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manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game 90	Posted - 2014.09.01 01:48:00 - [1] - Quote Before you assume the worst let me point out a few facts: 2 particle cannon shots take out ads 3 swarm volleys kill ads 2 afg shots destroy ads 1 40k gorgon rammer burns ads 1 bump with a building decimates ads Also consider this: Even with afterburner on after 1st volley hits the second volley of swarm always connects With 1 volley of swarms it is possible for fg to 1 shot ads Afterburner provides acceleration boost NOT speed boost Fuel injector does provide speed boost Typical ads costs 500k and requires sp in vehicles, dropships, assault dropships, factional dropships, armour upgrades, armour optimisation, armour repair, armour composition, shield upgrades, shield optimisation, shield depleted recharge, core skills and all small turret skills. Typical proto swarm requires any dropsuit, weaponry, light weaponry and swarm launcher + proficiency and reload. And costs 60k Losing an ads a match is not viable economically. Currently swarms severely damage and kill ads in one clip... The good pilots use their afterburner and flight skills to dodge the 3rd volley of swarms. There are maye maximum 200 ads pilots, 30 max do pc There are countless swarm launchers and any 2 av infantry working together will kill ads easily I'm sick of people wanting a god mode easy win dumb fire swarm launcher If any CCP dev has a problem with my statements make a video of you "completely ignoring av" in the "fotm ads" NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
Zindorak 1.U.P 761	Posted - 2014.09.01 01:52:00 - [2] - Quote Oh My Gat i found another human being +1 to thread Pokemon master! CCP undo ScP nerf. It hurt my feering very bad
Hector Carson Hellz Gate of Awakening 7	Posted - 2014.09.01 01:53:00 - [3] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Before you assume the worst let me point out a few facts: 2 particle cannon shots take out ads 3 swarm volleys kill ads 2 afg shots destroy ads 1 40k gorgon rammer burns ads 1 bump with a building decimates ads Also consider this: Even with afterburner on after 1st volley hits the second volley of swarm always connects With 1 volley of swarms it is possible for fg to 1 shot ads Afterburner provides acceleration boost NOT speed boost Fuel injector does provide speed boost Typical ads costs 500k and requires sp in vehicles, dropships, assault dropships, factional dropships, armour upgrades, armour optimisation, armour repair, armour composition, shield upgrades, shield optimisation, shield depleted recharge, core skills and all small turret skills. Typical proto swarm requires any dropsuit, weaponry, light weaponry and swarm launcher + proficiency and reload. And costs 60k Losing an ads a match is not viable economically. Currently swarms severely damage and kill ads in one clip... The good pilots use their afterburner and flight skills to dodge the 3rd volley of swarms. There are maye maximum 200 ads pilots, 30 max do pc There are countless swarm launchers and any 2 av infantry working together will kill ads easily I'm sick of people wanting a god mode easy win dumb fire swarm launcher If any CCP dev has a problem with my statements make a video of you "completely ignoring av" in the "fotm ads" Lol he's just mad because he got taken out of the air by the new swarms, don't waste money on ads if you don't know how to avoid getting hit
Jammeh McJam New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 113	Posted - 2014.09.01 01:59:00 - [4] - Quote Hector Carson wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: Before you assume the worst let me point out a few facts: 2 particle cannon shots take out ads 3 swarm volleys kill ads 2 afg shots destroy ads 1 40k gorgon rammer burns ads 1 bump with a building decimates ads Also consider this: Even with afterburner on after 1st volley hits the second volley of swarm always connects With 1 volley of swarms it is possible for fg to 1 shot ads Afterburner provides acceleration boost NOT speed boost Fuel injector does provide speed boost Typical ads costs 500k and requires sp in vehicles, dropships, assault dropships, factional dropships, armour upgrades, armour optimisation, armour repair, armour composition, shield upgrades, shield optimisation, shield depleted recharge, core skills and all small turret skills. Typical proto swarm requires any dropsuit, weaponry, light weaponry and swarm launcher + proficiency and reload. And costs 60k Losing an ads a match is not viable economically. Currently swarms severely damage and kill ads in one clip... The good pilots use their afterburner and flight skills to dodge the 3rd volley of swarms. There are maye maximum 200 ads pilots, 30 max do pc There are countless swarm launchers and any 2 av infantry working together will kill ads easily I'm sick of people wanting a god mode easy win dumb fire swarm launcher If any CCP dev has a problem with my statements make a video of you "completely ignoring av" in the "fotm ads" Lol he's just mad because he got taken out of the air by the new swarms, don't waste money on ads if you don't know how to avoid getting hit If the proposed changes to swarms vs ADS come with hotfix delta then there won't be a way to escape, swarms will always catch up "We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends MAG ~ Raven vet
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK Intrepidus XI EoN. 199	Posted - 2014.09.01 02:26:00 - [5] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Before you assume the worst let me point out a few facts: 2 particle cannon shots take out ads 3 swarm volleys kill ads 2 afg shots destroy ads 1 40k gorgon rammer burns ads 1 bump with a building decimates ads Also consider this: Even with afterburner on after 1st volley hits the second volley of swarm always connects With 1 volley of swarms it is possible for fg to 1 shot ads Afterburner provides acceleration boost NOT speed boost Fuel injector does provide speed boost Typical ads costs 500k and requires sp in vehicles, dropships, assault dropships, factional dropships, armour upgrades, armour optimisation, armour repair, armour composition, shield upgrades, shield optimisation, shield depleted recharge, core skills and all small turret skills. Typical proto swarm requires any dropsuit, weaponry, light weaponry and swarm launcher + proficiency and reload. And costs 60k Losing an ads a match is not viable economically. Currently swarms severely damage and kill ads in one clip... The good pilots use their afterburner and flight skills to dodge the 3rd volley of swarms. There are maye maximum 200 ads pilots, 30 max do pc There are countless swarm launchers and any 2 av infantry working together will kill ads easily I'm sick of people wanting a god mode easy win dumb fire swarm launcher If any CCP dev has a problem with my statements make a video of you "completely ignoring av" in the "fotm ads" I've seen many-a-dropship outrun the second volly of swarms after the first one connects. Generally people don't toss a proto weapon alone onto a dropsuit fitting, considering they want at least a moderate chance at surviving an encounter their cost is generally 100k - 200k. Losing a tank worth over 1mil per match pre 1.whatever patch wasn't viabe economically yet it was done, what makes your dropship so special it deserves to keep its invulnerability mod whle tankers succumbed to teamwork and tactics? Planetside 2 Eventually Eh
