DUST Search - Shared Tacnet needs to GO, CCP

One Eyed King wrote:

Vulpes Dolosus wrote:

One Eyed King wrote:

Vulpes Dolosus wrote:

YEAH F*CK TEAMWORK!!!

HOW DARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER!?

That is not working together, that is a broken mechanic.

Heavies are supposed to have a weakness of being blind. Add a fully decked Cal scout and suddenly a group of 5 heavies can see everything but fully dampened Gal scouts coming at them.

That is just broken.

If you want shared scans, have people running active scanners that have a time duration, cool down, and limited field of scanning.

Using one suits strength to cover another's weakness isn't working together?

In Charlie, it will be very easy for almost every scout suit to dodge even Amarr passives. Boom, a counter. (Only exception a the STD Cal)

Just because you're scanned doesn't mean they automatically win. Counter with more teamwork.

And it still only applies to the squad, so 5 other people total.

I disagree with CCP's claim that active scanners should be more powerful than passives. Sure they have a limited angle and a cooldown, but it's still just one module slot. A dedicated scan scout fills at least half (3-4 or more of its 6 at proto) of its slots to be effective, sacrificing virtually all of its combat effectiveness to do so.

Without shared passives, scan scouts are devalued severely and teamwork as a whole takes a hit.

I don't get extra armor because of a heavy adding armor mods.

I don't get extra damage to weapons because a squad mate has damage mods equiped.

It is insane to think that a heavy or 5 with next to no precision reduction can simply add a cal scout and get all the benefits of the mods he has equipped.

It. Is. Stupid.

Wanna see your enemies? Go gal logi with a focused scanner or equip precision on your own scout.

From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men

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OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 180	Posted - 2014.07.27 07:13:00 - [1] - Quote Copy pasting the precision bonus to the Amarr without getting rid of shared passive scans is NOT GOING TO FIX ANYTHING. Do you think Nyain San cares if one or two of their squad members has to run 3 or 4 range amps with little to no HP? THEY CAN AFFORD IT. So guys, bascially Amarr is even worse than the Caldari, because it can get an even longer range than they used to get. This is CCP's "solution." CCP, I thought I was going to start liking you again. I really did. Then you announced this event.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 147	Posted - 2014.07.27 15:04:00 - [2] - Quote i agree with getting rid of shared passive scans but then active scanners will need a buff.. and to share the info with the whole team aswell as give WP for ANYONE(not just squad) on the team killing a "Tagged" hostile maybe change passive to squad only or just self.. self would be the best idea only IF the active scanners get BOOFed Minmatar Logibro in training. Rusty needles anyone? No Mic and no time for "Squeekers" Nerf scout cloak+shotgun
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3730	Posted - 2014.07.27 15:24:00 - [3] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: i agree with getting rid of shared passive scans but then active scanners will need a buff.. and to share the info with the whole team aswell as give WP for ANYONE(not just squad) on the team killing a "Tagged" hostile maybe change passive to squad only or just self.. self would be the best idea only IF the active scanners get BOOFed Problem is a single gal. logi with flux scanners could scan the whole map (200m range) for the whole team. Sure it would require to fill 4 slots with active scanners but the advantage for the team would be undeniable. New shield module!
