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OP FOTM
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
180
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Posted - 2014.07.27 07:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Copy pasting the precision bonus to the Amarr without getting rid of shared passive scans is NOT GOING TO FIX ANYTHING.
Do you think Nyain San cares if one or two of their squad members has to run 3 or 4 range amps with little to no HP? THEY CAN AFFORD IT.
So guys, bascially Amarr is even worse than the Caldari, because it can get an even longer range than they used to get. This is CCP's "solution."
CCP, I thought I was going to start liking you again. I really did. Then you announced this event.
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
147
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Posted - 2014.07.27 15:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
i agree with getting rid of shared passive scans
but then active scanners will need a buff.. and to share the info with the whole team aswell as give WP for ANYONE(not just squad) on the team killing a "Tagged" hostile
maybe change passive to squad only or just self.. self would be the best idea only IF the active scanners get BOOFed
Minmatar Logibro in training. Rusty needles anyone?
No Mic and no time for "Squeekers"
Nerf scout cloak+shotgun
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3730
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Posted - 2014.07.27 15:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:i agree with getting rid of shared passive scans
but then active scanners will need a buff.. and to share the info with the whole team aswell as give WP for ANYONE(not just squad) on the team killing a "Tagged" hostile
maybe change passive to squad only or just self.. self would be the best idea only IF the active scanners get BOOFed
Problem is a single gal. logi with flux scanners could scan the whole map (200m range) for the whole team. Sure it would require to fill 4 slots with active scanners but the advantage for the team would be undeniable.
New shield module!
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
2944
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Posted - 2014.07.27 16:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
This is a known issue.
Rattati has looked into it.
It looks to be a larger technical issue than thought.
If they are able to fix it, they will. It is just not happening at the moment, if it is possible at all given constraints.
This is how a minja feels
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1770
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Posted - 2014.07.27 20:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
YEAH F*CK TEAMWORK!!!
HOW DARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER!? |
One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
2947
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Posted - 2014.07.27 20:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:YEAH F*CK TEAMWORK!!!
HOW DARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER!?
That is not working together, that is a broken mechanic.
Heavies are supposed to have a weakness of being blind. Add a fully decked Cal scout and suddenly a group of 5 heavies can see everything but fully dampened Gal scouts coming at them.
That is just broken.
If you want shared scans, have people running active scanners that have a time duration, cool down, and limited field of scanning.
This is how a minja feels
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501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
403
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Posted - 2014.07.27 20:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
I personally think shared passives isn't such a bad thing. You're a scout, but you have no mic. How are you going to tell your teammates. Versus, you have passive scans so they can tell, no words needed.
Why is shared so bad?
From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men
CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1770
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Posted - 2014.07.27 20:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:YEAH F*CK TEAMWORK!!!
HOW DARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER!? That is not working together, that is a broken mechanic. Heavies are supposed to have a weakness of being blind. Add a fully decked Cal scout and suddenly a group of 5 heavies can see everything but fully dampened Gal scouts coming at them. That is just broken. If you want shared scans, have people running active scanners that have a time duration, cool down, and limited field of scanning.
Using one suits strength to cover another's weakness isn't working together?
In Charlie, it will be very easy for almost every scout suit to dodge even Amarr passives. Boom, a counter. (Only exception a the STD Cal)
Just because you're scanned doesn't mean they automatically win. Counter with more teamwork.
And it still only applies to the squad, so 5 other people total.
I disagree with CCP's claim that active scanners should be more powerful than passives. Sure they have a limited angle and a cooldown, but it's still just one module slot. A dedicated scan scout fills at least half (3-4 or more of its 6 at proto) of its slots to be effective, sacrificing virtually all of its combat effectiveness to do so.
Without shared passives, scan scouts are devalued severely and teamwork as a whole takes a hit. |
JP Acuna
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
222
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Posted - 2014.07.27 21:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Problem is, all scanning modules would only be good for solo play. There's no way you can effectively inform your squad on comms where the enemy is, and absolutely no way to do so without comms. |
Brokerib
Lone Wolves Club
1992
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Posted - 2014.07.28 00:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:Problem is, all scanning modules would only be good for solo play. There's no way you can effectively inform your squad on comms where the enemy is, and absolutely no way to do so without comms.
There are three ways to deal with the results on non-shared passive scans.
1. Use an active scanner the highlight them for your squad. Active scans will still be shared with your squad.
2. Use comms to inform your squad.
3. Go hunting for yourself.
The current iteration of shared passive scans has no downsides in squad play, and no counter outside of a single viable suit/fit.
As an overhaul of the way scanning works (introducing fall off/partial results/etc) is off the cards, this is the best available solution.
Knowledge is power
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
3324
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Posted - 2014.07.28 00:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Brokerib wrote:
As an overhaul of the way scanning works (introducing fall off/partial results/etc) is off the cards, this is the best available solution.
Rattati indicated that it may not be possible.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Alena Ventrallis
S0VER31GN
1499
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Posted - 2014.07.28 00:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Requires a client side update. Won't happen.
Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
2953
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Posted - 2014.07.28 02:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:YEAH F*CK TEAMWORK!!!
HOW DARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER!? That is not working together, that is a broken mechanic. Heavies are supposed to have a weakness of being blind. Add a fully decked Cal scout and suddenly a group of 5 heavies can see everything but fully dampened Gal scouts coming at them. That is just broken. If you want shared scans, have people running active scanners that have a time duration, cool down, and limited field of scanning. Using one suits strength to cover another's weakness isn't working together? In Charlie, it will be very easy for almost every scout suit to dodge even Amarr passives. Boom, a counter. (Only exception a the STD Cal) Just because you're scanned doesn't mean they automatically win. Counter with more teamwork. And it still only applies to the squad, so 5 other people total. I disagree with CCP's claim that active scanners should be more powerful than passives. Sure they have a limited angle and a cooldown, but it's still just one module slot. A dedicated scan scout fills at least half (3-4 or more of its 6 at proto) of its slots to be effective, sacrificing virtually all of its combat effectiveness to do so. Without shared passives, scan scouts are devalued severely and teamwork as a whole takes a hit.
I don't get extra armor because of a heavy adding armor mods.
I don't get extra damage to weapons because a squad mate has damage mods equiped.
It is insane to think that a heavy or 5 with next to no precision reduction can simply add a cal scout and get all the benefits of the mods he has equipped.
It. Is. Stupid.
Wanna see your enemies? Go gal logi with a focused scanner or equip precision on your own scout.
This is how a minja feels
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Brokerib
Lone Wolves Club
1994
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Posted - 2014.07.28 02:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Brokerib wrote:
As an overhaul of the way scanning works (introducing fall off/partial results/etc) is off the cards, this is the best available solution.
Rattati indicated that it may not be possible.
I thought he said it was more technically complex then originally expected, but was still being investigated for Delta or beyond?
Knowledge is power
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501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
405
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Posted - 2014.07.28 04:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:YEAH F*CK TEAMWORK!!!
