanced gameplay, that's their choice.
Thor Odinson42 wrote:The thing about vehicles in pubs is that I don't think they can EVER be balanced vs AV. There are just simply too many solo players and noobs derping things up. If they are balanced for pubs as you are proposing they should be so cheap that you don't worry about losing 4 or 5 a match.
I have long held that I am entirely okay with a vehicle costing as much as a dropsuit, as long as it's balanced to be as powerful as one. ISK cost is not an excuse to be more powerful than two or three players combined.
And yeah, I inherently believe vehicles are broken, and unfixable in DUST. I have a really strong and sincere hope CCP completely redesigns vehicles for Legion from the ground up with proper roles and counters in mind.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
|
valad II
NoGameNoLife
72
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
I love all the tears. Especially from pilots who were able to stack their skills and fire faster than what was intended. I love 2 & 3 shotting Derps & ADerps. AV took their nerf a while back the same time tanks were buffed. Sorry they broke your crutch. Please use a cup to catch any lil morsels that might drip off your crybaby cheeks. Bye |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4666
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Awesome Pantaloons wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:ADS is really OP. Rattati's balance work isn't just, or even primarily, based on his personal experience. CCP has metrics for how weapons, dropsuits, vehicles, etc. are performing, how many are sold, and more. They use a lot of statistics in balancing.
The problem is your ADS was "denied" by a swarm launcher. The question is: Was your ADS killed by a swarm launcher? You should die in an FPS. I don't think ADS are OP. o.o I can take one down solo if it's a bad to decent pilot. The pilots that are worth their salt or both to bring good gunners take several AVs to slay but really only one good swarmer to keep from being effective. That's my experience with them at any rate.
Exactly, and I don't see the problem in this.
There are literally only a dozen or so guys that I'd consider good ADS pilots too. This seems like the shield extender nerf from months back when armor was king. And the grenade count nerf like 8 months after anyone was complaining.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
|
|
|
Riruodo
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
233
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:ADS will simply be too expensive to fly (even with the decrease in price) and it'll certainly be too expensive to LEARN how to fly (killing stuff is the hard part).
CCP gives 15 (I think) starter LAVs in Battle Academy. What if they did the same thing with Dropships? Sure, they'll crash and burn hard, but I think it would be a good way to get new players to try them out. Might even convince a few of them to go the ADS route.
Utena Tenjou is my prince in shining armor.
|
Tebu Gan
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1210
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:ADS is really OP. Rattati's balance work isn't just, or even primarily, based on his personal experience. CCP has metrics for how weapons, dropsuits, vehicles, etc. are performing, how many are sold, and more. They use a lot of statistics in balancing.
The problem is your ADS was "denied" by a swarm launcher. The question is: Was your ADS killed by a swarm launcher? You should die in an FPS.
Ever see one in a PC match. OP my ass. If "allowed" to be a threat then yeah. But PC aint no pub. And the **** is this with you are supposed to die in an FPS. This isn't COD. Being denied is the same as dying. Either you keep trying and do nothing for the match or you change out to another role.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
|
valad II
NoGameNoLife
72
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Riruodo wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:ADS will simply be too expensive to fly (even with the decrease in price) and it'll certainly be too expensive to LEARN how to fly (killing stuff is the hard part). CCP gives 15 (I think) starter LAVs in Battle Academy. What if they did the same thing with Dropships? Sure, they'll crash and burn hard, but I think it would be a good way to get new players to try them out. Might even convince a few of them to go the ADS route.
There was a newsletter or something to sign up for awhile back that gave you 50 Kali. Recon Drop ships.
Wait it was that pack that was free for a limited time. Came with HAV's & Derps. |
Awesome Pantaloons
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
587
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
valad II wrote:I love all the tears. Especially from pilots who were able to stack their skills and fire faster than what was intended. I love 2 & 3 shotting Derps & ADerps. AV took their nerf a while back the same time tanks were buffed. Sorry they broke your crutch. Please use a cup to catch any lil morsels that might drip off your crybaby cheeks. Bye
I will agree that at higher levels the fire rate is pretty crazy. That going down wouldn't seriously impact ADSs. Not as much as a lot of people think anyway.
"Awesome Pants don't care. Awesome Pants don't give a s**t."
|
Riruodo
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
233
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
valad II wrote:Riruodo wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:ADS will simply be too expensive to fly (even with the decrease in price) and it'll certainly be too expensive to LEARN how to fly (killing stuff is the hard part). CCP gives 15 (I think) starter LAVs in Battle Academy. What if they did the same thing with Dropships? Sure, they'll crash and burn hard, but I think it would be a good way to get new players to try them out. Might even convince a few of them to go the ADS route. There was a newsletter or something to sign up for awhile back that gave you 50 Kali. Recon Drop ships.
awwwww, I swear, vets got all the good stuff. (-_- ;)
Utena Tenjou is my prince in shining armor.
|
Tebu Gan
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1210
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:See you next week.
Lol, don't count on it.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
|
Riruodo
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
233
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Joel II X wrote:See you next week. Lol, don't count on it.
but... but... think of all the stuff you have!! all of the isk! all of the sp! all of the forum likes!! all of the kills!!
Utena Tenjou is my prince in shining armor.
|
valad II
NoGameNoLife
72
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Riruodo wrote:valad II wrote:Riruodo wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:ADS will simply be too expensive to fly (even with the decrease in price) and it'll certainly be too expensive to LEARN how to fly (killing stuff is the hard part). CCP gives 15 (I think) starter LAVs in Battle Academy. What if they did the same thing with Dropships? Sure, they'll crash and burn hard, but I think it would be a good way to get new players to try them out. Might even convince a few of them to go the ADS route. There was a newsletter or something to sign up for awhile back that gave you 50 Kali. Recon Drop ships. awwwww, I swear, vets got all the good stuff. (-_- ;)
This had nothing to do with being a Vet. This was like 2-3 months ago. Maybe longer. All blends together |
valad II
NoGameNoLife
72
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:I'm not one to typically do this, but here we go.
Your recent proposals are simply stupidity at it's max. First you indicate that ADS are OP because you yourself can't kill one with swarms, so buff swarms. Ok, sure maybe a slight buff is needed.