Atiim 11769	Posted - 2014.09.01 03:20:00 - [6] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Before you assume the worst let me point out a few facts: 2 particle cannon shots take out ads 3 swarm volleys kill ads 2 afg shots destroy ads 1 40k gorgon rammer burns ads 1 bump with a building decimates ads 3 Volleys do not kill a Python. With 2 Shield Extenders I can get it to 3886 eHP, which is enough to negate 3 volleys of a maxed out Swarm Launcher (3294HP), while still having an Afterburner to escape if I'm stupid enough to stand there. As for the Incubus, 2 Armor Plates allows you to get to 5011 eHP, which is also enough to negate 3 volleys from a maxed out Swarm Launcher (4547HP), and still having Armor Reps and an Afterburner to escape with ease. 2 AFG shots wouldn't kill either of these builds; crashing into buildings and being rammed by MLT Dropships are issues only faced by incompetent pilots. manboar thunder fist wrote: Also consider this: Even with afterburner on after 1st volley hits the second volley of swarm always connects False. I've been hit by the first volley but managed to outrun the second numerous times. With 1 volley of swarms it is possible for fg to 1 shot ads Sure if you've got a Base Python standing still and exposing it's weakspot. Otherwise run a single FG shot (even Wyrikomi Breach) will not OHK an ADS of any kind. As for SL volleys, a single volley can't even OHK a MLT LAV. Afterburner provides acceleration boost NOT speed boost False. Afterburners yield a 150% Air Speed increase. Fuel injector does provide speed boost manboar thunder fist wrote: Typical ads costs 500k and requires sp in vehicles, dropships, assault dropships, factional dropships, armour upgrades, armour optimisation, armour repair, armour composition, shield upgrades, shield optimisation, shield depleted recharge, core skills and all small turret skills. Typical proto swarm requires any dropsuit, weaponry, light weaponry and swarm launcher + proficiency and reload. And costs 60k Sure, any Dropsuit can use a Swarm Launcher, but if you have the intent on actually killing things, you'll need to get a Minmatar Commando. With that in mind, let's look at all the skills needed Dropsuit Command III Minmatar Heavy Dropsuits III Minmatar Commando Dropsuits V Dropsuit Upgrades I Dropsuit Core Upgrades III Dropsuit Armor Upgrades V Dropsuit Shield Upgrades V Dropsuit Electronics V Armor Plating III Armor Repair Systems III Dropsuit Engineering V Nanocircuitry V Weaponry IV Light Weapon Operation IV Swarm Launcher Operation V Swarm Launcher Proficiency V Swarm Launcher Reload Speed V Swarm Launcher Ammo Capacity V Combat Rifle Operation V Combat Rifle Proficiency III Note: Combat Rifle skills are necessary unless you intend to run nothing but a Swarm Launcher on you AV suit, in which case even an Ion Pistol will kill you with ease. Prof. III is needed as it'll allow you to kill Sentinels if they hop out of their vehicle. There are other skills which can improve your AV rig, but they aren't exactly nessescities so I removed them from the list. Though with the skills you stated, your AV rig will be getting killed by Flaylocks as you have no secondary. As for only being 60k ISK, let me show you an optimal Swarm Launcher fitting. It allows you to carry 4 Nanohives, which removes the ability for Pilots to wear you down via attrition, you have the ability to fight back if they hop out the vehicle, you have a good 'tank', and you're dealing maximum SL damage. The cost of this suit is actually 142,665 ISK, which assumes that you don't die at all (which is unlikely when facing a good Pilot and/or competent Infantry units). manboar thunder fist wrote: Losing an ads a match is not viable economically. Which will be changed in Hotfix Delta. manboar thunder fist wrote: Currently swarms severely damage and kill ads in one clip... The good pilots use their afterburner and flight skills to dodge the 3rd volley of swarms. There are maye maximum 200 ads pilots, 30 max do pc There are countless swarm launchers and any 2 av infantry working together will kill ads easily See my earlier refute to your "kill in 1 clip" assertion. Quantity does not equate to Quality, so the second assertion is null. Though V/AV balance (or any balance for that matter) is balanced based on a 1v1 engagement, so your final assertion is irrelevant in the same sense that me saying 2 ADSs will kill anything with ease is irrelevant. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game 93	Posted - 2014.09.01 05:37:00 - [7] - Quote Lol it's ok. I understand as a Matari commando you want to be able to kill any vehicle as soon as you lock on to it... Try a little less paper calculation... Last time I was hit by an afg it was royal giedro from fa dealing 2590 damage. That's enough to 2 shot me. Once you get out there in a ds and are hit by swarms you'll see just how effective they are. With the incubus fitting you mentioned the swarms will definitely connect due to armor plate penalty. Most pilots do not brick tank like crazy, these aren't scrub dropsuits. Even if a pilot stacks armor plates their rep rate will be so low it will take them excessive amounts of time to get back into fighting shape. In addition swarms can be fired from doorways and openings in cover. There is no cover in the air. Swarm launchers can also swap out at supply depots to constantly regen their suit. We can do silly stuff like that. It doesn't take a minmatar commando to kill an ads... Any suit with a wirykomi swarm launcher works just as well to apply marginally lower dmg on target very quickly and easily... Being vulnerable is hardly a problem, you have your team, cover and sidearm to fall back on. And as to your reference to numbers... If av/v calculation is one on one they should be equally costly... Not to mention there should be an ads for every swarm launcher out there.... Sorry but having a swarm on your op cr minmando doesn't make you god mode NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1360	Posted - 2014.09.01 06:09:00 - [8] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Lol it's ok. I understand as a Matari commando you want to be able to kill any vehicle as soon as you lock on to it... Try a little less paper calculation... Last time I was hit by an afg it was royal giedro from fa dealing 2590 damage. That's enough to 2 shot me. Once you get out there in a ds and are hit by swarms you'll see just how effective they are. With the incubus fitting you mentioned the swarms will definitely connect due to armor plate penalty. Most pilots do not brick tank like crazy, these aren't scrub dropsuits. Even if a pilot stacks armor plates their rep rate will be so low it will take them excessive amounts of time to get back into fighting shape. In addition swarms can be fired from doorways and openings in cover. There is no cover in the air. Swarm launchers can also swap out at supply depots to constantly regen their suit. We can do silly stuff like that. It doesn't take a minmatar commando to kill an ads... Any suit with a wirykomi swarm launcher works just as well to apply marginally lower dmg on target very quickly and easily... Being vulnerable is hardly a problem, you have your team, cover and sidearm to fall back on. And as to your reference to numbers... If av/v calculation is one on one they should be equally costly... Not to mention there should be an ads for every swarm launcher out there.... Sorry but having a swarm on your op cr minmando doesn't make you god mode Why are you bringing reason to this conversation? Logic and reason have no play in New Eden Spaaace. They just don't. ADS price was commented on as too high and was going to addressed soon(bs). CCP Rattiti has yet to touch the two entries in the database that would change it. Instead we fly overpriced coffins that are miserable to fly (yes, there are better pilots than I) and a lot of it has to do with bad physics that are inherent to the design/coding of Dust. Recall the exploding shield tanks, run over a curb (like on a street by the mini-mart) and blow the Iceland up? Yep, this game was written by that same group of coders. They have addressed some of the physics as I don't recall many exploding shield tanks* of late. But, ADS still go down too quickly, in particular when one considers their acknowledged high price. The bit in your quoted post about being able to kill anything is a problem in Dust. Everybody wants to do it, nobody wants to die, most whine on the forums and CCP seems to react to QQ more than one would suspect when considering how EVE Online is run. But, down in the Dust, check out the assault rifle and the nerf list for it. Seems like they want to nuke/nerf the ADS. Why fight it? Since 1.0 each release has cost me some friends to play with. While I might pick up a couple more it is still been a net loss. Which is why I am not on much anymore. Login, no friends, logout without even starting Dust. If I do start Dust, often there is still nobody to play with. And the single play is mostly boring. The 3x5 event is boring as getting proto-stomped in over half the matches is a hassle. * There is a spot next to the installation with the mushroom where any tank will explode if you drive too close to the building, slightly under the mushroom itself, next to the wall. No client fixes, means do not drive there. Love your signature, BTW. And so it goes.