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Her Nibs New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 116	Posted - 2014.08.14 00:45:00 - [1] - Quote As a dedicated AV Profinciency 5 I am discussed at the way CCP has handled the Nerf of the Swarm Launcher. It's no buff when you add it up. The least you could of done is keep the feeling of power when you release the swarms to at least give the player the same sensation of 6 swarms. It the feeling of power I miss....give it back. You nerfed my range, hit points and more...give it a rest. I feel like I am a noob with my very first swarms, ca use that it what it feels like...not even as good as the CBR before the fix. You let Nova Knives take out tanks but not a swarm. WTF. Saw this in a PC...5 guys with Nova Knives took out a Proto Tank....REALLY DEVs...get a sense of balance here. That's like a knife takes out a tank but a bazooka can't. And you wonder why this ame is broken....you keep breaking it..... NOW PLEASE FIX IT and give me back that swarm launcher power feeling. Shoot me or run me over, it becomes personnal.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3284	Posted - 2014.08.14 01:03:00 - [2] - Quote Only proto got nerfed last I checked, but it also got more ammo? And the std and advance straight up got buffed, to make them viable, hence the nerf at pro. I don't see how you can turn all that into a nerf of the entire weapon class. My Minja school
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 773	Posted - 2014.08.14 01:17:00 - [3] - Quote I actually like that I can run ADV swarms on my Min Commando now and still royally kitten stupid pilots up. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 469	Posted - 2014.08.14 03:36:00 - [4] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Only proto got nerfed last I checked, but it also got more ammo? And the std and advance straight up got buffed, to make them viable, hence the nerf at pro. I don't see how you can turn all that into a nerf of the entire weapon class. pro with damage module x3 is only like 20 damage less then old proto swarms.. but we have o take into account that pythons got 500 more hp(or was it 600) on their shields [LogiBro in Training] channel: BP SQUAD
Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1550	Posted - 2014.08.14 04:28:00 - [5] - Quote You lost a grand total of 72 damage at the proto level. Cry me a river. Rest in peace, o captain, my captain.
Gabriel Ceja Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 39	Posted - 2014.08.14 05:10:00 - [6] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Only proto got nerfed last I checked, but it also got more ammo? And the std and advance straight up got buffed, to make them viable, hence the nerf at pro. I don't see how you can turn all that into a nerf of the entire weapon class. pro with damage module x3 is only like 20 damage less then old proto swarms.. but we have o take into account that pythons got 500 more hp(or was it 600) on their shields You can't take that into account because they did not go through with giving the python the extra shields. "Throw on the flux capacitor." activates fuel injector "WOOOOOO!!!"
emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 171	Posted - 2014.08.14 05:20:00 - [7] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: but we have o take into account that pythons got 500 more hp(or was it 600) on their shields that was cancelled. -- You called, sir?
Cody Sietz Evzones 3835	Posted - 2014.08.14 05:24:00 - [8] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: You lost a grand total of 72 damage at the proto level. Cry me a river. While I disagree with the OP, I have to point out that swarms were nerfed over and over again. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 277	Posted - 2014.08.14 08:39:00 - [9] - Quote Her Nibs wrote: I feel like I am a noob with my very first swarms, That's how you're supposed to feel with such an easymode weapon... Working as intended.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4096	Posted - 2014.08.14 12:08:00 - [10] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Her Nibs wrote: I feel like I am a noob with my very first swarms, That's how you're supposed to feel with such an easymode weapon... Working as intended. Nothing easy about getting into optimal range of a vehicle with many multiples of your mobility. Nothing easy about getting volleys onto target before target zooms off, well out-of-range. Nothing easy about syncing strikes with allied AV (if intent is to destroy). Nothing easy about surviving after firing swarms. Easy Mode? * Take Damage * Hit Afterburners What Nibs is saying is that Swarms now "feel weak" (i.e. perception / sight / sound) when a volley is released; the fact that they Swarms are weak doesn't help the new feel. Swarms need help; they feel and perform terribly. - Proficiency 5 Swarms Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley

DaNizzle4shizle New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 904	Posted - 2014.08.14 13:43:00 - [11] - Quote yes. i am shooting peas' out of my launcher. all i want really is the nice feeling of power behind each shot. +12 nibs Desire means never quit. -New Age Empire. Director of logistics and recruitment. ,msg me in game. #QQRoman
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 1004	Posted - 2014.08.14 14:57:00 - [12] - Quote Proficiency 2. Commando. 2 Damage Mods. Killed 3 vehicles just yesterday. Assisted many others forging. Not disappointed. Fail to see the issue. Knights of Ender Director Logi 4 Life \| Youtube Vids
DaNizzle4shizle New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 907	Posted - 2014.08.18 14:22:00 - [13] - Quote its simply not the damage that they have. but the kick they had. the reason many went with swarms was because of the power Desire means never quit. -New Age Empire. Director of logistics and recruitment. ,msg me in game. #QQRoman
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1560	Posted - 2014.08.18 16:12:00 - [14] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: You lost a grand total of 72 damage at the proto level. Cry me a river. While I disagree with the OP, I have to point out that swarms were nerfed over and over again. Swarms could also kill anything in a single magazine with no proficiency. They were insanely op. The Nerf they got in 1.7 was justified. What was not justified was the vehicle buff that came with it. Rest in peace, oh Captain, my Captain.