Now you feel it necessary to nerf the ROF. Umm, ok. Just ******* remove vehicles *******. I've stuck it out for a long time but with the advent of destiny (which I'm having WAY more fun with) and this crazy balancing act you have decided to go with, I'm done. Things are way more balanced than you think, but you choose to listen to the "BAD PLAYERS".
I played 2 games this weekend, my ADS was denied by a SINGLE swarm launcher, and my tank had little impact due to insane AV out in an OMS. But you continually feel AV needs more buffs. Go PC and see what happens when good players play with balanced suit match ups.
GG ratt, it was a nice try but way to screw the pooch. I'll be sticking with destiny, me and most everyone I've played with on dust. And no, you can't have my isk, I'd rather it sit there and waste away.
Wait, dont go yet.
Aren't you going to whine and cry for a Respec because they broke your toy? That is the typical behavior. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4667
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:If ADS is killable by a single swarm launcher outside of the ADS pilot being incredibly stupid then it simply kills the role. A solo role that cannot be killed by another solo player specced in the role intended to counter it should not exist. So if ADSes can't live with balanced gameplay, that's their choice. Thor Odinson42 wrote:The thing about vehicles in pubs is that I don't think they can EVER be balanced vs AV. There are just simply too many solo players and noobs derping things up. If they are balanced for pubs as you are proposing they should be so cheap that you don't worry about losing 4 or 5 a match. I have long held that I am entirely okay with a vehicle costing as much as a dropsuit, as long as it's balanced to be as powerful as one. ISK cost is not an excuse to be more powerful than two or three players combined. And yeah, I inherently believe vehicles are broken, and unfixable in DUST. I have a really strong and sincere hope CCP completely redesigns vehicles for Legion from the ground up with proper roles and counters in mind.
They will never be able to balance vehicles vs solo players in pubs.
People need to stop advocating for solo STD/Militia/BPO ISK grinders in pubs and push for a more team play oriented game. Push the better players toward playing in team deploy modes and it should clear the way for people to derp it up in pubs.
The times when vehicles were the most balanced in PC, they were completely and utterly destroying the game for people in pubs.
I know people say we shouldn't balance around ISK, but I don't see a way around it for vehicles. The better players in the game are in squads using teamwork while droves of solo players are licking installation windows in the redline. I don't see how it's possible.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
|
|
|
Riruodo
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
234
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
valad II wrote:This had nothing to do with being a Vet. This was like 2-3 months ago. Maybe longer. All blends together
I haven't been around that long. everyone is a vet to me. (._. )
Utena Tenjou is my prince in shining armor.
|
CharacterNameWasTaken
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
59
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
I actually dont mind a remove respec of the vehicles exept for lavs as transport. Vehicles are in a bad place right now and i want my tank sp back. |
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3467
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:They will never be able to balance vehicles vs solo players in pubs.
People need to stop advocating for solo STD/Militia/BPO ISK grinders in pubs and push for a more team play oriented game. Push the better players toward playing in team deploy modes and it should clear the way for people to derp it up in pubs.
The times when vehicles were the most balanced in PC, they were completely and utterly destroying the game for people in pubs.
I know people say we shouldn't balance around ISK, but I don't see a way around it for vehicles. The better players in the game are in squads using teamwork while droves of solo players are licking installation windows in the redline. I don't see how it's possible.
But since pubs are the primary playstyle, pubs are an important aspect of what to balance for.
I definitely want much higher incentives in FacWar to encourage better players to play there.
ISK balancing can never work, and should never be used. Because as long as some corps have billions of ISK lying around from the passive PC ISK days, they can break the game.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
|
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kyoudai Furinkazan
1207
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 18:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:hop in a destiny tank and tell me whether or not you're more powerful in dust.
yeah. you're like a ******* omnipotent god in dust.
Please , stop being dramatic because it's not that serious .
HAV's in this game are garbage .
I'm not looking to be invincible in any vehicle but vehicle's in this game are just not worth the SP's that it take to make a decent fit .
I spend my time destroying vehicles and I see they are garbage .
The rate of fire change was needed .
50 % rate of fire increase was just too much .
Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
|
valad II
NoGameNoLife
72
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 19:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Seeing that you are leaving I was wondering if you would want to make me an investment loan?
I need to restock up my IAFG. Them pesky ADSs. Plus I just proto'd swarms too. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kyoudai Furinkazan
1208
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 19:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:
They will never be able to balance vehicles vs solo players in pubs.
People need to stop advocating for solo STD/Militia/BPO ISK grinders in pubs and push for a more team play oriented game. Push the better players toward playing in team deploy modes and it should clear the way for people to derp it up in pubs.
The times when vehicles were the most balanced in PC, they were completely and utterly destroying the game for people in pubs.
I know people say we shouldn't balance around ISK, but I don't see a way around it for vehicles. The better players in the game are in squads using teamwork while droves of solo players are licking installation windows in the redline. I don't see how it's possible.
This game should be about choices and not being forced to ream up with anyone or befriend someone to just come out even .
What is this ..??.. , pre-school ???
Some of these players are not the smartest and trying to figure out who's who is another thing in it's self .
You shouldn't be forced to do anything but win in this game .
I play matches and watch players , who are on the same team ... watch each other die on a daily basis , I can drop a vehicle and get it stolen by a team mate , get team killed in FW , place turrets on HAV's and watch players get into my tank and shoot the air and ground and then when we are confronted by another HAV , my turrets have no ammo because these " team mates " used all the ammo shooting at nothing worth while , they used it up on shooting other team mates , the ground and the MCC and yes if I was in a squad then maybe that wouldn't happen or would happen less but the fact of the matter is , you can't rely on anyone other then yourself and forcing every aspect of this game to be team based will drive away more people then it attracts .
People like to have and use their own personalities and not be forced to do anything , much less ... then to co-op with people who are not as serious in winning or focused ... or some that are too serious and don't like to fool around while playing this game .
I'm serious when I play and don't like to fool around , don't know too many who play that way .
Goofing off doesn't get the job done for me .
Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
|
Skippy Longstocking
Paladin Survey Force
Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 19:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
Wow, so many temper-tantrums over this!
You guys are making me feel old.  |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4672
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 20:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:
The better players in the game are in squads using teamwork while droves of solo players are licking installation windows in the redline. I don't see how it's possible.
