Many would argue that this makes Logi's too similar to one another and do little to change the current imbalance in competitive play, where the Minmatar Logistics is largely considered to be the only one worth using. Adding additional and identical secondary bonuses to all the suits will likely not encourage the use of the other suits.

How would you personally go about making the other suits more appealing without nerfing the effectiveness of the Minmatar Logistics?

Just for clarity, my Amarr Logi would have a total 15% bonus to those things?

I think that's kinda cool, but offhand I don't recall whether or not the Minmatar bonus (especially) is 10% per level; this might infringe a bit too much.

Just for the sake of argument with easy maths, let's say you get 2 people to make fittings with a suit with 300 CPU.

Player 1: I am a proper logi, and have used 200 for modules/weapons and 100 for equipment.

Player 2: Umad bro? I only roll killer bee style, get rid of that nerd equipment and gimme all 300 for modules and weapons.

Now, you apply the new equipment bonus but drop the available CPU to 275 and try to make the same fits:

Player 1: No problem my good man, my equipment now only costs me 75 CPU so I still have 200 for modules/weapon. See you on the field of battle!

Player 2: wtf? With 25 less CPU I can only run 2 complex damage mods! I want a respec b/c you nerfed my suit after listening to all the crybabies on the forums! U suck CCP!

There are so many threads floating around with so many replies I felt like I wanted to put this proposal on itGÇÖs own so I could get feedback (and discussion!) on it.

Problem: Medium frames suck because Scouts can do their job just as well in addition to being scouts.

Solution: Moar bonuses. IGÇÖll stick to logistics bonuses because thatGÇÖs what I know best. (For assaults the Amarr bonus is obviously the gold standard so that should be the model for the other races.)

Currently the logistics equipment bonuses are as follows:

All: 5% fitting reduction to equipment

Racial bonuses:
- Caldari: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level.
- Gallente: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
- Minmatar: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level.
- Amarr: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max spawn count per level.

No need to do anything with the fitting bonus for now. For equipment, I propose the following:

Primary racial bonuses: No change.

Secondary racial bonuses (new GÇô all per level):
- 3% to nanites and 1.5% to supply rate
- 3% to scanner duration. 1.5% to precision
- 3% to rep tool range, 1.5% to repair amount
- 3% to uplink spawn time, andGǪ 0.4 max spawn count? (that oneGÇÖs tricky!)


Naturally this would not stack with the primary bonus, so the min logi would not be getting itGÇÖs 10% plus another 3%. It would just get the 10%, and look like this:

Primary bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level

Secondary bonuses:
- 3% to nanites and 1.5% to supply rate
- 3% to scanner duration. 1.5% to precision
- 3% to uplink spawn time, and 0.4 max spawn count




This now gives logiGÇÖs a definite advantage over scouts when it comes to support roles, but does not really infringe on the other logi suits because the bonus is so much smaller. Rep tool on a Min logi will still be amazing, and much better than it would be on a Gal logi. But, it will be better on a Gal logi than it will on a Gal scout.

Thoughts?

+1/2

I would make the secondaries 1/2 the effectiveness of the main.
5% rep range 2.5% amount,for example.

Logis should have 0 rivals in support but other logis.

I definitely agree with that concept, but I proposed 1/3 in order to allay concerns that the logi suits will lose their individuality if we equalize the bonuses too much.

Many would argue that this makes Logi's too similar to one another and do little to change the current imbalance in competitive play, where the Minmatar Logistics is largely considered to be the only one worth using.

What we need to do (and what I'm trying to do here) is to separate medium frames, as a group, from the real enemy, scouts!

Scouts infringing upon the Logi's support role?

I've yet to witness this in game, nor has the topic come up with any seriousness in the Barbershop or other scoutly channels. I try to stay informed on what Scouts are up to, and I've heard nothing of the Scout becoming a legitimate -- much less superior -- alternative to Logistics.

If this is in fact an issue, I'd like to better understand it. This is the very best "Scout Logi" I could come up with:
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/1192/7950

^ Is it a solid example of Scout which can out-Logi a Logi?

If not, can you provide me with one that is?
If so, would you please explain how and why?

---

Edit: I am a Scout, but I'd like to assure you that I'm not trolling you guys or attempting to detract from your goals. Should my sincerity be questioned, I'm confident that Cross Atu will vouch for me. Scouts displacing Logistics in the role of support would absolutely represent a problem; if that problem exists, I'd like to help you solve it.

@ Cross Atu

I'm wondering if its possible for us to know usage rates for Rep Tools on Scout Frames ...
If so, is it trending upward or downward, and is its occurrence commonplace or anomaly?

Scouts generally run nothing but scouts.

It can be seen in the barber shop that you guys should not be taken seriously for anything to do with balance as its always balance vs scouts, not balance in general.

Now go back back to the neckbeard shop.

Thank you.

Speaking of, we just wrapped up a detailed conversation with Cross about Logi EWAR loadouts. EWAR is more-or-less purely math, and where math is concerned there's little room for bias or neckbeardery. Even the simpleminded can see when one number is larger than the next; here, have a look.

Speaking of, we just wrapped up a detailed conversation with Cross about Logi EWAR loadouts. EWAR is more-or-less purely math, and where math is concerned there's little room for bias or neckbeardery. Even the simpleminded can see when one number is larger than the next; here, have a look.


Precisely my point. John expressed concern that Scouts are out-logi'ing the Logi. I haven't seen it, but that doesn't mean that he's wrong. Shouldn't we investigate his claim?

Its impossible for a scout to out logi a logi ...

Thank you for that tidbit. This was my concern. Correct me if I'm wrong:

It is appropriate and necessary to buff the Logi, but not the grounds that they're being out-logi'd by Scouts. They should be buffed on other grounds, not identified in the original post of this thread.