Coleman Gray Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1087	Posted - 2014.08.18 17:49:00 - [15] - Quote It took 5 guys a tank out with knives, why do you think you shouldn't need at least one partner in AV to kill a tank? If Preparation is half of the battle and knowing is the other half, Then there is no need to fight.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2702	Posted - 2014.08.18 18:28:00 - [16] - Quote Imo it's fine, after all it's a fire and forget weapon. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 719	Posted - 2014.08.18 19:18:00 - [17] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Imo it's fine, after all it's a fire and forget weapon. I agree, I think Swarms are sufficiently dangerous for a relatively simple to use weapon. AV/V balance is pretty damn good right now. If ADS get a price cut, I'd like to see no lower than 150k, and personally I think 200k is roughly on the money, no pun intended. Alt of Halla Murr.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1100	Posted - 2014.08.19 01:32:00 - [18] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Her Nibs wrote: I feel like I am a noob with my very first swarms, That's how you're supposed to feel with such an easymode weapon... Working as intended. Nothing easy about getting into optimal range of a vehicle with many times your top speed. Nothing easy about getting three volleys onto target before target zips off well out-of-range. Nothing easy about syncing these strikes with allied AV (absolutely required if intent is to destroy). Nothing easy about surviving during and after firing swarms. Easy Mode, you say? * Farm * Take Damage * Hit Afterburners ^ Please explain. How is this difficult? What Nibs is saying is that Swarms now "feel weak" (i.e. perception / sight / sound) when a volley is released; the fact that Swarms are in fact weak doesn't help the new feel. TL;DR -- Swarms are bad. Now Swarms feel bad. - Proficiency 5 Swarms This is the same attitude that snipers have to deal with , what weapon actually uses skills then ??? Let's see , the community says that Snipers don't , now it's AV swarmers , Tankers get called out on a daily for not " using skill " , so what is a skilled weapon then ? Can anyone say , is it the shotgun or NK's ??? This is why things are so broken in this game , partly because the lack of respect that many in the community has towards those who choose to play roles besides the one's that they play . It's just sad how someone can toil and work hard , max out something like swarms for instance ... something that goes undervalued all the time and once was a rallying point for the changes that eventually happened to HAV's , can't say dropships because they weren't effected as much or at all and now another role hits the chopping block but I guess if HAV's were still a problem then you would hear a rallying cry for swarms to be buffed . It's just sad how this merry-go-round just doesn't stop , neither does it effect those who it really needs to . * Cough * " Shotguns and Nova Knives . " * Cough * I see shotguns two shot Sentinels and nova knives two swipe them as well but I have to unload 3 rounds of my Prof 3 swarms on my Min Commando , just to destroy a LAV but I guess that's " working as intended " . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
Zindorak 1.U.P 632	Posted - 2014.08.19 03:33:00 - [19] - Quote Good now ADS flying has less risk Pokemon master
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3864	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:16:00 - [20] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: You lost a grand total of 72 damage at the proto level. Cry me a river. While I disagree with the OP, I have to point out that swarms were nerfed over and over again. Swarms could also kill anything in a single magazine with no proficiency. They were insanely op. The Nerf they got in 1.7 was justified. What was not justified was the vehicle buff that came with it. And yet both happened. So I fail to see your point. Please explain how this progression makes sense: Swarms nerfed Vehicles buffed Swarms nerfed again... But only by 72 hp so that's OK? (And, as pointed out, the OP wants some of the "feel" back, not a buff per se.) (The godfather of tactical logistics)

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3861	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:18:00 - [21] - Quote Her Nibs wrote: As a dedicated AV Profinciency 5 I am discussed at the way CCP has handled the Nerf of the Swarm Launcher. It's no buff when you add it up. The least you could of done is keep the feeling of power when you release the swarms to at least give the player the same sensation of 6 swarms. It the feeling of power I miss....give it back. You nerfed my range, hit points and more...give it a rest. I feel like I am a noob with my very first swarms, ca use that it what it feels like...not even as good as the CBR before the fix. You let Nova Knives take out tanks but not a swarm. WTF. Saw this in a PC...5 guys with Nova Knives took out a Proto Tank....REALLY DEVs...get a sense of balance here. That's like a knife takes out a tank but a bazooka can't. And you wonder why this ame is broken....you keep breaking it..... NOW PLEASE FIX IT and give me back that swarm launcher power feeling. But you are a noob You are using a weapon that requires no skill You are using a weapon that require no aim The weapon is more skilled that you Also in the hotfix basic and adv swarms do more base damage, dmg mods are buffed and offset the nerf done to proto, no longer can pilots see if its proto/adv swarms since they all fire 4 missiles, its an overall buff and also your firing animation is quicker with just 4 missiles than 6 so you can fire quicker
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4255	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:50:00 - [22] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Her Nibs wrote: As a dedicated AV Profinciency 5 I am discussed at the way CCP has handled the Nerf of the Swarm Launcher. It's no buff when you add it up. The least you could of done is keep the feeling of power when you release the swarms to at least give the player the same sensation of 6 swarms. It the feeling of power I miss....give it back. You nerfed my range, hit points and more...give it a rest. I feel like I am a noob with my very first swarms, ca use that it what it feels like...not even as good as the CBR before the fix. You let Nova Knives take out tanks but not a swarm. WTF. Saw this in a PC...5 guys with Nova Knives took out a Proto Tank....REALLY DEVs...get a sense of balance here. That's like a knife takes out a tank but a bazooka can't. And you wonder why this ame is broken....you keep breaking it..... NOW PLEASE FIX IT and give me back that swarm launcher power feeling. But you are a noob You are using a weapon that requires no skill You are using a weapon that require no aim The weapon is more skilled that you Also in the hotfix basic and adv swarms do more base damage, dmg mods are buffed and offset the nerf done to proto, no longer can pilots see if its proto/adv swarms since they all fire 4 missiles, its an overall buff and also your firing animation is quicker with just 4 missiles than 6 so you can fire quicker 1. OP has been around as long as the rest of us. She's among the best support players in the game. She isn't a "slayer" but that doesn't make her a noob. While I understand such behavior to be commonplace among those lacking in balls and spine, you are a fool to attempt to degrade this merc's standing. 