HOW DARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER!? That is not working together, that is a broken mechanic. Heavies are supposed to have a weakness of being blind. Add a fully decked Cal scout and suddenly a group of 5 heavies can see everything but fully dampened Gal scouts coming at them. That is just broken. If you want shared scans, have people running active scanners that have a time duration, cool down, and limited field of scanning. Using one suits strength to cover another's weakness isn't working together? In Charlie, it will be very easy for almost every scout suit to dodge even Amarr passives. Boom, a counter. (Only exception a the STD Cal) Just because you're scanned doesn't mean they automatically win. Counter with more teamwork. And it still only applies to the squad, so 5 other people total. I disagree with CCP's claim that active scanners should be more powerful than passives. Sure they have a limited angle and a cooldown, but it's still just one module slot. A dedicated scan scout fills at least half (3-4 or more of its 6 at proto) of its slots to be effective, sacrificing virtually all of its combat effectiveness to do so. Without shared passives, scan scouts are devalued severely and teamwork as a whole takes a hit. I don't get extra armor because of a heavy adding armor mods. I don't get extra damage to weapons because a squad mate has damage mods equiped. It is insane to think that a heavy or 5 with next to no precision reduction can simply add a cal scout and get all the benefits of the mods he has equipped. It. Is. Stupid. Wanna see your enemies? Go gal logi with a focused scanner or equip precision on your own scout.
And what of scouts with no mics? You going to force them to get one?
From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men
CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
2955
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Posted - 2014.07.28 04:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:
And what of scouts with no mics? You going to force them to get one?
I don't have the ability to use a mic. I have never had problems. I can still use my ears for those giving orders or relaying info. I can still be relevant.
I can also use active scanners if I want.
There is more to Dust than the Tacnet.
This is how a minja feels
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
3325
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Posted - 2014.07.28 05:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Brokerib wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Brokerib wrote:
As an overhaul of the way scanning works (introducing fall off/partial results/etc) is off the cards, this is the best available solution.
Rattati indicated that it may not be possible. I thought he said it was more technically complex then originally expected, but was still being investigated for Delta or beyond?
Yes, you are absolutely correct.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Boot Booter
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dark Taboo
789
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Posted - 2014.07.28 06:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Yeah remove it. It's dumb.
What happened to the repair tool glow?
Why won't CCP answer?
Conspiracy?
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11348
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Posted - 2014.07.28 09:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:Problem is, all scanning modules would only be good for solo play. There's no way you can effectively inform your squad on comms where the enemy is, and absolutely no way to do so without comms.
Oh, you mean like you can't share dampening? 
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Mejt0
Made in Poland...
E-R-A
231
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Posted - 2014.07.28 13:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Its complex and hard to fix.
Scanning is scout job. And thats thier squad job.
Btw. Amarr will be terrible at scaning.
Slow, small range, and low hp if he wants to eqiup them.
Every scout will need 2damp, or 2damps + cloak to avoid them. And amarr with 4amps have smaller/eqiual range as cal now.
-~-~-Caldari Loyalist-~-~-
Markiplier fan.
Hollywood Undead ,rocks.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3160
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Posted - 2014.07.28 14:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
What's the point in having a scout designed for passive scanning if he can't share his scan data?
Sharing scan data makes people run more varied squads.
It actually promotes team play and using suits more than just for killing people.
Really all the needs to happen in order to facilitate this change is Range Exntenders and Prescision Enhancers swap places.
Either that or the proposed skills for Amarr and Caldari need to be swaped around.
That part is upto the devs.
But why get rid of sharing scan data? All it does is promote more Scouts to play slayer based roles, since their main function EWAR, doesn't benifit the squad.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
249
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Posted - 2014.07.28 15:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
I honestly dont see the problem with shared tacnet and passive scans, but then again I have been playing since EVERY THIS was on tacnet ALWAYS. I am guessing that all the complaints are coming from some version of this build:
Gallente scout--- Dampeners--- Shotgun
yes I get it you want to spend the entire match flanking and 2 shotting everyone with little to no risk of getting dead.
Crying nerf to your hard counter makes sense, hard to go 40-0 when one squad member on the other team has 300 eHP.
There is really not much sympathy coming from me when a gallente logi will do the same thing with 4 scanners in his equipment slots more effectively in Charlie with a much higher eHP. Yes active scanners need to be activated big deal you also get the annoying "you have been scanned" on your screen the entire match. |
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1708
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Posted - 2014.07.28 15:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:I personally think shared passives isn't such a bad thing. You're a scout, but you have no mic. How are you going to tell your teammates. Versus, you have passive scans so they can tell, no words needed.
Why is shared so bad?
In most non-competitive settings, shared passives are perfectly fine. In a PC, however, where HMG heavies are the most dominant and competitive force, their one weakness can be completely eliminated by a super strong scanner scout.
If you want shared scans, use an active scanner.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
Give the Minja active dampening!
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
2964
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Posted - 2014.07.28 16:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:I honestly dont see the problem with shared tacnet and passive scans, but then again I have been playing since EVERY THIS was on tacnet ALWAYS. I am guessing that all the complaints are coming from some version of this build:
Gallente scout--- Dampeners--- Shotgun
yes I get it you want to spend the entire match flanking and 2 shotting everyone with little to no risk of getting dead.
Crying nerf to your hard counter makes sense, hard to go 40-0 when one squad member on the other team has 300 eHP.
There is really not much sympathy coming from me when a gallente logi will do the same thing with 4 scanners in his equipment slots more effectively in Charlie with a much higher eHP. Yes active scanners need to be activated big deal you also get the annoying "you have been scanned" on your screen the entire match.
A gal scout with 4 damps has always been able to beat all scans. So shared passive is not only ineffective against them, but their ability to be the only scout that can beat them makes it a significant advantage.
That is the reason you only see gal and cal scouts out there right now. Because Cal can broadcast all but gal scouts positions to everyone in their squad, and because gal scout is the only counter to always on, 360 shared passives.
Hence the reason the changes in Charlie needed to be what they are, so that Amarr and Minmatar scouts can also have a role, and so that shared passives are less of an issue as they will no longer involve low precision + significant range.
This is how a minja feels
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4062
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Posted - 2014.07.28 18:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Translation- I want to go 52-0 in all matches with my Gallente Scout while packing on 500-700 EHP and not having to worry about dampening up.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Currently on a quest to get all suits to ADV (8 remaining)
PSN: wbrom42
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
3329
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Posted - 2014.07.28 18:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Translation- I want to go 52-0 in all matches with my Gallente Scout while packing on 500-700 EHP and not having to worry about dampening up.
Hyperbole?
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4062
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Posted - 2014.07.28 19:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Translation- I want to go 52-0 in all matches with my Gallente Scout while packing on 500-700 EHP and not having to worry about dampening up. Hyperbole?
Always
Level 4 Forum Warrior Currently on a quest to get all suits to ADV (8 remaining)
PSN: wbrom42
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Boot Booter
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dark Taboo
789
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Posted - 2014.07.28 20:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Translation- I want to go 52-0 in all matches with my Gallente Scout while packing on 500-700 EHP and not having to worry about dampening up.
Translation - I don't think it's fair when heavies are able to hunt me down as if they were a cal scout.
Not everyone in this game is a scout and wants these changes so they can pack armor on.
What happened to the repair tool glow?
Why won't CCP answer?
Conspiracy?