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game 94	Posted - 2014.09.01 07:01:00 - [9] - Quote Tesfa this is good argument ^^ Meee One wrote: It's funny you single out the "50,000 isk swarm launcher". Yet you mention the whole dropship. That suit can't escape from you,you can however escape from him. You have 3x his ammo and damage easily,in an endurance battle you'd win. You can (possibly) 1-2 shot his suit,which may be Pro,costing him possibly 100k minimal. Your main weapon doesn't put you at an overwhelming disadvantage vs other vehicles like swarms do for infantry vs infantry. And if you're using missiles you can spam them very innacurately to great effect,while the swarm launcher makes you defenseless and requires directly looking at a target to lock on. And you can easily kill groups of infantry with a few missiles,yet infantry must use several salvoes to temporarily drive you off. You can easily terminate groups of infantry with 1 pilot using 1 ADS. You CANNOT easily terminate 1 ADS using 1 infantry AV. Costs equal possible damage caused,they are perfectly acceptable. The suit may be a proto suit but my drop ship isnt at proto level either which i why i mention the price of my ship with only ADV modules, turret included. The proto suit isnt used exclusivley for av its just a fit you have on your proto suit. Also proto could only cost 8K isk and 155 loyalty points. currently what 20 AUR? 1 FW and you're set.1 drop ship loss is 3 matches just to try to break even. flying one out four matches just to not go isk negative, yep balanced. Suits can get away by finding cover. Suits get killed when they're out in the open without cover, exaclty the same as a firefight. You get caught crossing an open area somebody with a rail rifle will take you down. I don't see how this uniquely apllies to dropships. Thats funny because commando suits like the MK.0 are great for swarms and infantyr to point where rattati is about to nerf the **** out of projectile weapons. The only pure disadvantage is if you use a gal/cal/min logi suit as your swarm fit. Sidearms man, or in the case of commandos another light weapon. Also if infantry are wiping you out on the ground before you can even get a good look at a vehicle with swarms your prioritizing the big scary flying thing in the air over hte roving bands or infantry killing your team thats where you are making the worng tactical choice. With missile "spam" we only have 8 shots before reloading. It looks innacurate on the ground because we have to fire using a white crosshair thrgouh the back of a white ship. We litterally cannot see the target we have to fire when the red dot over his head matches up. like you said tow or three missiles hits to kill a suit, generally its about 3 to five rounds if your a good shot. In an endurance battle no way with proto swarms doing around 1.2K damage with a bonus vs armor, even if i survive his third volley i certainly wont survive whatever else is incoming. That why drops ships afterburn away after the first hit because we dont know what else is comming. My main weapon isn't some top secret classified specialized nuke. Its a small turret. Anybody with a LAV can use them. I'm still waiting for people to say LAVs with heavy gunners are so OP. If kill a group of 3 players 3x50 150 WP. You get two salvoes off 2X75 =150 WP. Obviously if i'm in a vehicle the poor old infantry WITHOUT AV are going to have a bad time. 1 forge gunner can do a really good job of terminating a dropship. The forge round hoever doest follow me all over the sky.1 wyrokami with take less time to find a lock than the forger gunner will hurt me pretty badly and get minmimum 75 wp just by looking in my direction. If costs equal possible damage cause then why do tanks with MUCH more HP, large mounted turrets, and higher DPS cost less? Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. All credit to tests alem NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 709	Posted - 2014.09.01 10:21:00 - [10] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Before you assume the worst let me point out a few facts: 2 particle cannon shots take out ads 3 swarm volleys kill ads 2 afg shots destroy ads 1 40k gorgon rammer burns ads 1 bump with a building decimates ads Also consider this: Even with afterburner on after 1st volley hits the second volley of swarm always connects With 1 volley of swarms it is possible for fg to 1 shot ads Afterburner provides acceleration boost NOT speed boost Fuel injector does provide speed boost Typical ads costs 500k and requires sp in vehicles, dropships, assault dropships, factional dropships, armour upgrades, armour optimisation, armour repair, armour composition, shield upgrades, shield optimisation, shield depleted recharge, core skills and all small turret skills. Typical proto swarm requires any dropsuit, weaponry, light weaponry and swarm launcher + proficiency and reload. And costs 60k Losing an ads a match is not viable economically. Currently swarms severely damage and kill ads in one clip... The good pilots use their afterburner and flight skills to dodge the 3rd volley of swarms. There are maye maximum 200 ads pilots, 30 max do pc There are countless swarm launchers and any 2 av infantry working together will kill ads easily I'm sick of people wanting a god mode easy win dumb fire swarm launcher If any CCP dev has a problem with my statements make a video of you "completely ignoring av" in the "fotm ads" no no and no.. ads can pretty much nearly sit there and take 6 vollys from a standard swarm with 3x damage mods.. and proto are supposedly less then they used to be.. so you are just asking for your God-Mode back -1 ps. boo effin hoo.. 500k isk.. try running proto logi and losing several suits cause your actually at risk of losing your suit insted of ADS who pop their defense and fly off super quick before any chance of being killed is possible... any logi can agree with me that proto logi losses are more risky and just as expensive as an ADS loss.. GIT GUD or get out of ADS till you can fly them GUD :P [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 709	Posted - 2014.09.01 10:26:00 - [11] - Quote Atiim wrote: [too many quotes to quote] +1 for laying a LOGIC smackdown on an ADS fool who wanted their godmode back [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 966	Posted - 2014.09.01 10:31:00 - [12] - Quote Hector Carson wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: Before you assume the worst let me point out a few facts: 2 particle cannon shots take out ads 3 swarm volleys kill ads 2 afg shots destroy ads 1 40k gorgon rammer burns ads 1 bump with a building decimates ads Also consider this: Even with afterburner on after 1st volley hits the second volley of swarm always connects With 1 volley of swarms it is possible for fg to 1 shot ads Afterburner provides acceleration boost NOT speed boost Fuel injector does provide speed boost Typical ads costs 500k and requires sp in vehicles, dropships, assault dropships, factional dropships, armour upgrades, armour optimisation, armour repair, armour composition, shield upgrades, shield optimisation, shield depleted recharge, core skills and all small turret skills. Typical proto swarm requires any dropsuit, weaponry, light weaponry and swarm launcher + proficiency and reload. And costs 60k Losing an ads a match is not viable economically. Currently swarms severely damage and kill ads in one clip... The good pilots use their afterburner and flight skills to dodge the 3rd volley of swarms. There are maye maximum 200 ads pilots, 30 max do pc There are countless swarm launchers and any 2 av infantry working together will kill ads easily I'm sick of people wanting a god mode easy win dumb fire swarm launcher If any CCP dev has a problem with my statements make a video of you "completely ignoring av" in the "fotm ads" Lol he's just mad because he got taken out of the air by the new swarms, don't waste money on ads if you don't know how to avoid getting hit I don't agree with everything he said but how about invisible swarms? Can you tell me how to avoid those? Just stay at max flight altitude all match?