2. There's substantially higher risk of harm to user in running swarms than in running HAV or ADS. The swarm user's "easy lock-on weaponry" can't engage from distance; he has to get in close enough to punch the dragon. That involves huge personal risk both before, during and after volleying swarms. And what of the dragon? The dragon feeds at zero risk then scurries off at the first sign of trouble. Should he take damage, he is fully recovered and back to feeding within seconds. TL;DR HAV / ADS - High Reward / Low Risk Schwarms - Low Reward / High Risk Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
H0riz0n Unlimit Inner.Hell 122	Posted - 2014.08.19 13:36:00 - [23] - Quote But no one talks about how OP they are, they can follow you everywhere escaping buildings Tanker since I was born -- Want back my blaster -- Madrugar 1125/6753 -- Reduce weakspot dimension
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3861	Posted - 2014.08.19 13:39:00 - [24] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Her Nibs wrote: As a dedicated AV Profinciency 5 I am discussed at the way CCP has handled the Nerf of the Swarm Launcher. It's no buff when you add it up. The least you could of done is keep the feeling of power when you release the swarms to at least give the player the same sensation of 6 swarms. It the feeling of power I miss....give it back. You nerfed my range, hit points and more...give it a rest. I feel like I am a noob with my very first swarms, ca use that it what it feels like...not even as good as the CBR before the fix. You let Nova Knives take out tanks but not a swarm. WTF. Saw this in a PC...5 guys with Nova Knives took out a Proto Tank....REALLY DEVs...get a sense of balance here. That's like a knife takes out a tank but a bazooka can't. And you wonder why this ame is broken....you keep breaking it..... NOW PLEASE FIX IT and give me back that swarm launcher power feeling. But you are a noob You are using a weapon that requires no skill You are using a weapon that require no aim The weapon is more skilled that you Also in the hotfix basic and adv swarms do more base damage, dmg mods are buffed and offset the nerf done to proto, no longer can pilots see if its proto/adv swarms since they all fire 4 missiles, its an overall buff and also your firing animation is quicker with just 4 missiles than 6 so you can fire quicker 1. OP has been around as long as the rest of us. She's among the best support players in the game. She isn't a "slayer" but that doesn't make her a noob. You are a fool to attempt to degrade this merc's standing. From this we can gather that what you lack in balls and spine, you've not made up with wit and brains. Which begs question. If every merc is good at something, what are idiot-coward mercs best at doing? What are your strengths, Taki? 2. There's substantially higher risk of harm to user in running swarms than in running HAV or ADS. The swarm user's "easy lock-on weaponry" can't engage from distance; he has to get in close enough to punch the dragon. That involves huge personal risk before, during and after volleying swarms. Where the dragon feeds, his friends gather to pickup scraps, and an exposed swarmer is always ripe for picking. And what of the dragon? The dragon feeds at zero risk then scurries off at the first sign of trouble. Should he take damage, he is fully recovered and back to feeding within seconds. TL;DR HAV / ADS - High Reward / Low Risk Schwarms - Low Reward / High Risk How to Fix HAV / ADS - Nerf recovery, such that when repelled they remain repelled for longer than a few seconds. Schwarms - Buff range, such that the act of repelling might not doom the operator. 1. Gibberish, using a noob weapon so noob, it is the easiest weapon to use in the game and require 0 skill or aim 2. Higher risk but again easiest weapon to use in the game which require 0 aim or skill Nerf vehicles again, lol why dont you use a FG? What range would that be? dont ask for 400m either
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4256	Posted - 2014.08.19 14:13:00 - [25] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: 1. Gibberish, using a noob weapon so noob, it is the easiest weapon to use in the game and require 0 skill or aim 2. Higher risk but again easiest weapon to use in the game which require 0 aim or skill 3. Nerf vehicles again, lol 4. why dont you use a FG? 5. What range would that be? dont ask for 400m either 1. Positioning and survival require skill, risk, effort and planning. Running away when hit requires none of these. 2. See #1. 3. Yes. Still paying high rewards at low risk; low risk which further mitigated by near-instant recovery times. 4. Because I skilled into Swarms and believe that all weapons should be viable. 5. I'd add 25-50 meters in Delta, and -- if needed -- another 25-50 meters in Echo. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3861	Posted - 2014.08.19 14:58:00 - [26] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: 1. Gibberish, using a noob weapon so noob, it is the easiest weapon to use in the game and require 0 skill or aim 2. Higher risk but again easiest weapon to use in the game which require 0 aim or skill 3. Nerf vehicles again, lol 4. why dont you use a FG? 5. What range would that be? dont ask for 400m either 1. Positioning and survival require skill, risk, effort and planning. Get hit, run away requires none of these. 2. See #1. 3. Yes. Still paying high rewards at low risk; lengthened recovery would add meaning to being chased away. 4. Because I skilled into Swarms and believe that all weapons should be viable. 5. I'd add 50 meters in Delta, and -- if needed -- another 25-50 meters in Echo. 1. Half the time they are on top of something waiting for the ADS to come around, thats lazyness and do you expect me to hover in front of you while you shoot me down? 2... 3. lol vehicles are easy to destroy, plus you dont even have to deal with any better varients or adv/proto hulls 4. Swarms should be bottom of the AV ladder or if you like you have to guide the missiles by keeping lock on that should stop fire and forget while you happen to be behind a hill but can lock on without looking and fire upwards without losing lock 5. So whats that 250m lock on? Missiles still have 400m range so essentially you want to be able to be in the middle of the map and lock onto everything