This game should be about choices and not being forced to team up with anyone or befriend someone to just come out even . You already start off this game on the same team . You've got people who love the friendly fire aspect of this game but your talking about squads , I've been friendly fire stomped by squads in FW . What is this ..??.. , pre-school ??? Some of these players are not the smartest and trying to figure out who's who is another thing in it's self . You shouldn't be forced to do anything but win in this game . I play matches and watch players , who are on the same team ... watch each other die on a daily basis , I can drop a vehicle and get it stolen by a team mate , get team killed in FW , place turrets on HAV's and watch players get into my tank and shoot the air and ground and then when we are confronted by another HAV , my turrets have no ammo because these " team mates " used all the ammo shooting at nothing worth while , they used it up on shooting other team mates , the ground and the MCC and yes if I was in a squad then maybe that wouldn't happen or would happen less but the fact of the matter is , you can't rely on anyone other then yourself and forcing every aspect of this game to be team based will drive away more people then it attracts . People like to have and use their own personalities and not be forced to do anything , much less ... then to co-op with people who are not as serious in winning or focused ... or some that are too serious and don't like to fool around while playing this game . I'm serious when I play and don't like to fool around , don't know too many who play that way . I play solo and I play to win . Don't see what you said there to have much truth behind it . Your story doesn't reflect the community as a whole . Goofing off doesn't get the job done for me .
That's good for you. There are plenty of people who contribute to matches solo. But the VAST majority don't. And they need all the help they can get. For SOOOOOOOOO many players in Dust they haven't looked at what can help them become more successful and adapted.
They come on the forums and they CRYYYYYYY about this or that. When getting in a squad and receiving some reps, passive scans, ammo, transportation, orbitals, etc would make them see Dust in a totally different light.
I don't think solo should be impossible, but it should be noted that solo players are leaving a LOT on the table due to Dust being a team based game.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
|
Tebu Gan
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1212
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 20:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
Riruodo wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Joel II X wrote:See you next week. Lol, don't count on it. but... but... think of all the stuff you have!! all of the isk! all of the sp! all of the forum likes!! all of the kills!!
I know, but I find no more enjoyment from this game. MAYBE, if I got a respec so I could get the hell out of vehicles.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4672
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 20:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
Skippy Longstocking wrote:Wow, so many temper-tantrums over this! You guys are making me feel old.
The OP is actually a very level headed dude. I just know he's been working his butt off to get gud at ADS after being a tanker for a long time.
Old school tankers feel pretty shafted because they lost of lot of the variety and choices they had before and tanks were nerfed to the point that idiots in pubs can deal with them rather easily.
He has dumped a lot of SP and time into ADS and it's discouraging.
It would suck to be a vehicle dude in Dust. It's only really viable in team deploy settings and there is no way to team deploy enough to satisfy your game time.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
|
|
|
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3483
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 20:14:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:I know, but I find no more enjoyment from this game. MAYBE, if I got a respec so I could get the hell out of vehicles.
There was just this big event this weekend where you could get 2 mil SP for free (or 3 mil for pocket change), which is more than enough to get going into a new role. Did you participate?
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
|
Denchlad 7
Dead Man's Game
570
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 20:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
Jesus.
As a pilot (and AVer) even I can see how hideously OP ADS' (especially with the ROF) were. They were only vaguely balanced by their cost, but that wasnt enough.
The nerfs hurt yes, but lowering the hull cost helps massively. Also allows the real pilots to shine through, not the wannabes.
The only person in Dust stupid enough to Proto every single god-damn weapon. 19/19.
|
TH1EFOFSOuLS
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
11
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 20:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
Yup always 10 AVers to 1 tanker. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4673
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 20:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
Denchlad 7 wrote:Jesus.
As a pilot (and AVer) even I can see how hideously OP ADS' (especially with the ROF) were. They were only vaguely balanced by their cost, but that wasnt enough.
The nerfs hurt yes, but lowering the hull cost helps massively. Also allows the real pilots to shine through, not the wannabes.
It's just another kick to the gut for PC players. The ADS has really curbed tank spam in PCs and it makes the strategies very interesting.
Asking CCP to balance around PC (pretty much a completely dead game mode) is a stretch for sure, but the highest level of gameplay is always what the better players are going to look at.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
|
valad II
NoGameNoLife
74
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 20:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Skippy Longstocking wrote:Wow, so many temper-tantrums over this! You guys are making me feel old. The OP is actually a very level headed dude. I just know he's been working his butt off to get gud at ADS after being a tanker for a long time. Old school tankers feel pretty shafted because they lost of lot of the variety and choices they had before and tanks were nerfed to the point that idiots in pubs can deal with them rather easily. He has dumped a lot of SP and time into ADS and it's discouraging. It would suck to be a vehicle dude in Dust. It's only really viable in team deploy settings and there is no way to team deploy enough to satisfy your game time.
So everyone should feel sorry for the OP because the OP saw the next FOTM, ADS with stacked pilot skills. But Big Bad CCP broke his toy. OMG that is so traumatic. |
John Psi
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
Steel Balls Alliance
950
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 20:34:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:First you indicate that ADS are OP because you yourself can't kill one with swarms, so buff swarms. Ok, sure maybe a slight buff is needed.
sry, but NO.
I have 3 (!!!) proto swarm with 2 complex DM in my sqad - 70% of ADS just fly away and BACK AFTER 15 second!!!!
So, lol, my swarms working BY FOCUS!!!
And NO. we no have problems with killing enemy infantry - my swarms fitted to minmatar commando suits!!!
Please support fair play!
|
valad II
NoGameNoLife
74
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 20:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Denchlad 7 wrote:Jesus.
As a pilot (and AVer) even I can see how hideously OP ADS' (especially with the ROF) were. They were only vaguely balanced by their cost, but that wasnt enough.
The nerfs hurt yes, but lowering the hull cost helps massively. Also allows the real pilots to shine through, not the wannabes. It's just another kick to the gut for PC players. The ADS has really curbed tank spam in PCs and it makes the strategies very interesting. Asking CCP to balance around PC (pretty much a completely dead game mode) is a stretch for sure, but the highest level of gameplay is always what the better players are going to look at.