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 730	Posted - 2014.09.01 11:40:00 - [13] - Quote Atiim wrote: 3 Volleys do not kill a Python. With 2 Shield Extenders I can get it to 3886 eHP, which is enough to negate 3 volleys of a maxed out Swarm Launcher (3294HP), while still having an Afterburner to escape if I'm stupid enough to stand there. As for the Incubus, 2 Armor Plates allows you to get to 5011 eHP, which is also enough to negate 3 volleys from a maxed out Swarm Launcher (4547HP), and still having Armor Reps and an Afterburner to escape with ease. Thanks for the armchair piloting: 3886 is impossible under current fitting availability. The maximum is around 3300. With Max fitting and fitting for an Afterburner (of course) you can reach 3244 with an AT-1, complex PG and a basic Afterburner. True,Incubi can get high tank but again your maths is invalid: with two Complex 60mm, you have 1140 shields (vs Swarm damage profile) and 3730 armour (2984 vs Swarm profile, neither including MinCom buff.) I cannot find a combination of plates to reach 5011 eHP, care to clarify? Any fit involving 120mm plates requires a single plate or a PG Extension...so a single plate. That said, they do also suffer the full effects of AV power where Pythons do not, due to damage profiles. Atiim wrote: crashing into buildings and being rammed by MLT Dropships are issues only faced by incompetent pilots. Crashing, mostly you're correct, though impulse effects can through you about and move you more than you might think. As for ramships, you're dead wrong. ADSs have an 80m passive range: by the time the rammer is picked up on passives, they are already in terminal manoeuvres and anything you do is essentially moot. Can you escape them? Yes, if they have misjudged their aim or you move for another reason at the last moment. But ramships have all of the advantages and due to wonky collision damage its about a 95% kill ratio. Atiim wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: Losing an ads a match is not viable economically. Which will be changed in Hotfix Delta. I hope so. Unlike Swarms, which are viable at all level as, at minimum, a strong deterrent, ADSs must kill to gain points. A Swarm can rip points off a dropship like there's no tomorrow, yet that isn't enough. A STD MinCom fit with STD Swarms can get plenty of points off any vehicle and still cost only 12,495isk, with only STD modules/CR and a K2 hive. That fit will kill the incautious and will deal enough damage to threaten any ADS enough to force it to disengage or die: which is why you get points for damage. Compared to the ADS where the basic hull alone costs 322,995isk unfitted, which means you are likely to lose ISK if you lose a single one even if you're in the top 2-5 on the boards. Fitting all militia will still have you at around 340k ISK. For a militia fitted ADS. Thing is, we've already had one push back of the price reduction and now we are seeing talking of further improving Swarms efficacy. Without a price reduction, further improved Swarms will mean a return to something like 1.6 (not even nearly as horrible, but still) where any AV brought out will almost immediately invalidate the ADS. Personally, I'm of the opinion that w should be exploring the Swarm variants more thoroughly: Assaults used to hit ADSs from further away and with better speed but led power; breaches hitting harder but with lower range or speed or lock on. Regular Swarm Launchers are currently mostly balanced (a slight speed increase, maybe 20%, would be enough to make them incredibly dangerous all the time.) Alt of Halla Murr.
Jammeh McJam New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 113	Posted - 2014.09.01 12:35:00 - [14] - Quote @ atiim, can you link to the post where you heard that ADS price was being reduced in delta? It was supposed to be in charlie but it was taken out at the last minute, and i've seen nothing about it being in delta. The ONLY way to survive swarms in an ADS is to run, once swarms are made faster then that will no longer be possible. "We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends MAG ~ Raven vet
Shooter Somewhere Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 61	Posted - 2014.09.01 14:17:00 - [15] - Quote 2 particle cannon shots take out ads 3 swarm volleys kill ads 2 afg shots destroy ads 1 40k gorgon rammer burns ads 1 bump with a building decimates ads 1: Wrong. 7-8 kill your ADS you must have poor skills if it takes only 2. 2: only 3? suggest your a wanna be python stomper which is why. and my python it takes 4 and im out on the 1st so you suck 3: 2 AFK? it should take 3. again what a poorly built ADS. 4. a 40k burns your ADS? WRONG AGAIN. it evaporates it in mid air. 5. your a really crap pilot I have to be throw into a building by AV. my inc rams into buildings to straighten it out my ptython handles itself fine on a little bump. practice with Myron's first buddy sure AV is OP but that does not mean everything else that wants to kill you is as well. HEADSHOT! HEADSHOT!! HEADSHOT!!! HEADSHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=earCbU6vgAo
Atiim 11785	Posted - 2014.09.01 15:11:00 - [16] - Quote Jammeh McJam wrote: @ atiim, can you link to the post where you heard that ADS price was being reduced in delta? It was supposed to be in charlie but it was taken out at the last minute, and i've seen nothing about it being in delta. The ONLY way to survive swarms in an ADS is to run, once swarms are made faster then that will no longer be possible. CCP Rattati said that he was willing to make them cheaper CCP Rattati wrote: I would rather not go into this bitter dispute, but let's make something absolutely clear. An ADS pilot, can, with afterburners literally always avoid death. A solo swarm can not destroy an ADS, much less in 5 seconds and certainly not "every time he shows his face". The good pilots all know and admit this and are running crazy KDR's, especially if two proto swarmers and one proto forger are what is necessary to down an ADS, then one must admit it is in a good place. We are however, willing to make the ADS cheaper to fly so more people can skill into and enjoy them, and make swarm turn radius less drastic so skilled pilots can do combat maneuvers around buildings and terrain to avoid them. While it's not a clear cut confirmation, one could make the logical assumption that since he's willing to make these changes now, it'll end up with Hotfix Delta. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Mejt0 The Only Survivor. 446	Posted - 2014.09.01 15:26:00 - [17] - Quote Ads dont need any buffs. They are already only stopped by few AVers. Python can litteraly fly to IAFG user and kill him before he can charge 2nd shot. That how fast missiles kill. About rammers. If somone rams you... youre either afking or dont fly at all. Price. 300k as for ADV vehicle is cheap. Caldari Loyalist Markiplier fan. Got 6815 WP only on wrecking tanks with Ion Cannon.
