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Remove explosive resistance from Heavies.

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KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 616	Posted - 2014.09.18 21:48:00 - [1] - Quote Remove explosive resistance from Heavies.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2835	Posted - 2014.09.18 22:12:00 - [2] - Quote Why?
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 616	Posted - 2014.09.18 22:50:00 - [3] - Quote Because it makes the basically immune to mass drivers.
hfderrtgvcd 422	Posted - 2014.09.18 23:10:00 - [4] - Quote The resistance only applies to splash damage, so if you hit them with a direct shot it will do full damage. It shouldn't be too hard considering their massive hitboxes. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2836	Posted - 2014.09.18 23:27:00 - [5] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: The resistance only applies to splash damage, so if you hit them with a direct shot it will do full damage. It shouldn't be too hard considering their massive hitboxes. pretty much this. Fatties are slow and easy to hit. Kinda like the plasma cannon vs. a heavy. either you instapop the heavy or he annihilates you while you reload.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13327	Posted - 2014.09.18 23:33:00 - [6] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Because it makes the basically immune to mass drivers. Amarr and Gallente should really be the only races with a Sentinel bonus to Explosives. Amarr bonus being Primary Explosives Resistance, Minor Projectile Damage Bonus Gallente being Primary Hybrid-Rail, Minor Explosives. I mean Explosives Resistance is actually the highest resistance value Amarrian Armour vessels have @ T2. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 311	Posted - 2014.09.18 23:56:00 - [7] - Quote Sounds like some 1 survived a RE, turned around and insta blapped your face with a burst HMG. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2839	Posted - 2014.09.19 00:03:00 - [8] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: Sounds like some 1 survived a RE, turned around and insta blapped your face with a burst HMG. Not even a proto bricktanked sentinel survives anything but basic RE. with a sliver of health left.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2839	Posted - 2014.09.19 00:05:00 - [9] - Quote True Adamance wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Because it makes the basically immune to mass drivers. Amarr and Gallente should really be the only races with a Sentinel bonus to Explosives. Amarr bonus being Primary Explosives Resistance, Minor Projectile Damage Bonus Gallente being Primary Hybrid-Rail, Minor Explosives. I mean Explosives Resistance is actually the highest resistance value Amarrian Armour vessels have @ T2. it's splash resistance, not explosive resistance. All sentinels have this feature, because they're so pitifully easy to catch in AoE hits. Look at the RE spam for proof of just HOW easy it is.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7592	Posted - 2014.09.19 00:07:00 - [10] - Quote True Adamance wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Because it makes the basically immune to mass drivers. Amarr and Gallente should really be the only races with a Sentinel bonus to Explosives. Amarr bonus being Primary Explosives Resistance, Minor Projectile Damage Bonus Gallente being Primary Hybrid-Rail, Minor Explosives. I mean Explosives Resistance is actually the highest resistance value Amarrian Armour vessels have @ T2. But that would mean that you're using...Gasp Lore to balance this game! How dare you! You know how many console player forum trash would lose their **** if they knew you wanted to base this game on ideals that work perfectly fine in another game with similar defense mechanics.... Shame on you! Poor humor aside this is a fantastic idea. CCP Needs to get away from the extremely lazy idea of giving blanket bonuses for everything. Sure there can be the same bonuses but there are some blanket bonuses in the game that just shouldn't have been for everybody for the sake of balance. The previous Assault Bonus for example, really only benefited shield suits. (inb4 "that helps armor suits too" No, not as much as it did shields) The other bonus Is the overall reload speed, I feel that's great for Gallente and Caldari but I feel there could be something better for Minmatar and Amarr. The last is the one you mentioned is and that's the unfair bonus to explosives with shield Sentinels as well, this is very similar to the Problem of the Logistics LAV from a long time ago. For those that do not know the Logistics LAV have a huge Damage Resistance value which made it extremely hard for AV to kill them. Keep in mind that AV back then was mostly just explosives so that meant that shield LLAVs were godly and could rarely be taken down. Sorry for the rambling but I was just trying to prove a point. Blanket Bonuses rarely work for all suits common bonuses sure, that's fine but Blanket bonuses are not good for balance. Something's wrong when you regret Things that haven't happened yet

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13329	Posted - 2014.09.19 00:11:00 - [11] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: True Adamance wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Because it makes the basically immune to mass drivers. Amarr and Gallente should really be the only races with a Sentinel bonus to Explosives. Amarr bonus being Primary Explosives Resistance, Minor Projectile Damage Bonus Gallente being Primary Hybrid-Rail, Minor Explosives. I mean Explosives Resistance is actually the highest resistance value Amarrian Armour vessels have @ T2. But that would mean that you're using...Gasp Lore to balance this game! How dare you! You know how many console player forum trash would lose their **** if they knew you wanted to base this game on ideals that work perfectly fine in another game with similar defence mechanics.... Shame on you! I feel ashamed of myself....... kicks a can into the curb "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires"* -Kador Ouryon
Michael Arck 5617	Posted - 2014.09.19 00:54:00 - [12] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Because it makes the basically immune to mass drivers. LOL! No. Sentinels are designed to take on heavier firepower and resistance to the explosives...cause that's what Sentinels/Heavies are. It's even in the description in game. Sentinels are point pushers and point defenders, they are more frontline than the assault and for that reason they should not have their resistance to explosives removed. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 620	Posted - 2014.09.19 01:22:00 - [13] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Because it makes the basically immune to mass drivers. LOL! No. Sentinels are designed to take on heavier firepower and resistance to the explosives...cause that's what Sentinels/Heavies are. It's even in the description in game. Sentinels are point pushers and point defenders, they are more frontline than the assault and for that reason they should not have their resistance to explosives removed. ...What unit in a game of skirmish ISN'T pushing a point or defending a point? And what bearing does the description have on pragmatic balancing? Splash is the PRIMARY mode of damage for the mass driver, direct hits are very hard to land against even a slow moving target (if the MD were easy to use, everyone would be using it). It's ridiculous to empty a whole clip of MD rounds onto a heavy and he only ends up halfway through armor. What other weapon has this disadvantage against heavies?