Sorry but that is a load of sh!t. Tanks have slowly disappeared from PC becuz they suck now. Maybe you might see some, but then it becomes just a worthless trading of tanks. The tankers have a pizzing contest of who can pop who. Most PC's take place on the same boring map, where tanks are irrelevant. Scouts, cloaks, & Derps can do everything better than tanks. Drops ships had this coming and well deserved. |
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3492
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 20:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:It's just another kick to the gut for PC players. The ADS has really curbed tank spam in PCs and it makes the strategies very interesting.
Asking CCP to balance around PC (pretty much a completely dead game mode) is a stretch for sure, but the highest level of gameplay is always what the better players are going to look at.
Blunt reality is allowing the game to suck for the majority of players just to keep things balanced for PC isn't going to work. Because even those few people playing PC probably spend more of their time in pubs.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
|
hfderrtgvcd
500
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 21:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Denchlad 7 wrote:Jesus.
As a pilot (and AVer) even I can see how hideously OP ADS' (especially with the ROF) were. They were only vaguely balanced by their cost, but that wasnt enough.
The nerfs hurt yes, but lowering the hull cost helps massively. Also allows the real pilots to shine through, not the wannabes. It's just another kick to the gut for PC players. The ADS has really curbed tank spam in PCs and it makes the strategies very interesting. Asking CCP to balance around PC (pretty much a completely dead game mode) is a stretch for sure, but the highest level of gameplay is always what the better players are going to look at.
Are you sure you've actually played pc? I was about to comment on how ADS's are ruining pc. My corp refuses to play without at least two ads pilots. They always have at least 15 kill and a 4 kdr. At least you can hide from tanks in the city. There's literally nowhere an ads can't kill you.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4675
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 21:25:00 -
[40] - Quote
valad II wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Skippy Longstocking wrote:Wow, so many temper-tantrums over this! You guys are making me feel old. The OP is actually a very level headed dude. I just know he's been working his butt off to get gud at ADS after being a tanker for a long time. Old school tankers feel pretty shafted because they lost of lot of the variety and choices they had before and tanks were nerfed to the point that idiots in pubs can deal with them rather easily. He has dumped a lot of SP and time into ADS and it's discouraging. It would suck to be a vehicle dude in Dust. It's only really viable in team deploy settings and there is no way to team deploy enough to satisfy your game time. So everyone should feel sorry for the OP because the OP saw the next FOTM, ADS with stacked pilot skills. But Big Bad CCP broke his toy. OMG that is so traumatic.
Uhhhh, no, that's not what I said at all.
ADS will never be FOTM because it's hard as **** to do.m
Level 4 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
|
|
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4676
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 21:27:00 -
[41] - Quote
valad II wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Denchlad 7 wrote:Jesus.
As a pilot (and AVer) even I can see how hideously OP ADS' (especially with the ROF) were. They were only vaguely balanced by their cost, but that wasnt enough.
The nerfs hurt yes, but lowering the hull cost helps massively. Also allows the real pilots to shine through, not the wannabes. It's just another kick to the gut for PC players. The ADS has really curbed tank spam in PCs and it makes the strategies very interesting. Asking CCP to balance around PC (pretty much a completely dead game mode) is a stretch for sure, but the highest level of gameplay is always what the better players are going to look at. Sorry but that is a load of sh!t. Tanks have slowly disappeared from PC becuz they suck now. Maybe you might see some, but then it becomes just a worthless trading of tanks. The tankers have a pizzing contest of who can pop who. Most PC's take place on the same boring map, where tanks are irrelevant. Scouts, cloaks, & Derps can do everything better than tanks. Drops ships had this coming and well deserved.
Tanks have disappeared from PC because they were nerfed for over performance in pubs.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4676
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 21:32:00 -
[42] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Denchlad 7 wrote:Jesus.
As a pilot (and AVer) even I can see how hideously OP ADS' (especially with the ROF) were. They were only vaguely balanced by their cost, but that wasnt enough.
The nerfs hurt yes, but lowering the hull cost helps massively. Also allows the real pilots to shine through, not the wannabes. It's just another kick to the gut for PC players. The ADS has really curbed tank spam in PCs and it makes the strategies very interesting. Asking CCP to balance around PC (pretty much a completely dead game mode) is a stretch for sure, but the highest level of gameplay is always what the better players are going to look at. Are you sure you've actually played pc? I was about to comment on how ADS's are ruining pc. My corp refuses to play without at least two ads pilots. They always have at least 15 kill and a 4 kdr. At least you can hide from tanks in the city. There's literally nowhere an ads can't kill you.
it makes the high ground important for sure. I don't agree that they are ruining PC at all.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
|
Glyd Path
Nec Tributis
129
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 21:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:GG ratt, it was a nice try but way to screw the pooch. I'll be sticking with destiny, me and most everyone I've played with on dust.
I played this weekend. Both characters, a CEO with 5M unspent SP is funny. But, a python was taken out with a OHK by a plasma cannon. One shot, dead and gone.
I did my 11 games with CCP and their famous math abilities taken into account. Past that of all my long time dust companions there was one online for an hour or so. None of my vehicle friends (tanker or ADS) showed up. No amount of SP will fix what is wrong with the game. Those that played consistently would rather spend money on a non-F2P game, Destiny if you must know.
The only reason I have to turn my PS3 on is to play Dragons Dogma, which I finally got.
BTW, the only reason CCP Rattiti doesn't remove vehicles is because then CCP would have to refund the SP. And that ain't happening. 
Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
|
Joel II X
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3569
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 04:46:00 -
[44] - Quote
Glyd Path wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:GG ratt, it was a nice try but way to screw the pooch. I'll be sticking with destiny, me and most everyone I've played with on dust. I played this weekend. Both characters, a CEO with 5M unspent SP is funny. But, a python was taken out with a OHK by a plasma cannon. One shot, dead and gone. I did my 11 games with CCP and their famous math abilities taken into account. Past that of all my long time dust companions there was one online for an hour or so. None of my vehicle friends (tanker or ADS) showed up. No amount of SP will fix what is wrong with the game. Those that played consistently would rather spend money on a non-F2P game, Destiny if you must know. The only reason I have to turn my PS3 on is to play Dragons Dogma, which I finally got. BTW, the only reason CCP Rattiti doesn't remove vehicles is because then CCP would have to refund the SP. And that ain't happening.
