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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Jathniel G I A N T 1125	Posted - 2014.08.01 19:33:00 - [31] - Quote lol.... wow. Problem: Bad mechanics makes for lopsided matches that are broken and boring. Solution: Make matches shorter. (?) Problem: Dying economy. Weak currency. Solution: Reduce employee hours. (?) (Derp.) Hilarity. Fighting another team of skilled players is FUN, losing or not. The bad mechanics when doing that is what makes the losing side give up. The losing side is NOT losing motivation because of the winning side's skill. The losing side loses motivation when it's incapable of making a dent regardless of effort exerted. That's due to bad mechanics, not because the winning side is 1337. Example 1: Determined noob on losing team comes up with smart flanking maneuver. Bypasses winning team's defensive line, and approaches an objective. Determined noob gets drop on oblivious "vet" guarding objective. Noob lines up headshot and unloads into vet's skull. Vet jumps away, spins around and kills noob. Example 2: Determined noob on losing team comes up with smart flanking maneuver. Bypasses winning team's defensive line. Deploys uplink in good area, awaits backup to spawn, and THEN approaches an objective. GROUP of determined noobs get drop on oblivious "vet" guarding objective. Noobs rip vet to shreds with the combined power of their noob guns, and hack objective. Winning team of invincible vets returns to hacked objective and slaughter all noobs instantly, as noobs are incapable of throwing up a meaningful resistance to "vets". Noob comms are in an uproar with them complaining about how useless their guns are, how they don't know where they're getting shot from, and how "heavies are OP". Then one by one, each noob says "fk it", and decides to redline snipe. Winning team is now bored, and angry that they are getting pegged by redline snipers for the next 10 minutes; then run to forums and complain that the redline AND/OR snipers AND/OR "length of match" is the problem. Losing sides would put up a fight if the game wasn't broken, to begin with. Making the match shorter because the winners get bored doesn't change that. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
aaaasdff ertgfdd 170	Posted - 2014.08.01 20:04:00 - [32] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: How you feel about making matches end faster when one team is holding all the points? Fixes redline drama, fixes bad players doing stupid things because there is no sense of motivation, kills a lot of the frustration of being in a losing fight forever... Is this the kinda thing you can even do in a hotfix? This would be a MERCY rule. Im all for it. INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
Jathniel G I A N T 1125	Posted - 2014.08.01 20:20:00 - [33] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: How you feel about making matches end faster when one team is holding all the points? Fixes redline drama, fixes bad players doing stupid things because there is no sense of motivation, kills a lot of the frustration of being in a losing fight forever... Is this the kinda thing you can even do in a hotfix? .......... You know your game is in a bad spot when you got people making requests like this.... Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
iKILLu osborne Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo 130	Posted - 2014.08.01 22:00:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It's already on our list, my simple idea was a synergy bonus to the Null-Cannons, If all are held, there is a 50% rate of fire bonus, or something along those lines. It also encourages a team to reach for all three instead of holding on a 2-1 lead in a 3 point Skirmish. if i could like that post 15 more times i would "uh guys" "i got to go back to the mcc those 10 ads's made me crap my dropsuit"
gauntlet44 LbowDeep Heaven84 Devils General Tso's Alliance 103	Posted - 2014.08.01 23:40:00 - [35] - Quote headbust wrote: just gonna throw this out there but if we had a REAL matchmaking system we wouldn't need this cause matches would be fun and not 1 sided. i only get to play 2-3 competitive matches a day it seems. i had a real fun one against 1UP yesterday my team won by mcc but we had like 20 clones to their 40 but my squad didn't run any proto cant say the same for them though. i would rather have better matchmaking than shorter games Absorb what is useful, discard what is not, make it uniquely your own........ Bruce Lee
aaaasdff ertgfdd 170	Posted - 2014.08.02 02:36:00 - [36] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: How you feel about making matches end faster when one team is holding all the points? Fixes redline drama, fixes bad players doing stupid things because there is no sense of motivation, kills a lot of the frustration of being in a losing fight forever... Is this the kinda thing you can even do in a hotfix? .......... You know your game is in a bad spot when you got people making requests like this.... Dude every video game I have ever played has one sided matches. No game has matchmaking perfected. INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 273	Posted - 2014.08.02 05:19:00 - [37] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It's already on our list, my simple idea was a synergy bonus to the Null-Cannons, If all are held, there is a 50% rate of fire bonus, or something along those lines. It also encourages a team to reach for all three instead of holding on a 2-1 lead in a 3 point Skirmish. I'm starting to dislike most of what you say and do lately. This would turn a lot of close matches into losses. ESPECIALLY IN PLANETARY CONQUEST. Dust servers will be a ghost town on 09/09/14 Destiny kicks ass... Like Halo knocked up Mass Effect and gave birth
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 365	Posted - 2014.08.02 07:48:00 - [38] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: This would turn a lot of close matches into losses. This is my fear as well. In my experience, player motivation (and their actions) increases the more "close-call" the game is. They use higher tier gear and are generally more aggressive, generating really fun matches (win or lose). If there is a sense that the game is lost, motivation will decrease.... Players will switch to cheap gear to minimise their losses, switch to red-line sniping etc. I mean, how fun is it to join a game where the MCC is already at 30% health? How high is your motivation then? We need to give the underdog team a reason to stay in the fight. By making the loosing team "suffer" less, or penalising them with no ISK reward for a loss will achieve the complete opposite effect. Morale will be shattered, and people will leave game. I really like Vrain Matari's idea of increased WP for the underdog team. - What if hacking a Null canon gives an increased WP based on how many Null canons the enemy team have?