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4063
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Posted - 2014.07.28 20:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Translation- I want to go 52-0 in all matches with my Gallente Scout while packing on 500-700 EHP and not having to worry about dampening up. Translation - I don't think it's fair when heavies are able to hunt me down as if they were a cal scout. Not everyone in this game is a scout and wants these changes so they can pack armor on.
I hear you, it's just hard to imagine the game without it now.
Perhaps it could work, but to me it's too much of a drastic change at this point.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Currently on a quest to get all suits to ADV (8 remaining)
PSN: wbrom42
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Alena Ventrallis
S0VER31GN
1502
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Posted - 2014.07.28 20:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tie active scans to suit precision, and you have a deal.
Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
2964
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Posted - 2014.07.28 20:35:00 -
[31] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Tie active scans to suit precision, and you have a deal.
Gal Logis might hate that.
This is how a minja feels
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Cornballs Get Stonewalled
970
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Posted - 2014.07.28 21:44:00 -
[32] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Tie active scans to suit precision, and you have a deal. Gal Logis might hate that.
You don't care about Cal scouts so why would you care unless your a Gal logi and feel like your toes are walked upon by Cal scouts .
If people are being hunted down by a slow running massively weighted down heavy then they are officially a scrub .
Man up and pull your G-string out of your butts and lay off the shared scanning .
It's the only thing that a Cal scout have .
I swear that you people get bored and come up with the dumbest things to b!tch about .
If they can see you and the notification telling you that you are being scanned pops up , then it's time to find the one scanning or change locations .
This is why active scanners are horrible now but you people want no way to be detected like that's going to make you any better because if your complaining about shared scan , chances are your just a scrub anyway .
No I don't run Cal scouts , have them but I play Min logi with a scanner , a scanner that's kind of like $h!t from the last time people whined about active scanners .
Get gud scrubs .
You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
2964
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Posted - 2014.07.28 21:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Tie active scans to suit precision, and you have a deal. Gal Logis might hate that. You don't care about Cal scouts so why would you care unless your a Gal logi and feel like your toes are walked upon by Cal scouts . If people are being hunted down by a slow running massively weighted down heavy then they are officially a scrub . Man up and pull your G-string out of your butts and lay off the shared scanning . It's the only thing that a Cal scout have . I swear that you people get bored and come up with the dumbest things to b!tch about . If they can see you and the notification telling you that you are being scanned pops up , then it's time to find the one scanning or change locations . This is why active scanners are horrible now but you people want no way to be detected like that's going to make you any better because if your complaining about shared scan , chances are your just a scrub anyway . No I don't run Cal scouts , have them but I play Min logi with a scanner , a scanner that's kind of like $h!t from the last time people whined about active scanners . Get gud scrubs .
Actually, the only other suit I have other than my lvl 5 minja and a lvl 1 Minmando is a lvl 4 Cal scout. Every suit should have a role, and suits shouldn't be so OP that they completely negate any possible use of other suits, like a fully decked Cal scout does Amarr and Minamatar scouts.
Not to mention several highly competitive players in PC such as Moody, Ghost Kaiser, and Mr Musturd have all repeated the refrain that shared scanning on these Cal scouts make the suit worthless in on a competitive level.
I have no points in a Gal Logi, but given that their bonus is to active scanning, it gives them a role that should not be taken away by always active 360 shared scanning.
I want balance. I just find it ironic that you want a broken system that allows heavies with perfect sight, and a Cal scout to run around without worries of weakness for maxing precision and range because all his heavy squad mates have to do is protect him, then call others a scrub.
Only scrubs protect a crutch like shared scanning.
This is how a minja feels
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
251
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Posted - 2014.07.28 22:13:00 -
[34] - Quote
Big surprise, players that run cloaked shotguns want shared scans removed.
Players think that a squad of 4 organized players shouldn't have an advantage over 4 random cloaked scrubs . |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Cornballs Get Stonewalled
970
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Posted - 2014.07.28 23:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:
Actually, the only other suit I have other than my lvl 5 minja and a lvl 1 Minmando is a lvl 4 Cal scout. Every suit should have a role, and suits shouldn't be so OP that they completely negate any possible use of other suits, like a fully decked Cal scout does Amarr and Minamatar scouts.
Not to mention several highly competitive players in PC such as Moody, Ghost Kaiser, and Mr Musturd have all repeated the refrain that shared scanning on these Cal scouts make the suit worthless in on a competitive level.
I have no points in a Gal Logi, but given that their bonus is to active scanning, it gives them a role that should not be taken away by always active 360 shared scanning.
I want balance. I just find it ironic that you want a broken system that allows heavies with perfect sight, and a Cal scout to run around without worries of weakness for maxing precision and range because all his heavy squad mates have to do is protect him, then call others a scrub.
Only scrubs protect a crutch like shared scanning.
I don't care about the players that you name , all prototype players who complain about passive scanners .
I know that you had to throw their names in there like that's calls for merit as to your opinion .
It doesn't , if players that have several tens of millions plus the same in their SP banks , while most of the community can't even fathom what that feels like but yet they still complain , then there is something wrong with that picture .
But you would be quick to tell anyone else to " Adapt or die ."
Players as such are killing the game for those who are just trying to get a foothold in this game , kill the fun because you like to stay at the top and try to push any and everybody off of any footing .
Let's just get rid of Tacnet , E-war and scanners all together so that everybody can fight head's up and that would make it more interesting .
You people have you clique's and such so name dropping means nothing to me , even more so when your trying to be EVE famous .
You people are killing this game with your random calls for nerfs , changes and buffs .
It doesn't matter anyway because you can all have this crap that will be legion soon enough and you can all be dysfunctional together , trying to be EVE famous .
I can't wait til they shut these servers down .
Most of you are worst than Buzz Killington .
You make calls for changes and don't have the gumption to allow SP refunds because you sit on a pile of unallocated SP's but you call the rest of the community to grind away while you laugh your way to the next FOTM .
Who's the scrub protecting what crutch ? First you kill active scanning by ranting / complaining and now you would love to kill the Cal scout .
Sad , just sad .
You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Cornballs Get Stonewalled
970
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Posted - 2014.07.28 23:17:00 -
[36] - Quote
Also , let you tell it , a Gal scout can get past scanners anyway , so that negates any use for other suits that are trying to scan it , is that not right ???
You sure like to double talk don't you , should be in politics the way you can place a spin on things in trying to justify your opinion .
You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
2975
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Posted - 2014.07.29 01:54:00 -
[37] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:
I don't care about the players that you name , all prototype players who complain about passive scanners .
I know that you had to throw their names in there like that's calls for merit as to your opinion .
It doesn't , if players that have several tens of millions plus the same in their SP banks , while most of the community can't even fathom what that feels like but yet they still complain , then there is something wrong with that picture .
But you would be quick to tell anyone else to " Adapt or die ."
Players as such are killing the game for those who are just trying to get a foothold in this game , kill the fun because you like to stay at the top and try to push any and everybody off of any footing .
Let's just get rid of Tacnet , E-war and scanners all together so that everybody can fight head's up and that would make it more interesting .
You people have you clique's and such so name dropping means nothing to me , even more so when your trying to be EVE famous .
You people are killing this game with your random calls for nerfs , changes and buffs .
