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manboar thunder fist
Dead Man's Game
90
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Posted - 2014.09.01 01:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Before you assume the worst let me point out a few facts:
2 particle cannon shots take out ads
3 swarm volleys kill ads
2 afg shots destroy ads
1 40k gorgon rammer burns ads
1 bump with a building decimates ads
Also consider this:
Even with afterburner on after 1st volley hits the second volley of swarm always connects
With 1 volley of swarms it is possible for fg to 1 shot ads
Afterburner provides acceleration boost NOT speed boost
Fuel injector does provide speed boost
Typical ads costs 500k and requires sp in vehicles, dropships, assault dropships, factional dropships, armour upgrades, armour optimisation, armour repair, armour composition, shield upgrades, shield optimisation, shield depleted recharge, core skills and all small turret skills.
Typical proto swarm requires any dropsuit, weaponry, light weaponry and swarm launcher + proficiency and reload. And costs 60k
Losing an ads a match is not viable economically.
Currently swarms severely damage and kill ads in one clip... The good pilots use their afterburner and flight skills to dodge the 3rd volley of swarms. There are maye maximum 200 ads pilots, 30 max do pc
There are countless swarm launchers and any 2 av infantry working together will kill ads easily
I'm sick of people wanting a god mode easy win dumb fire swarm launcher
If any CCP dev has a problem with my statements make a video of you "completely ignoring av" in the "fotm ads"
NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES
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manboar thunder fist
Dead Man's Game
93
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Posted - 2014.09.01 05:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lol it's ok. I understand as a Matari commando you want to be able to kill any vehicle as soon as you lock on to it...
Try a little less paper calculation... Last time I was hit by an afg it was royal giedro from fa dealing 2590 damage. That's enough to 2 shot me. Once you get out there in a ds and are hit by swarms you'll see just how effective they are.
With the incubus fitting you mentioned the swarms will definitely connect due to armor plate penalty.
Most pilots do not brick tank like crazy, these aren't scrub dropsuits.
Even if a pilot stacks armor plates their rep rate will be so low it will take them excessive amounts of time to get back into fighting shape. In addition swarms can be fired from doorways and openings in cover. There is no cover in the air. Swarm launchers can also swap out at supply depots to constantly regen their suit. We can do silly stuff like that.
It doesn't take a minmatar commando to kill an ads... Any suit with a wirykomi swarm launcher works just as well to apply marginally lower dmg on target very quickly and easily... Being vulnerable is hardly a problem, you have your team, cover and sidearm to fall back on.
And as to your reference to numbers... If av/v calculation is one on one they should be equally costly... Not to mention there should be an ads for every swarm launcher out there.... Sorry but having a swarm on your op cr minmando doesn't make you god mode
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manboar thunder fist
Dead Man's Game
94
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Posted - 2014.09.01 07:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tesfa this is good argument ^^
Meee One wrote:
It's funny you single out the "50,000 isk swarm launcher".
Yet you mention the whole dropship.
That suit can't escape from you,you can however escape from him.
You have 3x his ammo and damage easily,in an endurance battle you'd win.
You can (possibly) 1-2 shot his suit,which may be Pro,costing him possibly 100k minimal.
Your main weapon doesn't put you at an overwhelming disadvantage vs other vehicles like swarms do for infantry vs infantry.
And if you're using missiles you can spam them very innacurately to great effect,while the swarm launcher makes you defenseless and requires directly looking at a target to lock on.
And you can easily kill groups of infantry with a few missiles,yet infantry must use several salvoes to temporarily drive you off.
You can easily terminate groups of infantry with 1 pilot using 1 ADS.
You CANNOT easily terminate 1 ADS using 1 infantry AV.
Costs equal possible damage caused,they are perfectly acceptable.
The suit may be a proto suit but my drop ship isnt at proto level either which i why i mention the price of my ship with only ADV modules, turret included. The proto suit isnt used exclusivley for av its just a fit you have on your proto suit. Also proto could only cost 8K isk and 155 loyalty points. currently what 20 AUR? 1 FW and you're set.1 drop ship loss is 3 matches just to try to break even. flying one out four matches just to not go isk negative, yep balanced.
Suits can get away by finding cover. Suits get killed when they're out in the open without cover, exaclty the same as a firefight. You get caught crossing an open area somebody with a rail rifle will take you down. I don't see how this uniquely apllies to dropships.
Thats funny because commando suits like the MK.0 are great for swarms and infantyr to point where rattati is about to nerf the **** out of projectile weapons. The only pure disadvantage is if you use a gal/cal/min logi suit as your swarm fit. Sidearms man, or in the case of commandos another light weapon. Also if infantry are wiping you out on the ground before you can even get a good look at a vehicle with swarms your prioritizing the big scary flying thing in the air over hte roving bands or infantry killing your team thats where you are making the worng tactical choice.
With missile "spam" we only have 8 shots before reloading. It looks innacurate on the ground because we have to fire using a white crosshair thrgouh the back of a white ship. We litterally cannot see the target we have to fire when the red dot over his head matches up. like you said tow or three missiles hits to kill a suit, generally its about 3 to five rounds if your a good shot.
In an endurance battle no way with proto swarms doing around 1.2K damage with a bonus vs armor, even if i survive his third volley i certainly wont survive whatever else is incoming. That why drops ships afterburn away after the first hit because we dont know what else is comming.