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13329	Posted - 2014.09.19 01:29:00 - [14] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Michael Arck wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Because it makes the basically immune to mass drivers. LOL! No. Sentinels are designed to take on heavier firepower and resistance to the explosives...cause that's what Sentinels/Heavies are. It's even in the description in game. Sentinels are point pushers and point defenders, they are more frontline than the assault and for that reason they should not have their resistance to explosives removed. ...What unit in a game of skirmish ISN'T pushing a point or defending a point? And what bearing does the description have on pragmatic balancing? Splash is the PRIMARY mode of damage for the mass driver, direct hits are very hard to land against even a slow moving target (if the MD were easy to use, everyone would be using it). It's ridiculous to empty a whole clip of MD rounds onto a heavy and he only ends up halfway through armor. What other weapon has this disadvantage against heavies? Not sure it matters to be honest. As I said before in actuality only the Amarr and Gallente should have higher than normal explosives damage resistance profiles as contrary to popular belief Amarr and Gallente resist explosive damage very well. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y Dark Taboo 218	Posted - 2014.09.19 05:28:00 - [15] - Quote Remove remotes and shotguns from the game. G.L.O.R.Y solider, Master of the Heavy (Amarr & Gallente)
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 936	Posted - 2014.09.19 06:04:00 - [16] - Quote No. RE scout detected. Please support fair play!
Aria Gomes The dyst0pian Corporation 525	Posted - 2014.09.19 08:01:00 - [17] - Quote I'd rather be able to detonate my REs right as I die than take away the explosive resistance
Vicious Minotaur 1137	Posted - 2014.09.19 08:03:00 - [18] - Quote Yes. Why not take it a step further and remove ALL resistances instead of just Explosive? And, you know, replace them with something less lame? Resistances are badly implemented and are completely at odds with the ways that bonuses effect the other classes. The Sentinel is the only class which receives class AND racial bonuses that are completely passive and indifferent to ALL fittings. But on all other classes, you have certain equipment requirements in order to take advantage of your bonuses: Logis need equipment, and a specific racial one. Scouts need to equip Cloaks, and have a passive bonus (that causes issues, and needs to be addressed) Commandos need to equip light weapons, and a specific racial one Assaults need specific light weapons *Sentinels don't need a damn thing, cause they are the ONLY class with pure passive bonuses Why are Sentinels the only class completely immune to fitting restrictions placed on bonuses? I don't know. And CCP probably does not know either. So yeah. Remove explosive resistance, and while you are at it, remove the rest. I'd make this into a separate thread, but most Sentinels seem to be content with the lame, boring status quo. P.S. Chromosome Heavy veteran, if anybody cares [nobody does] I am a minotaur.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 624	Posted - 2014.09.19 19:45:00 - [19] - Quote Aria Gomes wrote: I'd rather be able to detonate my REs right as I die than take away the explosive resistance Thank you for your noble sacrifice.