If an ADS gets hit by a PLC, they should blow up no matter what. Seriously... |
medomai grey
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
983
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 06:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:A solo role that cannot be killed by another solo player specced in the role intended to counter it should not exist. So if ADSes can't live with balanced gameplay, that's their choice. Completely agree. Only pi$s poor pilots support the idea that it should require team work to down 1 player.
Soraya Xel wrote:ADS is really OP. Rattati's balance work isn't just, or even primarily, based on his personal experience. CCP has metrics for how weapons, dropsuits, vehicles, etc. are performing, how many are sold, and more. They use a lot of statistics in balancing.
The problem is your ADS was "denied" by a swarm launcher. The question is: Was your ADS killed by a swarm launcher? You should die in an FPS. I'm sure I've talked about this before but, the un-ideal interactions between swarms and dropships alone does not make the ADS OP.
What is OP is stacking ROF bonus. But instead of fixing the actual problem of bonus stacking, CCP Rattati opted for the nuke by greatly decreasing the ROF bonus; which is mandatory for taking out other vehicles. I don't need a ROF bonus to kill infantry.
PS: While I don't completely agree with you, I commend you for continuing to communicate on the forums.
What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
|
Omega Black Zero
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
106
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 06:22:00 -
[46] - Quote
I'd wait until the nerf is actually out, and see how much of a difference it actually makes. You're crying about milk that has yet to spill, and it might not even be the majority of the milk that gets wasted if you catch my drift. |
Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
1636
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 07:38:00 -
[47] - Quote
Everything should be balanced for PC, not solo pubbies
This is coming from a solo pubbie, ex PC vet
Delt for CPM2
CPM1 MISSION : FAILED
Moss-delt on skype
|
The Master Race
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 07:43:00 -
[48] - Quote
It will help with the stacking issue as well ran into some guys stacking earlier dropped me in seconds.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
|
The Master Race
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 07:48:00 -
[49] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:valad II wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Denchlad 7 wrote:Jesus.
As a pilot (and AVer) even I can see how hideously OP ADS' (especially with the ROF) were. They were only vaguely balanced by their cost, but that wasnt enough.
The nerfs hurt yes, but lowering the hull cost helps massively. Also allows the real pilots to shine through, not the wannabes. It's just another kick to the gut for PC players. The ADS has really curbed tank spam in PCs and it makes the strategies very interesting. Asking CCP to balance around PC (pretty much a completely dead game mode) is a stretch for sure, but the highest level of gameplay is always what the better players are going to look at. Sorry but that is a load of sh!t. Tanks have slowly disappeared from PC becuz they suck now. Maybe you might see some, but then it becomes just a worthless trading of tanks. The tankers have a pizzing contest of who can pop who. Most PC's take place on the same boring map, where tanks are irrelevant. Scouts, cloaks, & Derps can do everything better than tanks. Drops ships had this coming and well deserved. Tanks have disappeared from PC because they were nerfed for over performance in pubs.
Are you sure it wasn't because of pilot stacking vs large targets?
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3036
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 08:02:00 -
[50] - Quote
Balancing sround the 1 in 100 players privileged to play in PC ignores the input of the other 99 players who are also playing and paying for the game. Thus it is the idiot ball of balancing metrics. |
|
|
Keeriam Miray
R 0 N 1 N
350
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 09:12:00 -
[51] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:ADS is really OP. Rattati's balance work isn't just, or even primarily, based on his personal experience. CCP has metrics for how weapons, dropsuits, vehicles, etc. are performing, how many are sold, and more. They use a lot of statistics in balancing.
The problem is your ADS was "denied" by a swarm launcher. The question is: Was your ADS killed by a swarm launcher? You should die in an FPS.
Yeah CCP & CMP doing their job... but doing it in wrong way is nothing more than simple monkey work. Collecting data based on initial broken or lack of any logic game mechanics, will lead into more broken things & completely stupid gameplay. It's doesn't matter how many data or statistics will be collected, if maps & individual playstyle (also in matchmaking) are not included.
ADS was just an experiment, hover based flying vehicle with "rock on a rope" flying mechanics & map design, basicaly not designed to avoid or somehow outmaneuver SWARMs. Infantry can swap their fittings almost at any time or rage spawn with AV weapons. SWARMs follow your exact flypath, that cannot be currently countered by using maneuvers or structures (we don't have such). ADS don't have any countermeasures, except afterburner for quick escape as possibly fast, high & far.
Adjusting numbers & stats of any item in Dust, won't fix problems with maps.
Soraya Xel wrote:A solo role that cannot be killed by another solo player specced in the role intended to counter it should not exist.
Oh dear... we have sumo redline snipers that completely immune to counter sniping SINCE CBT, & we will still have them after Delta fix. There is simple solution to that... but that is too hard for CCP & CPM (there is no weapon + dmg mods + skills that can do enough dmg to kill bricked proto sentinel in limited time before their run to cover).
Key to fixing & balancing (vehicles, sniping, etc... ) Dust lying in complete rework & redesign of maps. Also in some bugged mechanics that we have & CCP aware of for over 2 years.
Facts of ignorance & stupidity that cannot be denied is beyond all imagination....  Don't accept it as personal or general offence/rage, it's hard to just sit & quietly watching that game which STILL can be fixed & be totally awesome, are dying...
-í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16508
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 09:36:00 -
[52] - Quote
So in your opinion where should ADS KDR be at?
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Advanced Large Railgun =// Unlocked
|
IG8T8
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
20
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 09:45:00 -
[53] - Quote
Do you not understand? these pilots are GODS. We infantry are mere ANTS they can barely SEE. Shooting back is a mark of defiance and punishable by OHK DEATH by MIGHTY WRATH OF THE ALMIGHTY SMALL MISSILE or RAILGUN (but not blaster) TURRET OF RIGHTEOUS VENGEANCE.
KNOW your place infantry. Your SKILL is PATHETIC. Staring at the MIGHTY PRESENCE of an ADS in the sky while your NO SKILL SWARMS lock on is a BLESSING.
Their use is a SYMBOL of your AWE, it is not meant to cause WORRY to an IMMORTAL BEING OF GREAT ISK AND SP INVESTMENT.