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2944	Posted - 2014.07.27 16:00:00 - [4] - Quote This is a known issue. Rattati has looked into it. It looks to be a larger technical issue than thought. If they are able to fix it, they will. It is just not happening at the moment, if it is possible at all given constraints. This is how a minja feels
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1770	Posted - 2014.07.27 20:09:00 - [5] - Quote YEAH F*CK TEAMWORK!!! HOW DARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER!?
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2947	Posted - 2014.07.27 20:14:00 - [6] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: YEAH F*CK TEAMWORK!!! HOW DARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER!? That is not working together, that is a broken mechanic. Heavies are supposed to have a weakness of being blind. Add a fully decked Cal scout and suddenly a group of 5 heavies can see everything but fully dampened Gal scouts coming at them. That is just broken. If you want shared scans, have people running active scanners that have a time duration, cool down, and limited field of scanning. This is how a minja feels
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 403	Posted - 2014.07.27 20:14:00 - [7] - Quote I personally think shared passives isn't such a bad thing. You're a scout, but you have no mic. How are you going to tell your teammates. Versus, you have passive scans so they can tell, no words needed. Why is shared so bad? From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1770	Posted - 2014.07.27 20:47:00 - [8] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: YEAH F*CK TEAMWORK!!! HOW DARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER!? That is not working together, that is a broken mechanic. Heavies are supposed to have a weakness of being blind. Add a fully decked Cal scout and suddenly a group of 5 heavies can see everything but fully dampened Gal scouts coming at them. That is just broken. If you want shared scans, have people running active scanners that have a time duration, cool down, and limited field of scanning. Using one suits strength to cover another's weakness isn't working together? In Charlie, it will be very easy for almost every scout suit to dodge even Amarr passives. Boom, a counter. (Only exception a the STD Cal) Just because you're scanned doesn't mean they automatically win. Counter with more teamwork. And it still only applies to the squad, so 5 other people total. I disagree with CCP's claim that active scanners should be more powerful than passives. Sure they have a limited angle and a cooldown, but it's still just one module slot. A dedicated scan scout fills at least half (3-4 or more of its 6 at proto) of its slots to be effective, sacrificing virtually all of its combat effectiveness to do so. Without shared passives, scan scouts are devalued severely and teamwork as a whole takes a hit.
JP Acuna Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 222	Posted - 2014.07.27 21:06:00 - [9] - Quote Problem is, all scanning modules would only be good for solo play. There's no way you can effectively inform your squad on comms where the enemy is, and absolutely no way to do so without comms.
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1992	Posted - 2014.07.28 00:04:00 - [10] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Problem is, all scanning modules would only be good for solo play. There's no way you can effectively inform your squad on comms where the enemy is, and absolutely no way to do so without comms. There are three ways to deal with the results on non-shared passive scans. 1. Use an active scanner the highlight them for your squad. Active scans will still be shared with your squad. 2. Use comms to inform your squad. 3. Go hunting for yourself. The current iteration of shared passive scans has no downsides in squad play, and no counter outside of a single viable suit/fit. As an overhaul of the way scanning works (introducing fall off/partial results/etc) is off the cards, this is the best available solution. Knowledge is power