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4630	Posted - 2014.08.02 08:57:00 - [39] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It's already on our list, my simple idea was a synergy bonus to the Null-Cannons, If all are held, there is a 50% rate of fire bonus, or something along those lines. It also encourages a team to reach for all three instead of holding on a 2-1 lead in a 3 point Skirmish. I'm starting to dislike most of what you say and do lately. This would turn a lot of close matches into losses. ESPECIALLY IN PLANETARY CONQUEST. If you get fully capped it was probably not a close match. This change forces some players into a more defensive mindset so that never happens. The matches that are close will stay close.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 234	Posted - 2014.08.02 12:45:00 - [40] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: [quote=OP FOTM] We need to give the underdog team a reason to stay in the fight. By making the loosing team "suffer" less, or penalising them with no ISK reward for a loss will achieve the complete opposite effect. Morale will be shattered, and people will leave game. I really like Vrain Matari's idea of increased WP for the underdog team. - What if hacking a Null canon gives an increased WP based on how many Null canons the enemy team have? I really like this idea too, as you say we need to give the losing side a reason to keep fighting back or there will be no close battles. blueberries will leave the battles as soon as they are pushed back. and if you take away the isk/sp rewards or seriously reduce them they will start to leave battles that are even difficult. if you encourage people to fight back though you will start to see more close battles. my earlier idea of a timer on a rehack will allow the handful of people still fighting to be able to make enough of a difference to encourage others back to the fight.

Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 16	Posted - 2014.08.02 12:50:00 - [41] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: OP FOTM wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It's already on our list, my simple idea was a synergy bonus to the Null-Cannons, If all are held, there is a 50% rate of fire bonus, or something along those lines. It also encourages a team to reach for all three instead of holding on a 2-1 lead in a 3 point Skirmish. I'm starting to dislike most of what you say and do lately. This would turn a lot of close matches into losses. ESPECIALLY IN PLANETARY CONQUEST. If you get fully capped it was probably not a close match. This change forces some players into a more defensive mindset so that never happens. The matches that are close will stay close. How do you figure that an even match now would stay one with this implemented? I can recall some of the best matches going against era, cap ac, and well most corps in our alliance where we lost every point and turned it around when we regrouped. Long gruelling matches that were fun as **** that would be a waste of isk just because a team deployed betterand smoother because I don't like my sqd to pub stomp and we don't always check the bored. The way it is now is 100% fair so I say again, imcrease null cannon damage to shorten games.