It its your FATE to die by the RANDOMLY SPAMMED MISSLE of JUSTICE (enemy infantry may also strike you down due to your sheer insubordination). |
Keeriam Miray
R 0 N 1 N
350
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 09:58:00 -
[54] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:So in your opinion where should ADS KDR be at?
KDR is a personal representative of your OWN skills, regardless of chosen role in game and cannot be adjusted. Limited only by YOUR intelligence & creativity. KDR should not be ever used as statistical data.
Do not confuse it with mechanics that can be abused, glitch & bug using for unfair personal, squad ,corp advantage, which is one of the main problems in Dust.
-í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16508
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 10:05:00 -
[55] - Quote
Keeriam Miray wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:So in your opinion where should ADS KDR be at? KDR is a personal representative of your OWN skills, regardless of chosen role in game and cannot be adjusted. Limited only by YOUR intelligence & creativity. KDR should not be ever used as statistical data. Do not confuse it with mechanics that can be abused, glitch & bug using for unfair personal, squad ,corp advantage, which is one of the main problems in Dust.
So according to your logic other players should be able to keep the ADS game wide average KDR in check right and keeping in the very same ball park as HAVs and LAVs???
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Advanced Large Railgun =// Unlocked
|
Keeriam Miray
R 0 N 1 N
350
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 10:59:00 -
[56] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:So according to your logic other players should be able to keep the ADS game wide average KDR in check right and keeping in the very same ball park as HAVs and LAVs???
Yes, there will be few ones that will be realy good at piloting, sniping, slaying, etc... better that anyone else. Nerfing their "weapons" will punish their playstyle & motivations to play this game. You can't nerf real life just because YOU don't like something or don't agree with.
If few players (than 90-95% of player base) are good with RR, and completly destroying anyone, espacialy with good squad - it's all ok.
When RR is 90-95% of all time in killfeed, used over any other rifles (AR - gallente)... then something certainly wrong in balancing.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Which once again begs the question where should ADS KDR be at?
There is no limit to KDR, it depends how smart ppl that trying to counter pilot, or how bad is that pilot  Current AV weapons don't require any skills in comparison for piloting ADS. SWARMs are lock & launch, FGs point & click.
Pilots need to avoid buildings, other dropship (friendly too), align & aim at ground targets, fight with camera at low altitude or between buildings. Dropships are loud as ****, infantry can prepare & camp for strike without being noticed by pilot. 2-3 of any AV weapons with simultaneous launch/strike can destroy almost anything.
In my personal opinion pilots suffer enough, but current dropships with their design & mechanics shouldn't exist at all. I came to Dust generally to pilot air vehicles, & you know how i end up.
-í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16508
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 11:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
Keeriam Miray wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:So according to your logic other players should be able to keep the ADS game wide average KDR in check right and keeping in the very same ball park as HAVs and LAVs??? Yes, there will be few ones that will be realy good at piloting, sniping, slaying, etc... better that anyone else. Nerfing their "weapons" will punish their playstyle & motivations to play this game. You can't nerf real life just because YOU don't like something or don't agree with. If few players (than 90-95% of player base) are good with RR, and completly destroying anyone, espacialy with good squad - it's all ok. When RR is 90-95% of all time in killfeed, used over any other rifles (AR - gallente)... then something certainly wrong in balancing. Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Which once again begs the question where should ADS KDR be at? There is no limit to KDR, it depends how smart ppl that trying to counter pilot, or how bad is that pilot Current AV weapons don't require any skills in comparison for piloting ADS. SWARMs are lock & launch, FGs piont & click. Pilots need to avoid buildings, other dropship (friendly too), align & aim at ground targets, fight with camera at low altitude or between buildings. Dropships are loud as ****, infantry can prepare & camp for strike without being noticed by pilot. 2-3 of any AV weapons with simultaneous launch/strike can destroy almost anything. In my personal opinion pilots suffer enough, but current dropships with their design & mechanics shouldn't exist at all. I came to Dust generally to pilot air vehicles, & you know how i end up.
So lets say the random fps game wide average is about 5 as a whole and individual platforms.
Then you got this one thing, only one thing, its KDR is into the 100 despite being a 'high' skill object.
Is this acceptable?
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Advanced Large Railgun =// Unlocked
|
Operative 1125 Lokaas
True Companion Planetary Requisitions
382
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 11:14:00 -
[58] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:If ADS is killable by a single swarm launcher outside of the ADS pilot being incredibly stupid then it simply kills the role. A solo role that cannot be killed by another solo player specced in the role intended to counter it should not exist. So if ADSes can't live with balanced gameplay, that's their choice. Thor Odinson42 wrote:The thing about vehicles in pubs is that I don't think they can EVER be balanced vs AV. There are just simply too many solo players and noobs derping things up. If they are balanced for pubs as you are proposing they should be so cheap that you don't worry about losing 4 or 5 a match. I have long held that I am entirely okay with a vehicle costing as much as a dropsuit, as long as it's balanced to be as powerful as one. ISK cost is not an excuse to be more powerful than two or three players combined. And yeah, I inherently believe vehicles are broken, and unfixable in DUST. I have a really strong and sincere hope CCP completely redesigns vehicles for Legion from the ground up with proper roles and counters in mind.
No, a vehicle should not be the same as one infantry. Why? Because it is not infantry. It is a vehicle. A vehicle can not do what infantry can do, which is run and jump and hide. It is trading maneuverability and flexibility for heavy firepower and defense. A tank has to sit there, a big target to do anything. One person being able to kill a tank or ADS makes everyone speccing into the FOTM AV way too appealing and too easy to do.
What needs to exist are powerful counters such as installation cannons being more powerful yet fewer on the field but in effective locations. Better yet should be player owned, racial based artillery units.
These would be limited like installation cannons but effective as a one player counter. They would be limited by lack of movement and amount allowed at any one time as well as how long before another one can be called in.
One infantry with AV, being able to be so mobile is just too easy a counter. It would be ok if you had that one guy that may or may not be on the field. It doesn't happen like that. AV being an easy FOTM counter makes everybody field it all the time. This happened before. Also, Nyain San anyone?
THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
192
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 11:22:00 -
[59] - Quote
DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:hop in a destiny tank and tell me whether or not you're more powerful in dust.
yeah. you're like a ******* omnipotent god in dust.