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3054	Posted - 2014.09.01 15:27:00 - [18] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Before you assume the worst let me point out a few facts: 2 particle cannon shots take out ads 3 swarm volleys kill ads 2 afg shots destroy ads 1 40k gorgon rammer burns ads 1 bump with a building decimates ads With 3 enhanced damage mods I have taken derrith's fit out in 2 shots but he hadn't had time to activate his booster so if an ADS has time to activate the shield booster/hardener or chooses to stack another shield extender I doubt even with complex damage mods I could two shot a Python. You can pretty much always get away from the third volley and often it takes four It takes at least 3 I believe Derrith said that wasn't a problem because you can stack range amps and precisions and be able to see them coming and do to the ADS's superior maneuverability easily escape Learn to fly? Tanker/Logi/Assault
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 858	Posted - 2014.09.01 15:46:00 - [19] - Quote Atiim wrote: Sniff Sniff, I want my swarms to be OP. You're a scrub. You are Biased AF. What you want is ez mode with your lock and fire skill-less weapon, and you want it to always kill. Issues like Dropship ramming and bumping into stuff you blame on pilots by saying they suck. I have seen Judge and Sir Snuggle( Forgot name) crash into buildings and get rammed. They have been flying fever since ADS came out and what you are saying is that they suck? Really? You say ADS takes too many swarms to kill but did you forget that you always talk about the most tanked ADS. Is this what the game has come to? Tank and flee or be killed by skill-less weapons. Next thing you know, you are QQing about mass driver not being able to kill because people can run away for the splash. Area denial is just as good as killing but I wouldn't expect a swarm scrub a dub like you to understand. CCP don't listen to this fool. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 858	Posted - 2014.09.01 15:47:00 - [20] - Quote Shooter Somewhere wrote: 2 particle cannon shots take out ads 3 swarm volleys kill ads 2 afg shots destroy ads 1 40k gorgon rammer burns ads 1 bump with a building decimates ads 1: Wrong. 7-8 kill your ADS you must have poor skills if it takes only 2. 2: only 3? suggest your a wanna be python stomper which is why. and my python it takes 4 and im out on the 1st so you suck 3: 2 AFK? it should take 3. again what a poorly built ADS. 4. a 40k burns your ADS? WRONG AGAIN. it evaporates it in mid air. 5. your a really crap pilot I have to be throw into a building by AV. my inc rams into buildings to straighten it out my ptython handles itself fine on a little bump. practice with Myron's first buddy sure AV is OP but that does not mean everything else that wants to kill you is as well. What you are basically saying is Tank or go home. Sad. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3

Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 858	Posted - 2014.09.01 15:51:00 - [21] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Ads dont need any buffs. They are already only stopped by few AVers. Python can litteraly fly to IAFG user and kill him before he can charge 2nd shot. That how fast missiles kill. About rammers. If somone rams you... youre either afking or dont fly at all. Price. 300k as for ADV vehicle is cheap. There has never been a python I've run into that beat me while I used my IAFG. Also remember, python level 5 cost 2.5 mil and modules cost another good 3mil and the Priced of ADS is 500k isk. IAFG costs around 600k sp, Proficiency doesn't do anything so why spec into it? Also IAFG costs 47k isk and requires much less player skill to kill than ADS. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4698	Posted - 2014.09.01 16:24:00 - [22] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: 3 swarm volleys kill ads Can't comment on the other claims, but this claim is false. If it were true, then Swarm Damage should be reduced. But it isn't true, and repeating it over and over again won't make it true. - Pro(5) Swarmer Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 858	Posted - 2014.09.01 16:42:00 - [23] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: 3 swarm volleys kill ads Can't comment on the other claims, but this claim is false. Repeating it over and over again won't make it true. - Pro(5) Swarmer They do as long as the person doesn't run and doesn't tank. Tank as in like 3100 shield python and 4000+ armor incubus. My 2555 shield dies in 3 volleys easy to pro 5 swarmser. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Cody Sietz Evzones Public.Disorder. 3948	Posted - 2014.09.01 16:56:00 - [24] - Quote 2 assault FG hits do not take out a ADS of any race. Now 2 Proto breach FG hits will down a ADS nor problem. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Atiim 11788	Posted - 2014.09.01 17:00:00 - [25] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: 3 swarm volleys kill ads Can't comment on the other claims, but this claim is false. Repeating it over and over again won't make it true. - Pro(5) Swarmer They do as long as the person doesn't run and doesn't tank. Tank as in like 3100 shield python and 4000+ armor incubus. My 2555 shield dies in 3 volleys easy to pro 5 swarmser. Proficiency doesn't effect Shield Damage, so with the -20% you've got 3834 eHP against a Swarm Launcher. 3 Volleys deals 3744HP, so you'll be left with 90HP (dangerously low). However, you should already be out of their lock range well before 4.2s anyways. That is assuming however, that they aren't using Damage Modifiers... DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Ronan Elsword Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 288	Posted - 2014.09.01 18:26:00 - [26] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: 2 assault FG hits do not take out a ADS of any race. Now 2 Proto breach FG hits will down a ADS nor problem. You must not use the Assault forge gun very often. I've taken out quite a few with just two and I'm not even decent.