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3324	Posted - 2014.07.28 00:29:00 - [11] - Quote Brokerib wrote: As an overhaul of the way scanning works (introducing fall off/partial results/etc) is off the cards, this is the best available solution. Rattati indicated that it may not be possible. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1499	Posted - 2014.07.28 00:43:00 - [12] - Quote Requires a client side update. Won't happen. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2953	Posted - 2014.07.28 02:47:00 - [13] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: YEAH F*CK TEAMWORK!!! HOW DARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER!? That is not working together, that is a broken mechanic. Heavies are supposed to have a weakness of being blind. Add a fully decked Cal scout and suddenly a group of 5 heavies can see everything but fully dampened Gal scouts coming at them. That is just broken. If you want shared scans, have people running active scanners that have a time duration, cool down, and limited field of scanning. Using one suits strength to cover another's weakness isn't working together? In Charlie, it will be very easy for almost every scout suit to dodge even Amarr passives. Boom, a counter. (Only exception a the STD Cal) Just because you're scanned doesn't mean they automatically win. Counter with more teamwork. And it still only applies to the squad, so 5 other people total. I disagree with CCP's claim that active scanners should be more powerful than passives. Sure they have a limited angle and a cooldown, but it's still just one module slot. A dedicated scan scout fills at least half (3-4 or more of its 6 at proto) of its slots to be effective, sacrificing virtually all of its combat effectiveness to do so. Without shared passives, scan scouts are devalued severely and teamwork as a whole takes a hit. I don't get extra armor because of a heavy adding armor mods. I don't get extra damage to weapons because a squad mate has damage mods equiped. It is insane to think that a heavy or 5 with next to no precision reduction can simply add a cal scout and get all the benefits of the mods he has equipped. It. Is. Stupid. Wanna see your enemies? Go gal logi with a focused scanner or equip precision on your own scout. This is how a minja feels
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1994	Posted - 2014.07.28 02:47:00 - [14] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Brokerib wrote: As an overhaul of the way scanning works (introducing fall off/partial results/etc) is off the cards, this is the best available solution. Rattati indicated that it may not be possible. I thought he said it was more technically complex then originally expected, but was still being investigated for Delta or beyond? Knowledge is power
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 405	Posted - 2014.07.28 04:00:00 - [15] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: YEAH F*CK TEAMWORK!!! HOW DARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER!? That is not working together, that is a broken mechanic. Heavies are supposed to have a weakness of being blind. Add a fully decked Cal scout and suddenly a group of 5 heavies can see everything but fully dampened Gal scouts coming at them. That is just broken. If you want shared scans, have people running active scanners that have a time duration, cool down, and limited field of scanning. Using one suits strength to cover another's weakness isn't working together? In Charlie, it will be very easy for almost every scout suit to dodge even Amarr passives. Boom, a counter. (Only exception a the STD Cal) Just because you're scanned doesn't mean they automatically win. Counter with more teamwork. And it still only applies to the squad, so 5 other people total. I disagree with CCP's claim that active scanners should be more powerful than passives. Sure they have a limited angle and a cooldown, but it's still just one module slot. A dedicated scan scout fills at least half (3-4 or more of its 6 at proto) of its slots to be effective, sacrificing virtually all of its combat effectiveness to do so. Without shared passives, scan scouts are devalued severely and teamwork as a whole takes a hit. I don't get extra armor because of a heavy adding armor mods. I don't get extra damage to weapons because a squad mate has damage mods equiped. It is insane to think that a heavy or 5 with next to no precision reduction can simply add a cal scout and get all the benefits of the mods he has equipped. It. Is. Stupid. Wanna see your enemies? Go gal logi with a focused scanner or equip precision on your own scout. And what of scouts with no mics? You going to force them to get one? From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2955	Posted - 2014.07.28 04:36:00 - [16] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: And what of scouts with no mics? You going to force them to get one? I don't have the ability to use a mic. I have never had problems. I can still use my ears for those giving orders or relaying info. I can still be relevant. I can also use active scanners if I want. There is more to Dust than the Tacnet. This is how a minja feels
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3325	Posted - 2014.07.28 05:59:00 - [17] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Brokerib wrote: As an overhaul of the way scanning works (introducing fall off/partial results/etc) is off the cards, this is the best available solution. Rattati indicated that it may not be possible. I thought he said it was more technically complex then originally expected, but was still being investigated for Delta or beyond? Yes, you are absolutely correct. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 789	Posted - 2014.07.28 06:33:00 - [18] - Quote Yeah remove it. It's dumb. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11348	Posted - 2014.07.28 09:40:00 - [19] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Problem is, all scanning modules would only be good for solo play. There's no way you can effectively inform your squad on comms where the enemy is, and absolutely no way to do so without comms. Oh, you mean like you can't share dampening? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 231	Posted - 2014.07.28 13:23:00 - [20] - Quote Its complex and hard to fix. Scanning is scout job. And thats thier squad job. Btw. Amarr will be terrible at scaning. Slow, small range, and low hp if he wants to eqiup them. Every scout will need 2damp, or 2damps + cloak to avoid them. And amarr with 4amps have smaller/eqiual range as cal now. -~-~-Caldari Loyalist-~-~- Markiplier fan. Hollywood Undead ,rocks.

Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3160	Posted - 2014.07.28 14:21:00 - [21] - Quote What's the point in having a scout designed for passive scanning if he can't share his scan data? Sharing scan data makes people run more varied squads. It actually promotes team play and using suits more than just for killing people. Really all the needs to happen in order to facilitate this change is Range Exntenders and Prescision Enhancers swap places. Either that or the proposed skills for Amarr and Caldari need to be swaped around. That part is upto the devs. But why get rid of sharing scan data? All it does is promote more Scouts to play slayer based roles, since their main function EWAR, doesn't benifit the squad. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 249	Posted - 2014.07.28 15:18:00 - [22] - Quote I honestly dont see the problem with shared tacnet and passive scans, but then again I have been playing since EVERY THIS was on tacnet ALWAYS. I am guessing that all the complaints are coming from some version of this build: Gallente scout--- Dampeners--- Shotgun yes I get it you want to spend the entire match flanking and 2 shotting everyone with little to no risk of getting dead. Crying nerf to your hard counter makes sense, hard to go 40-0 when one squad member on the other team has 300 eHP. There is really not much sympathy coming from me when a gallente logi will do the same thing with 4 scanners in his equipment slots more effectively in Charlie with a much higher eHP. Yes active scanners need to be activated big deal you also get the annoying "you have been scanned" on your screen the entire match.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1708	Posted - 2014.07.28 15:58:00 - [23] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: I personally think shared passives isn't such a bad thing. You're a scout, but you have no mic. How are you going to tell your teammates. Versus, you have passive scans so they can tell, no words needed. Why is shared so bad? In most non-competitive settings, shared passives are perfectly fine. In a PC, however, where HMG heavies are the most dominant and competitive force, their one weakness can be completely eliminated by a super strong scanner scout. If you want shared scans, use an active scanner. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand Give the Minja active dampening!
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2964	Posted - 2014.07.28 16:56:00 - [24] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: I honestly dont see the problem with shared tacnet and passive scans, but then again I have been playing since EVERY THIS was on tacnet ALWAYS. I am guessing that all the complaints are coming from some version of this build: Gallente scout--- Dampeners--- Shotgun yes I get it you want to spend the entire match flanking and 2 shotting everyone with little to no risk of getting dead. Crying nerf to your hard counter makes sense, hard to go 40-0 when one squad member on the other team has 300 eHP. There is really not much sympathy coming from me when a gallente logi will do the same thing with 4 scanners in his equipment slots more effectively in Charlie with a much higher eHP. Yes active scanners need to be activated big deal you also get the annoying "you have been scanned" on your screen the entire match. A gal scout with 4 damps has always been able to beat all scans. So shared passive is not only ineffective against them, but their ability to be the only scout that can beat them makes it a significant advantage. That is the reason you only see gal and cal scouts out there right now. Because Cal can broadcast all but gal scouts positions to everyone in their squad, and because gal scout is the only counter to always on, 360 shared passives. Hence the reason the changes in Charlie needed to be what they are, so that Amarr and Minmatar scouts can also have a role, and so that shared passives are less of an issue as they will no longer involve low precision + significant range. This is how a minja feels
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4062	Posted - 2014.07.28 18:06:00 - [25] - Quote Translation- I want to go 52-0 in all matches with my Gallente Scout while packing on 500-700 EHP and not having to worry about dampening up. Level 4 Forum Warrior Currently on a quest to get all suits to ADV (8 remaining) PSN: wbrom42
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3329	Posted - 2014.07.28 18:41:00 - [26] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Translation- I want to go 52-0 in all matches with my Gallente Scout while packing on 500-700 EHP and not having to worry about dampening up. Hyperbole? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4062	Posted - 2014.07.28 19:11:00 - [27] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Translation- I want to go 52-0 in all matches with my Gallente Scout while packing on 500-700 EHP and not having to worry about dampening up. Hyperbole? Always Level 4 Forum Warrior Currently on a quest to get all suits to ADV (8 remaining) PSN: wbrom42
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 789	Posted - 2014.07.28 20:01:00 - [28] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Translation- I want to go 52-0 in all matches with my Gallente Scout while packing on 500-700 EHP and not having to worry about dampening up. Translation - I don't think it's fair when heavies are able to hunt me down as if they were a cal scout. Not everyone in this game is a scout and wants these changes so they can pack armor on. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4063	Posted - 2014.07.28 20:17:00 - [29] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Translation- I want to go 52-0 in all matches with my Gallente Scout while packing on 500-700 EHP and not having to worry about dampening up. Translation - I don't think it's fair when heavies are able to hunt me down as if they were a cal scout. Not everyone in this game is a scout and wants these changes so they can pack armor on. I hear you, it's just hard to imagine the game without it now. Perhaps it could work, but to me it's too much of a drastic change at this point. Level 4 Forum Warrior Currently on a quest to get all suits to ADV (8 remaining) PSN: wbrom42
Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1502	Posted - 2014.07.28 20:25:00 - [30] - Quote Tie active scans to suit precision, and you have a deal. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.



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