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4258	Posted - 2014.08.19 15:22:00 - [27] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: 1. Half the time they are on top of something waiting for the ADS to come around, thats lazyness and do you expect me to hover in front of you while you shoot me down? 2... 3. lol vehicles are easy to destroy, plus you dont even have to deal with any better varients or adv/proto hulls 4. Swarms should be bottom of the AV ladder or if you like you have to guide the missiles by keeping lock on that should stop fire and forget while you happen to be behind a hill but can lock on without looking and fire upwards without losing lock 5. So whats that 250m lock on? Missiles still have 400m range so essentially you want to be able to be in the middle of the map and lock onto everything Are these arguments or statements? OK ... Statements 1 and 3 wrong. Statement 4 is an opinion. Statement 5 is close. Swarms are presently a death sentence to their user; they shouldn't be. Increase range to 225m in Delta, and -- if necessary -- 250-275m in Echo. Pilots can still run away when hit; Swarms don't kill anything in one clip. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3861	Posted - 2014.08.19 15:32:00 - [28] - Quote 1 is what i see very often, 3 is right and frankly doesnt take much these days to make it next to useless or kill it since it cant defend itself anymore 5 equip a sidearm and you can fire off a 3 rounds in 4seconds and to a tank you wont outrun any swarms only ADS has a chance
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4258	Posted - 2014.08.19 15:40:00 - [29] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: 1 is what i see very often, 3 is right and frankly doesnt take much these days to make it next to useless or kill it since it cant defend itself anymore 5 equip a sidearm and you can fire off a 3 rounds in 4seconds and to a tank you wont outrun any swarms only ADS has a chance Getting off 3 volleys isn't the problem. The problem is how close we have to get to deliver 3 volleys. Where there's a vehicle there is infantry. A swarmer near infantry has low odds of survival. Let's contrast the above with an HAV or ADS, which can literally sit in or over an enemy position and farm until something shoots expensive shoots back. At which point, it leaves and is fully repaired within seconds. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11514	Posted - 2014.08.19 15:45:00 - [30] - Quote Coleman Gray wrote: It took 5 guys a tank out with knives, why do you think you shouldn't need at least one partner in AV to kill a tank? Because that same tank needs only one person? If 1x > 1y then why would I ever use Y over X? DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4262	Posted - 2014.08.19 16:01:00 - [31] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: You lost a grand total of 72 damage at the proto level. Cry me a river. While I disagree with the OP, I have to point out that swarms were nerfed over and over again. Swarms could also kill anything in a single magazine with no proficiency. They were insanely op. The Nerf they got in 1.7 was justified. What was not justified was the vehicle buff that came with it. They overdid it. It now takes an entire clip of max proficiency proto swarms to kill an unmodified LAV. Further, if the target is moving (most do) you have be within Fine Rifle range to have any chance of landing those 3 volleys. H0riz0n Unlimit wrote: But no one talks about how OP they are, they can follow you everywhere escaping buildings The dumbest of pilots can outsmart the swarms' tracking system. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3862	Posted - 2014.08.19 17:09:00 - [32] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: 1 is what i see very often, 3 is right and frankly doesnt take much these days to make it next to useless or kill it since it cant defend itself anymore 5 equip a sidearm and you can fire off a 3 rounds in 4seconds and to a tank you wont outrun any swarms only ADS has a chance Getting off 3 volleys isn't the problem. The problem is how close we have to get to deliver 3 volleys. Where there's a vehicle there are also infantry. Always. A swarmer near infantry has extremely low odds of survival. Our reward? We might clear the airspace or scare away a tank for a few seconds; we might earn +75WP. More often then not, we will die. High Risk. Low Reward. Let's contrast the above with an HAV or ADS, which can literally sit in or over an enemy position and farm until someone respawns with AV. When hit, the HAV or ADS might leave; if it chooses to do so, it is fully repaired within seconds. High Reward. Low Risk. You cannot argue that Risk and Reward are balanced in either of the above scenarios. I dont see swarms getting close, they generally wait on top of something or next to a depot ADS is an apple, HAV is an orange So you want swarms to be low risk high reward? do you want vehicles to stop moving when you hit?
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7315	Posted - 2014.08.19 17:30:00 - [33] - Quote I'm going to agree with Taka on this one. In this thread I'm basically seeing that people want to use a Swarm Launcher as a Low Risk High reward weapon. Fact is, that's not good for balance. Swarms are good to keep LAVs away, they are good at keeping Dropships away and they are good at being annoying to HAVs. You don't see Plasma Cannon guys going around crying that they can't lock onto vehicles and not have to worry about aiming when it comes to vehicles. You've got a 200 meter lock range, 400 effective range. Maybe they should come out with different Missiles types to help ease this situation. High Speed Missile Swarms: Longer Range, More Effective Range, Low Guidance, High Speed, Lower Damage. Direct Penetration type Missiles: Same ranges as now, high guidance, low speed, same damage. Idk, something like that. Really I just wanted to say that a low skill, low risk weapon should never weild high gains, ever. And no, switching to a supply depot when you see a vehicle then firing when the gun says it's ok is not skill Lucent Echelon -The Brightest Ranks Gallente Faction Warfare Chanel
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4272	Posted - 2014.08.19 18:38:00 - [34] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: I'm going to agree with Taka on this one. In this thread I'm basically seeing that people want to use a Swarm Launcher as a Low Risk High reward weapon. Fact is, that's not good for balance. Swarms are good to keep LAVs away, they are good at keeping Dropships away and they are good at being annoying to HAVs. You don't see Plasma Cannon guys going around crying that they can't lock onto vehicles and not have to worry about aiming when it comes to vehicles. You've got a 200 meter lock range, 400 effective range. Maybe they should come out with different Missiles types to help ease this situation. High Speed Missile Swarms: Longer Range, More Effective Range, Low Guidance, High Speed, Lower Damage. Direct Penetration type Missiles: Same ranges as now, high guidance, low speed, same damage. Idk, something like that. Really I just wanted to say that a low skill, low risk weapon should never weild high gains, ever. And no, switching to a supply depot when you see a vehicle then firing when the gun says it's ok is not skill You're way off. If Swarms were Low Risk / High Reward they would be imbalanced. No one wants that. No one has asked for that. Swarms are currently extremely High Risk / Low Reward. This is also imbalanced. High Risk / Low Reward isn't OK. There is a problem here that needs to be fixed. I don't claim to have the only solution, but increasing Swarm Range would help. Doing nothing certainly doesn't help, nor do unattainable suggestions. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4272	Posted - 2014.08.19 18:44:00 - [35] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: So you want swarms to be low risk high reward? do you want vehicles to stop moving when you hit? Don't put words my mouth. My goal is to see Risk and Reward brought into balance. What is your goal? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3866	Posted - 2014.08.19 18:46:00 - [36] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: So you want swarms to be low risk high reward? do you want vehicles to stop moving when you hit? Don't put words my mouth. My goal is to see Risk and Reward brought into balance. What is your goal? LOL. We all know tankahiro's goal. It's called Uprising 1.7. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
emtbraincase Savage Bullet 199	Posted - 2014.08.19 18:55:00 - [37] - Quote solve everyone's problems and just increase the speed the missiles travel (hell even make it a proficiency slot or something). Either way, the faster they get there, the less risk of failed shot, while increasing the chance of hitting the target. Doesn't do any more damage than before, So the ADS isn't in more danger initially, but when they get locked, they have to consider leaving then instead of waiting for that second volley. Now please explain to why this doesn'/won't work. EDIT: speed would be faster than an ADS pilot at top speed with an Afterburner. So you can't keep playing Elevator anymore.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4273	Posted - 2014.08.19 18:59:00 - [38] - Quote emtbraincase wrote: solve everyone's problems and just increase the speed the missiles travel (hell even make it a proficiency slot or something). Either way, the faster they get there, the less risk of failed shot, while increasing the chance of hitting the target. Doesn't do any more damage than before, So the ADS isn't in more danger initially, but when they get locked, they have to consider leaving then instead of waiting for that second volley. Now please explain to why this doesn'/won't work. EDIT: speed would be faster than an ADS pilot at top speed with an Afterburner. So you can't keep playing Elevator anymore. Would help. Would not be OP. In favor of Faster Swarm Projectiles. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 719	Posted - 2014.08.19 19:16:00 - [39] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: HAV / ADS - High Reward / Low Risk Schwarms - Low Reward / High Risk How to Fix HAV / ADS - Nerf recovery, such that when repelled they remain repelled for longer than a few seconds. Schwarms - Buff range, such that the simple act of repelling might not doom the operator. Simply untrue. ADS: a single loss = ISK negative for 1-2 battles. That alone is high risk, and with the many different ways that you can go down in flames ADS is most definitely not low risk. High reward, yeah because you can utterly dominate if the enemy team fails to provide resistance. This is pretty much a cases of one side not looking at it from the other's viewpoint. I do run Swarms (CBR7) and I don't kill many ADSs, but I do get a ton of WP from forcing them to back off. Alt of Halla Murr.
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11520	Posted - 2014.08.19 20:02:00 - [40] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: And no, switching to a supply depot when you see a vehicle then firing when the gun says it's ok is not skill It's a good thing it isn't skillfull, because that's not how you use a Swarm Launcher. Well, unless you: Are fighting an Abandoned LAV. Are fighting an HAV Pilot who's AFK. Have no intentions of actually destroying or threatening something. Wish to be killed on the spot by any competent Infantry unit with a Fine Rifle Wish to be killed on the spot by any competent Infantry unit with Nova Knives or a Shotgun I wonder if those who say that SLs require no skill have actually used them, and against more than a Blueberry Tanker... DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3876	Posted - 2014.08.19 20:11:00 - [41] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: So you want swarms to be low risk high reward? do you want vehicles to stop moving when you hit? Don't put words my mouth. My goal is to see Risk and Reward brought into balance. What is your goal? LOL. We all know tankahiro's goal. It's called Uprising 1.7. While it was nice when we got some revenge for the 6+months of OP AV while infantry said 'its fine gg' it didnt last long enough, still owed about 3 months Simple what i want 1. Racial parity 2. Adv/proto hulls 3. Bring back the variety of mods/turrets and hulls we had 4. Skills with passive bonuses and more of them
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4285	Posted - 2014.08.19 20:34:00 - [42] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: HAV / ADS - High Reward / Low Risk Schwarms - Low Reward / High Risk How to Fix HAV / ADS - Nerf recovery, such that when repelled they remain repelled for longer than a few seconds. Schwarms - Buff range, such that the simple act of repelling might not doom the operator. Simply untrue. ADS: a single loss = ISK negative for 1-2 battles. That alone is high risk, and with the many different ways that you can go down in flames ADS is most definitely not low risk. High reward, yeah because you can utterly dominate if the enemy team fails to provide resistance. This is pretty much a cases of one side not looking at it from the other's viewpoint. I do run Swarms (CBR7) and I don't kill many ADSs, but I do get a ton of WP from forcing them to back off. 1. Farm 2. Get Hit 3. Fly Away Please, help me think of roles with less risk exposure than this. So far I've come up with: * MCC AFK * Redline Sentinel w/Thales Are there many others? If not, then the ADS is by definition Lower Risk than other roles. An item's price does not justify its imbalance. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 416	Posted - 2014.08.19 21:10:00 - [43] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: So you want swarms to be low risk high reward? do you want vehicles to stop moving when you hit? Don't put words my mouth. My goal is to see Risk and Reward brought into balance. What is your goal? LOL. We all know tankahiro's goal. It's called Uprising 1.7. While it was nice when we got some revenge for the 6+months of OP AV while infantry said 'its fine gg' it didnt last long enough, still owed about 3 months Simple what i want 1. Racial parity 2. Adv/proto hulls 3. Bring back the variety of mods/turrets and hulls we had 4. Skills with passive bonuses and more of them Why would you want to tier things and make things even worse? Tiercide bitches!!!!!!
Matticus Monk OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2430	Posted - 2014.08.19 21:15:00 - [44] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: While it was nice when we got some revenge for the 6+months of OP AV while infantry said 'its fine gg' it didnt last long enough, still owed about 3 months No one owes you anything scrub. Double posting like a Kaiser. Embracing the death, at Llast.
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 3127	Posted - 2014.08.19 21:18:00 - [45] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: While it was nice when we got some revenge for the 6+months of OP AV while infantry said 'its fine gg' it didnt last long enough, still owed about 3 months No one owes you anything. That's the good ol' entitlement for you. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Gelan Corbaine Gladiators Vanguard 477	Posted - 2014.08.19 22:56:00 - [46] - Quote Speed of the missiles definitely need an increase so that Python doesn't out race them by simply circle strafing . Seriously guy didn't even bother to straighten up and burn off . Just made this long circle sideways around the base with his nose pointed towards the ground and they bloody still couldn't keep up with him !!! No job is worth doing if you don't get paid in the end .
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1052	Posted - 2014.08.20 01:48:00 - [47] - Quote Swarms are fine for me right now, damage wise. I agree they FEEL less powerful now. My suggestion is to leave them alone for now but keep an eye on if a change in speed or turning radius is in order. Because, that's why.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3876	Posted - 2014.08.20 10:23:00 - [48] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: So you want swarms to be low risk high reward? do you want vehicles to stop moving when you hit? Don't put words my mouth. My goal is to see Risk and Reward brought into balance. What is your goal? LOL. We all know tankahiro's goal. It's called Uprising 1.7. While it was nice when we got some revenge for the 6+months of OP AV while infantry said 'its fine gg' it didnt last long enough, still owed about 3 months Simple what i want 1. Racial parity 2. Adv/proto hulls 3. Bring back the variety of mods/turrets and hulls we had 4. Skills with passive bonuses and more of them Why would you want to tier things and make things even worse? Tiercide bitches!!!!!! Says tiercide while infantry has proto suits and we have basic hulls
Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 679	Posted - 2014.08.20 14:02:00 - [49] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: You lost a grand total of 72 damage at the proto level. Cry me a river. to a weapon that even at proto level with prof lv5 and damage mods struggles to take down an LAV. imagine the forum posts if for say a HMG couldn't kill a scout? be a completely different story Rolling with the punches
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4307	Posted - 2014.08.20 16:46:00 - [50] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Says tiercide while infantry has proto suits and we have basic hulls It is not appropriate to compare units which are vulnerable to everything to units which is vulnerable to very few things. Even with today's two-vehicle quota and improved installations, ADS+ADS or ADS+HAV or HAV+HAV more often than not result in entirely lopsided Ambush matches. How much more imbalanced would these matches be with prototype vehicles? How would you account / adjust for creating new imbalance? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3884	Posted - 2014.08.20 17:39:00 - [51] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Says tiercide while infantry has proto suits and we have basic hulls It is not appropriate to compare infantry (which can be killed by anything) to vehicles (which can be killed by very few things). Even with today's two-vehicle quota and improved installations, ADS+ADS or ADS+HAV or HAV+HAV more often than not result in entirely lopsided Ambush stompathons. How much more imbalanced would these matches be if prototype vehicles were introduced? Assuming better hulls were introduced, how would you account/adjust for worsening balance in an already imbalanced setting? But it is You have a basic suit but can upgrade, vehicle pilots cannot so we are stuck with what we have which now has less slots,mods,turrets,skills,hulls but thats fair infantry say Thats BS and if proto AV was leveled to be against fully proto vehicles then it balances itself out
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4316	Posted - 2014.08.20 19:22:00 - [52] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Says tiercide while infantry has proto suits and we have basic hulls It is not appropriate to compare infantry (which can be killed by anything) to vehicles (which can be killed by very few things). Even with today's two-vehicle quota and improved installations, ADS+ADS or ADS+HAV or HAV+HAV more often than not result in entirely lopsided Ambush stompathons. How much more imbalanced would these matches be if prototype vehicles were introduced? Assuming better hulls were introduced, how would you account/adjust for worsening balance in an already imbalanced setting? But it is You have a basic suit but can upgrade, vehicle pilots cannot so we are stuck with what we have which now has less slots,mods,turrets,skills,hulls but thats fair infantry say Thats BS and if proto AV was leveled to be against fully proto vehicles then it balances itself out What's BS is your willingness to break the game to get what you want. If we throw balance out the window, there won't be a game left for Pilots stomp. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 68	Posted - 2014.08.20 19:46:00 - [53] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Says tiercide while infantry has proto suits and we have basic hulls It is not appropriate to compare infantry (which can be killed by anything) to vehicles (which can be killed by very few things). Even with today's two-vehicle quota and improved installations, ADS+ADS or ADS+HAV or HAV+HAV more often than not result in entirely lopsided Ambush stompathons. How much more imbalanced would these matches be if prototype vehicles were introduced? Assuming better hulls were introduced, how would you account/adjust for worsening balance in an already imbalanced setting? But it is You have a basic suit but can upgrade, vehicle pilots cannot so we are stuck with what we have which now has less slots,mods,turrets,skills,hulls but thats fair infantry say Thats BS and if proto AV was leveled to be against fully proto vehicles then it balances itself out What's BS here is your unmitigated willingness to break the game to get what you want. If we throw balance out the window, there won't be a game left for Pilots to ROFL stomp. I think you might have missed what he's suggesting. Not buffs for vehicles, but rather newer vehicles on the DUST progression scale to more easily balance things. It would result in the "PRO" HAVs being at about the same level as the current Standard HAVs are (or slightly better, but most importantly having a wider array of options) and then balancing the lower tier ones to where it takes the same amount of time and effort to destroy them with anti-vehicle equipment of their same tier (for instance a Standard swarm launcher should be just as effective against a standard hull as a prototype launcher would be against a prototype hull.) Now personally I'm fine with the current vehicle prpgression (of militia, tech 1 and tech 2) provides they add the rest of the tech 2 vehicles back in (of course they need changed from the state they where in when they where removed) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Her Nibs New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 128	Posted - 2014.08.20 20:02:00 - [54] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Only proto got nerfed last I checked, but it also got more ammo? And the std and advance straight up got buffed, to make them viable, hence the nerf at pro. I don't see how you can turn all that into a nerf of the entire weapon class. I am Proto and it's lost it's umph...so more kick. But I got an extra slot for an 4 complex mods but still miss the feeling of power behind it. Shoot me or run me over, it becomes personnal.