It doesn't matter anyway because you can all have this crap that will be legion soon enough and you can all be dysfunctional together , trying to be EVE famous .
I can't wait til they shut these servers down .
Most of you are worst than Buzz Killington .
You make calls for changes and don't have the gumption to allow SP refunds because you sit on a pile of unallocated SP's but you call the rest of the community to grind away while you laugh your way to the next FOTM .
Who's the scrub protecting what crutch ? First you kill active scanning by ranting / complaining and now you would love to kill the Cal scout .
Sad , just sad .
Random calls for nerfs? The scout community, when we were so UP that about 5% of all players bothered playing scouts, has always said that if buffs to the suits went too far, we would be the first to call for changes. Not to mention that most of us have been asking for an Assault buff so that they are viable and have a role as well.
The "clique" as you describe it, is really a community that has banded together and stuck around because of that for the many months that Scouts were irrelevant. Maybe you weren't here for that, but between May 14, 2013 when they game released, and March 2014 when 1.8 dropped, the scout role was in a horrible place, and for many months we were completely ignored despite the obvious issues, always being told buffs were on the way, and always disappointed when month after month we were ignored. I apologize that we have become close as a result. I can see how that would be offensive...
1.8 came out, there was a respec, and seemingly half or more of the population were running scouts, many of which were cloaked and tanked at the same time. There were issues that needed addressed. The nerf to cloak dampening just further forced tanking and reduced Minmatar and Amarr viability to nothing.
Changes need to be made. Not all changes were nerfs. Amarr got a role, and a significant buff. Minmatar are no longer lighting up on radar, but have to make a significant sacrifice in order to beat max scans.
If you want to take personal shots, go ahead.
I am trying to help make this game better, and am willing to listen to others that have a different opinion provided they are able to give data and examples to back it up. You keep attacking the person, and not the idea, precisely because you don't have a leg to stand on.
I have yet to hear a legitimate reason for shared permanent active scans.
This is how a minja feels
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
3345
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Posted - 2014.07.29 02:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
Good writeup, King.
The vast majority of old-school Scouts favor removal of shared squad sight. Reasons:
1. It technically is not supposed to be happening (see patch notes).
2. Recon becoming an "active" role would be more rewarding for the recon unit.
3. Would make for more interesting infiltration vs counter-infiltration interplay.
4. Would make for a better balanced and easier to tweak ewar framework.
5. The current "Ultimate Scans x6" is too strong (reward outweighs risk).
- 49M SP Cal/Gal Scout
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
251
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 05:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
99% of scouts that ever played have no problem with shared scans on a 300 eHP suit that does the samething active scans do on a 1000 eHPsuit.
All stats verified and true.
Why remove one but not the other? Is that the next suit cloaked shot gunners will cry about?
get some gun game and quit relying on cloak and flank crutch.
guess what removing passive scans will increase 100 fold... yes cloaked shotgun scouts, 16 vs 16 cloaked shotgun scouts.
99% of all scouts that ever played agree.
65 million sp
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Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
746
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 12:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Heavies are supposed to have a weakness of being blind.
Skill up precision then?
I have Lvl 5 in all the passive 'scout' skills - my heavy can passive scan other suits quite well thx 
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OP FOTM
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
186
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Posted - 2014.07.29 17:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:99% of scouts that ever played have no problem with shared scans on a 300 eHP suit that does the samething active scans do on a 1000 eHPsuit.
All stats verified and true.
Why remove one but not the other? Is that the next suit cloaked shot gunners will cry about?
get some gun game and quit relying on cloak and flank crutch.
guess what removing passive scans will increase 100 fold... yes cloaked shotgun scouts, 16 vs 16 cloaked shotgun scouts.
99% of all scouts that ever played agree.
65 million sp
the shotgun scouts are already dampened anyway you bloody moron
oh snap guys! Doc DDD said something, and he's on the big ISK payroll! Better listen to him!
Of course HE, THE OP TANKER doesn't even MENTION that tanks are exploiting the scout dropsuit scans because it's a glitch that applies while inside a tank.
Doc, don't you realize something? Isn't removing shared tacnet going to... GASP... promote using the active scanner on non-Gallente logis?! Or GASP... maybe actually PROMOTE SCOUTS TO USE ACTUAL SCOUT TACTICS instead of RUNNING AROUND LIKE INVINCIBLE GODS WITH THEIR OP SCANS?
B-b-but guys! We need OP scan scouts to fight the OP scan scouts!  This is why I'll always be proud I never became one of you "high profile Dust players." You're all a bunch of high school drama mimicking popular kids. Grow up.
CCP, I thought I was going to start liking you again. I really did. Then you announced this event.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
3359
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 18:09:00 -
[42] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:
99% of all scouts that ever played agree...
Nice numbers you have there. When you get time, swing by the Barbershop and ask the Scouts themselves what they think. I doubt you'll find that such a high percentage in agreement about anything.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4064
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Posted - 2014.07.29 19:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:99% of scouts that ever played have no problem with shared scans on a 300 eHP suit that does the samething active scans do on a 1000 eHPsuit.
All stats verified and true.
Why remove one but not the other? Is that the next suit cloaked shot gunners will cry about?
get some gun game and quit relying on cloak and flank crutch.
guess what removing passive scans will increase 100 fold... yes cloaked shotgun scouts, 16 vs 16 cloaked shotgun scouts.
99% of all scouts that ever played agree.
65 million sp
This is so painfully obvious that it hurts.
You HAVE to have a Cal Scout set up to scan a Gal Scout in PC. I played in three PCs yesterday. In two of them our heavy squad didn't have a Cal Scout. In both of those matches a Gal Scout got 35+ kills. The setup to combat the Gal Scout is beyond squishy and basically needs to play passive to keep the scans going.
If you take away shared scans it WILL put the final nail I the coffin. If anything is one of the only carrots to get randoms into squads.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Currently on a quest to get all suits to ADV (8 remaining)
PSN: wbrom42
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OP FOTM
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
194
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 19:50:00 -
[44] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Translation- I want to go 52-0 in all matches with my Gallente Scout while packing on 500-700 EHP and not having to worry about dampening up.
amarr's getting it now... do you know how many of you FOTM thumpers already have the amarr anyway... it's going to be a smooth transition on your side. the ISK rich side.
god i hope we dont have to deal with "rich players" in destiny... you guys are like the worst kind of internet trolls
Dust servers will be a ghost town on 09/09/14
Destiny kicks ass... Like Halo knocked up Mass Effect and gave birth
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OP FOTM
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
194
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 20:01:00 -
[45] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:
Problem is a single gal. logi with flux scanners could scan the whole map (200m range) for the whole team. Sure it would require to fill 4 slots with active scanners but the advantage for the team would be undeniable.
i own one. they don't even use us in PC... invite me to a channel and i'll ring for you though
Dust servers will be a ghost town on 09/09/14
Destiny kicks ass... Like Halo knocked up Mass Effect and gave birth
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
2995
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Posted - 2014.07.29 20:49:00 -
[46] - Quote
Happy Violentime wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Heavies are supposed to have a weakness of being blind. Skill up precision then? I have Lvl 5 in all the passive 'scout' skills - my heavy can passive scan other suits quite well thx
Very smart.