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 269	Posted - 2014.08.02 13:21:00 - [42] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: OP FOTM wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It's already on our list, my simple idea was a synergy bonus to the Null-Cannons, If all are held, there is a 50% rate of fire bonus, or something along those lines. It also encourages a team to reach for all three instead of holding on a 2-1 lead in a 3 point Skirmish. I'm starting to dislike most of what you say and do lately. This would turn a lot of close matches into losses. ESPECIALLY IN PLANETARY CONQUEST. If you get fully capped it was probably not a close match. This change forces some players into a more defensive mindset so that never happens. The matches that are close will stay close. How do you figure that an even match now would stay one with this implemented? I can recall some of the best matches going against era, cap ac, and well most corps in our alliance where we lost every point and turned it around when we regrouped. Long gruelling matches that were fun as **** that would be a waste of isk just because a team deployed betterand smoother because I don't like my sqd to pub stomp and we don't always check the bored. The way it is now is 100% fair so I say again, imcrease null cannon damage to shorten games. If you are capable of flipping the points you will still be able to, you will have to hold the point for the same period of time as the other team to be even on shields and armor, just like now.... the key difference is if you DONT flip any points the game will end sooner.. Ie: Team A caps all points immediately and holds all for 5 min, with bonus it's as though 7.5 minutes pass. Team B regroups and flips all points at the same time, holds for 5, now they are even on shields and armor. if you are getting 5 capped at the start of a match and can't hack one point for over 5 minutes then your team was going to drown regardless of null canon speed.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 16	Posted - 2014.08.02 13:31:00 - [43] - Quote Let the pub stomping begin, time to pad that w/l.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4630	Posted - 2014.08.02 14:45:00 - [44] - Quote I think this thread is a good example of how even if you do the right thing, people will always react negatively due to inexperience and fear. Well whatever. At least Rattati knows whats up.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 16	Posted - 2014.08.02 15:43:00 - [45] - Quote I've got 35m sp and constant 3 or 5-1 kd weekly I play in pc almost daily I'm far from inexperienced and would probably dominate with this Iimplemented. All I'm saying is that this is in no way friendly to those with less experience and sp. It caters only to strong corps with active numbers.
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 17	Posted - 2014.08.02 15:58:00 - [46] - Quote An opposing view is in no way negative, someone has to speak up for the poor blueberries that are on the verge of extinctio. Make a new account and join an upcoming corp and tell me if you think this would help. Maybe you've been stomping in fa a little too long. The ways of the noob are long forgotten in this alliance we just stomp them into never playing again.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 367	Posted - 2014.08.02 16:34:00 - [47] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: I think this thread is a good example of how even if you do the right thing, people will always react negatively due to inexperience and fear. Well whatever. At least Rattati knows whats up. I think it's more a case of being cautious of an idea which looks good on paper, but will probably backfire quite badly if implemented solo (without any further mechanics to encourage people to get into the fight). It will rather give a reason to give up even earlier.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6855	Posted - 2014.08.02 16:40:00 - [48] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: I think this thread is a good example of how even if you do the right thing, people will always react negatively due to inexperience and fear. Well whatever. At least Rattati knows whats up. Plebs rarely ever know what they are talking about or know what's good for them. This is why a pure Democracy cannot work. see you space cowboy...
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 17	Posted - 2014.08.02 16:54:00 - [49] - Quote Pubs were never meant for vets anyways give us a reason to play factional and let blieberries play pub. Solves issue.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 367	Posted - 2014.08.02 17:04:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: That's the thing, you can make up for lost time by actually going on the counter attack, claim all three and catch up quicker with this solution as well. That's true, but the number of times I have seen both teams hold all the points in one game is extremely rare. Best case one team hold all the points for a time, then the opposition manage to capture back the majority (but not all). Those games were a lot of fun and very close... But if the proposed mechanics would have been implemented in those games, the additional advantage given to the first team would make it next to impossible to come back, and I am afraid people would have given up earlier. It would also be harder to win by clone-out, since you will have less time to kill off all enemy clones if the enemy team hold all points. Look, I am not against the idea per se, there just need to be greater incentive (and opportunity) to stay in the fight. Then we will see more close fights.

Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 17	Posted - 2014.08.02 17:05:00 - [51] - Quote Pubs were never meant for vets anyways give us a reason to play factional and let blieberries play pub. Solves issue.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7968	Posted - 2014.08.02 17:07:00 - [52] - Quote The only problem I could see this becoming is an issue with not being able to come back from a redline. Especially in PC. Yesterday we played a match where we were five capped because we got into the match late. But we managed to turn the whole game around and five cap them, and win. How would there be any epic comebacks like this if the matches end quicker? ;_; King Thunderbolt is my number one fan.