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 858	Posted - 2014.09.01 19:44:00 - [27] - Quote Atiim wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: 3 swarm volleys kill ads Can't comment on the other claims, but this claim is false. Repeating it over and over again won't make it true. - Pro(5) Swarmer They do as long as the person doesn't run and doesn't tank. Tank as in like 3100 shield python and 4000+ armor incubus. My 2555 shield dies in 3 volleys easy to pro 5 swarmser. Proficiency doesn't effect Shield Damage, so with the -20% you've got 3834 eHP against a Swarm Launcher. 3 Volleys deals 3744HP, so you'll be left with 90HP (dangerously low). However, you should already be out of their lock range well before 4.2s anyways. That is assuming however, that they aren't using Damage Modifiers... Who doesn't use damage mods on their AV fit? *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 858	Posted - 2014.09.01 19:45:00 - [28] - Quote Ronan Elsword wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: 2 assault FG hits do not take out a ADS of any race. Now 2 Proto breach FG hits will down a ADS nor problem. You must not use the Assault forge gun very often. I've taken out quite a few with just two and I'm not even decent. Yea, a shot to the weak spot (the engine area) does a sht ton of damage. back before they nerfed heavy damage mods, I used to OHK incubus with Proto breach Fg. Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Jammeh McJam New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 114	Posted - 2014.09.01 20:32:00 - [29] - Quote Atiim wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: 3 swarm volleys kill ads Can't comment on the other claims, but this claim is false. Repeating it over and over again won't make it true. - Pro(5) Swarmer They do as long as the person doesn't run and doesn't tank. Tank as in like 3100 shield python and 4000+ armor incubus. My 2555 shield dies in 3 volleys easy to pro 5 swarmser. Proficiency doesn't effect Shield Damage, so with the -20% you've got 3834 eHP against a Swarm Launcher. 3 Volleys deals 3744HP, so you'll be left with 90HP (dangerously low). However, you should already be out of their lock range well before 4.2s anyways. That is assuming however, that they aren't using Damage Modifiers... Atiim noone tanks dropships... "We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends MAG ~ Raven vet
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2543	Posted - 2014.09.01 22:18:00 - [30] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Before you assume the worst let me point out a few facts: 2 particle cannon shots take out ads not without 2 or more damage mods 3 swarm volleys kill ads In most cases, yes, but not always 2 afg shots destroy ads What kind of an ADS do you fly, my model takes 4 shots to down 1 40k gorgon rammer burns ads Don't hover in an area unless you have to, you normally won't get rammed that way. 1 bump with a building decimates ads CCP is working on this (not), it should be fixed soonTM Also consider this: Even with afterburner on after 1st volley hits the second volley of swarm always connects Not always, there are techniques With 1 volley of swarms it is possible for fg to 1 shot ads Again, what kind of ADS do you fly? Afterburner provides acceleration boost NOT speed boost What are you smoking? Fuel injector does provide speed boost It's a tomato tomato thing in my opinion, they both achieve roughly the same thing Typical ads costs 500k and requires sp in vehicles, dropships, assault dropships, factional dropships, armour upgrades, armour optimisation, armour repair, armour composition, shield upgrades, shield optimisation, shield depleted recharge, core skills and all small turret skills. True dat, girlfriend! snaps fingers Typical proto swarm requires any dropsuit, weaponry, light weaponry and swarm launcher + proficiency and reload. And costs 60k Reload over proficiencies. Losing an ads a match is not viable economically. Vehicles period are not viable economically. Currently swarms severely damage and kill ads in one clip... The good pilots use their afterburner and flight skills to dodge the 3rd volley of swarms. There are maybe maximum 200 ads pilots, 30 max do pc Well, out of the good ones at least, there are crappy pilots, they are out there, somewhere in the world There are countless swarm launchers and any 2 av infantry working together will kill ads easily Hate to side with AV people, but that's the way it's supposed to go I'm sick of people wanting a god mode easy win dumb fire swarm launcher Preach on BROTHA!! TESTIFY!! Nah, but really, I agree If any CCP dev has a problem with my statements make a video of you "completely ignoring av" in the "fotm ads" What decent pilot ignores AV? My opinions were stated next to each point. Also underlined. Watch this video to lose your panties

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4702	Posted - 2014.09.01 22:25:00 - [31] - Quote Jammeh McJam wrote: Atiim wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: 3 swarm volleys kill ads Can't comment on the other claims, but this claim is false. Repeating it over and over again won't make it true. - Pro(5) Swarmer They do as long as the person doesn't run and doesn't tank. Tank as in like 3100 shield python and 4000+ armor incubus. My 2555 shield dies in 3 volleys easy to pro 5 swarmser. Proficiency doesn't effect Shield Damage, so with the -20% you've got 3834 eHP against a Swarm Launcher. 3 Volleys deals 3744HP, so you'll be left with 90HP (dangerously low). However, you should already be out of their lock range well before 4.2s anyways. That is assuming however, that they aren't using Damage Modifiers... Atiim noone tanks dropships... Now I'm confused. One pilot says 3 proto volleys are guaranteed to drop an ADS. The next pilot says only if they're high proficiency and damage amp'd. The next pilot says only if the ADS isn't HP tanked. The next pilot says no one HP tanks an ADS. So which is it? PS: I run damage amp'd proficiency 5 proto swarms; I have never solo'd a Python or Incubus; I have landed an entire clip on numerous occasions. PPS: I don't think I should be able to solo a Python or Incubus in one clip. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3066	Posted - 2014.09.01 22:26:00 - [32] - Quote Jammeh McJam wrote: Atiim wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: 3 swarm volleys kill ads Can't comment on the other claims, but this claim is false. Repeating it over and over again won't make it true. - Pro(5) Swarmer They do as long as the person doesn't run and doesn't tank. Tank as in like 3100 shield python and 4000+ armor incubus. My 2555 shield dies in 3 volleys easy to pro 5 swarmser. Proficiency doesn't effect Shield Damage, so with the -20% you've got 3834 eHP against a Swarm Launcher. 3 Volleys deals 3744HP, so you'll be left with 90HP (dangerously low). However, you should already be out of their lock range well before 4.2s anyways. That is assuming however, that they aren't using Damage Modifiers... Atiim noone tanks dropships... Snugglz did and while Derrith active tanks his when he hits his shield booster he gains 900 shield and 2555+900=3455 3455*20%=4146 ehp vs swarms. Tanker/Logi/Assault