And that tank gas no value nor does it cost you anything.
TTK in destiny is instantaneous they can do that and not ruin they're game because it's completely different type of game..
You should be able to run flawless in dust
Because each death costs isk..and risk vs reward in this game is squelched to promote aurum purchases
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3040
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 11:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
AV is not FOTM.
AV proliferation is a DIRECT RESULT of HAVs having their "time of glory" being nigh unto unstoppable. Don't blame this on FOTM. It is a direct outgrowth of the Infantry players communally deciding they will not be your victims.
Now that HAVs can be killed by dedicated AV the HAV players are now few. Because the flavor chasers decided that enemies who can efficiently and effectively fight back are not fun to fight.
Now ADS have their "time of glory" and again, the infantry community at large is sick of it. AV gunners spend their ISK and SP with the intent and expectation that they can counter and kill you. AV gunners accept that if they make one mistake, their prototype dropsuit dies.
It is really not uncommon for a vehicle hunter to lose 70,000 ISK for an advanced dropsuit because all vehicles are balanced against prototype AV. 140,000 for my AV fits.
Its not uncommon for AV gunners to die 5-8 times trying to hunt vehicles. That's anywhere between 500k-1m ISK FOR the ability to kill your vehicles.
Sure you aren't necessarily the one landing the kills.
But the scouts and assaults run us down and butcher us. The HMG heavies go through us like a child on a pixie stix. The HAVs actually do kill us trying to fight.
So do tell me. Why is it fair that you, the dropship pilot should be exempt from similar risks when we have specced our skills and spent our ISK specifically to torch you down? |
|
|
Keeriam Miray
R 0 N 1 N
350
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:01:00 -
[61] - Quote
Idk why the hell you obsessed or trying to cling to that kdr... it's just doesn't make sense. Some ppl will have high KDR (regardless of chosen role) no matter what, even if you nerf absolutely everything in game. It's completly diffrent story if you talking about certain item effectivess (like RR KDR over all other rifles)... but you're not.
I'm saying that main problem is in map & architecture (buildings) design, that not including every role in the game to be more or less viable (especially on certain maps). But MM will throw you on RANDOM maps, where you can be totaly useless as dedicated ADS pilot or sniper, despite of good MM between teams & squads. Solo play style should be viable. Being in squad automaticaly raising your effectiveness & statistics, even if you don't deserve it.
Creating a decent balanced maps will almost auto balance everything else, or there will be simple and obvious solutions. For example Manus Peak should be completly removed (or redesigned & expanded), it's almost totaly redzone small map with tiny fight area.
Currently CCP trying balance MM & items over existing maps, mechanics & most players will agree that they are bad (maps & mechanics ). Creating restrictions (based on forum whining, whine enough and you will get your buff or nerf) where they shouldn't be & don't do such where is must be done long time ago.
-í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
|
Skippy Longstocking
Paladin Survey Force
Amarr Empire
37
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:16:00 -
[62] - Quote
Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:If ADS is killable by a single swarm launcher outside of the ADS pilot being incredibly stupid then it simply kills the role. A solo role that cannot be killed by another solo player specced in the role intended to counter it should not exist. So if ADSes can't live with balanced gameplay, that's their choice. Thor Odinson42 wrote:The thing about vehicles in pubs is that I don't think they can EVER be balanced vs AV. There are just simply too many solo players and noobs derping things up. If they are balanced for pubs as you are proposing they should be so cheap that you don't worry about losing 4 or 5 a match. I have long held that I am entirely okay with a vehicle costing as much as a dropsuit, as long as it's balanced to be as powerful as one. ISK cost is not an excuse to be more powerful than two or three players combined. And yeah, I inherently believe vehicles are broken, and unfixable in DUST. I have a really strong and sincere hope CCP completely redesigns vehicles for Legion from the ground up with proper roles and counters in mind. No, a vehicle should not be the same as one infantry. Why? Because it is not infantry. It is a vehicle. A vehicle can not do what infantry can do, which is run and jump and hide. It is trading maneuverability and flexibility for heavy firepower and defense. A tank has to sit there, a big target to do anything. One person being able to kill a tank or ADS makes everyone speccing into the FOTM AV way too appealing and too easy to do. What needs to exist are powerful counters such as installation cannons being more powerful yet fewer on the field but in effective locations. Better yet should be player owned, racial based artillery units. These would be limited like installation cannons but effective as a one player counter. They would be limited by lack of movement and amount allowed at any one time as well as how long before another one can be called in. One infantry with AV, being able to be so mobile is just too easy a counter. It would be ok if you had that one guy that may or may not be on the field. It doesn't happen like that. AV being an easy FOTM counter makes everybody field it all the time. This happened before. Also, Nyain San anyone?
Nor can infantry do what a vehicle can do: Fly (in the case of Dropships), immunity to ALL regular infantry weapons, the "extra-life" ability to simply jump out and avoid death to continue fighting when taking lethal damage, etc.
They both have their pros and cons. Because they are different, and have different abilities, is no reason for there to be imbalance between the two. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16511
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:19:00 -
[63] - Quote
Keeriam Miray wrote:Idk why the hell you obsessed or trying to cling to that kdr... it's just doesn't make sense. Some ppl will have high KDR (regardless of chosen role) no matter what, even if you nerf absolutely everything in game. It's completly diffrent story if you talking about certain item effectivess (like RR KDR over all other rifles)... but you're not. I'm saying that main problem is in map & architecture (buildings) design, that not including every role in the game to be more or less viable (especially on certain maps). But MM will throw you on RANDOM maps, where you can be totaly useless as dedicated ADS pilot or sniper, despite of good MM between teams & squads. Solo play style should be viable. Being in squad automaticaly raising your effectiveness & statistics, even if you don't deserve it. Creating a decent balanced maps will almost auto balance everything else, or there will be simple and obvious solutions. For example Manus Peak should be completly removed (or redesigned & expanded), it's almost totaly redzone small map with tiny fight area. Currently CCP trying balance MM & items over existing maps, mechanics & most players will agree that they are bad (maps & mechanics ). Creating restrictions (based on forum whining, whine enough and you will get your buff or nerf) where they shouldn't be & don't do such where is must be done long time ago.