My main weapon isn't some top secret classified specialized nuke. Its a small turret. Anybody with a LAV can use them. I'm still waiting for people to say LAVs with heavy gunners are so OP.
If kill a group of 3 players 3x50 150 WP. You get two salvoes off 2X75 =150 WP.
Obviously if i'm in a vehicle the poor old infantry WITHOUT AV are going to have a bad time.
1 forge gunner can do a really good job of terminating a dropship. The forge round hoever doest follow me all over the sky.1 wyrokami with take less time to find a lock than the forger gunner will hurt me pretty badly and get minmimum 75 wp just by looking in my direction.
If costs equal possible damage cause then why do tanks with MUCH more HP, large mounted turrets, and higher DPS cost less?
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
All credit to tests alem
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manboar thunder fist
Dead Man's Game
99
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 23:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Shooter Somewhere wrote:2 particle cannon shots take out ads
3 swarm volleys kill ads
2 afg shots destroy ads
1 40k gorgon rammer burns ads
1 bump with a building decimates ads
1: Wrong. 7-8 kill your ADS you must have poor skills if it takes only 2.
2: only 3? suggest your a wanna be python stomper which is why. and my python it takes 4 and im out on the 1st so you suck
3: 2 AFK? it should take 3. again what a poorly built ADS.
4. a 40k burns your ADS? WRONG AGAIN. it evaporates it in mid air.
5. your a really crap pilot I have to be throw into a building by AV. my inc rams into buildings to straighten it out my ptython handles itself fine on a little bump.
practice with Myron's first buddy sure AV is OP but that does not mean everything else that wants to kill you is as well.
1. Do you even pc bro? 2 shots from a dmg mod particle cannon will wreck
2. 3 wirykomi swarm volleys with dmg mods or proficiency or minmando will kill the average ads. A fw brick tank variations might survive in couple hundred hp
3. You clearly don't play against the best forge gunners so don't even comment
4. What is even your point here? My gorgon costs 26000
5. If a swarm launcher knocks me into something I die. Must you insult your intelligence by resorting to name calling? It's adapt that drop ships have unique texture properties different to tanks resulting in high collision damage
Please get good before you comment on someone else's ability to Fly or ill rip your python a new one
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manboar thunder fist
Dead Man's Game
99
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Posted - 2014.09.01 23:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
The last thing I want is an op ads...
It needs to be a high skill vehicle sure
But remember pilots need to learn to fly too...
You can't simply comment on the best pilots like derrith and espeon... Anyone with a swarm launcher can use it. How are people meant to learn to fly with the av ideas you are suggesting? I myself run an av swarm commando with gauged hives and a gal sentinel with iafg... If you have any issues with vehicle survivabilitu I am willing to sit there and let you shoot at me provided you pay when I am shown to be correct and die
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manboar thunder fist
Dead Man's Game
100
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 00:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Forge guns are already impressive at killing drop ships... They can target from 300 m
You don't even render for me at 300m...
Forge guns require a degree of skill in aiming.
Swarms can fire 3 volleys in less than 5 seconds.
A pilot should not be forced to run complex 120mm plate just to "survive" 1 swam launcher
Tanks can kill infantry much more efficiently and have higher base hp than all but one special fit of ads, a fit that results in a repair rate of 75/s +25% with skills.
I would suggest a buff to assault swarms giving them a faster speed but less damage for drop ships. The standard swarms would travel slower but pack a larger punch. This would finally give it a purpose and add some speciality vs ds in comparison to tanks. Undoubtedly commandos carrying an assault and a standard swarm would be extreme av specialists prepared for both threats
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manboar thunder fist
Dead Man's Game
100
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 01:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Max dmg with or without dmg mods?
Why should an ads have a weak spot like that anyway? Swarms always chase from behind if an ads is running and so will always connect on the weak spot if they can catch up to a fleeing ads... At that mark the extra damage would kill the ads you claimed "would be on low hp". Maybe it should be a tiny panel like tanks have to genuinely make it a skill shot.
Love how you change your numbers so easily... 600 dmg to suit your cause and shock the audience when you mentioned 3 swarms do 3744 earlier
. A hardener is an active module and once it's down the ads must retreat... Not like it can stay for long with the hardener anyway
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manboar thunder fist
Dead Man's Game
100
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 01:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
The point of this thread is not to debate on the ehp and fittings of various pilots... But to ensure swarms aren't continuously buffed until they give no ads a chance like you're rooting for them to be.
And your "vulnerable to others argument " doesn't work here, flux grenades can down a python flying low, tanks shoot at ads pilots, people try to ram, not to mention we are all constantly engaged in a battle against each other for air superiority
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manboar thunder fist
Dead Man's Game
100
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 01:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Lies. An adv swarm won't kill an ads with three err swarms. At least the Pythons.
Then again... 0 prof and not on a minmatar Commando...
Depends on the fit. It won't get a 4247 inky or a 2555 hardened/boosted python
By I've killed ads proto pilots with dmg mods on cbr7s when they don't run away after the first 2 volleys
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manboar thunder fist
Dead Man's Game
100
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 01:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sorry your highness but incubus hardeners are pathetic . The weak spots are excessively large and aren't hard to hit at all, they can be seen from all angles of the ship. Swarms can also cut corners, be invisible and knockback dropships.
It seems the majority of problems you point out involve pythons tanking present av. Perhaps the lack of anti shield av and the current armor tipped explosive damage profiles are the issue that should be addressed rather than flat buffs.
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