I have all my scoutly skills at 5, precision, range, dampening etc.
But playing solo you don't have the precision a cal scout would have, and if you have one in squad, a heavy with 0 sp in precision can still know exactly where I am while having 5 times the ehp and a face melting weapon. That is a problem..
This is how a minja feels
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Larry Desmo
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2014.07.29 22:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
OP FOTM wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Translation- I want to go 52-0 in all matches with my Gallente Scout while packing on 500-700 EHP and not having to worry about dampening up. amarr's getting it now... do you know how many of you FOTM thumpers already have the amarr anyway... it's going to be a smooth transition on your side. the ISK rich side. god i hope we dont have to deal with "rich players" in destiny... you guys are like the worst kind of internet trolls
looks to me like your just mad cause your poor, what u got in that little wallet 300k, 400k, lol |
Larry Desmo
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2014.07.29 22:49:00 -
[48] - Quote
shared scans are not a problem, a squad should have a synchronized tacnet why should you squad up if not? |
OP FOTM
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
201
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Posted - 2014.07.29 22:55:00 -
[49] - Quote
Larry Desmo wrote:
looks to me like your just mad cause your poor, what u got in that little wallet 300k, 400k, lol
ever since kain spero fail collapsed the blue donut i've been sitting on at least 10 million isk at a time. last i checked today i was at 20 mil.
uh let me explain why shared tacnet is a problem...
- heavies aren't supposed to see you
- logis without scanners arent supposed to see you
- brick tanked scouts without EWAR aren't supposed to see you after their caldari scout buddies track you down
it literally takes the guesswork out of COMMS WITH YOUR TEAM. INTEL. It makes INTEL EASY MODE.
******* HMGS ARENT SUPPOSED TO SEE EVERYONE ON THE MAP ESPECIALLY SCOUTS
WHY DO YOU THINK GAL LOGI'S FOCUSED SCANNER IS SO BAD? SCANNING OTHER SCOUTS IS OP AND BROKEN
Dust servers will be a ghost town on 09/09/14
Destiny kicks ass... Like Halo knocked up Mass Effect and gave birth
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Larry Desmo
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
63
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 23:04:00 -
[50] - Quote
im tired of this OP UP bullshlt, nerf this nerf that, buff this buff that, its the same people every time, the same people who ruined the content development for dumbass number tweeks. just play the fkn game, if your not asking for a content expansion STFU |
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OP FOTM
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
203
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Posted - 2014.07.29 23:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
Larry Desmo wrote:im tired of this OP UP bullshlt, nerf this nerf that, buff this buff that, its the same people every time, the same people who ruined the content development for dumbass number tweeks. just play the fkn game, if your not asking for a content expansion STFU
you know what
shut the servers down. i'm tired of this game, period. destiny FTW
Dust servers will be a ghost town on 09/09/14
Destiny kicks ass... Like Halo knocked up Mass Effect and gave birth
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
3000
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 23:16:00 -
[52] - Quote
Larry Desmo wrote:im tired of this OP UP bullshlt, nerf this nerf that, buff this buff that, its the same people every time, the same people who ruined the content development for dumbass number tweeks. just play the fkn game, if your not asking for a content expansion STFU
Seriously.
We should just settle for a broken game with no balance where only a few suits out of all possibilities are viable, and we should just completely ignore the variety of roles and gear. I mean, who cares that assaults as a whole have no role and are out performed by scouts what should be their wheelhouse. Nothing should be buffed or nerfed. It is perfect.
This is how a minja feels
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OP FOTM
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
203
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 23:23:00 -
[53] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Larry Desmo wrote:im tired of this OP UP bullshlt, nerf this nerf that, buff this buff that, its the same people every time, the same people who ruined the content development for dumbass number tweeks. just play the fkn game, if your not asking for a content expansion STFU Seriously. We should just settle for a broken game with no balance where only a few suits out of all possibilities are viable, and we should just completely ignore the variety of roles and gear. I mean, who cares that assaults as a whole have no role and are out performed by scouts what should be their wheelhouse. Nothing should be buffed or nerfed. It is perfect.
EXACTLY.
Keep shared tacnet, KEEP ASSAULT USELESS.
Dust servers will be a ghost town on 09/09/14
Destiny kicks ass... Like Halo knocked up Mass Effect and gave birth
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Larry Desmo
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
63
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 00:08:00 -
[54] - Quote
i think the balance is fine for the most part, the whole problem was ccp was balancing things without all of the content to balance it against hotfix bravo prety much fixed almost all of the problems with the balance issue, and hotfix charlie looks like its catering to you buff nerf idiots rather than actually doing anything of benefit. ccp rattati needs to look like he is got something to do else he would be out of a job.
new content should always take priority over number tweeks, wtf happened to amar vehicles, minmatar vehicles, or thoose plasma cannon variants.
how about asking for some real content before whining to ccp to get something nerfed so you can use the next precived over powered fit untill you decide whatever can counter it is the next op thing and needs to be nerfed.
the guns are fine
the suits are fine
the vehicles are fine
the lack of promised content and developer support is not fine |
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3177
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 02:34:00 -
[55] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:501st Headstrong wrote:I personally think shared passives isn't such a bad thing. You're a scout, but you have no mic. How are you going to tell your teammates. Versus, you have passive scans so they can tell, no words needed.
Why is shared so bad? In most non-competitive settings, shared passives are perfectly fine. In a PC, however, where HMG heavies are the most dominant and competitive force, their one weakness can be completely eliminated by a super strong scanner scout. If you want shared scans, use an active scanner.
Hold on, are you saying you want to nerf teamwork?
Trust me, if heavies are prelevant in PC giving the TACNET blindness won't cure anything. They only have to run in groups of 4, with a logi in a LAV.
Stop trying to nerf teamwork becuase you can't solo it.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3177
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 02:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
Larry Desmo wrote:i think the balance is fine for the most part, the whole problem was ccp was balancing things without all of the content to balance it against hotfix bravo prety much fixed almost all of the problems with the balance issue, and hotfix charlie looks like its catering to you buff nerf idiots rather than actually doing anything of benefit. ccp rattati needs to look like he is got something to do else he would be out of a job.
new content should always take priority over number tweeks, wtf happened to amar vehicles, minmatar vehicles, or thoose plasma cannon variants.
how about asking for some real content before whining to ccp to get something nerfed so you can use the next precived over powered fit untill you decide whatever can counter it is the next op thing and needs to be nerfed.
the guns are fine
the suits are fine
the vehicles are fine
the lack of promised content and developer support is not fine
Umm? Who's gonna tell this guy they aren't making any more new content for DUST, EVER?
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3177
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 02:42:00 -
[57] - Quote
OP FOTM wrote:Larry Desmo wrote:
looks to me like your just mad cause your poor, what u got in that little wallet 300k, 400k, lol
ever since kain spero fail collapsed the blue donut i've been sitting on at least 10 million isk at a time. last i checked today i was at 20 mil. uh let me explain why shared tacnet is a problem...
- heavies aren't supposed to see you
- logis without scanners arent supposed to see you
- brick tanked scouts without EWAR aren't supposed to see you after their caldari scout buddies track you down
it literally takes the guesswork out of COMMS WITH YOUR TEAM. INTEL. It makes INTEL EASY MODE. ******* HMGS ARENT SUPPOSED TO SEE EVERYONE ON THE MAP ESPECIALLY SCOUTS WHY DO YOU THINK GAL LOGI'S FOCUSED SCANNER IS SO BAD? SCANNING OTHER SCOUTS IS OP AND BROKEN WHY ARE EVEN GAL LOGI'S SCANS BAD? THEY'RE OP AND NEEDED TO BE NERFED Scouts are running around with SCANNERINAS that everyone was complaining about active scanners doing 360 degree scans of EVERYTHING. It took the guess work out of the game, it took STRATEGY OUT OF THE GAME
Why? Is it bad that at least 3 people can't engage in frontline combat without dying, while still having to be near the front line?
Tell me though what is the actual point of an EWAR Scout if it isn't for EWAR?
Intel is part and parcel of Electronic Warfare, there is literally no reason for Caldari or Amarr Scout suits to exsist if they don't share their scan data.
Go on, name a function the the Caldari or Amarr scout suits that neither the Gallante or Minmatar can do.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
255
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Posted - 2014.07.30 05:46:00 -
[58] - Quote
All I see in this thread is the same broke scrub, who thinks that scout scans work while piloting a tank, moaning about a suit thats' sole purpose is counter cloaked flankers.
You have no idea how to play the game.
Get good.
Your whole arguement is that by losing suit diversity, particularly cal scouts with precision enhancers, we will gain suit diversity. Do you see the flaw in your logic?
By removing shared passive scans, you remove that niche playstyle. PAPERTHIN EWAR ( the scout doesn't kill you, his squadmate does )
You will only gain:
- more cloaked shotgunners flanking (and killing you )
-more heavies covering the back of the squad instead of just pushing forward (and killing you)
-more gal logis with 4 scanners spamming scans the entire match. (scanning and then killing you with 1000ehp)
this does not increase diversity on the battlefield, you will still die like a scrub.
Yes if you really think 99% of scouts ever agreed on anything then there are a lot of 'fuzzy statistics' thrown around in this thread you probably believe too...
Now just ask yourself.....
Do you want shared tacnet for passive scans removed so that you can cloak and flank:
ALL HEAVIES
ALL COMMANDOS
ALL ASSAULT SUITS
ALL LOGI SUITS WITHOUT 4 SCANNERS EQUIPPED
ALL SCOUT SUITS WITHOUT PRECISION ENHANCERS
?????
If that's why you want shared tacnet removed then please stop playing this game as you are garbage. YOU WANT THERE TO BE NO COUNTER FOR YOUR SUIT AND YOU WANT US TO TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY.
GUESS WHAT... CLOAKED SCOUTS FLANKING WITH SHOTGUNS ARE NOT THE COUNTER FOR A SQUAD WITH AN EFFECTIVE SCAN BONUS.... IF YOU CANT COUNTER THIS SQUAD WITH ONE PLAYER HAVING ONLY 300ehp PLEASE STOP PLAYING THIS GAME. PICK UP A RIFLE OR HMG AND GET SOME GUN GAME OR GTFO.
Or continue posting about how broke you are and about how removing roles actually increases roles or how kain spero has oppressed you and you require immediate reparations. I would rather see cloaks disappear with the amount of whiny indignant children using them as a crutch and QQing at their ONLY COUNTER.
Stay broke. |
SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
192
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 06:27:00 -
[59] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:i agree with getting rid of shared passive scans
but then active scanners will need a buff.. and to share the info with the whole team aswell as give WP for ANYONE(not just squad) on the team killing a "Tagged" hostile
maybe change passive to squad only or just self.. self would be the best idea only IF the active scanners get BOOFed Problem is a single gal. logi with flux scanners could scan the whole map (200m range) for the whole team. Sure it would require to fill 4 slots with active scanners but the advantage for the team would be undeniable.
that is how it should be. that person should then get crazy amounts of WP for playing an important role in the game. remember, strategy is OP
I'll see you guys on Legion when the Steambox is released
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3181
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Posted - 2014.07.30 10:04:00 -
[60] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:All I see in this thread is the same broke scrub, who thinks that scout scans work while piloting a tank, moaning about a suit thats' sole purpose is counter cloaked flankers.
You have no idea how to play the game.
Get good.
Your whole arguement is that by losing suit diversity, particularly cal scouts with precision enhancers, we will gain suit diversity. Do you see the flaw in your logic?
By removing shared passive scans, you remove that niche playstyle. PAPERTHIN EWAR ( the scout doesn't kill you, his squadmate does )
You will only gain:
- more cloaked shotgunners flanking (and killing you )
-more heavies covering the back of the squad instead of just pushing forward (and killing you)
-more gal logis with 4 scanners spamming scans the entire match. (scanning and then killing you with 1000ehp)
this does not increase diversity on the battlefield, you will still die like a scrub.
Yes if you really think 99% of scouts ever agreed on anything then there are a lot of 'fuzzy statistics' thrown around in this thread you probably believe too...
Now just ask yourself.....
Do you want shared tacnet for passive scans removed so that you can cloak and flank:
ALL HEAVIES
ALL COMMANDOS
ALL ASSAULT SUITS
ALL LOGI SUITS WITHOUT 4 SCANNERS EQUIPPED
ALL SCOUT SUITS WITHOUT PRECISION ENHANCERS
?????
If that's why you want shared tacnet removed then please stop playing this game as you are garbage. YOU WANT THERE TO BE NO COUNTER FOR YOUR SUIT AND YOU WANT US TO TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY.
GUESS WHAT... CLOAKED SCOUTS FLANKING WITH SHOTGUNS ARE NOT THE COUNTER FOR A SQUAD WITH AN EFFECTIVE SCAN BONUS.... IF YOU CANT COUNTER THIS SQUAD WITH ONE PLAYER HAVING ONLY 300ehp PLEASE STOP PLAYING THIS GAME. PICK UP A RIFLE OR HMG AND GET SOME GUN GAME OR GTFO.
Or continue posting about how broke you are and about how removing roles actually increases roles or how kain spero has oppressed you and you require immediate reparations. I would rather see cloaks disappear with the amount of whiny indignant children using them as a crutch and QQing at their ONLY COUNTER.
Stay broke.
No I don't want to run around. In a 700-900 ehp scout suit, who only has to worry about some sorry excuse who's stacked EWAR mods and has less eHP than my little finger.
Gùå Why do you want more flanking scouts, they are the more OP version of scouts?
Gùå Why do you want Gallogis doingnthe exact same thing current scouts are doing - with more eHP?
Gùå Why would you put your most powerful weapon as a tail end charlie?
You can avoid Passive Scans quite easily observe.
G-Scout profile (3x PRO Dampener) 11.45
C-Scout Prescision (3x PRO Enhancer) 15.45
Now this doesn't include the dampening bonus from the cloak either.
Nor does it take into account
Gùå The spare gallante low slot
Gùå 2 gallante high slots.
All of which can be fitted in a manner you deem fit.
The problem people have with Passive Tacnet scans is that they can't run half arsed dampened suits and slip under Everyone's radar.
Most of the people who want passive tacnet sharing gone, are the people who want to have their cake and eat it.
Removing Squad EWAR functions does more to damage the games tactical diversity than, removing them will create Gallogi Spam.
Edit: Sorry just said the same thing as you anyway.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
257
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Posted - 2014.07.30 14:33:00 -
[61] - Quote
Agreed Monkey... the scouts that don't want to run 3 dampeners to get under 3 precisions are the problem. |
Cass Caul
77
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Posted - 2014.07.30 17:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
I'm very surprised to see Doc DDD being a little b*tch.
Such rage there. Probably why he hasn't set foot outside a vehicle in so long.
If you can't keep up, shut up.
Math is easy, you're just stupid.
The Empress of Alts
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Rusty Shallows
Caldari State
1960
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 23:59:00 -
[63] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Tie active scans to suit precision, and you have a deal. Gal Logis might hate that. snipGet gud scrubs . SnipI want balance. I just find it ironic that you want a broken system that allows heavies with perfect sight, and a Cal scout to run around without worries of weakness for maxing precision and range because all his heavy squad mates have to do is protect him, then call others a scrub. Only scrubs protect a crutch like shared scanning.
That shared passive works for Mediums and Light Assaults as well. If we want to sound disparaging about it then we need to be thorough.
It screws with Nova Knife Minjas like nothing else.
Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting.
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
259
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Posted - 2014.07.31 00:43:00 -
[64] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:I'm very surprised to see Doc DDD being a little b*tch.
Such rage there. Probably why he hasn't set foot outside a vehicle in so long.
Just put another dampener on appia. . And some deodorant.
(You stink)
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Cass Caul
123
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Posted - 2014.07.31 00:51:00 -
[65] - Quote
lol
If you can't keep up, shut up.
Math is easy, you're just stupid.
The Empress of Alts
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Cass Caul
125
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Posted - 2014.07.31 01:21:00 -
[66] - Quote
You went all, "OMG I HAVE CAPS LOCK! THAT MAKES ME IMPORTANT!"
Seriously though, you can see my current opinion on the passive vs active scans in the Charlie EWAR thread, I don't think the Gal-Logi should have a bonus to precision that's better than the other Logistics. I like the current proposed value of the Focused Scanner being better than maxed out passive scans.
I liked pre-1.8 when no-one knew passive scans were shared. When I could stack 3 precision mods on my Logi suit and detect almost every scout. When Assault suits could participate in Stealth.
Removal of shared passive scans should help Medium Frames out while flanking.
It should make Active Scanners useful- not OP like before and not nearly useless like now. It won't make them useful in their current iteration because the Gal-Logi bonus to precision needs to be shared across all Logistics but that's more of a Logistics issue that they need to have a comprehensive EQ bonus that makes them better with all EQ instead of just 1.
Did you see the current thought (not yet proposed) of increasing fitting requirements of regular plates on Light Frames to disincentivize them?
Would that affect your opinion if Scouts could not use both Plates and Dampeners at the same time? Without removing slots to still allow things like range amps, codebreakers, repair modules, shield regulators, kinetic catalyzers or cardiac regulators?
I want to run a double-dampened assault or logi again and not have to worry about it being useless, I want the option to not have my position displayed for an entire team when I want to try flanking. My opinion on removal of shared passive scans has very little to do with any of my 4 scout suits and has more to do with my 4 logistics and 4 assaults that I run
I am sorry I smell bad, the perfume had a really pretty flower and with a name like titan aurm I thought it would be really cool.
If you can't keep up, shut up.
Math is easy, you're just stupid.
The Empress of Alts
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OP FOTM
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
237
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Posted - 2014.07.31 02:25:00 -
[67] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:I don't think the Gal-Logi should have a bonus to precision that's better than the other Logistics. .
you better be talking about passive scans...
because what else would you propose? taking ALL the logi bonuses away? i mean that's the whole point of having amarr with better uplinks, caldari better hives, etc
Dust servers will be a ghost town on 09/09/14
Destiny kicks ass... Like Halo knocked up Mass Effect and gave birth
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
263
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Posted - 2014.07.31 02:54:00 -
[68] - Quote
Dampeners on a logi or assault would be nice, the problem is that lvl 5 gal scouts with one dampener, plates, Kincats, cloak and shotgun make it nearly mandatory to have someone full time scanning to stop the bloodbath. It's not uncharacteristic to see those cloaked flankers average 30 kills being invisible 90% of the time.
Removing cloaks would do more for making fewer people run multiple precision enhancers than removing shared scans. Then you would see more dampened assault's, logis, and heavies. But that is never going to happen. Instead we have invisible scouts that are also invisible on tacnet, one or two shotting you from behind, necessitating a squad mate to sacrifice most of their ehp for sensors, only to be met with cries for the nerf bat from the perpetually invisible shotgun flankers.
After active scanners were nerfed, shared tacnet became the only thing keeping dampened gal scouts in check, which has the side effect of making dampened medium suits a waste.
How would you fix this without having every match turn into " let's find one of the 16 cloaked gal scouts on the other team before they one shot me "... ? |
Cass Caul
129
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Posted - 2014.07.31 03:01:00 -
[69] - Quote
OP FOTM wrote:Cass Caul wrote:I don't think the Gal-Logi should have a bonus to precision that's better than the other Logistics. . you better be talking about passive scans... because what else would you propose? taking ALL the logi bonuses away? i mean that's the whole point of having amarr with better uplinks, caldari better hives, etc
No, I don't mean homogenizing Logsitcs skills, I mean each one has a bonus to every equipment. There are two parts to all EQ bonuses. The Gal has Precision and Duration. MN, CA, and AM should all get precision but only GA gets Duration.
AM has number of uses and speed. so give all logistics increase usage. same for the other two. It means that Logistics are the choice for using support Equipment.
If you can't keep up, shut up.
Math is easy, you're just stupid.
The Empress of Alts
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
3028
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Posted - 2014.07.31 03:13:00 -
[70] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Dampeners on a logi or assault would be nice, the problem is that lvl 5 gal scouts with one dampener, plates, Kincats, cloak and shotgun make it nearly mandatory to have someone full time scanning to stop the bloodbath. It's not uncharacteristic to see those cloaked flankers average 30 kills being invisible 90% of the time.
Removing cloaks would do more for making fewer people run multiple precision enhancers than removing shared scans. Then you would see more dampened assault's, logis, and heavies. But that is never going to happen. Instead we have invisible scouts that are also invisible on tacnet, one or two shotting you from behind, necessitating a squad mate to sacrifice most of their ehp for sensors, only to be met with cries for the nerf bat from the perpetually invisible shotgun flankers.
After active scanners were nerfed, shared tacnet became the only thing keeping dampened gal scouts in check, which has the side effect of making dampened medium suits a waste.
How would you fix this without having every match turn into " let's find one of the 16 cloaked gal scouts on the other team before they one shot me "... ?
There are problems, but your solutions are oversimplified and cause just as many if not more problems. You don't just take a hammer to all scouts just because there are problems with 1/4 of the racial options.
For example, CCP is discussing placing the bonus to module efficacy so that scouts have to equip the modules in order to get the bonuses, and will result in less tanking. They have also talked about having a significant penalty to scouts for using armor plates (ferro and reactive would be exempt).