scisco Teebag Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 0	Posted - 2014.08.02 17:55:00 - [53] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: The only problem I could see this becoming is an issue with not being able to come back from a redline. Especially in PC. Yesterday we played a match where we were five capped because we got into the match late. But we managed to turn the whole game around and five cap them, and win. How would there be any epic comebacks like this if the matches end quicker? ;_; Thank you Patrick! I think synergy idea is ridiculous maybe a small spool up time on the fire rate to increase fire rate on single null Canon's the longer it's held increasing its launch rate slightly, I also like how it is now but if it was more than a constructive question asking about the grouped rof increase I feel ccp should give me my money back so I can buy a game that makes sense.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo 243	Posted - 2014.08.02 18:05:00 - [54] - Quote A decent bonus for the losing side would be lowered spawn time on uplinks... Better chance of getting a large number of the team out of the redzone... Or maybe an option to teleport to uplinks from somewhere in the redzone so people don't have to die and waste clones before becoming useful.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4631	Posted - 2014.08.02 20:29:00 - [55] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: I've got 35m sp and constant 3 or 5-1 kd weekly I play in pc almost daily I'm far from inexperienced and would probably dominate with this Iimplemented. All I'm saying is that this is in no way friendly to those with less experience and sp. It caters only to strong corps with active numbers. Don't be such a bleeding heart. Mercy of death is important. Patrick57 wrote: The only problem I could see this becoming is an issue with not being able to come back from a redline. Especially in PC. Yesterday we played a match where we were five capped because we got into the match late. But we managed to turn the whole game around and five cap them, and win. How would there be any epic comebacks like this if the matches end quicker? ;_; Get into the match on time? Comn, let's look at this objectively. A gameplay mechanic's status should not be dependent upon one team which cannot be bothered or organized enough to get into the match when they had a full 24 hours to prepare.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7972	Posted - 2014.08.02 20:35:00 - [56] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: I've got 35m sp and constant 3 or 5-1 kd weekly I play in pc almost daily I'm far from inexperienced and would probably dominate with this Iimplemented. All I'm saying is that this is in no way friendly to those with less experience and sp. It caters only to strong corps with active numbers. Don't be such a bleeding heart. Mercy of death is important. Patrick57 wrote: The only problem I could see this becoming is an issue with not being able to come back from a redline. Especially in PC. Yesterday we played a match where we were five capped because we got into the match late. But we managed to turn the whole game around and five cap them, and win. How would there be any epic comebacks like this if the matches end quicker? ;_; Get into the match on time? Comn, let's look at this objectively. A gameplay mechanic's status should not be dependent upon one team which cannot be bothered or organized enough to get into the match when they had a full 24 hours to prepare. We were on very short notice. We weren't able to get a team together until it already started (we were ringing ). I guess that time it was human error (or stupidity), but I still don't see people being able to come back from being redlined, even if they are putting in the effort and trying. :\ King Thunderbolt is my number one fan.
Jathniel G I A N T 1128	Posted - 2014.08.02 22:33:00 - [57] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: A decent bonus for the losing side would be lowered spawn time on uplinks... Better chance of getting a large number of the team out of the redzone... Or maybe an option to teleport to uplinks from somewhere in the redzone so people don't have to die and waste clones before becoming useful. What this guy said. A buff to the losing team's spawn timers, to keep them in the fight. You want to win quickly? Clone them out. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 240	Posted - 2014.08.02 23:04:00 - [58] - Quote I'm a NO on this one and agree with the previous posters who see this more as rewarding pubstomp crews than grantinf a "merciful" end to redlined scrubs. I do think changing some other parameters tho could glean similiar results. Others have posted ideas in other threads about "fixing" the redlines so players HAVE to come out and I think the better answer is along those lines. ALL clones being forced into the battlefield means they can't afk or waste time. And are there to be cloned our faster, if their enemy is that much more superior. Meanwhile, since the 4-7 do-nothings or redline snipers can't hide in an inaccessible zone anymore maybe they'll HTFU and get to work. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
DJINN Jecture BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 165	Posted - 2014.08.03 06:36:00 - [59] - Quote Just because I want to throw this out there, rather than synergy, how about a command center firing post for those skilled in say something like Null Cannon Operation (like Starbase Defense Management) but only allow the command center to be used when all 3/4/5 points are captured allowing for greater damage on the opposing MCC and a way to flip the null cannons all over by capturing said command post from the enemy? How long til this hits PC?
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 2094	Posted - 2014.08.03 10:22:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It's already on our list, my simple idea was a synergy bonus to the Null-Cannons, If all are held, there is a 50% rate of fire bonus, or something along those lines. It also encourages a team to reach for all three instead of holding on a 2-1 lead in a 3 point Skirmish. Would it be possible to institute instant win conditions, in situations where it is impossible for the losing side to recover? For example. In Skirmish, as MCC's do minimal amounts of damage to each other regardless of whether any null canons are held, one team may be in a position where, even if the enemy were to take all null canons and hold them for the rest of the match, they would still win. Would also need to consider clone count (leading side has 2x clones perhaps?), but might tidy up a couple of the completely hopeless matches. Or possibly in Ambush where the leading side has 10x more clones than the trailing side? Knowledge is power



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