Some people having high KDR
is not the same as
Some roles having high KDR
Secondly Forums usually puts reason behind the numbers; while numbers may not lie they don't tell the story on what is going on on the ground.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Advanced Large Railgun =// Unlocked
|
Keeriam Miray
R 0 N 1 N
350
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:22:00 -
[64] - Quote
Skippy Longstocking wrote:ability to simply jump out and...
rammed by your own dropship 
-í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
|
Atiim
12417
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:24:00 -
[65] - Quote
This thread has really been educational.
As in, it taught me who doesn't actually play PC.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
|
Bahirae Serugiusu
Vendetta Reactionary Force
128
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:25:00 -
[66] - Quote
What the hell is so bad about nerfing the rate of fire on ADS!? You aren't nerfing hp or anything that would make it easier for AV to kill you! Odds are if a forge gunner or swarm launcher has a lock on you then it doesn't matter what your rate of fire is! |
Banjo Robertson
Evzones
Public.Disorder.
271
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:27:00 -
[67] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Stuff you said
Dunno why people post these, if you wana go just go, Im sure your friends will miss you or jsut play other games with you, and people who don't know you really wont care. |
Skippy Longstocking
Paladin Survey Force
Amarr Empire
37
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:28:00 -
[68] - Quote
Keeriam Miray wrote:Skippy Longstocking wrote:ability to simply jump out and... rammed by your own dropship
This doesn't happen every time (unless you're careless or stupid), so it's still a pretty big advantage that infantry doesn't enjoy. |
Keeriam Miray
R 0 N 1 N
351
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:31:00 -
[69] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Some roles having high KDR
Well i said already that ADS shouldn't exist in their current form  they were supposed to be removed & that should be done already. Replacing them with NORMAL Assault Ships, with proper stats, controls & mechanics.
-í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
|
NAV HIV
The Generals
2137
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:31:00 -
[70] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:I'm not one to typically do this, but here we go.
Your recent proposals are simply stupidity at it's max. First you indicate that ADS are OP because you yourself can't kill one with swarms, so buff swarms. Ok, sure maybe a slight buff is needed.
Now you feel it necessary to nerf the ROF. Umm, ok. Just ******* remove vehicles *******. I've stuck it out for a long time but with the advent of destiny (which I'm having WAY more fun with) and this crazy balancing act you have decided to go with, I'm done. Things are way more balanced than you think, but you choose to listen to the "BAD PLAYERS".
I played 2 games this weekend, my ADS was denied by a SINGLE swarm launcher, and my tank had little impact due to insane AV out in an OMS. But you continually feel AV needs more buffs. Go PC and see what happens when good players play with balanced suit match ups.
GG ratt, it was a nice try but way to screw the pooch. I'll be sticking with destiny, me and most everyone I've played with on dust. And no, you can't have my isk, I'd rather it sit there and waste away.
Vehicles in Ambush. You should've left that part out from the Post.
Tbh i know what you mean. They keep changing way too many things based on pubs and QQ threads. Swarms needed a slight buff. But they should've kept the ADS and Vehicles the way it was.
Everytime they do this. If you buff something and nerf the other, it would only create more QQ threads. |
|
|
Keeriam Miray
R 0 N 1 N
351
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:36:00 -
[71] - Quote
Skippy Longstocking wrote:This doesn't happen every time
It shouldn't happen at all on air vehicles, in real life there is proper ejection sys. on any military air vehicles.
-í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
|
Skippy Longstocking
Paladin Survey Force
Amarr Empire
37
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:43:00 -
[72] - Quote
Keeriam Miray wrote:Skippy Longstocking wrote:This doesn't happen every time It shouldn't happen at all on air vehicles, in real life there is proper ejection sys. on any military air vehicles.
Irrelevant. This is a bug, not a balance issue.
Even if it is inconsistent, it's still an advantage.
I'm sure most infantry would give their left nut to suddenly pop up with full health and ready to continue fighting, even if it was only one in every five times that they're killed. |
Keeriam Miray
R 0 N 1 N
351
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:51:00 -
[73] - Quote
Skippy Longstocking wrote:This is a bug
Oh no, it's not a bug... it's "by design" (lack of it actually). I call it "lazy game developer".
-í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4684
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 18:54:00 -
[74] - Quote
Atiim wrote:This thread has really been educational.
As in, it taught me who doesn't actually play PC.
I assume that is directed at me and you are correct that I don't get to PC as much as I'd like. The times fall during family time for the most part. Not just that but I am not a killer in any way shape or form. I get pulled in if I'm around because I've been around a long time, but there are better logis in our corp than me. I'm not too proud to sit for better options.
However I am aware of the meta and I participate enough to know. ADS is vital to winning PC for sure. I just like dropships being an intregal part of PC besides running people into the city as fast as possible and dropping a FG off to spam a point (that was a long time ago).
ADS went from nothing to being critical. I was pushing to try out ADS in PC when they weren't very good just because I liked the fact that one dude could be on uplink duty and get some kills without needing a gunner. I didn't care if we lost 10 of them. Michael J Fox Richards was the first we let into PC as an ADS pilot and he went 33/0 in his first match! The dude left the corp and I guess quit Dust, sucks because I liked that guy.
With tanks you really couldn't force a team into AV if they had the city on lock down, but with ADS you can harrass them enough that some of the scouts and HMGs might switch to AV. In other words I think it opens up more versatility.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
|
John Psi
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
Steel Balls Alliance
953
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 19:52:00 -
[75] - Quote
Keeriam Miray wrote:SWARMs are lock & launch, FGs point & click. lol, and have no result in 90% cases.
fly safe.
Please support fair play!
|
DarthPlagueis TheWise
99
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 14:36:00 -
[76] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:hop in a destiny tank and tell me whether or not you're more powerful in dust.
yeah. you're like a ******* omnipotent god in dust. Please , stop being dramatic because it's not that serious . HAV's in this game are garbage . I'm not looking to be invincible in any vehicle but vehicle's in this game are just not worth the SP's that it take to make a decent fit . I spend my time destroying vehicles and I see they are garbage . The rate of fire change was needed . 50 % rate of fire increase was just too much .
my missle tanker character just got buffed so... up yours? |
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |