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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4598	Posted - 2014.08.01 10:30:00 - [1] - Quote How you feel about making matches end faster when one team is holding all the points? Fixes redline drama, fixes bad players doing stupid things because there is no sense of motivation, kills a lot of the frustration of being in a losing fight forever... Is this the kinda thing you can even do in a hotfix?
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 15541	Posted - 2014.08.01 10:42:00 - [2] - Quote It's incredibly dull when you full cap in a skirmish and the other team just gives up, but it goes on for another 10 minutes... +1 You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5064	Posted - 2014.08.01 10:55:00 - [3] - Quote It's already on our list, my simple idea was a synergy bonus to the Null-Cannons, If all are held, there is a 50% rate of fire bonus, or something along those lines. It also encourages a team to reach for all three instead of holding on a 2-1 lead in a 3 point Skirmish. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 354	Posted - 2014.08.01 11:25:00 - [4] - Quote While I agree with the OP that one sided matches that continues forever is boring for both sides, wouldn't it be better to introduce mechanics that help a "under-dog team" to pull themselfs back up? Most outcomes can be determined within the first 5 minutes, and shortening the remaining time might reduce boredom for the winning team, it will make it even harder for the "loosers" to come back in the game (which will reduce their entertainment even further). I fear this will increase red-line sniping and the other tactics rather than reducing it. - What if OBs became cheaper for the loosing team? - What if dropped installations automatically belongs to the loosing team rather than being neutral? There are probably plenty of other things we can do to keep the matches interesting for the full 15 minutes rather than "shorting" them...
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2672	Posted - 2014.08.01 11:26:00 - [5] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It's already on our list, my simple idea was a synergy bonus to the Null-Cannons, If all are held, there is a 50% rate of fire bonus, or something along those lines. It also encourages a team to reach for all three instead of holding on a 2-1 lead in a 3 point Skirmish. Will this apply to PC as well? Tanker/Logi/Assault

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5065	Posted - 2014.08.01 11:31:00 - [6] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: While I agree with the OP that one sided matches that continues forever is boring for both sides, wouldn't it be better to introduce mechanics that help a "under-dog team" to pull themselfs back up? Most outcomes can be determined within the first 5 minutes, and shortening the remaining time might reduce boredom for the winning team, it will make it even harder for the "loosers" to come back in the game (which will reduce their entertainment even further). I fear this will increase red-line sniping and the other tactics rather than reducing it. - What if OBs became cheaper for the loosing team? - What if dropped installations automatically belongs to the loosing team rather than being neutral? There are probably plenty of other things we can do to keep the matches interesting for the full 15 minutes rather than "shorting" them... That's the thing, you can make up for lost time by actually going on the counter attack, claim all three and catch up quicker with this solution as well. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

anaboop Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 130	Posted - 2014.08.01 11:53:00 - [7] - Quote While it sounds nice, the losing team doesnt usually get a hold of all nulls late in the game, maybe use the armor 50% and armor critical as an indication of having null increased damage or hits for the losing side? Just an idea Fully sick Anaboop trading card
Haerr Legio DXIV 1146	Posted - 2014.08.01 12:25:00 - [8] - Quote Can you speed up skirmish matches by making the homepoint start out captured? It would help out a lot in PUB matches especially if you want to call in a derp and you get stuck waiting for fifty-eleven LAVs to be called in... 10 / 10 would read again.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1312	Posted - 2014.08.01 12:29:00 - [9] - Quote While the one-sided match is indeed dull. DUST already has a slippery slope style of gaming. This idea would only increase the slope exponentially, as it often takes time to rally, and time is already fairly short to do this in. I'd rather have a solid comeback system over increasing the slope of the system. Darth Jackal
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 220	Posted - 2014.08.01 12:37:00 - [10] - Quote Although I do like the all guns held bonus idea, I think that underdog bonuses should also come in, How about a damage boost to a null cannon that breaks an all captured boost? Or a timer that it can't. Be hacked back for? So if a team that's red lined gets a point back and the reds don't counter hack they recapture for a set time, giving the blues time to attack another point without defending the 1st point, it will allow for Momentum of attack on a break through. Thoughts?

headbust SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 110	Posted - 2014.08.01 12:40:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: While I agree with the OP that one sided matches that continues forever is boring for both sides, wouldn't it be better to introduce mechanics that help a "under-dog team" to pull themselfs back up? Most outcomes can be determined within the first 5 minutes, and shortening the remaining time might reduce boredom for the winning team, it will make it even harder for the "loosers" to come back in the game (which will reduce their entertainment even further). I fear this will increase red-line sniping and the other tactics rather than reducing it. - What if OBs became cheaper for the loosing team? - What if dropped installations automatically belongs to the loosing team rather than being neutral? There are probably plenty of other things we can do to keep the matches interesting for the full 15 minutes rather than "shorting" them... That's the thing, you can make up for lost time by actually going on the counter attack, claim all three and catch up quicker with this solution as well. do u play much lol usually when a team is down and out u might have 4 or 5 guys keep pushing but the rest give up and sit in the back a scout = once you turn your back on me you'll never be able to look back
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 14	Posted - 2014.08.01 12:52:00 - [12] - Quote Imagine a team proto stomping in a qsync, against a team that isn't. I'm almost always qsnc'd and I can say any player barely hanging on will rage quit, they already do. Charlie gives me hope, this makes me think I shouldn't have ever given you money.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 15	Posted - 2014.08.01 13:00:00 - [13] - Quote If you wantbyo shorten matches just make null cannons more powerfull but this 50% if ypu hold all of them will just play to the vets advantage.
Freccia di Lybra Maphia Clan Corporation 186	Posted - 2014.08.01 13:07:00 - [14] - Quote it would simply make the match dies quicker. Even quicker than you imagine: losing team won't even try to attack as soon as they're redlined, so that that match ends Ei fu, xxwhitedevilxx former Co-CEO Maphia Clan Corporation / Unit Unicorn
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 267	Posted - 2014.08.01 13:17:00 - [15] - Quote I like this idea. .. would be nice if the same could be done for domination, like an increase in fire rate for every 5 minutes held, would make the race for first hack more desperate and reduce the amount of time a severely underpowered team gets redline camped.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4601	Posted - 2014.08.01 13:27:00 - [16] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: While I agree with the OP that one sided matches that continues forever is boring for both sides, wouldn't it be better to introduce mechanics that help a "under-dog team" to pull themselfs back up? Most outcomes can be determined within the first 5 minutes, and shortening the remaining time might reduce boredom for the winning team, it will make it even harder for the "loosers" to come back in the game (which will reduce their entertainment even further). I fear this will increase red-line sniping and the other tactics rather than reducing it. - What if OBs became cheaper for the loosing team? - What if dropped installations automatically belongs to the loosing team rather than being neutral? There are probably plenty of other things we can do to keep the matches interesting for the full 15 minutes rather than "shorting" them... Rewarding failure is a terrible gaming trend and it is has left a VERY negative impact on fighting games. I don't see it doing well for FPS games either. It would just drag the game out even longer and promote dumb activities like "seven snipers on a tower" and suchfourth. Anyhow I'm glad to see Rattati agrees with me on this one. I don't have a solution for Domination exactly, although I imagine there could possibly be a rate of fire bonus if the single terminal is held for longer than 5 minutes without a hack attempt or something along those lines.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2567	Posted - 2014.08.01 13:33:00 - [17] - Quote Don't know if it needs a client update or not, but in domination matches in most of the maps, null cannons are placed under railing / tower / pitthole, i know it's an attack/ defend game mode, but this placement is frustrating because it allows camping and the only good strategy become camp even more, spam even more, zerg even more and i believe it's not funny at all. Another little thing that i believe you can hotfix are MCC missiles, there are already null cannons, why add them? Especially in domination, i believe that if one team manage to hack the null cannon at the last moment and keep it till the end it deserves the victory. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items"
Grimmiers 644	Posted - 2014.08.01 13:41:00 - [18] - Quote I think another problem is players not even attempting to play to their potential by wearing militia suits as soon as things look rough. There should be a small insurance that covers a fraction of maybe up to 10 or so of the suits you've lost. So basically you're payout would increase if you lost more expensive fittings during your efforts to win. This money shouldn't be thrown in with the payout pool, but given directly to the player. There could also be a set amount of warpoints you have to earn per suit based on the meta level before you are covered by the insurance. There needs to be an incentive to win using better gear so the insurance plus a better team payout for winning would help both teams "proto stomp" each other more often. Edit: This would be cool if your corp and even npc corps could cover your losses automatically.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4601	Posted - 2014.08.01 13:42:00 - [19] - Quote If you guys think that this is a slippery slope you need to play Classic Battlefield. If all points are captured the team loses all of their tickets within about 30 seconds and the game ends. THAT was a slippery slope and nobody complained about it. This is not a hardcore slippery slope, punishing the noobie type change. It would offer them mercy of death. Any team that gets fully capped is probably going to lose the game anyway. I really believe it needs to happen, and the successful team shouldn't be punished by some comeback system that required no effort to take advantage of. What kind of message is that sending to the less skilled, lazy players anyway? That it's OK to lose objectives? There needs to be a point where defeat simply happens, and the torture stops. And there HAS to be some sense of urgency to rip bad players away from their team-screwing habits.
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 267	Posted - 2014.08.01 13:48:00 - [20] - Quote The mercy of the game ending swiftly is mercy enough.

iliel 0uter.Heaven 67	Posted - 2014.08.01 13:51:00 - [21] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: While I agree with the OP that one sided matches that continues forever is boring for both sides, wouldn't it be better to introduce mechanics that help a "under-dog team" to pull themselfs back up? Most outcomes can be determined within the first 5 minutes, and shortening the remaining time might reduce boredom for the winning team, it will make it even harder for the "loosers" to come back in the game (which will reduce their entertainment even further). I fear this will increase red-line sniping and the other tactics rather than reducing it. - What if OBs became cheaper for the loosing team? - What if dropped installations automatically belongs to the loosing team rather than being neutral? There are probably plenty of other things we can do to keep the matches interesting for the full 15 minutes rather than "shorting" them... Solution: reduce isk payouts to zero for a team which loses to a redline.
Grimmiers 644	Posted - 2014.08.01 13:52:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It's already on our list, my simple idea was a synergy bonus to the Null-Cannons, If all are held, there is a 50% rate of fire bonus, or something along those lines. It also encourages a team to reach for all three instead of holding on a 2-1 lead in a 3 point Skirmish. This sounds good, but there's a problem with a lot of domination null cannon placements. Mostly the ones placed within the hill on manus peak. I feel like the map designer who place the null cannon didn't want the null cannon to get stuck in the changing socket structures so he placed in haphazardly on that spot because it was easier. The null cannon would be better off on H7 and what would be even better is for it to be on the blue team ground spawn, perhaps on the platform near that tower. (The ground spawn would be moved to E5) Checkmate! http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/newssystem/media/64656/1/ManusPeak_domination.jpg
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1236	Posted - 2014.08.01 14:03:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: While I agree with the OP that one sided matches that continues forever is boring for both sides, wouldn't it be better to introduce mechanics that help a "under-dog team" to pull themselfs back up? Most outcomes can be determined within the first 5 minutes, and shortening the remaining time might reduce boredom for the winning team, it will make it even harder for the "loosers" to come back in the game (which will reduce their entertainment even further). I fear this will increase red-line sniping and the other tactics rather than reducing it. - What if OBs became cheaper for the loosing team? - What if dropped installations automatically belongs to the loosing team rather than being neutral? There are probably plenty of other things we can do to keep the matches interesting for the full 15 minutes rather than "shorting" them... That's the thing, you can make up for lost time by actually going on the counter attack, claim all three and catch up quicker with this solution as well. It sounds like what you are describing would just make the skirmish matches quicker but perhaps not more enjoyable. I think if you accelerated the Null Cannon RoF or damage as you take more OBJs this might very well lead you to a short spike in activity as the losing team (or at least the 5 or 6 good players on the losing team) tried to counter-attack, HOWEVER, i think you would get the point where you know you can win faster and you start playing very conservative, not want to lose suits, and not push the fight. This is a tough problem and I'm not necessarily opposed to capping bad matches but you have to be careful in mitigating longer boring fights you create even more short boring fights. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2174	Posted - 2014.08.01 14:26:00 - [24] - Quote headbust wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: While I agree with the OP that one sided matches that continues forever is boring for both sides, wouldn't it be better to introduce mechanics that help a "under-dog team" to pull themselfs back up? Most outcomes can be determined within the first 5 minutes, and shortening the remaining time might reduce boredom for the winning team, it will make it even harder for the "loosers" to come back in the game (which will reduce their entertainment even further). I fear this will increase red-line sniping and the other tactics rather than reducing it. - What if OBs became cheaper for the loosing team? - What if dropped installations automatically belongs to the loosing team rather than being neutral? There are probably plenty of other things we can do to keep the matches interesting for the full 15 minutes rather than "shorting" them... That's the thing, you can make up for lost time by actually going on the counter attack, claim all three and catch up quicker with this solution as well. do u play much lol usually when a team is down and out u might have 4 or 5 guys keep pushing but the rest give up and sit in the back This is one symptom of the disease that is Passive in-match sp. The message that sp mechanic gives to players is twofold: Firstly it's a 'You don't really have to try to win' message and secondly it's a 'We hold your hand in this way because we know many of you players can't handle DUST in it's rawest, most primal state' message. Players intuit this even if they don't or can't verbalize it. Personally i don't want the in-match mechanics changed or buffs/nerfs applied to underdogs/winners, but do want to see a WP boost for all actions given to underdogs. Maybe base the boost on how many objectives the losing team manages to take back from the enemy, maybe bonus an underdog win. There would be many ways to write this mechanic, but the heart of it is you get paid in wp for fighting back from a probable/certain loss. PSN: RationalSpark
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1783	Posted - 2014.08.01 14:58:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It's already on our list, my simple idea was a synergy bonus to the Null-Cannons, If all are held, there is a 50% rate of fire bonus, or something along those lines. It also encourages a team to reach for all three instead of holding on a 2-1 lead in a 3 point Skirmish. Can you please reduce ISK rewards for both winners and losers a bit for when this happens? To keep people from giving up too easily or just farming quick matches.
headbust SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 112	Posted - 2014.08.01 15:49:00 - [26] - Quote just gonna throw this out there but if we had a REAL matchmaking system we wouldn't need this cause matches would be fun and not 1 sided. i only get to play 2-3 competitive matches a day it seems. i had a real fun one against 1UP yesterday my team won by mcc but we had like 20 clones to their 40 but my squad didn't run any proto cant say the same for them though. a scout = once you turn your back on me you'll never be able to look back
Foundation Seldon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 684	Posted - 2014.08.01 16:38:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It's already on our list, my simple idea was a synergy bonus to the Null-Cannons, If all are held, there is a 50% rate of fire bonus, or something along those lines. It also encourages a team to reach for all three instead of holding on a 2-1 lead in a 3 point Skirmish. Stop it Rattati, there's only so many sensible design suggestions you can push in such a short amount of time. We're in danger of the game actually becoming good if you keep going down this path.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 15548	Posted - 2014.08.01 17:06:00 - [28] - Quote anaboop wrote: While it sounds nice, the losing team doesnt usually get a hold of all nulls late in the game, maybe use the armor 50% and armor critical as an indication of having null increased damage or hits for the losing side? Just an idea If u cant make it happen from the nulls maybe make the mcc shoot more often or do more damage instead based on nulls captured If the losing team has lost all objectives at some point and then cannot reverse it so that they hold all objectives, they are worse than the winning team. Thus, they deserve to lose. Rewarding failure would be a stupid move. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Rizlax Yazzax Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 385	Posted - 2014.08.01 19:07:00 - [29] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Another little thing that i believe you can hotfix are MCC missiles, there are already null cannons, why add them? Especially in domination, i believe that if one team manage to hack the null cannon at the last moment and keep it till the end it deserves the victory. The MCC missiles are there as a safeguard. Would be way too easy to cap in a single match. Go PC/Qsync a match and hack everything but the objectives back and forth, until you have enough WP to cap. With no time limits you could just AFK overnight or until your PS3 melts. Plus it's hilarious watching a DS get taken out by one. Not so much if it's mine.
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 184	Posted - 2014.08.01 19:31:00 - [30] - Quote The posts by Headbust, Grimmier, and especially Hiniko, very much express my feelings too on this subject. Giving the losing team a friendly handicap/boost in the interests of adding artificial drama and artificial hope... when (umm, let's be honest) they are the losing team NOT because the other team was OP or proto-ringers all the time, but because the losing team had players in it who STILL haven't gotten the gist of co-op contribution that the Devs have always tried to promote first and foremost in their game... is kind of COUNTER to the game. Dust's hurtful lack of sympathy for players in the grind and the fitting-attempts has always been a shock for me, but at least it speaking HONESTLY to me: "Celesta, you will mostly succeed if you try to learn ever damn technique you can to work with blue-mercs in this match, and do your best to HELP THEM OUT, regardless whether they are buddies or strangers! ...If you haven't figured out yet that you're hurting team mates who you don't even know when you vacilate around the map using lost and random actions, or you just want to be stubborn and wing it on your own like you do in other shooters, then Celesta you deserve to see that work "Defeat" at the end of you matches (and deserve some of the criticism you find on this forum)". I mentioned this before, that I KNOW it's hard to learn how to practice REAL co-op activity in these games (because we console players honestly aren't given many games that REALLY require team-effort to survive them). But failing to learn the hard skills should not be rewarded with comeback mechanics. "Teams" burdened with too many lone-wolf players need to lose, and lose again, until... well, you know my same ole speech about Co-op. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.



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