Her Nibs New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 128	Posted - 2014.08.20 20:04:00 - [55] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: You lost a grand total of 72 damage at the proto level. Cry me a river. It's not the 72 hp.....it's all about the experience of shooting it. It's lost that lovin feelin Shoot me or run me over, it becomes personnal.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 68	Posted - 2014.08.20 20:06:00 - [56] - Quote Her Nibs wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: You lost a grand total of 72 damage at the proto level. Cry me a river. It's not the 72 hp.....it's all about the experience of shooting it. It's lost that lovin feelin My swarm minmando buddy feels the same way...but hey, the missile swarm seems to track targets better, and looses fewer missiles to the ground Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Her Nibs New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 128	Posted - 2014.08.20 20:08:00 - [57] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Her Nibs wrote: I feel like I am a noob with my very first swarms, That's how you're supposed to feel with such an easymode weapon... Working as intended. Obviously Derp you have never used a swarm.....estimated release time after lock on, angleing the launcher to go over hills, and around corners. For me it's all about the hunt for moving red objects and the feeling when you release. My swarms are badass but they have taken away the feeling of power behind the release Shoot me or run me over, it becomes personnal.
Her Nibs New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 129	Posted - 2014.08.20 20:10:00 - [58] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Her Nibs wrote: I feel like I am a noob with my very first swarms, That's how you're supposed to feel with such an easymode weapon... Working as intended. Nothing easy about not dying while trying to catch a target traveling at many times your top speed. Nothing easy about getting three volleys onto a target before it zips off well out-of-range. Nothing easy about syncing strikes with allied AV (absolutely required if intent is to destroy). Nothing easy about staying alive before, during and after firing swarms. Easymode Weaponry, you say? * Farm Infantry * Take Damage * Hit Afterburners ^ Please explain. How is this difficult? What Nibs is saying is that Swarms now "feel weak" (i.e. perception / sight / sound) when a volley is released; the fact that Swarms are in fact weak doesn't help the new feel. THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING TL;DR -- Swarms are bad. Now Swarms feel bad. - Proficiency 5 Swarms Shoot me or run me over, it becomes personnal.
Her Nibs New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 129	Posted - 2014.08.20 20:12:00 - [59] - Quote lee corwood wrote: Proficiency 2. Commando. 2 Damage Mods. Killed 3 vehicles just yesterday. Assisted many others forging. Not disappointed. Fail to see the issue. SWARMS - GOOD FEELING BEHIND SWARMS - BAD Shoot me or run me over, it becomes personnal.
Her Nibs New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 129	Posted - 2014.08.20 20:13:00 - [60] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: You lost a grand total of 72 damage at the proto level. Cry me a river. While I disagree with the OP, I have to point out that swarms were nerfed over and over again. Swarms could also kill anything in a single magazine with no proficiency. They were insanely op. The Nerf they got in 1.7 was justified. What was not justified was the vehicle buff that came with it. U R NOT LISTENING....... my swarms are terrific except for the lack of feeling when released Shoot me or run me over, it becomes personnal.

Her Nibs New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 129	Posted - 2014.08.20 20:14:00 - [61] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Imo it's fine, after all it's a fire and forget weapon. Kinda like u Shoot me or run me over, it becomes personnal.
Her Nibs New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 129	Posted - 2014.08.20 20:17:00 - [62] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Her Nibs wrote: As a dedicated AV Profinciency 5 I am discussed at the way CCP has handled the Nerf of the Swarm Launcher. It's no buff when you add it up. The least you could of done is keep the feeling of power when you release the swarms to at least give the player the same sensation of 6 swarms. It the feeling of power I miss....give it back. You nerfed my range, hit points and more...give it a rest. I feel like I am a noob with my very first swarms, ca use that it what it feels like...not even as good as the CBR before the fix. You let Nova Knives take out tanks but not a swarm. WTF. Saw this in a PC...5 guys with Nova Knives took out a Proto Tank....REALLY DEVs...get a sense of balance here. That's like a knife takes out a tank but a bazooka can't. And you wonder why this ame is broken....you keep breaking it..... NOW PLEASE FIX IT and give me back that swarm launcher power feeling. But you are a noob You are using a weapon that requires no skill You are using a weapon that require no aim The weapon is more skilled that you Also in the hotfix basic and adv swarms do more base damage, dmg mods are buffed and offset the nerf done to proto, no longer can pilots see if its proto/adv swarms since they all fire 4 missiles, its an overall buff and also your firing animation is quicker with just 4 missiles than 6 so you can fire quicker Do you have a tank or derp........I have 33m sp I am no noob. I stand in front of tanks, I hunt, I keep my team safe so they can kill clones like u. Shoot me or run me over, it becomes personnal.