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game 99	Posted - 2014.09.01 23:05:00 - [33] - Quote Shooter Somewhere wrote: 2 particle cannon shots take out ads 3 swarm volleys kill ads 2 afg shots destroy ads 1 40k gorgon rammer burns ads 1 bump with a building decimates ads 1: Wrong. 7-8 kill your ADS you must have poor skills if it takes only 2. 2: only 3? suggest your a wanna be python stomper which is why. and my python it takes 4 and im out on the 1st so you suck 3: 2 AFK? it should take 3. again what a poorly built ADS. 4. a 40k burns your ADS? WRONG AGAIN. it evaporates it in mid air. 5. your a really crap pilot I have to be throw into a building by AV. my inc rams into buildings to straighten it out my ptython handles itself fine on a little bump. practice with Myron's first buddy sure AV is OP but that does not mean everything else that wants to kill you is as well. 1. Do you even pc bro? 2 shots from a dmg mod particle cannon will wreck 2. 3 wirykomi swarm volleys with dmg mods or proficiency or minmando will kill the average ads. A fw brick tank variations might survive in couple hundred hp 3. You clearly don't play against the best forge gunners so don't even comment 4. What is even your point here? My gorgon costs 26000 5. If a swarm launcher knocks me into something I die. Must you insult your intelligence by resorting to name calling? It's adapt that drop ships have unique texture properties different to tanks resulting in high collision damage Please get good before you comment on someone else's ability to Fly or ill rip your python a new one NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game 99	Posted - 2014.09.01 23:19:00 - [34] - Quote The last thing I want is an op ads... It needs to be a high skill vehicle sure But remember pilots need to learn to fly too... You can't simply comment on the best pilots like derrith and espeon... Anyone with a swarm launcher can use it. How are people meant to learn to fly with the av ideas you are suggesting? I myself run an av swarm commando with gauged hives and a gal sentinel with iafg... If you have any issues with vehicle survivabilitu I am willing to sit there and let you shoot at me provided you pay when I am shown to be correct and die NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2544	Posted - 2014.09.01 23:34:00 - [35] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Now I'm confused. One pilot says 3 proto swarm volleys are guaranteed to drop any ADS. The next pilot says only if the swarms are high proficiency and damage amp'd. The next pilot says only if the ADS isn't HP tanked. The next pilot says no one HP tanks the ADS. So which is it? PS: I run damage amp'd proficiency 5 proto swarms; I have never solo'd a Python or Incubus; I have landed an entire clip on both on numerous, separate occasions. PPS: I don't think any swarmer should be able to solo a Python or Incubus in one clip. One pilot is wrong the next pilot is only half right the next pilot is right the next pilot is clearly not a proper pilot, 95% of all ADS fits I've seen have some form of tank on them. Watch this video to lose your panties
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1953	Posted - 2014.09.01 23:57:00 - [36] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Now I'm confused. One pilot says 3 proto swarm volleys are guaranteed to drop any ADS. The next pilot says only if the swarms are high proficiency and damage amp'd. The next pilot says only if the ADS isn't HP tanked. The next pilot says no one HP tanks the ADS. So which is it? PS: I run damage amp'd proficiency 5 proto swarms; I have never solo'd a Python or Incubus; I have landed an entire clip on both on numerous, separate occasions. PPS: I don't think any swarmer should be able to solo a Python or Incubus in one clip. It doesn't matter specific numbers. All that matters is that unless the ADS retreats, it will be dead soon. When it retreats, you've won for now. It is an undeniable FACT that every form of AV is guaranteed to prevent the ADS from doing what it wants to do. It is impossible for ANY ADS, not matter how tanky or agile, to ignore any form of AV and keep even 50% of its killing potential. The AV will either threaten the ADS through continuous fire, thus forcing the ADS to flee, or will knock the ADS around so much it will be unable to target anything. Every AV proponent in this freakin' game is too myopic (there's a new one for your vocabulary). They don't see how distracting they are and how much thought I have to put into countering them. If they put as much thought into countering ME, they'd really give me a run for my money (I know, because I have an alt that has specced into swarms and I've wrecked ADSs. And I'm only lvl3 using a CBR and a Min Assault for Christ's sake!)
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game 100	Posted - 2014.09.02 00:45:00 - [37] - Quote Forge guns are already impressive at killing drop ships... They can target from 300 m You don't even render for me at 300m... Forge guns require a degree of skill in aiming. Swarms can fire 3 volleys in less than 5 seconds. A pilot should not be forced to run complex 120mm plate just to "survive" 1 swam launcher Tanks can kill infantry much more efficiently and have higher base hp than all but one special fit of ads, a fit that results in a repair rate of 75/s +25% with skills. I would suggest a buff to assault swarms giving them a faster speed but less damage for drop ships. The standard swarms would travel slower but pack a larger punch. This would finally give it a purpose and add some speciality vs ds in comparison to tanks. Undoubtedly commandos carrying an assault and a standard swarm would be extreme av specialists prepared for both threats NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
Atiim 11793	Posted - 2014.09.02 00:52:00 - [38] - Quote @manboar thunder fist Good job on that Strawman. Though if you must know, I do indeed fly Assault Dropships and I can even show you in-game if you'd like. As for that Forge Gunner, considering how the max damage of an IAFG is 1983HP (1785HP against Shields), I highly doubt you're being truthful unless he hit your weakspot (which would be working as intended, as you exposed you weakspot). You don't even need to "brick tank" to survive 3 volleys, but with that fitting I displayed you'd still be able to survive even if all 3 of the volleys were to connect, while still having ample time to escape outside of their lock range (1.73s). Yes, the Matari Commando is necessary if you have the intent of killing an Assault Dropship (or well built HAV). Without it, you're only dealing 1000HP, which can easily be negated by a Python touting a Shield Hardener (reducing it to 600HP). That's less than what a MLT AV Grenade would be. At that point you'd be better off trying to kill it with a Breach MD. No, Assault Dropships should not cost as much as AV fittings. AVers put themselves at risk to literally every weapon in the game besides Swarm Launchers and AV Grenades (which ironically are also AV weapons). ADSs on the other hand, only put themselves at risk to AV weapons (less than 10% of the weapons in DUST 514), and KDSs. Because of this, your odds of dying are much less than the AVer, which equates to a higher price. @Kallas Hallytyr eHP includes the base Armor, not just Shield HP. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game 100	Posted - 2014.09.02 01:07:00 - [39] - Quote Max dmg with or without dmg mods? Why should an ads have a weak spot like that anyway? Swarms always chase from behind if an ads is running and so will always connect on the weak spot if they can catch up to a fleeing ads... At that mark the extra damage would kill the ads you claimed "would be on low hp". Maybe it should be a tiny panel like tanks have to genuinely make it a skill shot. Love how you change your numbers so easily... 600 dmg to suit your cause and shock the audience when you mentioned 3 swarms do 3744 earlier . A hardener is an active module and once it's down the ads must retreat... Not like it can stay for long with the hardener anyway NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
Atiim 11793	Posted - 2014.09.02 01:08:00 - [40] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: PPS: I don't think any swarmer should be able to solo a Python or Incubus in one clip. Indeed. The only vehicle that should ever go down in 3 Swarms are: LAVs Base / Poorly Fitted HAVs Base / Poorly Fitted DSs Base / Poorly Fitted ADSs DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND

Joel II X Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3235	Posted - 2014.09.02 01:10:00 - [41] - Quote Lies. An adv swarm won't kill an ads with three err swarms. At least the Pythons. Then again... 0 prof and not on a minmatar Commando...