Not to mention the fact that you are greatly exaggerating being perpetually invisible, as duration of cloaks was significantly reduced, and that they still require at least 50% of the cloak stamina to be available in order to cloak. Lastly, cloaks don't make anyone invisible, only less visible. It is still possible to see a cloaked scout, and is rather easy when they are moving.
This is how a minja feels
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Cass Caul
131
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Posted - 2014.07.31 03:15:00 -
[71] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Dampeners on a logi or assault would be nice, the problem is that lvl 5 gal scouts with one dampener, plates, Kincats, cloak and shotgun make it nearly mandatory to have someone full time scanning to stop the bloodbath. It's not uncharacteristic to see those cloaked flankers average 30 kills being invisible 90% of the time.
Removing cloaks would do more for making fewer people run multiple precision enhancers than removing shared scans. Then you would see more dampened assault's, logis, and heavies. But that is never going to happen. Instead we have invisible scouts that are also invisible on tacnet, one or two shotting you from behind, necessitating a squad mate to sacrifice most of their ehp for sensors, only to be met with cries for the nerf bat from the perpetually invisible shotgun flankers.
After active scanners were nerfed, shared tacnet became the only thing keeping dampened gal scouts in check, which has the side effect of making dampened medium suits a waste.
How would you fix this without having every match turn into " let's find one of the 16 cloaked gal scouts on the other team before they one shot me "... ?
How about you try leaving the hyperbole behind and use one of the many scanning tables available, because it just sounds like you're making up numbers to suit your need and creating a narrative so people think you have some reasonable argument to justify a dependence on permanent visibility.
If you can't keep up, shut up.
Math is easy, you're just stupid.
The Empress of Alts
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
264
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Posted - 2014.07.31 03:44:00 -
[72] - Quote
I've used the tables and tried the fittings. If I run one dampener on a gal scout with cloak I can flank, and see nothing but the backs of enemy heads unless there is a scout with precision enhancers making me show up on scans. Switch to weapon, pop, pop, pop, pop, cloak and run away.... yeah they nerfed the duration of cloaks but once out of site it recharges fast enough to cloak up and sprint to the back of the next guys head, pop, pop, pop, cloak and run away. There is no hyperbole here, no need for charts, you simply do this for an entire match. If you turn a corner and see the front of someone you either run away, stop moving, or pop, pop, pop. .. could be your only death.. i spend the entire time away from my team mates and the ONLY thing that counters this is precision enhanced scouts or active scanner pointed in my direction.... if you start running around corners and see enemies tracking you or ready for you then it's time for a suit with more Dampeners. ...
I don't understand why you want scan tables regurgitated in here when everyrhing posted follows the tables. Is the word "perpetual " bothering you? I can change it. The only time I show up on the enemies tacnet is when I'm shooting them in the back of the head, right before I cloak. So running 3 complex Dampeners and a complex cloak keeps me completely unscannable except for the instant my shotgun rounds are entering the back of the enemies head.
Am I wrong? |
Cass Caul
134
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Posted - 2014.07.31 03:52:00 -
[73] - Quote
So you're problem here isn't that cloaks exist, that dampening exists, but that stealth play is viable?
If you can't keep up, shut up.
Math is easy, you're just stupid.
The Empress of Alts
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
264
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Posted - 2014.07.31 03:58:00 -
[74] - Quote
I am all for stealth play as long as there is a counter. |
Cass Caul
134
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Posted - 2014.07.31 04:37:00 -
[75] - Quote
The counter for stealth is called visual awareness.
If you can't keep up, shut up.
Math is easy, you're just stupid.
The Empress of Alts
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
264
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Posted - 2014.07.31 07:29:00 -
[76] - Quote
Visual awareness enabled by precision enhancement |
Echo 1991
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
381
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Posted - 2014.07.31 07:52:00 -
[77] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:The counter for stealth is called visual awareness.
visual awareness doesnt work if you cant actually see the person, doesnt work if they are behind either cos you know, no eyes in the back of the head and all. |
OP FOTM
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
248
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Posted - 2014.07.31 16:22:00 -
[78] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Dampeners on a logi or assault would be nice, the problem is that lvl 5 gal scouts with one dampener, plates, Kincats, cloak and shotgun make it nearly mandatory to have someone full time scanning to stop the bloodbath. It's not uncharacteristic to see those cloaked flankers average 30 kills being invisible 90% of the time.
Removing cloaks would do more for making fewer people run multiple precision enhancers than removing shared scans. Then you would see more dampened assault's, logis, and heavies. But that is never going to happen. Instead we have invisible scouts that are also invisible on tacnet, one or two shotting you from behind, necessitating a squad mate to sacrifice most of their ehp for sensors, only to be met with cries for the nerf bat from the perpetually invisible shotgun flankers.
After active scanners were nerfed, shared tacnet became the only thing keeping dampened gal scouts in check, which has the side effect of making dampened medium suits a waste.
How would you fix this without having every match turn into " let's find one of the 16 cloaked gal scouts on the other team before they one shot me "... ?
Whoa whoa whoa stop right there.
Gal logis with shotguns bro? LOL. IT'S SUCH A SERIOUS PROBLEM. Wow Doc... that's like saying brick tanked scouts are better than ewar scouts...
My Gal Logi has all 4 equipment slots filled, and is CONSTANTLY USING THEM ALL. NOT SHOTGUNNING. I guaran ******* tee you my fit with 3 scanners and a needle contributes more to the team than a douchebag who wants to be a scout in a Logi suit.
Dust servers will be a ghost town on 09/09/14
Destiny kicks ass... Like Halo knocked up Mass Effect and gave birth
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OP FOTM
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
248
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Posted - 2014.07.31 16:23:00 -
[79] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:No, I don't mean homogenizing Logsitcs skills, I mean each one has a bonus to every equipment. There are two parts to all EQ bonuses. The Gal has Precision and Duration. MN, CA, and AM should all get precision but only GA gets Duration.
AM has number of uses and speed. so give all logistics increase usage. same for the other two. It means that Logistics are the choice for using support Equipment.
Yeah and give them all better nanite supply as well. Good suggestion. Make a thread about it, that'll be more useful than making a cameo in my thread.
Dust servers will be a ghost town on 09/09/14
Destiny kicks ass... Like Halo knocked up Mass Effect and gave birth
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Mejt0
Made in Poland...
E-R-A
241
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Posted - 2014.08.01 02:11:00 -
[80] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Cass Caul wrote:The counter for stealth is called visual awareness. visual awareness doesnt work if you cant actually see the person, doesnt work if they are behind either cos you know, no eyes in the back of the head and all.
So what you should get notification : Someones behind you! Turn around dumbass! ?
Removing passive scan removes cal (amar post charlie) job. They dont do anything else.
What role are u playing? Because 2damps +cloak on a scout and youre to scans.
If youre medium/heavy then everyone sees you on thier radar.
So what you want to remove shared scans because you are scrub that eqiups 2plates rather than 2damps?
PS. I see that most of you dont know what flanking is.
Its not only on being invisible on radar etc.
If they see you and youre flanking them, then they split. They split thier forces and main group can attack more agressive.
-~-~-Caldari Loyalist-~-~-
Markiplier fan.
Hollywood Undead ,rocks.
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