Her Nibs New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 133	Posted - 2014.08.20 20:20:00 - [63] - Quote Gelan Corbaine wrote: Speed of the missiles definitely need an increase so that Python doesn't out race them by simply circle strafing . Seriously guy didn't even bother to straighten up and burn off . Just made this long circle sideways around the base with his nose pointed towards the ground and they bloody still couldn't keep up with him !!! I call them Chicken Derps...afraid to go up against 1 tiny female with a swarm launcher. OOPS, I'm sorry. Did I just blow up your Python
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 720	Posted - 2014.08.20 22:06:00 - [64] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: 1. Farm 2. Get Hit 3. Fly Away Please, help me think of roles with less risk exposure than this. So far I've come up with: * MCC AFK * Redline Sentinel w/Thales Are there many others? If not, then the ADS role is by definition Lower Risk than other roles. Risk is more than just risk exposure, its also about what is being exposed. An ADS is the single most expensive piece of gear in the game. If ISK is not a factor, it shouldn't matter how cheap it is; if ISK is a factor, then it should be difficult to destroy. For your list, add in STD Heavies w/ HMG and Shotgun Scouts. Heavies have an enormous pool of HP and an immensely powerful gun; shotgun Scouts have invisibility and an immensely powerful gun. As far as your list is concerned, that's an incredible simplification: farming is hardly restricted to ADSs, the primary difference is how people respond to their deaths. If one person pulls out a Swarm, the dropship must be wary and quite likely will have a good chance of simply being driven off (if the user has any idea of how to use terrain to their advantage) but equally a good chance of killing the AVer. Herein lies a big part of the equation: AV gets damage points. You are being rewarded for forcing a vehicle to disengage simply damaging it sufficiently (almost always the second volley will yield WP: if the ADS is farming, then a second volley is most likely going to connect.) Get hit/fly away: a lot more complicated than most non-Pilots believe. What obstacles (aka, a one hit kill, and if not, then almost certainly a death sentence after you slow/lose a metric shitton of HP...unless you're an Incubus) are nearby? Do you know where the AV hit you from and are you actually disengaging or are you extending the enemy's threat envelope by flying over them? I realise we are talking Swarms here, but a good Forge Gunner will slap a bad pilot out of the sky; that is, those pilots who simply hit AB and hold L1 to shoot straight up. Then, if I might go back to the first part: 'farming' in an ADS requires a significant investment of time, ISK, SP and personal skill. To learn to fly an ADS is more than just flying in a militia DS then adding shooting. ADSs manoeuvre differently, more reactively and firing without just hovering steady is a skill that takes time and effort to learn. Honestly, I mean this with the least amount of venom possible, but have you ever tried flying against competent AV players? A good solo AVer will gain a lot of WP from a dropship and a coordinated two/three will hound a Pilot either forcing them into extremely fleeting engagements (aka, not farming) or otherwise bring them down. Now, let me clarify my stance: I feel that AV/V balance is in a good place for the most part. I do feel that ADSs can escape Swarm volleys very easily in too many circumstances (and my above points are more about how you think the ADS is some easymode tool.) Personally, I would like to see regular Swarms increase in speed by about 50%. I would also like to see Assault Swarms become a long range suppression tool for use against DSs: longer lock range, a proportional damage reduction and a further speed increase, plus a travel range increase. Her Nibs wrote: I call them Chicken Derps...afraid to go up against 1 tiny female with a swarm launcher. I was talking to Pvt Numnutz (another pilot) the other night about why Pilots so quickly retreat. The reason it boils down to is visibility: at 80m, an infantryman is tiny, not much bigger than an inch maybe and this is usually the close engagement range of a dropship; for the Pilot themselves, acquiring an AVer before they launch/engage is unusual, even the Forge glow is only occasionally rendered; the dropship itself takes up a good 20-40% of the screen, reducing visibility, quite often a significant portion directly below the vehicle. What I am trying to say is that most Pilots are not running because they are dumb and scared to lose their ship at the first sign of trouble, it's because even when prepared for a fight they are often unable to see their enemy. A good pilot will disengage, recharge and reengage from a better angle and specifically looking for the target. Alt of Halla Murr.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4340	Posted - 2014.08.21 00:50:00 - [65] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Now, let me clarify my stance: I feel that AV/V balance is in a good place for the most part. I do feel that ADSs can escape Swarm volleys very easily in too many circumstances (and my above points are more about how you think the ADS is some easymode tool.) Personally, I would like to see regular Swarms increase in speed by about 50%. I would also like to see Assault Swarms become a long range suppression tool for use against DSs: longer lock range, a proportional damage reduction and a further speed increase, plus a travel range increase. All good points. I agree with your suggested improvements. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 681	Posted - 2014.08.21 11:51:00 - [66] - Quote and also as i've been saying since the swarm nerf/vehicle buff. if we have a slightly lower damage at least give us back the range. even a militia dropship can hit an AB and be out of harms way by time a proto swarm has locked again. or perhaps tweak the skill bonus so those of us at proto levels benefit. hell i'd even take proficiency skill as a lock range bonus over damage if i had too because at the moment vehicles are just too quick to run away from a swarm Rolling with the punches
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 324	Posted - 2014.08.21 12:30:00 - [67] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Now, let me clarify my stance: I feel that AV/V balance is in a good place for the most part. I do feel that ADSs can escape Swarm volleys very easily in too many circumstances (and my above points are more about how you think the ADS is some easymode tool.) Personally, I would like to see regular Swarms increase in speed by about 50%. I would also like to see Assault Swarms become a long range suppression tool for use against DSs: longer lock range, a proportional damage reduction and a further speed increase, plus a travel range increase. All good points. I agree with your suggested improvements. I'd rather see a nerf to the afterburner than a buff to the bugged swarms... Once again balancing around 1 specific build, the build that people use simply because of swarms.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4370	Posted - 2014.08.21 12:35:00 - [68] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Once again balancing around 1 specific build, the build that people use simply because of swarms. More like, fixing Swarms because they aren't working well. And before you claim they do work well, have another look at the Expert Challenge Results. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley


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