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game 100	Posted - 2014.09.02 01:11:00 - [42] - Quote The point of this thread is not to debate on the ehp and fittings of various pilots... But to ensure swarms aren't continuously buffed until they give no ads a chance like you're rooting for them to be. And your "vulnerable to others argument " doesn't work here, flux grenades can down a python flying low, tanks shoot at ads pilots, people try to ram, not to mention we are all constantly engaged in a battle against each other for air superiority NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game 100	Posted - 2014.09.02 01:14:00 - [43] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Lies. An adv swarm won't kill an ads with three err swarms. At least the Pythons. Then again... 0 prof and not on a minmatar Commando... Depends on the fit. It won't get a 4247 inky or a 2555 hardened/boosted python By I've killed ads proto pilots with dmg mods on cbr7s when they don't run away after the first 2 volleys NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1959	Posted - 2014.09.02 01:18:00 - [44] - Quote Atiim wrote: @manboar thunder fist As for that Forge Gunner, considering how the max damage of an IAFG is 1983HP (1785HP against Shields), I highly doubt you're being truthful unless he hit your weakspot (which would be working as intended, as you exposed you weak spot). He's not, unless it's a crap fit Python. One thing about hardeners: they're good, when they're on, but even complex hardeners have a crazy cool down, taking a pilot out of the fight longer than if he had simply retreated. I don't find them very useful and think they actually turn to the AVer's favor. The typical passive tanked python has about 3-3.1k shield ehp, so by your own numbers it takes 3 shots to down a Python. The first hit is granted because the Python is unaware, and now the second shot is charging. By the time the pilot has assessed the situation, activated his AB, and began the acceleration away (typically up), the second shot is either shot or almost there. Since the python has a 125m/s velocity w/ an AB and the forge has a 400m range, the Python has 3.2 seconds to escape, so accounting for evasive maneuvering and acceleration, the forge does have a chance to kill it if he's a good shot. You don't even need to "brick tank" to survive 3 volleys, but with that fitting I displayed you'd still be able to survive even if all 3 of the volleys were to connect, while still having ample time to escape outside of their lock range (1.73s). I really don't believe that any 1 AVer should be able to easily solo an ADS, especially one fitted with an AB, that would be completely imbalanced if more than one AVer decided to fight. Now, you have to admit that even as an ADS pilot, you either runaway from AV or focus completely on it whenever it's attacking you. You have to, or else you'll die or you can't do what you were doing. This is AV's role: to deter and preoccupy vehicles, not necessarily kill them. Yes, the Matari Commando is necessary if you have the intent of killing an Assault Dropship (or well built HAV). Without it, you're only dealing 1000HP, which can easily be negated by a Python touting a Shield Hardener (reducing it to 600HP). See above. Killing shouldn't be the goal for a single AVer, deterrence should be. No, Assault Dropships should not cost as much as AV fittings. AVers put themselves at risk to literally every weapon in the game besides Swarm Launchers and AV Grenades (which ironically are also AV weapons). ADSs on the other hand, only put themselves at risk to AV weapons (less than 10% of the weapons in DUST 514), and KDSs. Because of this, your odds of dying are much less than the AVer, which equates to a higher price. @Kallas Hallytyr eHP includes the base Armor, not just Shield HP. I usually find my armor to be inconsequential, but numbers are numbers I guess. My responses in italics.
Atiim 11793	Posted - 2014.09.02 01:19:00 - [45] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Max dmg with or without dmg mods? Why should an ads have a weak spot like that anyway? Swarms always chase from behind if an ads is running and so will always connect on the weak spot if they can catch up to a fleeing ads... At that mark the extra damage would kill the ads you claimed "would be on low hp". Maybe it should be a tiny panel like tanks have to genuinely make it a skill shot. ADSs should have weakspots so that they'll be punished for standing there in one spot without being aware of their surroundings. It's not an issue if you're constantly rotating. Though that situation would only happen if you were running in a perfectly straight line, which shouldn't be a valid way of evading Swarms anyways. manboar thunder fist wrote: Love how you change your numbers so easily... 600 dmg to suit your cause and shock the audience when you mentioned 3 swarms do 3744 earlier . A hardener is an active module and once it's down the ads must retreat... Not like it can stay for long with the hardener anyway In that case I'm referring to damage per volley. When I mentioned values such as 3k or 4k I was referring to an entire clip. Though I admit that it could be misleading if misinterpreted, so I'll clarify here. If that pilot is running a Shield Hardener, you'll only be dealing 1800 DPM (damage per magazine), which is still pathetically low. Though I fail to see how ADSs being forced to retreat when their mods are down is a problem. You seem to forget that current HAVs are balanced around a "waves of opportunity" philosophy. edit: Isn't there a skill which increases the Up-time of Modules, as well as another skill which decreases their downtime? Perhaps you should should spec into those. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game 100	Posted - 2014.09.02 01:30:00 - [46] - Quote Sorry your highness but incubus hardeners are pathetic . The weak spots are excessively large and aren't hard to hit at all, they can be seen from all angles of the ship. Swarms can also cut corners, be invisible and knockback dropships. It seems the majority of problems you point out involve pythons tanking present av. Perhaps the lack of anti shield av and the current armor tipped explosive damage profiles are the issue that should be addressed rather than flat buffs. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 970	Posted - 2014.09.02 03:19:00 - [47] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Now I'm confused. One pilot says 3 proto swarm volleys are guaranteed to drop any ADS. The next pilot says only if the swarms are high proficiency and damage amp'd. The next pilot says only if the ADS isn't HP tanked. The next pilot says no one HP tanks the ADS. So which is it? PS: I run damage amp'd proficiency 5 proto swarms; I have never solo'd a Python or Incubus; I have landed an entire clip on both on numerous, separate occasions. PPS: I don't think any swarmer should be able to solo a Python or Incubus in one clip. Well, what I can tell you for a fact is this: my Python has 3100+ something shields (not ingame right now). 3 volleys of proto swarms without dmg mods take down my shields to 180. Next volley kills me if I don't have time to recharge shields. Now, what I prefer to do is fight, not run. So I take your 3 volleys and hope to every miracle there are that there's no more AV and try to kill you during your reload, if I fail, I'm dead, afterburner will not save me anymore at that point. If I try to kill you while you are not reloading I have to be very lucky to land a shot / enough shots to kill you with all the knockback going on.
rob cap lad Savage Bullet 5	Posted - 2014.09.07 11:29:00 - [48] - Quote [quote=manboar thunder fist]Before you assume the worst let me point out a few facts: 2 particle cannon shots take out ads 3 swarm volleys kill ads 2 afg shots destroy ads 1 40k gorgon rammer burns ads 1 bump with a building decimates ads Also consider this: Even with afterburner on after 1st volley hits the second volley of swarm always connects With 1 volley of swarms it is possible for fg to 1 shot ads Afterburner provides acceleration boost NOT speed boost Fuel injector does provide speed boost Typical ads costs 500k and requires sp in vehicles, dropships, assault dropships, factional dropships, armour upgrades, armour optimisation, armour repair, armour composition, shield upgrades, shield optimisation, shield depleted recharge, core skills and all small turret skills. Typical proto swarm requires any dropsuit, weaponry, light weaponry and swarm launcher + proficiency and reload. And costs 60k Losing an ads a match is not viable economically. Currently swarms severely damage and kill ads in one clip... The good pilots use their afterburner and flight skills to dodge the 3rd volley of swarms. There are maye maximum 200 ads pilots, 30 max do pc There are countless swarm launchers and any 2 av infantry working together will kill ads easily as you know manboar i have my swarm maxed and a lvl 4 mim commando and how fast did i kill yo? what i 2 shots ya i have expericencd both ads and swarms but i think the swarms are even right. but loseing a 500k ads is stupid i mean us swarms but theres no way we should lose 500k that fast right. supp buds if you need a logi or av guy you came to the right place mail me if u do rob cap lad


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