Hector Carson Hellz Gate of Awakening 18	Posted - 2014.09.20 00:49:00 - [20] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Remove explosive resistance from Heavies. I am a Heavy user, and I do have to kind of agree with you, they get a lot of armor and shields its only fair that they don't need a buff against explosives, so yes I do agree But honestly explosive resistance against RE's is pointless cause you die instantly if your too close A Corp free of conflict HGoA Ticker: 42014

CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1465	Posted - 2014.09.20 07:36:00 - [21] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Because it makes the basically immune to mass drivers. so why are you shooting at a heavy with a mass driver? KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2899	Posted - 2014.09.20 07:44:00 - [22] - Quote OMG nerf heavies... Again. Heavies die pretty easy if you dont engage them at point blank range. Scouts farm us for war points. RE are instakill even on an overtanked suit. Main guns are either useless in CQC or at ranges longer than spitball launchers. Slow, huge hitbox, impossible to miss. Has no scanning ability unless an ally is spotting for them. Without resistances heavies lasted what, slightly longer than a caldari assault under MD fire. The splash resistance was implemented to make it harder to farm sentinels. There is no explosive rwsistance. If you direct hit a heavy with a mass driver or a flaylock he takes full effect. The only Resistances are to splash and projectiles. There is no "explosive resistance" on sentinel suits.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1174	Posted - 2014.09.20 09:21:00 - [23] - Quote i've learned heavies of all races are weak to the bolt pistol. The more you know Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2903	Posted - 2014.09.20 09:25:00 - [24] - Quote If anyone is confused on how sentinel resistances actually work I will be happy to break it down shotgun style. It's not a resistance to explosives at all. You can ignore that particular resistance and bypass it.completely with direct hits.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 630	Posted - 2014.09.22 07:29:00 - [25] - Quote Again: 1) Splash is the PRIMARY mode of damage for the mass driver. 2) No other dropsuit in the game has such a high resistance to ANY other weapon type. Instead of one or two dropsuits being resistant to explosive splash damage, all dropsuits in an entire class are resistant by 25%, instead of the usual 10-15% race specific bonus. It's unbalanced.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2951	Posted - 2014.09.22 07:48:00 - [26] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Again: 1) Splash is the PRIMARY mode of damage for the mass driver. 2) No other dropsuit in the game has such a high resistance to ANY other weapon type. Instead of one or two dropsuits being resistant to explosive splash damage, all dropsuits in an entire class are resistant by 25%, instead of the usual 10-15% race specific bonus. It's unbalanced. Actually if there were more classes of heavy than "bricktank" and "not quite assault" they would be fine because people would opt for other fits. It's the lack of choices other tthan "bricktank, more bricktank and yet more bricktank" that make the sentinel a pain in the ass. Unfortunately the heavy frames are piles of crap because they are too damn squishy. The lack of the resistance makes them horrific to use because mass drivers basically instapop you. Plasma splash is similarly bad. This could be compensated for if the suits had other bonuses but I do not see that happening any time soon. Maybe we should be looking for variant suits. Come to think about it, if there were variants on assault and logi I might bother with them, or scouts. The mass driver and flaylock were the exact reason that sentinels were given splash resists.
Espeon Bons Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder. 258	Posted - 2014.09.22 08:15:00 - [27] - Quote Bump Follow your bliss!
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4653	Posted - 2014.09.22 12:14:00 - [28] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Because it makes the basically immune to mass drivers. LOL! No. Sentinels are designed to take on heavier firepower and resistance to the explosives...cause that's what Sentinels/Heavies are. It's even in the description in game. Sentinels are point pushers and point defenders, they are more frontline than the assault and for that reason they should not have their resistance to explosives removed. I disagree, I think there should be something besides a scout with RE to clear a logi/heavy train. If anything just knock it down a bit. The splash resist is crazy good currently. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 130	Posted - 2014.09.22 14:51:00 - [29] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Again: 1) Splash is the PRIMARY mode of damage for the mass driver. 2) No other dropsuit in the game has such a high resistance to ANY other weapon type. Instead of one or two dropsuits being resistant to explosive splash damage, all dropsuits in an entire class are resistant by 25%, instead of the usual 10-15% race specific bonus. It's unbalanced. Heavies were way too easy before. How are you using the MD? Are you maintaining range whenever possible, using its long range with no damage reduction out to maximum range to full advantage? Are you using its superb accuracy out to maximum range (once you get used to the arc and aiming/ranging with the bottom of the hip fire reticule)? Are you using corners to fall back, while inflicting damage to the advancing heavy, whenever you meet a heavy up close? IMHO, the mass driver has never been as well balanced as it is right now. The Exo-5 is my primary weapon; usually with no secondary weapon on my logi suit. I'm much less likely to survive a 1v1 with a shotgun scout than a 1v1 with a heavy. Heavies are still fairly easy to deal with unless you stumble on one without any corners to retreat around. In any other circumstance, I have a range and mobility advantage to leverage against any heavies I come across. Even in close quarters, if I have corners to retreat around, I can constantly splash an approaching heavy, without giving him direct line of sight long enough for him to waste me. Use the mass driver's slow travel time to your advantage. You get to fire at the ground ahead of him while he pushes around the corner, while you retreat around the corner, at the same time backing up to the next corner you'll be using for cover. You can kill them without them ever getting direct line of sight, without them ever getting a shot on you. The only heavies that give me trouble in close are just better players than me, or average heavies with burst HMGs, so even a moment of exposure or lag gets me killed. If you told me I had to duel someone and I had to use the mass driver and I got to chose their suit, I'd put them in a heavy suit. The one huge weakness (every weapon should have one) is running out of ammo when using the MD. The nerf to nanohive clusters was a bigger MD nerf than buffing heavy splash resistance. Mass drivers and heavies are very well balanced IMHO. If scouts were just a little bit slower or squishier, the class/weapon balance in this game would be outstanding. I'd love to see hard data, since the above is just my sense of things. I'd love to see weekly kills/deaths/isk destroyed, broken down by suits/weapons.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2960	Posted - 2014.09.22 15:07:00 - [30] - Quote I'm not quoting that last post. It may be a wall of text, but it was a good wall of text.



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